Author Topic: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound  (Read 1583 times)

Offline desray

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2019, 14:06 »
That means you are still young.

Yeah as age catches up. Higher frequency will be a thing of the past. This is the reason why Atmos enabled speakers which have a certain high pass filter guideline requirement set forth by Dolby which utilise higher frequency to “fool” our brains and ears to perceive “height” channels work for some but for everyone.



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Offline wizardofoz

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2019, 14:09 »
Flat doesn't = good...nothing is ever flat anyway

use EQ to find what sounds good to you on your setup in your room...any other room or setup will be different.

My hearing drops off after 8KHz
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.

Offline kennyluck2000

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2019, 14:49 »
Have u dived into Bass EQ? If you haven’t, then u can check out Ngsk room! If he is free, Lol . A fully time aligned system, very very good 7.3 system. His room not with flat response, Low frequency rising curve , sounds fantastic, at least to me, (lol cos I EQ for him, sure la say fantastic ) hahahahaha

Jokes aside, are u looking at tweaking something or adding some room Eq software etc? Out of curiosity, what prompted the question on a flat response?

No Bryan I haven't go into bass eq. Neither do I apply the room correction software.
I still at my 5.1 era... :P
I just want to bring up this topic so everyone can share their thoughts...
NGSK room is sure soild one... 8)
Ok will visit him.... :)
I am not worry about flat response.. I already achieve my preference sound for both movie and music concert.
Bass is good soild from 80hz to 18hz down 2db to15hz and roll off from there...
Waiting for my 2 diy 18" to enhance my bass from 20hz and below... ;)
Most importantly we enjoy what we have now....  8)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 14:55 by kennyluck2000 »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2019, 18:08 »
No Bryan I haven't go into bass eq. Neither do I apply the room correction software.
I still at my 5.1 era... :P
I just want to bring up this topic so everyone can share their thoughts...
NGSK room is sure soild one... 8)
Ok will visit him.... :)
I am not worry about flat response.. I already achieve my preference sound for both movie and music concert.
Bass is good soild from 80hz to 18hz down 2db to15hz and roll off from there...
Waiting for my 2 diy 18" to enhance my bass from 20hz and below... ;)
Most importantly we enjoy what we have now....  8)

Can’t wait ! Very excited for you, you must venture into bass EQ once your 18” subs come on board. It’s very very satisfying, another level all together .

Most importantly you have achieved your preferred sound, and enjoy your set up at the moment, that’s what matters end of the day :)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2019, 18:14 »
That means you are still young.

Lol no longer young.... up to which frequency you are able to hear ? Have you tested ?

I didn’t test previously when I was younger, not until recently. So no benchmark

Online rayleh

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2019, 18:16 »
Lol no longer young.... up to which frequency you are able to hear ? Have you tested ?

I didn’t test previously when I was younger, not until recently. So no benchmark

12kHz. I should be much older than you.



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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2019, 18:23 »
Flat doesn't = good...nothing is ever flat anyway

use EQ to find what sounds good to you on your setup in your room...any other room or setup will be different.

My hearing drops off after 8KHz

I see, are you able to hear past 12khz ? I was actually testing for preference on the target curve, I prefer to shelf the frequencies >8khz downwards by 1.5db. I find it too bright with a flat target straight to 20khz, especially the 10khz section when blades and bullets fly, that piercing sound ....

Hmm, good to know

Online rayleh

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2019, 18:51 »
I see, are you able to hear past 12khz ? I was actually testing for preference on the target curve, I prefer to shelf the frequencies >8khz downwards by 1.5db. I find it too bright with a flat target straight to 20khz, especially the 10khz section when blades and bullets fly, that piercing sound ....

Hmm, good to know

Can't hear beyond that. I EQ till 500kHz so the sound is not so piercing. Will need to dig deeper but the curves in the Audy App just give you a general idea so quite impossible to fine-tune into the details. Need an AVR with Dirac Live.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2019, 19:20 »
Can't hear beyond that. I EQ till 500kHz so the sound is not so piercing. Will need to dig deeper but the curves in the Audy App just give you a general idea so quite impossible to fine-tune into the details. Need an AVR with Dirac Live.

500hz I suppose. So you go with the Schroeder frequency, leave the speakers to play back at their natural response in the room. So you are in The Schroeder camp

Do you do this for music and HT ? Both on similar profiles ?

Online rayleh

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2019, 19:27 »
500hz I suppose. So you go with the Schroeder frequency, leave the speakers to play back at their natural response in the room. So you are in The Schroeder camp

Do you do this for music and HT ? Both on similar profiles ?

Yes 500Hz. 😆 Rarely listen to music so I use the same profiles for both. Kids and wife concur that it sounds better with Schroeder Frequency.

Offline kennyluck2000

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2019, 19:36 »
Can’t wait ! Very excited for you, you must venture into bass EQ once your 18” subs come on board. It’s very very satisfying, another level all together .

Most importantly you have achieved your preferred sound, and enjoy your set up at the moment, that’s what matters end of the day :)

Yes once 18" in will include the minidsp. ;)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2019, 08:37 »
Yes 500Hz. 😆 Rarely listen to music so I use the same profiles for both. Kids and wife concur that it sounds better with Schroeder Frequency.

Very good! U know what u want! That’s what matters, it’s also good you have your Mrs and kids to confirm, 2nd opinions are always welcome . I have the same experience, I’ve played with so much of EQ stuff that even my Mrs can tell and pick up resonances in the room, whether it’s boomy, too much gain, etc  lol . She will tell me which one nicer which not so nice. Similar to you, she is my second pair of ears , hahahaha .

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2019, 08:49 »
Yes once 18" in will include the minidsp. ;)

Looking forward to check out the diy 18”s, understand that it will be the um18 Drivers, what amplifiers to drive these two beast ? And if DSPs available with the amp?

So just handling deep bass with a Low pass filter ?

Have fun in your new journey! Integration for different model subs can be challenging. The subwoofer integration in my journey, is hands down the most difficult and complicated piece of puzzle in HT. It’s also crucial in HT to enjoy those LFE

Have fun bro, no pain no gain !

Offline kennyluck2000

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2019, 14:05 »
Looking forward to check out the diy 18”s, understand that it will be the um18 Drivers, what amplifiers to drive these two beast ? And if DSPs available with the amp?

So just handling deep bass with a Low pass filter ?

Have fun in your new journey! Integration for different model subs can be challenging. The subwoofer integration in my journey, is hands down the most difficult and complicated piece of puzzle in HT. It’s also crucial in HT to enjoy those LFE

Have fun bro, no pain no gain !

Byran the diy Dayton UM-18-22 is with Peter. It pair with the Behringer NX3000d DSP amp. You can check out with Peter.
I am ordering another 2pcs Stereo Integrity HST-18 MK II to test pairing with Minidsp and Behringer amp.

Ideally the 18" basically only handling the low pass at round 20-25hz depend on how the bass will integrate with the rest of the sub...and roll off at around 10hz or even earlier...everything need to test out first... ;)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 16:46 by kennyluck2000 »

Offline wechnivag

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Re: Do nice flat graph=Good Sound
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2019, 20:03 »
If I may share my findings regarding TS question on flat graph and how it sounds.

Many who know me know I depend heavily on measurements to fine tune the tonal balance of my system. This is even more important for a full diy active setup where is no baseline voicing or tonal balance like a commercial speaker.

The challenge is drawing a correlation between the measurements, and what you actually hear as a good tonal balance. Here's what I found.

1.A flat curve from about 200hz to 20khz (measured nearfield 0.5m)is what I start as a baseline when I build the active crossover . Typically, this sounds a bit bright, and very slightly downward 1-2db slope from 1-2khz to 20khz is more balanced. This is related to the (harman) X curve but is actually due to air loss and room dissipation of higher frequency in larger rooms. As a result, the final balance that sounds 'right' is dependent on both room size as well as relative liveliness of the room furnishing. Not to mention personal preferences.

2. For the upper bass and low mids, next I dial in the BSC, baffle step compensation. For commercial speakers this is already part of the crossover, and is the reason why some speakers need more distance from walls to avoid sounding boomy and thick.
For diy, in typical rooms, a 3-4db low shelf at ~300hz, Q=0.6-0.7 is a good starting point. Due to the room, effects, this is difficult to measure, typically I adjust by ear with some choice test tracks that I'm familiar with.

3. Finally the low bass. Maybe a slight 3-5db shelf from 100hz to 50hz, then flat to the system rolloff. This is measured at MLP and this is when I EQ cut the room modal peaks as part of the response shaping.

With the above, I have tried active combinations of many different woofer, mid and tweeter, and come up with a system that actually sounds more similar than different. Tonal balance is similar based on the above steps , with remaining subjective differences in sound due to the relative directivity of the system (eg dome tweeter vs horn vs ribbon ), and diffraction nasties etc.

I see this as science supporting art. At the end of the day, it's about what sounds good, and getting there systematically instead of trial and error.

Cheers!

PS : everytime I do the above process with a new active speaker setup, I laugh at myself, because I'm literally an 'audiophile' who uses high quality music to listen to my system..

Here's some pics of my latest build.

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