Author Topic: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source  (Read 10503 times)

Offline rayleh

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1141
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2020, 10:59 »
Well-said bro. It is indeed a journey as the learning and sharing will never end. I do agree that filters cause the timing to be out. I maybe influenced by you, bass is not about smooth response but timing is key too.

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2020, 11:44 »
Well-said bro. It is indeed a journey as the learning and sharing will never end. I do agree that filters cause the timing to be out. I maybe influenced by you, bass is not about smooth response but timing is key too.

Yes u r right bro, FR is just a small part to it. Whilst it’s nice to have a good tonal balance across the frequency range, it’s not the key point. Having a good timing response is way way more critical. Once we have good timing response, we bring down all the peaks in the FR. Lose a bit on the dips is ok. But if the dips are too big, EQ is not the solution. Placement is. If placement is limited, then helmhotz or room treatment is the other way. (Assuming dual subs are used)

The best is to make sure placement is optimal in the sense both are helping each other. This almost always results in one back one front placement diagonal corner. Then both time aligned. Then all speakers time aligned. Then combination of Two aligned. Then u will have the ultimate experience

The new REW is fantastic! It allows for “alignment tool” we can see how it shapes the response when they are combined without measuring. Saved me tons of time. We can also find the best alignment between the two by placement of the cursor at the XO region to find the Best group delay possible. This allows us to maximise the performance of the integration. What a fantastic tool, I’ve donated numerous times to John mulcahy, the author. I’ll donate again for his hard work done that’s saving all of us the time. It’s no Joke, it’s free and it’s fantastic

The best is to look at spectrogram for subwoofers, forget about waterfall or decay charts. Zoom in to spectrogram directly. U can see so many things here. Peak energy times, ringing, standing waves, lotsa things and best of all, much easier to interpret

Hope the above is helpful in your journey integrating your systems

Offline rayleh

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1141
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2020, 20:39 »
My journey couldn’t have been better with you guys. The knowledge I have gained from you and some of the brothers in this forum is invaluable. I must said I have come a long way.

Offline wizardofoz

  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 12917
  • Dont take life so seriously, nobody gets out alive
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #63 on: May 21, 2020, 03:05 »
Bryan...your next quest...heheheh


http://www.rotarywoofer.com/#
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2020, 22:57 »
Bryan...your next quest...heheheh


http://www.rotarywoofer.com/#

Hahaha, done for now on subs and audio stuff. Settled !! All good now. Switching into video mode now with the HD fury. Fantastic piece of accessories for PJ. Sort of like a must have for PJ owners. Superb for HDR

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2020, 18:09 »
It was a perfect Sunday afternoon for me to test the line source woofers

I was testing the demo unbroken scene in BEQ at MV -20, no problems with the line source woofers, (no high pass filters in place)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2IQACWnm11o&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/2IQACWnm11o&fs=1</a>

They were playing very well, clean sounding and at less than 1/2 the volume, had tons of headroom

What changed from the previous set up was the isolation on the subwoofers, with the granite beneath the subs and cork/sorbothane beneath the granite, the wooden structure no longer resonates.

What I was experiencing was pure air pressure, although the graph was showing less intensity below 30hz after the isolation , the tactile sensation was on another world

At this stage, kids were in the room with jigsaw puzzle and Mrs cooking in the kitchen

The entire hall was full of pressure, feels like I’m inside a pressure cooker

I needed to see how the seas line source was coping in BEQ without a high pass filter in place.

It passed the test !

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2020, 18:15 »
Next up I zoomed in to midbass, Max Payne midbass shotgun scene. I played this at MV-12 without BEQ, just to see how the seas are doing, against the seatons in midbass. What changed when I added the seas is the intensity felt at 40-60hz levels, this area is phenomenal

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YgBhrI3lBOY&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/YgBhrI3lBOY&fs=1</a>

No sweat from the seatons

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0_LjFEBHmYY&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0_LjFEBHmYY&fs=1</a>

Seas line source were hitting close to 140db at 85hz... lol pretty insane, bullets feels as if it’s piercing at this stage, although we can see much from the video. But at every place in the hall, I can feel the intense pressure on the ears...

It was unbearable for me. I was testing the limits on what levels to use . It was one helluva ride indeed . Just -12 only....

Heng no complaints from neighbours .

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2020, 18:28 »
The graph show pretty intense 85hz on Max Payne scene



Everything at this stage is pure air pressure

The bass is having layers in midbass and ULF, extremely satisfying, something I’ve never experienced before. I suspect the new algorithms from room perfect is doing wonders. I get a staggered type of energy moving on midbass and ulf . First time experiencing on ulf.

Playing my fav and most familiar track, true legend, confirmed this is the best I’ve heard in so many years. It was fast, precise, impactful, good transient Attack and very good decay. Playing the “well” scene, I can’t hear any ringing despite the high SPLs in midbass .

Also played the fav leaf scene, now I no longer hear the TUP TUP TUP sound but I feel the energy circulating. Doors no longer have any sound. So the decoupling exercise worked. I’m now experiencing the neutral energy from the subs, instead of the Colored sound when the subs transmits energy to the wooden structure

The sorbothane/ cork combination is very effective in isolating the subs. With the granite adding mass below the subs and the steel shots proving to be very effective resting on the subs for vibrational absorption

Today, I finally, kept the UMIK-1 mic in the store room, together with the mic stand, and the colorimeter passed on to another bro for his calibration.

Sad to say, I believe my HT journey has reached its destination . There is nothing left for me to tweak. It’s now time for me to sit back, enjoy and reap the benefits of the hard work

End Game.....part of the journey, is the end....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2020, 23:23 »
Managed to squeeze in some time today, kids were busy in the room preparing something for Father’s Day, so I im barred from going in. Mrs busy with korean drama. So just nice Sunday afternoon for me to test out how the line source 10” woofers were coping when I playback high ulf scene in the hall.

First played the lone survivor gear up scene , it has very intense 6hz . I wanted to see how the seas were coping, so I played back at MV -13, 20hz will easily hit 130db at MV -10



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/SWikW5LpQCk&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/SWikW5LpQCk&fs=1</a>

Fuu...... damn nice laaaaa . 10” Drivers not bad can handle...

Then I go next stage, the Incredible Hulk fight scene, this was played back at MV-18. At Mv-18, it was averaging 125db, down to 10hz



Check out the seas line source, 10” Drivers cruising... At 1/2 the volume, subs were all able to handle, damn syok !! Later I discovered some tightening of screws required on the older pair, can hear a bit of sound during heavy excursions down ulf

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GFQw57jTZmo&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/GFQw57jTZmo&fs=1</a>

Then I wanted to see how it feels on oblivion library rope break scene

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Aclf2VvTiJk&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Aclf2VvTiJk&fs=1</a>

At MV-10, hardly any excursion, it’s more from upper midbass down to midbass and Low bass and that’s all. All these without BEQ today

At this stage I was chatting with other members and Next up, bro NGSK told me hoot World War Z time stamp 1:05:40

And I started off at MV -15 to test the sweeping bass, damn syok !! Beats the oblivion library rope break scene hands down for sweeping bass



Imagine playing this at reference! Will be 140db easily! Lol

This will be my go to scene moving forward for sweeping bass, when I get it ready for BEQ remux .

From my observations, the lower end frequency ULF region has somewhat softened with isolation, energy no longer transmits through the floor. the entire bass  energy is felt, and the entire 125db is pure tactile air pressure, totally different league

Nothing rattled at home, thank god. Entire hall is full of pressure, 6mx8m hall, intense!

Also had the opportunity to test the video on this world war z movie, Tekno3d mastered in 6000 nits

The HDR video on the BenQ looks fantastic after the calibration with vertex2 . Totally love the HDR now . Zombie faces look realistic and scary, add the intense bass and within 5 mins I started feeling kan cheong all over again! I would have loved to continue, but had to stop to get dinner



The best of the best now, midbass, ulf, atmos, HDR... Purifi , all very nice . Glad all is good. Seas need not be high pass filtered

If there is one take away, my advise to members is “NEVER EVER USE HIGH PASS LOW PASS COMBINATIONS”, it is best to avoid . I used to do this with high pass KK and Low pass rythmik, this approach is so wrong. Back then I didn’t have the experience . Best get identical subs, and let it roll off naturally ... best !






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 08:30 by ronildoq »

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2020, 20:58 »
Nice video, line source and line array

Enjoy the video!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7bwU5HagoQo&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/7bwU5HagoQo&fs=1</a>

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Re: Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2020, 08:39 »
Came across this, thought I’d share... lol

Horizontal array !







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2935
Journey resumes - Line source VS Point source
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2020, 16:45 »
With some available time during weekends, I attempted to DIY my own speaker cables for the line array subs.

Using the leftover speakon cables from seatons subs, I checked through some videos on YouTube and read through some sites on how to diy some cables

It is a known fact in the audio community, that having speaker cables with 11awg wire gauge size is more than sufficient and ideal . Combining dual 14awg cables provide 11awg

It is also know that speakon connectors are one of the best, followed by locking-type banana plugs, then sawtooth/spades

So I attempted this diy project for the DIY subs, working on the best possible way to connect the line array woofers instead of using just bare wires

I strip the wires, then twist them as such to prevent it working as an antenna



Then I use rather thick locking type banana plugs



These can accommodate very thick wire gauge down to 8awg



So I put in some sleeve and heat shrink



And then proceeded to use the heat gun

I use another layer of sleeve in the end product



Quite a fun journey, first time diy own speaker cables

As I’ve found out, the bare wires connecting the subs previously, has somewhat corroded

Lesson from this journey, avoid bare wires , use locking type bananas instead, or speakon

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 17:09 by ronildoq »

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal