Author Topic: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)  (Read 62998 times)

Offline ryder

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2010, 18:14 »
If the affected models are exactly the same specs as the original ie. manufacturered by Plinius and not modified by external parties, personally I don't see any big issues UNLESS the buyer is buying the units brand new. Plinius amps are often very reliable and if buying used, I doubt there would be any major problems unless the amps are abused by the user. I have owned a Plinius SA-100Mk3. Great sounding unit and zero reliability issues throughout the 3 years ownership. System mismatch forces the sale of the Plinius and the buyer of my SA-100Mk3 was loving it every minute. Plinius amps are in great demand in the States and have always been placed closed to the Mac in terms of reliability and performance.

After-sales service of the affected units may be a problem but I reckon this can be addressed by some reliable technicians other than the local dealer. The local dealers may send some of the faulty equipment to other local technicians in most cases. Resale value may be affected but doubt it would be significant. 

Offline DJQ

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2010, 18:48 »
The thing is buy with a peace of mind knowing you get full support or getting a bang for buck deal with no support. Good service goes a long way and it is not without you paying a slightly more premium on the product. It's everyones own choices.
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Offline Luv4nature

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2010, 19:04 »
Product responsibility and dealership management are two different things altogether, from a business management standpoint.

I'll be terrified now if I were to own a Plinius product, or were a Plinius authorized dealer... for what you know if next moment a relationship turns sour, overnight all the plinius goods becomes "nobody's child"

Plinius have mismanaged this incident altogether IMO. If any of the major consumer brand manufacturer were to adopt such policy, they'll easily get themselves into serious litigation troubles.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 19:19 by Luv4nature »

Offline Heckler

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2010, 21:24 »
Should be something wrong else not Plinius would not have blacklisted them de.. must be some proved unauthorized modifications de lah

Just curious...unless there are proof that the units have been illegally modified, why Plinius factory want to void all responsibilities, even if they are being sold by parallel importer?

Offline clitang

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2010, 21:36 »


do yu have prove as you mentioned "Should be something wrong else not Plinius would not have blacklisted them de.. must be some proved unauthorized modifications de lah"
I think those equipment are totally ok. Just that I do not have prove.

If something wrong with the equipment, it should have stated in Plinius web site.

I think in this case it is more like there are some problem between Plinius and their dealers. Then all those stocks have dump into market. Then parallel importers sell it on the web with huge discount. Thus it annoy the local dealers, and they make a big big compliant to Plinius. And this is the way that Plinius handle it.

WTF


« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 21:43 by clitang »

Offline Heckler

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2010, 21:49 »
u think they will elaborate more?as long as the product is fishy..no warranty liao..this already been out in the website..so no point to argue here..

Aiyah, btw as long as you do not buy those blacklisted product then ok liao..

If something wrong with the equipment, it should have stated in Plinius web site.

I think in this case it is more like there are some problem between Plinius and their dealers. Then all those stocks have dump into market. Then parallel importers sell it on the web with huge discount. Thus it annoy the local dealers, and they make a big big compliant to Plinius. And this is the way that Plinius handle it.

Offline Quest

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2010, 01:23 »
Heckler raises a good point.. i dun think plinius can certify if each unit is tampered with without an inspection, just that there are 'fishy' circumstances about it. the problem is some people have already bought the units.

the thing i can see from all this is plinius is causing confusion by not posting the real reason for the blacklisted units. perhaps i am a little more trusting at this point, but i would think it would take quite an extreme case for this to warrant this type of reaction from plinius.. just wish they'd be a little clearer.

there are some speculation from a thread on AudioENZ a month ago on this for those interested to view.. from ideas of distibutor going bust or not paying for the units, to distributor being cancelled because of product tampering, and some discussion on consumer rights: http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=10610

Offline abc

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2010, 01:35 »
What if the company so call authorize Plinius dealer goes down under and declare out of business and start clearing their stock to recover their losses. Will they actually blacklist them?

Offline hotbird

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2010, 08:09 »
What if the company so call authorize Plinius dealer goes down under and declare out of business and start clearing their stock to recover their losses. Will they actually blacklist them?

The previous company that sold Plinius at the basement of Adelphi closed shop quite long ago, and they were just a small little company and didn't move much Plinius gear. unlike the quantity of stock being black listed by Plinius. So I doubt these stock came from any shop that liquidated at all. There is this company in Singapore that like to parallel import from/export to giant grey markets like China/HK/Vietnam etc where the audiophile market is so happening that little niche brands like Plinius can probably be ordered in such quantities, and with economy of scale also ordered at lower prices.  Probably some Plinius sales thought they hit it big when they got such big order, but when such stock start surfacing in Audiogon , they probably found out about the grey market network dealings of their order, and started to blacklist it.
This is my theory.... 
And why should Plinius do this to protect their other international dealers....best answer came from AudioEnz's kiwi_12820001's post whom I quote below

Quote
I disagree.

Being "customer focused" is text book great - but ignores the obvious fact that some customers are of greater value than other customers and marketing decisions need to made around obtaining and maintaining customers of the greatest value.

Who is the customer in this instance?

He appears to be someone who is willing to buy new or near new Plinius product from an allegedly unauthorised HiFi dealer which is advertised with photos which show defaced or concealed product serial numbers and offered at prices which are 50% or more below usual.

As a manufacturer you surely want (and be seen to be wanting) to discourage this sort of purchase. Why? Because you want to maintain real (and valuable) Plinius customers who have bought their new product through authorised channels and have paid usual market prices for it.

Plinius's brand would be hurt more by "sucking it up" because this would serve to disenfranchise and disenchant existing customers of these products. Further, lack of strong reaction by the manufacturer may encourage others to parallel import which would wind up seriously damaging and demotivating the existing authorised channel structure.
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Offline hotbird

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2010, 08:17 »
Totally agreed on the above points.
 to oversea customers which not under their territory.  I have seen local dealer selling their equipment to Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Middle East, China, Australia etc…Then all these equipment should not be supported by any dealer or the manufacturer at all.
I am out, I give up on Plinius. I will not buy any Plinius equipment in the future whenever possible. You have lost one customer.
Thank you for your support for the past 6 years

Make so much fuss, I guess you are the ctang that tried to buy from the the Audiogon reseller  ;D
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fb.pl?user=Tanhm1985

Purchasers of grey market goods know they are buying grey market goods, ie such stuff will  NOT be supported by the original manufacturer  ;)
Ai pi,ai chi,ai tua liap ni  ;D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 08:41 by hotbird »
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Offline clitang

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2010, 08:47 »
Make so much fuss, I guess you are the ctang that tried to buy from the the Audiogon reseller  ;D
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fb.pl?user=Tanhm1985

Purchasers of grey market goods know they are buying grey market goods, ie such stuff will  NOT be supported by the original manufacturer  ;)
Ai pi,ai chi,ai tua liap ni  ;D

Sorry, please do not pose such thing. Please take note, my nick in Audiogon is "clitang" not "ctang". I did not purchased those Plinius equipment from Audiogon. So please do not assume.


Offline hotbird

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2010, 08:51 »
Sorry, please do not pose such thing. Please take note, my nick in Audiogon is "clitang" not "ctang". I did not purchased those Plinius equipment from Audiogon. So please do not assume.

In that case, my apologies, coz that user ctang deleted himself from Audiogon, and I was just adding 1+1=2 , so obviously not the case  ;)
But the fact stands, if you do not purchase from grey market dealers on Audiogon, then there's no need to be frightened of owning a Plinius  ;D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 08:54 by hotbird »
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Offline clitang

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2010, 09:15 »
Taken from another tread - http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=128468#post128468

"From purely marketing perspective this is not customer focused. Decision to not provide support to the end user does not penalise the reseller. I'm not sure I agree with Plinius' approach to the problem. Has this helped or hindered Plinius brand image? My suggestion to Plinius would be to "suck it up", be more selective about your dealers and look after your customers."

I totally agree with the above.

Offline hotbird

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2010, 10:18 »
Taken from another tread - http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=128468#post128468

"From purely marketing perspective this is not customer focused. Decision to not provide support to the end user does not penalise the reseller. I'm not sure I agree with Plinius' approach to the problem. Has this helped or hindered Plinius brand image? My suggestion to Plinius would be to "suck it up", be more selective about your dealers and look after your customers."

I totally agree with the above.

Only those hurt are those that bought from that shop  ;D
And on the contrary I agree with this one too.
http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=128550&postcount=42

Quote
Meh, in this specialised market generally people know what they are buying, who they are buying from, and why they are buying what they are buying at a given price.

Purchasers of grey market goods know they are buying grey market goods. Just like parallel imported goods from earlier this decade. At their own peril people bought all sorts of stuff which was NOT supported by the original manufacturer.

People in this market especially know what they are buying into. Some people want all the perks of a good price and no risk. Well, we've seen the culmination of years of risk taking in all markets come to fruition.

Time to take responsibility for our own actions.

Don't blame the manufacturer, blame your own decision
Also read up wiki on the actions that manufacturers can take for grey marketeers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market
 ;)
Quote
Manufacturers may refuse to supply distributors and retailers (and with commercial products, customers) that trade in grey-market goods. They may also more broadly limit supplies in markets where prices are low. Manufacturers may refuse to honor the warranty of an item purchased from grey-market sources, on the grounds that the higher price on the non-grey market reflects a higher level of service even though the manufacturer does of course control their own prices to distributors
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 10:23 by hotbird »
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Offline Quest

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Re: Plinius owners/potential owners thread (warning included!)
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2010, 10:25 »
But the fact stands, if you do not purchase from grey market dealers on Audiogon, then there's no need to be frightened of owning a Plinius  ;D
I agree. To me the usual responses would be:

1. Existing legitmate owner: (i) possibly relieved that the value of my product is more secure, and resale value is retained. this is not like car and there is no OMV. any parallel goods over time will obviously derail the existing sales structure and 2nd hand prices. (ii) marginally concerned if existing authorised dealer were to be dropped, would i be affected - but i think this is likely not an issue?

2. New purchaser: able to make a more informed decision on purchase of grey market goods pro/cons and decide.