Author Topic: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments  (Read 65737 times)

Offline jeffong

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #150 on: October 15, 2014, 06:17 »
Wasn't there a rumour the AV8802 and Denon AVR equivalent would have both HDCP2.2 and the high bandwidth?

Unfortunately no, even the HDCP2.2 implementation on the Onkyo is supposedly flawed as that one port that implements it cannot support the full HDMI 2.0 18Gbps transfer rate. This issue is also seen in the latest 4k TV's like the new LG 79 and 84 inch displays. As such it's worth delaying any equipment upgrade until the new 4k BluRay players are launched in Q4 next year.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2014, 08:17 »
Here's some food for thought... Even for the early adopters, how many 4k discs are there and how many people have 4k displays... I guess for bro des having it now is joy already :)
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Offline jeffong

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2014, 10:13 »
Here's some food for thought... Even for the early adopters, how many 4k discs are there and how many people have 4k displays... I guess for bro des having it now is joy already :)

It's not a problem for Des since he changes his gear on an semi-annual basis anyway. LOL!!!
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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2014, 10:18 »
Unfortunately no, even the HDCP2.2 implementation on the Onkyo is supposedly flawed as that one port that implements it cannot support the full HDMI 2.0 18Gbps transfer rate. This issue is also seen in the latest 4k TV's like the new LG 79 and 84 inch displays. As such it's worth delaying any equipment upgrade until the new 4k BluRay players are launched in Q4 next year.

The 8802 IIRC has been delayed IIRC which added to the rumours that it would have the 18Gbps bandwidth of the non HDCP2.2 compliant Denon/Marantz models
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2014, 11:49 »
From what I gathered at AVS, the first few 8802 will not have the full HDCP 2.2, and you have to send it back for an upgrade.
That can have potential issues.
Of course, they can sell the upgraded one as a 8803!
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2014, 17:12 »
We all can agreed on one thing...4K is awesome but it is also a PITA because both HDMI and HDCP implementation are not moving in tandem (hand-in-hand) with each other...that's why the confusion and frustration for early adopter of 4K...Frankly I felt short-changed when I read the developments on HDMI 2.0 and HDCP2.2.

I understand a lot of members here are still very confused as to what the heck is all these HDMI 2.0 and HDCP2.2 is all about...maybe let's break it down in simple hard truth (facts)

#1: HDCP 2.2 will ONLY be present in HDMI 2.0

#2: HDMI 2.0 requires a hardware upgrade on your AV equipment - like Bluray player and AVR but there is NO NEED for you to get a new set of HDMI cable. The present High-Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet should suffice

#3: The current batch of AVR with HDMI 2.0 input/output already have the FULL SUITE of features like the ability to support 18Gbps throughput rate and support for 4K/60 with 4:4:4 at 10 or 12bit amongst other things...The issue here lies with the stupid HDCP2.2 specs not moving in tandem with the HDMI 2.0 production schedule! And if 4K streaming or source like a 4K bluray is going to use HDCP2.2, then we may not be able to get any picture!. Hence we face with half-baked implementation for 4K passthrough and upscaling feature on the AVR which is akin to the heart and brain in a typical Home Theatre setup.

#4: Looking ahead, BDA has just recently announced on the availability of 4K standard bluray which is most likely to utilize HDCP2.2 for its DRM...the existing AV gears we are having now may work provided we forgo HDCP2.2 standards...But proponent like SONY gonna be pissed off... :P

#5: If HDCP2.2 only affects the transmission of an encrypted video signal from the source - i.e. bluray player to the target (say a 4K UHD TV or Projector) and audio is not affected, then the best bet is of course to get another new bluray player (e.g. Oppo BDP-203/205) with dual HDMI 2.0 and full HDCP2.2 compliant to send separate video and audio signals to the 4K HDCP2.2 compliant display and a AVR with HDMI 2.0 connection but w/o HDCP2.2 feature for multichannel processing. Dolby Atmos and probably Auro 3D able to pass through bitstream format with ease even at HDMI 1.4 specs...so audio is not the issue here.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 17:16 by desray »

Offline jeffong

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #156 on: October 16, 2014, 06:08 »
Another little known danger is how HEVC decoding is implemented on the TV side. For example, the current Panny 4K TV"s implemented a version of HEVC decoding that can"t support 4K streams from Netflix (not even with a firmware upgrade). There"s a remote chance they won't be able to decode the new 4K Blurays as well.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #157 on: October 16, 2014, 07:09 »
Yeah... early 4k TV adopter may run the risk of losing out.. i.e. they won't meet the HDCP 2.2 standards and even now, Sony has taken to upgrade their HDMI input by asking buyers to book for service and swop one of their HDMI inputs.

So caveat emptor.

But as I mentioned, if one needs an amp now, it's ok to buy, as most buyers don't even do 7.1, so the current new gen amps are perfectly fine.

And for cutting edge bros like Desray, he would have changed amps before 4k becomes a standard.

From that stand point, I doubt if 4k will become the standard in the near future, even if 4k BR players are on the horizon.

It's all about the availability of software, and that's as common as hen's teeth...
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #158 on: October 16, 2014, 09:00 »
Not really cutting edge. Just like to play with new toys.

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #159 on: October 16, 2014, 12:07 »
Another little known danger is how HEVC decoding is implemented on the TV side. For example, the current Panny 4K TV"s implemented a version of HEVC decoding that can"t support 4K streams from Netflix (not even with a firmware upgrade). There"s a remote chance they won't be able to decode the new 4K Blurays as well.

That's only if you need the Netflix app on the SmartTV no? If you use a computer based NetFlix, it shouldn't be an issue with the version of H.265
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Offline jeffong

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #160 on: October 16, 2014, 13:53 »
That's only if you need the Netflix app on the SmartTV no? If you use a computer based NetFlix, it shouldn't be an issue with the version of H.265

Right now you can only access Netflix's 4k stream using customized apps provided to a few TV manufacturers such as LG and Samsung.  There's no other way to do it using other Netflix apps including your PC.  For Panny TV's, it was mentioned that it was a hardware implementation which resulted in a incompatible HEVC decoding algorithm to the one used by Netflix.

From a Singapore context, you will only be able to watch Netflix 4K using a new Samsung 4K TV and switching the app store to the US one which allows you to download the Netflix app.  No joy for LG TV's since there's no way to switch to the US store.  Of course you will also need a VPN service to masquerade yourself as a US resident.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 13:56 by jeffong »
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #161 on: November 01, 2014, 00:09 »
:(
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/do-i-need-hdcp-22-compliant-receiver-ultra-hdtv

Quote
Q I’m trying to choose between new AV receivers from Sony, Denon, and Yamaha. The Sony is the frontrunner, but I am hesitant to pull the trigger because it’s not HDCP 2.2 compliant. If I connect an HTPC to this AVR, will I have problems in the future playing Ultra HD movies? How about satellite? Will I have the same problem if I eventually upgrade to an Ultra HD-capable satellite receiver?—Sam Shirzadegan
 A The answer to both questions, sadly, is yes. HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) 2.2 is the latest version of an industry-standard copy protection scheme created to prevent the hijacking of digital AV signals carried over an HDMI or DVI connection. Earlier HDCP versions were devised to prevent copying of content on Blu-ray, but this newest version has been developed specifially for Ultra HD TV.
 While most new UHDTVs that came out in 2014 provide HDMI 2.0 connections with HDCP 2.2, and forthcoming sources such 4K Blu-ray and Ultra HD satellite receivers will also be HDCP 2.2-compliant, only a handful of new AV receivers—all of them from Onkyo—have HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2. So what will happen when, a year or two down the road, you’re ready to route an Ultra HD source such as a 4K Blu-ray player, HTPC, or satellite receiver through a non-compliant receiver? The source will attempt to “handshake” with the non-HDCP 2.2 receiver, and when that authentication process fails, you will likely be presented with a blank screen.
 Are there any workarounds to deal with this problem? Kind of. You could always bypass the receiver and make a direct HDMI connection to an Ultra HD display. In this case, audio would typically be transmitted seperately to the receiver over an optical or coaxial digital hookup, and video carried over HDMI. Better yet, since you’re concerned about Ultra-HD compatibility (and not everyone is) you could hold out for more HDCP 2.2-compatible receivers to become available so you’ll have a wider range of choices.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #162 on: November 08, 2014, 18:52 »
http://www.quantumdata.com/news/article84.asp

That means HDCP isn't going to come til next year earliest IMHO...

Quote
Elgin IL - October 28, 2014 - Quantum Data™, a worldwide provider of video test equipment, today announced that the popular 980 HDMI Protocol Analyzer module supports HDMI-HDCP compliance testing for HDMI source and sink devices per HDCP CTS 2.2. (Test for repeaters expected to follow.) Quantum Data's support for HDCP 2.2 compliance testing on the 980 Protocol Analyzer is a significant expansion to the existing support for the protocol, video, audio, and advanced features compliance test sections of the HDMI (and MHL) CTS for both source and sink devices.
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Online francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #163 on: November 08, 2014, 19:13 »
They predicted end 2015 for consumers
Shindo is Music

Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #164 on: November 09, 2014, 08:11 »
They predicted end 2015 for consumers
Are you buying your processor yet bro?
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