Author Topic: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED  (Read 3667 times)

Offline badbad2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1099
Would be great to hear all of your opinion and choices.

Optoma UHZ65 - DLP e-shift (4k Faux), limited to REC709, fast on/off, Laser, no horizontal lens shift, 18Gbps HDMI 2.0
JVC DLA-X7900 - only e-shift, wider color gamut, inky black, high contrast, 18Gbps HDMI 2.0
Sony VPL-VW360ES - Native 4K, limited to YCbCr 4:2:0 8 bit on 4k 60hz sources (banding issue), 13Gbps HDMI, color moire sometime
Samsung QLED Q9FN 75" - Inky Black, less refection, wide color gamut, narrow view angle, only 75"
LG OLED C8 65" - Prefect Black, limited brightness, wide color gamut, wide view angle, only 65", burn in
Sony X9000F 85" - Most expensive, limited view angle

For projector screen size will be limited to 92" or 100". If 92" speaker position will be prefect. If 100" speaker position for LR will a bit over 30 degree.

Offline Doggie Howser

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 21604
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 10:25 »
I don’t think the 13Gbps port on the Sony 360ES is limited in that way. By losing the audio part of the HDMI chain, it should do full fat video.
End of Line - Derezzed

Offline desray

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18219
  • Bring the "Cinema experience" back home...
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 13:35 »
Would be great to hear all of your opinion and choices.

Optoma UHZ65 - DLP e-shift (4k Faux), limited to REC709, fast on/off, Laser, no horizontal lens shift, 18Gbps HDMI 2.0
JVC DLA-X7900 - only e-shift, wider color gamut, inky black, high contrast, 18Gbps HDMI 2.0
Sony VPL-VW360ES - Native 4K, limited to YCbCr 4:2:0 8 bit on 4k 60hz sources (banding issue), 13Gbps HDMI, color moire sometime
Samsung QLED Q9FN 75" - Inky Black, less refection, wide color gamut, narrow view angle, only 75"
LG OLED C8 65" - Prefect Black, limited brightness, wide color gamut, wide view angle, only 65", burn in
Sony X9000F 85" - Most expensive, limited view angle

For projector screen size will be limited to 92" or 100". If 92" speaker position will be prefect. If 100" speaker position for LR will a bit over 30 degree.


You are talking about 2 categories here - Projector and TV display.

For Projector, I used to say if possible, go for native 4K resolution for optimum PQ. However, this is no longer true (at least for me)...High Dynamic Range (HDR) as a result of Wide Color GAmut (WCG) will be the thing to go instead of getting native 4K resolution panel. The faux-4K projector in the likes of JVC e-Shift 4 onwards has had achieved outstanding PQ that can easily beat a true 4K projector like Sony any time. This is coming from an owner using a true native 4K projector when it first hit the market and also a JVC DiLA projector users past and present.

For TV category, the current fight is between the QLED (new) and the OLED (old but still gold standards for movie watching) TV at the moment. If you don't want burn-in on your panel over time using OLED screen, then go for QLED but don't be too happy yet as it has been reviewed and tested by some TV reviewers that Samsung's QLED although able to achieve near inky black levels akin to OLED brethrens, the color accuracy and the ETOF for HDR reading all off-the-charts (meaning go haywire) to truly represent what the "actual" colors representation and dynamic range of the PQ ought to be be at any given scene. Unless you nitpick on color and dynamic range accuracy, OLED will be the better option for better movie viewing experience. Just need to be "mindful" of the burn-in over time if you watch a lot of broadcast TV content with a static logo etc...

Speaking of the VW360ES HDMI bandwidth limitation, Doggie is correct in the sense that the HDMI output for the VW360ES is capable of transmitting and receiving 18Gbps bandwidth as long as it is has a HDMI 2.0/a input. The limitation comes in the way the firmware locked it at the max of 4K/60fps at a sub-sampling rate of YCbCr 4:2:0 at 8-bit color bit-depth which ultimately contributes to the banding issues that some users might experience. In short, higher bitrate of 10/12-bit will have no issue passing through VW360ES, the issue lies with the on-board processor's limitation to "degrade" the signal to 8-bit. This in my opinion IS THE WORST! Hence I would definitely recommend to go for the JVC X7900 instead.

Offline desray

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18219
  • Bring the "Cinema experience" back home...
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2018, 13:54 »

Food for thought...what you are giving up if you go the Laser route...

Since we are on the topic of Projector PQ comparison...I have assimilate a fair amount of reviews for a little over a year and I have gathered that laser projector regardless of SONY or JVC's uber expensive true native 4K laser-based projectors...one comment has popped up a few times from some of the more critical projector reviewers and that is - it will be harder (not say impossible in the near future) to get that true inky black levels which JVC DiLA has been so proud of with their range of prosumer grade 4K faux projectors (that still utilize mercury based UHP lamp module for its illumination needs)...It is not the fault of Sony or JVC but rather due to the present video calibration capability of the software that is able to take in the laser light beam...The high intensity in such a light source proved to be issue in achieving what is the "correct" "gamma" or EOTF for HDR content...WCG (BT2020) and Gamma (or EOTF), HDR vs SDR content are all inter-connected variables in the video chain...one part did not do its job well will cause a ripple in the pond effect to the rest which ultimately caused the black levels to be affected. Once that is affected, the contrast in those dynamic scenes will also be affected...one leads to the other...

I'm not saying this is impossible to get it to work but I believed laser based light source introduced a set of problems that "current" video calibrations cannot readily provide a remedy. If TV calibration can be already be so hard...Projector will be even a bigger challenge as projector "amplify" the "flaws" 3 to 5 times more!

Offline badbad2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2018, 21:35 »
You are talking about 2 categories here - Projector and TV display.

For Projector, I used to say if possible, go for native 4K resolution for optimum PQ. However, this is no longer true (at least for me)...High Dynamic Range (HDR) as a result of Wide Color GAmut (WCG) will be the thing to go instead of getting native 4K resolution panel. The faux-4K projector in the likes of JVC e-Shift 4 onwards has had achieved outstanding PQ that can easily beat a true 4K projector like Sony any time. This is coming from an owner using a true native 4K projector when it first hit the market and also a JVC DiLA projector users past and present.

For TV category, the current fight is between the QLED (new) and the OLED (old but still gold standards for movie watching) TV at the moment. If you don't want burn-in on your panel over time using OLED screen, then go for QLED but don't be too happy yet as it has been reviewed and tested by some TV reviewers that Samsung's QLED although able to achieve near inky black levels akin to OLED brethrens, the color accuracy and the ETOF for HDR reading all off-the-charts (meaning go haywire) to truly represent what the "actual" colors representation and dynamic range of the PQ ought to be be at any given scene. Unless you nitpick on color and dynamic range accuracy, OLED will be the better option for better movie viewing experience. Just need to be "mindful" of the burn-in over time if you watch a lot of broadcast TV content with a static logo etc...

Speaking of the VW360ES HDMI bandwidth limitation, Doggie is correct in the sense that the HDMI output for the VW360ES is capable of transmitting and receiving 18Gbps bandwidth as long as it is has a HDMI 2.0/a input. The limitation comes in the way the firmware locked it at the max of 4K/60fps at a sub-sampling rate of YCbCr 4:2:0 at 8-bit color bit-depth which ultimately contributes to the banding issues that some users might experience. In short, higher bitrate of 10/12-bit will have no issue passing through VW360ES, the issue lies with the on-board processor's limitation to "degrade" the signal to 8-bit. This in my opinion IS THE WORST! Hence I would definitely recommend to go for the JVC X7900 instead.

Samsung QLED indeed over bright the HDR for better viewing in day light. But still HDTVtest still gives them highly recommended TV award after firmware 1103.
As for entry level Sony projector, the on-board processor's limitation which downgrade the signal to 8-bit will be a minus but instead look at other e-shift or DLP e-shift projectors are not processing a 4k native signal instead only 1080p or 2k, my guess is the reason more easy for them to process for 4:4:4 in 60hz.

PJ and TV as option just to have the choices within the 7-10k price range except Sony 85" which is slightly exceed.

Offline Amon86

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Snr Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2018, 12:40 »
I had been using VW360ES for a couple of weeks have no issue on colour banding and stuff overall i am happy with it....my projector were using power conditioner as well so image are sharp with details & great with black levels.....would wish to have a 760es though as is quite over my budget...that's even better but need to spent alot exceeding 30k....as mine i total spent more than $18,000+ on installation,motorized screen,Oppo 205 player and HDMI optic fibre 2.0 cables.....

Offline sypderman88

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 254
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 14:31 »
Bro,

 Even VW760es black is not as good as JVC
https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-vw760es-vw885es-review.14808

  But is very sharp due to very high quality lens. Actually for 4K video not much diff compared native with eshift but if you use for 4K gaming using high end PC, difference is very noticeable.

Offline Amon86

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Snr Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2018, 15:06 »
Bro,

 Even VW760es black is not as good as JVC
https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-vw760es-vw885es-review.14808

  But is very sharp due to very high quality lens. Actually for 4K video not much diff compared native with eshift but if you use for 4K gaming using high end PC, difference is very noticeable.

Actually i tried the epson 4k e-shift before....watching planet earth II in 4k but it doesn't look as great as VW260ES in term of sharp and details....That's why i brought a 360ES without demo a unit....I got PC running on 1080GTX but i don't think i will use it for gaming often as it will eat my lamp life very fast....screen does play some apart as well if you were using cheap screen expensive projector it doesn't does any justice to the projector....
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 15:16 by Amon86 »

Offline badbad2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2018, 15:57 »
I had been using VW360ES for a couple of weeks have no issue on colour banding and stuff overall i am happy with it....my projector were using power conditioner as well so image are sharp with details & great with black levels.....would wish to have a 760es though as is quite over my budget...that's even better but need to spent alot exceeding 30k....as mine i total spent more than $18,000+ on installation,motorized screen,Oppo 205 player and HDMI optic fibre 2.0 cables.....

So how come you don't vote VW360ES? :p

Offline badbad2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 15:59 »
Bro,

 Even VW760es black is not as good as JVC
https://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-vw760es-vw885es-review.14808

  But is very sharp due to very high quality lens. Actually for 4K video not much diff compared native with eshift but if you use for 4K gaming using high end PC, difference is very noticeable.

if gaming only with console? xbox one x or ps4 pro? will that be huge different too for 4k native and e-shift?

Offline Amon86

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Snr Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2018, 16:02 »
So how come you don't vote VW360ES? :p

Nah i don't wanna be bias just because i got it....and it doesn't make any difference even if i vote cause is no point....just believe on what you like when you go for demo and see it for yourself as long as you are happy good enough and go with it don't need to debate on this....

Offline sypderman88

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 254
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2018, 17:16 »
Bros,

 For 4k gaming,highend PC with high settings e.g. max texture etc will be noticeable as it can render very high details. It will be more clearly defined on PC  compared to a PS4pro on Sony projector
 For JVC it has the advantage very high contrast and brighter than Sony.
 Sony motion is better.
 For lens quality only the higher end Sony 760es is better.

Offline badbad2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2018, 17:54 »
Nah i don't wanna be bias just because i got it....and it doesn't make any difference even if i vote cause is no point....just believe on what you like when you go for demo and see it for yourself as long as you are happy good enough and go with it don't need to debate on this....

bro, just want to have fun together to hear everyone opinion, even a debate or discussion. if not this forum will be like dead town. more discussion more we can learn. vote is not a big deal but just an agenda here hope for everyone to participate. every vote also count. support a bit la.  :)

Offline badbad2000

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1099
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2018, 17:57 »
Bros,

 For 4k gaming,highend PC with high settings e.g. max texture etc will be noticeable as it can render very high details. It will be more clearly defined on PC  compared to a PS4pro on Sony projector
 For JVC it has the advantage very high contrast and brighter than Sony.
 Sony motion is better.
 For lens quality only the higher end Sony 760es is better.

i tot Sony always uses carl zeiss lens?  gosh.. why only high end model have. 

Offline Amon86

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Snr Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Optoma UHZ65 VS JVC7900 VS SONY VW360ES VS QLED VS OLED
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2018, 18:39 »
bro, just want to have fun together to hear everyone opinion, even a debate or discussion. if not this forum will be like dead town. more discussion more we can learn. vote is not a big deal but just an agenda here hope for everyone to participate. every vote also count. support a bit la.  :)

Well is hard to debate about this as mostly here don't owned the following projectors as i tried to asked here before no one reply so i tried going there to test for myself even if have...the person who owned a JVC7900 would only say theirs the best....most here they will only take out tech spec to compare between them without trying themselves or taken ppl's opinion from other forums like AVS...you can only see it for yourself if you deciding to buy one unit from the following....as i wouldn't say my vw360es was the best....if you have the room space and black curtain in place then go for projectors if you want bigger than 85"....if you didn't have those in place...best bet is still tv cause you spent on that 85" tv the price is much more cheaper than a expensive projector with install and everything in place