Author Topic: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012  (Read 2604 times)

Offline Chowbotak

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Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« on: May 27, 2019, 23:25 »
Bros I am currently using these two subs. I know there was a KK 12012 and Rythmik Fv15hp partnership thread but unlike u guys I know sh1t about calibration  cmlj (complete dummy) and I have absolutely no option but to place mine side by side. See photo.



Due to space constraints I have zero options to move them anywhere else except that little area where they are. My HT is in my hall which is v roughly 9m by 3.5m and it is at one end of the hall nearer the windows.

Right now the KK's side woofer is facing the Rythmik. One of the Rythmik's port is plugged. I am awaiting the arrival of a long power cord so I can turn the KK's woofer to face the wall. Both subs are connected via LFE in. For the KK, it's set to the green dots so I do the settings via the AVR. I'm not sure about the Rythmik tho. Am I controlling from AVR or sub? I last accessed the back panel abt 2 years ago ;D

Although the sound is definitely better than just the Rythmik alone, I know this can be further improved.

Would appreciate any tips on the settings of the two subs shown below. I know I cannot possibly optimize the sound by just doing these but I ain't no HT nut and wouldn't wanna bother with all the complications. No need optimal sound, better sound good enough. Oh yah I forgot to post the settings of my AVR. Maybe tomorrow. TIA!








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Offline pcking

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 08:34 »
Bro, Are you using both of your subs solely for your HT ?
Or do you use them for Hifi Stereo too ?
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Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2019, 12:35 »
Yes bro, subs are for HT only bro. Right now I need confirmation that my Rythmik's settings are not controlled by the AVR. Thanks!
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Offline ngsk

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2019, 12:45 »
Bro u need to connect the Rythmik sub using 'LINE IN' instead of 'LFE IN' to use the sub plate amp to control phase,crossover,etc with 'LINE IN' indicated. Using 'LFE IN' bypass all this.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 14:18 by ngsk »

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2019, 14:59 »
Ah, ok, thanks much bro!
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Offline ralfale

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2019, 16:14 »
I would suggest to sell one of them. Not much point to have 2 different co located sub.. suppose you are driving both full range.

Offline desray

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2019, 20:33 »
Bro Chowbotak, wasted such good subs but not able to perform at its peak.


Offline joamonte

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2019, 21:30 »
What about place kk12012 on top of the F15 Hp? Calibrate them together like one sub woofer😬

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2019, 21:44 »
I would suggest to sell one of them. Not much point to have 2 different co located sub.. suppose you are driving both full range.

Was thinking of that initially but I much prefer the two playing together however sh1tty the settings and placement are
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Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2019, 21:47 »
Bro Chowbotak, wasted such good subs but not able to perform at its peak.

Yes bro. Even my SFs cannot perform optimally in my living room. No choice. Unless I buy a bigger house ;D
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Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2019, 21:48 »
What about place kk12012 on top of the F15 Hp? Calibrate them together like one sub woofer😬

Sure I can do tat bro? Actually tat would be good as I can save floor space!
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Offline sevenz

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2019, 21:56 »
Bro Chowbotak, wasted such good subs but not able to perform at its peak.

I would suggest to sell one of them. Not much point to have 2 different co located sub.. suppose you are driving both full range.

Similar train of thoughts here too with Ralfale and Desray! Really awesome subs u have there and it's VERY WASTED that u can't optimise them. :)

I used to be on a KK12012 + FV15HP setup 2 years back. :) If u allow me to share, my own experience of integrating the 2, it's VERY DIFFICULT to integrate both of them without the means to measure + calibrate using measurements, and without a DSP. And make them sound better together VS just louder bass.

And it's additionally difficult, if I do not limit the frequency coverage for each sub because each will pull down the performance of the other at certain bass frequencies. The 2 subs are very different beasts, both tuned to perform at different freq spectrum. The KK runs out of steam faster than the FV15HP.

But even with means to measure, calibrate, align time domain, I felt that it was NOT EASY to integrate this 2 subs, to sound good together. It's easy to integrate them for louder bass, but it's another thing to sound good together. One of the most difficult pairing I experienced.

So, if u just want a hassle-free solution, keeping these 2 subs might not give u a better bass as what Ralfale mentioned. It might in fact, make your bass worse, most likely. More might not better in your case given the conditions you face, even though they are GREAT QUALITY subs.

Of cos, there are ways to optimise them, and sound better together, rather than worse. But I think u hinted that u do not prefer going down that route.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 22:29 by sevenz »

Offline sevenz

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2019, 21:59 »
What type of bass do u prefer/ like to have in your HT? :)

Assuming, placement of subs can only be at that location and no where else, and u just want hassle-free solution, my suggestions would be to:

1) If u like midbass much more - keep the KK12012. But 1x kk12012 may not be suffice to fill your room size of 9m x 3.5m. So maybe stack one more KK12012 on top. Plus, identical subs much easier to integrate, esp a stacked KK setup! :)

2) If u like low bass much more -  keep the FV15HP and just have 1 sub. 1 FV15HP shld be suffice to fill your room.

3) If u like your bass to be good in mid and low bass - take OPTION 1, but add bass shakers/ Crowson actuators to give u the low rumble effects. It still can give u a good extent of the low rumble effects. Or try what Joamonte mentioned (but, additionally, low pass the FV15HP so that it doesn't muddy the nice mid bass from the KK).
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 22:32 by sevenz »

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2019, 23:17 »
Thanks so much bro Sevenz! I want my bass to be good in both mid and low bass.
I'm not sure what is considered good to HT enthusiasts like u guys but even with the current settings, I prefer to have both of them in my setup. Maybe it's bcos I am not an HTphile and what some may call "don't know how to listen" type ;D

I'll adjust the settings, change the connection to the Rythmik to line in and turn the KK's woofer to face the wall and see how it goes. I'll keep in mind the option to get another 12012 or stack the KK on top of the Rythmik!


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Offline sevenz

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 00:02 »
Thanks so much bro Sevenz! I want my bass to be good in both mid and low bass.
I'm not sure what is considered good to HT enthusiasts like u guys but even with the current settings, I prefer to have both of them in my setup. Maybe it's bcos I am not an HTphile and what some may call "don't know how to listen" type ;D

I'll adjust the settings, change the connection to the Rythmik to line in and turn the KK's woofer to face the wall and see how it goes. I'll keep in mind the option to get another 12012 or stack the KK on top of the Rythmik!

Liking both is nice haha... Me like both mid and low bass departments to be nice & strong too. :)

The kk12012's midbass is super layered, detailed & piercing. I love it!

U likely will hear 2 symptoms/ issues if u keep both subs and run them "full range". One symptom u might observe is that the FV15HP makes the midbass sound more muddy & less layered. Compared to running the KK12012 alone.

You can easily discern this by playing a good midbass reference/demo scene with very quick midbass hits. Then compare KK12012+FV15HP vs single KK12012. Of course, do EQ and calibrate both combi properly before comparing to have equal conditions. Well, 1 simple alternative to overcome this is to - lowpass the FV15HP at 30-50hz.

The other symptom u might see is that the KK12012 is likely to bottom out at very low freq scenes at certain loudness. Just play the popular Lycan in cave scene from the Underworld movie, and u will likely experience it. To solve this, u need a high pass filter on the KK12012.

If u need demo scenes to discern, feel free to ask for help here and the bass warriors can send it to you.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 02:35 by sevenz »

Offline sevenz

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2019, 00:09 »
Would appreciate any tips on the settings of the two subs shown below. I know I cannot possibly optimize the sound by just doing these but I ain't no HT nut and wouldn't wanna bother with all the complications. No need optimal sound, better sound good enough. Oh yah I forgot to post the settings of my AVR. Maybe tomorrow. TIA!

For settings on your Rythmik sub before and after your AVR's room EQ calibration, do pay particular attention to sections 2 and 4 of this document:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/FV15_FV15HP_PEQ3_Installation_Guide.pdf

Also, you'll need to level/ gain match the 2 subs before calibration. I don't think u will need to do much phase alignment though due to being placed at same location.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 00:13 by sevenz »

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2019, 07:38 »
Thanks so much bro! Yes I have read that installation guide. I won't be running both full range. Will set the Rythmik at ard 30hz and the KK at ard 60hz maybe.
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Offline etnt

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2019, 08:42 »
LFE is below 120 IIRC. flick the KK LPF toggle to bypass and let it handle what the AVR passes to it, just don't set the LFE to go to mains in the AVR.

Consider swapping both to a stack of DXD1000?

Offline econav

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 11:09 »
Will set the Rythmik at ard 20hz and the KK at ard 60hz maybe.
You shoule set DXD12012 at default ( green indicator) as the Xover design as such similar like a high pass filter start roll off at around 30Hz ( to protect and also as Ref level for studio mixing ). So in this is safe and the KK should do the job well and your Fv15Hp use line in and set to the lowest freq ,as to level match is not a must in this case ,as you are trying to have each sub to run a given freq range without a external Eq device ,so your best betting is ,after this setting run a auto calibration , then play a moive and adj each sub for low rumble adj on the Rythmik gain to your liking and for puch and full body voice adj the gain on KK to you like , that is all you can do with min tools.


1) Rythmik rumble filter set to on after calibration.
2) PEQ set to off.
3) do away  the isolation of the Rythmik , listen and see you like it better?
4) stack the KK on top Fv15hp and face the driver to rear wall ( give a gap of 3") ,listen and see sound better in that locatiom?

Noted;
Kk DXD 12012 have 2 driver and each driver have it own amp to drive it , when both working the lower bass should be good enough for most setup , but if one of the amp is not working you only get around 40% of the Max output , so if your 12012 bottom out easy two thing you can check,
1) dis-connect any input cable RCA/XLR to the sub and only connect the power and power it up , wait for 20mins and it should goto standby and the LED turn RED , if not that indicate one of the amp's may hv a fuse blew.
2) check the fuse on each amp module and replace it.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 11:24 by econav »
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Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2019, 13:35 »
Wah brothers, thanks so much! All points noted with deep appreciation! Now I'm keeping my fingers crossed that stacking the KK on top will have good results. Well even if no improvement, at least the wife will be happier. Now let me find the time to do all these!  ;D
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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2019, 18:06 »
I would sell one of it if I were u. It’s hard to have different design subs situated at the same location

1. The ported sub will have approximately 20ms delay or more

2. They will both be fighting for the same frequency

3. It will sound “rojak” because of different designs

4. Bass will sound muddied due to timing issues


If u used only one sub, or a pair of KK stacked, your system will benefit better. Best if you can measure the subs response at that location, so u can better decide which subs to keep. However, if u don’t have any tools, then The fastest way to do this is to first

Play a midbass scene with only KK on

Play a deep bass scene with rythmik on...

Compare and see which feels better, if midbass feels better , sell the rythmik and vice versa

Offline desray

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2019, 18:26 »
Bro Chowbotak...I just noticed your signature, "I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi." I should have seen that coming...this explains why you are not into placement of subwoofers and speakers which by the way is the crucial to getting a good HT experience. :)

Tell me that I'm wrong with this ratio: 80(music):20(movies)? :P

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2019, 19:31 »
 ;D

For me, I think 90% music and 10% movies is more accurate. Yes I think my signature does apply to my HT as well. Some of the movies I watched I don't even switch my HT on and I don't watch movies I don't like even if it has superb sound, I only watched their clips in demo discs ;D

Just now I stacked the KK on top of the Rythmik and changed some settings as advised here. Hmm I got slightly more mid bass punch man. Sadly I will be taking down the KK as it looked rather unsightly with the cables at the back exposed. I am quite sure I can improve the sound (to MY ears ;D) somehow with a little bit more adjustments here and there. For HT I am very chin chye, I don't do much tweaking. I don't spend thousands of dollars on acoustic treatment and sound proofing like I did for hifi. Some years ago, a sound consultant came to my place to do measurements of my hifi and HT. For my hifi, the measurements were good, just needed a little tweaking. When he measured my HT he said, ah this is not right, nt right and proceeded to adjust my settings accordingly. I listened after he did that, I told him to change back to my original settings. Yah I'm pretty fcuked up I guess ;D
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Offline desray

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2019, 19:53 »
;D

For me, I think 90% music and 10% movies is more accurate. Yes I think my signature does apply to my HT as well. Some of the movies I watched I don't even switch my HT on and I don't watch movies I don't like even if it has superb sound, I only watched their clips in demo discs ;D

Just now I stacked the KK on top of the Rythmik and changed some settings as advised here. Hmm I got slightly more mid bass punch man. Sadly I will be taking down the KK as it looked rather unsightly with the cables at the back exposed. I am quite sure I can improve the sound (to MY ears ;D ) somehow with a little bit more adjustments here and there. For HT I am very chin chye, I don't do much tweaking. I don't spend thousands of dollars on acoustic treatment and sound proofing like I did for hifi. Some years ago, a sound consultant came to my place to do measurements of my hifi and HT. For my hifi, the measurements were good, just needed a little tweaking. When he measured my HT he said, ah this is not right, nt right and proceeded to adjust my settings accordingly. I listened after he did that, I told him to change back to my original settings. Yah I'm pretty fcuked up I guess ;D

LoL...I rest my case. :P

You can't improve your HT experience if you are not prepare to make "changes" which for the most part unlikely to be what you want. I think for you, just enjoy what you have :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 19:55 by desray »

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2019, 21:13 »
I would sell one of it if I were u. It’s hard to have different design subs situated at the same location

1. The ported sub will have approximately 20ms delay or more

2. They will both be fighting for the same frequency

3. It will sound “rojak” because of different designs

4. Bass will sound muddied due to timing issues


If u used only one sub, or a pair of KK stacked, your system will benefit better. Best if you can measure the subs response at that location, so u can better decide which subs to keep. However, if u don’t have any tools, then The fastest way to do this is to first

Play a midbass scene with only KK on

Play a deep bass scene with rythmik on...

Compare and see which feels better, if midbass feels better , sell the rythmik and vice versa

Thanks bro. As of now I think I am inclined to getting another 12012 to stack. BUT the downside is that I may not want the side woofer to face the wall as the back of the subs and the cables would be exposed, facing my front door argh! I wonder why they design it this way  ???
I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi.

Offline rock123

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2019, 23:02 »
Both are solid subs bro.

Add on 1 more KK 12012 Stack and listen first.
If you like the KK stack combo, hear it with Rythmik On and OFF and see if you like the sound signature\feel.

Can look out for other placement position for the Rythmik in future. ( Not side by side bah:) )
Most important is Enjoy the HT journey! :)

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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2019, 08:47 »
Thanks bro. As of now I think I am inclined to getting another 12012 to stack. BUT the downside is that I may not want the side woofer to face the wall as the back of the subs and the cables would be exposed, facing my front door argh! I wonder why they design it this way  ???

It doesn’t matter much really where the Drivers are facing. What matters is it’s corner loading for the KK subs, KK subs has got very good transient response , u won’t have to worry when it is stacked at corners and if u have EQ to bring down the peaks, the second stacked subs can cover for some SPLs on the null areas, not much but since you can’t move subs much, that would be your best bet

I would advice not to stack it on the fv15hp , they will mess everything up. Gotta live with dual fv15hp or dual kk or single , mixing it and placed at same location will be worse off than a single unit

Trust me, I’ve owned both and just integrated the kk12 and rythmik lvx12 recently last week, I’ll share some of the graph details and why I think it won’t work...

The only way for this combination to work is to place the kk subs at a location where midbass has a peak and fv15hp subs at locations where deepbass has peaks, integrate them that way and they will supplement each other better , they will then not be fighting for the same frequency

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2019, 09:45 »
Both are solid subs bro.

Add on 1 more KK 12012 Stack and listen first.
If you like the KK stack combo, hear it with Rythmik On and OFF and see if you like the sound signature\feel.

Can look out for other placement position for the Rythmik in future. ( Not side by side bah:) )
Most important is Enjoy the HT journey! :)

U're right bro and I'll need to test the different combo for some time. Let me see how troublesome will that be. . Wife will shake her head again ;D
I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi.

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2019, 09:51 »
It doesn’t matter much really where the Drivers are facing. What matters is it’s corner loading for the KK subs, KK subs has got very good transient response , u won’t have to worry when it is stacked at corners and if u have EQ to bring down the peaks, the second stacked subs can cover for some SPLs on the null areas, not much but since you can’t move subs much, that would be your best bet

I would advice not to stack it on the fv15hp , they will mess everything up. Gotta live with dual fv15hp or dual kk or single , mixing it and placed at same location will be worse off than a single unit

Trust me, I’ve owned both and just integrated the kk12 and rythmik lvx12 recently last week, I’ll share some of the graph details and why I think it won’t work...

The only way for this combination to work is to place the kk subs at a location where midbass has a peak and fv15hp subs at locations where deepbass has peaks, integrate them that way and they will supplement each other better , they will then not be fighting for the same frequency

Corner placement will be impossible for me bro cos the only corner space I have is the area next to my main door  :(

So will it be worthwhile to have 2x12012 stacked if I cannot locate them in a corner?
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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2019, 13:31 »
U're right bro and I'll need to test the different combo for some time. Let me see how troublesome will that be. . Wife will shake her head again ;D

Lol my Wife has been shaking her head since 2 years ago, when I was swapping front back left right, stack unstuck, co locate etc... so much so that, suddenly, everything is like ok” that’s expected”... and the head shaking stops... lol

Yes stacking same subs will help, it’s the way to go, but u will need EQ to cut away peaks and resonance, it will help in some way, then just live with some nulls  at certain frequencies, if placement is an issue, that’s the only way... no other way...

Offline sigurros

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2019, 13:42 »
Corner placement will be impossible for me bro cos the only corner space I have is the area next to my main door  :(

So will it be worthwhile to have 2x12012 stacked if I cannot locate them in a corner?
If no corner, possible for front and back of MLP?

Offline desray

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2019, 15:43 »
Lol my Wife has been shaking her head since 2 years ago, when I was swapping front back left right, stack unstuck, co locate etc... so much so that, suddenly, everything is like ok” that’s expected”... and the head shaking stops... lol

Yes stacking same subs will help, it’s the way to go, but u will need EQ to cut away peaks and resonance, it will help in some way, then just live with some nulls  at certain frequencies, if placement is an issue, that’s the only way... no other way...

LoL..."she" will never understand one lar. But your wife is a very nice lady...very accommodating the last time I saw her. :)

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2019, 16:16 »
We shd consider ourselves lucky to have an understanding other half. Some bros here don't have our kind of  "luxury" ;D
I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi.

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2019, 16:22 »
If no corner, possible for front and back of MLP?

I don't know what is MLP but if I place the subs anywhere else, safety rules will be broken ;D
I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi.

Offline rayleh

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2019, 17:23 »
MLP - main listening area

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2019, 19:03 »
 Thanks. Area too small. Unless I shift to Batam  ;D
I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi.

Offline sevenz

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2019, 17:41 »
For me, I think 90% music and 10% movies is more accurate. Yes I think my signature does apply to my HT as well. Some of the movies I watched I don't even switch my HT on and I don't watch movies I don't like even if it has superb sound, I only watched their clips in demo discs ;D


When he measured my HT he said, ah this is not right, nt right and proceeded to adjust my settings accordingly. I listened after he did that, I told him to change back to my original settings. Yah I'm pretty fcuked up I guess ;D

Hey Bro, since u clarified ur usage of HT only 10%, more chin chye abt HT sound, subs not used for HT, dont turn on your HT system for some movies, have certain preference already for your sound, u want less less fuss, & cant move subs, it makes things much much simpler to decide.

Not having different subs would give a better sound without much fuss as what many bros have mentioned here (repeatedly similar advice).

However, if your preference is to keep different subs and enjoy diff bass, then just keep and enjoy them what u think sound best to u.  Keep it simple.

By the way, possible to share which LCR speakers are u using?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 17:50 by sevenz »

Offline Chowbotak

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2019, 18:18 »
I did a little adjustment to my settings again just now. Pumped up the gain on the KK a little more. Turned down the Rythmik. Brought down the KK, woofer 4 inch from wall. Mid bass aggressive thump is showing up. Hmm now feeling less likely to wanna give up the Rythmik  :D

At the moment, LCR is SF Cremona, centre is SF Solo
I buy hifi to suit my music, not buy music to suit my hifi.

Offline sevenz

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Re: Rythmik FV15HP and KK12012
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2019, 19:47 »
Nice LCR u have! :)

Enjoy the tweaks and hope u can get the best out of it