Author Topic: Lyngdorf thread  (Read 13703 times)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #150 on: March 14, 2019, 18:29 »
Further confirmed updates. Recently I swapped in to use the minidsp ddrc88a using Dirac live to EQ the subs and then use RP to calibrate the system as 1.

The results were far from satisfactory.

On the amplitude response , it was good, but time domain measurements not so. RP then just literally undo what Dirac did, it somehow reversed and adjusted for a better time response. Though the amplitude response was slightly better, but time domain adjustments weren’t as good. Having Dirac just messes up the whole thing. Immediately the transient Attack from the 18” subs were gone.

So again back to square one !! Connect directly to the LFE using splitters and manually adjust delay / phase on the subwoofers finding the best blend before EQ, that gave the best results

With the above, I’ve now completed my experiment work on the mp50 and understand better now on how to bring out the best in this processor

Once I’ve completed dialing in the subs, it’s demo time !


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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #151 on: March 18, 2019, 19:47 »
Reading through avs thread on lyngdorf then I saw this



Few years ago I avoided using Monoprice hdmi, quality is horrible and lotsa issue, causes Denon avr to fail also... today this chap is a bit unlucky...


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Offline BlurRhino

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #152 on: March 18, 2019, 22:06 »
I am curious how the cables will cause the HDMI ports to fail?

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #153 on: March 19, 2019, 08:13 »
I am curious how the cables will cause the HDMI ports to fail?


Don’t be surprised. The monoprice ones are using redmere chip, I suspect the chip in it causes it. It happened on all 3 sets, my set, my uncles and my uncles friend’s. All Denon previously. Luckily all on warranty. Sent to Denon replaced with new hdmi boards. What is the probability of all 3 failing at the same time ? Was pretty clear to us

Plus we were very careful, swapping them out after some time for the static to discharge itself

After that we confirmed it’s the Monoprice hdmi. So we stopped using it.

that’s my personal experience , quality is lousy, not even decent. There are so many choices at equivalent price

So when swapping cable, the hdmi cable can actually damage the hdmi board. It has got some sort of static charge.




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Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #154 on: March 19, 2019, 08:40 »
Ok, confirmed measurement , simulated amplitude response not as accurate, the room Sim is. But for amplitude, not so accurate

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Ok sorry folks, I need to correct this statement. The REW’s simulated amplitude response does work actually. If you r running version 5.19 and above, you have this option. So I’m on 5.20 beta 6.

The reason why it didn’t work for me previously was because one of the woofer f18 had an air leak. The air leak messes up the amplitude response. So that’s the reason.

This approach will save u literally hours of time finding the best combination between subs and the pair

1) measure the individual subs response at its various locations. (Ie front wall, left wall, back wall, corner, etc) whichever possible positions. Just individual subs response to see what it’s doing at its location. Save this file it will be very very useful



Under settings you can see trace arithmetic, use this for example, sub a at front corner + sub B at back of MLP

Click the button generate, it will show you the best phase matched combination of the two subwoofers



See this above, simulated colocated subs response vs actual measurements of colocated subs, almost identical



Once you have that, you can also add simulated response with simulated response to get the combination of the pairs



The above shows simulated pair + simulated pair combined response vs actual measurements of all 4 subs with best delay combination

Very good indeed rew. Saved me literally hours of moving the subs around

Armed with this information, it’s much more easier for me to dial in the subs knowing exactly which place I should put the subs for the best combination

As always, I hope the above will help you in your journey. Feel free to shoot your questions


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Offline bluepill193

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #155 on: March 19, 2019, 08:44 »
Monoprice HDMI sucks. Ordered 2 pcs of non-redmere cables from Amazon. One DOA  and the other died after a few months.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #156 on: March 19, 2019, 09:02 »
Monoprice HDMI sucks. Ordered 2 pcs of non-redmere cables from Amazon. One DOA  and the other died after a few months.

See, told u, I found out like 4-5 years ago...quality damn lousy, I mean, really lousy...

I don’t hold anything against Monoprice, but for me it’s realh lousy . It not only didn’t work, but spoiled my equipment, dare not use it after that

Offline ralfale

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #157 on: March 19, 2019, 10:02 »
Nice sharing Bryan! Very informative thread on concepts and measurements.

Offline BlurRhino

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #158 on: March 19, 2019, 10:03 »
It’s quite scary to hear that cables can damage components in this way.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #159 on: March 19, 2019, 13:40 »
Nice sharing Bryan! Very informative thread on concepts and measurements.

 ;) its the best must have tool ever, minidsp's UMIK-1, with REW. USD75 cannot ask for more

I try to share as much so everyone here will benefit. i still remember till today, when i needed help, i got all the help from Jag. So am still very thankful until today. Its my turn to help now :)

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #160 on: March 19, 2019, 13:43 »
It’s quite scary to hear that cables can damage components in this way.

Indeed. Luckily mine was a denon, way back. Cant imagine if its the lyngdorf, will have to send it back to Denmark....

There is one particular Moshou HDMI brand, so claimed HDMI 2.1 cable, that cable is very good, able to carry the bandwidth etc. Not expensive as well. Ive tested it plays flawlessly on 12k material, colour is also good and less grainy.... Not bad for the price, from China

Offline wizardofoz

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #161 on: March 19, 2019, 22:48 »
I’ve used many of the thin active monoprice (redmere) cables with my Emotiva XMC and Umc before that and no issues. When I upgrade I’ll maybe have to look for something different.
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.

Offline whitesox

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #162 on: March 20, 2019, 00:59 »

Don’t be surprised. The monoprice ones are using redmere chip, I suspect the chip in it causes it. It happened on all 3 sets, my set, my uncles and my uncles friend’s. All Denon previously. Luckily all on warranty. Sent to Denon replaced with new hdmi boards. What is the probability of all 3 failing at the same time ? Was pretty clear to us

Plus we were very careful, swapping them out after some time for the static to discharge itself

After that we confirmed it’s the Monoprice hdmi. So we stopped using it.

that’s my personal experience , quality is lousy, not even decent. There are so many choices at equivalent price

So when swapping cable, the hdmi cable can actually damage the hdmi board. It has got some sort of static charge.


I bought HDMI cable from Robert @ SLT (8m).
He recommended using HDMI cable with the redmere chip (cable has no brand). He reminded me to take note on the orientation.
Brought it back and never think this cable will cause me trouble.

Holyshit... when I used starhub setup-box to test this cable, it burned my Starhub setup-box although I plug in very carefully (OFF everything and noted on the orientation)
Lucky me, I didn't plug in directly to my HT setup and I got a replacement black-box from Starhub for free.
 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 01:51 by whitesox »

Offline ronildoq

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #163 on: March 21, 2019, 11:59 »
side tracked on HDMI a bit, now back to Lyngdorf and more things to keep a look out. Ive gained my experience mostly from using the software REW and helping other members in the forum, whenever i can. One thing ive noticed that even an experienced HT enthusiasts also gets wrong when setting up the subs, is the absolute polarity on the subs. Im sharing this for your knowledge, so it will help bring out the best in your system.

Take a look at this graph below.



It shows a nice response of corner placed subs + side placed subs nicely adding up in Phase.

However when you look at the impulse to check for polarity, you notice this.........



when you look at the impulse response overlaid, the polarity of one of the sub is 180 degrees out. If you have 2 Low Frequency sources of differing phase relationships (that means timing relationships) they will cancel. And if they are "in phase", but 1, 2, 3 or more full cycles (that means wavelengths) shifted, (that means 360 or 720 or 1080 degrees out of phase) then the overall frequency response will not seem bad but the impulse response and clarity and focus will be smeared. They may seem to be in phase, but the fact is that they are shifted in time, 360 degrees or 720 shifted in time out of phase to sum

In the above example, it sounds like the bass frequencies are good and nicely done in the frequency domain but the IMPULSE RESPONSE is now muddied. Timing is affected

having the correct matched polarity matters for dual subs, this can be easily done with the Minidsp DDRC there is actually an Invert button like this



Or on certain subs there is a switch for polarity, invert that and you can verify if subs are having a matched polarity.

So here is an example of a sub with matched Polarity. Noticed the first rise of the impulse is both Positive, compared to the first pic above. These two subs are in polarity. :)

This shows good time alignment of both subs, though a 1 ms on Left (green) sub will be perfect



as you can see from above, a phased matched system will not tell you anything at all looking at the just the amplitude response alone, time domain measurements are far more critical.

Hope the above helps! ;) as usual, feel free to shoot any questions

Offline wizardofoz

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Re: Lyngdorf thread
« Reply #164 on: March 21, 2019, 12:07 »
Same would apply to a single sub in a setup where full range mains can go low too. 
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.