Author Topic: Setting up a HT Den in a square room: Compressive Feeling In My Ear  (Read 16669 times)

Offline Boxerfan88

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Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2019, 21:43 »
Will report back and hope the bro is able to come ...

If you’re opening up a troubleshooting session, i may drop by to help if my schedule allows.

btw, iirc you’ve moved out from viz?


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Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2019, 23:37 »
is your new seating position 1m from back wall? if it is, then it is similar to my MLP. i found this position through a lot of trial & error. most balanced for me.

also, if there is a chance to shift LR speakers, try to place them about 1m (just under 1m) from side wall. i also found this final position through a lot of experimentation.

sharing my positioning since our room dimensions are almost identical.


hope this helps...


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Thanks bro
My Dyns are about a 1m from the sides and 80cm from the rear. The MLP I used before was about 1m from the back, but that gave the worst compression feel in my ears..
Turned off Dyn EQ, and I'm playing with a Dyn Volume at "Light" and it's a little better... sigh.. I think good bass disagrees with me! Ha ha
Come over bro, I sent you a pm...
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Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2019, 23:40 »
On a separate note, the two channel bass has become tighter though and less exaggerated hmm..
And in this 'nearfield' position, the experience is more enveloping, but more 'selfish' because my new MLP is very central and I had to push my wife's chair to the side..
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Offline bluepill193

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2019, 12:13 »
I am not able to do acoustic  treatment in my living room, but luckily dont have your problem when watching movies on my 7.1.4 setup, audyssey xt32.
But for stereo listening from stereo amp without any eq, the only spot without a 50hz bass boom is via Nearfield listening (MLP and the front spkrs form equilateral triangle). All other places in the room has that irritating headache inducing boom.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2019, 13:30 »
Frankly, Audyssey is the last thing to do for a case of modal peak. The solution can be resolved by displacement either from your MLP or the subwoofers. You will be surprised by how much improvement you can get simply by moving the subwoofers away from the corners. 3 subwoofers can be challenge which may cause unevenness in bass response “if” you didn’t place it properly.

Audyssey doesn’t help much. You should do a sweep first to determine the best MLP and/or subwoofer placements.



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Very good advice from desray. The modes are only seen whilst seated at MLP , but mainly felt because the entire room is pressurised. Moving the subwoofers away from the corners brings down the pressure . This eliminates the boundary gain, which in turn reduces the pressure in the room and ultimately pressure in your ears

Moving the MLP won’t help

I believe a nearfield centre placement for subwoofer will help with your case in bringing down the pressure in the room , but that will come at the expense of timing. U will achieve a good tonal balance though

U may want to try placing it in these positions “+”

And when u go with + placement options, u may wanna have bass traps near window areas or dihedral locations where two walls meet

The best way to tell is by playing the same movie or clip that caused the pressure in your ears, then open RTA and look at the response, determine which frequency is causing the pressure to your ears.

Step 1, place your umik mic at MLP and open RTA, make sure adjust rta selected

Step 2, run a sine wave on that specific frequency

Step 3, hold a spl meter, c weighting slow, walk around the room and look at the SPLs on the spl meter

Step 4, the highest SPLs in that particular area is where the ringing is happening and bass is staying on longer

Step 5, put your bass traps there or get a psi active bass trap to absorb this frequency

Hope that helps

Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2019, 14:24 »
Thanks
In nearfield do you calibrate separately?
Righty now two subs are fed from one channel. The JL audio is fed from the other
That seems to give the most even bass
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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2019, 18:56 »
Personally I prefer to calibrate the subs as 1, I see more benefits in doing so, but on condition that you have controls/external eq to optimise the subs before audyssey. With nearfield, there is also very near field, they are all calibrated the same as far field subs.  Audyssey will apply the necessary delay on the subwoofer that is nearer

Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2019, 15:59 »
Thanks bros sdds, ken and boxer for coming over..
At least the picture or perhaps the sound is clearer now..


Bro boxer helped with the opening ceremony on my UMIK (BTW, the newer packaging is more cheap) and taught me the basics of using it
Then bro sdds and kenshin helped with the listening and feeling in more detail..


All three esp ken and boxer could feel the compressive and the unpleasant feel. We narrowed it down to a few factors:
- MLP in an almost square room
- having three subs didn't make it better actually and the flattest response was with the JL audio alone.
- crossover is another factor
- having different brand subs also didn't help


I don't know how to post yet, but from REW, the bass was all over (ups and downs) with peaks in the 35-40s, dips in the 50-80.. and a muddy bass
Interestingly, the Aud EQ added more muddiness..


Kind of obvious, but yep there it is


Moving ahead, when I'm able to redo it, I may
- run the JL audio alone
- run it with a Sub24 as a MBM to boost the dip from 50-80Hz. With the JL audio E112, the curve looked the nicest.


I'll report back in a few weeks when I've borrowed a unit or two of the Starke SW 24... given my low volume listening, this might give some punch and tightness, kind of like the old Velodyne MiniVee I owned in the past (8" cone)...


Again, thanks for coming guys, appreciate it very much..
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 16:11 by petetherock »
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Offline desray

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2019, 20:37 »
Thanks bros sdds, ken and boxer for coming over..
At least the picture or perhaps the sound is clearer now..



Bro boxer helped with the opening ceremony on my UMIK (BTW, the newer packaging is more cheap) and taught me the basics of using it
Then bro sdds and kenshin helped with the listening and feeling in more detail..


All three esp ken and boxer could feel the compressive and the unpleasant feel. We narrowed it down to a few factors:
- MLP in an almost square room
- having three subs didn't make it better actually and the flattest response was with the JL audio alone.
- crossover is another factor
- having different brand subs also didn't help


I don't know how to post yet, but from REW, the bass was all over (ups and downs) with peaks in the 35-40s, dips in the 50-80.. and a muddy bass
Interestingly, the Aud EQ added more muddiness..


Kind of obvious, but yep there it is


Moving ahead, when I'm able to redo it, I may
- run the JL audio alone
- run it with a Sub24 as a MBM to boost the dip from 50-80Hz. With the JL audio E112, the curve looked the nicest.


I'll report back in a few weeks when I've borrowed a unit or two of the Starke SW 24... given my low volume listening, this might give some punch and tightness, kind of like the old Velodyne MiniVee I owned in the past (8" cone)...


Again, thanks for coming guys, appreciate it very much..

Great effort by everyone... :)

Offline Boxerfan88

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2019, 11:19 »
Glad to be able to help kick start your REW journey  ;)

Stumbled upon this video, Pete - it is worth watching.
https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2018/february/ask-the-expert-the-speaker-placement-master-class

Key takeaways for me:
a) seating at 1/5 from rear wall (my MLP is between 1/3 and 1/5 from rear wall)
b) 8:5 ratio for speaker positioning in a square room (new idea for me to try)
c) ear hears the sound energy envelope (i need to study my room measurement smoothed at 1/1, 1/2, and 1/3 octaves)
d) sort out speaker/MLP positioning before spending $moolah on bass traps
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 11:21 by Boxerfan88 »
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Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2019, 12:12 »
Thanks bro, I'm quite keen to try out the twin Sub24 idea, because they have a small footprint and are quite WAF too.
I'll see how that goes after I get a chance to try them... stay tuned..

What's that 8/5 rule? I must have missed it...

And and bass traps cost a lot more than those subs, ha ha...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 12:25 by petetherock »
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Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2019, 12:23 »
Current idea, take home two units of Sub24 and use various options:
- one unit as a MBM
- two units as subs and don't use the JL E112
- all three units running...
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Offline Boxerfan88

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2019, 16:37 »
IMHO, I'd avoid MBM setup because you have very nice L-C-R speakers that digs down to 45Hz.
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Online wizardofoz

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2019, 18:59 »
I think more sub you pressurise even more...small room long wavelength will be issue.
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.

Offline petetherock

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Re: Help: Compressive Feeling In My Ear
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2019, 19:30 »
IMHO, I'd avoid MBM setup because you have very nice L-C-R speakers that digs down to 45Hz.
Thanks bro, we eventually got to a less 'compressive' feel, but there was a large dip and yes to answer Wiz, more isn't better, so I reckon even one main sub plus the MBM behind me might be a potential solution. So I might as well trade in the unused ones... I might be putting a sub or two on the market soon.. ;)
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