Author Topic: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors  (Read 42701 times)

Offline badbad2000

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #195 on: March 16, 2019, 20:43 »
Demo Session for the new JVC N7 native 4K Projector - 15 & 16 Mar

For those interested to see the new JVC N7 in action, I will be setting aside 2 hours to showcase this projector this Fri evening (15 Mar) at 7.30pm to 9.30pm and Sat (16 Mar) from 1pm to 3pm at my place. For those who want to see how the first JVC true 4K panel perform as compared to the previous X series, this is your chance to see the PQ for yourself and make up your own mind on whether it is worth the upgrade. I will be playing some 4K HDR footages as well as 1080p upscaling to 4K. Take note there is no e-Shift 4K at work here...

Take note though, I can only accommodate a max of 2 members for each session.

For those interested, drop me a pm. As always, I may cancel the session(s) if I'm engaged but rest assured that I will notify you beforehand

Take note, this is NOT a sales pitch for JVC as JVC didn't pay me a dime for this demo, it is purely a sharing session between home theater enthusiasts. For those interested, drop me a PM and I will get back to you.



15 Mar 19 (Fri) - Session full - Completed!
- Alf
- badbad2000


I am cancelling the Sat (16 Mar 19) session for this week.

Thank you desray for the 4k hdr demo and explanation. Enjoy my time there.


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Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #196 on: March 16, 2019, 21:07 »
Thank you desray for the 4k hdr demo and explanation. Enjoy my time there.


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Welcome.

Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #197 on: March 18, 2019, 07:39 »
Waiting to get my hands on the Panny UB-420 to try out the tone-mapping feature. I have been actively following the AVSforum thread on the JVC N series projectors and believe me, there are alot of questions and confusion in the way Panny bluray HDR Optimiser feature work with the JVC projectors at this moment. But in general, positive more than negative...but need to straighten out the facts first.

Offline ralfale

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #198 on: March 19, 2019, 23:38 »
Latest review

https://hometheaterreview.com/jvc-dla-rs2000-projector-reviewed/?page=2


Comparison and Competition
Near the RS2000's price point, only one projector comes to mind that offers true competition to the JVC: the Sony VPL-VW695ES priced at $9,999. Like the RS2000, the Sony is a native 4K HDR capable projector offering, on paper, very similar performance and features. I was fortunate enough to have both of these projectors here at the same time and was able to do a shootout between them. The most obvious difference between these two projectors was in contrast performance on darker video content. The JVC simply has more apparent contrast and a much darker level of black. Beyond that, both projectors looked remarkably similar in terms of image sharpness, native motion handling, shadow detail, and color reproduction. While the Sony gives up a little in ultimate contrast performance, it makes up for it with better video processing. Sony's motion smoothing software, called Motion Flow, offers better subjective performance and more modes over the RS2000. Input lag on the Sony, an important metric for gamers, is more than 10 ms faster. I also think Sony's smart sharpening software, called Reality Creation, does a noticeably better job compared to JVC's smart sharpening software, called Enhance in the MPC menu, for those who like to artificially sharpen the image.

If you're someone who is primarily watching movies, I'd recommend the JVC. If you're someone who plans on gaming or watching a lot of sports, I think the Sony is a better fit. Both projectors offer good performance in all areas; however, each have a small lead in these specific areas. Choosing which to buy ultimately comes down to the type of content you view more.

Those looking to upgrade from a JVC e-shift model will be pleased overall with the RS2000. While falling a little behind in contrast performance from the previous mid-tier models, it's an upgrade in most areas. Even though it's using the same lens found on previous models, I found the increase in native resolution made a large difference in perceived sharpness, image stability and three-dimensionality. Especially with UHD and HDR10 content, the RS2000 possesses a level of image finesse that overtakes anything I've witnessed from previous JVC projectors.


Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #199 on: March 20, 2019, 07:03 »
Latest review

https://hometheaterreview.com/jvc-dla-rs2000-projector-reviewed/?page=2


Comparison and Competition
Near the RS2000's price point, only one projector comes to mind that offers true competition to the JVC: the Sony VPL-VW695ES priced at $9,999. Like the RS2000, the Sony is a native 4K HDR capable projector offering, on paper, very similar performance and features. I was fortunate enough to have both of these projectors here at the same time and was able to do a shootout between them. The most obvious difference between these two projectors was in contrast performance on darker video content. The JVC simply has more apparent contrast and a much darker level of black. Beyond that, both projectors looked remarkably similar in terms of image sharpness, native motion handling, shadow detail, and color reproduction. While the Sony gives up a little in ultimate contrast performance, it makes up for it with better video processing. Sony's motion smoothing software, called Motion Flow, offers better subjective performance and more modes over the RS2000. Input lag on the Sony, an important metric for gamers, is more than 10 ms faster. I also think Sony's smart sharpening software, called Reality Creation, does a noticeably better job compared to JVC's smart sharpening software, called Enhance in the MPC menu, for those who like to artificially sharpen the image.

If you're someone who is primarily watching movies, I'd recommend the JVC. If you're someone who plans on gaming or watching a lot of sports, I think the Sony is a better fit. Both projectors offer good performance in all areas; however, each have a small lead in these specific areas. Choosing which to buy ultimately comes down to the type of content you view more.

Those looking to upgrade from a JVC e-shift model will be pleased overall with the RS2000. While falling a little behind in contrast performance from the previous mid-tier models, it's an upgrade in most areas. Even though it's using the same lens found on previous models, I found the increase in native resolution made a large difference in perceived sharpness, image stability and three-dimensionality. Especially with UHD and HDR10 content, the RS2000 possesses a level of image finesse that overtakes anything I've witnessed from previous JVC projectors.



This comparison in strengths/weaknesses between JVC and Sony has been revolving around the same set of arguments for years regardless of the models. As long as you are a movie buff, JVC is the way to go despite some of the kinks where most buyers are readily accepting it. Having say that, the recent N series models have something more up their sleeve that placed it slightly ahead of Sony in the 4K projection race...the native 4K panel. This makes a whole lot of difference.

The most value for money JVC N series projector right now is the N5 and I strongly recommend members to get their hands on the N5 over the N7 (even though I own it)...


:)

Offline ralfale

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #200 on: March 20, 2019, 09:45 »
Desray - you ordered the UB420 from amazon uk? The review also mentioned it should be a good pairing with JVC.

Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #201 on: March 20, 2019, 12:50 »
Desray - you ordered the UB420 from amazon uk? The review also mentioned it should be a good pairing with JVC.

No bro, Thks to bro WIM. He helped to bring in a unit for me from Australia. Pending collection later or this week.



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Offline econav

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #202 on: March 20, 2019, 15:42 »
AudioControl,Gallo acoustic, JVC, Ken Kreisel, Starke Sound, FocusView, Rose HiFi, Rythmik, Xgimi, Zidoo UHD2000

From time to time we may sell off New but open up used for rental/standby/loan items and to ensure they cant be sold as Brand new, we will dispose off the box.

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http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2968
Service & collection : Block 1085 #03-36 Eunos Ave 7A  whatsapp 96387418 to arrange

Offline ralfale

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Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2019, 16:05 »
No bro, Thks to bro WIM. He helped to bring in a unit for me from Australia. Pending collection later or this week.


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Nice, wait for your feedback. I am very keen on the 820 myself  but if 420 is similar if performance for PQ then no need to spend more for the higher end model.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 19:24 by desray »

Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #204 on: March 21, 2019, 08:35 »
Just setup yesterday night. I will test the HDR Optimizer with the new JVC Color Profiles and report my findings soon.




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Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #205 on: March 21, 2019, 18:31 »
Ok, spent some time in the afternoon with the Panasonic UB-420 player and I must say that the highly acclaimed HDR Optimiser feature does indeed worked on my JVC N7 nicely. For those who followed my post or AVSForum posts closely with regards to the new firmware (ver 2.01) which included 2 new color profiles - Pana_PQ_HL (High Luminance) and Pana_PQ_BL (Low Luminance), you will know JVC and Panasonic had recently collaborated to come up with the 2 new custom tone curves mapped to a low luminance display device like the JVC N series Projectors. The latest JVC projectors are what we termed as Low Luminance display as it barely hit 300 - 500 nits max for HDR content. Whether you like it or not, this is the trade-off for bigger picture. But don't let the low numbers fooled you as 300 nits if presented "right" can be very convincingly "good" for a near 2,000 lumens projector.













If you have been following my views about the conundrums of the 4K HDR display, you will know the importance of a "proper" tone-mapping for the 4K UHD media source especially for low luminance display. A poorly implemented tone-mapping will result in dim image and loss of specular highlights and details in both bright and dark scenes. Unfortunately for Projector users like us, we have to live with static meta-data (MaxCLL and MaxFALL) for now. The main difference between Dolby Vision (DV) and HDR10 are the bit rate (12-bit vs 10-bit) and (static vs dynamic metadata). Static metadata will be captured at the the very instance when the movie is played and this will form the baseline for the highest to the lowest nit levels (e.g. 9902 nits/322 nits).

Panasonic HDR Optimiser does what it supposed to do - i.e. tone-map the nit levels from the media (i.e. 4K UHD bluray title) to a more manageable level to suit the display (i.e. JVC N7 projector in this case). To achieve that, we will need to select the HDR type to "Low luminance or Projector" (at 500 nits) option and then load in a 4K HDR bluray disc into the player (UB-420). Bu doing so, it allows us to invoke the HDR Options to gain access to the HDR Optimiser function of the player.

HDR10 PQ curve vs Panasonic PQ curve - Which is better?

This is the most important comparison - i.e. to pit the overall image quality between JVC's very own tone-mapping (i.e. HDR10 PQ) and Panasonic's very own tone-mapping. Both will have HDR Optimizer enabled by default. I have picked Antman and the Wasp 4K UHD bluray disc to test out the scenes. Why Antman and the Wasp? The reason I chose Antman and the Wasp was because this title does not have a MAxCLL and MaxFALL static metadata for JVC N7 to work on as such there is no way to activate the auto tone-mapping feature of the projector. With the HDR Optimiser turned off, the image was dim with a heavy overcast. Even in bright day scenes, JVC struggles to show the details of various scenes. Huge disappointment. When I enabled HDR Optimiser, the image suddenly comes to life with more brightness and highlights in the skin tones and the colors became more vibrant. I also realized that HDR Optimiser when enabled allowed JVC N7 to activate the auto tone-mapping and with the setting turned on, the JVC N7 performed a tone-mapping to scale its luminance level down to 500 nits (MaxCLL / oddly no MaxFALL info though).

I then switched to new Pana_PQ_HL (at 500 nits) which in this case will deactivate the JVC N7 tone-mapping feature so as to allow the UB-420 to take over the rein in tone-mapping. The image quality is very close between the HDR10 PQ curve (with JVC taking over the tone-mapping) and the Pana_PQ_HL curve (with UB-420 player taking over the tone-mapping). Upon closer inspection and playing through more scenes, I found that I actually preferred JVC auto tone-mapping over the so-called new Pana_PQ_HL custom curve. The HL curve simulates closely to the JVC HDR PQ curve as there is no engagement of a DCI-P3 color filter. However for some reasons, JVC auto tone-mapping did a much better job in most of the scenes compared to Pana_PQ_HL tone curve.

I will need to try out more titles to see if there is any more "significant" improvements in using the custom Pana_PQ_HL curve - for instance to load a disc with static metadata like Aquaman. I will report back with more findings...
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 19:11 by desray »

Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #206 on: March 21, 2019, 23:08 »
Re-watched The Avengers Infinity War...and there are many scenes in this movie which really make the UB-420 shine. Here's an example of Loki holding on a Tesseract in his hand. Look at the glow with and without HDR Optimiser. The outline of the glow within the Tesseract is more visible with the HDR Optimiser was engaged. The strength of using Panny's HDR Optimiser is the fact that it DOES NOT affect the overall picture brightness but focus on the peak brightness in certain intra-scene and re-mapping the tone to make it work for a low luminance display (Projector) without losing the specular highlights.


HDR Optimiser set to "off"


HDR Optimiser set to "on"

I also discovered that some titles worked better with Pana_PQ_HL tone curve while others worked better with JVC's own tone-mapping engaged (e.g. Antman & the Wasp). In this case, The Avengers Infinity War have better contrast and black levels with Pana_PQ_HL curve.
In short, it will still very much depends on the content.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 23:17 by desray »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #207 on: March 24, 2019, 12:30 »
Nice impression from Panasonic ! Looks good for the price

How is the sound quality ? Is the ub420 able to playback iso files on its USB connections , as in full bd menu vis a usd3 hard disk

Offline desray

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #208 on: March 24, 2019, 21:17 »
Nice impression from Panasonic ! Looks good for the price

How is the sound quality ? Is the ub420 able to playback iso files on its USB connections , as in full bd menu vis a usd3 hard disk

Nope...BD-420 don't do BD ISO. Sound quality is fine...my Pioneer LX-500 is better in the sound department.

Offline kikoman

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Re: Official Thread: JVC N Series Native 4K Projectors
« Reply #209 on: March 25, 2019, 08:04 »
Nope...BD-420 don't do BD ISO. Sound quality is fine...my Pioneer LX-500 is better in the sound department.


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