Author Topic: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR  (Read 1485 times)

Offline sdds

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1179
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2019, 15:05 »
Anytime and most welcome  ;D

Offline YANG

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4185
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2019, 16:43 »
...I also observed that using a flagship series avr with ext amplification gave better sound steering & ambience as compared to using a mid range avr as the processor (x4000 in my case Vs 4520 / sr7011), perhaps due to higher quality audio components. Not sure if any other bros have similar observations
I see differently. When brands got acquired into a group, it will not be "cost effective" to produce identical spec'ed products with different badge then pushed to one market to loggerhead against one another with different sales marketing. However, it will be "sales effective" if different brands are pushed into different regions with different sales marketing targeting different consumer group.

This is why you see small "population" of Pioneer in the market ever since ONKYO bought over, while in U.S. or U.K. Pioneer is more "populated" than Onkyo.

Back to Marantz...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lnOdOpBFDbU&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/lnOdOpBFDbU&fs=1</a>
2018 Marantz lineup introduction

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xI---2CtsQk&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xI---2CtsQk&fs=1</a>
2019 Marantz lineup introduction
What's identical between Denon and Marantz? Besides physical aesthetic design?
Under the hood, any big difference between Denon 8500 and Marantz 8850?

Offline kenshin07

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 420
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2019, 16:59 »
Go for the best amp within your budget. Adding addition power does not necessary WILL sound better. It just have better control to your listening experience. Of course YMMV. Getting a decent good external power amp does play an important role. All in all added in, including interconnect and power cord you can go for better avr.

I have heard both Lyndorgf and Stormaudio, there are in a diff league altogether. In my opinion no matter how simple your setup is pairing with a solid good amp still make a big diff. At the end you have to decide what budget you willing to pay.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 17:20 by kenshin07 »
AVR: Denon AVC 8500
Power amp: Aragon 8008BB, Proceed 2/3
speaker: Front/Center/Surround/SurrBack:Dynaudio contour s1.4, dynaudio 210C | PSB imagine s surround | PSB Imagine mini | Atmos spk AG diva SE
Sub: starke dual sub36
EQ: Minidsp DDRC-24 dirca live
Player: Oppo 203
Cable: AFA Zeus II PC (SUB), ESP reference PC (pwr amp, AVR, Oppo 203), AFA Zeus II speaker cable, oyaide MTB 6 with AFA Zeus II PC

Offline desray

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19140
  • Bring the "Cinema experience" back home...
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2019, 19:16 »
Go for the best amp within your budget. Adding addition power does not necessary WILL sound better. It just have better control to your listening experience. Of course YMMV. Getting a decent good external power amp does play an important role. All in all added in, including interconnect and power cord you can go for better avr.

I have heard both Lyndorgf and Stormaudio, there are in a diff league altogether. In my opinion no matter how simple your setup is pairing with a solid good amp still make a big diff. At the end you have to decide what budget you willing to pay.

Bro, which one is better or should I say what are the differences in SQ for both of these? Care to elaborate?

Offline Doggie Howser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 21780
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2019, 09:53 »
Having played with the new Anthems, I am going in a different way... I think I am going to offload all my disparate power amps in my current set up when they become obsolete.

An Anthem MRX1120 has got great internal power amps, I wouldn't bother with separates. Or if I did, it would be with identical power amps throughout. Even though I reckon my power amps for surrounds are better than the ones in the Anthem - they are outclassed by my front LR power amps (which I also use for stereo), so I never quite achieve the same level of cohesion as I do on the Anthem

My only concern is that the LS50 I had planned to use for LCR SR SL SBR SBL duties are a little hard to drive, so I may need to think Anthem with the Class G amps (which pair very well with the LS50)

End of Line - Derezzed

Offline reno77

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Snr Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2019, 10:25 »
Just my 2 cent of inputs might miss out other brands , 

Mid range :

Emotiva , Nad , Audiocontrol , Acram , Anthem ,Lexicon

Hi end : 

Lyngdorf , Storm , Bryston , Trinnov , Acrus , Datasat ,JBL
systhnesis.

The new focal Astral 16
https://www.focal.com/en/home-audio/high-fidelity-speakers/audio-video-processor-and-amplifier/astral-16

Edit: Ah, its a repackage of the Storm Audio I.ISP 3D.16.12 ELITE .
https://www.stormaudio.com/en/products/av-immersive-sound-receivers/7816-iisp-3d1612-elite.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 12:30 by reno77 »

Online Tiktokape

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3228
  • Nothing to compare, be happy and enjoy while alive
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2019, 10:35 »
Precisely the case, I second that Doggie's LS50 as they are hard to drive hence they will need external amp. If do AVR, try to stick within the brand for coherency.

Aside, If one's speakers are not even hard to drive, may not be worth the additional output. No doubt one can argue that it does make a difference BUT it is matter of a total balance. If such is one's case, it should be pointed toward the route of AVP and external multi-channel amp. A standalone AVP will not be polluted by the transformer compared to AVR. That will results in a better quality sound.

Online whitesox

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1267
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 11:12 »
Go for the best amp within your budget. Adding addition power does not necessary WILL sound better. It just have better control to your listening experience. Of course YMMV. Getting a decent good external power amp does play an important role. All in all added in, including interconnect and power cord you can go for better avr.


+1
If you have a good input source then.... you will have better output when you amplify it with a good external amplifier.
But you need extra space for this setup.

Since you use ext amplifier to drive all your speakers, why not go for AVP.
(this setup may burn your pocket bigger)
AVP has no build-in amplifier for all channels and yet more expensive than AVR..

 ;D
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 11:26 by whitesox »

Offline econav

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6068
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 15:48 »
amp are not all perfrom the same way on lower output power or at the highest clipping point what is their freq respone ? are they still linear under all output condition ? some are very sensitive to inductive load and some are not producing linear power on low resistance/capitance load, as we understand speaker imp for some can drop below 4 ohm or almost short at very high freq , all this will affect the linear power output a amp can reproduce. further then that the power supply on how fast they can recover/charge up to produce very consitent supply to the amp , all this change and affect the power output and the linear of the freq range it can reproduce .
to begain with .... many say is good and some even say is a must all spk to be same brand or range ! why ? was not it to get the same freq respone in the first place ? and if so should we also have all equal on it supply to the spk .... your take ......
We are not second hand dealer , all items we sell as used are tradedin from our customer and we don't rate it condition but for the buyer to decide on it own.
From time to time we may sell off some New but open up used for rental/standby/loan items and to ensure they cant be sold as Brand new , we will dispose off the box.
all post
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2968
Service & collection : Block 1085 #03-36 Eunos Ave 7A  whatsapp 96387418 to arrange

Offline kenshin07

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 420
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2019, 21:23 »
Bro, which one is better or should I say what are the differences in SQ for both of these? Care to elaborate?


Both are very good, to put it short. Lyndorf is more musical and neutral while storm audio give better slam and dynamic. On the room eq integrated both did a very good job as they focus more on time alignment. Lyndorf easier to use while dirac require some knowledge.

Personally i go for dirac as i have seen how good the software can do.
AVR: Denon AVC 8500
Power amp: Aragon 8008BB, Proceed 2/3
speaker: Front/Center/Surround/SurrBack:Dynaudio contour s1.4, dynaudio 210C | PSB imagine s surround | PSB Imagine mini | Atmos spk AG diva SE
Sub: starke dual sub36
EQ: Minidsp DDRC-24 dirca live
Player: Oppo 203
Cable: AFA Zeus II PC (SUB), ESP reference PC (pwr amp, AVR, Oppo 203), AFA Zeus II speaker cable, oyaide MTB 6 with AFA Zeus II PC

Offline kenshin07

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 420
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2019, 21:25 »
+1
If you have a good input source then.... you will have better output when you amplify it with a good external amplifier.
But you need extra space for this setup.

Since you use ext amplifier to drive all your speakers, why not go for AVP.
(this setup may burn your pocket bigger)
AVP has no build-in amplifier for all channels and yet more expensive than AVR..

 ;D

Haha said is easier than action. Bo lui
AVR: Denon AVC 8500
Power amp: Aragon 8008BB, Proceed 2/3
speaker: Front/Center/Surround/SurrBack:Dynaudio contour s1.4, dynaudio 210C | PSB imagine s surround | PSB Imagine mini | Atmos spk AG diva SE
Sub: starke dual sub36
EQ: Minidsp DDRC-24 dirca live
Player: Oppo 203
Cable: AFA Zeus II PC (SUB), ESP reference PC (pwr amp, AVR, Oppo 203), AFA Zeus II speaker cable, oyaide MTB 6 with AFA Zeus II PC

Offline desray

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19140
  • Bring the "Cinema experience" back home...
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2019, 21:29 »
Both are very good, to put it short. Lyndorf is more musical and neutral while storm audio give better slam and dynamic. On the room eq integrated both did a very good job as they focus more on time alignment. Lyndorf easier to use while dirac require some knowledge.

Personally i go for dirac as i have seen how good the software can do.

I see. So in crude reference, one is Onkyo and the other one is a Marantz.

I’m hoping to get my hands on a Dirac based AVR in the near future. We shall see, anything is possible.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline kenshin07

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 420
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2019, 21:37 »
I see. So in crude reference, one is Onkyo and the other one is a Marantz.

I’m hoping to get my hands on a Dirac based AVR in the near future. We shall see, anything is possible.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmm, i take it more toward denon but at a much more refine sounding.

Yes you shd go try dirac very flexible
AVR: Denon AVC 8500
Power amp: Aragon 8008BB, Proceed 2/3
speaker: Front/Center/Surround/SurrBack:Dynaudio contour s1.4, dynaudio 210C | PSB imagine s surround | PSB Imagine mini | Atmos spk AG diva SE
Sub: starke dual sub36
EQ: Minidsp DDRC-24 dirca live
Player: Oppo 203
Cable: AFA Zeus II PC (SUB), ESP reference PC (pwr amp, AVR, Oppo 203), AFA Zeus II speaker cable, oyaide MTB 6 with AFA Zeus II PC

Online Tiktokape

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3228
  • Nothing to compare, be happy and enjoy while alive
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2019, 21:38 »
I see. So in crude reference, one is Onkyo and the other one is a Marantz.

I’m hoping to get my hands on a Dirac based AVR in the near future. We shall see, anything is possible.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Since you sold Anthem, might as well buy Dirac based AVR lo. Who knows who is next to go? Dirac based AVR or Denon AVR?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline desray

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19140
  • Bring the "Cinema experience" back home...
Re: Mid-range AVR with Power Amp or High-range AVR
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2019, 21:46 »
Since you sold Anthem, might as well buy Dirac based AVR lo. Who knows who is next to go? Dirac based AVR or Denon AVR?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hehe...we shall see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk