Author Topic: Tactile Transducers  (Read 28420 times)

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2932
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #150 on: February 11, 2020, 20:47 »
mv -3, omg, I felt too strong with MV -15 for 90% of the movie already,

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

No no, the -3 is BEQ settings for volume. Normally with BEQ, they will let u input the filters. After which, they advise what volumes to play.

If u recall, some movies are mixed louder than others. So u need to adjust the volumes. With BEQ, they scan through the entire sound track. So if u normally listen at MV -20, u need to listen at mv -23 for this movie.

That’s what it means.

Offline ngsk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 269
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #151 on: February 11, 2020, 20:56 »
Wow, crowsons really 💪🏻 6mm xmax! Crazy, perfect for single digit ulf content

No wonder u r enjoying it so much with your rythmik f18 down to 10hz then crowsons take over below 10hz

I think yours is one of the very few set ups that is able to handle those ulf

No wonder u keep saying syok ! Lol

Haha actually read another post by the BEQ filter creator n decided to follow his advice that's: let the sub handle 12hz an above freq(with authority),use TR devices to supplement ~12hz till single digits areas,as so comes the Crowson MAs with subs @low damping setting,quite a improvement on TR after doing so n lesses stress on the subs amp/driver also. WIN WIN!  ;D ;D ;D
Here's that post:

'I think it's important to draw a distinction between farfield and VNF, since Geo was asking about farfields, and he doesn't already have a $1300 24" driver
As for farfield chest kick, I so often see people on AVS sacrificing <20Hz when choosing/designing farfield subs in the name of chest kick, and they end up with farfield subs capable of 130dB of midbass and far less <20Hz. Then they have to boost the low end and/or cut the high end to shape a response that's tilted the wrong way, and in the process they just change the response to the shape that would have been much more easily achievable by tuning lower, and with tons more headroom <20Hz to boot. And their 130dB of headroom in the midbass does them little to no good as they never ask their subs to even produce 120dB of midbass. I see it all the time, and I just shake my head as it seems to be some "conventional wisdom" that spreads around.
Not that I'm saying you're suggesting that here, it's just that while we're on the topic of chest kick I felt the need to bring it up. In your case, your farfield 24 is capable of ~125dB of midbass all on its own. If that is your only farfield sub and you're flat to, say, 12Hz at reference in-room (I'm just using this as an example, I have no idea what your in-room response actually is) that's more a function of your room than the capabilities of your 24, because even the 24 is only capable of ~105dB natively @ 12Hz. Unfortunately that wouldn't get the job done in my room, because my two subs, which are capable of what 6 24s are capable of at 12Hz, can only just barely get it done.
The main point I'm trying to make is when designing farfield subs, chest kick is the last thing on my mind, because if I build a system capable of reference-level playback <20Hz, it's essentially a guarantee that it's at least as capable in the midbass, and the response (which is what really matters for farfield chest kick IMO) can be tailored to whatever the person wants because the headroom is there across the board. If I don't know what a room response will be like and I have to design a bang-for-the-buck system that will have the best chance to cover all the bases, I'm building 4 subs with UM18s (or multiple JBLs) ported to 12-13Hz. 4 subs will smooth the response really nicely seat-to-seat, and the subs will be capable of 124dB+ natively from 12Hz and up before room gain, boundary gain, and distance loss. In most rooms, 2 subs would get it done, just without the additional response smoothing of 4 subs. In most smaller rooms, 2-4 sealed will get it done.
Then of course add some pure TR devices and VNF sub(s) to take care of the remaining areas.'

Although he's talking about DIY sub but IMO same apply to buying sub,if possible get the 1 that can go lower with authority,12hz is the sweet spot.

Offline keai

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #152 on: February 11, 2020, 23:23 »
No no, the -3 is BEQ settings for volume. Normally with BEQ, they will let u input the filters. After which, they advise what volumes to play.

If u recall, some movies are mixed louder than others. So u need to adjust the volumes. With BEQ, they scan through the entire sound track. So if u normally listen at MV -20, u need to listen at mv -23 for this movie.

That’s what it means.
got it loud and clear, thanks bro!

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk


Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2932
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #153 on: February 12, 2020, 07:54 »
got it loud and clear, thanks bro!

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

Yes, 🙏 ^5!

That’s the best part with BEQ. Not only does it restore ULF content, it also tells u how loud the movies are mixed and to use “x” MV levels for a more balanced listening experience

What follows is u do away with the remote, eliminates the need to standby with the remote in case too loud or too soft for certain movies

Best part of BEQ, is it brings a very nice tonal balance to the entire sound track, everything sounds balanced, not overwhelming or the reverse

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2932
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #154 on: February 12, 2020, 08:41 »
With that BEQ stuff, what u can also do is adjust either the levels on the crowsons amp by -3 or adjust the levels on the Oppo -6 steps, each step is a reduction of 0.5db on the Oppo, if u use the LFE preout for the signal into Crowson amplifier

It’s also recommended to use single preout, with two cables going into Left and Right each on the crowsons. That way, it provides for a better signal transmission from LFE into crowsons. levels will also change +6db

Ideally if u listen at -19 levels on the D501 from crowsons with Oppo at 100 volume,

You can either adjust the d501 to -16db or adjust the Oppo levels to 94. Both will result in -3db reduced levels. So u don’t find the shake overwhelming for this particular movie Ford vs Ferrari

That’s what the MV on the BEQ means.

Definitely explore BEQ now that u own the crowsons, WORTH IT!

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2932
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #155 on: March 14, 2020, 14:17 »
Ok my second pair for crowsons is complete, confirmed that wooden platform feels way nicer than direct mounting onto the frames/footers of the chair

The wooden platform, provides a better tactile transmission across the entire seat, the movement is so much more natural and balanced , still a must have this crowsons, to supplement the subwoofer energy







Big thank you to bro synthesis who popped by today and took time to help me mount them, so good skills. We have also completed our plan and discussed about the salient points on the line source woofers builds

Thumbs up ! More updates to follow on line source woofers

Offline ngsk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 269
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #156 on: March 22, 2020, 09:02 »
Sharing a LPF filter setting on minidsp for Crowson amp,pls ref to the quote by the BEQ filter creator aron below. Tested yesterday afternoon with some clips from mid bass only to single digits 1 as well as the movie Ford v Ferrari(with BEQ),this filter feeling much more natural n balance,it's following a house curve style of rising slope,it might sound crazy to set a LPF @10hz but trust him n me too  ;D ;D ;D ;D. Clips use: mid bass True Legend,>20hz 28 weeks later-city bombing,~20hz 1.Pulse-server room 2.Last Airbender-waterwall 3.Olympus Has Fallen-C130 attack,<10hz Lone Servivor-gear up. Can up the level(volume) on Crowson amp to taste as said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ht guy View Post
Very cool. What would you recommend for the D-501?
I would recommend you start with just the 10Hz BW 6dB/oct LPF, and increase the level to where you like it. Then, if you're feeling like you want a little more on the low-low end, add a LS 10Hz 2.3dB Q0.5 to flatten out the single digits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Wouldn't that cause below 20hz to have less output overall? Or is it just more of a blending type thing? Could you show the diff with 10hz 6db BW vs 30hz 24b BW on graph as comparison?
No, it creates a pretty much perfect tilt to the response that creates just a superb balance throughout, way beyond anything else I've ever tried. And I ran all kinds of 24dB/oct LPFs similar to yours in the past, 40Hz, 30Hz, 20Hz, 18Hz, you name it.
Really, just trust me enough to at least give it a try.  Forget whatever you expect it to be like and just go in with an open mind, and you won't be disappointed!

The original post in here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1450832-official-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread-87.html
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 09:08 by ngsk »

Offline keai

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #157 on: March 22, 2020, 12:01 »
Sharing a LPF filter setting on minidsp for Crowson amp,pls ref to the quote by the BEQ filter creator aron below. Tested yesterday afternoon with some clips from mid bass only to single digits 1 as well as the movie Ford v Ferrari(with BEQ),this filter feeling much more natural n balance,it's following a house curve style of rising slope,it might sound crazy to set a LPF @10hz but trust him n me too  ;D ;D ;D ;D. Clips use: mid bass True Legend,>20hz 28 weeks later-city bombing,~20hz 1.Pulse-server room 2.Last Airbender-waterwall 3.Olympus Has Fallen-C130 attack,<10hz Lone Servivor-gear up. Can up the level(volume) on Crowson amp to taste as said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ht guy View Post
Very cool. What would you recommend for the D-501?
I would recommend you start with just the 10Hz BW 6dB/oct LPF, and increase the level to where you like it. Then, if you're feeling like you want a little more on the low-low end, add a LS 10Hz 2.3dB Q0.5 to flatten out the single digits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Wouldn't that cause below 20hz to have less output overall? Or is it just more of a blending type thing? Could you show the diff with 10hz 6db BW vs 30hz 24b BW on graph as comparison?
No, it creates a pretty much perfect tilt to the response that creates just a superb balance throughout, way beyond anything else I've ever tried. And I ran all kinds of 24dB/oct LPFs similar to yours in the past, 40Hz, 30Hz, 20Hz, 18Hz, you name it.
Really, just trust me enough to at least give it a try.  Forget whatever you expect it to be like and just go in with an open mind, and you won't be disappointed!

The original post in here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1450832-official-crowson-tactile-motion-actuators-thread-87.html

I presume this setting will benefit those with decent powerful sub setups which are able to provide good mid-bass and low bass up to 20Hz or even 10Hz, right?

My set up is just 1 single JL E112, I guess 10Hz LPF will kill most of the effects Crowson is giving me now, which I personally (including my wife) feels very very very enjoyable. And I did enjoy a lot of low male voices rumbling in my butt, haha, so one man's meat is another man's poison. :)

Most important is: everyone enjoys Crowson in his own way, I'm a very happy man now, with Crowson, and I'm considering buying 2 more. But having said that, I would definitely love to try this setting with an open mind once my sub gets upgraded to more powerful ones, :)

From AVS:
No one needs to feel low male voices rumbling in their butt (like James Earl Jones/Darth Vader) LOL!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 12:05 by keai »

Offline keai

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #158 on: March 22, 2020, 12:10 »
Ok my second pair for crowsons is complete, confirmed that wooden platform feels way nicer than direct mounting onto the frames/footers of the chair

The wooden platform, provides a better tactile transmission across the entire seat, the movement is so much more natural and balanced , still a must have this crowsons, to supplement the subwoofer energy







Big thank you to bro synthesis who popped by today and took time to help me mount them, so good skills. We have also completed our plan and discussed about the salient points on the line source woofers builds

Thumbs up ! More updates to follow on line source woofers

Bro Bryan, enjoy the power from 4 actuators, can only drool on your setups, still can't wipe off the memory of the hair standing feel from your seaton subs, with 4 actuators under the sofa, oh man, you are in nirvana....

Offline ngsk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 269
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #159 on: March 22, 2020, 16:53 »
I presume this setting will benefit those with decent powerful sub setups which are able to provide good mid-bass and low bass up to 20Hz or even 10Hz, right?

My set up is just 1 single JL E112, I guess 10Hz LPF will kill most of the effects Crowson is giving me now, which I personally (including my wife) feels very very very enjoyable. And I did enjoy a lot of low male voices rumbling in my butt, haha, so one man's meat is another man's poison. :)

Most important is: everyone enjoys Crowson in his own way, I'm a very happy man now, with Crowson, and I'm considering buying 2 more. But having said that, I would definitely love to try this setting with an open mind once my sub gets upgraded to more powerful ones, :)

From AVS:
No one needs to feel low male voices rumbling in their butt (like James Earl Jones/Darth Vader) LOL!

Yes Crowson MA best suprement the sub/s on <20hz content,as this filter act like a house curve which i found is incredble it's something like my subs response,so the feeling is realistic with it n a rise of level from 22 to 23 on the amp make it perfect liao for me.
Anyway it's just something i found interesting to share,we all got our own preferences,happy with it n enjoy most important. :)

Offline keai

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #160 on: March 22, 2020, 17:41 »
Yes Crowson MA best suprement the sub/s on <20hz content,as this filter act like a house curve which i found is incredble it's something like my subs response,so the feeling is realistic with it n a rise of level from 22 to 23 on the amp make it perfect liao for me.
Anyway it's just something i found interesting to share,we all got our own preferences,happy with it n enjoy most important. :)
Bro, are you the one with 3xF18 setup?

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk


Offline ngsk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 269
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #161 on: March 22, 2020, 19:03 »
Bro, are you the one with 3xF18 setup?



Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

Yes,3x Rythmik F18s.

Offline keai

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #162 on: March 22, 2020, 19:34 »
Yes,3x Rythmik F18s.

shiok! drool....

Offline ronildoq

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2932
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #163 on: March 23, 2020, 08:58 »
Check out the video from the JTR section, the youthman tour 146db

That guy had the buttkicker as well, he uses a platform for it as well. See the same thing he mentioned if it’s with a platform, it feels much more natural, vs directly mounted

I had the same experience , the energy distribution is much more equal and natural, the movement of the energy is much more natural with it mounted onto the platform

Offline ngsk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • Posts: 269
Re: Tactile Transducers
« Reply #164 on: March 29, 2020, 08:55 »
A follow up regarding the Crowson amp LPF setting,when using the 10hz/BW6db/oct filter on minidsp 2x4hd,Crowson amp LPF should be set to max to bypassed it. Just read this @aveforum Crowson MA thread,original quotes below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
I am using Crowson D-501 Tactile Motion Amplifier (the cross over is set to the lowest knob setting 40HZ) and volume level @20 and of course never watch movies without BEQ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
That looks correct!
It looks correct, other than you should set the crossover on the D-501 as high as possible (to essentially bypass it), not at low as possible. The 10Hz LPF you entered in the mDSP is intended to replace it.
Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips TR Curves
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Fusion-8 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal