Author Topic: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments  (Read 65753 times)

Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #165 on: November 09, 2014, 12:26 »
Are you buying your processor yet bro?

Not yet, in no hurry. Washing lp n fine tuning tt these few mths.. hehe
The kk in ceilings have not hit the market, laser projector have not hit the market,no processor in market now has caught my eye,  wife only allow me to tear down ceiling aft cny. So no hurry yet...regretted selling away the krell processor too early.  :(

Anything that caught ur eye?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 12:28 by francishuang »
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #166 on: November 10, 2014, 14:12 »
Are you waiting fir hdcp 2.2?
I am considering the SR 7009... But I want to make sure they can allow ATMOS sound with hdcp 2.2 sources...
Will listen out at the ISSE..
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

My gear:
http://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2019/04/my-setup-42019.html

Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #167 on: November 10, 2014, 14:52 »
Are you waiting fir hdcp 2.2?
I am considering the SR 7009... But I want to make sure they can allow ATMOS sound with hdcp 2.2 sources...
Will listen out at the ISSE..

Sort of. Waiting for post cny period to tear down false ceiling, waiting  for a processor that can do finer adjustment to channel delay as well. I personally think that is very impt for object base atmos.
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #168 on: November 10, 2014, 19:14 »
...waiting  for a processor that can do finer adjustment to channel delay as well. I personally think that is very impt for object base atmos.

Interesting concept you have there...perhaps you can expound on how channel delay can benefit Atmos? I'm interested to know from your perspective.

Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #169 on: November 10, 2014, 19:20 »
Interesting concept you have there...perhaps you can expound on how channel delay can benefit Atmos? I'm interested to know from your perspective.

Can talk abt it if we meet? Very difficult to type so much on phone.
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #170 on: November 10, 2014, 19:27 »
Can talk abt it if we meet? Very difficult to type so much on phone.

Or alternatively may I suggest that when you get back home or perhaps during one of these days during your leisure time and when you have access to a PC or laptop to type with ease, you can share with everyone here for all to benefit...conversation between just the two of us defeats the purpose of a forum where it is a great place to share knowledge, agree?


Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #171 on: November 10, 2014, 19:37 »
Will try to...ages since i last touch a comp to type. Only time i use comp nowadays is to do eq.   :)
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #172 on: November 10, 2014, 19:44 »
Will try to...ages since i last touch a comp to type. Only time i use comp nowadays is to do eq.   :)

Wow...been "ages" since you last "touch" a computer to type? You Sir really intrigue me even further...May I ask what kind of profession are you in that doesn't require you to have access to a PC at this digital age? Hmmm...so can I safely "assume" that the 1,200+ postings you made here mostly using a smart phone to type? If really that's the case, then I really have to salute you on this!!!


Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #173 on: November 10, 2014, 20:52 »
I deal with disposable plastics
yep, i use my phone to access forums
Tats y my post are pretty short
 ;D
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #174 on: November 10, 2014, 21:52 »
Look forward for your explanation on the channel delay. Make or simple and short...i don't suppose it's a lengthy discourse to explain. Take your time to type on your phone.


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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #175 on: November 11, 2014, 23:09 »
Francishuang, still waiting for your response on this channel delay concept...

Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #176 on: November 11, 2014, 23:48 »
Wa...teacher chasing for homework ah?  ;)



A airplane flying across the front of sound stage. Does it only involve the left center right ch? Sub is involve as well.  If they are not properly aling, what happens to the image of the effect? Will the afterburner sound come at the right time?

Doesnt all these cause sound to become more unrealistic n less immersive?


How to make all these ch work together so tat the intended sound will arrive at the time which it should be? With our avr, processor,Aft eq, to further 'catch' the timing, use ch delay. Play with the distance. Sometime it is tat +/- 0.2m away from sweet spot. But sometimes avr processor is limited to .3m or .5m jump.

With object base atmos, or auro. I feel timing becomes even more impt. For atmos, the effect becomes very directional, if the timing of chs are not aling closely enuf, the effect will feel disjointed, unnatural. For auro, its 3 level, if a plane flys from middle of screen to over ur head, imagine the sound tats traveling from ur fronts front height vog rear height channels at same time sub doing the lfe.  I tink timing even more impt for auro to present acurate effect imaging. Natural immersive 不拖泥带水。

Its not just abt adding more channels to create the effects. When the effect is panning left to right up n down, like a person talking while walking to his chair n then he sits down. Will the vocal image comes out from his mouth while hes doing all these? Timing  between ch is the key here

Personally, i do not view the different channels of the ht system as indivdual. I rather view them as if they are like the drivers of a pair of speakers. What happens when the drivers of the speakers are not time aling properly? Muddy image, uncoherant sound, unnatural sound? To me, every ch gota work together, there are already so many different factors at work, room condition,  different speakers power amp cable type cable lengths.they will make the different ch sound different, i feel that using group delay to try aling the channels timing is impt as it can help me create the immersive ht experience i am seeking



 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 00:41 by francishuang »
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #177 on: November 12, 2014, 07:06 »
Wa...teacher chasing for homework ah?  ;)



A airplane flying across the front of sound stage. Does it only involve the left center right ch? Sub is involve as well.  If they are not properly aling, what happens to the image of the effect? Will the afterburner sound come at the right time?

Doesnt all these cause sound to become more unrealistic n less immersive?


How to make all these ch work together so tat the intended sound will arrive at the time which it should be? With our avr, processor,Aft eq, to further 'catch' the timing, use ch delay. Play with the distance. Sometime it is tat +/- 0.2m away from sweet spot. But sometimes avr processor is limited to .3m or .5m jump.

With object base atmos, or auro. I feel timing becomes even more impt. For atmos, the effect becomes very directional, if the timing of chs are not aling closely enuf, the effect will feel disjointed, unnatural. For auro, its 3 level, if a plane flys from middle of screen to over ur head, imagine the sound tats traveling from ur fronts front height vog rear height channels at same time sub doing the lfe.  I tink timing even more impt for auro to present acurate effect imaging. Natural immersive 不拖泥带水。

Its not just abt adding more channels to create the effects. When the effect is panning left to right up n down, like a person talking while walking to his chair n then he sits down. Will the vocal image comes out from his mouth while hes doing all these? Timing  between ch is the key here

Personally, i do not view the different channels of the ht system as indivdual. I rather view them as if they are like the drivers of a pair of speakers. What happens when the drivers of the speakers are not time aling properly? Muddy image, uncoherant sound, unnatural sound? To me, every ch gota work together, there are already so many different factors at work, room condition,  different speakers power amp cable type cable lengths.they will make the different ch sound different, i feel that using group delay to try aling the channels timing is impt as it can help me create the immersive ht experience i am seeking



Thanks for making an effort to type in such a lengthy explanation using just a smart phone...I know its not easy. Kudos to you on this!

The information you provided on the channel delay is not new and in fact forms the basis for literally every single audio calibration algorithm (be it YPAO, Audyssey, AccuEQ etc) that ever existed in a AVR or AV amp to start with. Without getting the frequency and time delay right, w/o a doubt in mind, this will affect the multi-channel sound experience in a detrimental way to say the least - credit to you for elaborating why channel or rather time delay is crucial.

I have a question for you, "Do you use Audyssey for your AVR setup presently?" My next reply will depend on your next reply :)

Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #178 on: November 12, 2014, 07:27 »
Yes, its not new. But with the up coming stuffs, i feel its even more impt now.
No processor now, have not play ht for few mths
Ex processor, no audessy
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Offline desray

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HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #179 on: November 12, 2014, 08:51 »
Yes, its not new. But with the up coming stuffs, i feel its even more impt now.
No processor now, have not play ht for few mths
Ex processor, no audessy

Dont get me wrong here....i agree with you. Burt do u agree with me that it will be a more meaningful discussion if you have past and actual experience with the more recent AVR circa 2012 - 2013... The atmos enabled AVR is still quite new in the market and the adoption rate is rather slow...even i have to admit that i m still exploring... The more "relevant" question that will really pique everyone's interest is whether there is "any" significant difference in the current iteration of audyssey calibration algorithm versus the previous version, assuming still utilizing MultEQ XT32. If there is indeed a difference, what will that be? We know for the fact that some form of DSP processing has been involved to work in tandem with atmos enabled speakers and possibly even ceiling speakers as well...i hope there will be some official word from audyssey on atmos. This will seek to explain some of the doubts and speculation on the time and frequency changes involved during the calibration.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 08:58 by desray »