Author Topic: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound  (Read 4286 times)

Offline desray

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2019, 20:09 »
I think sometimes we just need to "really" sit down and get to enjoy our fruits of labor. Striving to achieve perfection is neigh impossible...our home is not an anechoic chamber but with off shapes and different furnishings etc...but we can do is to do our best to optimise the HT experience using whatever tools, skill sets and knowledge we have.

Online kennyluck2000

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2019, 01:49 »
If I may share my findings regarding TS question on flat graph and how it sounds.

Many who know me know I depend heavily on measurements to fine tune the tonal balance of my system. This is even more important for a full diy active setup where is no baseline voicing or tonal balance like a commercial speaker.

The challenge is drawing a correlation between the measurements, and what you actually hear as a good tonal balance. Here's what I found.

1.A flat curve from about 200hz to 20khz (measured nearfield 0.5m)is what I start as a baseline when I build the active crossover . Typically, this sounds a bit bright, and very slightly downward 1-2db slope from 1-2khz to 20khz is more balanced. This is related to the (harman) X curve but is actually due to air loss and room dissipation of higher frequency in larger rooms. As a result, the final balance that sounds 'right' is dependent on both room size as well as relative liveliness of the room furnishing. Not to mention personal preferences.

2. For the upper bass and low mids, next I dial in the BSC, baffle step compensation. For commercial speakers this is already part of the crossover, and is the reason why some speakers need more distance from walls to avoid sounding boomy and thick.
For diy, in typical rooms, a 3-4db low shelf at ~300hz, Q=0.6-0.7 is a good starting point. Due to the room, effects, this is difficult to measure, typically I adjust by ear with some choice test tracks that I'm familiar with.

3. Finally the low bass. Maybe a slight 3-5db shelf from 100hz to 50hz, then flat to the system rolloff. This is measured at MLP and this is when I EQ cut the room modal peaks as part of the response shaping.

With the above, I have tried active combinations of many different woofer, mid and tweeter, and come up with a system that actually sounds more similar than different. Tonal balance is similar based on the above steps , with remaining subjective differences in sound due to the relative directivity of the system (eg dome tweeter vs horn vs ribbon ), and diffraction nasties etc.

I see this as science supporting art. At the end of the day, it's about what sounds good, and getting there systematically instead of trial and error.

Cheers!

PS : everytime I do the above process with a new active speaker setup, I laugh at myself, because I'm literally an 'audiophile' who uses high quality music to listen to my system..

Here's some pics of my latest build.

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk



Thanks wechnivag for sharing your knowledges and experiances  8) cool

Offline synthesis

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2019, 09:43 »
After all these discussion, can some share preferred freq response after all the room correction, manual override, room acoustic etc; from 10Hz to 20kHz? 

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2019, 09:19 »
In my numerous experiments, I tend to prefer a +8db rise starting from about 70hz all the way down to 18hz, then flat thereafter down to single digit frequency. 70hz up all the way to 20khz flat target. This is for Home theatre

I have different preferences for music curve though

The key however, lies in how the target curve turns out. One like this is highly preferred by me



See the one on TOP, the graph and response is much more linear, compared to the one below that is bulging and has like a hump. I find the one on TOP to have a much better feeling overall, sounds cleaner and had a better overall tonal balance

If u r correcting for a response using REW, then try out “logarithmic interpolation”, make sure that is ticked in rew or other software. This provides for a much more linear correction

One of the best I’ve heard, is at NGSK place with the rythmik 3xf18 , in his room, it’s very linear.

The linear target provides for a much better tonal balance, even for music. Compared to the bulging one.

It’s got a very good overall balance for HT and music. Sort of like works nicely for both music and HT

Technically, the smaller the room, the steeper the curve is needed to achieve that tonal balance, something like 10-14db

These will provide the baseline, when you EQ for your house curve in a particular room. No right or wrong, just preferences.

It’s a good starting point, then tweak from there onwards till u find the best balance between Low bass, midbass, upper mids etc all the way

Offline synthesis

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2019, 18:13 »
+8dB is way too light for me. ;D I guess how much bass boost also depends on the typical playing SPL. I normally play at relaxed SPL and my sub boost is quite a bit more. It doesn't feel too bass heavy, just fuller sound. These couple of graphs were taken at listening position. It was measured early morning and was played a bit softer so it won't disturb others. It's just to show the overall response. Mine is living room setup, plain 5.1, no Audyssey etc, room treatment is only Ecophon on the ceiling. Stereo is using different sub. 

HT


Stereo


Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2019, 18:46 »
Yes this will sound about right for most movies, as the content for most movies rolls off from below <30-20hz onwards. If u use BEQ, then it’s a different story, because that area now no longer requires that much boost

Apart from setting the curve for the room, content plays a part as well.

That is why it’s very hard to find the right balance, no hard and fast rule

However if all movies are on BEQ, then u will truly enjoy a good overall tonal balance with consistency throughout all different source material

Definitely worth checking out BEQ

 

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