Author Topic: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!  (Read 10021 times)

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2019, 08:37 »
Looks like we have 2 camps here with more preferred the DEQ to be set to “On”. This group of members (myself included) that preferred DEQ enabled probably (with the exception of a few) did not utilise an external EQ like miniDSP to tame the modal frequency for their LFE. But instead rely on Audyssey own proprietary SubHT EQ to do the work. As SubHT EQ forms part of the Audyssey suite, it usually works well with their complementary features like DEQ and Dyn Volume (provided the calibration done right).

This thread is created to gather all user experience and the reasons why one would prefer to enable or disable the DEQ. So there is no right or wrong answer. At the end of the day, it is your HT setup and you enjoy it, that’s the key.

Keep your views and comments coming. I will love to hear more from Audyssey users. I may want to make it sticky based on the quality of the discussions I have seen so far.



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Offline winwinc81

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2019, 13:07 »
From my opinion based on last time till now, When the DEQ is off, it will be beneficial running an external DSP like behringer power amp DSP model and minidsp 2x4HD.

Reason being, you will be able to have a more dominant control over the kind of bass you yourself are after. Example, a little but more rumble on the lower freq, less annoying freq, a little more bass and weight in the mids.. maybe for some don't like too much rumble (which I believe a lot of us here are the opposite), or one may prefer controlling the higher freq.. lots of way to do it.

It's the kind of details and granularity that one can tweak to their likes without the mercy of audyssey DEQ being altered when the vol is played higher or lower.

It also doesn't mean that using external EQ devices will not be able to experience the kind of rumble and effect when you lower your listening vol. Surprisingly you will still be able to experience it (rumble and mids) and at the same time (though subtly felt) the bass level is more "even" and not too "over".

It's from my opinion... Not sure if peeps here knows what I am blabbering about.

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Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2019, 13:56 »
Here's my take on DEQ...and don't worry, I'm not going into all the technical verbiage.

If you are using an external EQ device like miniDSP, I agreed that DEQ "Off" is probably a better option since PEQ has been engaged to help smooth out the bass response (from 20hz - 250hz) with higher filters applied. Anything beyond that, Audyssey should be able to take care of it. Also for those who desired a custom house curve can also do it with ease using miniDSP compared to Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Pro app which is not as robust. The only reason I've gotten the app is due to its ability to turn off/on Mid-Range Compensation (MRC) as well as to adjust the frequency range for EQ to be applied. If your speakers are audiophile grade with clear mids and highs and you don't wish to ruin it, then the app is a must-have.

Back to DEQ, the benefits of having DEQ enabled is to allow listeners whom preferred to listen at a lower volume level (say -30db to -25db below Reference Level) to still able to retain the same SPL for bass. This is important as humans tends to be more sensitive to low frequency (e.g. 30Hz and below) variation. This is why many complain about the "lack of bass" when listening at lower volume. For a well-calibrated HT setup, listening anywhere between -20db and -15db is a norm these days. By enabling DEQ, it helps to compensate the loss in relative SPL on bass when listen at lower volume. Jag had brought up a very good observation, DEQ tends to exaggerate the lower frequency to the extent which "muddle" the bass to a great extent when you listen at lower MV. This is something which unfortunately is true and I really hope Audyssey can improve in that aspect of the DEQ. Having say that, I still believe that sum of its parts is still greater than the whole. If you are able to tame the modal frequency range regardless whether you are using miniDSP or Audyssey's very own SubHT EQ, you can still benefit from DEQ enabled. You can think of DEQ as a form of Audyssey "house curve" since its objective is the SAME as building a custom "house curve" using the miniDSP - i.e. to restore the SPL of the bass when listening at lower volume - some called it "Loudness Compensation" and in Audyssey's term is called Dynamic EQ (DEQ).

My recommendation is to ensure that you get your HT setup properly calibrated, especially the subwoofers which produced the bass content. More often than not, it is not DEQ that contribute to the poor muddy or bloated bass but the room mode. This is why a miniDSP can help a long way for HT setup in a less-than-ideal room setup because of the odd room shape and layout etc. If you are blessed with a good room dimension and you follow strictly on the proper speaker/subwoofer placement (using Harman Room Mode Calculator as a basis), you can easily do away with the need to use an external EQ device like miniDSP.

For the surround being tuned "hotter" than the rest of the speakers which makes the surround sounded a bit "overwhelming"...again Audyssey theory is that humans perceive sound differently coming from the front soundstage (LCR) compared to the sides (Surrounds) and the rears (Surround Backs). I agreed that DEQ does make the Surround channels at least 1 - 2db hotter but this can be easily calibrated using test tones from say a Dolby Atmos test tones playback (Note: When you wish to tune your SPL for all your speakers to the same SPL level - e.g. 75db, PLEASE DO NOT use the the test tone emited by the AVR as it is not accurate).

I am able to listen at -25 - 20db below Reference level w/o a hint of boominess...if anything, I need to increase the MV to -15db to get the whole listening experience to a cinematic level. With DEQ turned on, there is lesser need for me to reach out to my remote controller to turn up or down the Master Volume for any content I throw at it. With DEQ disabled, you may need to re-adjust the volume level for some of the media content that is authored differently.

 ;)

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2019, 13:58 »
From my opinion based on last time till now, When the DEQ is off, it will be beneficial running an external DSP like behringer power amp DSP model and minidsp 2x4HD.

Reason being, you will be able to have a more dominant control over the kind of bass you yourself are after. Example, a little but more rumble on the lower freq, less annoying freq, a little more bass and weight in the mids.. maybe for some don't like too much rumble (which I believe a lot of us here are the opposite), or one may prefer controlling the higher freq.. lots of way to do it.

It's the kind of details and granularity that one can tweak to their likes without the mercy of audyssey DEQ being altered when the vol is played higher or lower.

It also doesn't mean that using external EQ devices will not be able to experience the kind of rumble and effect when you lower your listening vol. Surprisingly you will still be able to experience it (rumble and mids) and at the same time (though subtly felt) the bass level is more "even" and not too "over".

It's from my opinion... Not sure if peeps here knows what I am blabbering about.

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk



Of course, I'm sure most of us do. :)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2019, 22:01 »
here is some nice Q&A session from Audioholics with Chris, hear it from the horse mouth directly, good read for those who are still using audyssey:

https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/audyssey-room-eq-interview

“ Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.
Audyssey Dynamic EQ is referenced to the standard film mix level. It makes adjustments to maintain the reference response and surround envelopment when the volume is turned down from 0 dB. However, film reference level is not always used in music or other non-film content. The Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset provides three offsets from the film level reference (5 dB, 10 dB, and 15 dB) that can be selected when the mix level of the content is not within the standard.

0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting and should be used when listening to movies.
15 dB: Select this setting for pop/rock music or other program material that is mixed at very high listening levels and has a compressed dynamic range.
10 dB: Select this setting for jazz or other music that has a wider dynamic range. This setting should also be selected for TV content as that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.
5 dB: Select this setting for content that has a very wide dynamic range like classical music.”

Hope the above helps....

Offline sevenz

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2019, 10:12 »
If you are using an external EQ device like miniDSP, I agreed that DEQ "Off" is probably a better option since PEQ has been engaged to help smooth out the bass response (from 20hz - 250hz) with higher filters applied. Anything beyond that, Audyssey should be able to take care of it.

You can think of DEQ as a form of Audyssey "house curve" since its objective is the SAME as building a custom "house curve" using the miniDSP - i.e. to restore the SPL of the bass when listening at lower volume - some called it "Loudness Compensation" and in Audyssey's term is called Dynamic EQ (DEQ).

My recommendation is to ensure that you get your HT setup properly calibrated, especially the subwoofers which produced the bass content.

Similar sentiments on the above points. Great discussion topic btw, thanks desray.

+1 that the inbuilt deq by audyssey somewhat acts as a house curve, which is probably a big reason why many users who are not relying on a DSP to calibrate the bass find deq enhancing the overall bass experience at usual listening vols. Same experience for me B4 I used a dsp.

To a certain extent, I find dvol also helps in the "house curve" too. I guess the limitation with deq & dvol is, the system can be calibrated it to a certain mv. And if there are changes to listening vols or u change a certain setting on dvol, one needs to tweak the sub levels accordingly.

Another alternative approach to deq without spending much is to buy the audyssey app, cos I rem it allows us to deploy a simple house curve on the bass. And then turn off deq. This way, the bass balance can be maintained across diff listening vols at a very low cost. Simple to implement /learn too as it's within audyssey
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 10:18 by sevenz »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2019, 12:35 »

Another alternative approach to deq without spending much is to buy the audyssey app, cos I rem it allows us to deploy a simple house curve on the bass. And then turn off deq. This way, the bass balance can be maintained across diff listening vols at a very low cost. Simple to implement /learn too as it's within audyssey

+1 good idea, forgot about that. i think the newer avr allows for having your own house curve. Without an outboard eq, DEQ is preferred for sure. But given the option to house curve or set a target, i would use the app to build the house curve and switch off DEQ. Personally i like control and certainty with EQ. We dont know what EQ filters are loading / compression filters that are affecting loudness when DEQ takes over.

Then comes applying boosting EQ with filters vs shelving. Whether or not these DEQ filters are linear or min phase. When there is phase rotation, there goes your certainty. The conversion with Chris seems to suggest a +9db boost & -20db cuts.... +9db boost  ::)

Given a choice, i would still go audyssey house curve over DEQ, much better control. But if one prefers the auto approach, then DEQ is good, let the AVR manage

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2019, 15:25 »
+1 good idea, forgot about that. i think the newer avr allows for having your own house curve. Without an outboard eq, DEQ is preferred for sure. But given the option to house curve or set a target, i would use the app to build the house curve and switch off DEQ. Personally i like control and certainty with EQ. We dont know what EQ filters are loading / compression filters that are affecting loudness when DEQ takes over.

Then comes applying boosting EQ with filters vs shelving. Whether or not these DEQ filters are linear or min phase. When there is phase rotation, there goes your certainty. The conversion with Chris seems to suggest a +9db boost & -20db cuts.... +9db boost  ::)

Given a choice, i would still go audyssey house curve over DEQ, much better control. But if one prefers the auto approach, then DEQ is good, let the AVR manage

Roni, the boost and cut that Chris mentioned in some of his posts was actually referring to the maximum boost and/or cut in a peak and dip in the frequency domain. It has nothing to do with DEQ or house curve.

As for the use of Audyssey app, many did not realise that this app is not created by Audyssey but D&M , the AVR manufacturer herself. The app is an extension of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 suite and D&M provides an app for users to tinker with some of the settings which normally not provided in an AVR interface.



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Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2019, 15:30 »
+1 good idea, forgot about that. i think the newer avr allows for having your own house curve. Without an outboard eq, DEQ is preferred for sure. But given the option to house curve or set a target, i would use the app to build the house curve and switch off DEQ. Personally i like control and certainty with EQ. We dont know what EQ filters are loading / compression filters that are affecting loudness when DEQ takes over.

Then comes applying boosting EQ with filters vs shelving. Whether or not these DEQ filters are linear or min phase. When there is phase rotation, there goes your certainty. The conversion with Chris seems to suggest a +9db boost & -20db cuts.... +9db boost  ::)

Given a choice, i would still go audyssey house curve over DEQ, much better control. But if one prefers the auto approach, then DEQ is good, let the AVR manage

I think I am probably the only one that enables BOTH DEQ and Dynamic Volume concurrently in my setup.

I don’t use miniDSP or implement any custom house curve. I simply turn on DEQ to get the right amount of SPL output in the lower region of the frequency band. Dynamic Volume worked in tandem with DEQ to help ensure adequate listening level with the appropriate amount of bass output at any given volume I’m listening to. This minimises the urge to change the volume frequently because of the different content being playback.



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« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 17:03 by desray »

Offline rayleh

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2019, 16:06 »
Desray, you are not alone. I have also decided to turn on the DEQ and Dynamic Volume at Light. There are more details when I listen at low MV

Offline desray

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2019, 17:02 »
Desray, you are not alone. I have also decided to turn on the DEQ and Dynamic Volume at Light. There are more details when I listen at low MV

Ahh...finally someone :)

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2019, 17:24 »
DEQ always on for me. Audyssey feels incomplete without it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 17:28 by kaydee6 »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2019, 17:54 »
Roni, the boost and cut that Chris mentioned in some of his posts was actually referring to the maximum boost and/or cut in a peak and dip in the frequency domain. It has nothing to do with DEQ or house curve.

As for the use of Audyssey app, many did not realise that this app is not created by Audyssey but D&M , the AVR manufacturer herself. The app is an extension of Audyssey MultEQ XT32 suite and D&M provides an app for users to tinker with some of the settings which normally not provided in an AVR interface.



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Oh so that’s for the multEq xt32 filters, I thought the same FIR filters would be in use with DEQ

Offline desray

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Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2019, 18:10 »
Oh so that’s for the multEq xt32 filters, I thought the same FIR filters would be in use with DEQ

Nope. I guess you never use AVR with Audyssey EQ before? DEQ is a feature just like Dyn Volume is a feature bundled with Audyssey. If it’s a feature, it does not have an impact on the Audyssey EQ. That’s why it is an option for user to either enable or disable DEQ or Dyn Vol AFTER Audyssey has finished its calibration. DEQ dynamically “adjust” every scene (explosion) to dialog to conform to human hearing.

What Chris was trying to say was if there was ever a “major” dip (null) in a certain frequency, Audyssey will not boost anything more than 9db as it cannot be fixed due to the Room mode. The only viable solution is to move the speaker or subwoofer(s) depending on what you are measuring. For peak, Audyssey is able to tame it without much hindrance as it has an overhead of 20db to cut those nasty peaks. This is in line with most of the EQ in the modal frequency range which has a more detrimental effects if not done correctly. But most of us believe that anything beyond 500Hz range, we should not have any kind of EQ (especially with Audyssey trying to flatten the response curve of the speakers). This is especially true for anyone using a a good pair of audiophile grade speakers which also doubled up as HT speakers.

Audyssey app key feature is that it allows user to choose the maximum frequency range for Audyssey to apply those EQ filters knowing Audyssey may “do more harm than good” beyond 500Hz range.



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« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 18:15 by desray »

Offline francis wu

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Re: Audyssey Dynamic EQ, should I enable or disable it?!
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2019, 19:25 »
Mine is ‘OFF’ as it muddles the dialogue and a little echoic....YMMV :)

 

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