Author Topic: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup  (Read 34800 times)

Offline sanhas

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #255 on: June 17, 2019, 19:42 »
After playing with the various settings on the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app as well as the AVR settings for the last 12 hrs or so...I have finally tuned the sound to my liking...and now it is at least on par with my Anthem MRX-720. I will be sharing some of my tips on some of the settings for both the Editor app (it is a must-have imo, sadly, it didn't come as a free package) and the settings on the X8500H itself tmr. Frankly, I am rather pleasantly by the sonic performance of this X8500H when paired with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, except for the *bug* I have mentioned in my earlier posts.


 ;)
May I know where did you get the Audyssey MultEQ Editor and how much is it?

Offline sevenz

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #256 on: June 17, 2019, 22:11 »
After playing with the various settings on the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app as well as the AVR settings for the last 12 hrs or so...I have finally tuned the sound to my liking...and now it is at least on par with my Anthem MRX-720. I will be sharing some of my tips on some of the settings for both the Editor app (it is a must-have imo, sadly, it didn't come as a free package) and the settings on the X8500H itself tmr. Frankly, I am rather pleasantly by the sonic performance of this X8500H when paired with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, except for the *bug* I have mentioned in my earlier posts.


 ;)

Oooh nice.

I havent touched the MultEQ app for a long time due to the bugs that it gave for exceedingly high xover values. Hope they solved this.

Maybe I should revisit this app :)

Offline sevenz

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #257 on: June 17, 2019, 22:12 »
May I know where did you get the Audyssey MultEQ Editor and how much is it?

u can purchase it via your app store depending on which mobile OS u use.

Offline petetherock

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #258 on: June 17, 2019, 22:16 »
May I know where did you get the Audyssey MultEQ Editor and how much is it?

iTunes / Apple App store
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

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Offline sanhas

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #259 on: June 17, 2019, 23:51 »
 Thanks all for the information.

Offline Pismo Mac

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #260 on: June 18, 2019, 08:34 »

Offline badbad2000

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #261 on: June 19, 2019, 00:00 »
After playing with the various settings on the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app as well as the AVR settings for the last 12 hrs or so...I have finally tuned the sound to my liking...and now it is at least on par with my Anthem MRX-720. I will be sharing some of my tips on some of the settings for both the Editor app (it is a must-have imo, sadly, it didn't come as a free package) and the settings on the X8500H itself tmr. Frankly, I am rather pleasantly by the sonic performance of this X8500H when paired with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, except for the *bug* I have mentioned in my earlier posts.


 ;)

Best write like dummies guide, so everyone easy to learn



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline desray

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Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #262 on: June 22, 2019, 11:39 »
Sorry for the late posting as I'm busy with work these days... :-\ :-\ :-\

As I have mentioned, I have no desire to write a review since there are a lot out there in the internet. Simply google it and you will find it. To keep it brief, this is indeed one helluva "beast" that Denon has created in her lab. It harkens back to the  AVR 5803 era where all channels driven in 170w at 8ohms. Of course, the X8500H isn't near the 5803 when it comes to power ratings simply because of the extra channels to amplify - i.e. 13.2 channels as opposed to the 7.2 channels. But that aside, it is still equally impressive by today's standards. Well done Denon!

Audyssey Re-visited!
As you can see, I have abandoned Audyssey MultEQ XT32 for almost a year now. I have been using Anthem MRX 720 which I STILL think that it sounds much better than Audyssey and I stand firm by my decision even till this day after playing with the new X8500H for almost a week. It is refreshing to go back to my Audyssey roots after a year and I see there has been some changes made to the Assistant and the inclusion of the new "Dolby Speaker Setup" feature mostly for the Atmos speaker module (in my case the KEF R50) to take advantage of more precise and improved reading to these type of reflective speakers. Does it do a great job? Well, I can say it does "improve the imaging to a certain extent" compared to my previous model, the X7200WA. Is it worth rushing out to get it if one owned a X7200WA, my answer is definitely NO!

The Audyssey MultEQ Pro Editor App -  A Must-have!
I have to admit that when I decide to go back to Denon X8500H, I am not really too excited about it since there is no novelty (being playing with Audyssey AVR for the past 7 years) and we all know the limitations of Audyssey in some instances - e.g. anaemic bass (lack of a house curve to boost at the 60 - 100Hz region), dialogue not as clear and the dreaded Dynamic EQ (DEQ) which makes the bass sound "bloated" and "muffled". Fortunately D&M released this Audyssey MultEQ Pro Editor app which can help to address some of these problems.

Disable the Midrange Dip immediately!
For instance, I discovered that without the app, all speakers will be calibrated with a midrange dip at 2KHz by default. I discovered that this is actually doing more harm than good in spite of the well intentions on the part of Audyssey engineering team where it supposed to help make the vocal/dialogue much smoother/mellow instead of being to bright/harsh. The default value is set at 2KHz but bear in mind that this is a after all a good estimation at best without really taking into considerations of the capabilities of the speakers you owned and the room EQ etc...this arbitrary value of 2KHz is a joke! Fortunately with this handy app, you can finally get rid of this horrendous "midrange dip" or what Audyssey termed as "Midrange Compensation". Thank goodness, it can be disabled!

Audyssey 101
I have already covered quite extensively in my Audyssey stickies in this segment of the forum. I just want to sound out the importance of speaker and subwoofer placement. Nothing in this Room EQ calibration magic/voodoo can help you if you have poor speaker/subwoofer placement in your listening environment. To ensure Audyssey does what it supposed to do - i.e. room correction to give you the smoothest flat response for all your speakers, you have to ensure speakers and subwoofer(s) are properly placed. With that, you can be assured that minimal Audyssey intervention will be required to make drastic changes to the frequency response which can sometimes do more harm than good.

Getting the Crossover right is the KEY!
One of the most important aspect when it some to post-Audyssey calibration is to set the proper crossover for your speakers. As some may or may not be aware that Audyssey is NOT the "culprit" here when it comes to "guessing" the crossover values for your speakers, instead it is the AVR and often times, the crossover values are wrong, especially with the Center speaker and the Mains (L/R). What you need to do is to determine the allowable range of crossover settings for each of your speaker pair. For instance, my Mains are using the KEF R100 and the frequency response for this pair is 49Hz to 45KHz and a crossover frequency range of 2500Hz. Next you need to know your subwoofer frequency response and in my case, I'm using the JL Audio E112 which gave me a response of 22 Hz to 130Hz. Now that we know the lowest frequency response of my Mains is 49Hz and the highest frequency response of my subwoofer is 130Hz. We have figured out the allowable crossover range for my Mains to be anywhere between 50Hz - 130Hz. But that's not specific enough, to be more precise, you will need to double the lowest frequency response - i.e. 50Hz x 2 = 100Hz to get the ballpark crossover to play with. Now the new set of allowable range for my KEF R100 will be between 100Hz and 130Hz. This takes away a lot of guessing work between 50Hz to 130Hz. As a rue of thumb, if you have a REW and you are able to measure with a certain degree of certainty that your subwoofer(s) is/are able to go flat between 20Hz to 20Khz, then you can opt for a higher crossover - e.g. 110Hz or even 120Hz (even though we are intruding into the territory of a satellite speaker setup). The key is to experiment to get the smoothest crossover frequency between your Mains and the subwoofer(s).

Play some mix of 2 channels bass to mid-bass level music to have a listen. If you have yet to perform the phase control, this is the time to do it (refer to my tutorial in the stickies for more info). What you want is to listen for the bass to blend in seamlessly with the music coming from the Mains. Remember, the whole idea is to make the subwoofer "disappear" into the background with the music playing. If you have 2 subwoofers, perform the phase control on each subwoofer until you get an "even balance" at your MLP.

Making changes to the settings on the Audyssey MultEQ Pro Editor App
There are a few options available for user to play around but there are only 3 settings you need to work on. The first is the Speaker Detection Results. In here, you can change the crossover settings as well as the distance and trim levels (all here in one place).

The second one is the MultEQ Filter Frequency Range. By default it is set at a full spectrum (20Hz to 20KHz). What I did is to set the range according to the speaker's crossover frequency which in my case is 2504Hz for my KEF R100 and my Surround speakers, the Mirage OMNI Flex at 2018Hz so on and forth. Each speaker can have a different frequency treatment which is a great thing since not all speakers are designed the same. Make sense?

Recall that one of the gripe we have about traditional Audyssey calibration is the inability to create a custom house curve, this App allows you to create a custom curve for your subwoofers (combined if you have 2 subwoofers) though not as sophisticated compared to some of the more robust calibration suite like Dirac. At the very least, we can finally do something about this "house curve" to create that chest thumping impact. For that we will need to bump up the frequency between the 40Hz and 120Hz region but YMMV depending on your room size and the kind of subwoofers you owned. Again you need to experiment it. An increase of around 4 - 6db range will be a good starting point. I'm setting mine at +4db @35Hz and a gradual decrease to +2db @100Hz before going flat at 250Hz (letting Audyssey EQ Filter to take its course). I am still experimenting...but so far I'm liking it. :)



After you have made the necessary tweaks and changes on the App, upload it to the AVR via Wi-Fi and then test it out on some of the demo materials ranging from movies to music until you satisfy of the results.

Post-settings on the AVR
After the tweaks on the App itself, you will want to ensure that "Reference" setting on the MultEQ XT32 option has been selected - don't select Flat as it will defeat the purpose since the tweaks made on the App is solely meant for Reference. Selecting "Flat" as the name suggest will flatten everything...meaning there will be no slight roll-off at the higher frequency which is important for movie watching and also the slight bump in the bass region will be gone as well. Also ensure DEQ is enabled and Dynamic Volume (Optional) set to "Light" setting to enhance the surround and dialogue channel when listening at anywhere like -20db below Reference level (at 0db). You will need these features to be enabled since none of us will be listening anywhere near Reference level.

Conclusion
A good listening range for Denon X8500H will be somewhere between -20db (with Dynamic Volume enabled) and -15db (with Dynamic Volume disabled) in order to get that cinematic listening level and feel. So is it as good as I have expected after performing all these steps? Yes, it does, at least to me. At the end of the day, a well placed speaker/subwoofer setup is the superior solution compared to the reliance of Audyssey to do the "dirty work" (Room EQ) for us...this applies to all kinds of Room EQ. If you can, start moving the speakers and especially the subwoofer(s) around to optimum positions before performing any calibration. You will be surprised how Audyssey can still wows you after so many years, I know I did!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 15:17 by desray »

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #263 on: June 22, 2019, 13:37 »
I'm still deciding which one to keep - Anthem MRX-720 with ARC Genesis or the new Denon X8500H. Sound wise, I still prefer Anthem ARC Genesis but not by much (thanks the Audyssey MultEQ Pro Editor App). On the other hand, Denon X8500H has all the neat features and packs a punch in terms of features and discrete 13.2 channels!!!

Decision...Decision...Decision... ::) ::) ::)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 15:01 by desray »

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #264 on: June 22, 2019, 14:03 »
I'm still deciding which one to keep - Anthem MRX-720 with ARC Genesis or the new Denon X8500H. Sound wise, I still prefer Anthem ARC Genesis but Denon has all the neat features and packs a punch in terms of features and discrete 13.2 channels!!! Decision...Decision...Decision...


Sell both and try Dirac. :)

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #265 on: June 22, 2019, 14:49 »
Sell both and try Dirac. :)

Not an option bro...at least not now. :)

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #266 on: June 22, 2019, 15:18 »
**IMPORTANT NOTE WHEN BOOSTING**



Be careful not to boost too much in the region from 80Hz onwards as this is the frequency where bass started to become localized. Too much of it will make the bass too boomy and lost it "tightness"...must be even more careful in the lower mid-range (250Hz 500Hz) as too much boost will muddle the soundstage. You must know the capability of your subwoofer...if your subwoofer is able to maintain a flat frequency curve even w/o any form of calibration, it is not advisable to boost too much as it will affect the rest of the frequency spectrum down the line. Modest boost of 2db to 3db will yield much better results in this case. Remember, to start from somewhere between 40Hz to 120Hz and then experiment which frequency range to boost...Boost must be gradually tapered in order to return back to the "original" EQ curve - i.e. flat through 250Hz.

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #267 on: June 22, 2019, 15:43 »
@Kenshin07 - The other time I was at your new place to audition the X8500H, I recalled your AVR was placed inside the TV cabinet. I think you may want to bring the "beast" out of the cabinet and for better ventilation...This thing really emits a lot of heat especially if you running all channels at high volume.

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #268 on: June 22, 2019, 15:53 »
Yes it does get toasty. I would not put in a confined space even with air conditioning turned on.

Offline petetherock

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #269 on: June 22, 2019, 15:59 »
I'm still deciding which one to keep - Anthem MRX-720 with ARC Genesis or the new Denon X8500H. Sound wise, I still prefer Anthem ARC Genesis but not by much (thanks the Audyssey MultEQ Pro Editor App). On the other hand, Denon X8500H has all the neat features and packs a punch in terms of features and discrete 13.2 channels!!!

Decision...Decision...Decision... ::) ::) ::)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts bro
Now you may know what I've been using the Audyssey based AV amps for the longest time. From a consumer point of view, rather than a pro tweaker, especially the computer goondu types, it represents the simplest yet best sounding option for now.
There are certainly better options out there, but if I may speak for the average Joe, it's fast, simple and relatively effective.
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

My gear:
http://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2019/04/my-setup-42019.html