Author Topic: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion  (Read 530383 times)

Offline lewlian

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #705 on: June 05, 2010, 12:46 »

Pingyu - sticks and stones... come on you can do better than stoop low when caught out. If one can get angry over such trivial playground stuff then  :-X

Landis - boredom does drive some to juvenile post when hidden behind a computer to get a reaction but to each his own lah.

As for Liverpool...j45yip is right. Sh*t happens and it is not as if Rafa's reign was barren and nothing came out of it. I'm a glass half empty guy and the Istanbul and FA Cup nights he gave the supporters was worth something. Not even going to compare against what other clubs won or not for the past five years. For those whose clubs did, well done and enjoy the satisfaction. For those who did not, it is by no means less satisfying, otherwise where would you find another 19 clubs to play with the winner if all the losers are sore. Or those who are relegated and return.

YNWA as far as I am concern for Liverpool.  ;)
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Offline yellowhandman

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #706 on: June 05, 2010, 12:59 »
What I feel Liverpool fans fail to appreciate is that Rafa's initial success - with a team that he had very much inherited from his predecessor - led him to believe that he was always right.

From my outside point of view, it seemed that sometimes he was more interested in proving that he was right, than actually doing what was best for the team. Hence he stuck with inexplicable choices like yo-yoing Benayoun in and out of the lineup regardless of how well he was playing.

Another bad habit he seemed to have was buying players, then playing them out of position or not playing them at all - as if he had not thought out properly what he was going to do with them before buying. Aquilani was just the latest example of this trait. And his stubbornness compounded the problem 'cuz he would stick with players that clearly couldn't make it, expecting them to prove him right.

Although as a United fan it has been fun watching Liverpool's decline in the last season, there's also an objective football fan in me who thinks it is sad what has happened to Liverpool. My humble non-fan opinion is that Rafa is as much to blame as the owners - maybe that's because I'm able to separate his early achievements (which, since I'm not a fan, don't carry any happy memories) from how bad he has been in the past year.

Even in the season before, when Liverpool finished 2nd, I remember fans complaining that he was too conservative. I think those criticisms were right - if he had been more adventurous, Liverpool might even have pipped United for the championship back then.

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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #707 on: June 05, 2010, 13:24 »
Pingyu - sticks and stones... come on you can do better than stoop low when caught out. If one can get angry over such trivial playground stuff then  :-X

YNWA as far as I am concern for Liverpool.  ;)

Hey, chill out man, was just a light-hearted comment. After all, you chose to respond to my post, it wasnt the other way round. :P

Anyway, the manager effectively gets the sack. And everyone, even the sacked fella, comes out with the YNWA thing. Who is he walking with then? His assistants? The club physio's wife? Isnt somebody walking alone somewhere in that whole lot?

Also, my reference to 'incredible low" was not to the 7th place finish. Frankly that's really no big deal, not even to Liverpool. I was really referring to all that negative news coming out in the press. With the current owners, the current debt, the players, it does look bleak.

(I wonder, if the current owners finally leave, will they at least be walking alone?  No? Must be a scouse thing I suppose...:P)
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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #708 on: June 05, 2010, 13:48 »
What I feel Liverpool fans fail to appreciate is that Rafa's initial success - with a team that he had very much inherited from his predecessor - led him to believe that he was always right.

What many (not all) Liverpool fans really fail to appreciate is how incrediblly lucky (to the point of being flukey) the initial successes were. Unfortunately you cant quite fluke a league win after 38 games. You need a winning game plan. Rafa's was always an avoid defeat plan.


Even in the season before, when Liverpool finished 2nd, I remember fans complaining that he was too conservative. I think those criticisms were right - if he had been more adventurous, Liverpool might even have pipped United for the championship back then.

Ya, everyone remembers the 4-1 mauling of ManU at OT, But what about the 1-1 draw at the Emirates? Fabregas had gone out injured. Adebayor was sent off. And Liverpool fail to seize the initiative and hang on for a draw against a rampant 10-man Arsenal. I remember posting then that this game shows why Liverpool will never win the league...
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Offline j45yip

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #709 on: June 05, 2010, 15:44 »
hi YHM,

i find your views very objective and do agree with most of your post. However, the team that played in the final are a mix of his own and GH's. i think all LFC fans do appreciate what he did in istanbul.

With the squad he had last season and the questionable buys he did, playing players out of position is inevitable. like in the previous season, being too cautious and playing not to lose ended up with too many draws dropping too many points.

i hope we can learn from this and have a better campaign next season.

What I feel Liverpool fans fail to appreciate is that Rafa's initial success - with a team that he had very much inherited from his predecessor - led him to believe that he was always right.

From my outside point of view, it seemed that sometimes he was more interested in proving that he was right, than actually doing what was best for the team. Hence he stuck with inexplicable choices like yo-yoing Benayoun in and out of the lineup regardless of how well he was playing.

Another bad habit he seemed to have was buying players, then playing them out of position or not playing them at all - as if he had not thought out properly what he was going to do with them before buying. Aquilani was just the latest example of this trait. And his stubbornness compounded the problem 'cuz he would stick with players that clearly couldn't make it, expecting them to prove him right.

Although as a United fan it has been fun watching Liverpool's decline in the last season, there's also an objective football fan in me who thinks it is sad what has happened to Liverpool. My humble non-fan opinion is that Rafa is as much to blame as the owners - maybe that's because I'm able to separate his early achievements (which, since I'm not a fan, don't carry any happy memories) from how bad he has been in the past year.

Even in the season before, when Liverpool finished 2nd, I remember fans complaining that he was too conservative. I think those criticisms were right - if he had been more adventurous, Liverpool might even have pipped United for the championship back then.


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Offline j45yip

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #710 on: June 05, 2010, 16:10 »
...istanbul is luck and a fluke?  :) yeah who can forget the 4-1 scoreline. is that a fluke as well? so, in another word, you're saying no team should have a problem beating a 9-men team?

What many (not all) Liverpool fans really fail to appreciate is how incrediblly lucky (to the point of being flukey) the initial successes were. Unfortunately you cant quite fluke a league win after 38 games. You need a winning game plan. Rafa's was always an avoid defeat plan.

Ya, everyone remembers the 4-1 mauling of ManU at OT, But what about the 1-1 draw at the Emirates? Fabregas had gone out injured. Adebayor was sent off. And Liverpool fail to seize the initiative and hang on for a draw against a rampant 10-man Arsenal. I remember posting then that this game shows why Liverpool will never win the league...
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Offline lewlian

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #711 on: June 05, 2010, 17:11 »
Hey, chill out man, was just a light-hearted comment. After all, you chose to respond to my post, it wasnt the other way round. :P

Anyway, the manager effectively gets the sack. And everyone, even the sacked fella, comes out with the YNWA thing. Who is he walking with then? His assistants? The club physio's wife? Isnt somebody walking alone somewhere in that whole lot?

Also, my reference to 'incredible low" was not to the 7th place finish. Frankly that's really no big deal, not even to Liverpool. I was really referring to all that negative news coming out in the press. With the current owners, the current debt, the players, it does look bleak.

(I wonder, if the current owners finally leave, will they at least be walking alone?  No? Must be a scouse thing I suppose...:P)

No need to chill as I am not even remotely anywhere near having a temperature lah.

If I have to point out to you about the raison d'etre of YNWA...obviously you are never going to get it. Unless you are miffed there isn't an equivalent when you need to express it supporting the Gunners' cupboard full of trophies and titles the past few years?

As for it being fluke winning in Istanbul...let's just not forget Liverpool also made the finals in 2007. So what if it was a knockout system and I hate to point out the obvious but did Arsene get anywhere near in a 3yr spell in the same competition? Granted Rafa's tactics and nous in the EPL could not match what he achieved with Valencia in La Liga but one has to give him his dues. Cannot say that for managers who waltz in and out of clubs but have nothing to show.
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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #712 on: June 05, 2010, 23:01 »


If I have to point out to you about the raison d'etre of YNWA...obviously you are never going to get it. Unless you are miffed there isn't an equivalent when you need to express it supporting the Gunners' cupboard full of trophies and titles the past few years?

As for it being fluke winning in Istanbul...let's just not forget Liverpool also made the finals in 2007. So what if it was a knockout system and I hate to point out the obvious but did Arsene get anywhere near in a 3yr spell in the same competition? Granted Rafa's tactics and nous in the EPL could not match what he achieved with Valencia in La Liga but one has to give him his dues. Cannot say that for managers who waltz in and out of clubs but have nothing to show.


Yes, Arsenal have had an even longer barren spell. No, we dont need any corny expression to console ourselves over this. But yes, it is very very frustrating. But Wenger and the board's management of the team and club is very very different. So, despite all the venting and tearing, we do have to recognise the general soundness of their methods and beliefs. I doubt anyone can say the same for Benitez or for LFC... With Benitez gone perhaps there will be a change, I hope.

As for that win in Istanbul, if you and other Liverpool fans truly believe it wasnt flukey or even lucky, well, all I can say is the victors deserve all the revisionist history they can write....
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Offline lewlian

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #713 on: June 05, 2010, 23:09 »
You seem utterly peeved the Gunners did not have much progress in the CL to keep knocking the Istanbul incident. Sad case really. Like I say...sticks and stones... to have to resort to labeling something close to Liverpool as "corny" just goes to show...what can I say.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 23:15 by lewlian »
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Offline lewlian

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #714 on: June 05, 2010, 23:16 »

On another note came across this article that says it as it is rather than the bandwagon jumping media stories...

Rafa Benitez leaves Liverpool as a legend so could critics please stop rewriting history?
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Offline Pingu

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #715 on: June 05, 2010, 23:18 »
You seem utterly peeved Le Arse did not have much progress in the CL to keep knocking the Istanbul incident. Sad case really.


Sad alright, wish the Arse had that kind of fluke/luck too. But if it was merely a case of sour grapes, I should be knocking the 4 earlier wins too, no? Or perhaps you cant quite recall them? ;)
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Offline yellowhandman

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GLORY GLORY MAN UNITED! GO LAKERS! FORZA FERRARI!

Offline j45yip

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Re: Liverpool articles/interesting reads/discussion
« Reply #717 on: June 06, 2010, 09:52 »
...of course you would  :) for me, i would like to see king kenny back at the throne again. hopefully, his presence would stabilize the club at this point of time...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/7805876/Sven-Goran-Eriksson-it-would-be-a-dream-to-manage-Liverpool.html

The con-manager Sven says he'd like to manage Liverpool...

I VOTE FOR HIM!  ;D


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Offline cn9601

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Spurs boss emerges as shock contender for Anfield hotseat
« Reply #718 on: June 06, 2010, 10:07 »
hmmm.....he could be a good choice, esp. as a bid to win EPL. Given the 'blood deep' relationship btw him and Dalglish, Redknapp might be the ONE afterall. I will WELCOME him. And hopefully Torres and Stevie wont be sold...... 8)

Reds plan Redknapp swoop
Spurs boss emerges as shock contender for Anfield hotseat
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6192473,00.html

Offline j45yip

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Re: Spurs boss emerges as shock contender for Anfield hotseat
« Reply #719 on: June 06, 2010, 10:25 »
...no disrespect to HR but he don't have european pedigree. well, not yet if you consider spurs still needs to go through the qualifying stage of the UCL. he's good at keeping club from relegation but winning the league title? i'm not so sure...
 
i don't think the duo will go for now. however, the club must qualify for UCL next season to keep them  :)

hmmm.....he could be a good choice, esp. as a bid to win EPL. Given the 'blood deep' relationship btw him and Dalglish, Redknapp might be the ONE afterall. I will WELCOME him. And hopefully Torres and Stevie wont be sold...... 8)

Reds plan Redknapp swoop
Spurs boss emerges as shock contender for Anfield hotseat
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6192473,00.html
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