Author Topic: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup  (Read 32663 times)

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #330 on: July 18, 2019, 14:16 »
This step not work as described at all


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Ok noted. Thanks for the update.



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Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #331 on: July 23, 2019, 14:54 »
5. Under the App, select the frequency range to fit the various speaker crossover frequency range (refer to the speaker spec sheet)

@Desray, what is the rationale of correcting up to speaker crossover frequency and not to Schroeder?

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #332 on: July 23, 2019, 17:55 »
@Desray, what is the rationale of correcting up to speaker crossover frequency and not to Schroeder?

It just sounded better. There is no right or wrong imo.


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Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #333 on: July 23, 2019, 18:02 »
It just sounded better. There is no right or wrong imo.


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Agree. Set to the what sound best to you is the right way to go.

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #334 on: July 23, 2019, 18:11 »
Agree. Set to the what sound best to you is the right way to go.

It’s very speaker dependent imo.



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Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #335 on: July 25, 2019, 11:51 »
Went back to limiting correction to 500hz and 2khz and still find full correction with MRC works better for my room. Back to default Audyssey cal.

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #336 on: July 25, 2019, 12:01 »
Went back to limiting correction to 500hz and 2khz and still find full correction with MRC works better for my room. Back to default Audyssey cal.

I thought you advocate to disable MRC? As for correction...I'm experimenting with full correction for my LCR at the moment and it is indeed better. But for surrounds and Atmos speakers, still limiting to 2KHz...YMMV.

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #337 on: July 25, 2019, 12:05 »
I thought you advocate to disable MRC? As for correction...I'm experimenting with full correction for my LCR at the moment and it is indeed better. But for surrounds and Atmos speakers, still limiting to 2KHz...YMMV.

Yes, have turned off MRC for a while and turning on MRC brings some gain. Specifically, playing louder without going too bright. This may be possibly due to my small room.

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #338 on: July 25, 2019, 12:13 »
Yes, have turned off MRC for a while and turning on MRC brings some gain. Specifically, playing louder without going too bright. This may be possibly due to my small room.

Hmmm...I thought MRC on is the opposite of what you just described...the intentional "BBC dip" is because of the sound playing too bright and harsh around that 2KHz range iirc? I could be wrong on that though...Did you try Flat EQ curve instead of Reference EQ curve since you mentioned that you have a small room? This may help...

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #339 on: July 25, 2019, 12:23 »
Hmmm...I thought MRC on is the opposite of what you just described...the intentional "BBC dip" is because of the sound playing too bright and harsh around that 2KHz range iirc? I could be wrong on that though...Did you try Flat EQ curve instead of Reference EQ curve since you mentioned that you have a small room? This may help...


MRC tames the higher mid range and reduce some of its forwardness in the range of 1.5khz to 3khz.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 12:34 by kaydee6 »

Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #340 on: July 25, 2019, 12:31 »
MRC is tames the higher mid range and reduce some of it forwardness in the range of 1.5khz to 3khz.

Ok. I will experience myself when I visit your place next week. Cheers.


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Offline desray

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Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #341 on: July 25, 2019, 16:23 »
Dialogue Enhancer vs Increasing the Centre Channel trim levels for Dialogue clarity...

An interesting discovery which I think worth sharing. The less known feature called, "Dialogue Enhancer" under the Options is something worth exploring. It can either make or break. For instance, if you want to anchor the dialogue with more clarity, you can play with Dialogue Enhancer. Cycle between Low and Medium for starters to see which one suits you better. With this feature, you can do away the need to increase the Center Channel trim level. HOWEVER, I also discovered that at Medium to High setting, it not only affects the dialogue in general but also have an impact to the overall frequency response on the Center as well as the Mains (L&R). If you already find your speakers to be on the "brighter" side, then this may not be what you are after...instead, increasing the Centre channel trim levels proved to be a more viable option here. I have played with BOTH settings with LPF for LFE set at 100Hz (for greater clarity in the low end for LFE reproduction) and crossover for my LCR set at 80Hz and Dialogue Enhancer set at either Low or Medium setting and simply increasing the Centre channel trim levels by +1db to 2db. I discovered that "for my setup", engaging Dialogue Enhancer to "Medium" can be a tad aggressive for the front sound stage especially when you played concert material which is usually authored at a different level. This can exacerbate the sound on a bright and harsh end...Instead increasing the trim levels seems to more "even" sounding at the front stage. YMMV.

In the past, I have advocated the use of Audyssey's Dynamic Volume to get clearer dialogue and this is no longer the case after playing for the past 2 weeks.

Something for member's to experiment over the weekend...
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 07:31 by desray »

Offline kaydee6

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #342 on: July 26, 2019, 06:48 »
Dialog Enhancer FR posted by SouthernCA in avsforum:


Offline desray

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #343 on: July 26, 2019, 10:09 »
Dialog Enhancer FR posted by SouthernCA in avsforum:



As always...thanks for supplementing the response graphs...now we can see where the drastic change is :P

Offline petetherock

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Re: Denon AVC-X8500H reviews and setup
« Reply #344 on: July 26, 2019, 23:08 »
This post from AVS is very interesting:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-1842.html#post58343390

A few recommendations about crossover points and Audyssey, if I may:
1. Audyssey reads the point where the speaker starts to roll off sharply. This is usually lower than the speaker's -3dB anechoic spec just by virtue of it being in your room. If Audyssey is reading a sharp rolloff higher than that spec'd point, it's because of acoustic issues in the room. The only way to deal with that is by re-positioning, treatments, etc. to fix the issues. Audyssey = garbage in, garbage out.

2. Audyssey's software passes that rolloff data to the AVR to set system crossovers... but different manufacturers use different tolerances and headroom and may set things differently. Not every brand's software follows Audyssey's recommended guideline for this setting.

3. In-ceiling speakers may be rated to 50 or 60Hz, but may not be able to reach that extension once actually in the ceiling. If Audyssey is reading those channels at a much higher recommended crossover, you would usually want to address that with something like a backing box so that it has an enclosure to work with. Depending on your install, you can sometimes fix those issues with something as simple as the proper placement of a little insulation around the speaker. The area above your speakers can reinforce the low end... or cause your ceiling to act a phase-shifted passive radiator that creates a gap in the frequency response. But if Audyssey is detecting 150-250Hz rolloffs for 50Hz in-ceilings, that's a clear sign that you've got a little work to do above your room.

4. LPF of LFE should always stay at 120Hz if your goal is accurate reproduction. This only filters the LFE channel, which tends to be filtered during content creation anyway... but filtering it lower than 120Hz can reduce the level of harmonics that lend sounds in the LFE channel their perceived tone. Whether it will be a noticeable difference varies from person to person and room to room, but as a general rule, you shouldn't cascade the filtering done during content creation with additional filtering of that channel in your gear. The harmonics from the lower frequency sounds won't be significant enough in level to make your subwoofer easier to localize, but they do alter the way you perceive those sounds tonally.

5. Never set a post-Audyssey crossover LOWER than it was detected at. The range between that new crossover point and what Audyssey detected will essentially be unequalized, and worse, if you really do have an acoustic issue that is causing a suckout significant enough to trigger Audyssey's detection of the transition point, you are losing headroom trying to reproduce sound the speaker can't do efficiently in your room.

6. I've found that a good guideline for what you would WANT the crossover points to be is to take the speaker's lower -3dB spec and multiply it times 1.5 then pick the closest crossover point to this number offered in your AVR. This gives you a half-octave so you get a smooth gap-free transition from the point where the sub and speaker are reproducing those frequencies equally down to the in-room extension you get from the speaker. So if your speaker is good down to 40Hz before it rolls off, set it to 60Hz. If your speaker's good down to 25Hz, as tempting as it may be to set it to large, try it at 40Hz instead. Leave the heavy lifting to the subwoofer, where you likely have more amplification, and you will also get cleaner sound from those channels as a result. I see many say to set your crossover to the -3dB spec'd point, but a lot of times that can cause a loss of response during the crossover's transition because you're cascading the in-AVR filter with the speaker's natural rolloff slope.

7. I've also found that if your AVR provides a coarse display of Audyssey's measured in-room response for each channel, you can use this as a general check for what frequency you should be aiming for. So for instance, if I look at Audyssey's coarse graph and see that a speaker I expect to have a -3dB point of 50Hz is changing from below the 0 line to above it, I can tell at what frequency Audyssey is having to boost to bring it into line. And if that transition point is above the spec'd -3dB point, I know I have some in-room work to do to fix frequency issues. If that transition point shows on the graph at lower than the spec'd -3dB point (which is what you would ideally expect given room reinforcement), then I apply the 1.5x rule to the number on the graph where that transition occurs (i.e. where Audyssey goes from cutting frequencies to having to boost them). Again, the goal is to give a smooth transition from speaker to sub so that you aren't relying heavily on boosted equalization below the speaker's in-room capabilities. My half-octave rule tends to work nicely with the filter slopes typically used in system crossovers.

8. Specific to Atmos and whether you're hearing sounds placed well between the bed-level layer and the overheads: For the bed-level channels, you can easily verify cohesion of cross-channel pans using phase tests (i.e. test material that places sound 50% in one channel and 50% in another channel so you can hear if it images between those two channels). All things being equal, if your system distance/delay is properly detected and set, you should get good cross-channel transitions all the way around. HOWEVER, as the man says, a plan is just a list of things to go wrong. So here's what I recommend... After running Audyssey, setting your crossovers, and making sure DynamicEQ is off (because it plays hell with Atmos, as its development did not take into account the presence of overhead channels and how mixers might adjust that to give the intended results at lower volume levels than reference), play Dolby's LEAF demo on a loop. Listen specifically for the pans from bed level to above and across the room. If it seems like those transitions are going too suddenly from bed to overhead rather than making a smooth pan, try adjusting the distance/delay of ALL your overheads in small increments. More times than not, a relatively minor adjustment can snap that low-to-high imaging into place such that it works better across all of your seats. In other words, listen to the clip as-is... then set all of your overheads +0.1 foot and listen again... then repeat a few times... then go back to Audyssey's detected distance and try -0.1 foot increments. You will KNOW when you find the ideal setting... because you will hear that cohesive DOME of sound that we keep talking about here.

9. Another minor tweak for x.x.4 setups: Play the Helicopter demo on a loop and listen for cross-channel transitions between each overhead. If you hear the transition between each channel pair drop out or transition too quickly, try making small adjustments to that single channel to see if you can get a more cohesive pan between them. This is getting REAL nit-picky and may not matter to anyone outside of the MLP... but if you're in the MLP (and why wouldn't you be), you might as well strive for perfection there.
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

My gear:
http://peteswrite.blogspot.com/2019/04/my-setup-42019.html