Author Topic: REW - Help needed !!!  (Read 12769 times)

Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 18:44 »
will do that bro jag

the avr is set to LFE only...anything else i can check?

Bro Jag,
currently the subwoofer knob is set to LFE, am i correct to adjust the cross over with the knob? and not in the Denon settings?

Offline wechnivag

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 20:38 »


Not impactful bass (especially in music) it is tight but not enough if you know what i mean :-)
high frequencies tend to sound a bit harsh (i think the curtain helped with them since i have glass window facing the speakers....

Soundstage does not sound big... usually a bit small, need to crank up the volume a fair bit to make it sound enough

Bass is tight enough, but not deep enough (extension) or not impactful enough (output)? Are you referring to music or movies - gunshots, punches and thumps?

Harsh HF, is this at higher volume? Or regular volume? What number on AVR, (-15 or - 10db)?

Soundstage, How is the mains positioning? Do they have room from front wall or side wall? Experiment with toe in angle? If you have some existing foam acoustic treatments, excessive foam absorption can also be a contribution.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk


Offline m0j0_vin

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 22:58 »
Try to measure your LCR without the bass crossing to the sub first so you can see their individual FR. From there you can see what's the best crossover setting. Your sub has a dip in the 44-46hz region. Check if your mains can handle this frequency without showing the same dip and adjust your crossover accordingly.

Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2017, 17:32 »

Bass is tight enough, but not deep enough (extension) or not impactful enough (output)? Are you referring to music or movies - gunshots, punches and thumps?

Harsh HF, is this at higher volume? Or regular volume? What number on AVR, (-15 or - 10db)?

Soundstage, How is the mains positioning? Do they have room from front wall or side wall? Experiment with toe in angle? If you have some existing foam acoustic treatments, excessive foam absorption can also be a contribution.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk


Bass is tight but not impacting enough hence need to run entire system loud (60db) to get the same impact.

Harsh HF is usually around higher volume since I run my system at 50 (normal listening) and 60-70(movies/music)

Mains are toed in a little, behind got the room 9inch+ and sides has the clearance as well, no room treatments done so far...

Offline wechnivag

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2017, 20:11 »


Bass is tight but not impacting enough hence need to run entire system loud (60db) to get the same impact.

Harsh HF is usually around higher volume since I run my system at 50 (normal listening) and 60-70(movies/music)

Mains are toed in a little, behind got the room 9inch+ and sides has the clearance as well, no room treatments done so far...

Bass impact - Do you have dynamic EQ enabled on the AVR? It provides a volume dependent bass boost, and provides a full and balanced sounding bass at lower listening levels. Some HT kaki do not like dynamic EQ as it may limit bass output at higher volumes, but for regular listening levels, 50-60db, it is definitely effective.

Regarding harsh treble, is it during intense movie scenes like explosions or other crash boom bang? This could either be the tweeter distorting, ie reaching its limits, or amp running out of power. However your speakers are rather capable, and you have a nice external power amp so I'm not sure what is going on without hearing it in person. Having said that, hifi speakers are designed to play music, not sounds of explosions and gunshots, so it could well be tweeter distortion, based on my previous experience demoing HT on hifi speakers.

Perhaps you can try Audyssey Movie which has less treble energy than audyssey Music (Reference vs Flat I think for denon). Or also turn down the treble slightly with  the tone controls.

Hope this helps.

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Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2017, 23:49 »
Hi Bro's, I went ahead and rerun audessy agian to baseline the system properly (Audessy rerun + Dyn EQ on + Sub phase aligned + LPF @ 160 on sub)
Seems xover @ 100 works best (bro's can confirm based on the RE graph between 90 and 100 xover below)


Below is the overall (LCF and Sub) graph without dynamic EQ


Win Dynamic EQ engaged


With this done, what can i do next? reading Bro Jag's article .. one of the line says i can increase the sub level by 3DB to get more punch... will try that.
Anyother suggestions?

Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2017, 01:07 »
Try to measure your LCR without the bass crossing to the sub first so you can see their individual FR. From there you can see what's the best crossover setting. Your sub has a dip in the 44-46hz region. Check if your mains can handle this frequency without showing the same dip and adjust your crossover accordingly.
Bro, this is the measurement for LCR no sub...what do you suggest should be the cross over?

« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 01:25 by pda_lover »

Offline Jag

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2017, 13:09 »
Your speakers LCR can do bass down to 10Hz? If true, maybe don't need a subwoyou fee anymore.

Can you remeasure LCR, but this time, physically switch off the subwoofer.
Electronics : Denon 7200, MiniDSP Dirac 88A, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen2
ATMOS Audio : Martin Logan Ethos (L&R), ML Motif X(C), ML Motion 4 (14pcs surround spkrs)
LFE : Dual Rythmik FV25HP & Crowson Motion Actuator
Video : Sony VPL-HW55ES, Stewart Screen Studiotek 1.3
Source : HTPC
Fully automated HT via Alexa, Z-wave and Logitech Harmony Remote Control

Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2017, 13:20 »
Your speakers LCR can do bass down to 10Hz? If true, maybe don't need a subwoyou fee anymore.

Can you remeasure LCR, but this time, physically switch off the subwoofer.
I will measure this one and report back later today...

Something seem to be wrong somewhere since the readings doesn't make sense...do you think there is worth resetting the AVR and measure again?

Offline m0j0_vin

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2017, 13:29 »
Set your LCR to Large or Full Range in the AVR before you measure.

Offline ronildoq

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2017, 13:31 »
I will measure this one and report back later today...

Something seem to be wrong somewhere since the readings doesn't make sense...do you think there is worth resetting the AVR and measure again?

Hi bro,

Do this. make sure the power to the main speakers are turned on. Choose channel 3 (centre speaker). Switch off the main power for all subwoofers. Then run the sweep.... That means you are measuring the Centre Channel only without any bass from subwoofer.

Then measure the Subs only.

Look at the roll off on Subs and roll off on Centre. The midsection where it rolls off is where you should set the cross over for that channel, in this case the centre channel

Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2017, 23:29 »
Your speakers LCR can do bass down to 10Hz? If true, maybe don't need a subwoyou fee anymore.

Can you remeasure LCR, but this time, physically switch off the subwoofer.

Bro, i did the measurement and here are the results.

1- LCR with SUB switched off

2. LCR with SUB disabled in settings

3. New sub position, Audy recalibrated, Cross over 60hz, phase adjusted based on guide, 3DB gain for sub

Please suggest what should i do next

Offline Jag

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2017, 00:13 »
Much better!

Now we can see ff the roll-off for the main LCRs and the sub's roll-off.

From a glance, I would boost the sub up by at least 5dB or more.
Electronics : Denon 7200, MiniDSP Dirac 88A, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen2
ATMOS Audio : Martin Logan Ethos (L&R), ML Motif X(C), ML Motion 4 (14pcs surround spkrs)
LFE : Dual Rythmik FV25HP & Crowson Motion Actuator
Video : Sony VPL-HW55ES, Stewart Screen Studiotek 1.3
Source : HTPC
Fully automated HT via Alexa, Z-wave and Logitech Harmony Remote Control

Offline pda_lover

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2017, 08:31 »
Much better!

Now we can see ff the roll-off for the main LCRs and the sub's roll-off.

From a glance, I would boost the sub up by at least 5dB or more.
Bro Jag, are you referring to graph 3?
I had to use "dialog enhancer" on medium setting to hear much of the dialogues, should I just boost center channel by 2-3 DB (or whatever make sense)?
In graph 3, I am using 60 hz cross over, does that seem correct?
Anything else can I look to improve e.g. by doing any room treatments etc?

Offline sevenz

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Re: REW - Help needed !!!
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2017, 08:32 »
Bro, i did the measurement and here are the results.
3. New sub position, Audy recalibrated, Cross over 60hz, phase adjusted based on guide, 3DB gain for sub

Please suggest what should i do next

Bro, can you indicate what each of your line means?

your non red lines currently look like with sub combined with speaker.