Author Topic: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App  (Read 1385 times)

Offline rayleh

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« on: August 09, 2019, 09:06 »
Hi All,

I have been reading about Harman Curve on the web and it was also mentioned in this forum. Anyone try the Harman Curve on the Audyssey App? Can share some insights on how to do it? TIA.

Offline rayleh

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Offline desray

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 07:17 »
My take on these house curves is...it is very much dependent on the room you are in. It’s a moot point here to discuss which house curve and at what boost of a frequency range is the best. What is best for you probably suited for your room size and not the rest. That is why not many members are willing to share what is the best except to provide more reading materials like what you did here (thanks for sharing the link)

In the same vein as room nodes is the content of the media you are playing as well. What works for movies probably ain’t gonna work well with 2 channel or multi-channel SACD or a Blu-ray concert.

There is a reason why flat response curve is the baseline in what most room EQ software is trying to achieve so that everything (from speakers to subwoofers) is able to play in concert for majority of the media content we throw at it. If you prefer that chest thumping bass, be prepared to experiment. Harman house curve or equivalent just provides you with a baseline to start with. It is NOT a one-size fits all solution if that is what you are after.

Too bad, we dun live in a perfect world. Some compromises have to be made, that is why some members have 2 systems to cater to different listening needs because of the content.


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Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 08:16 »
Realized that too. Thanks. Playing with the App Editor and still prefer flat as of now.

Offline desray

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2019, 12:43 »
Harmon House Curve or not...this is my very own house curve which served me well for the past 1 week or so (through trial and error). Here's what I do...

First, check your subwoofer capabilities in terms of its frequency response. For JL Audio subwoofers, we are blessed with useful information such as the following:

Frequency Response (Anechoic) for E112
Between 22Hz - 118Hz (±1.5dB)
-3dB drop at 21Hz / 120Hz
-10dB drop at 17Hz / 153Hz

Frequency Response (Anechoic) for E110
Between 25Hz - 116Hz (±1.5dB)
-3dB drop at 23Hz / 120Hz
-10dB drop at 18Hz / 165Hz

With the abovementioned info, you can tell the E series subwoofers from JL Audio won't go as deep and it started to roll off at the low end (at 21Hz) and high-end (at 120Hz) for the E112. If this is true, then we try to avert from boosting the SPL beyond the E112's capaibility. I have chosen to boost +6db for the frequency range from 30Hz to 70Hz and then gradually roll off at about 170Hz (SPL at 0db).





The end result is a much more "meaty" mid-bass punch w/o any detrimental effect to the E series subwoofers natural roll off points at both end of the spectrum. Make sure to do a corresponding increase of 6db gain to the combined subwoofer levels on the AVR as well.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 13:49 by desray »

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2019, 12:51 »
Desray, thanks for sharing.

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2019, 13:37 »
@Desray,

DEQ on? any additional sub boost?

Offline desray

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 13:44 »
@Desray,

DEQ on? any additional sub boost?

Yes DEQ is on. I set my LPF for LFE at 100Hz. Crossover for mains set at 80Hz. No “bloaty” bass as far as I can tell. The defining moment is when u playback The True Legend fighting scene into the snake pit.

BTW I also redid my Audyssey calibration again after the recent Audyssey App update. While I can’t really tell for certain at this point whether it does make a difference to the bass response or any of the frequency response for the entire speaker array, it will be worthwhile to redo your calibration again to see if there is any kind of improvement to your overall sound imaging and bass. Anyway, you got nothing to lose since you can always revert to the previous graph.

Just my 2 cents.


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« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 13:47 by desray »

Offline desray

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 14:01 »
I should also add that by adjusting the LPF for LFE between 120Hz, 100Hz and 90Hz-80Hz...this is what you will get:

At 120Hz (default): Much fuller and aggressive bass. Suitable for those who wanted a near-field tactitle effect, though it can be quite "chest-thumping" for some movies authored at very low LFE.

At 100Hz: Bass is less aggressive. Suitable for most movies with action sequences. A good compromise.

At 90Hz-80Hz: A much "cleaner" bass though less aggressive than the previous 2. Suitable for more general content like music and movies. I found myself preferring this when I listen to concert blurays.

Once again, YMMV...you need to experiment it yourself to see which suits you better.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 16:35 »
That was my intent when I started this thread. For members to share their experience even though I understand "there is no one house curve for all". Thanks again, Desray for sharing more insights on your experience. Going to play with the editor more and will share my experience too.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2019, 20:14 »


Fine tune the subs last night and run Audyssey again. Sound is more crisp and can hear more detail. Increased the gain of the sub on the AVR by 4db. Watched a part of Conjuring where the exorcism was carrying out. The rumbling from the subs was scaring the hell of me. Also the stadium part from Oblivion, the whole living room was shaking. Ended reduced the gain to original level. Will listen more and feedback, happy now.


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Offline desray

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2019, 20:32 »




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Rayleh, I noticed the “after” Audyssey curve for your subwoofer is quite coarse. Where did you place your subwoofers?



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Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2019, 20:38 »
In the front flanking the left and right speakers. FR for the speakers are also quite coarse. My living room is quite bad but can’t shift the subs and I am using in-wall speakers. My sofa is also close to the opposite wall.

Offline desray

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2019, 21:00 »
In the front flanking the left and right speakers. FR for the speakers are also quite coarse. My living room is quite bad but can’t shift the subs and I am using in-wall speakers. My sofa is also close to the opposite wall.

Any chance you can take a snapshot of your subwoofer position using your phone and then upload it via the Tapatalk and let me have a look?

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2019, 21:16 »
Any chance you can take a snapshot of your subwoofer position using your phone and then upload it via the Tapatalk and let me have a look?



These are the locations of the subs.


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Offline desray

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2019, 15:40 »


These are the locations of the subs.


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Thanks for sharing the placement. I guess there is really not much you can do here.

My advice is (whenever you have the opportunity) to say change your TV console in the “near future”...do think of getting a shorter width or better still get a bespoke shelf to house the AV gears (for better ventilation and IR reception) and replace it with a complete full LCR (bookshelf speakers with stands) to get better front stage. I have not much experience with in-wall speakers but I have heard it once at a colleague’s setup and I think it was the “weakest link” in his 5.1 setup. But then again, just like you...he is after a more “family-friendly” setup. If it is HT nirvana we are after, then most likely it ain’t gonna look “aesthetically-pleasing”...

Important thing is you like what you are hearing...Enjoy!



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« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 15:48 by desray »

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2019, 16:05 »


Did some measurements and this configuration has the best FR. Will run Audyessy again when I have time.



I ran Audyessy with another configuration. You can see the FR is not the best.

I will have a dedicated HT room when my kids have grown up. As of now,  I have to keep a balance between my hobby and WAF. I can hear my system is getting better with REW, miniDsp, dual subs and Editor App. Next may get a Dirac Live-enabled AVR. Can't change the speakers yet but I am aware of the constraints of using in-wall speakers. I am also using in-ceiling speakers for surround.

BTW, i have 2 more in-wall front height speakers too. As for ventilation, I am using the AC Infinity USB Fans so the AVR never feels warm and I rarely listen to volume of more than -30db. There is also no door for the TV console so ventilation is actually more than sufficient.


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« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 16:11 by rayleh »

Offline desray

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Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2019, 17:17 »

I will have a dedicated HT room when my kids have grown up. As of now,  I have to keep a balance between my hobby and WAF. I can hear my system is getting better with REW, miniDsp, dual subs and Editor App. Next may get a Dirac Live-enabled AVR. Can't change the speakers yet but I am aware of the constraints of using in-wall speakers. I am also using in-ceiling speakers for surround.

BTW, i have 2 more in-wall front height speakers too. As for ventilation, I am using the AC Infinity USB Fans so the AVR never feels warm and I rarely listen to volume of more than -30db. There is also no door for the TV console so ventilation is actually more than sufficient.


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Glad to hear that. At -30db listening level, I thought it is quite conservative but I get it for a living room setup. Hopefully when u have a dedicated room, you can listen at least at -18db to get that cinematic effects.


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« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 17:20 by desray »

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2019, 20:43 »
Hi Desray,

I turned on Dynamic EQ so at -30db is already quite loud. I recalled seeing your post that you turned off the Dynamic EQ. Without Dynamic EQ, listening at -20db or louder is fine.

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2019, 20:57 »
I have DEQ on and listening at -18 to -15 dB presently. Softer recording I go to -12dB.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2019, 20:59 »
I have DEQ on and listening at -18 to -15 dB presently. Softer recording I go to -12dB.

Wow! That’s loud, maybe I am used to low volume.

Offline desray

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2019, 21:00 »
Hi Desray,

I turned on Dynamic EQ so at -30db is already quite loud. I recalled seeing your post that you turned off the Dynamic EQ. Without Dynamic EQ, listening at -20db or louder is fine.

No...I wouldn't encourage anyone to turn off Dynamic EQ (DEQ). Please don't ever do that. You sure I say that? Turning off Dynamic Volume is fine and optional.

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2019, 21:01 »
Wow! That’s loud, maybe I am used to low volume.

Not really...if it is properly calibrated...a volume level betweeon -20db and -15db is perfectly fine when watching movies.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2019, 21:02 »
You posted your setting on the Audyssey MulitXT editor app thread or did I see wrongly?

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2019, 21:02 »
Not really...if it is properly calibrated...a volume level betweeon -20db and -15db is perfectly fine when watching movies.


Agree!

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2019, 21:05 »
You posted your setting on the Audyssey MulitXT editor app thread or did I see wrongly?

Show me that post/thread...I could have type wrongly but I doubt so.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2019, 21:06 »
Both of have a dedicated HT room? I can’t turn on too loud in a living room setting. If the room noise is low, I feel quite deafening. The loudest I turned up was -20db yesterday watching Rampage. My living is untreated and I think there are many reflections.

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2019, 21:09 »
Both of have a dedicated HT room? I can’t turn on too loud in a living room setting. If the room noise is low, I feel quite deafening. The loudest I turned up was -20db yesterday watching Rampage. My living is untreated and I think there are many reflections.

Yes treatment helps. Once treated you will find the loudness goes down.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2019, 21:11 »
Show me that post/thread...I could have type wrongly but I doubt so.


My bad, you turned off Dynamic Volume not EQ.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2019, 21:13 »
Yes treatment helps. Once treated you will find the loudness goes down.

Doing research now on room treatment. Can only do limited room treatment for living room setup.

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2019, 21:16 »
Doing research now on room treatment. Can only do limited room treatment for living room setup.

Limited is good. Try not to turn the living room into a studio, it's a common living space. The challenge is to treat it but still looks comfortable, classy and inviting.

Offline desray

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2019, 21:19 »
My bad, you turned off Dynamic Volume not EQ.

Dynamic EQ should NEVER be turned off. Always remember that :) If you feel the bass is too heavy when DEQ is turned on...there are other methods to try but never turn off DEQ as far as using Audyssey is concerned.

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2019, 21:22 »
Doing research now on room treatment. Can only do limited room treatment for living room setup.

Home theatre in a living room is ALWAYS a challenge. There is simply too many external factors to consider and harder to control. But you can still get it to work to your best of your abilities by following some tips for proper speaker and subwoofer placement.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2019, 21:24 »
Dynamic EQ should NEVER be turned off. Always remember that :) If you feel the bass is too heavy when DEQ is turned on...there are other methods to try but never turn off DEQ as far as using Audyssey is concerned.


I will never turned off Dyn EQ although they are different schools of thoughts. Honestly, my system has elevated to another level in my opinion, thanks to all the advices from fellow forumers.

Offline desray

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2019, 21:26 »
I will never turned off Dyn EQ although they are different schools of thoughts. Honestly, my system has elevated to another level in my opinion, thanks to all the advices from fellow forumers.

Glad to know that...

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2019, 20:34 »
Room treatment next.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2019, 15:50 »
I turned off Dynamic Volume and I will be able to listen to -10 to -15db. This is the so-called "watching movies in the cinema feel". I was watching the scene of the underworld fight between Alita and Grewishka, the impact of the bass was astonishing. It can be felt even in my kitchen and bedrooms so decided to listen at lower volume and Dynamic Volume turned on. Just in case, my neighbors can feel it too.

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2019, 18:12 »
I turned off Dynamic Volume and I will be able to listen to -10 to -15db. This is the so-called "watching movies in the cinema feel". I was watching the scene of the underworld fight between Alita and Grewishka, the impact of the bass was astonishing. It can be felt even in my kitchen and bedrooms so decided to listen at a lower volume and Dynamic Volume turned on. Just in case, my neighbours can feel it too.

Yes, that is correct. If you wish to get that "cinematic impact" + clearer dialogue w/o increasing the need to increase the Master Volume, Dynamic Volume at "Light" setting is a good starting point. This method is good for watching movies but not so much for viewing content with wide dynamics and authored at higher reference levels like live concert or even listening to SACD or 2 channel tracks...The side effect is of course "harsher" sound and ear fatigue sets in fairly quick. For that you, you can use the Dialog Enhancer under Options and set to "Medium" range while you can adjust the Master Volume to have a better "fit" to the content you are watching.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2019, 18:29 »
I am using Denon X2400 so don’t have dialogue enhancer feature. I have set Dynamic Volume to light as of now. Planning simple room treatment next and then will upgrade to a AVR with Dirac Live. That’s also the reason why I didn’t sign up for your workshop because I am not using MultiXT 32. 😉

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2019, 19:47 »
I am using Denon X2400 so don’t have dialogue enhancer feature. I have set Dynamic Volume to light as of now. Planning simple room treatment next and then will upgrade to a AVR with Dirac Live. That’s also the reason why I didn’t sign up for your workshop because I am not using MultiXT 32. 😉

I see...iirc Denon X2400 is using the MultEQ XT version. If so, you are missing out a lot here.

You should consider upgrading to Audyssey MultEQ XT32 for your next upgrade. It comes with SubEQ HT module (found only in MulEQ XT32 version at least for Denon & Marantz AFAIK) which allows for independent subwoofer calibration for 2 subwoofers. SubHT EQ will apply different delay and level settings to each subwoofer to make it time and level aligned. After which, combine both subwoofers together and come up with a "combined sum" correction EQ filters to get the subwoofers to play in sync with the rest of the speaker arrays - e.g. L/C/R/Surrounds/Surround Back speaker setup.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2019, 20:03 »
Yes, I had a X4100 with XT32 previously. That’s why I am using miniDSP to tune the dual subs now. With Bryan’s guidance on getting the impulse of the center speakers and both subs aligned, the system sounds so much better. I bought the app too to run Audessey and disabled the mid range compensation and tweaking the curve. Eyeing a Dirac Live enabled AVR next. Have been using Denon since I started the HT journey, time to try out other brand. Also, now with some fundamental knowledge of measuring and tweaking, time for a more complicated EQ.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 20:05 by rayleh »

Offline desray

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Re: Harman House Curve for Audyssey Multieq App
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2019, 20:56 »
Yes, I had a X4100 with XT32 previously. That’s why I am using miniDSP to tune the dual subs now. With Bryan’s guidance on getting the impulse of the center speakers and both subs aligned, the system sounds so much better. I bought the app too to run Audessey and disabled the mid range compensation and tweaking the curve. Eyeing a Dirac Live enabled AVR next. Have been using Denon since I started the HT journey, time to try out other brand. Also, now with some fundamental knowledge of measuring and tweaking, time for a more complicated EQ.

Oh yes, miniDSP with built-in PEQ and X-Over will definitely come in handy and even better compared to SubHT EQ. My next one will probably be Dirac Live enabled AVR as well. Keep a lookout for Anthem MRX AVR as well - not the current gen but wait for the new gen (if any) in the near future. :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 20:58 by desray »