Author Topic: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread  (Read 151649 times)

Offline petetherock

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #720 on: September 14, 2019, 11:54 »
There has been some chatter that certain discs are actually coded for 7.1.2, so even if one has more speakers, there isn't a lot of spread to the other speakers..
Food for thought and unless one has a really larger room (much larger than the typical HDB / condo flats in SG), you may want to reconsider anything more than 7.1.4 ...
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Offline desray

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ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #721 on: September 17, 2019, 06:36 »
There has been some chatter that certain discs are actually coded for 7.1.2, so even if one has more speakers, there isn't a lot of spread to the other speakers..
Food for thought and unless one has a really larger room (much larger than the typical HDB / condo flats in SG), you may want to reconsider anything more than 7.1.4 ...

+1. Majority of the Blu-ray discs are encoded with 2 pairs of Object based sound mix in mind. But that is not to say that one day it will change. FWIW unless you have a very big room (hard to find in Singapore) or a big hall, anything > 2 pairs of ceiling speakers is not gonna make a dramatic difference in terms of Atmos effects. For those with a big hall, the benefits of a 7.1.6 will be a more seamless “transition” of the overhead sound mix.

Sometimes less is more. It depends very much on the room dimension. While we can all agreed the benefits of dual/multi subwoofers setup to smooth out the response due to its longer wave lengths (resulted in standing waves), overhead sound is “atmospheric” in nature...so if your existing setup already provides adequate overhead sound then there is really no need for you to squeeze in another pair of ceiling speakers.


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Offline ronildoq

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #722 on: September 17, 2019, 08:47 »
+1. Majority of the Blu-ray discs are encoded with 2 pairs of Object based sound mix in mind. But that is not to say that one day it will change. FWIW unless you have a very big room (hard to find in Singapore) or a big hall, anything > 2 pairs of ceiling speakers is not gonna make a dramatic difference in terms of Atmos effects. For those with a big hall, the benefits of a 7.1.6 will be a more seamless “transition” of the overhead sound mix.

Sometimes less is more. It depends very much on the room dimension. While we can all agreed the benefits of dual/multi subwoofers setup to smooth out the response due to its longer wave lengths (resulted in standing waves), overhead sound is “atmospheric” in nature...so if your existing setup already provides adequate overhead sound then there is really no need for you to squeeze in another pair of ceiling speakers.


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+1 well said

But the other thing one has to bear in mind is that 9.1.6 is something Dolby has ready, just haven’t released the codes to public. That is why most processors are gearing up for a 9.1.6 configuration

A lot of it also depends on the sound mix, not every Atmos track sounds the same. Enter game of thrones sound mix Engineers and it’s a different Atmos sound track. Throw in the Disney guys, this missing that missing

Remember, we are now dealing with object based audio, meaning specific objects appears from a specific location, it’s no longer channel based. In my opinion, if u are already mounting ceiling speakers, then 6 is the way to go to spread it up, front pair, centre pair and back pair , done and over with, if possible. this will provide a seamless overhead experience, some even Go with voice of god for auro.

4 is definitely a big step up from 2, with 2 ceiling speakers, the separation between front and back will be missing, what then follows is the lost of direction, because everything now comes from that single pair above you. The feeling of missing the segregation between front and back overheads will be felt

Offline Lam1n1n

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #723 on: September 17, 2019, 09:39 »
With 6 ceiling speakers front, centre and back, you will definitely hear the helicopter and the 747 take off effect better, when properly set-up.

Offline wizardofoz

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #724 on: September 17, 2019, 10:15 »
Interesting thoughts on surround and helicopters


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/96537vnPJs4&fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/96537vnPJs4&fs=1</a>
I have a pile of stuff that pushes out squiggly waveforms from smaller squiggly waveforms that sometimes come from 1's and 0's.
It's wonderful to behold as long as you don't let the magic smoke out.

Life is short! Enjoy the music while it plays, when it stops, there might be a chair for you...or  maybe not.

Offline desray

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #725 on: September 17, 2019, 20:11 »
+1 well said

But the other thing one has to bear in mind is that 9.1.6 is something Dolby has ready, just haven’t released the codes to public. That is why most processors are gearing up for a 9.1.6 configuration

A lot of it also depends on the sound mix, not every Atmos track sounds the same. Enter game of thrones sound mix Engineers and it’s a different Atmos sound track. Throw in the Disney guys, this missing that missing

Remember, we are now dealing with object based audio, meaning specific objects appears from a specific location, it’s no longer channel based. In my opinion, if u are already mounting ceiling speakers, then 6 is the way to go to spread it up, front pair, centre pair and back pair , done and over with, if possible. this will provide a seamless overhead experience, some even Go with voice of god for auro.

4 is definitely a big step up from 2, with 2 ceiling speakers, the separation between front and back will be missing, what then follows is the lost of direction, because everything now comes from that single pair above you. The feeling of missing the segregation between front and back overheads will be felt

Yes...waiting for content. 9.1.6 is not something new...even the demo disc from Dolby allow users to play test tones for 3 pairs of ceiling speakers but studio still not using it. At this point, it is in matrix format...but definitely something to look forward to. And yes, if you already ceiling mount your speakers, go for 3 pairs whenever there is real estate "above" you...but make sure don't follow blindly by shoehorn all 3 pairs of speakers on top just because you can. It needs proper spacing between each speakers to produce the best Object-based effects. This is where I'm trying to drive across the message to everyone. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 20:17 by desray »

Offline petetherock

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #726 on: September 17, 2019, 20:52 »
With 6 ceiling speakers front, centre and back, you will definitely hear the helicopter and the 747 take off effect better, when properly set-up.
Ah bro, here's the point of contention... you don't Need 6 pieces.. the room size matters. Our small rooms may not benefit from so many ceiling speakers. There's interference, and also the loudness issues that confound.
It's known fact now that quite a few mixes are only 7.1.2 for example. So if you add more ceiling speakers, the sound is matrixed into them. There's no transition from Top Front to Middle to Top Rear for example if there's only info for one pair of Top speakers...
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

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Offline petetherock

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #727 on: September 17, 2019, 20:53 »
This may not make everyone happy, but more is not always better ... assess for yourself if it is really what you need rather than what you want ;)
Please post instead of sending a pm, so more can learn.

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Offline Lam1n1n

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #728 on: September 17, 2019, 22:16 »
Ah bro, here's the point of contention... you don't Need 6 pieces.. the room size matters. Our small rooms may not benefit from so many ceiling speakers. There's interference, and also the loudness issues that confound.
It's known fact now that quite a few mixes are only 7.1.2 for example. So if you add more ceiling speakers, the sound is matrixed into them. There's no transition from Top Front to Middle to Top Rear for example if there's only info for one pair of Top speakers...

Room size does matter.  Agreed that inteference can be an issue in smaller room.  Some with low ceiling may choose to have two reflection speakers and two ceiling speakers.  Where you have the room size (and height) go for 6 (with space provision for more, if available) in readiness for better material to come.  AVR is getting more channels for a reason.  Also agreed with Desray that spacing of speakers is important even if you can have 6 ceiling speakers.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #729 on: September 18, 2019, 08:41 »
Yes exactly space is important. I have a common room, spare not in use at the moment. My friends advice me, why not have your theatre room in that room? Bass is easy, acoustics is easier, cost less etc.

Now this is precisely the main reason why I am having my theatre room in the hall. The size ! I love the size, 8x6m hall. It’s very different compared to the common room I have, 3x4m room. If I’m having it in the common room, I’d just go with 4 overheads speakers or maybe 4 overheads and a pair of front height speakers. ( front heights bring something different to the set up compared to overhead in ceiling type)

For me it’s the reverse, the Mrs wants me to have it in the hall, not in the room. She says this” once u have it in your room, then u will be in the room whole day”, this is not healthy. Further we need the spare room once the kids grow up, they will want their own room each.

So yea, that’s how I ended up with hall, and yes, 8 is definitely better in that hall, 8x6m

It’s difficult to tell which is nicer, 2 above u or 6 above u until u try it, as a starting point, 4 is the bare minimum for Atmos regardless of room size

Offline desray

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Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
« Reply #730 on: September 18, 2019, 19:59 »
Yes exactly space is important. I have a common room, spare not in use at the moment. My friends advice me, why not have your theatre room in that room? Bass is easy, acoustics is easier, cost less etc.

Now this is precisely the main reason why I am having my theatre room in the hall. The size ! I love the size, 8x6m hall. It’s very different compared to the common room I have, 3x4m room. If I’m having it in the common room, I’d just go with 4 overheads speakers or maybe 4 overheads and a pair of front height speakers. ( front heights bring something different to the set up compared to overhead in ceiling type)

For me it’s the reverse, the Mrs wants me to have it in the hall, not in the room. She says this” once u have it in your room, then u will be in the room whole day”, this is not healthy. Further we need the spare room once the kids grow up, they will want their own room each.

So yea, that’s how I ended up with hall, and yes, 8 is definitely better in that hall, 8x6m

It’s difficult to tell which is nicer, 2 above u or 6 above u until u try it, as a starting point, 4 is the bare minimum for Atmos regardless of room size

Your wife is wise.



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