Author Topic: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments  (Read 65772 times)

Offline petetherock

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Just compiling all the HDMI info into a single easily searched thread.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/understanding-difference-hdmi-versions
 
HDMI has changed versions so many times it's been hard to keep up for most people. We've talked about the versions as part of other articles and documents, but it seemed fitting that we'd formulate and maintain a definitive document outlining the changes in a straightforward and easy-to-digest manner for all concerned.
Hopefully this article helps you understand the format differences and aids in your ability to discern what features are important to you as you shop for HDMI-equipped products.

HDMI 1.0


Release date: December 2002

Specs:
  • Single-cable digital audio/video connection with a maximum bitrate of 4.9Gbps.
  • Supports up to 165Mpixels/sec video (1080p at 60Hz or UXGA)
  • 8-channels of 192kHz/24-bit audio (PCM)
Abstract: The original HDMI v1.0 spec was and remains sufficient for most purposes. The reason is that it is a solid backwards-compatible format that can , through PCM audio handle all of the high definition audio formats present today. The key is having a player that can decode these native HD audio formats to uncompressed PCM. DSD and DVD-audio cannot be natively sent over HDMI 1.0. What HDMI 1.0 fails to do, is account for additional bandwidth provided by Deep Color (10- 12 and 16-bit color depths). It also does not support the new xvYCC color space.
Practical Issues and tips: Most CableTV set-top boxes use HDMI 1.0. The maximum output for this spec is 1080p at 60Hz with 8-bit color depth. Regardless of any display of higher version of HDMI you may have, the source will always limit the maximum bit-depth potential. An HDMI 1.0 device can still pull 8 channels of uncompressed PCM audio and as is perfectly fine for most users.

HDMI 1.1


Release date: May 2004

Specs:
  • Added support for DVD Audio
  • Slight mechanical and electrical spec changes
Abstract: HDMI 1.1 simply added the ability for the system to transmit DVD-Audio signal over the cbale form the player to the receiving device. If both devices are rated to v1.1 then a DVD-Audio signal can be sent and received. Please note that by "DVD-Audio" we mean the high resolution audio format, not the audio present on a typical DVD disc.
Practical Issues and tips: HDMI 1.1 is very common and was the first spec to hit the mass market apart from CableTV set-top boxes. Many AV receivers came out with this spec and are fine for handling DVD-Audio and uncompressed PCM audio.

HDMI 1.2

Release date: August 2005
Specs:

  • Added DSD (Direct Stream Digital) support, allowing native transmission of Super Audio CD (SACD) content at up to 8 channels
  • Enabled and acknowledged an HDMI Type A connector for PC-based sources
  • Permitted PC sources to use native RGB color-space with the optional ability to also support the YCbCr color space for consumer electronics applications
  • Mandated that HDMI 1.2 and later displays support low-voltage sources such as those found with PCI Express technology (the current display interface standard for PC video cards)
Abstract: HDMI 1.2 was the biggest jump since the introduction of HDMI. It really brought the PC market into focus and was developed and announced so as to compete better with the emerging VESA DisplayPort standard. For those still clinging to their universal DVD players, HDMI v1.2 finally delivered the promise of a true one-cable solution for all current high-definition audio sources.
Practical Issues and tips: If you want to utilize a fully native universal DVD player without converting the SACD to PCM then HDMI 1.2 is required. We've found that if the player does a good job at conversion, however, v1.2 isn't always that important.
HDMI 1.2a

Release date: December 2005

Specs:
  • Fully specified Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features, command sets, and compliance tests
  • Minor changes to CEC (Consumer Electronic Control) spec
Abstract: This incremental change clarified one of the earlier promises of HDMI, Consumer Electronic Control - a feature that promised "smart" interoperability between components. Unfortunately, this wasn't exactly standardized across the board and, as a result, nearly all manufacturers products only interface within their own brands. Of all things, this is the most disappointing failure of HDMI to-date.
Practical Issues and tips: This is a common format for manufacturers using CEC. There is no practical reason to prefer 1.2a over 1.2. If you don't intend to use the native DSD signal from an SACD player via HDMI, v1.1 is just as good as 1.2 or 1.2a.

HDMI 1.3


Release date: June 2006
Specs:

  • Increased single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps)
  • Optionally supports 10-bit, 12-bit, and 16-bit "Deep Color" per channel (over one billion colors) up from 8-bit
  • Allowed the use of xvYCC color space (previously just sRGB or YCbCr)
  • Incorporated automatic audio "lip" syncing capability
  • Supported output of native Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams for external decoding by AV receivers
  • Made available a new Type C "mini" connector for devices such as camcorders
  • Added gamut Metadata transmission capability
  • Added Reference Cable Equalizer mandate to high frequency displays to recapture degraded copper cable signal
Abstract: To be plain, this update was a complete disaster. First of all, nobody asked for HDMI 1.3, except perhaps the companies behind the new high definition audio formats. Of course TrueHD and DTS-HD, the lossless audio codec formats used on HD DVDs and Blu-ray Discs could be decoded into uncompressed audio by the players. This makes 1.3 irrelevant for audio. What made HDMI 1.3 such as disaster was the increased bandwidth requirements - which hit an already suffering cable market with new requirements for digital signal transmission. Before HDMI 1.3, it was almost impossible to get a non-active copper HDMI cable to pass 1080p at distances greater than 50 feet. After HDMI 1.3, with the addition of Deep Color, that distance shrank to less than 20 feet, causing industry-wide failures on installed cabling systems.

Expensive active solutions started coming on-board to alleviate some of the problems within several months but even today there is a large amount of consumer confusion regarding cable certification and how far a signal will travel over copper cables. The spec also mandated that HDMI 1.3-compliant displays (sinks) which took advantage of high frequency content (Deep Color) must implement built-in cable equalization to help compensate for cable losses through copper cables. Thanks to several companies dedicated to certifying their products for specific distances, this issue is slowly becoming more manageable. The first product on the market with HDMI 1.3 was the PlayStation 3 gaming console.
Practical Issues and tips: HDMI 1.3 is a requirement for Deep Color support or use of the new xvYCC expanded color space. If high definition audio is important to you, you still may not need v1.3 if your player can decode the native HD audio formats into uncompressed PCM audio. This uncompressed audio, up to 8 channels, can be sent over HDMI 1.0.Typically, 24p support coincides with v1.3, however this is nothing more than coincidence of when both format and spec came into popularity.


HDMI 1.3a

Release date: November 2006

Specs:
  • Cable and Sink modifications for Type C
  • Source termination recommendation
  • Removed undershoot and maximum rise/fall time limits.
  • CEC capacitance limits changed
  • RGB video quantization range clarification
  • audio control commands added to CEC and commands for timer control brought back in an altered form
  • Concurrently released compliance test specification included
Abstract: An incremental change, v1.3a is mostly an adjustment for manufacturers utilizing CEC features as well as those integrating the new Type C connector (seen only in smaller form factor products and quite rare to-date).
Practical Issues and tips: There is no consumer-focused practical difference between HDMI v1.3a and v1.3.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 14:57 by petetherock »
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI 1.4
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 11:18 »
http://www.hdmi.org/press/press_release.aspx?prid=93

Quote
Networking - Consolidation of HD video, HD audio and now high speed data with the addition of Ethernet in the HDMI cable.

Audio Return Channel - Elimination of a S/PDIF cable by allowing a TV to send audio streams upstream to an A/V receiver for processing and playback over the HDMI cable

Performance - 4kx2k and 3D are high performance features to be met by increasing the upper limit of the HDMI link

HD in your Car - New connector specification for the auto industry as worlds’ largest auto makers move to digital HD video and audio for 21st century cars with HDMI

Smaller connector - New smaller 19-pin connector

What does it mean for you? We don't know quite yet all the implications. But it sounds like your HDMI cable just got a whole lot more important.


Don't run out and change your amp yet!
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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 11:23 »
Filed under "If it ain't broke..."

I've seen amazing things done with HDMI extenders using Cat6E cables to extend the HDMI signals...

Also believe that some AVRs use RJ45 to transmit multichannel high definition audio..

Instead of coming up with HDMI, they should have stuck with good old RJ45. Looks like there's a lot of bandwidth potential in the old girl. Plus no issues with long runs. And slim/easy to tuck away.



End of Line - Derezzed

Offline landis

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 11:48 »
has anybody tried these from monoprice? for only us$20 wonder if it works as advertised





« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 11:54 by landis »

Offline petetherock

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More info on HDMI
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 11:19 »
Courtesy of this website:


http://hometheatermag.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Home+Theater%3A+HDMI+101&expire=&urlID=34759826&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhometheatermag.com%2Fhookmeup%2Fhdmi_101%2Findex.html&partnerID=3830


Quote
Hook Me Up
HDMI 101
By Joshua Zyber   •   March, 2009
How important is HDMI 1.3 anyway?
The HDMI standard was developed with noble intentions. Most people in the home theater hobby know the hazards of cable clutter. When you have a lot of equipment connected this way and that by separate audio and video cables, you wind up with a tangled mess of wires behind your equipment rack or entertainment center. The problem is compounded by component video (three cables just for picture) and multichannel analog audio (six to eight more cables!). Now factor in a DVR, a couple of DVD players, a Blu-ray player, a video processor, and an A/V receiver all interconnected in one theater room. If you want to add or remove any piece of equipment, you’ll have to squat behind the rack with a flashlight and trying to trace each cable from end to end. Which unit did this blue one come from? If I plug that red cable into here, will I get my picture back, or will my speakers start blaring obnoxious noises?



HDMI was supposed to help with all that. One cable carries both video and audio. Better yet, it carries high-definition video and high- resolution multichannel audio, plus it has all the latest copy-protection protocols that the Hollywood studios demand. In theory, it’s the perfect connection standard for Blu-ray. One HDMI cable out from the Blu-ray player to an A/V receiver, and another HDMI cable out from the receiver to an HDTV should be all it takes to get stunning 1080p picture and lossless audio, all fully encrypted with a minimum of cable clutter. So why are there so many different versions of HDMI? And which ones do you need to be concerned with?



HDMI is an evolving standard that first came to market before all of its features were finalized. The original HDMI version 1.0 established the basic parameters for transmitting high- definition video and uncompressed audio. This was followed by several revisions that added, among other features, support for the DVD-Audio format and some PC applications. For home theater purposes, any HDMI connection type from 1.0 to 1.2a will transmit 1080p picture and multichannel PCM sound equally well. However, at the very least, they will not carry the native digital bitstreams for the advanced Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio lossless audio formats.

The most significant revision to the HDMI spec came with version 1.3, which added support for a few new features that are useful for home theater applications. (Later versions such as 1.3a, 1.3b, and 1.3c add more remote control options and other improvements to their functionality, but they add nothing directly related to additional core audio or video.) In order to benefit from these new features, both ends of the signal chain—as well as any switches, splitters, or other intermediary devices—must be compliant with HDMI 1.3. As a result, HDMI 1.3 has become a marketing tool for many manufacturers to encourage consumers to upgrade their Blu-ray players, A/V receivers, and even all of their cables. You wouldn’t want to be noncompliant with all of the latest features, would you? Of course, this begs the question: Does a Blu-ray viewer really need HDMI 1.3 to get the most out of the format? The answer is a resounding maybe. To delve a little deeper, let’s take a look at what HDMI 1.3 offers that you can’t get in previous versions.



On the video side of things, HDMI 1.3 increases signal bandwidth and allows for the transmission of more color detail. Only HDMI 1.3+ can carry the Deep Color or x.v.YCC formats that promise billions of possible colors, smoother color gradients, and the elimination of banding artifacts. (Naturally, these will only work if both the source and the display are compatible.) That certainly sounds great, but there’s just one problem. The Blu-ray spec doesn’t support either Deep Color or x.v.YCC. Even if a Blu-ray player claims compatibility with these formats (and several do), no Blu-ray Discs are actually encoded with an extended color gamut. Those billions of new colors don’t exist in the Blu-ray source. Any standard HDMI connection can transmit the full video quality that’s available on a Blu-ray Disc.




Does that make HDMI 1.3 irrelevant for video? Not necessarily. At present, a few models of HD camcorders will record content with Deep Color or x.v.YCC. There has also been speculation that some video games may be encoded with one or the other in the future. Although Blu-ray Discs don’t contain the expanded color detail, some Blu-ray player models (such as the recent Pioneer BDP-51FD) may be able to interpolate those extra colors internally, which essentially upconverts the color signal. To take advantage of that, you’ll need HDMI 1.3 and a Deep Color–capable display. On the other hand, some displays may be able to perform that interpolation themselves, negating the need for the Blu-ray player to do it. In the end, there may be some cases where HDMI 1.3 is useful, but it is not strictly necessary for video.


The audio situation is more complicated. Blu-ray Discs can contain movie soundtracks in several possible formats. Regular DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1 work the same as they did on DVD. An S/PDIF cable or any version of HDMI can transmit those lossy codecs without issue. As I mentioned earlier, uncompressed multichannel PCM will also work just fine with any HDMI connection. (S/PDIF doesn’t have enough band- width for that.) Where things get tricky is the usage of the newer audio formats: Dolby Digital Plus, DTS- HD High Resolution Audio, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD Master Audio. Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio are rarely used on Blu-ray these days, but Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are very common. All four of these new audio formats have the same transmission limitations. In order to hear the full high-resolution soundtrack, your Blu-ray player must either decode the format internally or transmit its native bitstream to an A/V receiver or surround processor.

Players that decode the advanced audio codecs convert the audio to PCM. The decoded PCM should result in no loss of quality, and it can be output over any HDMI connection. (Some player models may also offer multichannel analog outputs.) In this case, HDMI 1.3 is not needed. Unfortunately, not all Blu-ray players are built with the ability to decode those high- resolution formats in full quality. Some Blu-ray players can only decode standard DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1. And a number of early players decode Dolby TrueHD but not DTS-HD Master Audio. In either case, you’ll need to transmit the codec’s native bitstream and let your A/V receiver or surround processor do the decoding. This will require HDMI 1.3 on both the Blu-ray player and the receiver or surround processor.



Either decoding to multichannel PCM or passing the native bitstream will give you high-quality lossless sound. The choice between letting the Blu-ray player decode the audio or transmitting the native bitstream will depend on the specifics of your equip- ment. For example, the Sony PlayStation 3 offers no bitstream option for the advanced audio formats, but it will decode them internally to PCM. On the other hand, the Panasonic DMP- BD30 will not decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio itself but can transmit their native bitstreams. Secondary audio from commentaries, Bonus View, and BD-Live content complicates this decision even further, as the only way to seamlessly mix disc and secondary audio is to let the player handle the decoding.

Older A/V receivers and surround processors may include HDMI inputs that can accept multichannel PCM but not the newer formats. And some A/V receivers and processors—even a few current models—have HDMI inputs that will not handle any type of audio at all over HDMI. Their HDMI inputs are strictly video. If yours is one of these, the only way you’ll be able to listen to the new high-resolution audio formats is from the player’s multichannel audio outputs to the multichannel analog inputs on your A/V receiver or surround processor. In either of these situations, the player must be able to perform the decoding. Every system will have its own particular needs.

For both video and audio, HDMI 1.3 is useful in some home theater applications, but it’s not necessarily required. If you buy new equipment today, the presence of HDMI 1.3 will help with future-proofing if nothing else. However, with a bit of care, it’s still possible to obtain the highest-quality video and audio available from Blu-ray even with older versions of HDMI.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI length
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 07:50 »
The thereotical limit for a HDMI cable is 15m before requiring boosting. So avoid long runs above this.

Also consider a large gauge cable for such long runs and make sure it does not dangle its full weight from the connection or in the long run (pardon the pun) it may slip out.
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Offline petetherock

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Where can we buy HDMI cables
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 07:57 »
Overseas:

Via Vpost or the many MOs conducted here, you can consider Monoprice, which is very popular here.

The Blue Jean cable company is another source.

Playasia.com also sells them

Locally:

Hean Lee Radio in Jln Besar Plaza is reasonably priced.

Buy according to the price of your other equipment, the difference is less dramatic than analogue cables but there is a difference.

Another discussion:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1900362

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Offline petetherock

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Offline petetherock

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Does gold-plating matter?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 16:06 »


The reply on what makes a good cable from HDMI themselves:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9596169#post9596169

Quote
All HDMI cables are required to meet the HDMI spec- no exceptions. However, it is difficult to closely monitor every HDMI cable due to the large number of cable manufacturers and products coming out.

Some general guidelines we recommend:
-look for the HDMI logo, and this tends to be used by manufacturers that clearly understand that the logo can only be used for products that have been compliance tested.
-look for a SimplayHD logo, which is a separately run testing service that checks cables to the highest HDMI standard called a Category 2 cable (i.e. 1080p tested).

If we find devices which do not meet the spec and/or cause failures in interoperability, we do our best to take actions to address it, and we welcome feedback from consumers to report on any failures they have seen from specific devices.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 08:47 »
Hmmm... interesting fracas over a cable, but thats hi fi for you, it can be highly emotive...

But many have commented, esp in Smaller displays and in real life modest HT setups, the differents between a fancy cable and a monoprice cable is not much.

So I have stuck with them, get the 22 gauges ones with gold plate, keep the length under 15m and you are fine!
HDMI shootout between expensive and cheapo:

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=52873.0

HDMI switchers:

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=51054.0

HDMI differences:

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=51602.0

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=57465.0


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Offline petetherock

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HDMI locking cable
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 01:47 »
http://www.lockinghdmi.com/

Click on the picture for an animation...

http://www.ottovonmo.com/news.php?cat=news&story=15

Quote
Syracuse, NY April 23, 2008- Alas, the oft heard "HDMI is not a locking connector! ... It is a self-ejecting technology!" Well, no more. What was once the Achilles heel of a desirable workflow is now the secure backbone. Ottovonmo Productions introduced PPC's patented Locking HDMI cable to the production industry at NAB 2008. Able to lock into any HDMI connector, this new locking HDMI cable solves a myriad of problems in the industry.

The struggle for ever better video quality has become easier with each passing NAB show. We are now seeing dramatic opportunities for high quality footage at affordable price tags and manageable file sizes. We're seeing stand-alone, on-camera recorders that are giving us better than HDCAM quality footage, captured with prosumer and consumer hardware.

HDMI especially has opened new doors to the video community for getting higher quality footage, as we are now able to send out an uncompressed 4:2:2 color sampled picture to be recorded to a codec of our choice, just as HD-SDI can, but without the hefty price tag. The one major problem is that there has been no true locking HDMI cables. So what value does HDMI offer to our cameras and recorders if our simple HDMI cable continuously falls out? The answer is "None"; it is worthless. Thus the complaint of many in the production community that HDMI is unprofessional and untrustworthy for professional use. It simply disallows content producers to use this technology confidently.

Adam Wilt, writer and technical reviewer for Pro Video Coalition, had this to say about PPC's new locking HDMI cable: "I was unable to apply sufficient pull ... for fear of damaging the cable or the equipment it was plugged into; it didn't let go!... Yet a simple squeeze on the raised release button let me pull the cable out when I wanted to... Verdict: Great idea, well implemented."
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Offline petetherock

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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 08:39 »
Bringing this up to answer a question on where to buy cables...

There are also many people selling monoprice cables.

I usually grab a few and keep them spare. They have not given me any trouble at all.
Overseas:

Via Vpost or the many MOs conducted here, you can consider Monoprice, which is very popular here.

The Blue Jean cable company is another source.

Playasia.com also sells them

Locally:

Hean Lee Radio in Jln Besar Plaza is reasonably priced.

Buy according to the price of your other equipment, the difference is less dramatic than analogue cables but there is a difference.

Another discussion:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1900362


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My gear:
http://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2019/04/my-setup-42019.html

Offline Fanzhen

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 14:54 »


Any advantages of using this type of hdmi cable?

Offline cstanxpl

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 1.4
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 15:37 »
Yes, when your TV is very near to the back wall, and the HDMI connection must be connected horizontally.

The swivel will come in handy.



Any advantages of using this type of hdmi cable?
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