Author Topic: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion  (Read 530660 times)

Offline armoury

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #735 on: June 07, 2010, 12:24 »
Adoi!  Don't read XP over the weekend and I find that I've missed the handbags at 10 paces at the XP Corral...  ;)

well, not so incredible compared to the one-time giant and premier league champion, leeds utd and 7th is not the lowest position LFC has finished. but that's ok becos i believe LFC will bounces back eventually.

Just to nitpick, Leeds never won the Premier League in its current form, they won the last "old Division One" in 1992.  And whether Leeds are a true "giant" or a mere flash in the 70s (and once in the 90s) is debateable: they only ever won 3 titles, the same as other "giants" such as Huddersfield (who dey?), Wolves (barely avoided relegation) and (woah!) Blackburn.

True. Liverpool FC are still the best British club ever. ManU can only dream of taking that mantle if they have a successful succession after Ferguson...

Depends on your definition of "best".  ManYoo may pass Liverpool's haul of 18 titles next season, after all.  Don't get me wrong, I have always had a grudging respect for Liverpool yet loathed the Moaners, even when they weren't reeling off title wins, but you can't argue with "most titles". 

I must say I agree with Dude's post.  7th is a disaster for Liverpool, but imagine how pleased Brum would be to do so.  Just as the T*tts celebrated 4th place like it was winning something, whilst the Gooners are moaning about the disappointment of 3rd...  (sorry, obligatory dig)

Svennis would be a disaster for Liverpool.  As would 'Arry "he's got a twitch" Redknapp.  Neither of them has the ability to manage well with a tight budget, which is the problem these days at Anfield.  Ironically, the one man who's proven he can do it reasonably well, is at Ashburton Grove...

(and before all you T*tts start going "what about his record at Southampton, Portsmouth, Bournemouth etc, all those clubs ultimately wound up in administration.  'Nuff said.  At least Svennis managed some minor miracles with Gothenburg, but that was over 20 years ago.)

And finally, yes 1989 was a bit of luck, but ironically it was due to similar tactics employed by King Kenny on that night as Rafa did against Arsenal more recently: Liverpool clearly set out to avoid a 2-0 loss, and even at 1-0 down showed little adventure, allowing Arsenal to nick it at the end.  And don't forget, it wasn't just settled on points, or even goal difference, but on goals scored over the entire season, and Arsenal had scored more.  No fluke in scoring more goals against your opponents.
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Offline freddyhappy

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #736 on: June 07, 2010, 12:46 »
whilst the Gooners are moaning about the disappointment of 3rd...  (sorry, obligatory dig)

I believe before the last season start, a lot of Gooners fans would take 3rd with smile, there was even fear dropping out of top four then.

Perhaps for liverpool finishing 2nd in the previous season and rising of Man City while Man Utd and Chelsea are always certain a place in top four has given some scare to Gooners fans.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 12:49 by freddyhappy »

Offline armoury

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #737 on: June 07, 2010, 13:55 »
I believe before the last season start, a lot of Gooners fans would take 3rd with smile, there was even fear dropping out of top four then.

Perhaps for liverpool finishing 2nd in the previous season and rising of Man City while Man Utd and Chelsea are always certain a place in top four has given some scare to Gooners fans.

That's true, but after actually topping the table at one point, keeping pace for most of the season and seriously challenging for the title till April, falling away like that at the end was a bit disappointing.

It's all about expectations, eh?
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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #738 on: June 07, 2010, 14:02 »
Depends on your definition of "best".  ManYoo may pass Liverpool's haul of 18 titles next season, after all.  Don't get me wrong, I have always had a grudging respect for Liverpool yet loathed the Moaners, even when they weren't reeling off title wins, but you can't argue with "most titles". 

But one can try.. ;D 

For me, somehow, these days of chequebook football and titles is not quite the same as the good old days. Liverpool titles were spread out over a longer period. They were achieved with different players and teams. And successive managers. Take away the EPL and its newfound popularity and riches, and Fergie (the best manager ever) ManU's record dont look so great.

(Oh great, gone and stepped on another pile of sh*t again... :-X)


Speaking of 89, yes, that goal by Campbell at the death owed as much to luck as any skill and gameplan by Graham. I read somewhere Fergie saying he was shouting at the telly at Lukic "you f***king bas***d!" when he threw the ball out instead of kicking it upfield into the Liverpool box. Who knows what might have happened if Lukic had indeed done that? I suppose it was just the footballing gods having some fun... ;D

(see. we gooners have no issues with admitting that Arsenal have been lucky (or unlucky  :() in games...)
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Offline armoury

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #739 on: June 07, 2010, 15:26 »
Speaking of 89, yes, that goal by Campbell at the death owed as much to luck as any skill and gameplan by Graham. I read somewhere Fergie saying he was shouting at the telly at Lukic "you f***king bas***d!" when he threw the ball out instead of kicking it upfield into the Liverpool box. Who knows what might have happened if Lukic had indeed done that? I suppose it was just the footballing gods having some fun... ;D

Campbell??  ???

It was Mickey Thomas, who infamously joined Liverpool about two seasons later, and naturally got plenty of stick in the Anfield dressing room from those who were still around from that night.

I must admit I had the same reaction when Lukic threw the ball out instead of punting it.  But he was absolutely right to do so, as it turns out.
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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #740 on: June 07, 2010, 16:15 »
Oops! Yup it was Michael Thomas.

Old but what pleasant memories..    :) Still can recall the commentator's words just before Thomas scored: "its all up for grabs now"

(Of course, another take to that little tale is Fergies' love for Liverpool even back than... ;))
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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #741 on: June 07, 2010, 16:33 »
I think about time I got off this thread...
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Offline SiriuslyCold

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #742 on: June 08, 2010, 09:09 »
aww, the world cup hasn't started yet

Offline lewlian

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #743 on: June 08, 2010, 14:26 »

My bringing up of '89 was just to cite the point about luck being used to describe the '05 CL win. There are obviously different opinions as to the win so obviously I had mine. In fact when it is done and dusted the record will show who won.

It just doesn't sit well with some of Wenger's followers that luck is "never" with them.

SC - as for WC2010, there are more appropriate threads.  ;)
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Offline armoury

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #744 on: June 08, 2010, 15:06 »
My bringing up of '89 was just to cite the point about luck being used to describe the '05 CL win. There are obviously different opinions as to the win so obviously I had mine. In fact when it is done and dusted the record will show who won.

Just as, to address the issue of FAC 2005 which was mentioned somewhere, notwithstanding that Arsenal played negative football (for once) and just stifled ManYoo, the record shows that Arsenal won it.

Quote
It just doesn't sit well with some of Wenger's followers that luck is "never" with them.

Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.  But I think we can all agree that ManYoo's luck is such that Fergie must have sold his soul to the devil...  ;D

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Offline dude

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #745 on: June 09, 2010, 14:07 »
Actually, is the current squad that bad? I don't think so.

There are some positions which could have a bit more quality, sure, but with a shrewd tatician, and good man-manager, I don't see why we can't be back challenging for 2nd.

Yes, 2nd. We are still someways away from challenging for the title. Maybe a good transitional 2010-2011, with the finances restored, will see us challenging for the title in 2011-2012.

The problem may have been with Rafa was playing players out of position and a defence-first strategy. Another coach who is more attack-minded, and who chooses players based on their natural position may do better.

And about the debt, yes, 350+ Mil is bad, but not as bad as the amt that the Glazers have saddled on Man U. Of course, for the potential new owners at Anfield, there is still the cost of the stadium to be added to their investment..

So, we may need to stay at Anfield for another couple of years, while we get the playing side of things sorted out. Which is fine by me...gives me more time to save up, and hopefully watch a match at Anfield before it is demolished...

Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #746 on: June 09, 2010, 16:14 »
Actually, is the current squad that bad? I don't think so.


Since you brought this up... Check out the latest F365 mailbox. Someone has written pointing out that every member of Liverpool's 1st team is representing his country at the World Cup. Including the sub. And we are not talking of players in the South African team or something. He asks whether any other club has such a representation. Whaddya think?

(disclaimer: I've not verified the above!!)
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Offline armoury

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #747 on: June 09, 2010, 17:53 »
Since you brought this up... Check out the latest F365 mailbox. Someone has written pointing out that every member of Liverpool's 1st team is representing his country at the World Cup. Including the sub.

List of EPL players at World Cup 2010:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1283981/WORLD-CUP-2010-The-Premier-League-leads-way-South-Africa-Sportsmails-club-club-guide-106-stars-heading-World-Cup.html

I can't say I know who is in the first XI or not, so we'll have to ask Scousers to verify their own, and the fans of the other clubs to have a look at their lists.  But offhand, I'd say Kyrgiakos and Babel aren't exactly first XI for Liverpool, although their mix is such that they can indeed field a feasible XI out of their WC2010 reps. 

Chelski can't only because the Czechs didn't make it, otherwise Cech would be first choice for his country.  Which points out the randomness of such a comparison, it all depends on whether a correct combination of countries qualified.  For a different reason, ManYoo can't field a complete XI, because van der Sar retired from internationals, and refused to come back even though the coach asked him to.

Arsenal's keepers aren't international quality (even if Flappy nominally is, but Poland didn't qualify anyway), but otherwise a pretty decent 4-3-3 which is reasonably close to the first XI can be fielded out of those at WC2010.  I read in some other article that Arsenal's 15 reps at WC2006 is the record for one club's participation, and I suppose Chelski would have beaten it but for Ballack and Essien getting crocked (and now Drogba).  It would be some achievement if some day a club could provide an entire 23-man squad out of its ranks, but with the new EPL restrictions on and emphasis on 'home-grown' players, that seems unlikely.

As another aside, England, Germany and Italy have squads where all 23 players play in their domestic leagues, i.e. no foreign-based players.  Again, an 'accident' because Beckham and Ballack got crocked, but for the Italians it seems quite typical -- I seem to remember in 2006 they also had an all-home team. 
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Offline dude

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #748 on: June 09, 2010, 18:35 »
I've not seen the list, will do so later...

But to me a player good enough for his country, does not mean that he is good enough at club level to be in First 11 of a top team. It could be that his country does not have that many top quality players.

For example, during Ian Rush's time, Southall was a great keeper, and besides, Rush, think Kevin Radcliff was Welsh too. But the rest of the squad was not good enough, so, if I recall, Rush never played at the World Cup.

Same for Giggs, I think...the rest of the squad was just not good enough...

Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #749 on: June 10, 2010, 00:11 »
But to me a player good enough for his country, does not mean that he is good enough at club level to be in First 11 of a top team.

Yup, I dont think that lot is good enough to be Liverpool's first 11. Only one defensive midfielder in there... :P
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