Author Topic: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?  (Read 4525 times)

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 06:19 »
QFT

The path still affects the sound somehow which is what sometimes boggles the mind.
...


Doesn't surprise me at all that even the slightest change in bit-stream path (including cable difference) can have an audible sonic impact... (I can even measure bit-errors when I flex a fibre optic cable :))
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Offline malsound

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2019, 20:36 »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/JFnQSddvUWI&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/JFnQSddvUWI&fs=1</a>

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2019, 22:10 »
The sonic difference between CD Transports vs. Stream[er]s is in the path that the bit-streams take (including the interfaces involved), NOT in the actually bit-streams themselves which can be proven to be IDENTICAL. CD Players vs. Streamers+DACs is a wholly different story and not apples-to-apples comparison.


Quoting myself here  ;D... but looks like Stereophile’s John Atkinson’s coming to the same conclusion… the latest dCS Rossini CD/SACD Transport review;

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-rossini-transport-sacdcd-transport

Quote

These days I mostly listen to music streamed via my network from a Roon Nucleus+ server, so I needed to find out if playing a physical disc in the Rossini Transport sounded better or worse than sending the Rossini DAC the same data via Ethernet.

Playback levels and the spatial aspects of the sound were identical with the two media. However, to my surprise, the double bass in "Too Rich for My Blood" sounded fuller from the SACD played in the Rossini Transport than from Roon via the network. The same was true for the next track, "A Taste of Honey."

I repeated the comparisons with another recording I have as both an SACD and DSD64 files, the Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out (Columbia/Legacy CS 65122). Again the sounds were almost identical, except when it came to the double bass: the SACD sounded a little more full-bodied, more robust.

Color me puzzled. I'm sure the mastering of the versions of these two albums was consistent, but as the data are the same, the sound should be the same. Perhaps, as Jason Victor Serinus has surmised in these pages, an AES/EBU connection for serial data sounds better than an Ethernet or USB connection. I'm not going to give up my Roon Nucleus+—playing physical discs involves me getting up from my chair and crossing the room to the equipment rack—but these comparisons made me think.

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Offline jaffrie

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2019, 23:22 »
Too bad that you Gents are into commercial products. There's this little Sd card transport name SdTrans384 from
Japan. This little gadget is truly a ear opener. Do a google search if your interested.

Cheers

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2019, 10:39 »
Too bad that you Gents are into commercial products. There's this little Sd card transport name SdTrans384 from
Japan. This little gadget is truly a ear opener. Do a google search if your interested.

“Ear opener” compared to what exactly?

The SDTrans is this, yes?




Comparing this to some of the commercial FPGA-based transport platforms is like comparing an Intel Pentium to Skylake - literally a magnitude difference in performance capability ;D

Let me give you a more concrete comparison; the FPGA on the Chord Mojo (portable DAC about the size of the SDTrans) has 101,000 Logic Elements, the SDTrans has 15,000… (a) even if they can program the hell out of the “Pentium”, it’s not going to touch a “Skylake”, and (b) the folks who program these FPGAs are real professionals with multi-year DSP programming experience, a DYIer/hobbyist is not suddenly going to trounce every other commercial DSP programmer, sorry to say.

Have you actually heard any FPGA-based commercial transport platforms in your own home? If you have, which? If not, I suggest you do.  Nothing against DIY, but it’s good to be a bit more realistic lah :)
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Offline malsound

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2019, 12:06 »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ip7XCYJE6Nw&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ip7XCYJE6Nw&fs=1</a>

Offline qflyer

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 17:37 »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ip7XCYJE6Nw&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ip7XCYJE6Nw&fs=1</a>
Don’t trust anything coming from ps audio.

Offline jaffrie

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2019, 20:01 »
Looks like you've got all the smarts wrap up in your head ya Andrew C.
Audio is not just about numbers & specs. Sadly many seem to be caught up
in the Pen Is Mightier Then The Sword syndrome.


Offline AndrewC

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2019, 06:22 »
...Audio is not just about numbers & specs. ...

You’re right, it’s not all about specs of course… but unless you’re in the Matrix, you can’t hope to bend or break the fundamental laws of Physics ;D
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Offline jaffrie

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2019, 19:39 »
You cannot bend the law of physics but you can massage it Andrew.
Besides what's in the FPGA a just algorithms & in this context it depends on where it's core function is being applied too & not whether it's a Pentium vs Skylake scenario. The other thing to look at is, digital audio has progress very fast but has it really proven that old school digital is lacking way behind already ? All that I see
is commercialism & convenience of integration for the new generation of listeners/users & to these users it's like wow but if they get to listen to a properly set up old school system haizzzzz you wonder what all the hype in modern gear is for. Hence the resurgence for example LP play back, DHT Set amps, Horn speakers & dare I say
the good old TDA 16 bit Dac.

Cheers

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2019, 06:15 »
You cannot bend the law of physics but you can massage it Andrew.
...

You can pick any hobby in the world, and there will always be people who prefer nostalgic old shít for emotional reasons. Doesn’t mean it’s actually any better than current technology. Where digital signal processing is concerned, it’s not just a different algorithm alone that’s going to make a difference, actual processing power is sonically significant, because it’s got to do with physics & mathematics, whether you like it or not :)

I notice you still haven’t told us exactly what other FPGA-based transport platforms you’ve compared the SDTrans against when you proclaimed it’s an “ear opener” compared to commercial platforms.

Well?
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Offline Boxerfan88

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2019, 07:31 »
actual processing power is sonically significant,

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Offline jaffrie

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2019, 13:17 »
Well Andrew last year I did manage to listen to a set up at my friends audio store.
System consisted of Dcs Vivaldi One played through a set of FM Acoustics system including speakers.
Mega expensive set up. Sounded very good but is it mega good, probably yes psychologically to the person
who throws that much money for an audio system. No I have not brought my little Sdtrans/dac set up for a direct comparo but one day soon I shall do just that.

Offline qflyer

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Offline jerome_the_lang

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Re: Why cdplayer is better than streamer?
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2019, 16:20 »
StreamUnlimited transport very good - much more preferable to Esoteric transports, due to the speed of which SU transports respond to the touch on their operating buttons which vastly affect subsequent sound reproduction (soundstage, imaging, dynamics, and detail resolution).

Pity they dun make sacd capable transports.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 16:42 by jerome_the_lang »