Author Topic: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...  (Read 10564 times)

Offline rayleh

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2020, 15:42 »
So that is to say the Audyssey app with house curve DOES compliment with miniDSP in your case? If so, that’s great news.



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Yes, it does at least for me. You can tweak the subs before you run Audyssey which I did for my case. I know there are some people who will run Audyessy and then use the miniDsp to fine-tune the subs.


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Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2020, 15:43 »
I will like to clarify that With DEQ engages, one can still achieve very good sound and bass response except for the lower frequency region where most of us feel Audyssey EQ have overdone it, meaning flatten from 10Hz to 22KHz. If your room has a particular “room gain” to take advantage, you can try this method (No DEQ but built your own house curve) to see if it works for you, otherwise use DEQ for better sound overall.



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Offline desray

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Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2020, 15:48 »
Yes, it does at least for me. You can tweak the subs before you run Audyssey which I did for my case. I know there are some people who will run Audyessy and then use the miniDsp to fine-tune the subs.


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Not true, what you did is correct and I will do the same as well. You can use either a REW with Umik1 or miniDSP to measure the non Audyssey EQ frequency response for your subwoofers to get a good sense of where to place the subwoofers  to avoid standing waves or null position. Once that is done, then proceed to do Audyssey calibration. This will definitely take the guess work out of the equation even BEFORE you commence your Audyssey calibration.



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Offline depechefan

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2020, 17:16 »
Hi,

Thanks for this information. I tried to follow the guide to create a house curve to use in the Audyssey app. Boosting bass by 3 db at 20 and 50 Hz. This to me gives a much more natural sound than using DEQ. So I have 3 questions:

  • Is it still normal to have to increase the level of the centre speaker? I still like to get a little dialog/vocal enhancement
  • I've read about the midrange compensation. I don't understand the use of this. It seems counter-intuitive to me to enable this when I have the need to raise the level of the centre speaker...?
  • Is there still a need to use DEQ when you make these manual changes? It sounds like people are still enabling it. I prefer not to - especially for music (surround music) because I experience that details are lost

Thanks again. I am so far loving the new target curve!

/M

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2020, 18:52 »
Is it still normal to have to increase the level of the centre speaker? I still like to get a little dialog/vocal enhancement
Ans: You can either engage Dialog Enhancer and set it to "Medium" for more clarity in dialog OR you can try to set Dynamic Volume to "Light".

I've read about the midrange compensation. I don't understand the use of this. It seems counter-intuitive to me to enable this when I have the need to raise the level of the centre speaker...?
Ans: If you have a good pair of speakers with a relatively flat response; there is really no need to use Mid-range Compensation (MRC).

Is there still a need to use DEQ when you make these manual changes? It sounds like people are still enabling it. I prefer not to - especially for music (surround music) because I experience that details are lost.
Ans: Yes, you can disable DEQ altogether once you implement the house curve.

Offline depechefan

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2020, 00:54 »
Thanks for the answers, desray. Haven't yet measured with REW but curious to see what my graph looks like now :-)

Trying to decide if I should use a 4 or 5 db boost. Probably prefer 4 for music and 5 for movies :-)

/M

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2020, 08:58 »
Thanks for the answers, desray. Haven't yet measured with REW but curious to see what my graph looks like now :-)

Trying to decide if I should use a 4 or 5 db boost. Probably prefer 4 for music and 5 for movies :-)

/M

I'm using a +6db boost at the moment.

When measuring with REW, make sure you disable Audyssey first before you get subwoofer readings from a few seating positions. Average out the readings. Thereafter engage Audyssey and then take another reading...making sure there is no "major" null or spike at the modal frequency range. If you have good LCR speakers, limit the frequency range to around 300Hz or 500Hz max...and let the speakers take over. Anything beyond that, the room mode will take over and sometimes, it is for the best. Experiment - trial and error...

Offline depechefan

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2020, 16:14 »
Thanks for the tips. Will measure this in the next couple of days. Do you add the same boost to the centre channel? I've only done it for LR + sub at this point. Sounds good to my ears but just wondering.

/M

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2020, 18:49 »
Thanks for the tips. Will measure this in the next couple of days. Do you add the same boost to the centre channel? I've only done it for LR + sub at this point. Sounds good to my ears but just wondering.

/M

No.

Offline depechefan

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2020, 18:15 »
So I've been measuring my sub in the position I found to be the best. I tried your suggestion and measured 4 different positions. I must say that I get some very poor results depending on my seating position so I will need to think about where to place it again. I can share the graphs for the different positions later. It probably also illustrates very well why I need another sub.

If I concentrate on the main listening position then it's a little surprising to me that there isn't a bigger difference between the manual implementation and the default Audyssey graph. These are my results:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aly2HCHRkhMrjZoOjLFIaXKmRJ7M6A?e=OiDWTE

The bottom one is Audyssey with DEQ turned off, the purple one is my manually created one with a bass boost of 5 db at 20 and 50 Hz. The green one is Audyssey default with DEQ off-set at 15 db and the top red one is Audyssey default with DEQ at 0 db off-set. So the default with DEQ at 15 db is almost similar to the one I implemented manually. I have not had time to do a full sweep and I haven't yet tried to listen to the different configurations. I guess I should try to cut off the default Audyssey implementation so it doesn't modify things above 500 Hz to see if that makes a positive difference.

So a little unsure where to go from here :-)

/M

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2020, 10:30 »
In my exercise recently with subwoofers and house curve, the other thing that popped up mind was there is also another way to have a natural “house curve” without using any EQ.

Suggestion would be to stack or co-locate two subwoofers at the location where bass is stronger <40hz, or below 30hz , then use a single subwoofer where it’s strong at the region > 40hz, this then provides a natural Low frequency rising curve, without the need to apply any boosting or Low shelf filters

 Methodology has been proven to be effective, Hope that helps !

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2020, 10:56 »
In my exercise recently with subwoofers and house curve, the other thing that popped up mind was there is also another way to have a natural “house curve” without using any EQ.

Suggestion would be to stack or co-locate two subwoofers at the location where bass is stronger <40hz, or below 30hz , then use a single subwoofer where it’s strong at the region > 40hz, this then provides a natural Low frequency rising curve, without the need to apply any boosting or Low shelf filters

 Methodology has been proven to be effective, Hope that helps !

Your method may need > 2 subwoofers (typical setup for most of us). 2 pairs of identical make/model of subwoofers will be ideal for it to work :)



Offline ronildoq

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2020, 22:33 »
OK, lets check out some house curve. The below are links for target curve, by Harman. Its a good starting point, there are 4 version of it:

The first, a +4db Boost
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oqShNJp24MnqbzpjZSKMelA2RP5hmIXT/view?usp=sharing

Here is how it looks


The Second, +6db Boost. (this is used and recommended by Lyngdorf)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JYdpu96G_varrrzykgPCk0mbL7RQeFHV/view?usp=sharing



The 3rd +8db
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PmWGBHwncZF_tylgytIyJHCJCzNDlCEZ/view?usp=sharing



Fourth +10db
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vZNuejl7kxz0jhedBlB0W0AwIJyaCf1N/view?usp=sharing



Thats a good starting point, these have been proven to be fav among many home listeners, esp the +8 boost target.

Enjoy testing your new target curves during CB period

Personally, i went with the +6db recommended by Lyngdorf, and i added in a secondary knee, +6db from 30 -10hz using the built in EQ curve from Seatons for ULF. So total im having a +12db, but the seatons only plays +6db from the housecurve

Photos resized to fit
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 22:38 by ronildoq »

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2020, 15:53 »
Thanks Roni for sharing...and yes, I find +6db to be the "sweet-spot". Tried +8db that indeed gave me more rumble but I have my bass shakers to take care of the tactile effects for below 20Hz.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Audyssey House Curve Revisited...
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2020, 15:55 »
Thanks Roni for sharing...and yes, I find +6db to be the "sweet-spot". Tried +8db that indeed gave me more rumble but I have my bass shakers to take care of the tactile effects for below 20Hz.
So you turn off the DEQ and add-in the House Curve?


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