Author Topic: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors  (Read 1331 times)

Offline tsammyc

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Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« on: September 19, 2019, 21:30 »
I was just watching the Shazam UHD on my BenQ W2700 and Panny UB820, and I can't find a setting that makes the picture look good. There are very bright scenes near the beginning with some reflective snow on the ground that look very washed out, but are quite nice on the OLED. Also, the cave scenes with the old Wizard don't look anywhere as good as they look on an OLED. Fiddling with the HDR Brightness on the UB820 didn't do much. I think it's just one of these 4,000 nit masters, with many super high brightness scenes that don't work with PJs.

Would be curious if someone with a UB820/JVC custom program manages to get this title right.

Online ronildoq

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2019, 22:42 »
Yea a lot of it to do with the tone mapping on the BenQ, I’ve witnessed first hand. Somehow the forum guys at avs seem to find this tone mapping good on The BenQ. However I beg to differ, as I thought maybe I’m coming from OLED and expectations were high. So this now confirms it. It is no where close to the quality of the OLED

But word from another jvc N7 user confirms the tone mapping to be good , again how good not sure. Need to see to believe

Online ronildoq

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 08:48 »
Both of us have the benefit of comparing the same source material on the PJ vs the OLED . I think as a starting point, HDR is a TV thing. It’s never a PJ thing. It’s never meant to work like how the TVs are handling HDR. I may be wrong as Friends mention JVC N7 is very good with its tone mapping.

You can try another movie, The Meg, that also has picture quality that look washed out on HDR10 on the PJ, enter the OLED it’s a different movie

But some are reasonable, especially the Disney ones like avengers, captain marvel etc. But it looks phenomenal and fantastic on the OLED . 

So yea, nothing wrong with the source. The only option available to adjust is HDR brightness settings for different movies

Offline Audio

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 09:58 »
If you want the BEST picture quality, it is always OLED screen.   You go for projector only because there is no OLED screen at more than 100" screen size that costs less than a 6-digit price tag.  For projector, it is all about the size.

(Audio)




Online ronildoq

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 12:43 »
Yea correct. But the projector is actually very good with image clarity, 1080p or 4K , very sharp.

But HDR still needs some improvement , it’s where I hope we see some solid improvement, especially on the tone mapping algorithm and with dynamic HDR coming up , this will be nice

How do u find the HDR processing on the Sony PJ ? As in the tone mapping quality on the Sony ?

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 18:53 »
I do, obviously, realize that OLED vastly exceeds a projector in dynamic range, contrast and blacks. And I knew that Shazam would be a difficult title, with the bright scenes - 1,400 nits apparently. However, I thought that Panny's famed HDR Optimizer would do a sufficient job that I would be happy. But no matter what I tried, it was more washed out than I would like and this was in the dark of night. I also don't think it is BenQ's HDR mapping, as it has high praise among reviewers and on other titles, wide color gamut looks great to me on the projector. The Shazam UHD has praise among reviewers for having a 4K master and is sharp with a high bit rate, so I suspect its the mastering for 4,000 nits and the bright scenes. It may be a torture test for projectors! Any other suggestions of UHD discs that are difficult for projectors? Will look for The Meg. I did try Shazam from the Apple TV 4K and from Movies Anywhere. Both looked slightly better than the 4K UHD disc on the projector, but not much.

Online ronildoq

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2019, 19:01 »
Yes check out the meg

If you find pics washed out too, then u can confirm it’s the HDR tone mapping

Then zoom in on blade 2049 that movie, if u find it too dark, then yes again the tone mapping is the culprit...

Await your feedback when u have watched both

If I were to test the jvc N7, I would look at these two movies

Online ronildoq

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2019, 08:31 »
I do, obviously, realize that OLED vastly exceeds a projector in dynamic range, contrast and blacks. And I knew that Shazam would be a difficult title, with the bright scenes - 1,400 nits apparently. However, I thought that Panny's famed HDR Optimizer would do a sufficient job that I would be happy. But no matter what I tried, it was more washed out than I would like and this was in the dark of night. I also don't think it is BenQ's HDR mapping, as it has high praise among reviewers and on other titles, wide color gamut looks great to me on the projector. The Shazam UHD has praise among reviewers for having a 4K master and is sharp with a high bit rate, so I suspect its the mastering for 4,000 nits and the bright scenes. It may be a torture test for projectors! Any other suggestions of UHD discs that are difficult for projectors? Will look for The Meg. I did try Shazam from the Apple TV 4K and from Movies Anywhere. Both looked slightly better than the 4K UHD disc on the projector, but not much.

Tsammy...

There you go...http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?action=post;quote=1321030;topic=281392.240

The meg scene, what a coincidence JVC used this to showcase it’s tone mapping capabilities , recently at Cedia 2019

It is the tone mapping quality, I can assure u that , pop in the spears and munsil 4K disc pattern, one of the patterns will tell u the quality of the tone mapping on the PJ when the metadata kicks in

In shopping for an OLED or HDR PJ, the tone mapping capabilities on the display comes to mind as TOP priority

For OLED, the LGs are really good with its tone mapping feature

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2019, 22:02 »
Roni, that link didn't work, but I think I know the thread. I have the S&M disc, but haven't had the chance to play with it.

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Shazam doesn't look good on projectors
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 22:55 »
I think I've figured out the secret sauce of using the BenQ W2700 with the Panasonic UB820. By using the Info button on the UB820, I can see whether the UHD Blu Ray is mastered to 1,000 or 4,000 nits peak brightness. For the W2700, you turn ON the Wide Color Gamut (WCG) filter if the disc is mastered to 1,000 nits and turn OFF the WCG filter if the disc is mastered to 4,000 nits. This seems to work extremely well in a dark room. Shazam brightened up to the point of being quite nice when I turned the WCG filter off. I'll continue speculating on why this in the W2700 thread I started