Author Topic: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments  (Read 65831 times)

Offline louco73

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #105 on: February 25, 2013, 08:59 »
Thanks for the advice. Means if running in short length (2m), a $20 and $200 HDMI cable wouldn't make a difference?

Yes. If you are going to be removing and inserting the cable all the time, or putting a load on the cable (think of a cable pulled down by gravity from a projector) then the quality of the connector/connection is far more important than the supposed benefits of the cable itself.

As Pete says, getting into longer lengths does require that you get a good cable, but you still don't need to spend a ridiculous amount.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2013, 22:25 »
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/hdmi-2-0-official-4k-60fps-32-channel-audio/

 
Only just after it leaked out, the folks at HDMI Licensing are announcing HDMI 2.0 officially. Arriving just in time for the wide rollout of a new generation of Ultra HDTVs, it adds a few key capabilities to the connection standard. With a bandwidth capacity of up to 18Gbps, it has enough room to carry 3,840 x 2,160 resolution video at up to 60fps. It also has support for up to 32 audio channels, "dynamic auto lipsync" and additional CEC extensions. The connector itself is unchanged, which is good for backwards compatibility but may disappoint anyone hoping for something sturdier to support all of those suddenly-popular dongles. The cables won't change either, as the group claims current high-speed Category 2 wires can handle the increased bandwidth. Some companies have suggested upgrade paths for their UHDTVs already on the market -- hopefully we'll find out more about those plans this week at IFA 2013.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #107 on: March 21, 2014, 08:15 »
Just a sharing a tip :
Do not hot swop the HDMI cable as it carries current.


HDMI has power in it, like USB, but unlike USB, HDMI plugs can short when hot plugging them, sending current to bits that were never designed for it ... Usually it results in a blown HDMI PCI Board.

That can be expensive to replace.. so if you do so, that may be the reason behind all those spoilt HDMI boards..
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #108 on: March 21, 2014, 22:08 »
Just a sharing a tip :
Do not hot swop the HDMI cable as it carries current.


HDMI has power in it, like USB, but unlike USB, HDMI plugs can short when hot plugging them, sending current to bits that were never designed for it ... Usually it results in a blown HDMI PCI Board.

That can be expensive to replace.. so if you do so, that may be the reason behind all those spoilt HDMI boards..

+1.  Be Careful.


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Offline gs11tan

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2014, 15:54 »
 I think i already got two casualties, one is my sony bluray  player  550 and the other is my Toshiba  Lcd TV .
 Be careful, don't say we didn't warn you.

Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2014, 06:37 »
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1523994/hdmi-2-0-cedia-webinar

Some info on Hdmi 2.0:



HDMI 2.0 CEDIA Webinar
HDMI 2.0 CEDIA Webinar

#1 of 141
16 days ago
Scott Wilkinson
Newsbreaker
Last week, I attended a webinar hosted by CEDIA (Custom Electronics Design and Installation Association) called "HDMI 2.0: A Look Into the Standard." The presenters were Steve Venuti, President of HDMI LLC; Jeff Park, Technical Specification Manager of HDMI, LLC; and Michael Heiss, CE industry consultant and jolly-good CEDIA Fellow as well as chair of the CEDIA Technology Council.
 
I didn't learn much that I don't already know, but it was a good reminder that the version number doesn't mean much other than a list of possible features that manufacturers might or might not implement. That's why HDMI Licensing wants companies to indicate what HDMI features they have included in their products rather than simply touting "HDMI 2.0." That number refers only to the specification that defines what features are supported, not what must be implemented.
 
HDMI 2.0 ups the maximum bandwidth from 10.2 gigabits per second to 18 Gbps, which can be carried on existing high-speed HDMI-certified cables. However, extenders, boosters, and any other electronics in the HDMI signal chain—including Redmere booster chips and HDBaseT—probably can't support that bitrate without a hardware upgrade.
 
The increase in bandwidth is made possible by a new, more efficient signaling method. Even better, the interface uses the previous signaling method for traffic below 10.2 Gbps, then kicks in the new signaling above that, which means it's completely backward compatible with HDMI 1.4 devices.
 
New features supported by HDMI 2.0 include the ability to transmit 4K video at 50 and 60 frames per second (with some limitations, which I'll get to in a moment) and up to 32 channels of audio with a sample rate up to 1536 kHz. Also, new commands have been added to CEC (Consumer Electronics Control, the ability to control multiple connected devices from one remote), and all commands must be implemented rather than being optional as in previous versions—a welcome requirement even if it flies in the face of HDMI's otherwise feature-optional paradigm. Other features include support for the Rec.2020 color space, dual viewing (two programs displayed on the same TV and isolated for each viewer with glasses, much like 3D), multi-stream audio, dynamic auto lip-sync, and the 21:9 aspect ratio.

HDMI 2.0 adds many new features to the HDMI spec. (Graphic from HDMI Licensing, LLC)
 
As I said earlier, HDMI 2.0 can handle 4K/UHD at 50 and 60 frames per second, but there are some limitations—in particular, in the bit depth and level of color subsampling it can convey. For those who are unfamiliar with color subsampling, it's a type of data compression in which some color pixels are discarded from a component-video signal and reconstructed by the display. It's specified as a series of three numbers—the most common schemes are 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0. Because color subsampling applies to component-video signals, the first number refers to the black-and-white pixels, while the second and third numbers refer to the color-difference pixels.
 
With 4:4:4, no color pixels are discarded, while 4:2:2 discards half the color pixels, and 4:2:0 discards 75% of the color pixels, which reduces storage and transmission-bandwidth requirements. However, the less color subsampling that is used, the better the image quality, especially in terms of clean transitions between colors. Amazingly, Blu-ray uses 4:2:0 and still manages to achieve great picture quality.
 
Using 4:2:0 color subsampling, HDMI 2.0 can convey 4K/UHD at 50/60 fps with up to 16 bits of resolution per color. This provides tremendous dynamic range—far more than the current HD system, which uses 8-bit resolution. If the color subsampling is 4:2:2, HDMI 2.0 can accommodate up to 12 bits of resolution for 4K/UHD at 50/60 fps. And at 4:4:4, HDMI 2.0 is limited to 8 bits for 4K/UHD at 50/60 fps. This presents a conundrum for video-content creators and consumers, who want the best possible specs all around.
 

As more data is transmitted, the bandwidth requirements increase. Notice how much bandwidth is required for 8K (4320/60p) at 4:4:4 with 12-bit resolution—far more than HDMI 2.0 can support! (Graphic from HDMI Licensing, LLC)
 
I suspect—hope, actually—that the UHD system will settle on 4:2:2 at 12-bit resolution, but that is far from certain at this point. A resolution greater than 8 bits is critical to support a higher dynamic range without visible banding, which is even more important than the increased number of pixels in my opinion. And less-aggressive color subsampling will yield sharper transitions between colors.
 
HDMI 2.0 also supports the Rec.2020 specification, which includes a much wider color gamut than the current Rec.709. This allows content and displays to accurately reproduce many more colors than today's Blu-rays and HDTVs.
 

Rec.2020 specifies a much larger color gamut than the current standard of Rec.709. (Graphic from HDMI Licensing, LLC)
 
Many people ask me about alternatives to HDMI—in particular, DisplayPort. As you can see in the following table, DisplayPort 1.2 does offer a somewhat higher overall bandwidth than HDMI 2.0, and much higher Ethernet bandwidth. It also transmits some power and USB communications. DisplayPort is common in the world of computers, but HDMI is so entrenched in the consumer-electronics industry that I doubt it will ever be replaced by DisplayPort. HDBaseT also carries power and USB along with HDMI signals, but its overall bandwidth is the same as HDMI 1.4 until its hardware is upgraded.
 

DisplayPort 1.2 offers a bit more overall bandwidth, but HDMI is too entrenched in the CE industry to be supplanted. (Graphic from HDMI Licensing, LLC) 
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Offline bluepill193

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2014, 16:06 »
Guys the existing AVRs on the market, can they handle HDMI 2.0?

Offline eggz

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #112 on: April 16, 2014, 17:34 »
Guys the existing AVRs on the market, can they handle HDMI 2.0?

Nope. I think there's still no mainstream ASIC supporting HDMI 2.0

Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #113 on: April 16, 2014, 18:00 »
Guys the existing AVRs on the market, can they handle HDMI 2.0?
No, that's why the HDMI 2.0 standard is something I would watch rather than jump into... even TV companies claiming their TVs are 2.0 compliant are not sure that the standard won't change..

So if you are not in a hurry, watch this page...
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2014, 09:27 »
Some links to useful info on HDMI 2.0.
Bottom line, don't throw away your current 1.4 cables:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/hdmi-2-0-explained/#!Ms9jx

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx#119
 What’s new in HDMI 2.0?HDMI 2.0 significantly increases bandwidth to 18Gbps and includes the following advanced features:
  • Resolutions up to 4K@50/60 (2160p), which is 4 times the clarity of 1080p/60 video resolution, for the ultimate video experience
  • Up to 32 audio channels for a multi-dimensional immersive audio experience
  • Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity
  • Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
  • Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to multiple users (Up to 4)
  • Support for the wide angle theatrical 21:9 video aspect ratio
  • Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
  • CEC extensions provide more expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point
Keep your current gear and don't panic if most of the above doesn't apply to you..
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:35 by petetherock »
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2014, 09:34 »
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2014, 13:25 »
Yeap... Cables can remain as along as it is HDMI 1.4 but can't say the same for hardware. You need to upgrade your existing video chain like AVR, VP, Bluray player and display output to take advantage of the slew of benefits of HDMI 2.0.

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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2014, 13:34 »
Yeap... Cables can remain as along as it is HDMI 1.4 but can't say the same for hardware. You need to upgrade your existing video chain like AVR, VP, Bluray player and display output to take advantage of the slew of benefits of HDMI 2.0.

Well there lies the main point for members to consider:
Do we Need those features?
Manufacturers need to move boxes, if there is no sales, there's no profit.
If one has an existing amp / BR player bought within the last one or two years, most of the desired features are there.

Unless one is in the market for a new amp, TV etc within the next year, it may be useful to consider HDMI 2.0.

Otherwise unless the buyer is a cutting edge hobbyist, then most of the features don't apply for now.

Some companies are still producing HDMI 1.4 amps or still in the development stage ;)

And with a double HDMI out on the BR player, you can enjoy 4k on a new HDMI 2.0 equipped TV whilst retaining most of your existing gear.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #118 on: June 26, 2014, 00:08 »
As the new 2014 amps come on line, it will be interesting to see which amp truly offers HDMI 2.0. Many offer some form of the specs, but when one delves into the details, you see a few discrepancies.

So it remains to be seen if the 2014 amps need any firmware updates after the initial purchase..
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #119 on: June 28, 2014, 11:02 »
An interesting post from Pioneer:


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1568170-pioneer-sc-lx88-9-2-ch-dolby-amos-hdmi-2-0-a-13.html#post25319465

Quote
Yep 17 pages... Alot of marketing speak in the front, however towards the back there is some good technical information....
 
 Regarding HDCP 2.2, none of our AVR's support it this year. Pioneer (As well as Denon and Yamaha) opted for full bandwidth HDMI 2.0 (18gbps) so that we can support 4:4:4 content as well as high dynamic range and expanded color gamut signals which require more that 10.2gbps. There currently is not a single chip solution that offers both 18gbps and HDCP 2.2. Onkyo decided to go with HDCP 2.2 by using a different brand HDMI repeater, however there HDMI 2.0 solution only offers 10.2gbps of bandwidth (Same has HDMI 1.4).
 
 Another reason was the lack of HDCP 2.2 source hardware. The only piece I am aware of is the Sony 4K server which also does additional checks to make sure it is connected to a Sony TV in order to work.
 
 Chris Walker
 Pioneer Electronics
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