Author Topic: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector  (Read 7724 times)

Offline desray

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Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« on: January 21, 2020, 22:20 »


Finally getting my hands on a true laser-based 4K UHD Projector...
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 22:22 by desray »

Offline Audio

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 00:47 »
Congrats....  :)

But I thought you don't like Sony....   LOL

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Offline desray

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Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 06:31 »
Congrats....  :)

But I thought you don't like Sony....   LOL

(Audio)

Thanks Bro Audio, I do cycle between the 2 brands from time to time. See which brand gives me value for money and get me closer to the laser route. Apparently SONY caught my attention or should I say the recent visit to SD caught my attention and thanks to Sammy’s recommendation, I get a taste of the new 870ES in action. I’m actually about to set my eyes on the 2 yrs plus generation (760ES) but I did not have the opportunity to see it “in action” as SD only have 870ES for demo. I was rather impressed by the overall picture quality, the use of ARC-F 18 true glass len assembly does make the picture pin sharp. Something I never see in a projector after all these years.

The last time I audition a laser projector from SONY was the Uber expensive 5000ES. That’s almost 3 yrs ago. The price of laser has gone down “a little” though not by much for an average joe’s humble income (such as myself).


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« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 06:37 by desray »

Offline Audio

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2020, 10:03 »
Thanks Bro Audio, I do cycle between the 2 brands from time to time. See which brand gives me value for money and get me closer to the laser route. Apparently SONY caught my attention or should I say the recent visit to SD caught my attention and thanks to Sammy’s recommendation, I get a taste of the new 870ES in action. I’m actually about to set my eyes on the 2 yrs plus generation (760ES) but I did not have the opportunity to see it “in action” as SD only have 870ES for demo. I was rather impressed by the overall picture quality, the use of ARC-F 18 true glass len assembly does make the picture pin sharp. Something I never see in a projector after all these years.

The last time I audition a laser projector from SONY was the Uber expensive 5000ES. That’s almost 3 yrs ago. The price of laser has gone down “a little” though not by much for an average joe’s humble income (such as myself).
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Oh....Sammy's recommendation.  LOL!!   Sony Singapore so lucky to have him.

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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2020, 19:07 »
Wahhh!! Congrats desray ! Sony 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻, good stuff good choice

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 08:12 »
Thanks Bro Audio, I do cycle between the 2 brands from time to time. See which brand gives me value for money and get me closer to the laser route. Apparently SONY caught my attention or should I say the recent visit to SD caught my attention and thanks to Sammy’s recommendation, I get a taste of the new 870ES in action. I’m actually about to set my eyes on the 2 yrs plus generation (760ES) but I did not have the opportunity to see it “in action” as SD only have 870ES for demo. I was rather impressed by the overall picture quality, the use of ARC-F 18 true glass len assembly does make the picture pin sharp. Something I never see in a projector after all these years.

The last time I audition a laser projector from SONY was the Uber expensive 5000ES. That’s almost 3 yrs ago. The price of laser has gone down “a little” though not by much for an average joe’s humble income (such as myself).


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Bro, congrats on your new toy. Moving up to high end display huh? How many years warranty is it? Just make sure you will be taken care of through after sales and Sony support.

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 08:25 »
Bro, congrats on your new toy. Moving up to high end display huh? How many years warranty is it? Just make sure you will be taken care of through after sales and Sony support.

It’s 5 yrs from Sony (Singapore). Peace of mind. I have mentioned many times in the past that laser projector is the final route that I will eventually take. So it’s not a surprise. The only surprise is I didn’t expect to get it so fast.



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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 08:30 »
Congrats Des to your new found love
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Offline whitesox

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 10:47 »
It’s 5 yrs from Sony (Singapore). Peace of mind. I have mentioned many times in the past that laser projector is the final route that I will eventually take. So it’s not a surprise. The only surprise is I didn’t expect to get it so fast.



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Sony lover here.. I wonder how much is it?

Offline eggz

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 11:14 »
Congrats Des! sounds like an awesome PJ!

Offline alzda23

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 11:24 »
Hi Desray

Looking for some opinions, currently am using a Long throw Sony PJ, thinking of jumping into laser based PJ. I am still leaning towards Sony PJ but recent years we saw introduction of UST laser projectors from north. What would be your consideration factor between UST and the below if price GAP for Sony UST to be lowered? Anything we would miss out in terms of picture quality or ?

Sony UST looks nice and seems to save hassle mounting. But they do inflict a bigger hole in the pockets...



Finally getting my hands on a true laser-based 4K UHD Projector...

Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 12:08 »
Hi Desray

Looking for some opinions, currently am using a Long throw Sony PJ, thinking of jumping into laser based PJ. I am still leaning towards Sony PJ but recent years we saw introduction of UST laser projectors from north. What would be your consideration factor between UST and the below if price GAP for Sony UST to be lowered? Anything we would miss out in terms of picture quality or ?

Sony UST looks nice and seems to save hassle mounting. But they do inflict a bigger hole in the pockets...

I’m a tinkerer meaning I like to do calibration and decide for myself what’s the best PQ I can achieve for a Projector. You can’t do that on a UST laser based projector. If SONY UST is able to reach a reasonable price range and you dun buy into this calibration thinghy, then yes, it is worth it, otherwise projector is still the way to go for more control over your PQ.



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Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 12:11 »
Sony lover here.. I wonder how much is it?

MSRP is about $37K.



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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 12:54 »
Unlike Desray, I am not a projector tweaker.   I have never need to tweak because my Sony projectors comes OK right out of the box.

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Offline sypderman88

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 12:58 »
Congrats bro...4k laser with very good quality lens is the way to go especially image stability..sharpness, lack of image noise (JVC is prone to this) and wide color gamut spectrum....For the black level, if pj have proper laser dimming algorithm, it is actually close to the naked eyes to JVC....

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2020, 15:35 »
Congrats Desray. happened so fast.  :)
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Offline ralfale

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2020, 17:32 »
Share some pics to let us drool

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 19:40 »
Already Looking forward to your review on this PJ, especially on HDR and the quality on tone mapping

Definitely need to check it out with the Tekno3d files, straight away can tell the class

Offline desray

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Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2020, 06:58 »
Congrats Desray. happened so fast.  :)

It all started off with my JL Audio replacement program. For the longest time, I’ve tried to resist going to Adelphi in fear that I will be “poisoned”. True enough. I’ve got lots of thoughts going in my mind before I decided to get the Sony. I love the PQ of my JVC N7 but the JVC core sales team of today is not on par with the previous team led by James back then. The merge between Kenwood and JVC with most of the core sales team coming from the car audio, they are simply not responsive when I first email them regarding the availability a year ago. And of course not forgetting the whole fiasco in the JVC thread that really left me with a very negative impression. But all these so-called “human” problems can be cast aside whenever I saw the awesome PQ produced by the N7. And now with the recent introduction of the new feature called “FrameAdapt HDR”, HDR content is even better now with dynamic scene to scene tone mapping. Simply amazing to say the least.

My only wish for JVC Singapore (especially) going forward is to get their act together and put more heart and soul in what they do for their projector division. This is a classic case of a good product that falls into the wrong hands of a marketing team that is not doing any justice to the product. They got a gem in their hands and they don’t even know.

Just imagined, the N series was launched in late 2018. It has past a full year mark and Singapore only have so limited quantity of the N series. This is appalling and sad. Even a die hard fan of JVC will tell you that this is absurd. Even till this day, I have members PM me asking where they can get their hands on a N7 which in my opinion is more value for money and better built than N5 and my answer to them is always the same, pls check with Econav which is the exclusive distributor of JVC N series projector here in Singapore. Furthermore, Econav is able to provide 2 yrs of official warranty from JVC Singapore and there is NO OTHER LOCAL DEALER here that I know of is able to match that. So I urged most of them to wait for the stock to come in. Problem is, you will have to play the waiting game. For how long? I dunno but eventually it will happen.

All these stuff going on in my mind, I knew I have to make a decision. It’s fast but the decision making process is not as it takes a full year to mull over. 



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« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 07:04 by desray »

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2020, 09:23 »
Nice, i have been to SD's new HT showroom. i was so impressed and it IS very poisonous. you go Adelphi walk pass every level, no way anyone can miss that BIG Screen, one must treat themselves to walk in to see what is 4K LASER PJ can do.
 
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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2020, 14:08 »
Nice, i have been to SD's new HT showroom. i was so impressed and it IS very poisonous. you go Adelphi walk pass every level, no way anyone can miss that BIG Screen, one must treat themselves to walk in to see what is 4K LASER PJ can do.
 

You sounded like you are either using it or interested to get one?

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2020, 19:54 »
Nice, i have been to SD's new HT showroom. i was so impressed and it IS very poisonous. you go Adelphi walk pass every level, no way anyone can miss that BIG Screen, one must treat themselves to walk in to see what is 4K LASER PJ can do.

Surely we will enjoy but before knowing
MSRP is about $37K...  ;D
It is 5 times of my budget for PJ..

You need to bring your own water if you want to stay longer there for a demo... Very dry
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 19:57 by whitesox »

Offline desray

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Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2020, 09:52 »


Initial impression
OOTB white balance is off. At the default D65K reference level. There is simply too much "red" push in the lower IRE. This needs to be corrected. If you ever find your image has a "red" hue in dark scenes, you know you will need to do a proper calibration to get things right. After White Balance, Grayscale tracking and colorimetry (Chromacity test) are the 2 most important tweaks to get everything in place.

My i1 Display 3 seems to have some fungus growing inside the lens  :'( As such, I may need to purchase another one for the calibration to be more accurate.

Update:
Just purchased a new meter for $600+. I will redo the calibration again. Anyway, I have completed the calibration earlier this morning using the existing i1 Display Pro (assuming they fungus in the lens isn’t affecting the final results).

In brief, Delta E (Ae) for my grayscale is about 2.40 thereabouts. As long as it is below 4.0, it’s considered good. For the chromacity test, it exceeds  the 4.0 threshold but it should not have an impact during normal viewing. The P3 colour is about 74.6% (measured) but Rec709 (measured) is about 99.3% which is near perfect. I will share more when I redo my calibration when the new meter arrives.


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« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 17:19 by desray »

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2020, 17:48 »
Some screencaps on the 4K/60fps Gemini Man. My iPhone XS Max doesn't do justice to the PQ and I'm using 2x optical zoom which makes the image slightly softer. Not as powerful as iPhone 11 camera lens but this is the best I can do.


Click to zoom in


Click to zoom in


Click to zoom in

Gamma Settings
Gamma setting is extremely important to reveal the shadow details. Look at the creases on Will Smith's shirt and the surroundings to get a good sense of what gamma setting to use. For this Sony projector, the correct setting should be 2.2. At 2.4, there is some slight black crush. If you find the Gamma 2.2 setting a tad flat, you can use "Low" setting in the Contrast Enhancer option to increase pop without crushing the blacks.


Click to zoom in


Click to zoom in

More to come...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 17:50 by desray »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2020, 19:06 »
How is the HDR10 quality on this one ? The tone mapping quality from the Pj ?

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2020, 01:35 »
You sounded like you are either using it or interested to get one?

Nope. Not for me at that price. I am contented with my current 4K PJ.
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Offline whitesox

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2020, 07:44 »
Some screencaps on the 4K/60fps Gemini Man. My iPhone XS Max doesn't do justice to the PQ and I'm using 2x optical zoom which makes the image slightly softer. Not as powerful as iPhone 11 camera lens but this is the best I can do.


Click to zoom in


Click to zoom in

Gamma Settings
Gamma setting is extremely important to reveal the shadow details. Look at the creases on Will Smith's shirt and the surroundings to get a good sense of what gamma setting to use. For this Sony projector, the correct setting should be 2.2. At 2.4, there is some slight black crush. If you find the Gamma 2.2 setting a tad flat, you can use "Low" setting in the Contrast Enhancer option to increase pop without crushing the blacks.


Click to zoom in


Click to zoom in

More to come...

Hi bro,
I am not sure whether it is due to my Samsung LED monitor but I think
It (skin tone) looks towards the reddish-yellow picture.

What do you think?

Offline desray

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Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2020, 08:36 »
Hi bro,
I am not sure whether it is due to my Samsung LED monitor but I think
It (skin tone) looks towards the reddish-yellow picture.

What do you think?

I’m waiting for my new colorimeter to do another round of calibration. But in terms of white balance, the delta error is well below 3.0. In layman terms, the primaries and secondaries should be fairly accurate. However we are unable to account for Sony’s proprietary Triliminous effects on the colorimeter. Triluminous colors are wider than REC 709 and can go beyond P3-DCI making the colors redder than red or yellower than yellow in certain respect. The Gemini man is a 4K rip but downscaled from 10bit HDR to 8bit SDR. Hence Color space has changed to a certain extent. Until I get my hands on the new colorimeter can I see how far my old colorimeter deviates from the standards. The current colorimeter seems to have some fungus formation within the lens housing hence accuracy may or may not be affected.

The display you are viewing the screen cap also plays an important part. Is your display monitor properly calibrated etc. Many variables to consider.


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Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2020, 14:05 »
Some members have asked me about the review for this Projector...The new colorimeter just arrived today.

I have actually completed the first round of calibration on the 2nd day of CNY. Anyway, just to give you guys a hint...this is either the easiest Projector to calibrate or the hardest, depending on what you want to achieve here. For me, this is about the hardest projector for me to do a calibration. The color and gamma kept drifting despite the fact that I've got a good grayscale tracking. Laser illumination is part of the problem as it is a solution for better HDR PQ.

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2020, 10:34 »
I have completed my full calibration for my VW870ES with the new meter yesterday. Results is now much better for Rec709 compared to last time (I did on the 2nd day of the CNY). I will share more of my calibration settings real soon.

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2020, 16:14 »
Review on Sony VPL-VW870ES - PART 1

I have completed all my calibrations for my Sony VPL-VW870ES. I will focus on what I have discovered so far. But here's some background. I bought this Display set from Sound Decisions just before CNY period. OOTB impression was the colors are definitely off (not accurate) as it exhibited a strong "red push" when set at Reference mode. It is a "must" to do calibrations to get the best out of this beast and do not be fooled that this is a "flagship" projector and Sony have calibrated from the factory floor.



Initial Impression - Before Calibration
Take note that the lamp hours for my unit is around 540hrs when I started the calibration process, hence it will have a “different” reading compared to say a relatively new unit with less than 10hrs or so.  Before any calibration, I will need to find a another Preset that allows a more “manageable range” to work on. I have selected Custom 3 which is pretty close to D65 but with much less Red in it. While OOTB colors are off, it is relatively easy to correct it. With a little tweaking to the White Balance (RGB) points, I am able to get the Primary Colors (Red/Green/Red) within the Delta E of below 3.0. As a general rule of thumb, any Delta E that hovers in the range of 3.0 and 4.0 is considered fine and virtually imperceptible by human visions. The average Delta E was about 4.28. Average grayscale reading is about 4.2 (not too bad). The Color Temp is around 6,785 Kelvin (D65). I am using the Reference Preset where D65 colors is the default setting.

For Gamma, the OOTB readings is on the low side of 1.65. This greatly reduce the perceived Contrast, making it less “pop-up”. The colorspace is BT709. You can see that the White point (representing D65), Blue and Cyan (Secondary Color) are spot-on even without any calibration. Yellow and Green falls short a bit with Yellow leaning abit towards the Green hue while Green did not hit the Reference level (but not too far). Red is fine. Overall, I have to say that the OOTB PQ is quite good and I do not see any large deviation from the Chromacity Chart (CIE1931).



After Calibration
After calibration, I have managed to get the White Balance points to below 3.0 for Delta E but this ultimately have an effect on the overall Gamma readings. If you are a calibrator, you will know Colors (R/G/B/C/M/Y), White Balance (R/G/B), Grayscale (a subset of Colors and White Balance) affects the Gamma readings. It is somewhat frustrating to learn that while I get a good balance for both White Balance and the Grayscale, it was a at the expense of the accuracy of the Chromacity (Colors) and Gamma. As Gamma ulitmately affects Contrast Ratio and hence our perception of OLED-like Picture Quality that most of us yearned for, I have no choice but to sacrifice some of the White Balance and Grayscale tracking in favor for a more accurate color (hues and saturation) and a higher Gamma reading. Eventually I am able to get the Gamma to increase to around 1.95 from the average of 1.64, though still not ideal, I am able to trick the Projector to read close to 2.2 by using a combination of both the laser dimming module and the built-in Iris setting (Full/Limited/Off) alongside with the Contrast Enhancer feature. Together they formed what Sony termed as Dual Contrast Control. The predecessor (VW760ES) lacks the Dynamic Iris and rely chiefly on the laser dimming to achieve a higher Contrast level. With the new Dynamic Iris and the Contrast Enhancer feature, VW870ES can achieve “deeper” blacks compared to VW760ES.

Trade-offs/Compromises
As I have mentioned earlier, there are some compromises to be made here, By setting the Laser output to 70 instead of the default 80, Dynamic Iris set to “Full” and Contrast Enhancer set to “Low”, I am able to get a reasonable good Gamma tracking of around 2.1 which is very close to the ideal 2.2. The downside of using this Dual Contrast Control settings comes at a price where there will be a significant push in Blue. The Red also took a corresponding hit in the IRE40 to IRE90 region. Only Green is near perfect. End result is the Color Temp increased to 6,832 (making it “cooler” than the D65). Because of the compromises made to the White Balance, the Grayscale tracking overshot the Delta E value of less than 3.0 and this ulitmately overshot the Delta E by 0.6 making it to 3.6 though still within the 4.0. Unfortunately, there is an inherent limitations for this Projector to achieve near-perfect Delta Es for White Balance, Grayscale, Colormetry (Chormacity) and Gamma. I read that Sony has a calibration of its own that can make finer adjustments to make the calibration to near-perfect but this calibration software is not made available for the general public as far as I know.

Verdict on the BT709 using Reference Preset (After Calibration)
Charts and statistics only formed part of the “picture” (pun intended). Real-time assessment of the picture quality still matters the most. Although there is some imperfection in the areas I had described above. The image quality is majestic and stunningly “realistic” especially when you watched 4K content with HDR. I have never seen such a pin-sharp image quality from a Projector before. The constant light output from the laser diode really helps in providing a very consistent image without a hint of flickering. Normal bluray imagery is near-4K quality and screams quality.  Sony’s triluminous color spectrum provides around 91.3% of the P3-DCI color spectrum within a BT2020 colorspace while BT709 scores a gorgeous 102% of the P3-DCI spectrum. This is very impressive in my opinion.

How is the Black Levels?
I guess many members are yearning to know how the Black levels performs for the Sony flagship projector. My verdict on this is – not as good as the JVC N7 which I have owned last year. In terms of black levels, JVC still reigns in this area but that is not to say that Sony VW870ES is far behind. On the contrary, the lower lumens (2,200) actually allows us to have better black level control as opposed to a super bright lumen projector like the uber-expesnive VW5000ES which literally can make you squint your eyes in a very dark viewing room. And because of this lower lumen (same as most normal JVC based DiLA projectors), black levels and shadow details can be more precise in its measurements with consumer-grade colorimeter like the X-Rite iDisplay 3 Pro that I am using for the calibration.

Cinema Mode 1 – Optimized for HDR viewing
I have decided to calibrate for a custom P3-DCI mode just for 4K rips with SDR BT2020 (downconverted from HDR) at 8-bit. For those struggling with sufficient light output for your lamp-based projector, you can try this method. To retain richer color palettes which is greater than the normal BT709, P3-DCI mode is one way to make your 4K HDR content brighter without sacrificing on 4K sharpness in image details and richer colors.

No Auto-Tone mapping
Sadly Sony did not implement JVC style of Dynamic-Tone Mapping (DTM) styled, “Frame-by-Frame Adpative HDR”. JVC is the ONLY manufacturer in the Projector community that came up with this brilliant feature which really makes 4K HDR content shine in every respect! I am hoping Sony can up the game by introducing their own version of the DTM feature. If so, it will be perfect! Let’s not forget that the Sony VW870ES cost more than 3 times of JVC N7. The value proposition for JVC is simply amazing! The only drawback is that JVC N7 still a lamp-based projector which has a higher maintenance cost and susceptible to color and gamma shift over time as the lamp dims.

Part 2 coming soon...Watch for it.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 22:49 by desray »

Offline MatJenin

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2020, 21:56 »
Congratulations on your purchase!
Looking forward to your sharing on the results of your calibration journey! I am sure I could benefit tremendously from your sharing. Got mine from SD when the PJ first reached our shore... :)
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Offline Amon86

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2020, 14:17 »
Wa...my dream projector if only i could strike toto which is lol.... 37k for a projector is alot of sparechange could use it to upgrade my fronts to a Kef blade 2 or Focal Scala Utopia Evo hope that few years later will come to a price of 20k i willingly to pay maxed for a laser projector

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2020, 06:41 »
Wa...my dream projector if only i could strike toto which is lol.... 37k for a projector is alot of sparechange could use it to upgrade my fronts to a Kef blade 2 or Focal Scala Utopia Evo hope that few years later will come to a price of 20k i willingly to pay maxed for a laser projector

I will come to say that this is the PERFECT projector as HDR calibration is a challenge up to this point, particularly in the Colorspace and the gamma. HDR requires proper tone mapping to look its best, unfortunately SONY does not have the JVC kind of auto tone mapping which makes HDR a hit or miss. When it comes to SDR at 8-bit, Sony literally wins at every aspect albeit the black levels not nearly as good as the renowned Blacks of JVC.



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Offline Amon86

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2020, 11:46 »
I will come to say that this is the PERFECT projector as HDR calibration is a challenge up to this point, particularly in the Colorspace and the gamma. HDR requires proper tone mapping to look its best, unfortunately SONY does not have the JVC kind of auto tone mapping which makes HDR a hit or miss. When it comes to SDR at 8-bit, Sony literally wins at every aspect albeit the black levels not nearly as good as the renowned Blacks of JVC.

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Can the black level be improve as getting those stewart projector screen that cost as much as 10k? or those ambient light rejection screen? I heard from avs forums that the colour base can be custom and upload it to your projector via using a computer to copy the existing one before overwritting with a custom made by users

Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2020, 12:08 »
Can the black level be improve as getting those stewart projector screen that cost as much as 10k? or those ambient light rejection screen? I heard from avs forums that the colour base can be custom and upload it to your projector via using a computer to copy the existing one before overwritting with a custom made by users

Not sure about uploading of custom settings. But if it’s possible like JVC, then we will need SONY proprietary calibration software to do it.

Black levels no matter how you tweaked will not get as good as JVC blacks. But I will say it’s quite near. Using a ALR screen rejects ambient lights but does not necessarily improve the black levels.



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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2020, 12:13 »
Have you experimented with the Vertex2 to spoof HDMI HDCP handshaking to get Dolby Vision LLDV
End of Line - Derezzed

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2020, 19:22 »
Have you experimented with the Vertex2 to spoof HDMI HDCP handshaking to get Dolby Vision LLDV

What for???


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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2020, 23:10 »
That gives u dynamic HDR - for some reason they say it gives improved contrast

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2020, 07:31 »
That gives u dynamic HDR - for some reason they say it gives improved contrast



Did a cursory reading of the postings in the link you provided...It seems to be a pet project more than anything else. Nothing concrete and I can foresee a slew of problems/issues/variables that need to take note of. Not a simple one-off solution based on my limited knowledge of how Vertex works. But thanks for sharing :)

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2020, 19:59 »
Re-watched X-Men Apocalypse this afternoon and I was blown away by the details. I couldn't help it and took some snapshots using my iPhone Xs Max. Simply put, the screencaps posted here did not do justice to the picture quality.



Here are some side-by-side comparisons of scenes in SDR and HDR mode. Look at the color gamut and the amount of details of the characters. The color palettes and skin tones for this disc can be a bit strong here...but this Sony handles with aplomb.

SDR - Magneto Scene


HDR - Magneto Scene


SDR - Magneto and Apocalypse Scene


HDR - Magneto and Apocalypse Scene


SDR - Professor X Scene


HDR - Professor X Scene



 ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 20:04 by desray »

Offline DJQ

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2020, 22:04 »
superb PQ. :o
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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2020, 21:01 »
Review on Sony VPL-VW870ES - PART 2

I did another round of calibration after stabilizing the laser for a full week. I have managed to get excellent colors and black levels this time around. Here are my revised calibration settings for both SDR and HDR. For SDR setting, I chose Reference as the Calibration Preset and Cinema 1 for HDR. Take note, this is for my projector and those who owned this model should refrain using my settings on yours lest it screwed up your PQ. Instead use it as a form of reference to see how much correction has been done to achieve the best PQ after proper calibration.



SDR Calibration Settings
Calibration Preset: Reference
Reality Creation:
Resolution: 20
Noise Filtering: 10

Cinema Black Pro:
Advanced Iris and Laser Setting:
Dynamic Control: Full
Laser Light Output: 70
Contrast Enhancer: Middle

Motion Flow: True Cinema
Contrast: Max
Brightness: 53
Color: 50
Hue: 50

Color Temp: Custom 3
Gain:
Red 20
Green: 0
Blue: -13

Bias:
Red: -1
Green: 0
Blue: 0

Sharpness: 50

Expert Setting:
NR: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Smooth Gradation: Low
Gamma Correction: 2.6

Color Correction: On
Color Select: Red
Hue: -8
Saturation: 5
Brightness: -7

Color Select: Yellow
Hue: -4
Saturation: 12
Brightness: -4

Color Select: Green
Hue: 4
Saturation: 18
Brightness: -5

Color Select: Cyan
Hue: 2
Saturation: 21
Brightness: -3

Color Select: Blue
Hue: -3
Saturation: 3
Brightness: -10

Color Select: Magenta
Hue: -11
Saturation: 5
Brightness: -4

Clear White: High
x.v.Color: Off
HDR: Auto
Color Space: BT.709
Input Lag Reduction: Off

Click here to see the (SDR) Calibration Report (PDF format)


HDR Calibration Settings
Calibration Preset: Cinema 1
Reality Creation:
Resolution: 40
Noise Filtering: 10

Cinema Black Pro:
Advanced Iris and Laser Setting:
Dynamic Control: Full
Laser Light Output: 30
Contrast Enhancer: Off

Motion Flow: True Cinema
Contrast (HDR): 80 (default is 60)
Brightness: 53
Color: 50
Hue: 50

Color Temp: D65
Gain:
Red 20
Green: 0
Blue: -20

Bias:
Red: -1
Green: 0
Blue: 3

Sharpness: 50

Expert Setting:
NR: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Smooth Gradation: Low

Color Correction: On
Color Select: Red
Hue: -5
Saturation: 2
Brightness: -7

Color Select: Yellow
Hue: -3
Saturation: 15
Brightness: -10

Color Select: Green
Hue: 0
Saturation: 34
Brightness: -12

Color Select: Cyan
Hue: 3
Saturation: 30
Brightness: -6

Color Select: Blue
Hue: -25
Saturation: 18
Brightness: -10

Color Select: Magenta
Hue: 5
Saturation: 0
Brightness: 1

Clear White: High
HDR: HDR10
Color Space: Color Space 1
Input Lag Reduction: Off

Click here to see the (HDR) Calibration Report (in PDF format)


More elaboration tmr...Stay tuned! ;)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 16:41 by desray »

Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2020, 10:11 »
Here are a couple more screenshots that really accentuate the exceptional clarity and sharpness of the picture using ARC-F lens. Some key differences from the previous screencaps I took is the change in source. This time round, I'm using MadVR on HTPC as opposed to Zidoo Z9S. MadVR dynamic tone mapping is pretty darn good imo.

Look at this shot from The Gemini Man. The details of Will Smith's skin pores, debris that stuck to his face and neck area etc...of course, more importantly, is the clean DI transfer of this movie to 4K that truly brings out the best in your display's capability. Again this is shot using an iPhone XS Max camera (Not 11 Pro).


Click here to zoom

A clip from Shazam featuring Mark Strong, the baddie. The source was Panny's DMP-UB420 featuring Panasonic's proprietary HDR Optimizer algorithm.

SDR image


HDR image


Some interesting take on the SDR and HDR comparisons. In HDR, the skin tones took on more strong hues (thanks to the DCI-P3 color gamut which gets around 87% of BT2020 and what's more impressive is the fact that Sony didn't use any color filter to achieve that that P3 color range when compared to JVC N7 which requires a color filter). In terms of color fidelity and brilliance, as long as it is properly calibrated, both JVC N7 and Sony VW870ES come pretty close. JVC N7 inevitably will take a hit in light output (lumens) after using the DCI-P3 color filter...but with JVC proprietary frame-by-frame HDR optimizer algorithm, it can hold its candle against the more expensive Sony. I have to say that Sony's black levels have improved leaps and bounds over the years, especially in this new VW870ES using Dual Contrast Control - i.e. the addition of using a DI to further increase the perceived Contrast Ratio (CR). And still, JVC wins hands-down when it comes to black levels but Sony (after calibration) is definitely not too far behind...Well done Sony.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 10:45 by desray »

Offline kaaga

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2020, 02:57 »
 Very good review! I'm the owner of this projector myself and I'm going to test out your calibration settings.
Is there a type error in your Sony HDR calibration settings? Laser Level in HDR is only 30? Normally in HDR the more lumens the better? Can You explain please?

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2020, 20:50 »
Very good review! I'm the owner of this projector myself and I'm going to test out your calibration settings.
Is there a type error in your Sony HDR calibration settings? Laser Level in HDR is only 30? Normally in HDR the more lumens the better? Can You explain please?

Not a typo error. The reason why I set to 30 for Laser Light Output for "HDR content" is because of the notorious bug that plagued all SONY projectors right now - i.e. the "blotchy patches" that surfaced in dimly lited scenes (low APL). This only affects HDR and I found that by lowering the laser output to 40 or less coupled with Smooth Gradient set to "Low" or "Middle" helps to minimize (bit not eliminate) those unsightly blotches. There is currently no solution and I'm waiting for Sony to fix this. The only solution (at least for me) is to engage HDR>SDR with gamut-mapping at BT2020. In 4K SDR BT2020, there is no such video anomaly.

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Re: Sony VPL-VW870ES/VPL-VW995ES 4K Laser Projector
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2020, 22:33 »
Today I re-did my HDR calibration for my Projector using a different Input (Cinema Space 1). One of my gripes about Sony Projector is the "posterization" artefacts present during dark scenes. It only affect 4K HDR content and not SDR. Today, I changed some settings which helped in minimize/eliminate the "posterization" anomaly by a great extent. In my case, I no longer have this issue (at least for my projector and I can't say whether it works for VW760ES users). Here are my settings:

Under Brightness Control Setting
- Use the Spears & Munsil 4K HDR Evaluation Disc. Make sure select 600nits and BT2020 as the color primaries. Next go to Basic Video Calibration segment and bring up the Brightness test pattern. Make sure you are able to see the checkerboard pattern in the background by slowly bringing up the Brightness level until you see it. This is to allow the display to see BTB details. After adjustment, I ended up with "55" (your figure may vary depending on what you see on the Brightness test pattern). Make sure the Projector is displaying 4K HDR.

Under Contrast (HDR) Setting
- Adjust the setting accordingly to obtain a vibrant and dynamic image quality as opposed to the use of Contrast Enhancer which tends to blow out the specular highlights (clipping). I ended up with "65". Again this may vary as it depends on your setting on the Brightness level.

Under Cinema Black Pro Setting
- Set the Contrast Enhancer to "Low". Low setting is a good compromise between "Off" and dynamic detail presentation of the image.
- Set the Laser brightness level to around "40".
- Choose "Full" for Dynamic Iris

Under the Expert Setting
- Turn "off" Smooth Gradation

With the above modifications made, I have successfully eliminated at least 97% of the posterization anomaly. For those using thie Projector or the VW760ES, if you are like me, facing some posterization issue with the Sony projector, you can try the abovementioned settings to see if it helps. Give it a try today...STILL, you need to properly calibrate the Projector to obtain the best image.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 22:36 by desray »

 

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