XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Audio => Topic started by: TRS on March 10, 2010, 17:16

Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: TRS on March 10, 2010, 17:16
Hi everyone,
I recently bought a new Bel Canto S300iU, and it's great, but I have a question for any other owners out there.

Do you leave your amp in standby when not in use, or do you use the hard power switch at the back to turn it off?  I ask because I have found that if mine is left in standby mode during the day, or overnight (when the a/c isn't on in that room) it gets quite hot all over, even at the front.  It has fair ventilation too - it's not squeezed into a really small compartment or anything.
Obviously if I use the hard off switch at the rear this doesn't happen.

Is it a bad idea to leave it on standby for long periods and have it being constantly warm?

Thanks for any info :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on March 10, 2010, 17:28
Left them on for more than a year now....no issues even in non-air con room.

Amplifers are not human being......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: yihyan on March 10, 2010, 17:37
Hi everyone,
I recently bought a new Bel Canto S300iU, and it's great, but I have a question for any other owners out there.

Do you leave your amp in standby when not in use, or do you use the hard power switch at the back to turn it off?  I ask because I have found that if mine is left in standby mode during the day, or overnight (when the a/c isn't on in that room) it gets quite hot all over, even at the front.  It has fair ventilation too - it's not squeezed into a really small compartment or anything.
Obviously if I use the hard off switch at the rear this doesn't happen.

Is it a bad idea to leave it on standby for long periods and have it being constantly warm?

Thanks for any info :)

i'm using s300i, left it on all the time, except when i'm on vacation 

Ya, it does feel a bit warm, but so far doesn't seems to cause any problem.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: ilovepanerai on March 10, 2010, 17:49
Am a big fan of Bel Canto equipments...

I have never switched off the Ref1000s ever since i got it few months back.
Only time its off is when i change cables on the amps.

The BC consume very little electric and to minimise any warm up, i simply do not switch them off.

Cheers
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 10, 2010, 18:23
The S300i and its ilk is basically a Pre3 input stage coupled to 2xM300 monoblocks in one chassis. The first generation S300i did not have a hard power switch, and was designed to be left on standby 24/7. The later S300i series has the said power switch because some customers tend to change cables whilst the amp was on standby. Due to the nature of its balanced design, damage may occur and void the warranty. It's in the user manual page 4.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 20:21
Never powered off the REF1000s unless I went away for long trips. Ditto after I upgraded to MkIIs. They do get a bit warm but not hot. Not as hot as my Benchmark DAC1 Pre even when the Pre is on standby.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: isplash on March 10, 2010, 22:22
I once emailed Bel Canto pertaining to the heat issue on my S300i and was advised by the Technical Sales Manager, Matt Cramer that this is normal.

He also recommend not to use the on/off switch behind and best is to leave the int amp "on" or  in "standby" unless one is leaving home for several weeks.       
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: fengshenwee on March 11, 2010, 17:00
Using a S300. No such thing as standby mode. Maybe there is but no switch for me to press besides the on/off switch at the back.

Switch it off everytime when I am not using. environmentalist here. :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 11, 2010, 17:39
Only my Power Amp has a physical power switch. The S300 is a power amp.

The S300i is an integrated amp which shares the pre-amp section with the Pre3.

The Pre3 has a standby option. It turns the display to "- - -". I am pretty sure the S300i has it too.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: TRS on March 11, 2010, 18:47

The Pre3 has a standby option. It turns the display to "- - -". I am pretty sure the S300i has it too.


You are correct.  That's exactly what the S300i does when in standby too.

Thanks for the helpful information everyone, I'll just leave it on standby all the time. :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 11, 2010, 18:52
I never even put the Pre3 on standby ;)

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: TRS on March 11, 2010, 21:23
Interesting. Good to know, as I'm planning on buying one of the new Bel Canto DACs when they hit the ground in Singapore.

Actually, the Pre3 or any of the DACs would surely not get as hot as an integrated amp, right?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 11, 2010, 22:22
You are getting the VBS upgrade? :)

Which model are you getting? The 3.5VB? There are a few models with the entry one competing quite strongly against the traditional cost-effective Benchmark series. Haven't heard these models tho. The 3VB sounds pretty incredible.

Currently using the nonVB versions of the Pre3/Phono3 hooked to REF1000MkIIx2s (upgraded from MkIs) which I think have now been rebadged as REF1000Ms.

Contemplating a REF500M for the center channel when I get the MCS-1 since my current AVR isn't really rated for 4ohm loads.


Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: jonlee on March 11, 2010, 23:31
DH, ur denon cannot handle the MCS1 as a centre spk meh?  Avr cannot handle main spks I agree, but centre spk mostly dialog.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on March 11, 2010, 23:39
DH, ur denon cannot handle the MCS1 as a centre spk meh?  Avr cannot handle main spks I agree, but centre spk mostly dialog.

bro, thats where you are wrong... center also got bassy punch effects. if your center spk itself cannot deliver you wont hear it.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 11, 2010, 23:59
The newer Denons are not really rated for 4ohm operation. Think it has been the case since x09 series. In the past, the higher end 38xx and up range were still thx certified and 4ohm operation was a criteria for the thx approval.

My old Onkyo had a 4ohm mode but that was THX Ultra2 certified.

FWIW I suspect the 4810 is already quite taxed driving 9 channels with DSX now so I suspect offloading the center channel should help as well.
 
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: TRS on March 12, 2010, 00:25
You are getting the VBS upgrade? :)

Which model are you getting? The 3.5VB? There are a few models with the entry one competing quite strongly against the traditional cost-effective Benchmark series. Haven't heard these models tho. The 3VB sounds pretty incredible.

Currently using the nonVB versions of the Pre3/Phono3 hooked to REF1000MkIIx2s (upgraded from MkIs) which I think have now been rebadged as REF1000Ms.


I don't actually have a DAC yet, so no VBS upgrades :)  I'm not sure that my simple setup warrants sophistication like VBS technology...  Well, not yet!  I live in a small apartment so am just driving a set of the little known but quite amazing Lenehan ML-1 (http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/) speakers from Australia (just like me), and an old REL Strata 5 woofer.

I am leaning toward the lower end BC DACs to be honest, as they have the number of inputs I want and look like they will work well as a pre-amp, so I have the option/flexibility to move to another amp in the future.  IIRC the only difference I could tell between the 1.5 and 2.5 was that the 2.5 had an external power supply?  Perhaps there are other differences I don't know about yet.

Obviously I need to hear them before purchasing, but the BC units seem a lot more functional than units like the Benchmark series, and the prices I've heard for the 1.5 are little more than the Benchmark so they look like quite good value, as you say.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 00:31
I think the external power supplies mean it is ready for the VBS upgrade.

If you are using the DAC as a Pre Amp why get the S300i? Why not get the S300 or better yet the S500 power amps ;)

Not sure abt the Bel Canto distributor in Australia. Over here in Singapore,  was told the 3.5VB is coming in real soon now. 
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: TRS on March 12, 2010, 00:41
If you are using the DAC as a Pre Amp why get the S300i? Why not get the S300 or better yet the S500 power amps ;)

I know I know.  Well when I bought it last year, there was no word of these new BC DACs coming out. And as another trap for young players, I bought the amp before I bought the speakers, and while they're fine with the S300i, they could always do with more power.  We're talking bookshelf speakers here, and the manufacturer told me to run them in I should "play them hard" just like he does with 700w McIntosh Monoblocks!  :o

And it's not like a near new S300iU would be hard to sell around here anyway.

...I actually live in Singapore BTW, not Aus :)  I was told about the ML1's by friends back home but wanted to audition before purchase.  By a stroke of luck I discovered that Audio Trio were selling the speakers up here, so it was an easy decision.
I wasn't even planning on buying a DAC until Alex at Audio Trio got in my ear about it!  ;D

It's a slippery slope. :P
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 01:43
Another potential candidate for a DAC to consider is the Wyred4Sound's upcoming DAC1 which uses the Sabre32 DAC. I really love how it improved the sound of the OppoSE.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 22, 2010, 16:28
(http://www.belcantodesign.com/images/blackad03.jpg)

Crap. Bel Canto now available in Black Finish!!!

:P

Good thing my AVR and other gear are primarily in the silver finish..

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: jayou on March 22, 2010, 16:48
looks ugly to me.  I know of people who spray paint the frame before this to match their other black components.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: yihyan on March 22, 2010, 18:42
(http://www.belcantodesign.com/images/blackad03.jpg)

Crap. Bel Canto now available in Black Finish!!!

:P

Good thing my AVR and other gear are primarily in the silver finish..



Its sexy :D

Can we upgrade the faceplate...............
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 22, 2010, 18:59
Can check with SD I guess. :)

As for me, think I'll stick with the standard silver finish even if I get a new 500M as on my Pre3, Phono3 and other REF1000Ms.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 23, 2010, 15:59
Can't wait to set up my REF500M tonight.. got the AW1 hooked up to the AVR last night, and even got a pair of mini stereo-RCA interconnects ready for the AW1.

Now just have to figure out how to get them to fit in the limited space I have...
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 05, 2011, 16:18
Do they even sell this rack??

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/NewPicture5-1.jpg)

Looks kinda nice.. even if I'm not sure if there are any sonic improvements from such a design ;)

Great way to hide my snake's lair behind my current rack.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chewed on January 05, 2011, 19:15

DH,

now that's a nice rack... 8)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: wsdavidcheah on January 05, 2011, 19:56
Hey sorry to hijack but couldn't resist. Just brought a pre-owned Bel Canto Dac 3.0 just wondering anyone using this to advise me whenever u powered on the set do u have to manually set it to the function u are using i.e SP1 or SP2 or OP etc. Also I noticed other Dac allows up sampling, but there's no  selection knob to do that???
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 05, 2011, 20:08
My Benchmark didn't have a sample rate setting either.

And I never even power off the DAC3.5
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: wsdavidcheah on January 05, 2011, 20:40
So assuming if u power down, next time when u turn it on will it be on the previous setting? Or do u have to select again?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 05, 2011, 21:33
The DAC3.5 doesn't have a standby mode.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 15, 2012, 21:58
(http://audiofederation.com/ces-2012/r/IMG_4540-bel-canto-small.jpg)

What's the weird Bel Canto box with multiple lights? A new VBS?

Oh wait.. just figured it out. It's the CD3T
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: SD on February 16, 2012, 16:24
Do they even sell this rack??

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/NewPicture5-1.jpg)

Looks kinda nice.. even if I'm not sure if there are any sonic improvements from such a design ;)

Great way to hide my snake's lair behind my current rack.

Hi Doggie,
yes Bel Canto do sell the Rack. Its a custom made rack by them upon request.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 16, 2012, 18:28
Sam, is the upgrade for the DAC3.5VB MKII available? :)

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: slkk on February 16, 2012, 21:16
DH,
They took off from Minneapolis already. Should be landing soon. I'll keep u posted. Cheers!!

Sammy Low
Sound Decisions.
Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 16, 2012, 21:37
Cool!
Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 18, 2013, 22:28
My father-in-law blames me for poisoning him with the Bel Canto system so overnight he's removed his Audiolab 8200CDQ, Wyred4Sound ST500 and Maranfz NA7004 digital/analog tuner with the 3 box Bel Canto equivalent: DAC2.5, REF500S and FM1.

The FM1 is new to me. Didn't realize Bel Canto would build an FM tuner. It's not cheap but the quality of the reception is exceptional. Compared to my old NAD tuner or the Marantz. It's so good a source, listening to FM as a hifi source is no longer unheard of. It also has XLR outputs!!! Not only that, it converts the FM audio into a 24/96 stream that I can use to feed the DAC2.5's digital inputs!!

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/4EB8F28A-1893-4952-A23B-548DB61F6E01-16440-000011585DB743E8_zps9fd9fcbe.jpg)

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Instek_88 on April 18, 2013, 23:47
The FM to 24/96 function is really interesting. This is like a ADC function. Can this "ADC" function be used for vinyl rip?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 18, 2013, 23:55
Sadly no. Though it's a matter of time for Bel Canto, I bet. They build an ADC into the DAC2.5/3.5 as well IIRC
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on April 19, 2013, 00:42
Want to ADC vinyl?....Do a Ayre DA-9....hee heee

http://www.ayre.com/manuals/Ayre_QA9_Manual.pdf

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on April 19, 2013, 09:16
BC spokesman has spoken.  ;D
Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 19, 2013, 14:36
BC spokesman has spoken.  ;D

Except Audio now uses a full Ayre system to drive his 3.7s

Credit where credit's due. The Bel Cantos are just phenomenal value for money. The only model I'd not recommend is the S300/S300i/M300 for serious music listening. Which sadly is the one you had experience with.

I compared the W4S ST500 vs the Bel Canto REF500S and have to say the BCD still sounds noticeably better. And SD's pricing makes the BCD well within reach of someone springing for a brand new ST500 IMHO.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chewed on April 19, 2013, 15:10
My father-in-law blames me for poisoning him with the Bel Canto system so overnight he's removed his Audiolab 8200CDQ, Wyred4Sound ST500 and Maranfz NA7004 digital/analog tuner with the 3 box Bel Canto equivalent: DAC2.5, REF500S and FM1.

The FM1 is new to me. Didn't realize Bel Canto would build an FM tuner. It's not cheap but the quality of the reception is exceptional. Compared to my old NAD tuner or the Marantz. It's so good a source, listening to FM as a hifi source is no longer unheard of. It also has XLR outputs!!! Not only that, it converts the FM audio into a 24/96 stream that I can use to feed the DAC2.5's digital inputs!!



DH,

buay zhai si, poison father-in-law....
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: kuryakin on April 19, 2013, 15:37
Any views about its C7R receiver? A half-width all-in-one receiver may fit in a bedroom setup of sorts.
Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 19, 2013, 15:57
Any views about its C7R receiver? A half-width all-in-one receiver may fit in a bedroom setup of sorts.

That was what I was looking at initially. :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on April 19, 2013, 16:06
I would be interested to know how would the Bel canto Ref500S sound like vs the Wyred4Sound ST500. I am a user of the Bel Canto S300 with DAC3 and I am wondering is it worth to upgrade to the Ref500S.

Just wondering other than branding, why does the Ben Canto Ref500s have such a premium over the W4S ST500 since both specs are similar and also both are using ICE modules.

My father-in-law blames me for poisoning him with the Bel Canto system so overnight he's removed his Audiolab 8200CDQ, Wyred4Sound ST500 and Maranfz NA7004 digital/analog tuner with the 3 box Bel Canto equivalent: DAC2.5, REF500S and FM1.

The FM1 is new to me. Didn't realize Bel Canto would build an FM tuner. It's not cheap but the quality of the reception is exceptional. Compared to my old NAD tuner or the Marantz. It's so good a source, listening to FM as a hifi source is no longer unheard of. It also has XLR outputs!!! Not only that, it converts the FM audio into a 24/96 stream that I can use to feed the DAC2.5's digital inputs!!

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/4EB8F28A-1893-4952-A23B-548DB61F6E01-16440-000011585DB743E8_zps9fd9fcbe.jpg)


Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 19, 2013, 16:27
Call SD, the difference may not be as big as you think.

The REF500S uses the third gen module vs the ST500. That may account for the improvements. But W4S just released a third gen ICEpowered monoblock as well. That may be worth a look. But BC's REF monoblock adds the input buffer and power supply rails as well (the W4S adds input buffer).
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on April 19, 2013, 16:40
Ya. I should pay SD a visit. I would like to stick to BC since I have space constraint and also want to keep the uniform look. Thats why interested in the Ref500s.

Bro DH, any experience on how the Ref500S will sound compared to the S300? I personally would love the additional power from the 500s

Call SD, the difference may not be as big as you think.

The REF500S uses the third gen module vs the ST500. That may account for the improvements. But W4S just released a third gen ICEpowered monoblock as well. That may be worth a look. But BC's REF monoblock adds the input buffer and power supply rails as well (the W4S adds input buffer).
Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 19, 2013, 17:01
I always found the ASP250 to sound the worst of the second gen modules. There's something that the lower output module doesn't deliver.

Oddly enough, the third gen modules like the ones in the C7R sound better even though its lower powered.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on April 19, 2013, 17:10
I suppose the S300 use the ASP250 module?

So seems like the upgrade is worth it.

I always found the ASP250 to sound the worst of the second gen modules. There's something that the lower output module doesn't deliver.

Oddly enough, the third gen modules like the ones in the C7R sound better even though its lower powered.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 19, 2013, 17:18
I suppose the S300 use the ASP250 module?

So seems like the upgrade is worth it.


I would say yes. Heck, I'm almost tempted to get the in-law to trade in to the REF500Ms!! haha!
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on April 19, 2013, 17:26
I doubt I can go for the Ref500Ms since I have space constraint. Would be very satisfied with the Ref500S if can get a good deal for it!


I would say yes. Heck, I'm almost tempted to get the in-law to trade in to the REF500Ms!! haha!
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on April 19, 2013, 17:36
Except Audio now uses a full Ayre system to drive his 3.7s

Credit where credit's due. The Bel Cantos are just phenomenal value for money. The only model I'd not recommend is the S300/S300i/M300 for serious music listening. Which sadly is the one you had experience with.

I compared the W4S ST500 vs the Bel Canto REF500S and have to say the BCD still sounds noticeably better. And SD's pricing makes the BCD well within reach of someone springing for a brand new ST500 IMHO.

Haha. Yes. I do know the BCs are good. Audio once brought over his 1000mk2 to drive my then 2.4. Amazing.
Well if funds permit I might consider 1 to drive my Center speaker. The Dyn 200C does not sound good driven by the LX86 itself.
Title: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 20, 2013, 21:07
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/19F321A1-0933-412E-9C66-7F67BBD1EE33-18119-000012EEAEA73F85_zpsa4deed43.jpg)

Spot the difference

Ah it's good to catch up with Audio and Francis again.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on April 20, 2013, 23:34
Oh, it looks even now.... LOL... :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2013, 00:35
Oh, it looks even now.... LOL... :)

(Audio)

heh

have a safe flight back buddy
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2013, 16:52
heh
have a safe flight back buddy

Thanks, I told my wife about the new purchase just minutes after we walk out of our favorite BelCanto shop.

Everything is nice and peaceful especially when it is your birthday month.   :)

(Audio)

Flight is delayed as we approaches the departure time at the gate.  Budget airlines, what do you expect....saw the flight crew walk down the aero bridge only to discover that it is not connected, the aircraft is late.  :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 30, 2013, 13:22
Resistance is futile. I finally succumb to a pair of Ref500M to replace my S300 which is hook up to my DAC3 and they are now in the running in phase. SD mention it will take about 200 hours to sound good but was reading the forum that it takes up to 1500 hours. I guess it will be a while before I can hear the full potential of the Ref500M.

After almost 20 years in my hifi journey, this is the first time I have ever gotten myself a monoblocks. Now is to wait for the results!

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: matty on May 30, 2013, 13:58
bro Audiolab, congrats! what speakers are you pairing up with the Ref500M?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 30, 2013, 14:06
Long time no chat Matty. Didn't expect to see you in this thread. I am having a pair of selfmade floorstanders with Scanspeak Revelators and also loads of good stuff in the crossover.

How have your journey been? What are u using now? I guess you would have already change all your setup since you are into exploring.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: boring on May 30, 2013, 14:55
You're back in the game again I see!

Resistance is futile. I finally succumb to a pair of Ref500M to replace my S300 which is hook up to my DAC3 and they are now in the running in phase. SD mention it will take about 200 hours to sound good but was reading the forum that it takes up to 1500 hours. I guess it will be a while before I can hear the full potential of the Ref500M.

After almost 20 years in my hifi journey, this is the first time I have ever gotten myself a monoblocks. Now is to wait for the results!


Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 30, 2013, 14:58
Whoa, another long time friend whom I have not met suddenly appear!

No lah, my kid is of a age when I can start to enjoy music again. I have about 30 CDs which I have bought in my overseas trip which I have not open. So I need a good system to enjoy them.

How about you bro? Still overseas or back to Singapore?

You're back in the game again I see!

You're back in the game again I see!

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on May 30, 2013, 14:59
No need to wait for "burn-in"....the switch from S-300 to Ref-500 should be very significant.

Congrats, the Ref-500 is the best sounding Bel Canto has to offer......until the black series launches....   :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 30, 2013, 15:04
Thanks bro! I am already hearing the difference. But since I can let it run in, will do it concurrently as well.

Black series? Oh my god, more poison coming!!!

No need to wait for "burn-in"....the switch from S-300 to Ref-500 should be very significant.

Congrats, the Ref-500 is the best sounding Bel Canto has to offer......until the black series launches....   :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 30, 2013, 22:51
Listen to my setup after about 50 hours of run in for my Bel Canto Ref500M. Now I know why Sammy from SD and also bro DH mention that the Ref500M sounds sweet. My god, when I was playing music with strings, guitars and violins, it sound so so sweet even at 50 hours run in. Vocal tracks just capture my heart and get me listening forgetting about time.

Play 3 disc together namely Zhao Peng's Greatest Basso Vol 1, Allan Taylor's Color to the Moon and Take Dake with Neptune's Asian Roots. The vocal of both Allan Taylor and Zhao Peng just sound so real. Allan Taylor's guitar tracks with his raspy voice just sound so sweet on the new setup. With Take Dake's disc, the staging is wider, slam is better, bass hit deeper yet tighter and imaging is just so sharp. Highs are better extended and yet smooth.

With just 50 hours and I am getting such a difference, I am wondering what 200 hours or even 1000 hours can bring to the sound quality. I am looking how can the sound further improve.......

Just a question to bros who use BC amps before, do they run in when they are just power on or they need to "sing" with music being played through them? I will be away for a week for work next week so meaning that the setup will not be getting run in with music while I am away.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 30, 2013, 23:31
I used to run a Logitech Squeezebox to my DAC and use a remote control software to play the system while I was at work :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 30, 2013, 23:41
I am using my iPad to stream music through my airport express to the Dac. I do that when I am at work. But when I am overseas, that will be harder to do ESP sometimes the connection might be lost or then the battery run out on the iPad. I do not want to constantly charge the iPad. Another possibility is to hook my Macbook on USB to DAC and run but that means my laptop have to be running non stop.

Must think of new ideas as 1 week away means I lose more than 150 hours of run in.

I used to run a Logitech Squeezebox to my DAC and use a remote control software to play the system while I was at work :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: watchdog on May 31, 2013, 08:12
Just to share how I run in my gear.

http://www.hagtech.com/frybaby.html

It comes with a small switched mode wall wart to power it. When I get new speakers, I just hook them up to a small class T amp, hook it up to the frybaby as source, and burn it over weekends, or when I'm away overseas. Device has paid off for itself many times over. It can also output low level signals to burn in your MC/MM stage. You can use it to run in cables to.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 31, 2013, 08:21
Thanks for the reply watchdog. The issue I have is that I do my have a Pre amp and my Dac is been use as a Pre amp. So I need a digital input as source and therefore te frybaby is not suitable since its RCA out.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: watchdog on May 31, 2013, 08:34
@Audiolab, Ha Ha, you are right. Looks like your notebook method is the best option for you.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on May 31, 2013, 22:57
Another update after clocking another 24 hours of run in on my Ref500Ms. Now they clock about 70 hours of run in. The sound smoothen even more. Vocal has even become more engaging and sweet. Overall musicality like staging, highs extension, bass control and etc has improved again. I am constantly looking forward to what this new babies can bring everytime I listen to them!

As for my question on run in, I manage to get my old Audiolab 8000CD to start working and will be using it to run in my setup while I am away. Thanks for the all the suggestion!
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on June 11, 2013, 11:03
Just to do a quick survey, for owners of Bel Canto amps, what speakers are u using? Was thinking my last upgrade will be the speakers and I am looking around for recommendations on what speakers go well with Class D amplifiers. I am now using the Ref500M and I am looking preferably at floorstanders to fill my room which is about 6 X 8m.

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 11, 2013, 11:38
Thiel CS2.7 :)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on June 11, 2013, 12:33
Most Bel Canto users here uses Thiel........it a natural as these 2 brands are distributed by the same Singapore dealer.....

You also can get to listen to this combo before you buy.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: jonlee on June 11, 2013, 13:12
Thiel CS2.7 :)

huh?  u  not on 3.7 meh?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 11, 2013, 13:23
huh?  u  not on 3.7 meh?

Recommendation ma

I think the 3.7 may be out of the budget but I read that Thiel is revisiting their pricing of the 2.7s.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on June 11, 2013, 13:27
U know me well that 3.7 is out of league. Even the 2.7s I think my CFO will kill me. Haha!

Recommendation ma

I think the 3.7 may be out of the budget but I read that Thiel is revisiting their pricing of the 2.7s.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on June 11, 2013, 13:28
I know that a lot of BC owners are on Thiels. Was looking for other recommendations as well. I have to admit the CS1.7 and CS2.7 is in my radar now.

Most Bel Canto users here uses Thiel........it a natural as these 2 brands are distributed by the same Singapore dealer.....

You also can get to listen to this combo before you buy.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on June 11, 2013, 14:18
I know that a lot of BC owners are on Thiels. Was looking for other recommendations as well. I have to admit the CS1.7 and CS2.7 is in my radar now.


I mean I am trying very hard not to be bias here.  But.........

Do explore the same friendly dealer as he got loads of pre-owned 2.4 after most of their former owners would have upgraded.  I started with a pre-owned 2.4 as well.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on June 11, 2013, 14:28
Good tip bro. Will ask Sammy!

I mean I am trying very hard not to be bias here.  But.........

Do explore the same friendly dealer as he got loads of pre-owned 2.4 after most of their former owners would have upgraded.  I started with a pre-owned 2.4 as well.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on June 25, 2013, 23:28
Clock in close to 700 hours on my Ref500M. Initially, I was comparing the sound of the amp with the reviews I have read online. My system has been struggling with extreme high extension and when I change from the S300 to the Ref500m, I gain improvement in high extension but I still find it can be better.

After about 700 hours of run in, I am please to inform that I am getting all the high extension I need, very clean extension with great decay. Bass is punching lower and tighter than before. In terms of imaging, it's much more focus now and system has gain stage depth as well. Imaging take a much more solid feel, I can literally see the double bass playing with body to the strumming. As for vocal, it's just mesmerizing now. Now I know why Sammy comment that the the Ref500m is sweeter. Vocal is so nice and real. I was listening to Chie Ayado and I can practically hear her playing the piano and sing live in front of me. The most important thing is that she is singing with emotions, not just reading the lyrics!

Based on 1 review I read, the improvement will continue till 1000-1500 hours. I will continue to run my amps in. Hopefully I will gain even better improvement as time goes by.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 22, 2013, 00:15
Bel Canto has a new line - BLACK

It comprises of 2 components - a preamp (but not quite) the ASC1 and a monoblock which can accept digital inputs.

http://www.belcantoblack.com/Bel-Canto-Black-MPS1-Powerstream.html

The preamp/controller is also an Ethernet streamer and instead of analog outputs, it has balanced DIGITAL AES mono outputs (or ST fibre)
(http://www.belcantoblack.com/img/asc1-front.jpg)

(http://www.belcantoblack.com/img/asc1-back-panel.jpg)

Quite an interesting design. It's NCore 1200W module but it can also a full digital amp (literally!) with a digital input (from the ASC1) to power amp (http://www.belcantoblack.com/img/mps1-front.jpg)

(http://www.belcantoblack.com/img/mps1-back-panel.jpg)

The monoblock shows an analog XLR input which I guess means it can be used as a traditional analog power amp. I am not sure if there is a matching AES mono input as well (there's a black input in the middle)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on October 22, 2013, 01:03
wah so nice. Audio told me about it. Digital amps has a new meaning.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaconne_partita on October 22, 2013, 03:13
Checked the price quoted in the link: USD50K for the controller + 2 mono block... CFO will definite veto this  ::)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: AndrewC on October 22, 2013, 07:12
Wow, looks interesting!!… Not a lot of detailed technical information available yet though… (Bluetooth LE for its remote! Nice touch :)).
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on October 22, 2013, 12:07
Heard this at RMAF 2013.   I hate to say this but I was not impressed.  John saw that in my facial expression and exclaimed...."You no like Janis Joplin??"...he went and play another classic hi-rez piece.......

Not the right environment to evaluate the new system.....his room was just too crowded and he got too many friends...   :)

(Audio)

(http://audio.sg/pic/belcantoblack-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on October 22, 2013, 16:08
Maybe Thiels will get you smiling?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaozhoi on December 10, 2013, 17:28
Hello. New Bel Canto user here. Just got a CD2 as transport. Hihi :D
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on December 13, 2013, 01:44
Hello. New Bel Canto user here. Just got a CD2 as transport. Hihi :D

http://www.belcantodesign.com/Belcanto_CD3t_Transport.html
not the newer CD3t

been contemplating to get the BC player, but my sacds wasted can only read CD layer.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on December 13, 2013, 06:35
The CD3T is lower end model. It doesn't have the matching jitter rejection circuitry of the CD2
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on December 13, 2013, 06:56
Which is what I have been saying all along....the CD2 cannot be used as a transport because it converts the output to 48, 96 or 192.  It never and cannot output native 44.1.

That is why we have to use the CD3t.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaozhoi on December 13, 2013, 09:39
Which is what I have been saying all along....the CD2 cannot be used as a transport because it converts the output to 48, 96 or 192.  It never and cannot output native 44.1.

That is why we have to use the CD3t.

(Audio)

Actually that is not true. It seems that the newer CD2 with new firmware actually output digital signal as 44.1khz. (That's what my Wyred4Sound DAC displayed)

Because of this I emailed BC to double confirm and here's the reply:
Quote
Chaoz, I could use the serial number to check on what software version you have? It sounds like you have a newish unit with up to date software. All the latest units have permanent 192kHz up sampling internally when using the analog outputs and the native red book CD sampling frequency (44.1) when using any of the digital outputs. This is the best sounding option. Although I can't speak to how the Wyred4Sound DAC handles its digital inputs, I can say that all current Bel Canto DAC's immediately convert a 44.1kHz digital input to 24/192.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on December 13, 2013, 14:50
If this is true, I would like to do something as I always love the CD2 CD mechanism...    :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaozhoi on December 13, 2013, 16:01
If this is true, I would like to do something as I always love the CD2 CD mechanism...    :)

(Audio)

yup.. confirm. My DAC shows 44.1khz when playing CD.
CD-Pro 2?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: DJQ on December 14, 2013, 14:56
So which model cheaper or better as transport?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: pokingpine on December 14, 2013, 18:28
Isn't CD2 a CD player with top loading and supposedly better transport than the CD3t which is basically the only BC transport. I've been using the CD3t and DAC3.5 for quite some time. Is the CD2 better than the CD3t as a transport?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: watchdog on December 14, 2013, 18:56
I read somewhere that some users claim the CD3t is better. No experience with both, just relaying what I read.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on December 14, 2013, 21:09
I have both....I love my CD2 but I noticed I cannot do 44.1 and hence, I got no choice but to buy the CD3t.

Now that someone mentioned the newer CD2 can do 44.1 then I suppose I will ask if it is the firmware or the new CD-2 itself.  I go ask the dealer....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaozhoi on December 14, 2013, 21:25
remember to do a cd3t vs cd2 comparison and let us know the result :D thankie!!
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaozhoi on February 24, 2014, 21:51
Hi, my Bel Canto CD2 came with a china branded MeanWell power supply adaptor. Checked the specs of the CD2 and it rates power draw to be 5W.

I am considering getting the Geek LPS4 by Light Harmonic with the below specs:


Specs of Geek Linear Power Supply

110V/120V or 220V/240V 50/60 Hz AC input.
12V DC, 800mA output (uses the notoriously good power supply technology inside Da Vinci DAC)
5V DC, 500mA output in front panel via USB-A connector (Can be used with Geek Out via split USB cable to reduce power noise from computer.)
47,000uF Reservoir Capacitor (4700uF * 10) with zero switching off noise Schottky diode
30VA High Quality Noise Shielded Transformer
 

Do you guys think it will cause any problem?
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 24, 2014, 21:56
The upgrade power supply for the CD2 is the VBS
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on February 24, 2014, 23:08
Just wondering how is the sound of the CD2 with stock power supply adaptor since the VBS will increase the price of the CD2 by more than 50%.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audiolab on February 24, 2014, 23:09
Bro audio,

Not considering the output frequency, how is the sound of the CD3T vs CD2 as a transport in your setup?

I have both....I love my CD2 but I noticed I cannot do 44.1 and hence, I got no choice but to buy the CD3t.

Now that someone mentioned the newer CD2 can do 44.1 then I suppose I will ask if it is the firmware or the new CD-2 itself.  I go ask the dealer....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Audio on February 25, 2014, 00:13
If you just running the CD2 alone or if you are pairing it to the Bel Canto DAC3.5, then you should be OK.  Buy the CD2, I like the CD2 better than the CD3t.

If you intend to run the CD2 with a DAC and upsample then you better off with the CD3t because in the CD2 the 44KHz sampling from the CD is upsampled and then your DAC will upsample again, you can imagine how double upsampling the signal twice can do to your sound.  Some owner of the new CD2 told us that he got native 44.1KHz from his CD-2, maybe, I cannot confirm.  If this is true, I would stick with the CD2.

Yes, the CD2 should be used with the VBS but if the price is too steep for you, all is not lost.  Bel Canto has a reduced power supply suitable for the CD2, it's called the LNS-1 which is a VBS designed for use with one component while the VBS can handle 3.  It costs a third of the VBS-1.

(http://audio.sg/pic/lns-1.jpg)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: chaozhoi on February 25, 2014, 15:24
If you just running the CD2 alone or if you are pairing it to the Bel Canto DAC3.5, then you should be OK.  Buy the CD2, I like the CD2 better than the CD3t.

If you intend to run the CD2 with a DAC and upsample then you better off with the CD3t because in the CD2 the 44KHz sampling from the CD is upsampled and then your DAC will upsample again, you can imagine how double upsampling the signal twice can do to your sound.  Some owner of the new CD2 told us that he got native 44.1KHz from his CD-2, maybe, I cannot confirm.  If this is true, I would stick with the CD2.

Yes, the CD2 should be used with the VBS but if the price is too steep for you, all is not lost.  Bel Canto has a reduced power supply suitable for the CD2, it's called the LNS-1 which is a VBS designed for use with one component while the VBS can handle 3.  It costs a third of the VBS-1.

(http://audio.sg/pic/lns-1.jpg)

(Audio)

My CD2 outputs native 44.1khz to my Wyred4Sound Dac. Both DAC and CD2 displays 44.1khz. But the weird thing is, native 44.1khz only works with optical cable. I tried using a Coaxial cable the other day but it outputs 48khz minimum. Contacted Bel Canto but they said it should be native for all connections. Gonna take pics and follow-up with them.


Was toying with the idea of getting the Geek LPS4 as power supply. 429usd for 4 outputs comparing to $600+ for LNS1 single output. Personally I am already very satisfied with the CD2 just that the sight of that Mean Well MIC power adaptor irks me :D
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: sje4182 on March 26, 2016, 13:42
Hi All

Sorry to revive this dormant thread but i am thinking of venturing in bel canto. Just need to ask whether the Ref500 is the same as the S500 (stereo power amp)? When i read around it seems to be used interchangeably.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 26, 2016, 14:05
I believe Bel Canto recently revamped their line up.

It used to be:
REF175S stereo
REF500M mono
REF500S stereo
REF1000M mono

The REF500S and REF500M used the same B&O 3rd-Gen ICE module - which IMHO was better than the 2nd gen used in the 1000M. The REF500S and M models also shared the same input buffer which increased the input impedance a fair bit - handy when partnering with tube preamps.

The 500M also included an upgraded power supply board - which the REF500S did not have - due to the space limitation of the same enclosure.

They have since been superseded. Last I checked they only have the REF500S (no M) and the 2 mono block models (500M and 1000M) have been replaced by a new model REF600M - which uses an NCore module IIRC.

Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: sje4182 on March 26, 2016, 15:57
I believe Bel Canto recently revamped their line up.

It used to be:
REF175S stereo
REF500M mono
REF500S stereo
REF1000M mono

The REF500S and REF500M used the same B&O 3rd-Gen ICE module - which IMHO was better than the 2nd gen used in the 1000M. The REF500S and M models also shared the same input buffer which increased the input impedance a fair bit - handy when partnering with tube preamps.

The 500M also included an upgraded power supply board - which the REF500S did not have - due to the space limitation of the same enclosure.

They have since been superseded. Last I checked they only have the REF500S (no M) and the 2 mono block models (500M and 1000M) have been replaced by a new model REF600M - which uses an NCore module IIRC.

Thanks for the info!!
Title: Re: Any Bel Canto owners here?
Post by: malsound on December 07, 2018, 19:05
http://www.youtube.com/v/1RBFaxr_do8&fs=1