Author Topic: WAF friendly sound absorption material  (Read 1567 times)

Offline wechnivag

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 15:07 »
Just a thought:
If one has soft blackout curtains on one side of the room, and a set of open shelves on the other side, what's the effect?
I understand soft curtains only absorb a bit of the higher frequency, how about the bookshelves?
The curtains would be predominantly absorbant, mid highs upwards, while the bookshelves are reflective and scattering.

Will probably hear an imbalance in the sound stage, image pulls to one side etc.

To Pete's original question, the most WAF product IMO is the BAD panel by Rpg. Our resident sifu Joamonte has some listed in Carousell. I have never used BAD myself but they are good conceptually.



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« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 15:21 by wechnivag »

Offline wizardofoz

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 16:20 »
SL has some words on all this room stuff here


http://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm


and here is very good reading too http://www.linkwitzlab.com/best_rooms.htm
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 17:21 by wizardofoz »
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 17:03 »
If you r serious about sound quality, the the SMT S Wings is the real deal here, tried and tested, superb quality. I highly recommend this over QRD or skyline or some made in China or any other diffusers. This one is damn solid. Really really good, I’m getting 4x 120x60 panels and 2x 60x60 to flank the centre. 2 behind MLP and one each behind mains. But the replies are very slow from Matts, SMT Europe



As Long as you have $$ and willing to spend, any living room or room can be done up nicely, just need the $$$

Few pics to drool



Recent one done with backlights



Transparent version






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Offline ronildoq

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 23:26 »
Something to ponder.... I totally agree with him....the right stuff and material with proper placement, makes A Whole lot of difference

http://www.highendnews.info/reviews/svana_acoustic_treatments.htm


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Offline petetherock

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 23:38 »
The curtains would be predominantly absorbant, mid highs upwards, while the bookshelves are reflective and scattering.

Will probably hear an imbalance in the sound stage, image pulls to one side etc.

To Pete's original question, the most WAF product IMO is the BAD panel by Rpg. Our resident sifu Joamonte has some listed in Carousell. I have never used BAD myself but they are good conceptually.



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Thanks bro, I guess I could install a line of curtains in front of the bookcase, but that bookcase will look quite nice I think with a ladder.. and I don't want to seal a window which brings in light just to level up the room.. I wonder how that will make the room sound if I use bookcases that are half height under the windows :)
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Offline nfnc

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 02:25 »
If you r serious about sound quality, the the SMT S Wings is the real deal here, tried and tested, superb quality. I highly recommend this over QRD or skyline or some made in China or any other diffusers. This one is damn solid. Really really good, I’m getting 4x 120x60 panels and 2x 60x60 to flank the centre. 2 behind MLP and one each behind mains. But the replies are very slow from Matts, SMT Europe




Would you mind sharing the pricing and shipping costs quoted by SMT?   Thanks.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 08:31 »
Would you mind sharing the pricing and shipping costs quoted by SMT?   Thanks.

It’s All in Euro, not cheap really, I had 2 demo units only at my place with 8mx6m room. I’ve played certain demo clips 1001 times, and I can assure you I lm hearing effects from the movie that I’ve not heard before with the S wings. This stuff just worked like magic, my $5k speakers sounds like $30k speakers. The depth and clarity is amazing. No amount of electronic upgrades can give you this. They have card board version too, but I’m going for the wood version. He is very very slow with replies. But here is what I got, std pricing before shipping. Estimate is euro70 per 120x60 panel, b4 gst

V wing  std      1200*600*250mm                                           350euro
S wing  std       1200*600*180                                                350
Wing 95  std    1200*600*95                                                   180
Veneer  + 30 % 
 
diy  10mm reinforced cardboard   ,std brown                                         
V wing  1200*600*250 mm                                                    110 euro
S wing  1200*600*200 mm                                                    100
 

Transparent S wing 1400*650*220mm                                   700 euro
Transparent V wing 1400*650*300                                         700

AD 20 panels 2400*200*50mm                                                 170/m2

AD 40 panels 2400*200*95mm                                                 220/m2

Veneer + 30 %


Bubble module 600*600*180mm

std white   with  helmholtz bass absorbtion                             78 euro

Crystal  595*595*100mm                                                     70 euro

Varitunes bass trapps std folio 
V-4 adjustble 45-100 Hz  1200*430*430mm                           350
V-6  ""            30-65 Hz    1200*600*600mm                         380

Highly recommended! No Horse Run.

Offline nfnc

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2018, 11:11 »
Thanks. That’s helpful. 

Now to find more room in my room ...



Would the above be the transparent S wing mobile that’s priced at Eur 700?

Offline ronildoq

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 13:23 »
Yea that’s the transparent version, you can have them illuminated or install some sort it lighting to make it look like crystal decorative material, but price is $$$$

Am sure it’s WAF friendly, just how much one is willing to spend

As for the sound quality it brings to the set up, this is TOP notch stuff... especially good for first reflection point...


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Offline petetherock

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 13:34 »
If you have a small room, around the size of 4m long by 3.9m wide and 2.9m high, what kind of treatment do you think is needed?
Thanks
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Offline ronildoq

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2018, 21:06 »
Bass is the most difficult aspect among all, i would first identify the room modes, next my placement options, and then MLP options...

Where would your MLP be in that room? Exact dimension...

Also is the room gonna be fully sealed ?

I’ll let u know shortly.... we can use rew to identify the room modes

Once I’ve solved positions, I’ll look at first reflection points.

Eliminate the need for false ceiling. That can cause rattling sound which can be annoying

Bass traps at corners, with at least 2 inch GAP for air flow

Finally a combination of absorption with diffusion


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Offline wechnivag

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2018, 23:01 »
If you have a small room, around the size of 4m long by 3.9m wide and 2.9m high, what kind of treatment do you think is needed?
Thanks
4m and 3.9m... You gonna have some real major peaks in the 35-40hz range, because width and length similar. If MLP is quite close to the back wall, within 1m or less, then the peak gonna be especially pronounced. There will be a major dip right after this peak, due to room height mode, in the range 40-50hz. This will be the biggest headache to tackle. The peak can still be somewhat cut with EQ but dips are hard to fill.

On the contrary, about the ceiling, may I suggest sacrificing some ceiling height and doing a 20cm drop ceiling bass trap. 15cm of rockwool with 5cm air gap. If you can dedicate 30cm even better. Basically your entire ceiling, 4m x 3.9m is one giant bass trap. Personally I'm concerned about the rockwool or fiberglass fibres, so I would actually staple  a layer of 1mm plastic /membrane on the frame in front of the rockwool to fully contain the fibres. If you read Aural-Aid and examine their bass traps, they use something like a plastic sheet as the 'membrane' and this actually slightly increases the bass absorption efficiency. Realtraps use it too, to keep the front reflective at mid high frequency to avoid over absorbing and killing the room sound .

4m x 4m of bass trap in the ceiling is same surface area as 22 units of  regular 60cm x 120cm bass traps. Which costs about $300-500 each for good ones? If you can actually find space in your room to place 22 bass traps.. Putting it all in the ceiling solves a lot of problems. Would still recommend corner bass fronts in all the front and back dihedral wall corners as well. It is really as Ethan Winer from Realtraps says. The more bass traps, the better it sounds. The pitfall is to avoid over absorbing and killing the mids and highs. Membranes and even 3mm Plywood faces on the traps will help prevent that.

Or you could buy 2 or 4 psi AVAA active bass traps.

Anyway, I have about 32 panels of traps in my 2.8w  x 3.8l x 3 h  high dedicated HT/audio room. Most welcome to visit if you want to hear how it sounds.

I have SMT wings in my room too.



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Offline wechnivag

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2018, 23:08 »
Thanks bro, I guess I could install a line of curtains in front of the bookcase, but that bookcase will look quite nice I think with a ladder.. and I don't want to seal a window which brings in light just to level up the room.. I wonder how that will make the room sound if I use bookcases that are half height under the windows :)
Is it possible to have the MLP face the windows? So you have balanced walls on each side wall, and the bookshelves behind you, which is not that bad as they scatter the sound.

Kind of like joamonte's living room, facing the balcony glass windows.

I think symmetry is the most important consideration especially for 2ch audio..

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Offline petetherock

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2018, 23:09 »
Oops - it's 3.9 L by 3.7 by 2.93m
Thanks for your advice... I got to have some room for the Atmos speakers..
I will have to decide if I mount them at the top of the front and back walls or on the ceiling itself... hmmm
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Offline petetherock

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Re: WAF friendly sound absorption material
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2018, 23:10 »
Is it possible to have the MLP face the windows? So you have balanced walls on each side wall, and the bookshelves behind you, which is not that bad as they scatter the sound.

Kind of like joamonte's living room, facing the balcony glass windows.

I think symmetry is the most important consideration especially for 2ch audio..

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Interesting thought.. but I need to put the TV somewhere, and the view out of the window is pretty nice :)
I don't think I will use a projector - it's too small. I am quite happy with my TV. MLP will likely be 2.6-2.5m from the TV and the front wall..
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https://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2018/03/my-setup-32018.html