Author Topic: Lyngdorf thread  (Read 17780 times)

Offline desray

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2019, 12:26 »
Nice... ;)

Offline sdds

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2019, 15:13 »

Online kaydee6

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2019, 14:36 »
I have not done any measurements, haven’t had the time. Must have a look at the before and after response. He did mention many other things as well

1. It’s also good practice to measure what RP is doing, after calibration. There may be a need to manually tweak to enhance the system further, so fine tuning is still required. He mentioned the RP does integration of mains and subs very well, there is no need for any distance tweaks or adjustment, but it’s good practice to check and fine tune further

2. He also advise using a higher crossover of subs with mains, somewhere into 160hz to 300hz !! An octave above at least, I went like Wow! Won’t u be able to localise the subs ?? He said no! With the front left right pair, you won’t be able to localise . I believe this is where all the moving bass is happening , bass moving circular motion and up left down and right , when using  the auxiliary bass connection to send stereo bass and LFE to the lyngdorf mp50

3. He mentioned bass is missing on the right area, a lot of energy could be felt at the stacked location, this is before RP. So he said try different options and listen to what u like then decide

4. He mentioned lyndorf corrects for full response 20hz up to 20khz. No Schroeder EQ and no options to altar frequency range to be EQ. It will always EQ full range, but we can bypass RP with a button.

5. On subwoofer distance, he mentioned to put in the distance up to the back of the subs from MLP, the first reflection point off that boundary wall to MLP. He mentioned the algorithm will do the work when it comes to blending the subs and phase and time, as it measures the power response of the speakers and subs and applies filters accordingly.

I saw him nodding his head many times, when demoing the system. He said entire system is well placed, speakers and that the mains and surrounds imaging is good. This is before RP

Can’t wait, will take actual measurements soon and lets see what’s happening with RP

Did you set to the high XO as per Lyngdorf's recommendation? Did he explain in detail why no option to limit correction?

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2019, 19:08 »
My 8 channel Apollon amp will be arriving SG this week, so now tidying up cables etc

My subs are only good up to 200hz... so I’ll try with mains at 120hz, surrounds 140, Atmos 160... that’s for stereo bass redirected from mains

LFE channel will still be at 125hz Low pass filtered

I’ll be doing the system EQ using my approach with REW, manual tweaking of subs before RP. I will write down in detail the steps and how I integrate the entire system

Once that is complete, I’ll let RP do what it does best, integrating mains+surrounds+Atmos with subs and setting the group delays. This is where the RP is very good , TIMING!

Engineer mentioned that RP EQs the system “ Full Range” to maintain the coherence and tonality of the overall system. There is no option to EQ to Schroeder. I believe this is the better approach especially when the RP’s focus for correction is in the time domain, it’s algorithm is able to maintain the naturality of the entire system. You just don’t hear the type of “EQ” sound heard on many systems

I hope some of the EQ steps I’ll detail here will also help to shed some light , approach will be as follows

1. Blending in dual subs phase aligning, then time aligning using the impulse response
2. Gain matching, sub optimisation using Biquad to eliminate peaks and room modes
3. Mains, surrounds and Atmos distance settings using the acoustic timing reference
4. Room perfect equalisation
5. Measuring to confirm results, phase, impulse, spectrogram and fine tuning further for perfect alignment ( chances are nothing much to do)
6. Target curves manipulation to suit taste vide the voicing profile
7. Maximising headroom, absolute SPLs, distortion, compression tests
8. Actual listening

Once I’ve completed the above exercise,I believe I’ll understand the Lyngdorf better and hopefully help all other lyngdorf users here . So far I’ve liked what I heard on the global EQ profile

Online kaydee6

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2019, 20:49 »
I want to visit you. :)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2019, 22:37 »
Here are some videos for easy understanding below:

It is very true, exactly what I’m experiencing now, the transient Attack and speed from the 18” seatons is unbelievable ... many more things to share soon as I’ve been discovering many things with this RP, it is brilliant stuff . As it stands now, it is a clear winner for me. Dirac has also taken note on timing and integration trying to improve the algorithm, I believe more updates are coming soon... the bass management on new Dirac will be the first interesting improvement this year . It’s important to note that Dirac and RP both works good in correcting the impulse response, the difference is RP focuses on the timing response whilst Dirac focuses on amplitude response . Do also note that timing response is not the same as time alignment of speakers and subs.

Another thing to note is that during test tones (sounds like some halloweeen Friday the 13th music)  for calibration, sub channels and respective individual channels are working in tandem and active, this is where I think blending of speakers with subs at the Crossover region is seamless

My personal experience as of now:
Room perfect > Dirac live > audyssey XT32 > Audyssey XT > Accueq > YPAO

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/RaWNtz3ToyA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/RaWNtz3ToyA&fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NpNTWK7c_uA&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NpNTWK7c_uA&fs=1</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/EqwXGBz7TzY&amp;feature=youtu.be&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/EqwXGBz7TzY&amp;feature=youtu.be&fs=1</a>

updated to show calibration video above
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 13:46 by ronildoq »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2019, 09:02 »
One more thing I forgot to mention, to bring out the best for RP, it is not ideal to place the corner bass traps exactly where the subwoofers are placed. Use dihedral mount along the walls, these are way more effective and better sonically , something like this pic below, where I have circled it in black



Corner traps should be placed ideally at opposing trihedral corners where no subwoofers are in place. This is where excessive energy gets accumulated in the room.

Remember, the RP focus is on the timing and response from the first instance of impulse , together with the mains. To bring out the best, this boundary load is highly recommended. Facing the Drivers against the wall is also recommended !

Mains should also be along the largest front wall, straight up placed all the way to the front wall. The same for surround speakers. Ports plugged, if any. Do not worry about speaker boundary interference, that will shift the null to a higher frequency where this will be Handled by RP, the main idea behind placing it straight up to the wall, is for better acoustics providing more output with boundary gain and way less distortion and reflections to tame , this is then easier for RP to EQ and blend the subs and ALL the speakers in the room. When the nulls and dips from mains are all shifted to a higher frequency >300hz, the mains and subs work in tandem, and the speed and Attack from bass is achieved, it’s like small brother woofer from mains pushing the upper mid bass supported by big broher f18 from behind...

Very clever room correction technique

The other I found significant is what’s directly above you, absorption directly above you in your MLP is also preferred, so I don’t use any diffuser directly above MLP

Getting the bass right is so critical , especially in a home environment, this is the most challenging and obvious sound improvement from the lyngdorf to other processors , the bass management is very very good , second to none . Remember, we are not in a cinema, we are at home, and the room perfect nails it absolutely spot on for my home

Also there is no need to pay excessive calibrators fees for those high end processors, it’s just so simple. Run it and everytime it is perfect! Really room perfect indeed

Can’t wait to wrap it up and start enjoying the beautiful sound from the mp50




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Offline ronildoq

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Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2019, 14:14 »
Apollon 8200c 8 channel hypex Ncore 252 class D  in the house. This will support all 8 channels Atmos speakers, all crossed at 160hz xo on the Lyngdorf , seatons 18” will be playing stereo bass up to 160hz ...







Before that took all the necessary measurements using the acoustic timing reference ... I’ll share soon

Meantime now tidying up and labelling all the cables



Need to finish tidying up all the cables, midnight will run room perfect

Oh yea, room perfect runs at 85db, using -20dbfs “Friday the 13th” test tones , so it’s 10db louder... unlike audyssey and Dirac test tones that uses -30dbfs and calibrates at 75db




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« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 14:18 by ronildoq »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #98 on: February 18, 2019, 08:32 »
Technical glitch along the way. When I hooked up the system, no sound out from 2 of the rear TOP Atmos, I thought I made sure of all the connections. Then I swapped it with other channels and sound came back but that other channel sound was not present instead. Nothing wrong with Lyngdorf or settings. So I wrote to Apollon and he told me to open up the amp to check for loose cables. There were only 6 screws and look what I found



One of the cables came out, no wonder I wasn’t having sound on channel 5&6 on the Atmos.

Hooked it right back up and voila, all was working again



Some nicely done amp, see the internal



The binding post behind used ETI



Casing is also cool all the time with this class D amplifier

Now all 8 channels Atmos is connected to this Apollon, all using the same XO 160hz.

TOP front speakers Drivers fires sideways left and right.

Front height speakers mounted right on TOP, firing downwards towards MLP ear position

TOP centre driver fires towards SMT diffusor places at the left and right position

TOP rear driver fires exactly behind the MLP, not towards ear

Surround back fires towards ear position

Atmos driver alignment is now complete.

All measurements taken using rew acoustic timing reference to input distance now lyngdorf, I will share how I do it tonight when I get home and have access to my laptop

Speakers are all in place now, mains pushed way back towards boundary as can be seen below



This method is used with Lyngdorf running RP as explained in the above post. It is NOT ideal for Dirac live and audyssey. Even so if you don’t have the tools to measure. Plus the SMT wings diffusor I’m using works in nearfield, so no issues there . It’s not the same if it’s QRD diffusors, those need space

Finally plugged in the ports of the speakers...

Note: previously I was using spikes for the centre speakers, it didn’t sound as good. To counter the reflective surface on the console, I’ve used an acoustic absorptive high density foam board 3.8cm thick. This absorbs the reflections off the tv console as seen above.

Ps:// thanks bro NGSK for the foam board, I’ll see u this Sunday for demo and Apollon monoblocks. U gotta hear it yourself !  Hope I don’t poison u! Lol


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Offline ngsk

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2019, 10:39 »
Sure bro,will bring the Apollon NC800SL dual mono amp down for u to test. ;D ;D ;D

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #100 on: February 18, 2019, 13:37 »
Sure bro,will bring the Apollon NC800SL dual mono amp down for u to test. ;D ;D ;D

The Apollon Amp is damn good, replaced it with the Emotiva. Immediately I can tell the quality just running RP from the calibration tones. The atmos speakers above sound very clean and dynamic. very nice imaging panning left right front back, the GAP is filled with the addition of the Top Front used in conjunction with Front Heights. Before this it was with emotiva and it wasnt as detailed. This Apollon one seems to have very low noise. I think its partly to do also with using a higher XO at 160hz. I think the atmos speakers are cruising, made a big difference. Im sure you are enjoying the Dual Monoblocks on the 800SL with Sonic Imagery 990ENH TICHA Discrete OP Amps, really good stuff for its price. A lot more poison coming for you...you can standby for Atmos upgrade in the not too distant future... lol

Im also eagerly waiting to see how it fares against the emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks. Lets see this Sunday.

There is nothing much to do after RP really. It just sounds perfect. Now i just need to tweak the voicing for house curve preference. Will load in one for intense midbass and another for intense deepbass and the 3rd for balanced.

I think its good to have separate voicings. So when watching HK movies Donnnie Yen type, i can switch to midbass profile. Then when watching hollywood action type of movies, switch it to deep bass profile. All others just use the balanced profile.

Very nice customisable voicing options from lyngdorf, can be adjusted on the fly.....

I have also updated the disadvantages and places for improvement on the lyngdorf on the 1st page, as and when i come across them, so all lyngdorf users will be aware on the shortcomings for this MP-50.

Tweaking stage in progress now.....

Offline Djblackfm

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #101 on: February 18, 2019, 15:19 »
Hello All,

I'm another happy owner of Lyngdorf. Been often finding ronildoq for recommendations & help along the way. Really grateful with his help on my journey. As much is being said. I would like to share this clip I did at my place. Hope it helps you on listening the differences

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=14kDPvEknabivwmg20umno9s0UhcrM_op



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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #102 on: February 18, 2019, 17:50 »
Congrats ! Welcome to the club, do share your findings on the lyngdorf  as well

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #103 on: February 18, 2019, 19:50 »
Bro, try a higher XO and use the auxiliary sub connection! The bass is awesome, moving together with surrounds and Atmos, amazing experience.

The true legend clip that I’m testing for years, is providing something I’ve never experienced before in midbass, the bass imaging moving is so immersive

I’ve just tested some of the clips . Damn good, haven’t even fine tuned


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Offline Djblackfm

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #104 on: February 18, 2019, 21:25 »
Bro, try a higher XO and use the auxiliary sub connection! The bass is awesome, moving together with surrounds and Atmos, amazing experience.

The true legend clip that I’m testing for years, is providing something I’ve never experienced before in midbass, the bass imaging moving is so immersive

I’ve just tested some of the clips . Damn good, haven’t even fine tuned


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Bro, right now my settings are 80hz for the 5ch & svs elevation are 120hz. 4subs are as your advice on auxiliary sub connection. Shall try higher crossover over the weekends. You did up any voicings yet?
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