Author Topic: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?  (Read 2122 times)

Offline chaccone

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How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« on: February 13, 2018, 21:21 »
My system when it plays opera music, the soprano voices sometimes suddenly soars very high and loud.  But when I turn down the volume, I find the orchestra portion not loud enough.  How ?!?!?! 

Offline micktal

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2018, 09:57 »
i listen to about 80% opera. Can you say which pieces you play from which recording have this issue?

live opera is the same actually. but some recordings esp. early digital recordings from 1980s emphasise the treble part so the problem is not loudness but harshness.

Offline nfnc

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2018, 12:45 »
Agree with micktal.

Such dynamic swings are not uncommon for opera. Turn up the volume loud enough for the soft passages and one can jump when a peak comes along.

Some of the recordings from the earlier era and some labels (for certain recordings) can sound thin and, possibly, harsh.

It could be a frequency balance / matching issue in your system. I once listened to a well regarded DAC in an unfamiliar system.  Usually warm sounding DAC, it made strings on a particular recording sound shrill, which I had never experienced before. Had to fiddle with the phase and high frequency filter settings before I could tolerate the sound. On another DAC in the same system, this was not an issue. If you have EQ/room correction in your system, you might want to try this.

Another possibility might be dynamic compression or even clipping due to lack of headroom in your system = overload. 

I once had an amp with a power output meter. On jazz / pop, the output level was generally between 5 - 10 watts.

However, for classical, when turning up the volume to achieve the jump/involvement factor at a similar perceived loudness, the output was about >50 watts at peaks which were subjectively not very loud (the other passages were plenty loud at about 5 - 10 watts).

Reminds me of the article I read once about Birgit Nilsson being asked to tone down during recording sessions. Anytime she sang at her normal volume at the typical distance from the microphone, either the microphone or the recording console would overload. So, apparently, she had to step back for her high notes.

ghemml

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2018, 12:54 »
Why not play around with cables, using more laid back type speaker cables?

Offline Instek_88

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 14:41 »
Why not play around with cables, using more laid back type speaker cables?

Not sure what the real problem/problems that TS is actually facing as there are quite a number of possibilities. The only person who can figure out is himself through very extensive trial and error. The person who has to understand the system the most must be the owner of the system.

But using cables to hide the problem will only cause more problems in the future. Unfortunately, the conventional solution of hiding problem is often the shortcut towards the dead end that limits the system performance. Hiding problems should be used only as the very last heavily compromised "solution". The better way is to figure out the real reason/reasons and tackle the problem head on.

Offline Hass

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2018, 14:58 »
maybe can try drowngrading to a boombox or bose

Offline andylovesaudio

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 15:12 »
I heard before. I always thought this phenomenon in audio is known as having a "shouty" or "peaky" sound quality. I had it on this particular part of a certain recording of female vocals. I changed IC and 95 percent gone. But then I got new speaker cables...now kena again in other recordings.  ;D. Now I don't play those songs that sound shouty.  ;D

Offline malsound

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 17:04 »
Strain amp equal shouty sound but if it is Maria Callas, just deal with it,  her voice can melt microphone,  make stylus jump tracks and get tape head to catch fire.  ;D


Offline AndrewC

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2018, 17:28 »
maybe can try drowngrading to a boombox or bose

My thoughts exactly ;D

Audiophiles spend thousands of dollars to get better dynamics in their system… but seems the thread starter wants the opposite. Here's another recommendation for the thread starter: Add an Audio Compressor in your system ;D

Go buy from Amazon; https://www.amazon.com/FMR-RNC-1773-Compressor-Unit/dp/B0006I935Y/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1518600347&sr=8-9&keywords=audio+compressor

You'll never get to heaven with a smile on your face from me.

Offline chaccone

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 22:12 »
Strained amp ?  hmm.. my amp is only 1.5 watts, maybe that's the cause..  I'll try to change my cables too and see how. 

I was listening to some Handel Operas like Alessandro and Floridante, mostly recent recordings. hmm I should have tried operas from other composers to see if there is the same issue.

Thanks for all the suggestions.   

Strain amp equal shouty sound but if it is Maria Callas, just deal with it,  her voice can melt microphone,  make stylus jump tracks and get tape head to catch fire.  ;D



Offline micktal

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 23:24 »
if you are referring to the Alan Curtis Floridante and the Max Cencic Alessandro. I have both and i don't remembering I hear this problem. also Baroque opera is not very dynamic, compared to Puccini /Wagner etc.

my audition for dynamics is the 1st two tracks from Karajan/Boheme on Decca.

Offline nfnc

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How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 03:30 »
Strained amp ?  hmm.. my amp is only 1.5 watts, maybe that's the cause..  I'll try to change my cables too and see how. 
...

Bingo...therein lies the problem and solution.

Depending on the room size, listening level and speaker efficiency (hopefully, >100dB), you are probably hearing your amp clipping (or way past it), hence the distortion and harshness.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/forum/the-science-of-audio/amplifier-matching-mismatching-and-clipping-a-curse/1975-amplifier-clipping-an-epidemic

If this is the problem, experimenting with cables won't help. You also risk damaging your speaker drivers.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 03:34 by nfnc »

Offline Instek_88

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 09:47 »
Bingo...therein lies the problem and solution.

Depending on the room size, listening level and speaker efficiency (hopefully, >100dB), you are probably hearing your amp clipping (or way past it), hence the distortion and harshness.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/forum/the-science-of-audio/amplifier-matching-mismatching-and-clipping-a-curse/1975-amplifier-clipping-an-epidemic

If this is the problem, experimenting with cables won't help. You also risk damaging your speaker drivers.

That's not the only possibility.

Two points:

(a) Why did TS made the first post? His complain maybe due to several reasons and each reason maybe due to several causes.

(b) With point (1) in mind, here are some causes. TS should first try causes that do not cost a single cents before proceeding to buy things:

(1) Room acoustics. The room conditions which includes things that people don't normally consider. Dealing with room acoustics can be free as well.

(2) Cable dressing. How the cables are arranged.

(3) Quality of equipment.

(4) Speaker placement.

(5) Speaker setup. This is not about how the speaker is arranged in the room. This include how the speaker is set on the floor, how the drivers are mounted on the cabinet, how the speaker cables are installed, how the cabinet is installed, how the speaker binding post link is installed, etc, etc, and etc ...

(6) Arrangement of power plugs. How the power plugs are arranged in a power distributor/power socket.

(7) Nature of accessories. This include footers, isolation platforms, racks, weird tweaks or various sorts, power conditioners, power distributors, fuses, etc, etc, and etc ...

(8) Power structure. How in-wall power lines are laid, what is being used, how they are being terminated, etc, etc, and etc

(9) Chassis of equipment. How the chassis of the equipment are installed.

(10) Mounting of PCB. How the PCB of the equipment are mounted.

I just give 10 possibilities and this is just a small fraction of the possibilities. Each of the possibilities had its own possibilities as well.

Note that the problem maybe not due to one factors but maybe multiple factors. The more factors are involved, the more difficult it is to detect the problem. This is because one problems or multiple problems may masked the detection of the problem that we are testing. Sometimes not hearing any differences in sound is not an indication of no differences but rather a big indication of something extremely important.

Offline jerome_the_lang

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 12:32 »
Where got amp only 1.5 watts wan...??!?

 ;D
KNN laah, why cunt the moderating askholes allow all the fcuks, sh1t, and chiibyes to be spelt as they are meant to be spelt...?

Offline BadEnglish

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Re: How to deal with overly dynamic soprano voices ?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 13:11 »
Where got amp only 1.5 watts wan...??!?

 ;D


Tube signle ended.
I believe his speakers are very sensitive e.g. 100db type.
According to ohm's law 1.5w is equal to 3v in 8 ohm speakers, so more than enough
Trying very hard to reproduce the sound that mixing engineers heard in the studios at home with limited knowledge and resources.