Author Topic: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector  (Read 15371 times)

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #105 on: December 17, 2018, 09:20 »
I have to say the Benq LK990 prototype I tested with 6000 lumens was surprisingly good with HDR. Black levels in a pure dark room on a 150” display was not an issue. But the pop and punch of HDR was stunning.
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Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #106 on: December 17, 2018, 13:01 »
I have to say the Benq LK990 prototype I tested with 6000 lumens was surprisingly good with HDR. Black levels in a pure dark room on a 150” display was not an issue. But the pop and punch of HDR was stunning.

While brightness (lumens) is important - more important is how the display (Projector or TV) can do proper tone-mapping to take advantage of HDR and its numerous variants. It can be overly bright and strained the eyes if everything is "way too bright" in a dark room. IMHO, if done right, there is really no need to go beyond 1,000 nits if shadow details could be easily discerned along with BT2020 achieving somewhere in the ballpark of 75% of DCI-P3 minimally.

Offline Doggie Howser

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Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #107 on: December 17, 2018, 13:04 »
While brightness (lumens) is important - more important is how the display (Projector or TV) can do proper tone-mapping to take advantage of HDR and its numerous variants. It can be overly bright and strained the eyes if everything is "way too bright" in a dark room. IMHO, if done right, there is really no need to go beyond 1,000 nits if shadow details could be easily discerned along with BT2020 achieving somewhere in the ballpark of 75% of DCI-P3 minimally.

I don’t think 6000 lumens is even enough to do 2000 nits.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 13:07 by Doggie Howser »
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Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #108 on: December 17, 2018, 13:11 »
I don’t think 6000 lumens is even enough to do 1000 nits.

Not sure whether it could at this point since I don't have one for my review and also the lack of proper equipment to test...but to me, Projector just ain't gonna do crazy brightness for HDR content at this point since most will employ the use of some kind of Cinema filter to achieve near 100% DCI-P3 color gamut and this is unfortunate due to brightness level reduced to near 50% in some drastic case. This is the achilles heel for most if not ALL existing 4K projectors in the market right now. But that is not what I'm trying to do with Projector at this point, with the help of tone-mapping, hopefully the Projector itself can "moderate" "intelligently on the fly for "certain scenes" in a HDR 4K scenes...NOT every scene requires more than 1,000 nits but it is good to know that IF a Projector can hit that range when the occasion calls for it.

Offline c722

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #109 on: December 17, 2018, 21:30 »
Since PJ brightness is no where near the level HDR needs, does any one use oppo's HDR->SDR conversion to mitigate this ?  Does it look better than without this conversion for PJs who "claim" HDR but is really too dark ?  e.g. this Sony ? (or other "4K HDR" models like the 260/360/550 etc)

Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #110 on: December 17, 2018, 22:44 »
Since PJ brightness is no where near the level HDR needs, does any one use oppo's HDR->SDR conversion to mitigate this ?  Does it look better than without this conversion for PJs who "claim" HDR but is really too dark ?  e.g. this Sony ? (or other "4K HDR" models like the 260/360/550 etc)

Of course you can if you strip the HDR meta in order to get the SDR (Rec 709). The brightness will be restored but that is not what we want. We want to enjoy wider color gamut like DCI-P3/BT2020 but for that to work, HDR will have to be invoked.

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #111 on: December 18, 2018, 08:41 »
Since PJ brightness is no where near the level HDR needs, does any one use oppo's HDR->SDR conversion to mitigate this ?  Does it look better than without this conversion for PJs who "claim" HDR but is really too dark ?  e.g. this Sony ? (or other "4K HDR" models like the 260/360/550 etc)

Panasonic UB820 And Oppo 20x both allow HDR/2020 to SDR/2020 conversion so theoretically BT2020 color space is retained.

However I’m guessing that in most projectors, it’s not handling BT2020 correctly when receiving SDR. It takes BT2020 but converts it internally to Rec709. When I use the Oppo or Panasonic to do SDR/2020 conversion, my Marantz volume bar overlay looks (dark yellow) same as it does on Rec709. When I leave it I. HDR mode, the color is more intense Orange.

That said, Panasonic has an HDR optimizer mode that works in HDR mode and it keeps the HDR signal and it retains a lot of that pop. Dark scenes like Black Panther now retain the pop and shadow details on the projector in this mode without the deleterious effect of SDR/2020 conversion.
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Offline c722

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2018, 21:36 »
yes I meant HDR->SDR+BT2020.  SDR+BT2020 is not a standard, but Oppo does it, and my question is really: is the Sony projector being fed a SDR+BT2020 looks better than being fed original HDR?  Especially since Oppo can let you specify the max nits your PJ can do, theoretically it should work.  I read many PJs handle SDR+BT2020 poorly with all sorts of wield results (like clipping it at Rec709 levels).  I wonder any members here can comment if your Sony (and JVC) can handle it properly.

DH: did you try feeding oppo directly to the PJ (while doing the HDR->SDR+BT2020) ?  Could it be the marantz avr that is confused by the input and is messing it up ?  Panasonic "HDR optimizer" sounds cool, seems to be doing the right thing.  Oppo guys should be able to do it too... (I hope)

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #113 on: December 18, 2018, 23:01 »
Never tried direct connecting the Oppo to the Sony (or the JVC X9500 or BenQ LK990 when I had them)

AFAIK the LK990 didn't handle SDR/BT2020 correctly either (if the Marantz AVR volume bar was a correct indication). I vaguely recall the JVC did the same thing
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Offline desray

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #114 on: December 18, 2018, 23:19 »
I sold off my Oppo long time ago and I also did not try out the SDR/BT2020 option "extensively" as I don't see the point at that time to do it since I am so eager to switch to HDR whenever there is an opportunity. Nevertheless I did try one time and I must the PQ did not "look right" at that time...though I can't really recall "what didn't seem right" as I didn't do any form of meaningful comparison or measurement.

I think the problem lies with the "conversion" process which only make the overall PQ brighter since the HDR meta data was stripped but what anomalies it introduced during the conversion process? Well, nobody knows. Suffice to say, it did not make me wanna ever switch back to the SDR/BT2020 option even though Oppo has it.

Offline c722

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #115 on: December 19, 2018, 21:43 »
DH: you use Panasonic's HDR Optimiser on the 760ES ?  what's the target nits you select ?  1000 nits ?

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: Sony VPL-VW760ES / Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K SXRD Projector
« Reply #116 on: December 20, 2018, 05:49 »
As far as I can recall, Panasonic 820 doesn’t do 1000 nits or an actual number. For SDR conversion, you have high luminance tv, mid luminance tv and low luminance/projector.

I think there is one setting for OLED too.

HDR optimizer (in HDR mode) there is a slider, I set it to +3
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