Topic: Lau Lee's Message - "SINGAPORE WILL FOLD UP"

[VUE]

I think I speak for many when I say tat most, if not all forumers here are not in a position where they need financial help or anything close to tat. We are just concerned about fellow citizens who have fallen behind.  Not everyone who works hard or who are intelligent or who plan their lives properly are going to do well. Sh1t can happen even if u think u are well prepared. As to wat u say about 80% of your department needing spoon fed, I have heard duch more about dept heads or MGs who are nothin more than scums trying their best to earn big fat bonuses by relentlessly pushing those below so they can achieve high figures and impressive statistics to justify their fat say checks. I am not surprised if ppl like qrm prefers to go back to his homeland when he is old. Sg is a great place if u are old and rich but is hell if u are old and poor

Hi Chowbotak. The area of top being scums is another issue. What i want to bring up is, achievement is by planning and do it with checkpoints. Again it doesnt matter 100% is not achieved (as you mentioned to do well is not guarenteed), but im sure with a plan one will achieve part of it. At least make a plan and do and you will hold the knowledge and monies to move futher and better at the end of the "timeline". Yes shitz can always happen, but dont let it hold you back. : ) Is very nice to bring awareness to the top thus the people below or the fallen citizens can benefit.

[myguy]

I am only using my experience of helping out in a local hospice for the elderly here, no help from the govt, they have to totally rely on charitable donation and volunteers. Agree with you on local family values but I have been brought up in a way where I do not want to burden my children with looking after me. They will have enough on their plates looking after their own young family.  My elderly father who spent all his life in Asia had to return to the uk as there was no way he could afford the medical bills. At least now his medicine is covered and he has people who come around the house to install all the equipment and provide a free transport service. Sure it not free every uk citizen pays for it over their life time. But it was nice when I broke my foot in the uk to have full medical treatment, wheelchairs, and even the cost of my taxi all for "free"

I have been to these hospices. They are disgraceful because some poor families who wont or cant take care of their elderly parents dump their parents there and they are short of funds. But from what I read and see on TV, many hospices and nursing homes in the UK and US who take in the poor abuse their incapacitated patients and are little better. Perhaps if you are rich in the west then you can afford a Beverly Hills hospice, but the reality is that most, especially those in the poor inner cities of the US are as bad as Singapore's The difference is that with Asian family values, many more families here take care of their elderly parents and grandparents compared to US/UK, so overall the elderly probably are better off here. I think that Western local family values are what contributes to the disregard of the elderly by their families in the West and why so many more end up in nursing homes.

You may have medical care for free in the UK, but there is a lot of criticism of it too. There are long lines of people waiting for non-critical procedures. As an expat in Singapore, you must face incredible medical charges, but at least you get treated immediately. For the rest of us Singaporeans, we rely on the Polyclinics and Government hospitals. Yes, you have to wait, and there is a cost, but the cost is usually reasonable. For example, when I got my regular prescriptions from my company doctor, it used to cost the company over $300 per month. At the Polyclinic, the same medicines cost me only $10. Medical care in Singapore for citizens isn't free and you have to wait like for your NHS, but it is a fraction of what you pay. So don't think your UK system is much better than Singapore's.

[myguy]

You serious who wants to be be employed if they don't have to? There's more to life than working! Like most people pointed out those who work in their twilight years do so because they have no choice.  In fact i would bet 90 percent of the working population would rather travel, write books, paint, and just sit at home and stare at the ceiling if they had the option. There are a few exceptions one specialist surgeon i know who is in his mid seventies continues to work as he find great satisfaction in saving Peoples lives.

Again you speak from the point of the wealthy in the West. Do you really think that the poor old people in the US/UK wouldn't want jobs. I've seen the delapidated conditions poor people live in Harlem and the Bronx in New York. I can't imagine that they are happy and every day is a struggle to survive. Hey, the rich in Singapore retire nicely too...

Besides, with 10-30% unemployed or underemployed in the U.S. and far higher numbers in Europe, its not just your old and poor who are getting desperate. All these Government-paid vacations in Italy and Greece are coming back now to destroy the European Monetary Union, which could create a LOT of poor and desperate Europeans. Nah, you can take those western values and keep them. Singapore is doing fine as it is. No need to lecture us on how it could be better. No need to criticize Singapore about being authoritarian when you have the Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay.

[myguy]

100 percent agree when ever I get a form here that asks for my race I always stick down "human race" reminds me of a situation a few years ago. A regiment in the UK was accused of being racist, when asked how many coloured soldiers they have within the regiment, they simply replied that they are not racist so do not separate people into skin categories, as a result they did not have a clue how many dark skinned folks they had.  It was zero.

It was strange when I arrived here what was considered morally wrong or in some cases illegal in the west is perfectly OK to ask on official forms or in general conversation,how much you earn, how old you are, sexual orientation, what race you are, and if you are planning on getting pregnant etc.

Another staggering thing was seeing adverts for tenants and signs saying " no Indians allowed" " Chinese only apply" I was told officially its because certain race quotas needed to be met?  It is a double edge sword in many ways you can argue at least the racism is upfront and in the open. By making it illegal in the west so some poor Indian family will trek all the way to aN apartment do the whole viewing lark, not knowing the owners will not be renting to an Indian family.

Pernakan? Interesting that means effectively you or you family are an immigrant or FT twice over, once when arriving on the mainland and FT again when pitching up on these sunny shores? I love the whole peranakan cultural thing. My daughter had a lovely outfit made for special occasions.

And all these wonderful western ideals of being so sensitive about race are good? They are good or "morally right in your words" only until someone blows up the World Trade Center and then you have the Patriot Act, which is just like our Internal Security Act. After some white supremacist blew up the federal building in Olkaholma, they pulled all Arab-looking people off planes across the U.S.

Singapore's way has kept the racial tensions at bay for a long time.

[myguy]

Funny there was a sort of poll on one of the expat website about dating local women and the general conclusion was stick with Malays, Indians, and mixed girls as the Chinese ladies seem only interested in the size of the wallets. So the moral of the story Chinese men should marry non Chinese ladies?

BTW re that recent poll that stick SG as the number one spot in GDP, there's another poll that looks at quality of life and SG comes below Botswana?!  Just goes to show money can't buy you happiness, like wild animals the population increases when all in warren are chirpy

http://www1.internationalliving.com/qofl2011/?field=final

I just feel like I have to respond to your warped view of Singapore. You must be very unhappy here!

Male expats attract a certain sort of women. They are called SPG to us and they can be of any race. They generally prefer rich expats and the locals aren't too fond of them generally.

As for your poll, if you looked at the detail, Singapore is there because it ranked very low on "climate" and "freedom". The first we can't do much about and frankly Singaporeans brought up here prefer the warm weather here than freezing their butts off in cold countries. Freedom is something we debate here, but not all consider this an issue. The poll was definitely not done on Singaporeans. If expats think that its nicer to live in Botswana than Singapore, then good for them. I, for one, would not want to move to Botswana.

[francis wu]

BTW re that recent poll that stick SG as the number one spot in GDP, there's another poll that looks at quality of life and SG comes below Botswana?!  Just goes to show money can't buy you happiness, like wild animals the population increases when all in warren are chirpy

http://www1.internationalliving.com/qofl2011/?field=final

Sorry to disappoint you, I rather be rich and happy than be poor and happy

Are you happy here!!!

[qrm]

Sorry to disappoint you, I rather be rich and happy than be poor and happy

Are you happy here!!!

You betcha I love this place! Would not be here otherwise I just wish they would allow dual citizenship then would snap it up.  The downside of the place expensive cars, no porno mags, an education system that churns out people with their helmets screwed on a little bit too tight and a few too many happy clapper does nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for the place.  I have lived in so many places around the world and SG is where I have chosen to sink my roots.  At least it's above north Korea in the quality of life stakes. I was well chuffed we got our PR and was more than willing to do my 2 year " how to kill Malaysians" stint but I am a bit to old for that.

[f_spider]

Allow me to b curious myguy...

U mentioned u stayed here a long time. Any reasons why u did not serve NS? Were u already here when u were at an age when one is eligible to b called up? 

[myguy]

Allow me to b curious myguy...

U mentioned u stayed here a long time. Any reasons why u did not serve NS? Were u already here when u were at an age when one is eligible to b called up? 

You are a curious one. I was on an employment pass here for a long time, then became a PR and recently became a citizen. As a first generation PR, I registered at CMPB to serve NS, then they waived it.

[Austrich]

You betcha I love this place! Would not be here otherwise I just wish they would allow dual citizenship then would snap it up.  The downside of the place expensive cars, no porno mags, an education system that churns out people with their helmets screwed on a little bit too tight and a few too many happy clapper does nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for the place.  I have lived in so many places around the world and SG is where I have chosen to sink my roots. At least it's above north Korea in the quality of life stakes. I was well chuffed we got our PR and was more than willing to do my 2 year " how to kill Malaysians" stint but I am a bit to old for that.

You got a JOB here to survive, you should be grateful man... how can you be so unfair to compare Singapore with North Korea ?  You better make sure PAP is not reading this ... 

[myguy]

You got a JOB here to survive, you should be grateful man... how can you be so unfair to compare Singapore with North Korea ?  You better make sure PAP is not reading this ... 

He is just a sh*t stirrer. Typical of british expats who have been here long enough to think they understand enough to make jokes about how things work here with their beer buddies and on expat forums, but in reality have lived in a expat cocoon, drink too much and write nonsense while inebriated.

[feuilly]

You got a JOB here to survive, you should be grateful man... how can you be so unfair to compare Singapore with North Korea ?  You better make sure PAP is not reading this ... 

Especially his this sentence: "my 2 year " how to kill Malaysians" stint".

What do you actually meant by it?

[qrm]

Especially his this sentence: "my 2 year " how to kill Malaysians" stint".

What do you actually meant by it?

It a bit sad when you have to explain a funny,  the govt thinks there's a bit of a short fall in courtesy, arts, and sports within the curriculum may be humour should be added to the list?  Anyway to explain it.... From the general chat with local folks it would appear the main perceived threat to SG is from over the border.  Correct me if i am wrong, It's only recently sg malays are allowed to hold senoir positions within the armed ranks? Can't imagine why as the malaysian are the nicest bunch of people around, I even married one. Let's be honest I can't imagine deep in some Russian bunker they are making plans to invade SG. so the whole NS thing I assume is training young men how to kill other young men and the perceived target is......  Dah da... Not so funny when you have to explain things which is why I think kids should be allowed out more to socialise and roll around the grass with other kids rather than sit in tutorials all the time.

[louco73]

He is just a sh*t stirrer. Typical of british expats who have been here long enough to think they understand enough to make jokes about how things work here with their beer buddies and on expat forums, but in reality have lived in a expat cocoon, drink too much and write nonsense while inebriated.

I would say it's best not to make sweeping generalisations about someone without meeting them and getting to know them first.

I'm an expat here, for nearly 9 years now, and a lot of what qrm says resonates with me. I've lived in 5 countries and he has lived in a few apparently too. Surely if we see things in Singapore operating in a certain way, after having other countries to compare with, there must be some substance to what is raised? Oh, and I don't even drink .

Other points about Asian values vs Western values are fairly moot. They are called Asian values and Western values precisely because they are different and can therefore not be called the same. They are not necessarily better or worse than one another, just different.

For example, what you may see as a parent having a horrible life in a hospice, could be their personal choice to avoid putting strain on the family to look after them. My grandma refuses to be with family because she doesn't want to put her sons through what she went through with her parents. My parents are of the same opinion, in fact my mother jokingly says "if I get to that stage just shoot me." Yet my step-Nana lived a long retirement into her late 90's with most of that involving 3 months stays in Australia (she is a Kiwi) with us and spending time with other family members. She was even cared for by her daughter until she needed hospital care.

While we may see, with 3 generations living together in an HDB, as a burden and difficult, you see as your purpose as children to look after your parents. I might add, that the ability to have live in carers in most Asian countries facilitates home care which I'm sure many western people would avail of, but it's simply not a reality.

In summary, we all have different upbringings, values and beliefs. Learn from each other, discuss the differences and perhaps even adjust your own opinion on the basis of the evidence in front of you. However, please refrain from making sweeping attacks on an individual and a large group (British Expats, of which I'm not one) that you presumably do not know.

[qrm]

He is just a sh*t stirrer. Typical of british expats who have been here long enough to think they understand enough to make jokes about how things work here with their beer buddies and on expat forums, but in reality have lived in a expat cocoon, drink too much and write nonsense while inebriated.

Interesting enough I don't drink either, my wife has a soft spot for fine wines and with the prices of the stuff in SG one in the family is more than enough.  It just seems when ever I try to get people to think out of their comfort zone, the thought processes cannot cope, the brain just defaults to name calling... I am not implying what I am saying is right or wrong just trying to show that life is not so text book black and white.