Author Topic: Will there still be a market for projectors?  (Read 2481 times)

Offline crosstan

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Will there still be a market for projectors?
« on: June 14, 2019, 22:13 »
Just like to hear opinions.
With screen sizes getting bigger, like Samsung 98" TV, or it's upcoming modular screen for consumer that can go to 292" with 8k resolutions, are projectors still relevant? Granted the prices now are beyond reach for the masses, but if demand catches on, technological improvements will drive the prices to more acceptable levels, probably within a decade.
Always have a thing for projectors. Feel it gives a better cinema like experience but the advances in projectors seemed to have slowed. Big screen sizes tvs on the other hand are getting more n more attractive, both in price and picture quality. The contrast from the oleds or even Samsung QLED are just amazing. Will there still be a future for projectors that makes sense for consumers (not something that is priced beyond reach for most), or will manafactuers stop investing in the product development and we see projectors being phased out?

Online kaydee6

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 22:16 »
Probably another 10-15 years before flat panels at 100” and above reach mass market price. In the mean time enjoy the projector.

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2019, 22:46 »
The modular screen will be perfect, but otherwise today, a $2,500 BenQ projector throws a super sharp 150 inch 4K HDR image at 4000:1 contrast. Getting a 150 inch TV into your house will be impossible as it won't fit through the door. TVs have their place in bright living rooms, but for the cinematic experience, a dark cold room with a projector is just nice. The other issue is  the source material being produced. Material is coming out with 4,000 nits brightness, e.g. a small star in a black background. It's difficult for projectors to produce that level of brightness when everything else is black. So projectors may not be able to accurately produce some of the future source material, but neither can cinemas. Sony's latest 8K and the QLEDs are perfect for these although the 700-800 nits brightness of my OLED is already bothersome to me, so as long as it is a 4,000 nit dot and not a 4,000 nit HID car headlight shining into my eyes, I might be able to tolerate it.

Offline Boxerfan88

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Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 07:23 »
If HT brightness levels ever gets close to real life; we'd probably be reaching for our sunglasses when the cloudless bright sunny day scenes come up


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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 07:36 »
The modular screen will be perfect, but otherwise today, a $2,500 BenQ projector throws a super sharp 150 inch 4K HDR image at 4000:1 contrast. Getting a 150 inch TV into your house will be impossible as it won't fit through the door. TVs have their place in bright living rooms, but for the cinematic experience, a dark cold room with a projector is just nice. The other issue is  the source material being produced. Material is coming out with 4,000 nits brightness, e.g. a small star in a black background. It's difficult for projectors to produce that level of brightness when everything else is black. So projectors may not be able to accurately produce some of the future source material, but neither can cinemas. Sony's latest 8K and the QLEDs are perfect for these although the 700-800 nits brightness of my OLED is already bothersome to me, so as long as it is a 4,000 nit dot and not a 4,000 nit HID car headlight shining into my eyes, I might be able to tolerate it.

When I first got the 1800 nits Sony ZD9, I brought it to the media room and set it up on a table and used it instead of my (then) JVC RS60 projector.

OMFG - my wife said turn it off. It was sooo bright in the dark media room.

Surprisingly the image wasn't as small because I set the TV about half the distance of my screen from my main viewing position.

So it filled up the field of view quite well.

I am using the W5700 Benq in a demo room in the store and I have to say, it is damn impressive with the right room. But I still prefer the W2700 for its overall brightness.

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Offline desray

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 10:40 »
The modular screen will be perfect, but otherwise today, a $2,500 BenQ projector throws a super sharp 150 inch 4K HDR image at 4000:1 contrast. Getting a 150 inch TV into your house will be impossible as it won't fit through the door. TVs have their place in bright living rooms, but for the cinematic experience, a dark cold room with a projector is just nice. The other issue is  the source material being produced. Material is coming out with 4,000 nits brightness, e.g. a small star in a black background. It's difficult for projectors to produce that level of brightness when everything else is black. So projectors may not be able to accurately produce some of the future source material, but neither can cinemas. Sony's latest 8K and the QLEDs are perfect for these although the 700-800 nits brightness of my OLED is already bothersome to me, so as long as it is a 4,000 nit dot and not a 4,000 nit HID car headlight shining into my eyes, I might be able to tolerate it.

Very well put...bro Tsammyc.

Offline desray

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2019, 10:45 »
For those who think projectors aren't "bright" enough for HDR titles, think again...the quality of "HDR" isn't all about "brightness" but how rather how well the display (Projector/TV) handles the tone-mapping as there is NO consumer-grade display (Projector and TV) that can really display a 4,000 nits reference for HDR content.

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2019, 11:31 »
For those who think projectors aren't "bright" enough for HDR titles, think again...the quality of "HDR" isn't all about "brightness" but how rather how well the display (Projector/TV) handles the tone-mapping as there is NO consumer-grade display (Projector and TV) that can really display a 4,000 nits reference for HDR content.

Actually, there is :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTEN813ceeA

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/uTEN813ceeA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/uTEN813ceeA&fs=1</a>



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Offline desray

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2019, 11:36 »
Actually, there is :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTEN813ceeA

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/uTEN813ceeA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/uTEN813ceeA&fs=1</a>

Haha. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing out.



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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2019, 12:34 »
:D i have asked the local Sony Pro distributor for a price.

Lucky I was sitting down when he told me - A$25/26k estimated.

😱

But as Vincent says - the next 4000 nits display is from Dolby and it's not even sold - only for "rent" for calibration and nowhere as large.

Cheaper than the JVC Z1 and Sony 870ES 😂

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Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2019, 12:46 »
Actually the biggest challenge with big screen TVs has to do with the transportation - with padding and boxes, they are GIGANTIC. I can't imagine how I could fit a 100" TV box through the front door when the 65" is already sooo big.

And they are also extremely fragile. The Sony rep said they lost so many OLEDs in transport 😱😭
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Offline sevenz

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 16:04 »
The modular screen will be perfect, but otherwise today, a $2,500 BenQ projector throws a super sharp 150 inch 4K HDR image at 4000:1 contrast. Getting a 150 inch TV into your house will be impossible as it won't fit through the door. TVs have their place in bright living rooms, but for the cinematic experience, a dark cold room with a projector is just nice. The other issue is  the source material being produced. Material is coming out with 4,000 nits brightness, e.g. a small star in a black background. It's difficult for projectors to produce that level of brightness when everything else is black. So projectors may not be able to accurately produce some of the future source material, but neither can cinemas. Sony's latest 8K and the QLEDs are perfect for these although the 700-800 nits brightness of my OLED is already bothersome to me, so as long as it is a 4,000 nit dot and not a 4,000 nit HID car headlight shining into my eyes, I might be able to tolerate it.

agreed too. Well said  :)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 18:07 by sevenz »

Offline in1voice

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 18:35 »
Coming to your original question of whether projectors will be phased out, I personally think that it is a matter of time before home projectors will be phased out. I'm not talking about cinema projectors or biz projectors here.

There are a lot of people who will feel that a 75 inch or 85 inch TV is sufficient for them, and good enough a substitute for a projector based 100 inch screen. With TV technology advancing so quickly, but PJ technology moving slowly, it is just a matter of time before PJs are phased out, especially with the coming rollover and modular screens eroding the advantage that large traditional screens now have.

Face the facts - PJs and screens are troublesome to set up, and not mobile. Once set up, not easy to move to another location. Also more maintenance is required. And you need a dark room, calibration, and a professional installer. Given the TV options coming available, it will take a die hard enthusiast who is willing to go the PJ route. In time, there won't be sufficient demand for PJ makers to justify the R&D costs required to keep ahead of TV tech.

For myself, I am now enjoying my 65 inch OLED, and the quality is so good that I don't miss my 100 inch screen and sold Sony PJ.

Offline Saycheese78

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 20:39 »
I do not own a projector. But guess it is the same of digital vs analog. Do you prefer to see light source or reflected light. We live in a world cinsisting mainly of reflected light. But i agree it is too troublesome.

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2019, 20:44 »
OLEDs are the last word in contrast, but unless you sit really close to a 65 inch TV, you can't see 4K resolution over a 1080P 65 inch TV. Most living rooms aren't that narrow. Hence for 4K resolution, the projector is the only choice for most people today. For 8K, you will need at least 100 inches if you sit 3m away to see the difference over 4K. Hence, I see projectors being around for a long time to come.

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2019, 20:57 »
I do not own a projector. But guess it is the same of digital vs analog. Do you prefer to see light source or reflected light. We live in a world cinsisting mainly of reflected light. But i agree it is too troublesome.

This is an interesting point, because we actually see both light source and reflected light. Street lights, stars, car headlamps are all light source and feature prominently in movies. Hence for realism, not only is resolution like 4K & 8K important, but bright, say small 4000 nit brightness sources will add to the realism as does HDR/wide color gamuts etc. OLED is perfect in that it has infinite contrast, whereas advanced LCD (say Sony 8K, Samsung Quantum Dot) has the brightness. Projectors have neither, but they have the size and impact for movies, plus the ability to get 120 inches through a door :)

The ultimate future display to me is an 8K 4,000 nit OLED modular panel, which LG is working on. I'm sure I will see it in my lifetime, but will I be able to afford it :(

Offline YANG

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2019, 09:50 »
Projector is still a very "reliable" gear to put out bright light for image projection as well as larger screen.
However... what kind of projector can do that?
3 lens projector is not easy to maintain, as well as install, not practical to use in a short viewing distance installation.
Single lens projector is good for typical and average Singapore Property size use. Cheaper it may, however options very limited. Practicality? Erm... do u watch regular free-to-air public broadcast frequently with projector or TV?
Then... comes short throw projectors. As our newer generation housing properties getting smaller and smaller in hall size, STP is the most practical choice to go! However... wait! What's the price now?

Offline francis wu

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2019, 10:47 »

The ultimate future display to me is an 8K 4,000 nit OLED modular panel, which LG is working on. I'm sure I will see it in my lifetime, but will I be able to afford it :(

Haha, you definitely can afford it BUT is it worth it and are you willing to pay for it! ;D

Offline Poppie

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2019, 11:20 »
Projector is still a very "reliable" gear to put out bright light for image projection as well as larger screen.
However... what kind of projector can do that?
3 lens projector is not easy to maintain, as well as install, not practical to use in a short viewing distance installation.
Single lens projector is good for typical and average Singapore Property size use. Cheaper it may, however options very limited. Practicality? Erm... do u watch regular free-to-air public broadcast frequently with projector or TV?
Then... comes short throw projectors. As our newer generation housing properties getting smaller and smaller in hall size, STP is the most practical choice to go! However... wait! What's the price now?

3 lens projector? As in 3-gun CRT projectors? Wow, that's a relic of the past. I am not sure if any are still around and can come close to the output and image quality of the present projectors.

I am not sure if ultra short throw projectors are universally loved or is the solution. It is a compromise and as compromises go, is fraught with issues aplenty. Edge-to-edge sharpness, image distortion, uneven brightness and fan noise are some of the popularly quoted ones. Plus, I don't think you will get up to 100" easily with a UST.

I think these new TV developments are really2x interesting. When TVs get to the so-called 100" benchmark where projectors make sense (and at sensible prices), then you will have a fight on your hands. I guess by then they would have sorted out the other practical issues mentioned by DH like fragility, transportation and delivery. I am sure this will happen sooner rather than later, driven by consumer demand.

Until then, when it comes to absolute size, nothing comes close to a projector.

Offline YANG

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2019, 11:39 »

I thought those RGB cubes are the lens... ;D malu  ;D

Offline congsterz

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2019, 13:48 »
I think in 15-20 years, we might see acoustically transparent, touchscreen microled panels mounted on feature walls in sg living rooms. Center speakers need to evolve into something much thinner, to be tucked in behind those micro led panels. We probably could control those panels like the way we control pc displays and windows.

Offline econav

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2019, 22:58 »
In just less then 2years UST projection ( In China we refer to LaserTv ) from the same 25cm throw distance for a 90" projected image till last week the CIT show in China for the same 25cm distance hit a 150" projected image with 4k and 10bits colour processing , projector is here to stay and is targeted to enter into the Living room wit the development of both soft and hard surface ALR screen.

For corp mostly opt for laser base vs Led base, large and super large scale installation with tri laser that hit 40k ANSI lumen , for cinema and simulation with Red laser module, CRT base 3 gun projector are still in production but just for the very extrame colour decoding needed for some task ,beco of the limited colour processing of digital display and that is the main reason , holding back the market for true 4K display.

Is much more easy to produce more pixel in a given screen size but it need much much much much more processing speed / buffer/memory to map the correct colour and yet produce enough light to pass thru a given display.

So in short projection is emerging into the Living room with a 100"or more screen, all in within a price tag of less then $4k SG can power on/off instantly just like a Tv and work like a Tv , no long run of HDMI cable , no need to focus , no need to .... just place it infront connect up your source or connect to the web ,you are all good to watch your 150" image in less then 20 sec.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 04:09 by econav »
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From time to time we may sell off some New but open up used for rental/standby/loan items and to ensure they cant be sold as Brand new , we will dispose off the box.
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Offline Corona11

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2019, 15:29 »

For myself, I am now enjoying my 65 inch OLED, and the quality is so good that I don't miss my 100 inch screen and sold Sony PJ.

You should do both, a puny 65 inch TV will never have or replace the immersive cinema quality of a 100 inch projector screen.

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Offline crosstan

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2019, 21:06 »
In just less then 2years UST projection ( In China we refer to LaserTv ) from the same 25cm throw distance for a 90" projected image till last week the CIT show in China for the same 25cm distance hit a 150" projected image with 4k and 10bits colour processing , projector is here to stay and is targeted to enter into the Living room wit the development of both soft and hard surface ALR screen.

For corp mostly opt for laser base vs Led base, large and super large scale installation with tri laser that hit 40k ANSI lumen , for cinema and simulation with Red laser module, CRT base 3 gun projector are still in production but just for the very extrame colour decoding needed for some task ,beco of the limited colour processing of digital display and that is the main reason , holding back the market for true 4K display.

Is much more easy to produce more pixel in a given screen size but it need much much much much more processing speed / buffer/memory to map the correct colour and yet produce enough light to pass thru a given display.

So in short projection is emerging into the Living room with a 100"or more screen, all in within a price tag of less then $4k SG can power on/off instantly just like a Tv and work like a Tv , no long run of HDMI cable , no need to focus , no need to .... just place it infront connect up your source or connect to the web ,you are all good to watch your 150" image in less then 20 sec.

This is actually good news to me. I have seen some of these in China but I did not think they are good for home cinema use. Contrast is just way too low. Who is producing such projectors with good contrast currently and in the affordable price range? Really interested to find out as that may well be the next object of desire for me.

Offline in1voice

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2019, 22:43 »
You should do both, a puny 65 inch TV will never have or replace the immersive cinema quality of a 100 inch projector screen.

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Of course 100 inch is immersive but only if you have a top notch PJ. With my previous Sony HW40ES, I was not wowed by the PQ, inspite of the screen size. Though not comparing apples to apples, the PQ of my LG65C7 beats the immersiveness of the Sony PJ. And the trouble of pulling down the screen, switching off all the lights, just makes the OLED much more pleasant to use. 65 inch is not puny, and you can sit a little closer if you want some immersiveness. Certainly I look forward to the day when an 85 inch OLED becomes available at a decent price.

Offline tsammyc

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2019, 10:47 »
There is a strong argument though that OLED's colors are too saturated and unnatural, especially with HDR. The real world doesn't look like that. I have both a 65 inch OLED and a 110 inch screen 4K projector. There is no comparison in immersiveness with the projector, while the new color mapping of the BenQ W2700 makes the HDR 4K image look very good. OLED is good for news, Channel 8 serials, Netflix TV series in 4K HDR. But if you are watching an Epic, 65 inches just cannot make it. You can completely automate a HT with electric blinds, screen and a Harmony remote or Alexa.

Offline econav

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2019, 12:00 »
This is actually good news to me. I have seen some of these in China but I did not think they are good for home cinema use. Contrast is just way too low. Who is producing such projectors with good contrast currently and in the affordable price range? Really interested to find out as that may well be the next object of desire for me.


last CIT june , have more then 20 brand display their offer ...
Viewsonic , Optoma, vivitec all also hv their offer display at the show , inclusive an offer from Skyworth only cost around $1500.

We are not second hand dealer , all items we sell as used are tradedin from our customer and we don't rate it condition but for the buyer to decide on it own.
From time to time we may sell off some New but open up used for rental/standby/loan items and to ensure they cant be sold as Brand new , we will dispose off the box.
all post
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2968
Service & collection : Block 1085 #03-36 Eunos Ave 7A  whatsapp 96387418 to arrange

Offline Corona11

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2019, 15:48 »
There is a strong argument though that OLED's colors are too saturated and unnatural, especially with HDR. The real world doesn't look like that. I have both a 65 inch OLED and a 110 inch screen 4K projector. There is no comparison in immersiveness with the projector, while the new color mapping of the BenQ W2700 makes the HDR 4K image look very good. OLED is good for news, Channel 8 serials, Netflix TV series in 4K HDR. But if you are watching an Epic, 65 inches just cannot make it. You can completely automate a HT with electric blinds, screen and a Harmony remote or Alexa.
Looks like you, in1voice and me all moved from the Sony HW40es, I own the predecessor to the BenQ W2700, the W2550 and even that gives quite a good cinematic picture, the W2700 and W5700 can only be better, I watch movies with an audience of 4 every week and nothing except a real cinema beats the immersiveness of a projector, and the projector also makes it a very nice social event, something a crowd around a TV cannot provide as the screen is way too small.

Anyway best combination is to do both by having a ceiling drop motorized tab tension screen in front of the TV.

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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Will there still be a market for projectors?
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2019, 18:26 »
There is a strong argument though that OLED's colors are too saturated and unnatural, especially with HDR. The real world doesn't look like that. I have both a 65 inch OLED and a 110 inch screen 4K projector. There is no comparison in immersiveness with the projector, while the new color mapping of the BenQ W2700 makes the HDR 4K image look very good. OLED is good for news, Channel 8 serials, Netflix TV series in 4K HDR. But if you are watching an Epic, 65 inches just cannot make it. You can completely automate a HT with electric blinds, screen and a Harmony remote or Alexa.

I concur, the level of immersion watching it on the big screen is satisfying indeed, not only for me, but everyone else at home. At the end of the PJ implementation work, I asked both kids

Do you like the PJ or the previous OLED TV?

Both replied the same time :” I don’t like the PJ, but I LOVE the PJ... “ shakes head... kids these days... so young already know how to tease. Both pestering me to playback 3D material... whole day bugging me... looks like I gotta go hunt for 3D animation material again... and glasses...

Speaking of 3D glasses, what’s the recommended 3D glasses for the BenQ 5700?

Morning the Mrs messaged me, Kids like your PJ ! lol, so it’s success !!

All of us love the big screen over the 65” OLED tv in the hall, 135” at 3.5m viewing distance, really nice

THERE WILL STILL BE MARKET FOR PROJECTORS , no doubt, especially prices of bigger screen sized TVs still haven’t dropped much