Author Topic: MQA  (Read 72283 times)

Offline Audio

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Re: MQA
« Reply #510 on: January 08, 2019, 16:21 »
*Sorry, I cannot help giggling*

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Offline MusicEar

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Re: MQA
« Reply #511 on: January 09, 2019, 13:49 »
Virtually all android OS will re-sample to 48kHz and only a few with special tweaking to the OS will bypass the SRC (Sample Rate Converter) to the internal DAC. By the way how many android phones have a 96kHz capable DAC built-in?

In most case, it will down-sample to 48kHz when using the internal DAC. In some case, when using an external portable DAC with USB-OTG may work.
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Offline AndrewC

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Re: MQA
« Reply #512 on: January 09, 2019, 15:45 »
*Sorry, I cannot help giggling*

(Audio)

Glad I'm keeping you entertained  :P



Virtually all android OS will re-sample to 48kHz and only a few with special tweaking to the OS will bypass the SRC (Sample Rate Converter) to the internal DAC. By the way how many android phones have a 96kHz capable DAC built-in?

In most case, it will down-sample to 48kHz when using the internal DAC. In some case, when using an external portable DAC with USB-OTG may work.

I'm pretty sure you're very mistaken!

If you Google search, the [AudioTrack] API on Android OS supports up to 24/192k, and most of the Android phones these days have audio codecs that can support 24/96 at least. For example, the Samsung S7 (2 years old) has the Qualcomm WCD9335 audio codec which supports PCM 24/192k. Phones like LG and Sony I believe are the same or even better!

As for Android Phones to external USB DACs, 3rd party App drivers easily bypass native Android ones and support full highres... that's how Apps like USB Audio Player Pro work for actual highres support on external DACs - for example, here's what USB Audio Player Pro says;
Quote
USB Audio Player Pro, which was built specifically for USB DAC output, utilizes a custom USB audio driver that can bypass any Android sampling limitations, which means your 32-bit/384kHz files will actually play at that bitrate/frequency.

Don't be confused by Bluetooth Limitations.
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Offline MusicEar

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Re: MQA
« Reply #513 on: January 10, 2019, 18:38 »
Yes, the newer phones with the latest codecs can support up to 24/192k but it is always based on the 48kHz clock multiples (there's only one frequency based clock). If the source is 48k, 96k and 192k, you don't have an issue. The problem occurred when the source is 44.1k, 88.2k and 176.4k. The android re-sampler will kick in and convert to 48k, 96k and 192k. Re-sampling always introduces truncation errors (no longer bit perfect) and in some case increased in jitter. Tidal Master not only stream in 48kHz but also 44.1kHz. The results get decoded to 88.2/96k.

To avoid this issue, manufacturers have to incorporate two based clocks; one to handle 44.1k and the other 48kHz multiples. In technical term, it requires two separate crystal oscillators. I've not seen this implementation in android and iOS phones yet. I do see it in some android based music players. I've a Fiio X5III android based music player loaded with latest Tidal app that support MQA. This player contains two separate base clocks and a tweaked android OS to bypass the re-sampler. More information on Fiio X5III:

http://www.fiio.net/en/products/65

Playing back Tidal Master on Fiio X5III music player:


Output Fiio X5III via coaxial to Topping DX3 Pro DAC (96kHz after decoded):


Output Fiio X5III via coaxial to Topping DX3 Pro DAC (88.2kHz after decoded):


The DACs built-in for phones applications does not yield good sound quality, besides, you need an external DAC via USB-OTG to get optimised SQ. The downside, it will add weight and not everyone would want to carry a DAC stripped to their phones with messy cables.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 18:49 by MusicEar »
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Offline AndrewC

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Re: MQA
« Reply #514 on: January 10, 2019, 20:57 »
Yes, the newer phones with the latest codecs can support up to 24/192k but it is always based on the 48kHz clock multiples (there's only one frequency based clock). ...

Duh ::)  Even many mid and lower-end standalone DACs work that way too; dividing down and using fractional multipliers from a single master clock frequency. Mobile phones are no different. Expecting external DAC build quality and SQ is pretty silly.  As for portable players, FiiO is not the only one. You might want to read up on iRiver’s Astell & Kern players, MQA support since around mid last year, and IMHO, better than FiiO players by a mile.
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Offline AndrewC

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Re: MQA
« Reply #515 on: January 25, 2019, 14:05 »
Finally, an Audio Journalist with critical listening abilities to actually hear the deficiencies of MQA (like some of us can ;)).  The latest issue of HIFICRITIC (Vol 12/No.4) has a very critical piece on MQA (HFC by the way takes no Advertising $, and is just about the only unbiased HiFi publication there is);

Quote
[MQA's minimum-phase filter]... gives the impression of a more detailed sound by delaying the arrival of treble frequencies with respect to bass and midrange. However, the resulting phase distortion can manifest as loss of musical coherence, of subjective timing, and an unnatural acceleration of musical pace. Soundstage precision and proportions are also skewed...  In short, while claiming to deblur the sound, to these ears [MQA's] non-linear phase processing has the contrary effect, blurring musical timing, and spatial presentation.
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Offline malsound

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Re: MQA
« Reply #516 on: February 15, 2019, 17:06 »

Offline Doggie Howser

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Re: MQA
« Reply #517 on: February 15, 2019, 17:46 »
End of Line - Derezzed

Offline AndrewC

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Re: MQA
« Reply #518 on: February 16, 2019, 11:41 »

https://6moons.com/industry_articles/mqa/

Very ill-informed article indeed… right off the bat the guy gets it wrong…

Quote
… my basic non-technical understanding of MQA is of a process from recording to decoding which ‘folds’ or losslessly compresses higher-resolution data into smaller data stream;…”


Bzzzt.. Wrong. ::)

Actually, I don’t know why people still bother reading 6moons, it’s a pay-to-play site with pretty much useless reviews (IMHO)  :P;

https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/why/why.html

Quote

So here's the upshot. From mid July 2014 on, our review policy changed from what it was until then. From that point forward manufacturers who want a review from us commit upfront to at least a small one-month token ad.

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Offline Audio

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Re: MQA
« Reply #519 on: February 16, 2019, 12:44 »
He has a love-hate relationship with MQA.

He wishes DCS never could decode MQA....    :)

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Offline MusicEar

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Re: MQA
« Reply #520 on: February 16, 2019, 17:29 »
Duh ::)  Even many mid and lower-end standalone DACs work that way too; dividing down and using fractional multipliers from a single master clock frequency. Mobile phones are no different. Expecting external DAC build quality and SQ is pretty silly.  As for portable players, FiiO is not the only one. You might want to read up on iRiver’s Astell & Kern players, MQA support since around mid last year, and IMHO, better than FiiO players by a mile.

Fractional multiplier? where on earth you get this from? The old way of doing this is to use PLL and lock onto different sample rates but this creates significant amount of jitter and it was never use in modern DAC.

http://audio-probe.com/en/documentation/clock-jitter-and-audio-quality/?ckattempt=1

Mobile phones mainly use base clock (24.5760 MHz) that support 48k. The kernel of the OS is originally written to support this sample in mind. In order to support other than 48k, you need to use SRC. With that said, it is longer bit perfect during conversion (44.1k).

Your assertion on AK support for MQA is limited, not all its range. The support of AK for MQA is native which requires firmware updates. AK is also required to pay a licensing fee to MQA. Tidal MQA app is universally supported for any devices that run on android OS. There’s no licensing fee required in this part to decode MQA (The manufacturer) . This is main advantage here.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 17:50 by MusicEar »
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Offline AndrewC

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Re: MQA
« Reply #521 on: February 16, 2019, 22:28 »
He has a love-hate relationship with MQA.

He wishes DCS never could decode MQA....    :)

(Audio)

Comes free with a firmware upgrade that includes other stuff. Hard to resist  ;D


Fractional multiplier? where on earth you get this from? The old way of doing this is to use PLL and lock onto different sample rates but this creates significant amount of jitter and it was never use in modern DAC.

http://audio-probe.com/en/documentation/clock-jitter-and-audio-quality/?ckattempt=1

Mobile phones mainly use base clock (24.5760 MHz) that support 48k. The kernel of the OS is originally written to support this sample in mind. In order to support other than 48k, you need to use SRC. With that said, it is longer bit perfect during conversion (44.1k).

...

Hello ::)… How do you think an SRCs actually works? Specifically between rates that are not full integer factors?… Go do some homework on fractional re-sampling using interpolation and decimation.
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Offline malsound

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Offline AndrewC

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Re: MQA
« Reply #523 on: March 03, 2019, 09:25 »
Was checking out the Metallica Live Concert MQA streams on Nugs.net... And noticed that the price for MQA vs. actual high-res tracks are exactly the same  ;D

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Offline MusicEar

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Re: MQA
« Reply #524 on: March 12, 2019, 14:55 »
Tidal Master now available on iOS

https://9to5mac.com/2019/03/11/mqa/
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