Author Topic: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread  (Read 46972 times)

Offline dXter

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2017, 17:33 »
Wish I can afford. ;D
Hope for 2nd hand ones. ;D

Offline domho8

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2017, 17:40 »
I ask av1 "chord Dave on sale liao and v hot" reply "no lei where u heard fr ah"

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Offline DJQ

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2017, 17:42 »
Wish I can afford. ;D
Hope for 2nd hand ones. ;D
2nd hand 1/2 price?  ;D ;D ;D
ProJect Q.

Offline eze73

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2017, 21:26 »
Hello
Thanks for the nice review of the Chord Dave
Highly professionnal review , and I totally agree with your findings
Regarding Intona , may be with the USB REGEN or W2S recovery it would be different , who knows
Thanks again for sharing
Cheers

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2017, 15:12 »
Hello
Thanks for the nice review of the Chord Dave
Highly professionnal review , and I totally agree with your findings
Regarding Intona , may be with the USB REGEN or W2S recovery it would be different , who knows
Thanks again for sharing
Cheers

You're welcome  :)

On the issue of USB devices, in fact, since testing DAVE, I’ve had time to think about and further test this very point. IMHO, other such USB re-clockers/isolators like Uptone etc., are not going to make any difference.

Here’s why;

These devices do not change the actual USB bitstream; 1s remain as 1s and 0s remain as 0s. This can be proven objectively beyond any doubt thanks to MQA and it’s bitstream Authentication! All you need to do is test with/without any such USB device plugged in between Tidal/Audirvana+ and any MQA DAC like the Meridian Explorer2 DAC or AudioQuest Dragonfly. Play any MQA Authenticated track - if the Blue (or Green) “MQA Authenticated” light comes on, it’s bit perfect, no bits have been changed by these devices! Same thing goes for Ethernet cables or isolator devices, one can verify that the bitstream is being  delivered error-free using Roon and it’s RAAT protocol which imbeds checksums to verify bit perfect connectivity between the Computer and the DAC with or without these devices. So, we can objectively prove, for a fact, that these devices/cables don’t change bits! :)

These solutions also claim to provide re-clocking of the bitstream to ensure precise timing. However, once again this is quite unnecessary especially in the case of Asynchronous USB or Ethernet streams because these are packetised bitstreams that are asynchronous in nature, meaning they don’t rely on synchronous clocking signals to interpret bit states the way that say the S/PDIF signals on Transport and DAC requires a precise 44.1k/48k clock. Additionally, if the bits are being misinterpreted due to clocking/timing errors, the MQA decoder or Roon/RAAT will fail! So once again we can objectively validate that re-clocking is not required!

https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/products/dacs/usb-dacs/explorer/
Quote
1x LED glows white for PCM, green to indicate MQA playback and blue to indicate MQA Studio playback. MQA indications will not show if the bitstream is altered in any way

Here’s an MQA Mastered track from 2L, “Mozart: Violin concerto in D major - Allegro (Marianne Thorsen / Trondheim Solistene)”. The Blue light on the Explorer2 signifies “MQA Studio Authenticated” perfectly unaltered bitstream between my Mac and the Meridian Explorer2.

 


However, these USB re-clockers/isolator devices do provide electrical clean-ups; lifting the bitstream signal’s current and voltage levels to full spec, and even more importantly, providing isolation of the USB power & ground between the source platform and DAC; which is the most important part as USB sources (e.g. Computers) are quite electrically “noisy” which could affect the sonic output of a DAC (showing up as distortion). Ethernet by default is a galvanically isolated interface, so ground noise impact is eliminated without adding anything. Which leaves just USB where electrical isolation becomes important.

If you read ComputerAudiophile reviews of these USB devices, some showcase cleaned-up bitstream (oscilloscope digital bitstream eye-patterns); problem is, they are quite irrelevant really because;
(1) whats more important is the bitstream interpretation by the DAC itself, and as explained above, MQA or RAAT can prove  bit perfect delivery with or without these devices! and
(2) the electrical noise flowing from the source to the DAC, and for that, galvanic isolation tackles the issue. With DAVE’s galvanically isolated USB port, this issue is measurably addressed, hence the zero measured difference with and without Intona, and unlikely to make a difference with others!

Here’s the bottom line — I’m not saying these devices don’t work, I’m saying these USB re-clockers/isolators only really work well in setups where the source/DAC power & grounding is inherently deficient to begin with. So, if someone experiences a “Wow!!!” difference, you know their setup is “less than ideal” in the first place and requires this kind of “fix”. For components like DAVE, where these issues are addressed in their design, these re-clockers/Isolators devices don’t bring any benefits ;)
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Offline stvc

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2017, 15:56 »
Interesting, in CA there is group modified their computer, network switches and streamer with better clock to improve the SQ, especially for Romaz which have Dave for this setup. Lucky I'm not with SOTM product  ;D

Offline durianlover88

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2017, 19:26 »
I have tested Dave and lately Blu2 in my setup for coming to 2 months.....the ethernet isolation and Dave USB galvanic isolation though good, still not up to mark. '1 is 1, 0 is 0' there are more to it.
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Offline stvc

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2017, 19:42 »
Wah... how the blu? So it work better with the uptime reclocker?

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2017, 22:21 »
Interesting, in CA there is group modified their computer, network switches and streamer with better clock to improve the SQ, especially for Romaz which have Dave for this setup. Lucky I'm not with SOTM product  ;D

You know what they say... ;)

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Offline stvc

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2017, 22:35 »
Haha, that why must try   ::)

Offline nfnc

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2017, 22:46 »
I have tested Dave and lately Blu2 in my setup for coming to 2 months.....the ethernet isolation and Dave USB galvanic isolation though good, still not up to mark. '1 is 1, 0 is 0' there are more to it.

Interesting.  Was not aware that you had moved on to DAVE/Blu 2.  More to your taste than the PS?

Rob Watts claims that the USB input is galvanically isolated but mentioned that its not 100% (somewhere in the head fi thread). Hence, USB isolation is not required. Yet, on his battery powered laptop source, the AQ Jitterbug (or two) has a positive effect.


Offline durianlover88

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2017, 23:40 »
I think you get the gist of it....

Anyway, felt pain when I sold the Directstream DAC today....I thought I could at least hear the Huron firmware upgrade...

Not bought any DAC yet...the loaner was returned....still waiting see any voices or call to lead me to next one. I know I have to do something different to have another radical level up, but this time more prudent to make sure I sell first before I buy (house stacking up till no space)....and thinking very carefully this time the next step...
For sale(neg):
Geek Out SIGNATURE Edition: S$999
Crystal Dreamlink 1m/Siltech Zero Ohm Diamond 1.5m: S$1888/S$2288
Acoustic Revive REM-8/RGC-24: S$388
Stillpoint Mini Ultra(3): S$388

Offline AndrewC

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2017, 23:40 »

Interesting.  Was not aware that you had moved on to DAVE/Blu 2.  More to your taste than the PS?

Rob Watts claims that the USB input is galvanically isolated but mentioned that its not 100% (somewhere in the head fi thread). Hence, USB isolation is not required. Yet, on his battery powered laptop source, the AQ Jitterbug (or two) has a positive effect.

IIRC you’re referring to the post where Rob talks about the 2pf coupling capacitance on DAVE’s USB galvanic isolation, which has an impact when noise in the GHz range from AC powered Laptop stray into the USB port. i.e. deficiency in the setup, addressed via better source components like the Melco ;)
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Offline nfnc

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2017, 02:26 »
IIRC you’re referring to the post where Rob talks about the 2pf coupling capacitance on DAVE’s USB galvanic isolation, which has an impact when noise in the GHz range from AC powered Laptop stray into the USB port. i.e. deficiency in the setup, addressed via better source components like the Melco ;)

Yes, that's it. Remember reading it a while back.

romaz's adventures on CA are interesting but puzzling. The USB input on the DAVE is asynchronous. I can understand that better isolation, removal of noise, etc can help but better clocks prior to the USB input takes some understanding.

Then again, I don't believe he is using the Melco (which reportedly employs an NDK femto clock).  He is using a PC with bridged LAN ports - hmmm, sounds familiar but have no idea if the Melco uses bridged LAN ports - which he apparently has customised to employ the SOtM ultra clock.

On a side note, have you tried the Melco Series 2 with the dedicated USB output, and does it make a difference with the DAVE?

Offline nfnc

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Re: Chord (DAVE, Blu2, Hugo2, Mojo, Poly) - Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2017, 02:30 »
I think you get the gist of it....

Anyway, felt pain when I sold the Directstream DAC today....I thought I could at least hear the Huron firmware upgrade...

Not bought any DAC yet...the loaner was returned....still waiting see any voices or call to lead me to next one. I know I have to do something different to have another radical level up, but this time more prudent to make sure I sell first before I buy (house stacking up till no space)....and thinking very carefully this time the next step...

Oh... was wondering why the Aurender was put on the market.  Difficult to decide what to buy. More difficult to let go.

Didn't know that AV One did home loans.

Good luck with your search but afaik you tried a number of good ones before deciding on the PS.