Author Topic: Lyngdorf thread  (Read 38037 times)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #270 on: May 15, 2020, 23:39 »
V 3.9 ready, smooth sailing like a smooth criminal

SW 3.9.0
- Added feature to download / upload single voicings. Voicing available for download from our webpages.
- Updated driver names for Control4 drivers
- Bugfix: Factory Reset fail under certain (rare) circumstances
- Values for Tone Controls, Level Trims and Loudness are now saved between sessions
- Noise when using Auro upmix on dolby digital – fixed.
- Bugfix: No sound at start-up in connection with control systems 
- Bugfix: Zone 2ch Analog Input  fails when selecting new Decoder input


ive re-run the system calibration with the v3.9 firmware loaded, when i re-calibrated the line source woofers to remove the high pass filters. So far so good, sounds fantastic. REFERENCE stuff................ No issues so far, seem ok, good to go for the upgrade!

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #271 on: June 03, 2020, 22:46 »
What’s also updated on 3.9 firmware

Note regarding RoomPerfect gains in installer menu – “Channel gain” page:
/The RoomPerfect levels you see on the gains page, have been normalized in recent Software. That means the channel that plays the loudest is displayed as 0dB.
 //So the absolute number is not important, what you can see from them, is the difference between the channels. And if LFE is 0dB, that means it's the one we've measured to be the highest. If he looks at the differences between the channels, they should be the same as with old SW.
 

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #272 on: June 05, 2020, 09:06 »
V3.9 firmware seems to be very good. Lesser issues with ATV4K. Or maybe because there is hd fury in between. No idea but the “No sound” part from ATV4K is gone . V3.7 had this problem . ( the workaround previously was to switch to a different source and switch back to ATV for the sound to kick in)

There is also notable improvement in room correction, although there is no need to recalibrate the system with the new version 3.9, somehow I notice there is a lot more control on the Low end with v3.9 after my recent calibration with the line source woofers . It maybe because of better time alignment after I removed the high pass filters for the line source , maybe.... some factors have changed, so not really sure which is providing the improvement

The graphs didn’t tell much, but the sound does, so there maybe something done in v3.9 that is improving the room perfect side of things

Safe to stay on , on this version of firmware for the MP50 . Seem to be the most stable and LFE channel balance is also correct.

Great job lyngdorf, u r listening to us !

Offline htkaki

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #273 on: June 28, 2020, 21:55 »
Hi guys,

Just got the MP-60. After I ran the RoomPerfect, I notice that the Focus 1 gain (ave 13) is around 5db than Global. I have yet to run channel level check. A short test at -12dB is noticable louder than my previous processor. It even clipped the top rear during my short test using Ready Player One scene 2. I suspect that I could have not turn up the volume high enough (-30) prior to start RoomPerfect. At -40, it says too low. What level that you guys used?

Was thinking to do it again at -20. Or, I will trim the channel level.

Thanks a lot

Offline Djblackfm

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #274 on: June 28, 2020, 22:30 »
Hi guys,

Just got the MP-60. After I ran the RoomPerfect, I notice that the Focus 1 gain (ave 13) is around 5db than Global. I have yet to run channel level check. A short test at -12dB is noticable louder than my previous processor. It even clipped the top rear during my short test using Ready Player One scene 2. I suspect that I could have not turn up the volume high enough (-30) prior to start RoomPerfect. At -40, it says too low. What level that you guys used?

Was thinking to do it again at -20. Or, I will trim the channel level.

Thanks a lot
Hi htkaki,

I used either -35 or -38 MV on the calibration volume. Any chance how did you notice it was clipping?

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Offline htkaki

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #275 on: June 28, 2020, 23:15 »
Sudden loud distortion that took me by surprise. Anyhow, I have yet to do channel level check. Will run the Dolby call-out channel test.

I just read through almost all pages. Seems like I need to redo the distance by using REW (like ronildoq mentioned) instead of relying on actual measurement.

Offline Djblackfm

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #276 on: June 28, 2020, 23:19 »
Sudden loud distortion that took me by surprise. Anyhow, I have yet to do channel level check. Will run the Dolby call-out channel test.

I just read through almost all pages. Seems like I need to redo the distance by using REW (like ronildoq mentioned) instead of relying on actual measurement.
Yes. Using rew to get the distance is a better choice. Following ronildoq advise and teaching you won't go wrong. Can share your journey here

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Offline htkaki

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #277 on: June 29, 2020, 12:12 »
What’s also updated on 3.9 firmware

Note regarding RoomPerfect gains in installer menu – “Channel gain” page:
/The RoomPerfect levels you see on the gains page, have been normalized in recent Software. That means the channel that plays the loudest is displayed as 0dB.
 //So the absolute number is not important, what you can see from them, is the difference between the channels. And if LFE is 0dB, that means it's the one we've measured to be the highest. If he looks at the differences between the channels, they should be the same as with old SW.
 

Hi Ronildoq,

If I understand this correctly, this means the channel with 0db as RP is the loudest of all channels. This will be used as reference for trim level? Will use Dolby tones to do. TIA

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #278 on: June 29, 2020, 16:12 »
Hi Ronildoq,

If I understand this correctly, this means the channel with 0db as RP is the loudest of all channels. This will be used as reference for trim level? Will use Dolby tones to do. TIA

Yes your understanding is correct. What might be of interest to you is that in the RP correction process, the algorithm aims for a 85db spl at 0 volume using a -20dbfs Signal.

In my case where I use all 4 auxiliary Connections for subwoofers to produce this “ physchoacoustic bass steering” , they (All 4 subs) get “leveled” to 85db as well. This makes overall volume much much softter as we know that when all subs sum in phase, technically we should see a 12db gain down Low frequency , assuming they have  all been gained matched to 85db

So to compensate for this, I will adjust the volume on the subwoofer amp plate to get to my desired levels . But do this only if you have a meter and u know what you are doing

Offline htkaki

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #279 on: June 29, 2020, 21:58 »
Yes your understanding is correct. What might be of interest to you is that in the RP correction process, the algorithm aims for a 85db spl at 0 volume using a -20dbfs Signal.

In my case where I use all 4 auxiliary Connections for subwoofers to produce this “ physchoacoustic bass steering” , they (All 4 subs) get “leveled” to 85db as well. This makes overall volume much much softter as we know that when all subs sum in phase, technically we should see a 12db gain down Low frequency , assuming they have  all been gained matched to 85db

So to compensate for this, I will adjust the volume on the subwoofer amp plate to get to my desired levels . But do this only if you have a meter and u know what you are doing
Got it. Can you share your channel gain result?

Also, on the distance measurement, I use REW acoustic timing reference. Chose the closest spkr which is SBL (set as 0). Strangely, the result for the other speakers are mostly in the negative except top front right. In this instance, shall I use  reverse it by using the channel with the highest negative (as 0) ?

When I did this, I noticed that the ceiling speakers are almost 7-10db louder. I have yet to do channel leveling though.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #280 on: June 30, 2020, 09:23 »
Got it. Can you share your channel gain result?

Also, on the distance measurement, I use REW acoustic timing reference. Chose the closest spkr which is SBL (set as 0). Strangely, the result for the other speakers are mostly in the negative except top front right. In this instance, shall I use  reverse it by using the channel with the highest negative (as 0) ?

When I did this, I noticed that the ceiling speakers are almost 7-10db louder. I have yet to do channel leveling though.

U don’t have to do the reverse, but u can if you want. It’s actually the same, the numbers as a result from ATR, allows u to delay the Timing Of the reference speaker instead. Whichever u use will work. Either u use the furthest speakers as ATR and delay all the near speakers, or u use the nearest speaker as ATR, and delay the reference speaker itself, or add distance to speed up the time of other speakers. It depends on the controls available to you

But with the processor mp50, adding distance speeds up the time instead. So when u use the nearest speaker as ATR, u r telling the processor that the further speaker is x timing away, processor needs to send the signal earlier. So u input the distance on the further speakers, so the avr will send the signal earlier to match the nearest speaker instead

At the end of the day, the distance need not be the measured distance from speaker to MLP. What it needs is to have a reference point(MLP), where the signal is sent out at the same time to this spot from all the speakers and subwoofer. When u can achieve this together with all the subwoofers, then you are on the right track

It’s good to know u r using this approach for your system integration. It’s the best approach from my personal findings . There is still work To be done before room perfect, it’s not just one click button go out for coffee come back and everything is done. 

Good job !

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #281 on: September 02, 2020, 22:37 »
Oh now I recall something. If you are using the Oppo video out directly to PJ, and audio in only to the lyngdorf, turn off the hdmi video in , circled in green



Only use hdmi audio in, circled in blue , eliminate sending the video signal, that will have varying clock times



I’m using this method for both ATV4K and Oppo 205. The video is sent to a HD fury, which then sends the video only signal to the Pj.

A secondary hdmi, which carries the audio signal only of Oppo 205, goes to the lyngdorf directly, the audio part for ATV4K, comes from the hd fury eARC/ARC port, they are all separate, each for video and audio

This method of connection, helps reduce jitter

Definition of jitter

The question is not about whether HDMI can carry digital audio data accurately in a bit-for-bit perfect sense (it can!), but whether it can deliver the data bits at perfect time intervals based on the original audio clock timing. When data bits arrive at slightly varying time intervals, the problem is called "jitter" and it has negative impact on the quality of converting the audio data back to audible sound, a process called digital-to-analogue conversion.

TIMING , TIMING , TIMING....

This one word rules them all



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Offline armyplace

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #282 on: September 11, 2020, 08:30 »
Hi everyone,

So I've taken the plunge and will be receiving my MP-60 soon.

It's advisable to use REW to level match and set distances before i start RP?

Also currently I have 2 subs, I intend to put them both in Front L + R corner and then I have another custom horm sub being made for the back right corner.

My main use is 70% HT 30% music. I've read most of the Lyngdorf threads here and in other forums (Avsforum/avforum) and there appears to be some debate on how to setup multiple subs.

Either we have all 3 of my subs set as LFE - for more even room response (standard way) OR

Set Front L and Front R as Aux 1 and 2 for stereo boundary bass (effectively making my F and L speaker a full range speaker as they will be set to small) and the third subwoofer in the back R corner to be using LFE channel.

Has anyone compared both and what was the conclusion?

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #283 on: September 11, 2020, 09:35 »
Hi everyone,

So I've taken the plunge and will be receiving my MP-60 soon.

It's advisable to use REW to level match and set distances before i start RP?

Also currently I have 2 subs, I intend to put them both in Front L + R corner and then I have another custom horm sub being made for the back right corner.

My main use is 70% HT 30% music. I've read most of the Lyngdorf threads here and in other forums (Avsforum/avforum) and there appears to be some debate on how to setup multiple subs.

Either we have all 3 of my subs set as LFE - for more even room response (standard way) OR

Set Front L and Front R as Aux 1 and 2 for stereo boundary bass (effectively making my F and L speaker a full range speaker as they will be set to small) and the third subwoofer in the back R corner to be using LFE channel.

Has anyone compared both and what was the conclusion?

Congratulations 🥳 !! Not really cheap processor, but it’s worth it . To fully realise it’s potential, you must use rew with the acoustic timing reference feature to set the distance. The guides mention using a tape measure, but what you really want to factor in is amplifier latency.

On the new firmware, this is provided. So together with amplifier latency + measured distance, one can easily provide the values. ( u will need to check with manufacturer on the latency if you are not sure) generally, it is between 1-2ms, but can go up to 3-4ms depending on what is connected in between

You can try either options. But I would get a 4th subwoofer and place all subs at each corner, using auxiliary 1-4, then assign them as LR front, and LR back respectively

This creates something called physchoacoustic bass steering , very desirable for HT

All 4 subs will handle LFE at the same times. ( don’t have to plug anything into LFE).What is important here, is to use a negative -10db trim on the individual subs before EQ, and instead, raise the level knobs on the subwoofer amplifier so each individual sub is reading 75db spl at MLP . This is more than sufficient level to prevent any clipping in the digital domain (the mp60)

All you need to do, is to time align all 4 subs to MLP, get their distances then proceed with room perfect. Room perfect will work it’s magic to align every speaker to the research subwoofers. The topic for time alignment is for another day, but can be found in planet bass

Offline armyplace

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #284 on: September 11, 2020, 10:24 »
Thanks, quite exciting!

I have dual X12 subs so the people on Avforum have been given the latency figures for that sub model already. In order for me to level match and set the trim, I do need a minidsp balanced device and set the levels before RP then, or it is jew REW + acoustic timing reference feature.

 

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