Author Topic: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments  (Read 65758 times)

Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #120 on: June 28, 2014, 11:08 »
http://hdguru.com/three-must-have-4k-tv-features/


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   Three Must-Have 4K TV Features March 19th, 2014 · 3 Comments · 3D HDTV, 4K Flat Panel, 4K LED LCD, Blu-ray Players, Connected TVs, HDMI, LED LCD Flat Panels, News, UHDTV  Logos-small height=333
Update 3/22/14
Are you considering buying a 4K Ultra HD Television? Here’s a tip: There are 3 technologies that any UHDTV must incorporate to display forthcoming 4K content. If your new set lacks any of these, you’ll at best be able to view 4K at a lower resolution or frame rate. The worst case scenario? You won’t be able to view it at all. Learn the details after the break.

The three features that are vital for viewing forthcoming 4K content from Netflix, Blu-ray, Satellite/Cable and elsewhere are HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC.
HDMI 2.0 is the latest version of the High-definition Multimedia Interface. Version 2.0 is backward-compatible with all previous HDMI versions. According to the HDMI organization, 2.0 supports up to 60 fps (frames-per-second) content at 3840 x 2160 resolution. On the audio side, it permits up to 32 channels, 1536-kHz sampling and up to simultaneous streams for multiple users. Other features include simultaneous delivery of dual video streams on the same display; support for 21:9 aspect ratio content and displays; dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams; and expanded command and control.
While UHD content shot at 60 fps doesn’t exist yet (a few PC games excepted), that format is expected to be used for future UHD sports content. However, if your set isn’t HDMI 2.0-capable, you will be limited to viewing UHD at a maximum of 30 fps. Content recorded on film, a medium with sufficient resolution to be converted to UHD, will remain at 24 fps, though it’s anticipated that movies shot with Ultra HD cameras will eventually migrate to 60 fps.
HDCP 2.2 (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) is the latest version of the encryption/decryption scheme used by HDMI to prevent copying of audio/video content as it travels from a source through additional devices (an A/V receiver, for example). At present, there is no content containing HDCP 2.2 encryption, though we expect that next-generation 4K Blu-ray discs and players will use it.
While we have yet to get our hands on any HDCP 2.2-equipped gear, we anticipate that some compatibility issues might arise when routing a HDCP 2.2 source like Blu-ray through an HDMI 1.4 or earlier A/V receiver or video switcher.
 
HEVC stands for High Efficiency Video Coding (also known as H.265). HEVC is said to be about twice as efficient as MPEG-4 coding, which in turn means a higher compression ratio for more manageable streaming of native 4K content. Netflix has already announced that it will provide HEVC-compressed 4K programming to subscribers starting this spring. But here’s the catch: UHDTVs that lack HEVC decoding won’t be able to display 4K content using the set’s built-in app, and will instead require an external HEVC-capable media receiver.
3/22/14 Note: An LG spokesperson informed hdguru via email that its 2013 LA9650 and LA9700 series  US models contain HEVC decoding.
 
Danger in the Past
Looking over the UHDTVs that came out in 2013, only Panasonic’s TC-L65WT600 shipped with HDMI 2.0 inputs, while Sony provided an HDMI 2.0 upgrade for its sets either via a new circuit board or an Internet-delivered firmware upgrade. There aren’t any 2013 UHDTVs we’re aware of that can be upgraded internally to support either HDCP 2.2 or HEVC, though Samsung promises such an upgrade via its 2014 OneConnect, an external box that will also feature HDMI 2.0 connections. Pricing and availability for the 2014 OneConnect is expected to be announced later this week at a Samsung press event.
For 2014, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sharp, Toshiba and Vizio are all expected to feature HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and HEVC in their respective UHDTVs. We are still waiting to hear if the lower-tier brands like TCL, Seiki and Hisense will provide these crucial features when their new 4K models are released. We’ll be sure to post an update once we learn more.
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #121 on: June 28, 2014, 11:15 »
I found this interesting info on Sony 4k TV owners, that may be pertinent to all potential 4k TV owners:

http://community.sony.com/t5/4K-Ultra-HD-TV/Upgrade-to-2-0-HDMI-only-if-you/td-p/152453


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I find it very disappointing, that Sony will upgrade your 4K TV with the needed 2.0 HDMI ONLY if you purchase their new Sony FMP-X1 4K Ultra HD Media Player. I just paid thousands of $$$$ dollars for my XBR-65X900A and purchased a Sony BDPS790 3D Blu-ray Player, only to be told by Sony Tech Support I can have my 4K TV upgraded ONLY if I purchase the new FMP-X1. 
 
I am very dissipointed in that response and in Sony's customer relations regarding this issue.
 

This information is correct, The 4K Activation process is not adding HDMI 2.0 but instead adding HDCP 2.2 compatibility which is the Digital Content Protection specification required by the 4K Media Player.  My apologies for the confusion.



So there are HDMI issues and HDCP issues to consider with the new amps / TV / sources...
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #122 on: June 28, 2014, 11:17 »
More.... confusion?


http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=8942393&postcount=2

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This means first generation and second generation 4K QUAD HD displays that lack the HDCP 2.2 copy protection feature will not be able to play native 4K content at 4K quality. Instead the older 4K Quad HD displays will either have a black screen or play the 4K programs at the lower 1080P quality depending on what the content provider decides.
 
 If the 4K content providers are strict and enforce HDCP 2.2 copy protection compliant products, then the first generation 4K QUAD HD displays that use passive glasses are only good for playing 1080P 3-D Blu-ray movies using passive glasses.
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Offline racs

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #123 on: September 05, 2014, 20:37 »
Anyone using Tartan hdmi cable? Price is reasonable I tink. Looking for 25ft hdmi. Is this ok?
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm

Looks like 24 AWG is recommended for longer runs..
Anyone got from blue jeans cable?

FAQ for TArtan
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/tartan-hdmi-cables.htm#faq
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 20:38 by racs »

Offline francis wu

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HDMI 2.0
« Reply #124 on: September 11, 2014, 14:31 »
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 20:03 by francis wu »

Offline desray

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Re: HDMI 2.0
« Reply #125 on: September 11, 2014, 19:39 »
Bro, I would rather you post the direct link (regardless the original language) than to post a "half-baked" translation that does not make any bit of sense. ???

Offline Audio

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2014, 09:46 »
I actually bought the 3 pieces of the Palic HDMI 2.0 4K cables at the HK show.  The copper ones, not the silver wires ones which cost signicantly higher.  The good thing about them is the locking clip at the HDMI connectors.  I have been using them, no issues, so far.

(Audio)

Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2014, 21:11 »
Interesting info:
http://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/hdmi-2.0-hdcp-2.2

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HDMI 2.0 The last version of HDMI was 1.4. This allowed data transfers of up to 10.2Gbps. Version 1.4 also added 3D support, Audio Return Channel, and a few other features over previous versions. The largest change in HDMI Version 2.0 is the increase in the amount of data that can be sent. Version 2.0 can transfer up to 18Gbps. While HDMI 1.4 allowed up to 4k resolutions (Ultra HD or 4k), it was limited to 24 frames per second. The increased bandwidth of Version 2.0 allows full 4k at 50 or 60 frames per second.
While 24 frames per second is fine for watching films, video games often require higher frame rates. On top of that, the additional bandwidth allows for other advancements like:
 10 and 12-bit color Version 1.4 had an 8-bit color maximum. The increased bit-depth allows for more colors to be displayed. While 8-bit allowed for 16.7 million colors, 12-bit allows for closer to 70 billion. Better color is obviously a good thing.
 Dual Video Streams HDMI 2.0 allows for two video streams to be sent to the same screen (1080p) along with audio. While this sounds like a terrible idea, it works well when coupled with 3D glasses. One person would see one image while the other would see a second. For gaming, this allows two people to use the same screen without having to split the screen. Those that like racing or sport games will immediately recognize the advantage of keeping you screen private from the person you are playing against.
 Up to 32 Channels of Audio HDMI 1.4 maxed out at 8 channels of audio without the use of lossy compression. With Dolby Atmos and other multichannel solutions on the way from Auro and DTS, having more audio channels will become very important. HDMI 2.0 can support up to 32 channels of audio. The quality of the audio stream has also increased up to a maximum of 1536 kHz (48 kHz sampling rate per channel for the full 32 channels). This easily supports high-def audio in more modest multichannel system.
 HDMI CEC HDMI 2.0 promises a revamping of the HDMI CEC. CEC promised to control all our devices with one remote through the HDMI connection. Our experience with HDMI CEC has been spotty at best and everything we've read from others agrees. A CEC retooling could make this feature actually useful. Hopefully.
 No New Cables Most importantly, HDMI 2.0 makes all these changes without requiring users to buy new cables. Unfortunately, currently HDMI 1.4 ports can't be firmware upgraded to HDMI 2.0. That means if you have a device with 1.4, you'll be limited by it until you upgrade everything in your signal chain. This becomes important as we explore what HDCP 2.2 brings to the table.
 HDCP 2.2 If you do want 4k content, every device in your video chain must have HDCP 2.2. HDCP stands for High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection. HDCP requires that each HDMI connection establish a unique link between the two devices, often called a handshake. This "handshake" trades encrypted codes between the devices so that you can't plug your Blu-ray player into a recorder and rip a copy. Many of the problems that we hear people having with their HDMI devices comes from this handshake failing.
HDCP 2.2 is all about protecting 4k content. That means if you want to stick with 1080p for the time being, you don't have to worry about HDCP 2.2. If you do want 4k content, every device in your video chain must have HDCP 2.2. This will be true in the future where content will be HDCP 2.2 encrypted. Non-2.2 encrypted content will not apply.
The problem we've seen is that people are assuming that anything with HDMI 2.0 will have HDCP 2.2. So far, that has not been the case. Our research has shown that there are no devices currently offered that have both a full HDMI 2.0 implementation and HDCP 2.2.
Right now, if you've bought (or are thinking of buying) a new receiver from the likes of Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha, you may see HDMI 2.0 on the specification sheet. This is a full 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 port meaning you can realize all the additional benefits of HDMI 2.0. But they don't have HDCP 2.2 so future content may or may not be limited.
On the flip side, new Onkyo receivers are listed with HDCP 2.2. What they aren't telling you is that the HDMI 2.0 implementation is limited to 10.2Gbps (just like HDMI 1.4). While this allows the Onkyo receiver to pass the HDCP 2.2 handshake, it will limit how much data can be passed, negating many of the benefits of HDMI 2.0.
 If the device does NOT show HDCP 2.2 compatibility, when native 4k content arrives, your device will not accept it. If you are shopping for a 4k display, you'll want to look for HDCP 2.2 compatibility as well as resolution and bit depth. Match the display's capabilities with the HDMI 2.0 maximums, and you should be good to go. If the display does NOT show HDCP 2.2 compatibility, when native 4k content arrives, your display will not accept it. On receivers, you'll want to check how many of their inputs/outputs are HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 enabled. Right now, manufacturers are limiting the maximum number to decrease costs. With limited bandwidth on some HDMI 2.0 terminals and lack of HDCP 2.2 on others, you may have to send video directly from your Blu-ray player to your display (bypassing your receiver) if you buy one of the first generation HDMI 2.0 receivers.
 Conclusion HDCP 2.2 must be on a HDMI 2.0 terminal but not all HDMI connections support the full HDMI 2.0 spec. It is a confusing time as HDMI 2.0 is only now hitting the market. In a year or two, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 will be ubiquitous. For now, consumers need to purchase with care lest they end up with a device that will become obsolete when native 4k content arrives.  If you truly care about native 4k, then make sure ALL of your equipment that you plan on transmitting it through has the hardware support.  If the new HDTV or AV Receiver you are contemplating on buying now doesn't support HDCP 2.2, you may want to hold off for the next product cycle which is usually 8-10 months for AV receivers and HDTV's.
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Offline francishuang

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2014, 21:34 »
i guess i will wait for end 2015  for big ticket upgrades
Shindo is Music

Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #129 on: October 07, 2014, 23:00 »
Yes, the crux of the problem lies with the 4K industry - the manner in which 4K content is broadcast (say via cable like Netflix or Vudu) which on specs requires HDCP2.2 for transmission as well as the DRM equivalent for playback on 4K display when the new 4K bluray standards kick in...There is a good chance that most of the existing 4K UHD display - be it Projector or UHD TV may not have the capability to decode HDCP2.2 properly and as it appears that HDCP2.2 requires a change in hardware component to support it IIRC. One thing is for certain...there will be a lot of pissed-off early 4K adopters and guess what I AM ONE OF THEM!

Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #130 on: October 08, 2014, 02:30 »
Well one way to look at this: only Sony has hdcp 2.2 right now, and by the time 4k really kicks in, you would have upgraded already :)
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Offline desray

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #131 on: October 08, 2014, 06:57 »
Well one way to look at this: only Sony has hdcp 2.2 right now, and by the time 4k really kicks in, you would have upgraded already :)

FWIW none of the latest AV Receivers have HDCP2.2 except Onkyo...this may pose a problem for average users intending to use AV Receiver as a switcher for connecting to their 4K display. Of course, the workaround is to implement another separate HDMI output with full HDCP2.2 specs - just like Oppo did for its range of bluray players.

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #132 on: October 08, 2014, 07:01 »
Wasn't there a rumour the AV8802 and Denon AVR equivalent would have both HDCP2.2 and the high bandwidth?
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Offline petetherock

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #133 on: October 08, 2014, 07:14 »
What I meant was only Sony has implemented hdcp 2.2 in their 4k player..
Yes it seems that the higher end models may get the chip...
I am a little annoyed at this state... Imagine a newly released amp that faces this issue... Nuts
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Offline Hass

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Re: HDMI discussion thread - including new developments & 2.0
« Reply #134 on: October 08, 2014, 10:21 »
how about cables? does the current HDMI 1.4 cable between player/AVR and display needs to be changed to HDMI 2.0 cables to display 4K/60fps & 12 bit colors?