Author Topic: HD Fury  (Read 17506 times)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #405 on: June 04, 2020, 19:47 »
OK gotcha about the RGB high and low. As for the chart I don't think its an average, but the full (maximum) bandwidth. 4:2:2 YCbCr requires two-thirds the bandwidth of "full"4:4:4: RGB. Hence as Desray says, current HDMI 18Gbps cable maxes out at either 4K/60 4:4:4 8 bits or 4K/60 4:2:2 12 bits (ie Dolby Vision). Premium Certified cable cannot support 4K/60 4:4:4 at 12 bits. That would require 25Gbits/s. Maybe your Moshu cable can do that, but virtually all TVs, UHD Players and projectors that have HDMI 2.0b interfaces will not recognize that and wouldn't know what to do with the signal. For movies you should be able to run at 4K/24 4:4:4 12 bits, which requires only 12.5Gbps and runs at the natural frame rate movies are usually shot at and would have maximum clarity assuming you can see the difference between RGB and YCbCr. Gemini Man Blu Ray would be the only movie that would benefit from 25Gbps 4K/60 4:4:4 assuming we can find both a display and Blu Ray player with a >HDMI 2.0b interface.

Here's an online calculator for bandwidth: https://k.kramerav.com/support/bwcalculator.asp

Yea perfecto ! But I wasn’t aware if it’s even possible for 4:4:4 RGB 10bit , I thought it was only maxed out at 8bit for RGB , until I saw this chart. Good to know . I could definitely see the difference running RGB from source on the ATV4K. Still continuing for now testing phase, see if I encounter any issues with bandwidth. If I do I can always revert to yCbCr, not too bad

ATV4K is also very good, not bad for Netflix and can check the hdmi connections and bandwidth

Offline desray

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #406 on: June 04, 2020, 21:28 »
Bro Roni, your enthusiasm about the Vertex 2 is contagious! Even I also can’t keep up with it!  ;D ;D ;D

Offline chimaera1982

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #407 on: June 04, 2020, 21:37 »
Hi All

Just to ask if any one can share their Sony 4K PJ setting when using Vertex2 for LLDV from a DV source like the ATV4K. It would really help to know what settings work.
Am using the 260ES yup the bottom rung but maybe can take some pointers on the settings you guys here use.

Thanks!

Offline ronildoq

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #408 on: June 04, 2020, 22:03 »
Bro Roni, your enthusiasm about the Vertex 2 is contagious! Even I also can’t keep up with it!  ;D ;D ;D

Yea am enjoying myself, learning from tsammy, yourself and doggie, win too. Didn’t know hd fury had a HD base T version. So many things to learn, never ending...

Offline desray

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #409 on: June 05, 2020, 07:18 »
Hi All

Just to ask if any one can share their Sony 4K PJ setting when using Vertex2 for LLDV from a DV source like the ATV4K. It would really help to know what settings work.
Am using the 260ES yup the bottom rung but maybe can take some pointers on the settings you guys here use.

Thanks!
No “magic” settings if that’s what you are asking. The only setting to play around with are the Max / Min luminance and MaxCLL AND FALL settings to suit your display target nits. Apart from that, there is nothing else.

Remember Vertex 2 is NOT a calibration device but to spoof a DV signal to the display from the source. Another feature is to resolve most of not all HDMI handshake issues related to EDIDs.

That’s really all there is to it. It’s a “set once-and-leave-it” device to say the least.


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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #410 on: June 05, 2020, 07:23 »
Hi All

Just to ask if any one can share their Sony 4K PJ setting when using Vertex2 for LLDV from a DV source like the ATV4K. It would really help to know what settings work.
Am using the 260ES yup the bottom rung but maybe can take some pointers on the settings you guys here use.

Thanks!

What I recommend is use the settings I posted in the first page and set your HDR settings on the projector to HDR Reference.

HDR on the Sony allows you to tonemap for higher nits. HDR Reference is an optimized mode for 1000 nits. Kinda like their grading reference monitor. By setting Dolby Vision settings in Vertex 2 for 1000 nits, this should map well with the projector in HDR Reference mode.
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Offline desray

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #411 on: June 05, 2020, 07:28 »
What I recommend is use the settings I posted in the first page and set your HDR settings on the projector to HDR Reference.

HDR on the Sony allows you to tonemap for higher nits. HDR Reference is an optimized mode for 1000 nits. Kinda like their grading reference monitor. By setting Dolby Vision settings in Vertex 2 for 1000 nits, this should map well with the projector in HDR Reference mode.
I wonder does VW260ES has that mode for HDR?


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Offline tsammyc

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #412 on: June 05, 2020, 09:03 »
Yea am enjoying myself, learning from tsammy, yourself and doggie, win too. Didn’t know hd fury had a HD base T version. So many things to learn, never ending...

Roni, the other two are sifus, but don't give me any credit. You are the master calibrator we all aspire to. I'm new at this but just good with Google  ;)

Offline chimaera1982

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #413 on: June 05, 2020, 11:56 »
I wonder does VW260ES has that mode for HDR?


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The 260ES does not have the dedicated HDR Reference preset. However based on S&V suggested settings the Cinema 1 can be set for SDR and Cinema 2 HDR. This is what I did. I didn't follow the suggested setting 100% but adjusted accordingly.

Yes I copied and paste Doggiehowser Vertex2 setting and used that with the Cinema 2 SV settings on the 260ES. I may have to do a dedicated DV preset later let's see.

Offline winwinc81

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #414 on: June 05, 2020, 16:59 »
Yea am enjoying myself, learning from tsammy, yourself and doggie, win too. Didn’t know hd fury had a HD base T version. So many things to learn, never ending...
Lol bro Roni, I should be the one learning from all here... not the other way round. Am happy people here can "hack" their visual pleasure using the vertex2 that's all. One thing that cannot run away is still calibration... Like you have said, you can't simply plug in minidsp and expect BEQ to appear all of sudden.

Well apart from those who can only calibrate via naked eyes, feel free to ask question here may I suggest. There are no right or wrong questions so pls don't be afraid to ask for those who are reading this message.

In fact, the more question everyone ask (rather than just view and keep question to yourselves, or try to find anywhere in other forum), the more it will benefit in our little vertex community here. 1 person might only offer 1/5 of knowledge, Imagine all chime in, it will be more than a whole already.

Sharing is caring, ask more

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Offline tsammyc

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #415 on: June 06, 2020, 16:45 »
Today I integrated the Vertex2 into my Logitech Harmony Hub. For those who don't know what the Harmony Hub is, its a device that can emit Bluetooth and IR and has a huge database of devices that it can control. Bluetooth is used to control devices like the Apple TV or Amazon Firestick 4K, while IR is used to control receivers, screens, projectors etc. It has codes for everything from my BenQ projector to my Yamaha Receiver and can set surround modes, or even mimick a sequence of presses on a remote. The software is clunky and difficult to use both on a PC or Phone App, but after fiddling for hours, I usually get what I want to work.

Although the Vertex2 doesn't come with a remote control, HDFury have sent the remote codes to Logitech to update their database, and once you configure Vertex2 as a Logitech Hub device, you can get it to do almost anything. It's not a replacement for the web interface because you can't see the effect of what you have done, but its important if you want to control a sequence of events. For me, its turning on the projector, Vertex2, Receiver and electric screen, then setting the audio input/mode on the receiver and telling the Vertex2 to use the correct input. I have different Logitech routines for the Apple TV, Firestick and Panny player.

Harmony Hub is also linked to Amazon Alexa, so if I say "Alexa, turn on FireTV", it will turn on all devices programmed into the Harmony Hub, including setting the Vertex2 input to Input1. If I say, "Alexa, turn on Apple TV", it will turn on everything and set the Vertex2 input to Input0. I suppose I could also put in different settings in terms of color space, nits etc, but haven't done that yet. For anyone lazy to pick up 4-5 remotes to turn on everything or go into the web interface to switch inputs (Vertex2 doesn't seem to do this reliably for some devices), then its a godsend.

I have some RF curtains, which cannot be controlled by the Harmony Hub because it doesn't have RF. To control anything RF, I recommend a device called the Broadlink RM Pro, which outputs RF, but not Bluetooth. It can also be integrated into Alexa. One day, someone will make a device with IR, RF and Bluetooth, but until then, two hubs are necessary.

Offline winwinc81

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #416 on: June 06, 2020, 22:17 »
Good one bro... So far I only get to select the input source to with. Do you get your harmony hub to be able to ir all the selection that preset in your harmony hub for the vertex 2?

Which ir set code did you use in the vertex 2?

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Offline tsammyc

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #417 on: June 07, 2020, 07:44 »
The IR codes are in the Vertex2 manual and were provided to Logitech for their Harmony database. From what I see from the Harmony app, I have a lot of options such as choosing custom EDID tables, ARC, CEC, turning OSD on and off and control over the Vertex2 buttons. All quite useful, say for the professional installer. So far I'm just using input select to automate switching correctly between my three devices on power up.

Offline winwinc81

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #418 on: June 08, 2020, 11:33 »
The IR codes are in the Vertex2 manual and were provided to Logitech for their Harmony database. From what I see from the Harmony app, I have a lot of options such as choosing custom EDID tables, ARC, CEC, turning OSD on and off and control over the Vertex2 buttons. All quite useful, say for the professional installer. So far I'm just using input select to automate switching correctly between my three devices on power up.
Yes there are a bunch of selections from the remote. So far I only use input selection as well. But my source is connected to the AVP first and then from AVP output into Vertex2 port, therefore when i select the input from vertex 2, there will still be audio less the display haha

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Offline moonlight

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Re: HD Fury
« Reply #419 on: June 08, 2020, 19:23 »
At the end of the day, we are limited by the current bandwidth at 18Gbps (Premium certified) for 4K content regardless of the Color space sent out. So test YCC at 12bit HDR or RGB (full) at 8 bit will be the same.


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Hi brother Desray and Tsammyc
My projector is a 4K PJ but it is a beginner model (not high end like yours) therefore I intend to improve it.
Will this tool improve PQ? are you satisfied with its improvement?
Is it expensive and easy to use?
Indeed, It is a journey of improvement



Desray, thanks for the thoughts. I am getting this device for my projector, but I think it might be useful for non-DV TVs. I'm going to try it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+, but not DV. I'm going to try to feed it DV source (from UHD Blu Ray, ATV4K & FireStick 4K) and get it to output HDR10+ :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 19:30 by moonlight »

 

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