Author Topic: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear  (Read 25366 times)

Offline keai

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #315 on: December 15, 2019, 23:50 »
wah bro Bryan, glad to see you continue, I wait till neck long long already, :)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #316 on: December 15, 2019, 23:54 »
wah bro Bryan, glad to see you continue, I wait till neck long long already, :)

oops... just got my new laptop after cyber monday last week actually. finally finished setting up the laptop etc. Next week im heading to Skate's place dial in the PSA subs. this time round ill share again how i EQ his set up. Hopefully can bring it up to another level, with Bass EQ

ill share more in details , on blending of mains with subs

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #317 on: December 23, 2019, 08:57 »
Here is something that may work well in A square room as well



GIK’s tune trap, Scorpus. If WAF is not an issue

Probably good to fill the entire right hand front corner to solve the problems

Looks to be very effective this one on reviews done by some others



The one on the bottom right looks good, diffusion mid high whilst treating 30-60hz issues

Offline petetherock

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #318 on: December 23, 2019, 20:42 »
Thanks Bryan again for posting all this info.
I've been a little quiet on this thread over the year end, one because I've been simply enjoying my system for a while, and also seeing if the symptoms are still present.

Secondly, I've also been 'afraid' to make any adjustments simply because I'm incapable of doing the high level tweaks that bros did for me, so I lived in fear of making adjustments. I actually wanted one sub to sit in the left front area, because there's a space for it there and it was the second best position for it too, and more importantly, it was far away enough not to be able to isolate.


So the graphs show I have a very nice room response now, and that was the issue. One of course was upsetting this 'balance' and second, the shyness from asking for more help if I changed things and messed it up, but I decided to do some minor tweaks, that wouldn't upset the room that much.


Despite turning the volume / gain and crossover on the REL, I can isolate it at the rear right, and that's a source of discomfort, and that was the sub I wanted to move to the front. Also due to time issues, we didn't perfect the crossover from the mains to the subs, and because my centre was measured when it was not sited at the edge of the console, there was a drop in the 100-120Hz area.

I've since moved the centre to the edge of the console and more significantly, added a bass trap to try. It's hefty device, and interestingly my wife actually doesn't mind it! However it's not cheap, and I would say, someone may not go to this extent, because you cannot expect it to radically change the sound and it did not. I added a SubDude under the REL (the JL already sits on one) and the localisation is less now, but the impact is also ameliorated a bit.


The original Audyssey calibration post Bryan's tweaks left me with some dissatisfaction on the surround envelop as well as the odd nasal centre sound. Now after doing it again, my surround envelop is back, and whilst the bass impact is lessened after the bass trap and Subdude post recal, the sound is alright, although I can still isolate the REL at my right rear.


The big move will be to shift it to the front and see how that sounds, but I rue to make such a big adjustment as I need to redo the entire REW/DSP and I'm not capable of the quality Bryan did.
I had some bros over, and after listening, they immediately wanted the MiniDSP, but I cautioned that you need someone to help with the tweaking and there in lies the challenge.


So sellers of the MiniDSP take note, price in a consult, and you will be able to sell a lot more such devices :)


In the mean time, I've got some downtime over the Christmas break and I'm going to enjoy more of the movies recently acquired and see how things work out. I've always wanted to see if swopping out the REL for another JL will be nice, but things are ok as they are, and I might just live with the slight localisation and pressure effect I can sense due to the REL being quite close to me.


To anticipate another response, now with the JL also directly behind me, I don't actually feel or know it's there, so it's not due to the nearness that's the issue but the fact that the REL is near me (within 2m) AND it's at a corner. But we all live with compromises and it's a quantum leap for me in sound quality after the recent help by Bryan and I'm likely to keep things as they are for the near future :D
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

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https://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2020/02/my-setup-22020.html

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #319 on: December 24, 2019, 08:40 »
Hey bro, I think it will work with one sub on the left front corner, and the other at back right corner. Where the rel subs sit now

The other thing with dual subs is the balance it brings about, on the left area + right area. That will create a soundfield that is very very hard to localise, if done right. And once it’s right, u can shift it to a higher XO and relieve your mains from Low frequency duties and your mains will really start to perform

Ideally, I would advice to have one sub in front left, another back right, opposing sides always yield better result and it brings a nice balance to the entire set up. That would bring balance to the force ! Kekeke

Avoid, having it nearfield. That leads to the path, some consider to be unnatural, so says palpatine. Keke, In Star Wars mood now. Haha.

Anyway, jokes aside, if going dual, it’s always better to have it one front one back opposing ends, left or right. Farfield will be the way to go, much more natural as the energy approaches u at MLP

Once u have solved that mode on the front right corner, move the subs left front, right back , then u will be able to bring the system up another level

That also then solves the centre channel, as u will be able to use a higher XO AT 120hz, send the bass below 120hz to the subs, without localisibg the subs, since they are now located at left right respectively

The energy distribution in the room will be much more balanced

May the force be with u !!

Offline petetherock

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An interesting article about using a sub behind you for phase cancellation:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/are-you-putting-subwoofers-behind-viewer
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

My gear:
https://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2020/02/my-setup-22020.html

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #321 on: February 06, 2020, 08:52 »
There u go... from the beginning I’ve already mentioned the square room is a headache and a big no no for HT, there are ways to circumvent though, but challenging indeed



The worst is not a perfect square, the worst is a triangle shaped room! That one is a total nightmare ! One of the hall layouts with HT in SG that I came across... the mode swings were massive

That’s why identical subs are the way to go.... one back one front, (not nearfield) all the points laid out way before the article was even out



These were all real life experiences, gotta heed the advise...

Ps:// Petetherock, no doubt now dual JL the way for u bro, if u like the signature of JL

Offline rayleh

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #322 on: February 19, 2020, 19:13 »
Thanks bro, I think given the size of the thing, I can only fit one..
I'm trying out the Art Novion Siena W Subtrap standalone which can handle a 43-46Hz wave.

https://artnovion.com/product-categories/9-bass-trap/products/320-sub-trap-range
@ bro wechnivag
The one you posted is for a higher frequency..
The sub trap is one big mama.. so it will just about fit in that vital corner..

Siena Sub Trap - Stand Alone
- 736x892x400mm


Pete, how is the bass trap? I have just received a quote and the price of one is surprisingly high, almost equivalent to the cost of a PSI AVAA.

Offline petetherock

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #323 on: February 22, 2020, 11:07 »
Hey bro
IMHO, if you want a single pill to fix the problem, this bass trap won't be the first line. IMO, it's a luxury item which is part of a series of solutions. I would say if you had to choose between a sub and this, take the sub first.. or do it like me, swop out the REL, add another JL E112, And get this, haha..
I've place the second JL E112 at the left front, let's see if the bass is more balance, the first one is still directly behind my seat, to give me the tactile experience at low listening levels.
In the Denon thread - I didn't post because the scale is not comparable across different rooms / speakers. But I usually listen at -40 to -41.

I think if one wants to be thorough, it will take two of these and that's a lot of change..

I'll wait for bro Ron to have more free time and we re-cal it again because I've added the bass trap, changed subs and the position..

And thanks to bros who pm to check up on me. I'll have more free time soon with our workplace going into cohort.. cheers
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

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Offline rayleh

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #324 on: February 22, 2020, 12:46 »
Definitely will need more than just a bass trap to solve the room modes. Having my HT in the living room definitely has its limitations so relocating existing subs or having additional sub will need some convincing to do.

Offline petetherock

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #325 on: February 27, 2020, 09:40 »
Apart from the bass trap, I've swopped out the REL, and now use two E112s.
Re-did the Audyssey - something I can do whilst awaiting help on the DSP. The JL Audio subs are in a different class, but they are more expensive.
I think for the sealed subs, they are the sub to beat.
I've heard the SVS SB 3000 and they are pretty good, and the Ultra series is even better, but they cost more than the E112.
2 E112s is a good choice if you have the space / budget. Alternatively the E110 is not shabby either.
My thoughts here:
https://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2020/02/jl-audio-e112-review.html
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Offline sevenz

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Re: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #326 on: February 27, 2020, 17:25 »
Fully agreed on the e112 sub :)

IMO, its price point VS performance is at quite a sweet spot.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 17:33 by sevenz »

 

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