Author Topic: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference  (Read 468 times)

Offline adolfotregosa

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Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« on: May 12, 2020, 17:41 »
I posted this on avsforum, hopping I'll have more luck here.

"Guys, please, help me out on this one.. I cannot be the only one having this issue -> denon X3600H

Audyssey, reference vs flat, should NOT change bass response, correct? Should only affect high frequency roll off.
If that is true I have found a bug ..?

I am using JRiver Media Center for this.

When I play a song with original sample rate of 44.1Khz @44.1Khz, on my case, the "flat" preset is changing bass response ( I feel bass is lost ). If I then using JRiver DSP, resample to 48Khz ,96Khz or even 192Khz and play the same music, flat vs reference, It does not change my bass response anymore, only highs as advertised but at 44.1Khz, flat is affecting bass also.

Ok, lets invert things then. Play some 96Khz music, resample to 48Khz.. all ok, resample to 44.1Khz and bass is "gone", there is a difference! Anything at 44.1Khz audyssey "flat" is touching bass response. Ok, It has to be something with my computer, so, what about playing the same music using dlna and toggling flat <-> reference ? Exact same issue, song with original 44.1Khz shows the issue but my other song at 96Khz does not!

You have here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D2wKSkZkN2Knv_RWDgLBHYPsuoQuuhxe my audyssey file from android app MultEQ, maybe someone can find if I am doing something wrong by looking at it with ratbuddyssey ..?

I have done factory reset receiver once, tested things, no go, did the restore factory firmware procedure (was using latest available version) and.. same results at 44.1Khz sample rate. Flat changes my bass response @44.1Khz input.

Can someone please repeat my test ?

Songs used;
"2 - Another One Bites The Dust" @96Khz from Queen - Greatest Hits
and
"6 - Moby - Disco Lies (Freemasons Remix)" @44.1Khz from Freemasons - Shakedown 2

Thank you"

edit: Changed google drive link for more ady and rew measurements.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 03:14 by adolfotregosa »

Offline Duaashish

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2020, 18:14 »
It sounds very unusual; I didn't experience this on my Denon previously. I tested the Moby song 44.1khz  just now using Tidal to Marantz 6013 via the Heos app; toggling between Flat and Reference did not change my perception of bass output. I tried with both settings: Dynamic Vol off and On. No perceptible change in bass while toggling between Flat and Reference. Do you keep Dynamic EQ Off or ON? How about Dynamic Vol? Does toggling between Reference and Flat by any chance changes your LFC setting? These shouldn't happen but this is an unusual situation.

I did another test streaming the same song via Nvidia Shield which decodes it at 48khz. Here also no change whilst toggling between Flat and Reference. It's a different matter that whatever shield does to 44.1khz files to send them as 48khz takes off some notable bass.


I am not able to open to Audyssey file; I don't get multieq as an option to open the file type but having done and loaded various configurations previously I do not recall anything in there that should affect the bass response between Flat and Reference.

Are you by any chance toggling between the two using Smart Select settings which may have added other variables that are not similar?


I might be wrong with my guesstimates but this could be a bass management issue that is present in so many modern receivers. For eg using Multistereo option also kills the bass in most Denon and Marantz receivers. If this issue indeed is specific to your model, you may have to wait for another owner of the same model to reconfirm. I have a friend who has this unit but he's not on this forum. I'll seek his opinion.

PS: what's the magnitude of  bass attenuation we are talking about? Could it be your perception? Are you able to measure it scientifically using a basic SPL app if you don't have Umik and REW.

Ash


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Offline adolfotregosa

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2020, 18:30 »
Hi. Thank you for your help.
No, I don't use anything but "stereo" for my music listening. I try to maintain settings as direct has possible. The only thing in use is DynEQ. Everything is off and set to "stereo". I can clearly hear difference in bass with flat ONLY with 44.1Khz signal!
I go into setup, audio , Audyssey and toggle there flat vs reference.

Like I said I cannot be the only one with this lol

I have umik just didn't have yet time to measure it but I can hear it. It is a suttle difference but enought for me to hear it. Also I don't remember if rew has option to change sample rate to 44.1Khz. I'll give it a go.

But, up sampling 44.1 to 48 or higher there is no more issue

Offline adolfotregosa

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2020, 19:12 »
And I am not crazy !! Are are rew measurements 44.1 vs 48. Flat is changing my bass curve @ 44.1 ! Crossover bug ?

https://imgur.com/a/rh3dCaT

Link to google drive folder with ady and rew file:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D2wKSkZkN2Knv_RWDgLBHYPsuoQuuhxe
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 19:15 by adolfotregosa »

Offline Duaashish

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2020, 19:24 »
And I am not crazy !! Are are rew measurements 44.1 vs 48. Flat is changing my bass curve @ 44.1 ! Crossover bug ?

https://imgur.com/a/rh3dCaT

Link to google drive folder with ady and rew file:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D2wKSkZkN2Knv_RWDgLBHYPsuoQuuhxe
Woah! Whats that purple line that is entirely off the range? The image is blur can't figure the details on the left pane.

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Offline adolfotregosa

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2020, 19:29 »
Look on my google drive link. You have there jpeg image. That is the "bug" I am talking about. @44.1Khz with MEQ XT : flat something is wrong.

Offline Duaashish

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2020, 19:37 »
Look on my google drive link. You have there jpeg image. That is the "bug" I am talking about. @44.1Khz with MEQ XT : flat something is wrong.
Well done. Whats your next step going to be? Hopefully a replacement unit won't have this problem.

PS: pretty flat curve when not "flat"

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Offline adolfotregosa

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2020, 19:51 »
No way, this is software. My workaround is simply choosing reference and using ratbuddyssey to reduce reference roll-off to my taste.

https://imgur.com/a/nIyZ9S0

Offline desray

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Re: Bug? Denon X3600H Audyssey flat vs reference
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2020, 20:51 »
If you only using Stereo for music listening. Then can you disable DEQ and go to 2Ch playback settings in the AVR, try to use “manual” and play with the crossover and see if there is any change playing 44.1, 96 and/or 192.


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