XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Audio => Topic started by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 02:17

Title: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 02:17
I think it's time to update these pics. Eh Audio, please post your new pics so I can update

1. Audio

CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2 + S1 sub integrator

Sources:
Denon A1UD via Denon Link4 to Denon AVP-A1HDA. 
Bel Canto CD2
Bel Canto DAC3.5
Bel Canto VBS-1

Bel Canto Ref1000 x 3 power amp for front L/C/R. 
Bel Canto M300 x 2 power amp for surround 

Interconnects
DenonLink4/HDMI from A1UD to A1HDA
AES from CD2 to DAC3.5 - Silversmith
XLR from DAC3.5 to REF1000M
RCA from A1HDA front LR to REF1000M - Silversmith
XLR to C REF1000M/M300 - Silversmith XLR
XLR to S1 - ??
XLR from S1 to SS2 - ??

Speaker cables
Front L/C/R - Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon
Surround

Listening sofa is a red IKEA augmented with Earthquake amp/shaker combo.

Supported with TAOC ASR (latest version of the rack)

(http://audio.sg/pic/myTAOC-6.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee
CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser
Main Stereo Setup Thiel CS3.7 + 2 x Thiel SmartSub SS2 + Thiel S1 Sub Integrator
HT: Thiel MCS1 center + 4xPowerPoint 1.2 + 4xPowerpoint

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/68998c26.jpg)


Analog sources:
Project RPM10.1 evolution with 10cc evolution tonearm, Project Speedbox SE II, Sumiko Blackbird HOMC cart, bundled phono leads
Bel Canto Phono 3

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/c4548d0a.jpg)

Digital Sources
EMM Labs XDS1 SACD/CD Player
Oppo95
Denon DBP-4010 DenonLink4/HDMI to Denon AVR4810

PreAmp:
Audio Research Reference 5SE

(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/44b0ac4c.jpg)

Power Amp
WIP - currently Bel Canto REF1000M

Speaker Cables:
ASI Liveline

Interconnects:
ASI Liveline
Silversmith Silver XLR/RCA

HT:
Denon AVR-4810
Bel Canto REF500M powering Thiel MCS1
Wyred4Sound ICEBox MC 6xASP500 modules for surround duties
Thiel PowerPoint 1.2 for surround, surround back
Thiel PowerPoint for wide/height
JVC RS60 3D THX DILA projector
Optoma HD33 3D DLP Projector

Power:
PurePower APS 1050 x 2
Sound Application RLS-240 x 2
ASI Liveline Powercords
ESP Reference distributors, Reference, MusicordES, MusicordProES power cords

Tweaks
Cardas RCA covers,
Finite Element Pagode Signature 4 tier rack (600mm supports) redwood x 2
Finite Elements Ceraballs
Boston Audio TuneBlocks (with tungsten carbide upgrade)
Boston Audio TuneBlock S
Cold Ray x 2


4. Chewed
CS3.7 + SCS4 (centre) + CS1.6

Bel Canto CD-2,
Bel Canto DAC2.5
Bel Canto REF1000M x 2
IC is Siltech SQ-28,
speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.

Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

Interim setup
(http://i53.tinypic.com/o6bez4.jpg)


5. DIYer Straits
CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki
MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


7. Charcoal
CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets, 

8. Jagdpanzer
Thiel CS2.4
Kimber 8TC

9. Sleepytune
Thiel CS2.4
Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'

Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire

(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9101020.jpg)


10. shsoh
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy2/shsoh/R0012427-1.jpg)

Analogue:
- Nottingham Spacedeck
- Schroeder No.2 FW tonearm
- Lyra Helikon SL cartridge
- EAR 324 phono
- Clearaudio Synchro Motor Controller

Digital:
- Wadia 23 CDP

Amps:
- First Sound Presence Deluxe MkII preamp
- Ayre V1x poweramp
- REL Stampede sub

Accessories:
- Isotek Titan Power Conditioner
- Oyaide MTB-6 R1 Distributor
- Shunyata Taipan Helix Powersnakes (15A/20A)
- Synergistic Research Reference (for CDP)
- Synergistic Research Tesla REL spec subwoofer cable
- Kimber Select KS1030 & KS3035 cables
- Symposium Rollerblocks, Ultra, Super Plus, etc
- Solidsteel Racks
- Taoc & Isoduo Jade footers
- Acoustic System Resonators, Phase Corrector & Diffuser

Next Change:
- Walker Valid Points for Clearaudio Synchro
- Upgrade First Sound preamp to MKIII


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 02:22
This is what one owner wrote in the (similar) AVS thread after about 200 hours and it's what keeping my hopes up.. have only done a mere 40+ hours of running in (most of it below moderate) since I got them (worried about neighbour complaints)...

Though it's for the newer CS3.7s, I figured what he said applies to the 2.4s as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13839343&postcount=331

Quote
High
Now: Delicate and airy, lots of air, cymbal will materialize in the room and linger ever so delicately in air. No shrill, no etch.
Previously: Nice out of the box, beat the 7.2 in delicacy but rolled off too fast. Not airy enough, not open, not delicate enough.

Mid
Now : They are able to render instrument realistically now and put instruments right in the room. As the speaker opens up even more, I expect the realism to get even better.
Previous: Sweet out of the box, matches some big names I have heard, even the 7.2's, unfortunately, not realistic enough at first.

Low
Now : Integrated with the mid and high; tight, accurate, low and rich. Timing now is wonderful. It can get "low" enough to rumble underfoot (we have cement floor) but still accurate.
Previous: Nice out of the box but seemed a tad "laid back" or "slow", just a hair off pace. It also seemed disjoint at first from the rest of the sound, not well integrated.


So far, the mids and highs are pretty much as I remembered in the showroom, but the lows.. were well.. different.. guess the owner hit it right on the head: "slow and off pace".

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 06, 2009, 09:23
hahaha Thiels owners...
Audio got the full range of Thiels ok. center spk, rear spk, Sub also hor. dun play play...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 10:27
As much as I love the SmartSubs, I can't help but wonder if I'll get as good a system by getting a full Audyssey standalone box (one that does 7.1 not just the .1) with a regular SVS.

That said, the SCS4 looks interesting ;) China-sourced components (lower cost), similar coax as the Thiel CS3.7 (according to John Potis) and hand-finished/assembled and QAd in same US factory.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 06, 2009, 10:44


Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)

1. Audio - CS3.7
2. jonlee CS2.4
3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4(centre)
5.
6.



[/quote]
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 06, 2009, 10:50
Saved my pennies for years!! Fell in love with the CS2.3 coax when I first heard it. The CS2.4 is way better.

1. Audio - CS3.7
2. jonlee CS2.4
3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4(centre)
5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
6.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 06, 2009, 11:07
As much as I love the SmartSubs, I can't help but wonder if I'll get as good a system by getting a full Audyssey standalone box (one that does 7.1 not just the .1) with a regular SVS.

That said, the SCS4 looks interesting ;) China-sourced components (lower cost), similar coax as the Thiel CS3.7 (according to John Potis) and hand-finished/assembled and QAd in same US factory.


i think Thiel have a hidden gem in the SCS4, especially if the listening area is small. I plugged it in to replace one of the 1.6, sonically it's as good. Then again my ear is not exactly the sharpest when it comes to hearing.. ;D

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 06, 2009, 12:23
1. Audio - CS3.7 + CS2.4 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4

Audio...I got yours correct or not?   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 06, 2009, 12:28
1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4

Audio...I got yours correct or not?   ;D

nope. now i remember he's got the same MCS1 as surrounds. heheh. the SS2 is what impacted me the most.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hoseki on April 06, 2009, 13:25
1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

Someday I will get CS3.7. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on April 06, 2009, 13:53
7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

I have a question, hope someone here can help. I want to get MCS1 for my center and get one SCS4 (together with my current SCS4) for my sides or back speakers. How is MCS1 compare to SCS4 for center? Is it better?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 13:54
i think Thiel have a hidden gem in the SCS4, especially if the listening area is small. I plugged it in to replace one of the 1.6, sonically it's as good. Then again my ear is not exactly the sharpest when it comes to hearing.. ;D

Yeah was surprised they used such a driver on their entry level unit...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue36/thiel_scs4.htm

Quote
The SCS4 starts with a 6.5-inch metal mid-woofer coaxially mounted with a 1-inch high-output tweeter—a tweeter very similar to that used in the flagship CS3.7. In fact, the mid-woofer combination is the same unit as used in Thiel's PowerPoint speaker.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 06, 2009, 14:29
7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

I have a question, hope someone here can help. I want to get MCS1 for my center and get one SCS4 (together with my current SCS4) for my sides or back speakers. How is MCS1 compare to SCS4 for center? Is it better?

clitang,

the main reason i chose the SCS4 to be center speaker is i simply don't have enough space for the MCS1. ...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 14:54
I think the MCS drivers are similar to the CS2.4.

And there is supposed to be a center speaker matched to CS3.7s in the works (2009 release).

I guess that puts the SCS closer to the CS1.6 in terms of matching.

That said, I remember reading that all Thiel speakers are timbre matched so you should be able to mix and match ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 06, 2009, 17:01
MCS1 and CS2.4 share similar coax units. The MCS1 is bit more dynamic as it uses 2 6.5" midbass/woofers as oppose to the CS2.4 8" mid/woofer.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 02:26
1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

updated
 
 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 02:39
"slow and off pace".

I left the speakers running on a continuous playlist of songs where I encountered the slow and off pace boominess while I was at work, hoping to drive that boominess out of the system. During the day, I logged on remotely to the Squeezebox and slowly upped the volume a little. ;)

Got home around 7 and dialed down the volume so we could have some conversation but didn't notice any improvements. Just kept it running through dinner and watched some TV using it as front speakers.And when wife went for her Bollywood dance lessons, I let rip a couple of Daft Punk tracks hehe

Anyway, a couple of hours ago, I was about to power off the system and turn in for the night.

But as I sat in front of the speakers, in the middle of Buble's Lost, I SWEAR I WASN'T DREAMING THIS, suddenly the "off pace" boominess disappeared.

I think I'd hit just about 50 hours of use. The bass suddenly became more articulate and the lack of boominess suddenly made the details in the mids and highs even more apparent. I can't tell you guys what a relief this was. For a while I was really worried the speakers were too big for the room.

There's still the odd boominess in one or two songs. One was a David Tao track (which I know isn't the best in mastering) and the other one where I noticed it was Toni Braxton's Unbreak My Heart, which always had a heavy bass line anyway. But will continue to monitor

And so for the last couple of hours, I have been sitting transfixed in front of the speakers, marvelling at the new details of the same playlist that had been playing on repeat for the last couple of days, each time my brain was just kept awake trying to process all the new information on a familiar track.

I usually get like this when I upgrade parts of my headfi. But this is the first time I have encountered this without any upgrades :P just letting the speakers finally settle in..

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Charcoal on April 07, 2009, 13:27
guys,

can put up your amp, source, speaker cable, listening area, and the (main) speakers placement too  ?

sharing your experiences how to optimize your Thiel speakers performance (e.g. positioning, pairing with equipments, cables etc) is even better

why ?

I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: FookLai on April 07, 2009, 14:09
I used to own 2.4 and MCS1. IMHO, Thiel goes well with warmer equipment(usually tube), as thiel sound is usually too revealing, if pair it with another neutral sounding equipment then the sound will be a bit too bright. I pair it with VTL TL-2.5 (tube pre with HT bypass) and Bryston 4B-ST, the result was quite satisfying.

Fook Lai
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 07, 2009, 14:14
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.  :)

(Audio)

Fook Lai, I am still eyeing your MCS1, sold already?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 14:18
Based on Charcoal's Request...


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2

2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)

3. DoggieHowser CS2.4

Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.
Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, slight toe in angle towards listener, with about 1 foot away from the back wall.

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).

My setup is quite revealing and I think Fook Lai wouldn't like it :) some would call it bright. But there is a lot of detail and clarity which never fails to impress me :) Once the gear is properly run in, I may try to look for something just slightly warmer but I am not sure if I want to go down the tube level of warmth.

4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)

5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4

6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 07, 2009, 15:02
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival plus.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 15:09
updated with Audio's setup that I missed earlier..


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2

Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)

3. DoggieHowser CS2.4

Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, slight toe in angle towards listener, with about 1 foot away from the back wall.

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).

My setup is quite revealing and I think Fook Lai wouldn't like it  some would call it bright. But there is a lot of detail and clarity which never fails to impress me  Once the gear is properly run in, I may try to look for something just slightly warmer but I am not sure if I want to go down the tube level of warmth.



4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)

listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.



5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4

6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
 





Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 15:18
Fook Lai, I am still eyeing your MCS1, sold already?

Why would you need one more MCS1? :)

For rear?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 07, 2009, 15:19
doggie, i think you also should update the first post :D
it will be much easier for us to follow....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 07, 2009, 15:50
Why would you need one more MCS1? :)

For rear?

yeah hor Why ah? i also curious? 7.1??? :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: FookLai on April 07, 2009, 16:36
Fook Lai, I am still eyeing your MCS1, sold already?

Sold already long time back :)

Fook Lai
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 07, 2009, 17:09
1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2

Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)

3. DoggieHowser CS2.4

Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, slight toe in angle towards listener, with about 1 foot away from the back wall.

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).

My setup is quite revealing and I think Fook Lai wouldn't like it  some would call it bright. But there is a lot of detail and clarity which never fails to impress me  Once the gear is properly run in, I may try to look for something just slightly warmer but I am not sure if I want to go down the tube level of warmth.



4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)

listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.



5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.
Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.
Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.
Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.
Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.

6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)

8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 07, 2009, 17:10
jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)

Simple setup.  For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 07, 2009, 17:23
Can't help but notice that some of you are placing the speakers about a foot from the back wall or side walls, you are not doing any justice (no offence here) to these fine speakers at all , IMO, definitely not for critical listening........... :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 07, 2009, 17:45
Unfortunately, Francis, we can only work within the space we are given........

I am excited that my wife took a fancy with Bedok Courts recently......  :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on April 07, 2009, 17:57
Can't help but notice that some of you are placing the speakers about a foot from the back wall or side walls, you are not doing any justice (no offence here) to these fine speakers at all , IMO, definitely not for critical listening........... :o

Hi Bro

Any idea how to improve my setup is the placement ok? Hope you can enlighten me. Thank you

I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.


(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 18:02
Can't help but notice that some of you are placing the speakers about a foot from the back wall or side walls, you are not doing any justice (no offence here) to these fine speakers at all , IMO, definitely not for critical listening........... :o

That was a concern as well which was why I asked for Sammy's help to push his own speakers against the back and side wall in his showroom to simulate the conditions at my place. Worse cos they were against the corners too :)

Did the sound quality worsen? Yes. IMHO just a little. Not as bad as I had expected. And ironically enough, less boomy than the B&W 601S2s in the same location.

Long term plan? Gotta move out of this country hehe. Wife already agreed to dedicated room.
 


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Darthfunk on April 07, 2009, 18:46
Can't help but notice that some of you are placing the speakers about a foot from the back wall or side walls, you are not doing any justice (no offence here) to these fine speakers at all , IMO, definitely not for critical listening........... :o

Francis you do realise that your hall size is HUGE! :o 
Seriously if my hall can be half the size of yours I dont have to worry about placement! ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 07, 2009, 18:49
Hi Bro

Any idea how to improve my setup is the placement ok? Hope you can enlighten me. Thank you

I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.


You could try removing the carpet (if it is a carpet) that you placed beneath the CS2.4s' plinth.
You can also try placing the 2.4s firing straight forward. Thiels are designed to fire forward.

Try putting the center speaker off the floor and on the rack if possible.

Hope this helps.

Oh, as I was writing this, someone you all know just bought himself a pair of CS2.4s.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on April 07, 2009, 18:55
My 2 pesos;

I second the opinion on pairing them with warmer electronics.

Thiel sound a bit lean.

They also sound better with robust amps. Higher power amps seems to suit them better.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 07, 2009, 21:39
Oh, as I was writing this, someone you all know just bought himself a pair of CS2.4s.  ;D

Ssssshhhhhhh........  :)  straight from the B&W camp......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 07, 2009, 23:01
Bros, if I may suggest, pls go the Thiels site and look at the FAQ section...excerpt

Q. How should I place my speakers for the best performance?

Most speakers sound best if they are placed well away from all walls. Such placement optimizes spatial imaging and depth, and musical timbres are reproduced with the least coloration. The reason for this is that such placement allows the initial sound coming from the speaker to be distinctly separated in time from the secondary sound of wall reflections. If reflections are heard too quickly after the primary sound (fig. 1) your brain tends to interpret them as part of the initial sound, causing the perceived timbre to be altered and the spatial characteristics to be confused

For HT, it's okay but for critical stereo listening, you will definitely lose out.  I realise that some have limited space to work with and therefore have to compromise but shoudn't you consider the importance of placement first before embarking on an expansive pair of Thiels....... ???
(I must say that these are esthetically beautiful floorstanders)

Anyway, if you are happy with them, why not.  To improve, suggest diffusers and sound absorbents to correct some of the limitations inherent in smaller listening area.

My two cents.....

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: domho8 on April 07, 2009, 23:08
Bros, if I may suggest, pls go the Thiels site and look at the FAQ section...excerpt

Q. How should I place my speakers for the best performance?

Most speakers sound best if they are placed well away from all walls. Such placement optimizes spatial imaging and depth, and musical timbres are reproduced with the least coloration. The reason for this is that such placement allows the initial sound coming from the speaker to be distinctly separated in time from the secondary sound of wall reflections. If reflections are heard too quickly after the primary sound (fig. 1) your brain tends to interpret them as part of the initial sound, causing the perceived timbre to be altered and the spatial characteristics to be confused

For HT, it's okay but for critical stereo listening, you will definitely lose out.  I realise that some have limited space to work with and therefore have to compromise but shoudn't you consider the importance of placement first before embarking on an expansive pair of Thiels....... ???
(I must say that these are esthetically beautiful floorstanders)

Anyway, if you are happy with them, why not.  To improve, suggest diffusers and sound absorbents to correct some of the limitations inherent in smaller listening area.

My two cents.....



Francis hooting a Thiel, 2nd setup  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 23:48
Bros, if I may suggest, pls go the Thiels site and look at the FAQ section...excerpt

Q. How should I place my speakers for the best performance?

IMHO in the context of our local forums, the other question (which may be more pertinent) is WHICH speakers would produce the sound signature that you desire in your own living room.

So while the Thiels may not be ideally sited in our rooms here, they are still producing the right quality of music that we bought them for in the first place.

In the same setting, another speaker may be "ideally placed" but it may still not produce the sonic quality that we desire ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 08, 2009, 00:14
Agree with DH. Also one major point to consider about room treatment.. if our rooms are already so cramp, it's a challenge to fit in diffusers and sound absorbers meaningfully.
I look behind my speakers that have less than a foot to the wall. :P Not sure how to solve my own problems.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 08, 2009, 09:39
Before I purchased my Thiels, I was troubled with my room size and many people had advised me strongly not to purchase them.  But ultimately, if don't buy Thiels, then buy what???  Would placing B&Ws at these corners, give me a better sound?  I don't think so. If the Thiels' sonic performance degrades 30% if placed in these corners, then so be it as placing any other speakers in these corners will probably give the same effect.  Like some fellow owners had said, it's is the sound signature we are seeking.  This is how bad my room looks:-

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 10:30
Glad you are enjoying the Thiels even more with this cable change.  Thought I saw a Kimber cable lying around..... :)

Have you got the Marigold Signature Gold for your CDP!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 08, 2009, 10:37
Glad you are enjoying the Thiels even more with this cable change.  Thought I saw a Kimber cable lying around..... :)

Have you got the Marigold Signature Gold for your CDP!

Yes, Kimber cable is for the  surrounds.  Sanjay seems to approve......

Errgh...almost frightened to ask....what's Marigold Signature Gold for your CDP?   I am using Denon Link now and I cannot imagine myself buying that US$499 Denon certified Denon Link cable when a STF CAT 6 priced at SGD$10 did the trick for me......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 10:47

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......

(Audio)

haha. you said it yourself " i try not to tweak on all these small items ". end of the day> they DO make a difference. there is this one more cable change you really need to change. Not Senoko power lines. but change them as they go to your equipment.  :D

dun 1 shot change lah. do it in stages appreciate the change as it improves. isnt that the fun of it. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 10:58
haha. you said it yourself " i try not to tweak on all these small items ". end of the day> they DO make a difference. there is this one more cable change you really need to change. Not Senoko power lines. but change them as they go to your equipment.  :D

dun 1 shot change lah. do it in stages appreciate the change as it improves. isnt that the fun of it. ;D

Hahaha....the ieGo power line......... ;D

The Marigold Signature Gold is a stabilizing disc which you place on top of the CD during play.  Gives better focus and imaging, a worthwhile tweak............ :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 11:07
Figured I'd start one :)

Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)



1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/52yonb.jpg)

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, slight toe in angle towards listener, with about 1 foot away from the back wall.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2dsn39j.jpg)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).

My setup is quite revealing and I think Fook Lai wouldn't like it  some would call it bright. But there is a lot of detail and clarity which never fails to impress me  Once the gear is properly run in, I may try to look for something just slightly warmer but I am not sure if I want to go down the tube level of warmth.


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
 

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 08, 2009, 11:09
Post pic better leh...too many words liao.   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 11:20
eh jon, got a question for you and for all bros who use an combined hifi and AV system with projectors.

How long an HDMI cable do you use?

I remember for an event I was helping out, I tried one 15m run cable from KEC (from their house brand - I am using an 8m version) and my PS3 couldn't sync with the display (a Samsung LCDTV) at 1080p. Lower resolution worked.

I like jon's setup. Very neat and very tidy and easier to get access to the cabling behind :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 08, 2009, 11:40
eh jon, got a question for you and for all bros who use an combined hifi and AV system with projectors.

How long an HDMI cable do you use?

I remember for an event I was helping out, I tried one 15m run cable from KEC (from their house brand - I am using an 8m version) and my PS3 couldn't sync with the display (a Samsung LCDTV) at 1080p. Lower resolution worked.

I like jon's setup. Very neat and very tidy and easier to get access to the cabling behind :)



Panasonic 10-metre HDMI specially bought from Tokyo.  Previously use the 8 Metre version of BetterCables....not as good as the Panasonic.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 08, 2009, 11:48
The Marigold Signature Gold is a stabilizing disc which you place on top of the CD during play.  Gives better focus and imaging, a worthwhile tweak............ :D

OK, where to buy?  And approximate price please.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 08, 2009, 12:04
eh jon, got a question for you and for all bros who use an combined hifi and AV system with projectors.

How long an HDMI cable do you use?

I remember for an event I was helping out, I tried one 15m run cable from KEC (from their house brand - I am using an 8m version) and my PS3 couldn't sync with the display (a Samsung LCDTV) at 1080p. Lower resolution worked.

I like jon's setup. Very neat and very tidy and easier to get access to the cabling behind :)


i'm using KEc's house brand 10M, so far so good, no issue with syncing.

Compare to JonLee's neat setup, mine looks so messy... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 08, 2009, 12:06
eh jon, got a question for you and for all bros who use an combined hifi and AV system with projectors.

How long an HDMI cable do you use?

I remember for an event I was helping out, I tried one 15m run cable from KEC (from their house brand - I am using an 8m version) and my PS3 couldn't sync with the display (a Samsung LCDTV) at 1080p. Lower resolution worked.

I like jon's setup. Very neat and very tidy and easier to get access to the cabling behind :)


I am using this from a MO here.  No problem with 1080p.

- 25ft HDMI cable (24AWG) (Product ID: 2109) x 1 pc
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2109&seq=1&format=2&style=
Price: US $29.51 x 1 = S$ 47.20 + S$10.00. Total: S$57.20 PAID
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 12:20
i'm using KEc's house brand 10M, so far so good, no issue with syncing.

I am using this from a MO here.  No problem with 1080p.

- 25ft HDMI cable (24AWG) (Product ID: 2109) x 1 pc
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2109&seq=1&format=2&style=
Price: US $29.51 x 1 = S$ 47.20 + S$10.00. Total: S$57.20 PAID

Panasonic 10-metre HDMI specially bought from Tokyo.  Previously use the 8 Metre version of BetterCables....not as good as the Panasonic.

Looks like 10m is the absolute longest.

But is it enough to run from HDMI receiver in front to the projector at the back?

My estimates are:
AVR to floor in front - 3 feet (with slack)
floor to front corner - 3 feet
front corner to rear corner 12 feet
rear corner to back wall 4 feet
rear wall to projector 8 feet

30 feet approx...give or take?



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 12:26
DH, are yours 2.4s or the 2.4SEs'!!  I like the outriggers as it enhance the overall look........... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 12:29
I like the outriggers as it enhance the overall look........... :D

Outriggers are available for the CS2.4s as well ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 12:32
OK, where to buy?  And approximate price please.....

(Audio)

hey. tought you dun go for tweaks???  ;D HK lor. when go again? heheh.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 12:35
OK, where to buy?  And approximate price please.....

(Audio)

Sorry for OT.

Think MusicLink is still selling the disc at around S$320.00.  I got mine in Hkg for S$240.00 way back.  You can play around with mine before you decide.......... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hoseki on April 08, 2009, 12:36
I am using my setup both for HiFi & AV thru Ben Canto Pre which allows bypass.  I am using a 15m HDMI wire from Taiwan from AV to Proj. It came with a cateye cert. When I first started I had issue with image at this distance. Turns out my Pioneer DVDP cannot support. Took a risk with Oppo and has been great since then. So bottom line, at 15m be careful with the cable and also the source.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 12:39
hey. tought you dun go for tweaks???  ;D HK lor. when go again? heheh.

When you going? ;)

Can get me one of these for the Wadia?

http://www.monarchyaudio.com/upsampler.htm

The DIP 48/96 upsampler version (not classic).

Apparently got HK distributor

Quote
Hong Kong Distributor:
Dignity Audio
Mai Luen Industrial Bldg
Unit B, 7/F
23-31 Kung Yip Street
Kwai Chung, Kowloon
Hong Kong
 
Tel: 2427 0841
Fax  2480 5915
Email: hitekxmer@biznetvigator.com

If you going, will contact them for availability and pricing ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 13:43
I am using my setup both for HiFi & AV thru Ben Canto Pre which allows bypass.  I am using a 15m HDMI wire from Taiwan from AV to Proj. It came with a cateye cert. When I first started I had issue with image at this distance. Turns out my Pioneer DVDP cannot support. Took a risk with Oppo and has been great since then. So bottom line, at 15m be careful with the cable and also the source.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 13:43
Sorry for OT.

Think MusicLink is still selling the disc at around S$320.00.  I got mine in Hkg for S$240.00 way back.  You can play around with mine before you decide.......... :D

Does it work with top loading CD players?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 08, 2009, 14:05
Does it work with top loading CD players?

you may wish to look at this too...

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/84200

read about it in a mag. Apparently it can be loaded into any player as long as they are not changer or slot-loading.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 08, 2009, 14:19
$320 for a piece of what material??

I think I go and get my Seagate harddisk platter to put on top of the CD....heavy, stable and definitely opaque......

Let me go do my research.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 14:30
Does it work with top loading CD players?

Works best on top loading CDP/Transport with clamps.  Does not work on Tray loading with shallow platform.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 14:33
$320 for a piece of what material??

I think I go and get my Seagate harddisk platter to put on top of the CD....heavy, stable and definitely opaque......

Let me go do my research.....

(Audio)

Hahaha....good stuff don't come cheap.  It's make of graphite I think and many will attest that it's a worthwhile tweak.  I can't play CDs without this mat now....... :D

Like I say, try mine before you take the plunge.......... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 14:41
Works best on top loading CDP/Transport with clamps.  Does not work on Tray loading with shallow platform.

ah so. I thot it was some "ball" or "weight" you put on top of a CD player (like another thread by hifiluv I tink).

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 14:43
As a car nut, I *heart* carbon fibre

:P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 14:49
ah so. I thot it was some "ball" or "weight" you put on top of a CD player (like another thread by hifiluv I tink).



Hahaha...it's only a flat disc or mat, nothing exotic........ :D  Maybe some bros around your area can loan theirs for you to try on or maybe drop by MusicLink........you won't be disappointed............ :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 08, 2009, 15:10
DIY?

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=4845.msg41511

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/cdcorke.html

$320 for a piece of what material??

I think I go and get my Seagate harddisk platter to put on top of the CD....heavy, stable and definitely opaque......

Let me go do my research.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 15:14
Hahaha...it's only a flat disc or mat, nothing exotic........ :D  Maybe some bros around your area can loan theirs for you to try on or maybe drop by MusicLink........you won't be disappointed............ :D

Heh my office is a stone's throw from MusicLink. Picked up my CI Audio PSU from there..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 15:39
Great, let me know when you drop by.  I can join you as my office is about 100 meters alway.  Bro Quest (office neighbour, LOL), if free, can join in as well.............. :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 16:01
$320 for a piece of what material??

I think I go and get my Seagate harddisk platter to put on top of the CD....heavy, stable and definitely opaque......

Let me go do my research.....

(Audio)

haha see. he always cant accept tweaks... like this one.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 16:04
Hahaha....good stuff don't come cheap.  It's make of graphite I think and many will attest that it's a worthwhile tweak.  I can't play CDs without this mat now....... :D

Like I say, try mine before you take the plunge.......... :D

Francis you poisoning everyone with your tweaks. whats next? that antistatic spray? oops  :-X
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 16:23
Francis you poisoning everyone with your tweaks. whats next? that antistatic spray? oops  :-X

Only when it works............ ;D

We should not digress.........this a Thiel Speakers corner......
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 17:07
Only when it works............ ;D

We should not digress.........this a Thiel Speakers corner......

hehe, this "thread" not so draconian one lah. If it is relevant to improving sound on our setups, always game to find out more.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchthewaves on April 08, 2009, 18:36
Just saw the pic of the disc in the link that francis posted.  If I'm not wrong, the underside of the disc feels a bit tacky, so when you place it on the CD, it grips.  But easy to take it off anyway.  Right?

I saw this a couple of years ago -- someone brought in a few pieces for testing.  Claimed to be the same material used in aircrafts.  Unbranded then.  IIRC, was way less than a hundred sing dollars.  Just goes to show the mark-ups on those stuff. :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 20:57
I am usually a bit wary of what I call "snake oil" but was surprised I could quite easily discern a difference before and after.

It doesn't stick on. It is just placed on.

The guys at MusicLink IMHO were pretty upfront about its effect. On an expensive transport with uber vibration minimization and rigid chassis and very good jitter reduction transports, it makes very little difference.

But on the Marantz top loader we tested. It was pretty apparent. Better transients, higher airier clarity and slightly tauter bass. Didn't notice if soundstage was wider, but was definitely able to pick out the position of the singer more clearly.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 08, 2009, 21:03
Just saw the pic of the disc in the link that francis posted.  If I'm not wrong, the underside of the disc feels a bit tacky, so when you place it on the CD, it grips.  But easy to take it off anyway.  Right?

I saw this a couple of years ago -- someone brought in a few pieces for testing.  Claimed to be the same material used in aircrafts.  Unbranded then.  IIRC, was way less than a hundred sing dollars.  Just goes to show the mark-ups on those stuff. :P

Actually it's not tacky at all.  The mat is made of graphite with one side plated with gold particles (we are talking about micron).  It doesn't grip at all and when placed on tray loading CDP, one must be careful that  the tray is deep enough to hold both the CD and the mat together or else you have to put small rubber stoppers at the inner edge of the tray to prevent the mat from flying off when it spins.

There are many clones around using carbon fibre as material.  Are these effective, I don't know........... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 22:16
When my friends and I were car enthusiasts, we were always wary of what we called "snake oil" products.

We knew the basics of getting real performance: a retuned fuel map with slightly leaner AFR, more aggressive ignition timings, better ignition control, larger injectors, larger turbos, port and polish, stroking up the engine, freeing up the air intake, better extractors and a well-designed freer flow exhaust system. All these made sense to us engineers ;)

But all these talks of magnets and cyclones were frankly, just BS.

In my dismissal of all these tweaks, we had also dismissed this (then) little known product called (naffly) the Hot Inazama. A common friend had bought a couple of these from Japan and were so insistent they worked that he made us all give it a go. And we reluctantly agreed.

And boy, were we amazed. All this device did was (from what little Japanese we could garner) provide some form of voltage supply stabilization. But the impact on the car's performance was amazing. The engine revved more smoothly and was more torquey. Years later, another friend of mine would sign on to be the local distributor of the entire product range.

I guess, by now, I should be convinced of how important a good and clean and stable power supply was.

And yet when I first dabbled in hifi, I had the same doubts. The same scepticism :) But then I am an engineer at heart and always game to experiment.

How could a simple power cord make so much difference? It's got to be snake oil, right?

Wrong.

Up till now, I had been using the standard bundled IEC power cords that came with the gear I bought. For those which had US plugs, I had to go cannibalize my old PC power cords as a makeshift solution :)

My first experiment subject was the Iego cords that I got from bro DJQ. First impressions were good. The power cord was nice and thick and the plugs on either end were very professional looking.

I unplugged all the mish mash of IEC cords from my gear and replaced all of them with the Iego cords. Two for power amps, one for the Benchmark DAC1 Pre and one for the Channel Island power supply for the Duet.

Quickly powered up the system. And then... silence.

Weird. I didn't remember the system being this quiet before. I don't mean lack of hiss. The system never had hiss before, but it's just something else... lack of power noise?

Quickly went through some of my usual more familiar tracks and I suspect it was cos I changed all four cables at once.. the difference was pretty apparent. The bass seemed slightly more detailed and there was some improved clarity in the highs. Definitely appreciable.

Audio.. you need to go try it, man! :) I am sure that on a fully run in system, the difference would be even more apparent ;) maybe u shd go for the higher end models to match yr 3.7s ;)

Damn, is there a way to speed up the running in of these speakers :(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DanDon on April 08, 2009, 22:37
Actually it's not tacky at all.  The mat is made of graphite with one side plated with gold particles (we are talking about micron).  It doesn't grip at all and when placed on tray loading CDP, one must be careful that  the tray is deep enough to hold both the CD and the mat together or else you have to put small rubber stoppers at the inner edge of the tray to prevent the mat from flying off when it spins.

There are many clones around using carbon fibre as material.  Are these effective, I don't know........... ;D

There was once my marigo mat spinned out of the tray and went into the player. I had to open up the casing of the player to remove the mat. The mat didn't spin out of the tray since then after you gave me the rubber stoppers.  ;)

Anyway, I had sold off the mat.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 00:15
Audio.. you need to go try it, man! :) I am sure that on a fully run in system, the difference would be even more apparent ;) maybe u shd go for the higher end models to match yr 3.7s ;)

Doggie Howser, please shut up!!   :)  ha ha ha ha haa

WTF, the pressure of it all.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 09, 2009, 00:22
 :-X :-X :-X ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 02:15
Doggie Howser, please shut up!!   :)  ha ha ha ha haa

mai tu liao.

tell u what. I got a spare cable (planning for second CI PSU so I can run both Wadia and Duet at the same time for A:B comparisons ;) )

Can lend u to see if got difference. But since u using monoblocks, may need another one.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 02:17
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2w20mmp.jpg)
(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
 

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 09, 2009, 08:02
err DH.. correct me if I am wrong.. all your equipment is rested on a SVS sub?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 09, 2009, 08:42
err DH.. correct me if I am wrong.. all your equipment is rested on a SVS sub?

yeah. tats definitely a INcorrect method.  :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 09:19
mai tu liao.

tell u what. I got a spare cable (planning for second CI PSU so I can run both Wadia and Duet at the same time for A:B comparisons ;) )

Can lend u to see if got difference. But since u using monoblocks, may need another one.


Mr DJQ had already offered me loan of 5 pieces for my Bel Cantos.  He even got them packed nicely in a box and handed it to me in my office.  I have never consider accepting it because:-

(1) All my wall plugs are the standard UK 3 pin type.  I would need to erect a power strip just for the US sockets.
(2) I dare not take a picture of my equipment behinds....the wiring is too messy.  Cannot imagine how worse it would look with 5 or more thick power cables.
(3)  If good, I would need to add another 3 or more power cords for the Sub, preamp, CD player.....DJQ had his marketing done correctly, you think why he offer the trials?  Read me like a book.....

Can you imagine the floodgate that will open for all the cable tweaks and the snake oil remedies??   OMG!!!

(Audio)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 09, 2009, 09:31
err DH.. correct me if I am wrong.. all your equipment is rested on a SVS sub?
yeah. tats definitely a INcorrect method.  :o

DH....lol by showing that pic....you are opening yourself to more upgrades/tweaks :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 09, 2009, 09:49
LOL ... once you get a nice rack, other then tweaks, maybe TT, tube amps, power re-generator, etc ... hehe

DH....lol by showing that pic....you are opening yourself to more upgrades/tweaks :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 09, 2009, 09:52
When my friends and I were car enthusiasts, we were always wary of what we called "snake oil" products.

We knew the basics of getting real performance: a retuned fuel map with slightly leaner AFR, more aggressive ignition timings, better ignition control, larger injectors, larger turbos, port and polish, stroking up the engine, freeing up the air intake, better extractors and a well-designed freer flow exhaust system. All these made sense to us engineers ;)

............

Audio.. you need to go try it, man! :) I am sure that on a fully run in system, the difference would be even more apparent ;) maybe u shd go for the higher end models to match yr 3.7s ;)

Damn, is there a way to speed up the running in of these speakers :(



DH,

i think to sum it up, the purpose of using "better" grade cables, be it IC, power cord or speaker cable, is to lower the noise floor & bring out the details, so that i can hear what the recording is all about.

That is the reason i chose Thiels instead of other brands, Then again the downside is it will also expose the badly recorded/produced CDs as well... :-[
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Darthfunk on April 09, 2009, 10:01
Mr DJQ had already offered me loan of 5 pieces for my Bel Cantos.  He even got them packed nicely in a box and handed it to me in my office.  I have never consider accepting it because:-

(1) All my wall plugs are the standard UK 3 pin type.  I would need to erect a power strip just for the US sockets.
(2) I dare not take a picture of my equipment behinds....the wiring is too messy.  Cannot imagine how worse it would look with 5 or more thick power cables.
(3)  If good, I would need to add another 3 or more power cords for the Sub, preamp, CD player.....DJQ had his marketing done correctly, you think why he offer the trials?  Read me like a book.....

Can you imagine the floodgate that will open for all the cable tweaks and the snake oil remedies??   OMG!!!

(Audio)



Change all to US plugs bro! Your amps and cdp deserves better power cords  ;
You should also get a new power distributor, an Oyaide should fix in nicely  ;D All this should be within your budget  ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 10:32
err DH.. correct me if I am wrong.. all your equipment is rested on a SVS sub?

yeah. tats definitely a INcorrect method.  :o

I figured there were no moving parts ;) and the SVS is off when I listen to music (pure hifi setup). When I designed my living room, it was purely for home theater so nothing was ever planned for hifi and wiring accordingly.

It's an interim solution when I finally got the components about a week ago. Putting on the floor with the maid mopping SURE DIE very ugly.

DH....lol by showing that pic....you are opening yourself to more upgrades/tweaks :D

hehe.. that was part of the long term plan anyway.. I need a rack. But dunno where to start looking. I quite like jonlee's one. Very discrete.


LOL ... once you get a nice rack, other then tweaks, maybe TT, tube amps, power re-generator, etc ... hehe

yeah, francis already has some suggestions lined up for me :P I think a tube pre-amp might be a good match. But would definitely want to experiment only after I run in.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 10:42
That is the reason i chose Thiels instead of other brands, Then again the downside is it will also expose the badly recorded/produced CDs as well... :-[

I know...

I had thought the Hannah Montana song The Climb was quite nice when I heard it on radio (I can hear francis and DJQ sniggering in the back! OI!!! :P) and I got the original CD two days ago, ripped the album and then geez!! The whole album was sooo badly mastered. All the sound was sooo compressed, hardly any dynamics.

sigh..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 10:48
(1) All my wall plugs are the standard UK 3 pin type.  I would need to erect a power strip just for the US sockets.

Yeah, that was why originally didn't plan on getting the cables so early but since someone offered to sell his "ahem" used but declared new ;) Xindak, I thought I'd try that. Honestly, didn't think there was any difference with the conditioner but I did like that it was universal plug (can plug in UK and US)

(2) I dare not take a picture of my equipment behinds....the wiring is too messy.  Cannot imagine how worse it would look with 5 or more thick power cables.

You know, I didn't factor that originally, and when I started plugging them in, I thought SIAO LIAO.. you saw how cramped my gear is? ;) But surprisingly still got space.


(3)  If good, I would need to add another 3 or more power cords for the Sub, preamp, CD player.....DJQ had his marketing done correctly, you think why he offer the trials?  Read me like a book.....

I didn't change the sub one tho. Mainly cos this was for hifi :P but in your case... I think the difference even more apparent with so many devices upgraded with better power cables!


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 09, 2009, 11:11
I know...

I had thought the Hannah Montana song The Climb was quite nice when I heard it on radio (I can hear francis and DJQ sniggering in the back! OI!!! :P) and I got the original CD two days ago, ripped the album and then geez!! The whole album was sooo badly mastered. All the sound was sooo compressed, hardly any dynamics.

sigh..


well, sanjay's solution is to have 2 set of stereo setp up, one for better recordings, one for the not so good recordings.... :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 11:19
well, sanjay's solution is to have 2 set of stereo setp up, one for better recordings, one for the not so good recordings.... :P

hmmm.. maybe play through the AVR?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 09, 2009, 11:24
hmmm.. maybe play through the AVR?



Play through Bose lagi best...   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 11:27
Play through Bose lagi best...   ;D

Lucky u never mention the other "b" brand hehe.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 09, 2009, 11:40
Oh...to Audio and DH who first time using audiophile US plug power cord, do check the polarity at the IEC end with a test pen to ensure consistancy.  Else phase reverse, u plug in the audiophile US power cord, u will wonder why people pay so much for such a bad sound.

If looking into the IEC end of the power cord, the 3 holes should be in 12 o'clock (earth), 3 o'clock (live), 9 o'clock (neutral).

In summary, UK power cord are connected "crossed", and original US power plug are connected "straight".  However, the local available computer power cord with US plug are actually connected "crossed" to follow local standard.  My audiophile US plug power cords have both crossed and straight connections by default.  I reterminate all mine to "crossed" for ease of swapping.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 11:52
##$@#%&%&(^*()^&%%$#%&**(^*)^*()%^*()^*()^_(%&(#%&%&*((_&_^$$%%&*&()&

I go look at the few Japanese power strips I bought from Akihabara.  These are the Sanwa brand where you twist the connectors to lock the plugs onto the sockets....will post pictures when I get home.

(Audio)

Hey, what the hell am I saying?  I suppose to reject DJQ's offer.................
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 09, 2009, 12:01
Wahahaha YES! lets see base on your picture 5 bel cantos, AVR, DVD, BRP, what esle?  ;D
i think Just get 5 for the Bel cantos good enough.

oh Jonlee, i have check out the polarity of the IeGO plug/iec socket. they follow our local UK 3pin plug position crossed. so its correct. they are US plug, but not from USA.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 12:59
Oh...to Audio and DH who first time using audiophile US plug power cord, do check the polarity at the IEC end with a test pen to ensure consistancy.  Else phase reverse, u plug in the audiophile US power cord, u will wonder why people pay so much for such a bad sound.

If looking into the IEC end of the power cord, the 3 holes should be in 12 o'clock (earth), 3 o'clock (live), 9 o'clock (neutral).

In summary, UK power cord are connected "crossed", and original US power plug are connected "straight".  However, the local available computer power cord with US plug are actually connected "crossed" to follow local standard.  My audiophile US plug power cords have both crossed and straight connections by default.  I reterminate all mine to "crossed" for ease of swapping.



errr a bit blur liao.

If US and UK plugs normally have "reversed' polarity, how does a "universal socket" plug like Xindak work?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 09, 2009, 13:26
errr a bit blur liao.

If US and UK plugs normally have "reversed' polarity, how does a "universal socket" plug like Xindak work?



It doesn't differentiate between the two. You can either stick to all US plugs or UK plugs as long as the sole cable to the wall socket is terminated correctly. Or do what I do, reterminate all my US plug in accordance to the UK config.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 09, 2009, 14:48
oh Jonlee, i have check out the polarity of the IeGO plug/iec socket. they follow our local UK 3pin plug position crossed. so its correct. they are US plug, but not from USA.

The IeGO cable are UK wired, but if Audio/DH use a power distributor/strip, that must also be wired correctly.

Eg : Audio use his bought-in-Japan US plug strip.  If he connect live-to-live, neutral-to-neutral at both the strip and 13A UK plug and connect to his UK wall socket, the live-neutral on the strip will actaully be reversed.  Plug in the UK wired IeGO, the final IEC will also be reversed because the strip is expecting a normal US wiring which will "reverse the reverse". 

I also using a Japan power strip.  I terminated live-to-live at the strip, but live-to-neutral at the 13A UK plug which then goes into a standard HDB wall socket.

I also have another US wall socket, which I again connect live-to-neutral.  In there goes my UK wiring Acrolink 4030 with US plug.

I think DH blur liao....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 14:51
The IeGO cable are UK wired, but if Audio/DH use a power distributor/strip, that must also be wired correctly.

Eg : Audio use his bought-in-Japan US plug strip.  If he connect live-to-live, neutral-to-neutral at both the strip and 13A UK plug and connect to his UK wall socket, the live-neutral on the strip will actaully be reversed.  Plug in the UK wired IeGO, the final IEC will also be reversed because the strip is expecting a normal US wiring which will "reverse the reverse". 

I also using a Japan power strip.  I terminated live-to-live at the strip, but live-to-neutral at the 13A UK plug which then goes into a standard HDB wall socket.

I also have another US wall socket, which I again connect live-to-neutral.  In there goes my UK wiring Acrolink 4030 with US plug.

I think DH blur liao....


whooooossssshhhhh... sound of the subject flying over my head :)

so if I get something like a US designed power distributor for the power amp, I would need to rewire??

siong.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 09, 2009, 14:59


so if I get something like a US designed power distributor for the power amp, I would need to rewire??



Just poke a test pen into the power distritutor output, with earth at 12 o'clock. 

If 3 o'clock lights up, u will need UK wired power cord.  If 9 o'clock lights up, u will need US wired power cord.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 09, 2009, 15:11
You have me worried now.  Incidentally I am using a japan power strip.  Also dunno my pc is US or UK  :(

Just poke a test pen into the power distritutor output, with earth at 12 o'clock. 

If 3 o'clock lights up, u will need UK wired power cord.  If 9 o'clock lights up, u will need US wired power cord.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 15:17
Just poke a test pen into the power distritutor output, with earth at 12 o'clock. 

If 3 o'clock lights up, u will need UK wired power cord.  If 9 o'clock lights up, u will need US wired power cord.

note to self: buy test pen from challenger
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 09, 2009, 15:18
You have me worried now.  Incidentally I am using a japan power strip.  Also dunno my pc is US or UK  :(


Bro, poke the female IEC of ur power cord,  If all lightsup at 3 o'clock, u are safe.  If all light up at 9 o'clock, u just need to reverse one wiring at the plug that your power strip is connected to.

However, I won't be surprised if some light up at 3 and some at 9, then u got a handful to re-terminate liao.   ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 09, 2009, 15:19
note to self: buy test pen from challenger

note to DH...test the test pen when buying.   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 09, 2009, 15:23
Thanks.  One stupid question.  Any risk of electricuting myself with a test pen.  Must I wear Kings industrial boots or Crocs will do.  ;D

Bro, poke the female IEC of ur power cord,  If all lightsup at 3 o'clock, u are safe.  If all light up at 9 o'clock, u just need to reverse one wiring at the plug that your power strip is connected to.

However, I won't be surprised if some light up at 3 and some at 9, then u got a handful to re-terminate liao.   ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 15:25
Akyah, as long as I disconnect the power connector at the component end, take the live connector and point it toward my face when the earth terminal up.....using HDB UK socket convention, 3 o'clock must be live and 9 o'clock must be neutral.


ROGER.


(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 09, 2009, 15:31
Thanks.  One stupid question.  Any risk of electricuting myself with a test pen.  Must I wear Kings industrial boots or Crocs will do.  ;D


u wan to poke the wall socket?  :o :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 15:36
u wan to poke the wall socket?  :o :o

No choice, to test the socket, have to poke poke.  Nowaday very safe...all homes got ELCB protection, kanan live also cannot die.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 09, 2009, 15:40
No choice, to test the socket, have to poke poke.  Nowaday very safe...all homes got ELCB protection, kanan live also cannot die.

(Audio)

lol.... ok good luck then... :)
even if got anything we still have medisave...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 15:56
lol.... ok good luck then... :)
even if got anything we still have medisave...

Plus MC to stay at home to listen to your Thiels.....

(Audio)

Shhsss...don't let the wives know.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 16:07
Plus MC to stay at home to listen to your Thiels.....

(Audio)

Shhsss...don't let the wives know.....

Hehe wife is overseas. And cos my speakers are still running in.. I am at Sammy's :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 16:16
Hehe wife is overseas. And cos my speakers are still running in.. I am at Sammy's :)


What are you doing there at office hours?  Collecting your Alpha Cables?  Maybe I should go and collect my centre channel cable tonight.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 16:24

What are you doing there at office hours?  Collecting your Alpha Cables?  Maybe I should go and collect my centre channel cable tonight.....

(Audio)

Boss self declare half day. We follow example :)

Come here lah!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 09, 2009, 16:27
Boss self declare half day. We follow example :)

Come here lah!

If you stay there till 6pm, we should have the opportunity to meet up.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 16:52
Ok. Will be here. :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 09, 2009, 19:22
Haiya, did I miss anything? Hadda bring my liddle Poop machine for his 10 in 1 jab. Fatherhood. *sigh*
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2009, 20:11
Haiya, did I miss anything? Hadda bring my liddle Poop machine for his 10 in 1 jab. Fatherhood. *sigh*

I had never met Audio prior to this and it was good to meet up, though a lot of it was swapping old war stories from our old company ;)

Anyway, I bet the liddle poop machine has some powerful audio system to wake up the neighbours as well hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 09, 2009, 23:12
The IeGO cable are UK wired, but if Audio/DH use a power distributor/strip, that must also be wired correctly.

Eg : Audio use his bought-in-Japan US plug strip.  If he connect live-to-live, neutral-to-neutral at both the strip and 13A UK plug and connect to his UK wall socket, the live-neutral on the strip will actaully be reversed.  Plug in the UK wired IeGO, the final IEC will also be reversed because the strip is expecting a normal US wiring which will "reverse the reverse". 

I also using a Japan power strip.  I terminated live-to-live at the strip, but live-to-neutral at the 13A UK plug which then goes into a standard HDB wall socket.

I also have another US wall socket, which I again connect live-to-neutral.  In there goes my UK wiring Acrolink 4030 with US plug.

I think DH blur liao....

oic... sorry i didnt realise that. anyway my power filters from HK. i also changed the IEC R301 sockets. so already double checked correct.

DH, i remembered the Xindak has got a polarity switch. you can use it to swap the live/neutral. no need rewire. use your test pen verify.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 10, 2009, 11:34
I had never met Audio prior to this and it was good to meet up, though a lot of it was swapping old war stories from our old company ;)

Yah, it's been a pleasure to have finally met up with you.  I am certainly glad that you waited for me and thanks for the coffee. That Crystal Gayle CD wasn't so exciting after all....   :)

(Audio)


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 10, 2009, 12:46
Yah, it's been a pleasure to have finally met up with you.  I am certainly glad that you waited for me and thanks for the coffee. That Crystal Gayle CD wasn't so exciting after all....   :)

(Audio)


hehe I am now watching the Jacky Cheung Live BluRay and I think I am getting your POV. The scale of the music seems a huge notch up from my last setup.

:P

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 10, 2009, 14:50
Hmmm.. I used Jag's SVS Eq CD in pure direct stereo mode to see the frequency response.

Pretty flat along the way (80dB) except for a boost from 36-55Hz (90-100dB) :(

I know that in my room, my SVS sub also has a boost around 50Hz. So it looks as if Thiel's full range response is also suffering the same problem and it is this reason for the boominess I am experiencing.

Title: Room Treatment or DEQ?
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 11, 2009, 15:48
Pretty flat along the way (80dB) except for a boost from 36-55Hz (90-100dB) :(

I know that in my room, my SVS sub also has a boost around 50Hz. So it looks as if Thiel's full range response is also suffering the same problem and it is this reason for the boominess I am experiencing.

Have hit over 100 hours on the running in clock now. Overall the sound is much much better than before. The original boominess and off-pace bass is gone and the bass is fairly tight. If I had to compare it with the showroom set, I'd say it is abt 70% ish to my less than golden ears, bearing in mind the showroom gear is also much more elaborately set up.

The main issue now is the the 50Hz bass boost. It doesn't seem to be as apparent in most of the tracks I have listened including the new XRCD2 mastering/pressing of Eagles' Hell Freezes Over. But on one or two of my collection, they just hit the right resonance spot.

I guess the more traditional way to treat this boost is to use bass traps but most of the ones I have seen are pretty massive and despite making it home decor friendly, they are still quite obstrusive and fails WAF (in my particular case).

So I got around to thinking about the old Behringer DEQ2496 which I am now using to control the SVS subwoofer. but the DEQ is actually designed for normal stereo operation and not optimized for subwoofer operation (only goes down to 20Hz whereas the SVS goes lower than this).

Has anyone else considered using a DEQ to tame the room acoustics instead of using acoustic treatment? I know that the DEQ only works with one sweet spot, and would not be optimized for everywhere else around the room, but I am planning to listen from the sweet spot anyway.

I know this will probably run counter to conventional hifi audiophiles thinking :)

But just curious...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 11, 2009, 15:54
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/vn08xk.jpg)
(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
 


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 12, 2009, 14:20
Hi Bro,

Finally bot a test pen.  3 pc have 9 o'clock lighted up and one 3 o'clock lighted up.   >:(

What should I do now?  ta

Bro, poke the female IEC of ur power cord,  If all lightsup at 3 o'clock, u are safe.  If all light up at 9 o'clock, u just need to reverse one wiring at the plug that your power strip is connected to.

However, I won't be surprised if some light up at 3 and some at 9, then u got a handful to re-terminate liao.   ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 12, 2009, 15:39
Bro jayou...use the test pen to probe ur japan power strip, with earth at 12 o'clock.  My guess 9 o'clock will light up.  Correct?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 12, 2009, 15:57
Alamak ... japan power strip has 3 o'clock lighted up

Bro jayou...use the test pen to probe ur japan power strip, with earth at 12 o'clock.  My guess 9 o'clock will light up.  Correct?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 12, 2009, 16:30
One less problem.  Ur japan power strip has been wired to local UK standard.  Thus u only need to ensure all ur US plugs power cord are also wired up in the loca UK standard.

Of ur existing power cords, the 3 with 9 o'clock lighted up are wired in US standard.  U need to swap at one end the live-neutral to get them to UK standard.

The other power cord which lighted up at 3 o'clock is wired in UK standard.  No need to touch that.

From now onwards, always get all power cords wired up in UK standard. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 12, 2009, 17:03
Q: with all the power cords and power strip differences, is it safe to assume that on the component side, whether it is a UK or US device, the polarity is NEVER reversed?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 12, 2009, 17:11
IEC standard 3 o'clock is always live.  If component follow IEC, then it will always be correct.

If want to be sure, will need to open up conponent to check where the incoming fuse is (should be connected to live).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 12, 2009, 18:34
Thanks bro.  So if I swap the live-neutral ends, do I do it at the IEC or pwr connector?  Need any shouldering skills?  :(

Q:  Why do they sell US standard US pc in sing?  Actually I got one set from LHS.  Why are they terminating US standard?  hmmm ...

Of ur existing power cords, the 3 with 9 o'clock lighted up are wired in US standard.  U need to swap at one end the live-neutral to get them to UK standard.
The other power cord which lighted up at 3 o'clock is wired in UK standard.  No need to touch that.
From now onwards, always get all power cords wired up in UK standard. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 12, 2009, 23:20
IEC or plug end both fine, but I will suggest u try plug end first.  That end should be easier to swap.

Actually, when using US plug, if following the label, it will definitely end up reverse to local standard.  US plug is expected to be used together with US socket, which is reversed compared to UK socket.  2 reverse make one positive.  Do also note that most off-the-shelf factory terminated US plug power cords are terminated in the US standard.

Actually, I'm quite puzzled ur japan power strip is showing live at 3 o'clock.  Someone had intentionally or accidentally reverse the polarity.

Another option for u is to switch the live-neutral of your power strip, and use all US plug power cords in the original US wiring.  Just curious, u have one power cord which is terminated in UK style.  Which power cord is that?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 12, 2009, 23:54
Hi bro,
Now everything makes sense to me liaoo.  I just remembered I got the japan power strip and the UK style pc from the same guy second hand.  He must have delibrate diy it the be the same.

I think I will try to reverse them as it is more convenient than to do 3 pc.  Thanks for the advise again.

IEC or plug end both fine, but I will suggest u try plug end first.  That end should be easier to swap.

Actually, when using US plug, if following the label, it will definitely end up reverse to local standard.  US plug is expected to be used together with US socket, which is reversed compared to UK socket.  2 reverse make one positive.  Do also note that most factory terminated US plug are terminated is the US standard.

Actually, I'm quite puzzled ur japan power strip is showing live at 3 o'clock.  Someone had intentionally or accidentally reverse the polarity.

Another option for u is to switch the live-neutral of your power strip, and use all US plug power cords in the original US wiring.  Just curious, u have one power cord which is terminated in UK style.  Which power cord is that?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Charcoal on April 13, 2009, 11:11
guys,

can put up your amp, source, speaker cable, listening area, and the (main) speakers placement too  ?

sharing your experiences how to optimize your Thiel speakers performance (e.g. positioning, pairing with equipments, cables etc) is even better

why ?

I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets,

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 13:13
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/vn08xk.jpg)
(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets, 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 13, 2009, 13:20


(http://i44.tinypic.com/vn08xk.jpg)
(

Aha! Sanity prevailed. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 14:28
*facepalm*

(self inflicted) ;)

wonder how long it would take for missus to notice when she gets back from her tour

hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 13, 2009, 14:40
DH, are you using the Alpha Cables?

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 14:52
DH, are you using the Alpha Cables?

(Audio)

Using QED Revelations. Seems a good match. Don't dare to try the Synergistic stuff. I have read the reviews from Enjoy The Music (think his listening styles very similar to mine)... and he loves them so that's bad news to me ;)

Here let me help poison you...
http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/synergistic_research_tesla_apex.htm

paiseh.. link wrongly :)

Prices: Apex interconnects, $3600 USD per meter pair; Precision Reference interconnects, $2600 per meter pair, Apex speaker cables, $6500 per eight-foot pair.

This one cheaper than the other one I sent earlier.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 13, 2009, 15:03
How to poison me??   At US$7,500 per metre pair; US$15,000 per eight foot pair, I will not pay for any cables than cost more than the equipment....period.

(Audio)

Our friend has walk up to my office and reserved 5 pieces of the power cords for me in his next shipment......sigh!!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 15:50
How to poison me??   At US$7,500 per metre pair; US$15,000 per eight foot pair, I will not pay for any cables than cost more than the equipment....period.

(Audio)

Our friend has walk up to my office and reserved 5 pieces of the power cords for me in his next shipment......sigh!!!

Paiseh I posted wrong link. This one is "mid" tier model from Synergistic.

Cheaper by almost half ;)

 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 19:17
(reposted from the Power Conditioner thread...)

At the risk of scuppering my WTS ad later, let me first say that the Xindak just does not work for my setup at all.

When I first plugged in the Xindak, I was still running in my gear so didn't notice much of a difference in the SQ, except that the vocals seemed a bit more recessed.

Today, francis SMSd me to tell me his friend got the G&W in and asked me to test it out.

I got back and happily plugged out the iego plugs from the Xindak and transferred them to the G&W. The G&W is 2 plugs down on the Xindak but overall is slimmer and easier to hide behind the rack. Just took note to use the "unfiltered" plugs for the power amp as recommended by francis.

I had switched back to Bon Jovi's Never Say Goodbye just before swapping the conditioners over. And after I plugged everything in... restarted Mr Bon Jovi and his band... and whoosh. Amazed how much more oomph there was in the bassline. My Thiels! I hast wronged thee! :P

Jon is still more reticent than with B&Ws, but he's definitely more in your face with the G&W.

Scary how so much can go wrong when you don't match your gear properly...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 19:49
Holy cow! Just listened to the song properly (was in concall earlier). The initial transients of the drum hits are much more apparent and more obvious. And I swear I never heard that electric guitar on the Thiels earlier.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 13, 2009, 21:01
DH, have u used the test pen to verify the xindak and G&W polarity?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 21:11
DH, have u used the test pen to verify the xindak and G&W polarity?

Nope. I just let it in default position (position 1) and did the polarity check.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 14, 2009, 00:06
Aha! Sanity prevailed. ;D

and the svs is even bigger than then rack!   :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 14, 2009, 01:57
Done more listening tonight.

(http://audio.sg/pic/jtsacd.jpg)
Track 7 "Handy Man" is my favourite.  This, IMHO, gives the best and most natural 5-channel surround sound.  Awesome!
 
(http://audio.sg/pic/loveisc60.jpg)
Played this track 5 many times tonight.  Track 5 is my favourite.  For those who listen to Cantonese songs, you MUST get this.

(Audio)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 14, 2009, 16:12
(reposted from the Power Conditioner thread...)

At the risk of scuppering my WTS ad later, let me first say that the Xindak just does not work for my setup at all.

When I first plugged in the Xindak, I was still running in my gear so didn't notice much of a difference in the SQ, except that the vocals seemed a bit more recessed.

Today, francis SMSd me to tell me his friend got the G&W in and asked me to test it out.

I got back and happily plugged out the iego plugs from the Xindak and transferred them to the G&W. The G&W is 2 plugs down on the Xindak but overall is slimmer and easier to hide behind the rack. Just took note to use the "unfiltered" plugs for the power amp as recommended by francis.

I had switched back to Bon Jovi's Never Say Goodbye just before swapping the conditioners over. And after I plugged everything in... restarted Mr Bon Jovi and his band... and whoosh. Amazed how much more oomph there was in the bassline. My Thiels! I hast wronged thee! :P

Jon is still more reticent than with B&Ws, but he's definitely more in your face with the G&W.

Scary how so much can go wrong when you don't match your gear properly...



yo DH, i got 1pc 24k gold socket left. you wanna mod your G&W? after all its main bottleneck before all power is transferred to your equipment.  ;)
 IeGO R301 24k Gold plated pure copper pins
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/soc2.jpg)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 14, 2009, 21:47
Jialat. Don't really want to dig behind the rack again unless I positively have to :P

Should have done it before I swapped the Xindak out!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 14, 2009, 22:02
okie dokie. oh ya, i am getting CS2.4 pretty soon. heheh. going to clear out my computer room just for Stereo listening. anyone knows where i can get sound diffusers and bass traps? also especially the 4 corners of the ceiling.? currently using 4 ikea small square pillows.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 14, 2009, 22:42
The missus coming back tomorrow so gonna be hard to move too much gear around :D

i am getting CS2.4 pretty soon. heheh. going to clear out my computer room just for Stereo listening. anyone knows where i can get sound diffusers and bass traps? also especially the 4 corners of the ceiling.? currently using 4 ikea small square pillows.

WHOA! WELCOME TO THE CLUB! ;)

It's gonna be sian to run in, but really they start singing after 100+ hours! Have clocked about 200 hours now!

ps POST PICS ;)



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 14, 2009, 23:26
okie dokie. oh ya, i am getting CS2.4 pretty soon. heheh. going to clear out my computer room just for Stereo listening. anyone knows where i can get sound diffusers and bass traps? also especially the 4 corners of the ceiling.? currently using 4 ikea small square pillows.

PM Joamonte on room treatment.  New CS2.4 or 2nd hand!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 15, 2009, 02:00
PM Joamonte on room treatment.  New CS2.4 or 2nd hand!!

heheh a well 2yr old run-in unit. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 15, 2009, 10:18
heheh a well 2yr old run-in unit. ;D

Still got 8 yrs warranty ;) great value!

And save you on the running in.

I am trying to find very very WAF ways to tame the 50Hz boost. Any suggestions? Would some cushions in the corner be enough?

ps francis, I have seen joamante's pics of his setup. I think if I do that, sure die very ugly hehe

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 15, 2009, 12:12
heheh a well 2yr old run-in unit. ;D
where u found such a good lubang :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 15, 2009, 12:18
Still got 8 yrs warranty ;) great value!

And save you on the running in.

I am trying to find very very WAF ways to tame the 50Hz boost. Any suggestions? Would some cushions in the corner be enough?

ps francis, I have seen joamante's pics of his setup. I think if I do that, sure die very ugly hehe



DH, the 50Hz boost can be easily solved by moving ur chair.  Play a 50Hz test tone and move around until u hear the 50Hz volume reduced.

Else...u need a 50Hz bass trap.   ;)

This is how my 2.4 sounds like in my room...tks to bro Joamonte's measurement:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/room.jpg)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 15, 2009, 12:30
http://www.realtraps.com/p_planter.htm

(http://www.realtraps.com/planter1.jpg)

But dont understand how to read the charts. Don't look like big difference leh

(http://www.realtraps.com/planter2.gif)

(http://www.realtraps.com/planter.gif)

Moving sofa a bit difficult. It means I would be significantly less than 8 feet away from speakers liao. It is against back walls.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on April 15, 2009, 13:41
If you look at the waterfall chart, the roll off is better at around the 40Hz range.

http://www.realtraps.com/p_planter.htm

(http://www.realtraps.com/planter1.jpg)

But dont understand how to read the charts. Don't look like big difference leh

(http://www.realtraps.com/planter2.gif)

(http://www.realtraps.com/planter.gif)

Moving sofa a bit difficult. It means I would be significantly less than 8 feet away from speakers liao. It is against back walls.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Kopi on April 16, 2009, 19:39
Any bros out there tried the following amps :

1. Manley Neo-classical 500 Monoblocks

or

2. Pass Labs x350.5?

Looking to upgrade my amps and was told  these 2 are ideal partners with Thiel Speakers.
Scouting for power and finesse to drive my 4ohm speakers.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: landis on April 17, 2009, 02:18
2. Pass Labs x350.5?

Looking to upgrade my amps and was told  these 2 are ideal partners with Thiel Speakers.
Scouting for power and finesse to drive my 4ohm speakers.

i have had the pleasure of briefly having the x150.5 in my possessions. the martin logan ascent sounded beautiful through it. the fourplay elixir album that i love had transparency, a wide sound stage and good dynamics. i thought the bass unit could be more coherent. but looking back these are the characteristics of an electrostatic speaker (eg martin logan). i was using the chord red standard cd player as source and if memory serves me right, the mit oracle speaker cables.

the parachutes album from coldplay sounded awful though ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 20, 2009, 22:20
You know, in another thread, someone made a remark that us Thiel speaker owners worship fans :)

The funny thing is (and maybe I am speaking as an engineer by training), I didn't really consider how the Thiels looked when I first fell in love with the sound.

Right now in the living room, I am amazed at how invisible they are :P All you are left with is an amazingly wide and deep soundstage that you forget it's all coming out of JUST two speakers.

Listening to Les Miserable soundtrack and the Slumdog Millionaire soundtrack now and I am getting goosebumps

In Les Miserable, I just close my eyes and imagine I am watching the musical itself.. the placement of the instruments and singers especially in the group ensembles is just incredible. I got an old Les Mis DVD (some anniversary collection which had the best singers to reprise their roles) and even so, this is like listening to the songs for the first time at home.

And in Latika's Theme, Suzanne's haunting voice wafts slowly from the right towards the center .. it really adds an ethereal quality to her voice.

Sweet.

If there are any complaints, it is that
a. the speakers need more room on the sides. My right side opens up to the living room and I swear it is not my imagination that the soundstage extends a lot further right than it does to the left (where it is abt 1+ feet away from the full length windows).

b. my setup might benefit with a tad more warmth. I think the Bel Cantos do help a little, but the Benchmark is perhaps a bit too clinical. Maybe francis is right and I need some tube in the equation (pre-amp).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 20, 2009, 22:30
b. my setup might benefit with a tad more warmth. I think the Bel Cantos do help a little, but the Benchmark is perhaps a bit too clinical. Maybe francis is right and I need some tube in the equation (pre-amp).
I thought you mentioned you liked a detailed and neutral sound in some thread. :)

Are you really looking for warmth or just wanting to make your sound smoother and more balanced?
For instance, most people tend to feel systems are bright just because the highs are a little overwhelming vs the mids, or are a little too dynamic.
Those can be tweaked by speaker cables and power cords.
I've not heard anyone's Thiels in a home setup before but I felt the showroom made Thiels sound pretty harsh, and could do with some refinement along this way.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 20, 2009, 22:59

b. my setup might benefit with a tad more warmth. I think the Bel Cantos do help a little, but the Benchmark is perhaps a bit too clinical. Maybe francis is right and I need some tube in the equation (pre-amp).


FunkyJazz has taken my Mingda Pre to try out on his SS Audiolab.  You can have it too after he finished with it............ :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2009, 08:05
I am trying to replicate my headfi setup so in comparison, I'd say the vocals are a bit warmer in the headfi gear vs the Thiels.

I think both are equally clear and detailed. :) which I like but the slight warmth makes the vocals more involving. I just don't want the warmth to overwhelm the other instruments.

francis :) thanks.. can't wait to try them out.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 21, 2009, 09:17
ok i got my Thiels last night.  ;D hehe. damn i am overwhelmed! i need some time to adjust on the much much higher level of improvement over my entry level bookshelfs.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2009, 09:17
I am trying to replicate my headfi setup so in comparison, I'd say the vocals are a bit warmer in the headfi gear vs the Thiels.

I think both are equally clear and detailed. :) which I like but the slight warmth makes the vocals more involving. I just don't want the warmth to overwhelm the other instruments.


Audyssey is your friend.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 21, 2009, 09:22
Audio, I thought u anti-audyssey?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2009, 09:40
ok i got my Thiels last night.  ;D hehe. damn i am overwhelmed! i need some time to adjust on the much much higher level of improvement over my entry level bookshelfs.

Enjoy the music ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2009, 09:40
Audyssey is your friend.....

(Audio)

I don't use Audyssey in hifi mode :) bypasses the AVR completely
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2009, 10:21
I don't use Audyssey in hifi mode :) bypasses the AVR completely


And if you use it, you will get the "warmth" you want.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2009, 10:29
Audio, I thought u anti-audyssey?

Yes, on Kelly Chan's "Love Fighter" Concert Blu-Ray, you should play it without Audyssey for the impact and the "liveness" of her vocal. Just lose it if you switch on Audyssey.

But I have since got used to listening with Audyssey , like John Taylor JT SACD.  It brings back a significant amount of warmth to the vocal.  Depeche Mode SACD sounds thin on SACD and can be corrected with Audyssey.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 21, 2009, 11:17
Yes, on Kelly Chan's "Love Fighter" Concert Blu-Ray, you should play it without Audyssey for the impact and the "liveness" of her vocal. Just lose it if you switch on Audyssey.

But I have since got used to listening with Audyssey , like John Taylor JT SACD.  It brings back a significant amount of warmth to the vocal.  Depeche Mode SACD sounds thin on SACD and can be corrected with Audyssey.

(Audio)

Audyssey did that by "reducing the high"? 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2009, 11:25
Audyssey did that by "reducing the high"? 

One thing I learned about Audyssey is that it is not a "tone control".  Seems to me that you can still get all the highs but the frequency response just get more flat.   It reinforces what your room takes out and reduces what your room emphasizes.

And it does all these while maintain fidelity, not bad really.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2009, 13:00
Instead of Audyssey, would you use one of these to do AutoEQ? Just for hifi :P

(http://www.madmanaudio.com/images/DEQ2496.jpg)

(I asked this before a while back when I discovered the 50Hz boost)

I believe it has AutoEQ (for normal speakers but not optimized for sub EQ)

Balanced inputs and outputs. Even has a built in DAC ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2009, 13:13
Instead of Odyssey, would you use one of these to do AutoEQ? Just for hifi :P

(http://www.thehomecinemacentre.co.uk/furniture/AZ_dimentions_430.jpg)

(I asked this before a while back when I discovered the 50Hz boost)

I believe it has AutoEQ (for normal speakers but not optimized for sub EQ)

Balanced inputs and outputs. Even has a built in DAC ;)



Sorry, I don't have any idea what this is....opportunity to spend money I suppose.....

You already got Audyssey....just set up up and see if it is good for you without having to spend any money.....

Just like the cute Japanese slimming ad...

MUCH EFFORT.................................Little effort (Audyssey)


(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2009, 13:50
You quoted too fast :P

Changed the pic liao.

I have a DEQ which I am using to supplement AVR's Audyssey.

But I guess can always be redirected to the stereo setup. I have two separate setups for AVR and hifi now but liked using the hifi preamp/DAC
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 21, 2009, 16:06

(http://www.madmanaudio.com/images/DEQ2496.jpg)


When a simple change like a Lego power cord could change the sound of your system, I cannot imagine how much change this EQ box would do after having the audio signals flowing thru all the circuitry, op-amp and capacitors.  tsk tsk.........

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 21, 2009, 16:14
I figured it's one way to correct the room problems without extensive treatments.

I recall there's a DAC pre-amp called DEQX which does the same thing.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 21, 2009, 17:51
When a simple change like a Lego power cord could change the sound of your system, I cannot imagine how much change this EQ box would do after having the audio signals flowing thru all the circuitry, op-amp and capacitors.  tsk tsk.........

(Audio)

thanks Audio. heheh. and ermm.. its "iego" pronounced i-e-go , not the Lego toy bricks ok.  ::)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 21, 2009, 23:38
ok here it is. i feel something is lacking using the Cyrus setup.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/thiel.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on April 22, 2009, 00:52
If I may hazard a guess, the mid to highs sound a bit thin, while bass doesn't quite have the punch you expected ?

The 2.4 is not exactly the easiest speaker to drive and I'm not sure how your Cyrus handles difficult loads. Anyway, look forward to your comments as to what you feel is lacking.

ok here it is. i feel something is lacking using the Cyrus setup.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/thiel.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 08:35
the thiels are 4ohms drivers, so the cyrus 6vs2 at most outputs 50W at 4ohms really lacking in power.   :P
as compared to 40W at 8ohms. (normally it should be double the power when we half the impedance?)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 08:38
the thiels are 4ohms drivers, so the cyrus 6vs2 at most outputs 50W at 4ohms really lacking in power.   :P
as compared to 40W at 8ohms. (normally it should be double the power when we half the impedance?)

Did you say 50W?   OMG!

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 09:06
ok here it is. i feel something is lacking using the Cyrus setup.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/thiel.jpg)

My 2.4s are now about 200+ hours in. The bass is taut and extended to much lower frequencies. But it isn't as boomy or as abundant as even my old 601S2s. It does take some getting used to.

Kinda like a Re-EQd SVS sub. It's not as loud but it goes lower and deeper.

But I can now appreciate the low frequency detail that I wasn't able to hear before.

But when the frequencies are there, they are reproduced. I recently played a few tracks that seemed to demonstrate the heavy bass on the Thiels, on my UE11 headfi gig. The UE11 also has much lower bass extensions (compared to most IEMs) and the same emphasis is also there.

Not sure if these are the same symptoms you are observing.

When I met Audio a couple of weeks back, we talked about Guitar Heroes/Rock Band ;)

Recently came to a very interesting finding...

When I was using my old speakers, the bass was LOUDER, but I found it hard to get the drum section right when playing games like those.

With my new speakers, the precision of the bass/drum tracks made it much much easier ;P

(Audio, you bought already?) I borrowed a set from a friend to test test. Wife didnt like the cables and the mess in the living room haha
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 22, 2009, 11:09
JQ, change the speakers spikes to the new outriggers......... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 11:25
JQ, change the speakers spikes to the new outriggers......... :D

Duh. how much impact will that be?  i got these little spike pads. not sure if they are causing and adverse difference. will take them out tonight.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 11:26
When I met Audio a couple of weeks back, we talked about Guitar Heroes/Rock Band ;)

Recently came to a very interesting finding...

When I was using my old speakers, the bass was LOUDER, but I found it hard to get the drum section right when playing games like those.

With my new speakers, the precision of the bass/drum tracks made it much much easier ;P

(Audio, you bought already?) I borrowed a set from a friend to test test. Wife didnt like the cables and the mess in the living room haha

Sorry, no drum for me.  I have moved all my PCs to the living room and it looks a mess already.  If I have a Rockband drum set in the living room as well, it would be awful.

Last night I happened to play some of my LP45 CDs.  My impression of LP45 CDs till last night is that they are simply "rip-off" as I cannot preceive any sonic improvement.  Tsk tsk.  How wrong I was.  Campared Sally Yeh and Sam Hui LP45 to the SACD of the same artists and my, what a diff.

Each vocal and instruments on the LP45 can be singled out precisely and their locations are very well defined.  The sound on the SACD is like one mixed envelope; the clarity is there but the sound of each instrument and vocal seems to be "joined",  less pleasing.......

Yes, the bass on Thiels are quite different from the other speakers.  Formerly, I just called the low frequency "Bass".  With Thiels, I am beginning to discover tonal qualities associated with this bass.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 11:29
Duh. how much impact will that be?  i got these little spike pads. not sure if they are causing and adverse difference. will take them out tonight.

Paqutte floor can or not?

Someone told me to use 10-cent coins to rest these spikes on...is this good for the sound?  (Am I opening up another black hole?)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 22, 2009, 11:39
Duh. how much impact will that be?  i got these little spike pads. not sure if they are causing and adverse difference. will take them out tonight.

Shud make a difference or else Thiels wud not change it for nothing!!!  In any case, it looks better and more sexy..... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchthewaves on April 22, 2009, 12:16
the thiels are 4ohms drivers, so the cyrus 6vs2 at most outputs 50W at 4ohms really lacking in power.   :P
as compared to 40W at 8ohms. (normally it should be double the power when we half the impedance?)
I just took a look at the Thiel website.  Their recommended amp power is 100-400W for the 2.4.  Seems you are seriously underpowered.  Think you really need a bigger amp.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 12:29
Paqutte floor can or not?

Someone told me to use 10-cent coins to rest these spikes on...is this good for the sound?  (Am I opening up another black hole?)

(Audio)

You can use 10-cent coins to prevent your floor from being impregnated by the Thiel's 30kg/4 spikes. Or any other hard material. These will couple the speakers to the floor properly as well as prevent the speakers from rocking. You want a firm foundation and not something squishy.
Do take note that defacing currency is a capital offence.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on April 22, 2009, 12:33
the thiels are 4ohms drivers, so the cyrus 6vs2 at most outputs 50W at 4ohms really lacking in power.   :P
as compared to 40W at 8ohms. (normally it should be double the power when we half the impedance?)

Bro,

You can try a poweramp with more than 100W, matched to a nice, warm-sounding tube pre-amp. The emotional factor will kick up a notch.

I have 180W on my amp per channel just to drive the entry-level 1.6.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on April 22, 2009, 12:35
Hi DJQ,

Most Thiels that are rated at nominal 4 Ohms will dip to a minimum of about 3 Ohms at certain frequencies.

A solid state amp with theoratically perfect load tolerance will be able to deliver double the power into halving of each load, e.g. in the case of the Cyrus, 40W at 8 Ohms, 80W at 4Ohm and 160 W into 2 Ohms. Of course in the real world, most amps would give up the ghost as they approach 2 Ohm territory.

All the successful Thiel setups I've listened to either use high current solid state amplifiers, e.g. Mark Levinson, Classe, Krell etc., or alternatively tube amps with enough power.

In terms of balance, they are quite neutral and take on the character of the amp and source. In that sense, they can sound too clean or bright when paired with amps that are not capable of driving them, or have a lean or bright balance.

Class D amps can sound very good with Thiel also and really get a good grip on the bass drivers. You can listen to Thiels matched with Bel Canto at the local dealer. I currently have a Hypex UCD400 powering a CS 1.6. to very good effect. Many years ago, I used to pair a 30 W EL34 push pull tube amp with a CS 1.2.

the thiels are 4ohms drivers, so the cyrus 6vs2 at most outputs 50W at 4ohms really lacking in power.   :P
as compared to 40W at 8ohms. (normally it should be double the power when we half the impedance?)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 12:40
I just took a look at the Thiel website.  Their recommended amp power is 100-400W for the 2.4.  Seems you are seriously underpowered.  Think you really need a bigger amp.


Well, I'm using a 7 watter to drive my Thiels! I know those using a 22W 300B PP amp and he was happy as a lark! What is important is relative loudness and amplifier quality. I listen to max 80dB at 2m away. That relates to less than 1/2W! Of course, put in UB40's Present Arms or Scorpion's Black Out and you will need more power and that where my 200 Watter comes in. For Nora Jones or Julie London levels, my 7 Watter is ok. I guess having different amps for different music is my added advantage.  ;D
Thiels are quite revealing to whatever that is driving them upstream, and as Audio found out, includes speaker cables. You want warm, get warm sounding equipment. You want detail and holographic imaging, get something a lot better than warm. You want tight bass, get amps with loads of current reserve. You want soundstage that exceeds the speakers physical location, improve your room acoustics.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: pcking on April 22, 2009, 12:54
Singapore 5-cent coin is more effective.  ;D

Paqutte floor can or not?

Someone told me to use 10-cent coins to rest these spikes on...is this good for the sound?  (Am I opening up another black hole?)
(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchthewaves on April 22, 2009, 13:35
Heck, I'm using a 7 watter to drive my Thiels! I know those using a 22W 300B PP amp and he was happy as a lark! What is important is relative loudness and amplifier quality. I listen to max 80dB at 2m away. That relates to less than 1/2W! Of course, put in UB40's Present Arms or Scorpion's Black Out and you will need more power and that where my 200 Watter comes in. For Nora Jones or Julie London levels, imy 7 Watter is ok. I guess having different amps for different music is my added advantage.  ;D
Thiels are quite revealing to whatever that is driving them upstream, and as Audio found out, includes speaker cables. You want warm, get warm sounding equipment. You want detail and holographic imaging, get something a lot better than warm. You want tight bass, get amps with loads of current reserve. You want soundstage that exceeds the speakers physical location, improve your room acoustics.
So assuming he is listening at average levels and at a distance at which the continuous power required can be provided by his Cyrus, if there is less than satisfactory experience, could it possibly be because of:
- the amp (is it a class AB amp?) is operating most of the time outside A (ie lower quality?)?
- for the transients/peaks, the amp can't deliver the power/current required?

Then again, perhaps too much speculation.  Until we get more details (eg, listening level, distance, type of music, what he is hearing that he doesn't like), won't be able to say much.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on April 22, 2009, 14:09
Coming from a Cyrus owner, I can say the 6 series (class AB) cannot make it lah.  Even if you want to stick to Cyrus, my take is you need to upgrade 3 levels up to get the mono X for a kick-a*** 2.4 pairing.

Agree that Class D amps will give VFM and a good match in this case.

So assuming he is listening at average levels and at a distance at which the continuous power required can be provided by his Cyrus, if there is less than satisfactory experience, could it possibly be because of:
- the amp (is it a class AB amp?) is operating most of the time outside A (ie lower quality?)?
- for the transients/peaks, the amp can't deliver the power/current required?

Then again, perhaps too much speculation.  Until we get more details (eg, listening level, distance, type of music, what he is hearing that he doesn't like), won't be able to say much.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 14:26
What to do, he heard my 3.7 driven by my Ref1000 what......

So, 50W where enough?

(Audio)

This to the %$#%&*(^*%%#* guy who held my hand to Sammy's den after our Christmas eve party to fill my sockings with Bel cantos......ha ha ha

This is retribution.......   :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 14:58
wahahaha... walau you still remember ah.  ;D  Xmas party we were supposed to go buy CDs only lor.
never mind. i got a DIY goodie ready by mth end. lets see how... :-X
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 15:03
Last night I happened to play some of my LP45 CDs.  My impression of LP45 CDs till last night is that they are simply "rip-off" as I cannot preceive any sonic improvement.  Tsk tsk.  How wrong I was.  Campared Sally Yeh and Sam Hui LP45 to the SACD of the same artists and my, what a diff.

Went to this CD shop in Adelphi to get some SACD so can test/test at home.

But there was this fairly young shop owner who was also trying to demonstrate how good the old vinyls are. And these aren't NEW records but records he got from an old shop in Malaysia, and I compared them to a CD of a new release and WHOA! There was just so much dynamics and layers, it was unfreakingbelievable. And he did such a good job maintaining the record so there was no hiss, crack pop whatever. But even when there was, the detail wasn't lost. Yikes. I need a bigger rack. And records! :(

FunkyJazz has taken my Mingda Pre to try out on his SS Audiolab.  You can have it too after he finished with it............ :D

Which one is it? Is this the one you mentioned can buy for 400-500 and modify for another 400-500? Does it have a phono input? :P

includes speaker cables. You want warm, get warm sounding equipment. You want detail and holographic imaging, get something a lot better than warm.

How would you characterize the Synergistics in the showroom? :)

I thought they sounded warmer (but more detailed) than the QED Revelations I am using now.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 15:04
wahahaha... walau you still remember ah.  ;D  Xmas party we were supposed to go buy CDs only lor.
never mind. i got a DIY goodie ready by mth end. lets see how... :-X


Oui!!!  This is the Thiel Speaker Owners' thread, why your profile so outdated???  

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 15:11
Went to this CD shop in Adelphi to get some SACD so can test/test at home.

But there was this fairly young shop owner who was also trying to demonstrate how good the old vinyls are. And these aren't NEW records but records he got from an old shop in Malaysia, and I compared them to a CD of a new release and WHOA! There was just so much dynamics and layers, it was unfreakingbelievable. And he did such a good job maintaining the record so there was no hiss, crack pop whatever. But even when there was, the detail wasn't lost. Yikes. I need a bigger rack. And records! :(


YOU!  Contented squeezebox Duet user........

So lazy to even open CD tray door to load CD......I cannot imagine how you are going the vinyl way.....it 's not possible.

(Audio)

 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 15:12

How would you characterize the Synergistics in the showroom? :)

I thought they sounded warmer (but more detailed) than the QED Revelations I am using now.


It depends on the source material that you use to demo.  ;D Audio is using them albeit the entry level. Tesla series is a different ball game.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 15:14
YOU!  Contented squeezebox Duet user........

So lazy to even open CD tray door to load CD......I cannot imagine how you are going the vinyl way.....it 's not possible.

(Audio)

 

Can, if he walls up his window with vinyl racks as well as divider between that little alcove and dining room......LOL

One more post then kena 500!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 15:20

Oui!!!  This is the Thiel Speaker Owners' thread, why your profile so outdated???  

(Audio)


ok done! right on the top!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 15:22
It depends on the source material that you use to demo.  ;D Audio is using them albeit the entry level. Tesla series is a different ball game.

Which is the one that is being used in the main stereo listening room hooked up to the DAC3, Pre3, Ref1000 MkIIs? Are the interconnects hard to bend like the one I am using now?

I know there's a limiting factor cos my headfi is still a tad more revealing with the same source, so I believe it could be an interconnect/cable issue.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 15:26
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well). Welcome to our newest member ;)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Gear: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced interconnect can't recall the brand) to Bel Canto REF1000 to CS2.4 with QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/vn08xk.jpg)
(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
Mine still wrapped up as am concentrating on new addition to the family.

Planned to drive them with either a customised 7W 2A3 push pull tube amp, a customised 200W Tripath TA3020 Class T amp and other DIY/customised pre/power amps in between. Problem.

Source: various customised CD players/DACs/Phono/TT. Cables: various silver concoctions.

Room: Yet to be configured 4.5 x 3.5m room.

Why CS2.4s? Because any changes that I make in the signal path, from equipment to caps and internal wiring, I will hear it.


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets, 


9. DJQ
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/thiel.jpg)

Stereo: Thiel CS2.4, Cyrus CD 6s, Cyrus 6 vs2, Belden Studio 814, IeGO L70530 Power Cable w/pure copper 8055CT
G&W TW-D1000 Power Conditioner modded IeGO 24k Gold plate pure copper R301 socket

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 15:33
YOU!  Contented squeezebox Duet user........

So lazy to even open CD tray door to load CD......I cannot imagine how you are going the vinyl way.....it 's not possible.  

You know.. there's something very tactile and intimate about handling a record.

I guess some would say the top loader CD is similar.

Can, if he walls up his window with vinyl racks as well as divider between that little alcove and dining room......LOL

Siao ah! My wife has already threatened more than once to kick me out after coming home to the mess (aka hifi rack). It was sooo tidy stacked on top of the big ass sub :P




Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 22, 2009, 15:34
Went to this CD shop in Adelphi to get some SACD so can test/test at home.

But there was this fairly young shop owner who was also trying to demonstrate how good the old vinyls are. And these aren't NEW records but records he got from an old shop in Malaysia, and I compared them to a CD of a new release and WHOA! There was just so much dynamics and layers, it was unfreakingbelievable. And he did such a good job maintaining the record so there was no hiss, crack pop whatever. But even when there was, the detail wasn't lost. Yikes. I need a bigger rack. And records! :(

Which one is it? Is this the one you mentioned can buy for 400-500 and modify for another 400-500? Does it have a phono input? :P


Yes, bought for $501 and addtl $230 for modification.  Of course, it has phono input BUT you still have to use a good phono stage to get the good stuff out from the vinyl.  I have the Salience/Jasmine 2.1 (separate power supply) phono stage under going running in at Kelso's.  You can try it too after he has finished with it or you can have my Lehman
Black cube undergoing R301 replacement at DJQ's................ ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 15:47
Which is the one that is being used in the main stereo listening room hooked up to the DAC3, Pre3, Ref1000 MkIIs? Are the interconnects hard to bend like the one I am using now?

I know there's a limiting factor cos my headfi is still a tad more revealing with the same source, so I believe it could be an interconnect/cable issue.



Qsonix to DAC3 - Synergistic Research (SR) D2 BNC Digital
CD-2 to DAC3 - Silversmith Silver XLR Digital
Melody2 to DAC3 - Std Optical
DAC3 to PRE3 - SR Apex XLR
PRE3 to REF1000 Mk II - Silversmith Silver XLR
REF1000 Mk II to Thiel CS2.4SE/CS3.7 - SR Tesla Series Acoustic Reference Speaker Cable

All are bendable although some are stiffer especially the high current power cords but not as stiff as the older X and X2 series.


500!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 22, 2009, 15:52
Is there any listed above that bears any relation to Sammy's shop demo loudspeaker cable that has a price tag of $3.7K per pair?

(Audio).....entry level.....tsk tsk.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 15:58
Is there any listed above that bears any relation to Sammy's shop demo loudspeaker cable that has a price tag of $3.7K per pair?

(Audio).....entry level.....tsk tsk.....

Err.. the speaker cables? Acoustic Reference 8ft pair.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 16:30

More interested to see the impact of these two..

PRE3 to REF1000 Mk II - Silversmith Silver XLR
REF1000 Mk II to Thiel CS2.4SE/CS3.7 - SR Tesla Series Acoustic Reference Speaker Cable

All are bendable although some are stiffer especially the high current power cords but not as stiff as the older X and X2 series.

The Silversmith is even more expensive than the Tesla??
:P

Will probably pop by this Friday ;) payday! hehe

500!!

Congrats ;) ps your comments not followed by e & o e, right? ;)

Is there any listed above that bears any relation to Sammy's shop demo loudspeaker cable that has a price tag of $3.7K per pair?

I think it's the Tesla. I sent you link to review of the midrange one not too long ago hehe.

Your entry probably more tok kong than my QEDs liao!

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 16:32
Yes, bought for $501 and addtl $230 for modification.  Of course, it has phono input BUT you still have to use a good phono stage to get the good stuff out from the vinyl. 

Which model is it? Seems like Mingda got damn many models

When you say good phono stage, you mean a separate box between turntable and pre-amp?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 17:04
More interested to see the impact of these two..

The Silversmith is even more expensive than the Tesla??
:P
Depends on model and type of cable. Please call Sound Decisions for more relevant info.
 ;D
Congrats  ps your comments not followed by e & o e, right?
:P
Course Not! Been here long enough to get it. Just couldn't find the opportunity to get involved. Vested interest and conflict of interest etc... you know. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 17:11
Yes, bought for $501 and addtl $230 for modification.  Of course, it has phono input BUT you still have to use a good phono stage to get the good stuff out from the vinyl.  I have the Salience/Jasmine 2.1 (separate power supply) phono stage under going running in at Kelso's.  You can try it too after he has finished with it or you can have my Lehman
Black cube undergoing R301 replacement at DJQ's................ ;D


yupz, its already done. should be free to pass it to you tomorrow night. hey i also keen on the tube pre. i'll follow your recommendations. heheh.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 17:47
I just took a look at the Thiel website.  Their recommended amp power is 100-400W for the 2.4.  Seems you are seriously underpowered.  Think you really need a bigger amp.


yes i believe so. guess the cyrus gotta go. ::)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 17:57
Depends on model and type of cable. Please call Sound Decisions for more relevant info.

and there goes my NEXT paycheck! :P

I feel like coming down with my iPod/iTransport one day and just see how it sounds on the DAC3 and the Tesla and just see if they make enough of a difference... I am actually more worried if it DOES :D



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 18:01
yes i believe so. guess the cyrus gotta go. ::)

or get power amps to match.

The cyrus can also act as a good pre- and may add some warmth to the Thiels so it's not a complete loss.

IMHO

If you need watts, I think Class Ds do a pretty good job of delivering oomph. So the usual suspects, Flying Mole, NuForce and Bel Cantos.. and the Cyrus' warmth may be a good match for those more neutral amps as well.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 18:06
So assuming he is listening at average levels and at a distance at which the continuous power required can be provided by his Cyrus, if there is less than satisfactory experience, could it possibly be because of:
- the amp (is it a class AB amp?) is operating most of the time outside A (ie lower quality?)?
- for the transients/peaks, the amp can't deliver the power/current required?

Then again, perhaps too much speculation.  Until we get more details (eg, listening level, distance, type of music, what he is hearing that he doesn't like), won't be able to say much.



all i can say for now is. (a/b comparison for discussion sake) cyrus on the 601 S3 was it made it perform at its best. bass had gone lower with very good control. drums specially. now on the thiels bass is suddenly overwhelming, i cant pick up the same bass drums i i use to hear anymore. anyway i still have to do some tweaks before any further equipment change. room area IS now the main concern. overall still very impressed with the details at only 2mm toe-in. Damn stereo stage big and wide. i gotta those diffusers and bass traps 1st.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 18:10
and there goes my NEXT paycheck! :P

I feel like coming down with my iPod/iTransport one day and just see how it sounds on the DAC3 and the Tesla and just see if they make enough of a difference... I am actually more worried if it DOES :D



you ARE in trouble if you listen to the DAC3. i guarantee and CHOP! the Cyrus DAC XP already made a huge impact both have the same BB chips.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 18:11
and there goes my NEXT paycheck! :P

I feel like coming down with my iPod/iTransport one day and just see how it sounds on the DAC3 and the Tesla and just see if they make enough of a difference... I am actually more worried if it DOES :D


Be worried, seriously worried..... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 22, 2009, 18:12
all i can say for now is. (a/b comparison for discussion sake) cyrus on the 601 S3 was it made it perform at its best. bass had gone lower with very good control. drums specially. now on the thiels bass is suddenly overwhelming, i cant pick up the same bass drums i i use to hear anymore. anyway i still have to do some tweaks before any further equipment change. room area IS now the main concern. overall still very impressed with the details at only 2mm toe-in. Damn stereo stage big and wide. i gotta those diffusers and bass traps 1st.

Your room, my friend is let's say, in need of breathing space.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on April 22, 2009, 18:16
Scratch the Flying Mole. I had a pair of the 100w monoblocks. They were extremely unhappy driving 4 Ohm loads. 8 Ohm loads were not an issue though.



or get power amps to match.

The cyrus can also act as a good pre- and may add some warmth to the Thiels so it's not a complete loss.

IMHO

If you need watts, I think Class Ds do a pretty good job of delivering oomph. So the usual suspects, Flying Mole, NuForce and Bel Cantos.. and the Cyrus' warmth may be a good match for those more neutral amps as well.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 22, 2009, 18:31
Your room, my friend is let's say, in need of breathing space.

ok then i open my window so can breath better???  :P
if not i move them to the living room area. at least much much bigger breathing space. 30kg i can carry them?  :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 19:06
you ARE in trouble if you listen to the DAC3. i guarantee and CHOP! the Cyrus DAC XP already made a huge impact both have the same BB chips.

I think I am more interested to see the effect of the Tesla (XLR interconnect from pre-power and speaker cable combo) :P

If switch to DAC3, means to add Pre3 to the list as well.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 19:07
Scratch the Flying Mole. I had a pair of the 100w monoblocks. They were extremely unhappy driving 4 Ohm loads. 8 Ohm loads were not an issue though.

I did try my Quad 606 with the Thiels and I thought the Quad drove the Thiels adequately.. just without as good a soundstage.

On my home setup then, the FM did IMHO a better job of driving my old 601S2s. I guess I assumed it would do a similar job with the Thiels.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 22, 2009, 19:24
Which model is it? Seems like Mingda got damn many models

When you say good phono stage, you mean a separate box between turntable and pre-amp?


This one......
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/franciswookimleong/mc7sig.jpg)






Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 20:56
This one......
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/franciswookimleong/mc7sig.jpg)

I hope that's not the phono stage :P

Damn, the Mingda looks pretty
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 22, 2009, 21:29
I hope that's not the phono stage :P

Damn, the Mingda looks pretty

This is the phono stage.....
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/franciswookimleong/jasminelp2a.jpg)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 22, 2009, 21:39
Wah...so much discussion.  I friday on leave, originally planning to drop in to aldephi to jalan jalan.

Now I think I better siam sound decision on fri...else kenna poison.

Btw...can borrow to home trial cables or not huh?  :p
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 22, 2009, 23:17
This is the phono stage.....
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/franciswookimleong/jasminelp2a.jpg)

Man, all your gear all v pretty one :P

Q: why do you need TWO phono stages?

Wah...so much discussion.  I friday on leave, originally planning to drop in to aldephi to jalan jalan.

Now I think I better siam sound decision on fri...else kenna poison.

Btw...can borrow to home trial cables or not huh?  :p

Come lah.. let's kia kia together :D

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 23, 2009, 08:40
This is the phono stage.....
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/franciswookimleong/jasminelp2a.jpg)



wahhaha jasmine twins... ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 23, 2009, 10:05
Man, all your gear all v pretty one :P

Q: why do you need TWO phono stages?


Bro, one is a power supply........... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 23, 2009, 10:38
Bro, one is a power supply........... :D

I thought you are going to say, the phono stage are all mono-blocks.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 23, 2009, 10:44
Hahaha...that's a good one.  They do look like mono blocks....... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 23, 2009, 17:01
Doing some research on cables...

DIYer said these were the cables being used in the showroom...
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/page/cables/interconnects/acoustic_reference

Damn, I really like the description :P

Quote
The Tesla Acoustic Reference Active Interconnects combine one Tricon geometry with one Acoustic geometry for a sonic balance that enhances mid-range bloom and allows for greater air when compared to Accelerator. It is the perfect cable for listeners seeking increased mid-range presence and low frequency weight. The Acoustic Reference interconnect presents music with a slightly rounder and musical pace when compared to either Precision Reference or Accelerator interconnects; without sacrificing extension at the frequency extremes. Acoustic Reference should be used first as a source to pre amp interconnect to create a more tube like balance with either Accelerator or Precision Reference interconnects running from pre amp to power amp. Lastly, Acoustic Reference can be used throughout the signal path when a warm musical balance is desired. The Acoustic Reference features Quantum Tunneling, Zero Capacitance Active Shielding as well as one Tricon and one Acoustic geometry.

Usage: Solid State or Tubes, Acoustic Reference interconnects will provide a musical presentation without losing frequency extension. A tube-like bloom is combined with presence and pace bettering the classic Synergistic Research strengths of image liquidity, mid range-bloom and harmonic texture. Acoustic Reference should be used between source components as well as pre-amp to amp applications.

Active Shielding: Zero Capacitance Active Shielding is the ultimate in detail and transparency with two active geometries for mid-range warmth, liquidity and three dimensionality of soundstage.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on April 23, 2009, 17:32
Doing some research on cables...

DIYer said these were the cables being used in the showroom...
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/page/cables/interconnects/acoustic_reference

Damn, I really like the description :P
 

Some people call this kind of description as cable snake oil.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 23, 2009, 19:13
Some people call this kind of description as cable snake oil.


Well, I am a believer ;)

Headfi journey. Spent almost 1k to recable my Livewires with Crystal Cables picolini :P and amazed at the results.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 24, 2009, 11:49
Wah...so much discussion.  I friday on leave, originally planning to drop in to aldephi to jalan jalan.

Now I think I better siam sound decision on fri...else kenna poison.

Btw...can borrow to home trial cables or not huh?  :p

If you drop by today, you will know the answer.... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 24, 2009, 14:27
If you drop by today, you will know the answer.... ;D

aiyah. still stuck in office :(

looks like gotta wait till monday liao. so what is jon's next poison?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 24, 2009, 14:44
aiyah. still stuck in office :(

looks like gotta wait till monday liao. so what is jon's next poison?

Monday it is. As to Jon, well, I'm curious too.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 25, 2009, 00:59
(cross posted from the Serious Listening thread) :P

Had a rough week at work... got back home and understanding wife let me just sit in the sweet spot and I selected my playlist of easy listening tracks.

I think this is the first time I sat in the same spot for so long and listened uninterrupted. I don't know if this is serious listening but it's probably the most intent and intense one for me.

Some of these tracks are new. Some of them aren't but I haven't heard some of them in ages, when I used to listen through an AVR setup :)

Whatever the case, it was almost a religious experience. While some great artistes may be able to weave a story in each album, the playlist I created also managed to lift me out of my depression. I don't recall what I was thinking when I created that list and added more and more tracks over time so there's about 51 songs in that list.

I used to think that the with my current setup, the Thiels were less detailed than my headfi gear. But I always did the comparison at pretty moderately high listening levels. Tonight, because my wife was in the room with me, at her laptop, I turned the level slightly lower than when I am alone. And this time, the details really blew me away. I was hearing stuff I hadn't even heard in my headfi gear. I suspect my smaller room probably cramped the dynamics.

The low end extension on the 2.4s are just beautiful. Even in tracks that aren't bass heavy, you can feel the bass from stuff like microphonics during recording.

Crappy week or not.. coming home to the Thiels have really lifted my spirits up.

(maybe can resist the upgrade bug... for a while) hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 25, 2009, 10:41
Monday it is. As to Jon, well, I'm curious too.

Sorrie pal...things got a bit tied up yesterday.  Not enough time to visit aldephi.   :P

btw...so far anyone using the e.One S300i# dual mono int amp to drive the 2.4?  Any of which comes with a HT bypass input?   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 25, 2009, 12:58
Sorrie pal...things got a bit tied up yesterday.  Not enough time to visit aldephi.   :P

btw...so far anyone using the e.One S300i# dual mono int amp to drive the 2.4?  Any of which comes with a HT bypass input?   ;D

I believe S300i has the HT bypass.

User Manual
http://belcantodesign.com/pdfs/UG_eOneS300_M300.pdf

As does the Pre3.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Kopi on April 25, 2009, 13:29
Quote
he low end extension on the 2.4s are just beautiful. Even in tracks that aren't bass heavy, you can feel the bass from stuff like microphonics during recording.

Crappy week or not.. coming home to the Thiels have really lifted my spirits up.

(maybe can resist the upgrade bug... for a while) hehe

I was in your position till I heard the Thiel 7.2. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 25, 2009, 15:52
Francis already say my room so small cannot take the 2.4s. The 3.7s would already be too large much less the 7.2s :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 25, 2009, 23:02
mine even smaller lor. neither here nor there. i am still adjusting to the much heighten quality SQ coming from my 2.4s. what has impressed me is, the WAF! i can play louder without her telling me its noisy. haha i love it. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 25, 2009, 23:52
what has impressed me is, the WAF! i can play louder without her telling me its noisy. haha i love it. ;D

:P

Ditto!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 26, 2009, 10:54
last night i played till quite late. listening to my fav Cai Qin,Dire Straits, Celine Dion. specially La Bamba. the intruments were very detailed. the dynamics was resounding. i think everyone here got more powerful amp to drive their thiels. definitely i am not doing justice to them. neg point is room really too small. i am hearing lots of reflections. :(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 26, 2009, 11:39
last night i played till quite late. listening to my fav Cai Qin,Dire Straits, Celine Dion. specially La Bamba. the intruments were very detailed. the dynamics was resounding. i think everyone here got more powerful amp to drive their thiels. definitely i am not doing justice to them. neg point is room really too small. i am hearing lots of reflections. :(

What is the listening level you are using now?

I find that in my living room, I can get about 80dB peak 90dB with a good amount of clarity. Ideally 80 ish peaking around 85dB.

Louder than that and the room cannot take it anymore.

ps while I was researching Synergistics Cables, I came across their own range of room treatment furnite.

I have no idea how big those are, but they look super wife friendly siah!

:P

(http://www.synergisticresearch.com/images/home/AcousticARTHomePage.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 26, 2009, 13:40
haha yeah. i have seen them and heard with & without. cant really pinpoint the reason how it helps but there is a difference. if it was $500 i will just buy it. but nooo... its a 4digit... can buy my thiels liao.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 27, 2009, 15:29
DJQ, don't mind if I ask how much approx is a pair of Thiel 2.4? Not itchy or anything.... just following up on Francis' suggestion yesterday.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 27, 2009, 15:37
DJQ, don't mind if I ask how much approx is a pair of Thiel 2.4? Not itchy or anything.... just following up on Francis' suggestion yesterday.



Eh, I've found out oledi, thank  :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 27, 2009, 15:42
haha. very competitive price right. anyway dun think i can get such a huge apartment like Francis's place. i can imagine the Soundstage of the 2.4 if it was in Francis place. nothin esle beats it. feeling so sad....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 27, 2009, 15:47
haha. very competitive price right. anyway dun think i can get such a huge apartment like Francis's place. i can imagine the Soundstage of the 2.4 if it was in Francis place. nothin esle beats it. feeling so sad....

damn right man. Extremely competitive. Salivate and NATO (no action talk only) hahhaa.
Looks very good and "competitive", though

How many of us have a place like Francis, large living room dedicated to AV. Fantastic man. Think can mill about there for hours. Plenty of gadgets and snake oil to explore....


 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 27, 2009, 15:49
damn right man. Extremely competitive. Salivate and NATO (no action talk only) hahhaa.
Looks very good and "competitive", though

How many of us have a place like Francis, large living room dedicated to AV. Fantastic man. Think can mill about there for hours. Plenty of gadgets and snake oil to explore....


now you know why i'm the last to leave his place? lol
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 27, 2009, 15:52
now you know why i'm the last to leave his place? lol

ah? and I thought you were waiting for me to give you a lift! hahahaha

I'll be following your next move on the CDP front with great interest, my friend..... I'd have thought yesterday's session would have just confused you more  :D

Anyway, lets not OT here
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 27, 2009, 16:45
haha. very competitive price right. anyway dun think i can get such a huge apartment like Francis's place. i can imagine the Soundstage of the 2.4 if it was in Francis place. nothin esle beats it. feeling so sad....
No need to feel sad.
I think some of the best setups I have heard over the years are in small rooms. Floorstanders included.
Just need to get the right matching and possibly room treatment. :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 27, 2009, 17:44
No need to feel sad.
I think some of the best setups I have heard over the years are in small rooms. Floorstanders included.
Just need to get the right matching and possibly room treatment. :)

i will think i need a 2nd opinion. esle my small place can only go bookshelfs.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 27, 2009, 17:55
i will think i need a 2nd opinion. esle my small place can only go bookshelfs.....

Do you want to borrow my 2 diffusers to try out behind your Thiels!!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 27, 2009, 20:11


actually, if your listening room is small, can consider the 1.6 or even a pair of scs-4.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 27, 2009, 20:13
i will think i need a 2nd opinion. esle my small place can only go bookshelfs.....
We can visit each other and share tips. I find my room pretty small already.

Do you want to borrow my 2 diffusers to try out behind your Thiels!!!
I would like to borrow to try if DJQ is not. :P
My front wall needs some treatment but no idea where to start with just 10 inches to play with (to wall).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 27, 2009, 20:44
DJQ, don't mind if I ask how much approx is a pair of Thiel 2.4? Not itchy or anything.... just following up on Francis' suggestion yesterday.

Bear in mind the US list price is abt US$4k (more for the fancier finishes) and you realize why some of us are comparing it with equivalently priced models from err other brands, which for some reason suddenly appear not very good VFM :D

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 27, 2009, 21:39
Bear in mind the US list price is abt US$4k (more for the fancier finishes) and you realize why some of us are comparing it with equivalently priced models from err other brands, which for some reason suddenly appear not very good VFM :D



yeah, YY told me about the price. Very "competitive", as DJQ puts it,hahaha.
I'm sure it sounds great though. It really looks the part
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 27, 2009, 22:42
Do you want to borrow my 2 diffusers to try out behind your Thiels!!!

yeah yeah. thanks would love to. but erm behind? i tought the more critical area would be the side wall reflections?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 27, 2009, 22:45
We can visit each other and share tips. I find my room pretty small already.
I would like to borrow to try if DJQ is not. :P
My front wall needs some treatment but no idea where to start with just 10 inches to play with (to wall).

yeah we can arrange. heheh wah so fast wanna borrow ah. let me try 1st mah.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 27, 2009, 22:56
yeah, YY told me about the price. Very "competitive", as DJQ puts it,hahaha.
I'm sure it sounds great though. It really looks the part

The sound isn't for everyone though. It is more revealing and more neutral than most speakers. Then again, I recall you have a pretty warm setup for the source and amp, so maybe the Thiels balances out things a little ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 27, 2009, 23:05
yeah, YY told me about the price. Very "competitive", as DJQ puts it,hahaha.
I'm sure it sounds great though. It really looks the part

ok bro....sorry for the mis-information :P

pm u the correct one lol

they are very competitive priced unlike hm.....other brands....that have more heritage is in this business longer
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 28, 2009, 10:22
yeah yeah. thanks would love to. but erm behind? i tought the more critical area would be the side wall reflections?

Try all areas and see which position is best.  When you are done, pass them to Quest.......... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 10:35
 :D :D :D
thank you thank you  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 28, 2009, 10:41
Try all areas and see which position is best.  When you are done, pass them to Quest.......... :D
Thanks in advance francis. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 10:45
ps while I was researching Synergistics Cables, I came across their own range of room treatment furnite.

I have no idea how big those are, but they look super wife friendly siah!

(http://www.synergisticresearch.com/images/home/AcousticARTHomePage.jpg)

You know, I have been to the showroom in Sound Decisions sooooo many times and I never even noticed these AcousticART units were installed there. Only noticed them when I asked Sanjay about them. AMAZING WAF man! So discrete.

So I sat on the listening couch, and sanjay removed the little magnet ball from the "cup holder". OK. Sounded normal. Good tight bass like always.

Then he paused the track, went to the "cup holder" and put the magnet ball back in play. Then he requeued the music to play back from the beginning and this time, there was a much quicker response, and this time, I could feel the sofa shake as well. How da heck does it work!??

Thing is, I don't think it will help get rid of my problems.. which is the 50Hz boost in my living room :(


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 28, 2009, 10:52
You know, I have been to the showroom in Sound Decisions sooooo many times and I never even noticed these AcousticART units were installed there. Only noticed them when I asked Sanjay about them. AMAZING WAF man! So discrete.

So I sat on the listening couch, and sanjay removed the little magnet ball from the "cup holder". OK. Sounded normal. Good tight bass like always.

Then he paused the track, went to the "cup holder" and put the magnet ball back in play. Then he requeued the music to play back from the beginning and this time, there was a much quicker response, and this time, I could feel the sofa shake as well. How da heck does it work!??

Thing is, I don't think it will help get rid of my problems.. which is the 50Hz boost in my living room :(
I noticed them the first time I was there. :)
Shouldn't you be the one to tell us how it works since you were auditioning it? :P
How much would these things cost anyway?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on April 28, 2009, 11:22
Bear in mind the US list price is abt US$4k (more for the fancier finishes) and you realize why some of us are comparing it with equivalently priced models from err other brands, which for some reason suddenly appear not very good VFM :D



Thiel prices in HK is also very reasonable vis-a-vis compared to Singapore.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 28, 2009, 11:28
yeah, YY told me about the price. Very "competitive", as DJQ puts it,hahaha.
I'm sure it sounds great though. It really looks the part
Just curious, since quite a few of you think these speakers look nice.. what other speaker range from other brands do you also consider attractive?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 28, 2009, 11:39
Just curious, since quite a few of you think these speakers look nice.. what other speaker range from other brands do you also consider attractive?

The Focal Be series...  swee swee...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 28, 2009, 11:39
The sound isn't for everyone though. It is more revealing and more neutral than most speakers. Then again, I recall you have a pretty warm setup for the source and amp, so maybe the Thiels balances out things a little ;)

My source (Cayin MT40) is quite detailed and clear, I suppose some might call it bright. My amp is a cayin A55T, quite warm. Running RS6s. I'm still trying to get the hang of describing speaker signatures - but would consider RS6 to be biased on the upper trebles. Currently using pure copper cables.

My set up sounded OK last night at higher volumes, a bit boomy but suspect its room acoustics and the fact that my speakers are rather close to the wall. So, I'm not sure how much better a Thiel may fare and given the price I wonder if I can (or ought to!).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 28, 2009, 11:43
Just curious, since quite a few of you think these speakers look nice.. what other speaker range from other brands do you also consider attractive?

Focal
Paradigm
KEF

Indeed, Max's Mordaunt Short Mezzo 8 is also quite nice-looking.

In spite of all the good press for the MA RS series, I do not particularly think that the MA silvers look very nice. Oh, but the Platinums.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 28, 2009, 11:45
Focal
Paradigm
KEF

Indeed, Max's Mordaunt Short Mezzo 8 is also quite nice-looking.

In spite of all the good press for the MA RS series, I do not particularly think that the MA silvers look very nice. Oh, but the Platinums.....
Maybe we should split this off as another thread.. ;D
Best looking speakers.. hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: hobbeslow on April 28, 2009, 11:48
Maybe we should split this off as another thread.. ;D
Best looking speakers.. hehe

second that, It'll be a very useful resource for brothers who need it to fulfill WAF.  ;D

Can post pics and maybe also encourage some creative photography....!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 12:10
I noticed them the first time I was there. :)
Shouldn't you be the one to tell us how it works since you were auditioning it? :P
How much would these things cost anyway?

can buy 1 set 2.4s  :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 28, 2009, 13:46
can buy 1 set 2.4s  :o

Not the same price as a pair of new CS2.4s lah. Don't forget, your 2.4s were heavily discounted due to forseen circumstances.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 14:05
I noticed them the first time I was there. :)
Shouldn't you be the one to tell us how it works since you were auditioning it? :P
How much would these things cost anyway?

I only know it works. I dunno how it works :)

heh, I can imagine Audio chiming in now to shout: SNAKE OIL!

but I am always open to new ideas :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 28, 2009, 14:09
Hate to admit it but when I was considering speakers, I got in mind the follwing (not in the order of merit):-

(1) B&W; 7 or 8 series.
(2) Focal, anything with Be tweeter at least.

(Audio)

Thiel looks great what......for 3.7, have to put on the grill only mah.....the corrugated cones really distract the good looks of the nice flowing shape and wood veneer of the speakers.


Looks is one thing, ultimately, it must be the sound that must be good.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 14:11
Thiel prices in HK is also very reasonable vis-a-vis compared to Singapore.

I can't imagine how I am gonna drag the speakers from Mongkok to the airport and getting them through to check in :D

FWIW, I do think the prices here with local support is surprisingly reasonable, considering the LIST prices are virtually the same as list prices in US (converted to S$ using current exchange rates)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 28, 2009, 14:14
Snake oil at $1 a bottle is OK......

Snake oil at $3,000 is a little harder to appreciate....what if you buy and then out comes green , red and blue snake oil??  Then how??  Pour in another $9,000 to try try??

Mind open to new ideas.....wallet does not.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 28, 2009, 14:23
I can't imagine how I am gonna drag the speakers from Mongkok to the airport and getting them through to check in :D

FWIW, I do think the prices here with local support is surprisingly reasonable, considering the LIST prices are virtually the same as list prices in US (converted to S$ using current exchange rates)




Drag from Mongkok is only part of the problem....still have to store in Hotel and then airport, checking in will be a problem.  Anyway, one speaker (not a pair) will suck dry your 20kg baggage allowance.  These speakers are unnaturally heavy.

Imagine the baggage handler throwing your Thiel onto the bottom of the baggage truck with everyone else luggages above it...WAH LAU!!  Your 3.7 cones will become flat, no more corrugated....you will cry like a baby when you get back to Changi.

(Audio)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 14:42

Drag from Mongkok is only part of the problem....still have to store in Hotel and then airport, checking in will be a problem.  Anyway, one speaker (not a pair) will suck dry your 20kg baggage allowance.  These speakers are unnaturally heavy.

Heh... I meant check out from hotel, go to Mongkok to buy and pickup.. then go direct to airport.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 14:45
Just curious, since quite a few of you think these speakers look nice.. what other speaker range from other brands do you also consider attractive?

Depends on the decor of your room, I guess.

For more traditional, conservative designs, I have always liked the B&W 800 series. With the Kevlar cone exposed.

For those in a more avant garde styling, I am more partial to Anthony Gallos Reference 3.1s. I love the cube and metallic frame which are not only pretty but also very functional. I am still trying to get used to the 5LS design.

But the most OTT design, which I feel only works in very limited places but damn chio.. are these:
(http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=32314&stc=1&d=1209411704)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 14:46
Maybe we should split this off as another thread.. ;D
Best looking speakers.. hehe

Aiyah, we not so pedantic here :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 14:50
Snake oil at $1 a bottle is OK......

Snake oil at $3,000 is a little harder to appreciate....what if you buy and then out comes green , red and blue snake oil??  Then how??  Pour in another $9,000 to try try??


Hence the need to audition, preferably in your home setup (or close to it).

Speaking of which.. how are the copper power cords? :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 15:08
Not the same price as a pair of new CS2.4s lah. Don't forget, your 2.4s were heavily discounted due to forseen circumstances.

 :-X
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 15:22
Hence the need to audition, preferably in your home setup (or close to it).

Speaking of which.. how are the copper power cords? :P

Copper? i am trying to tell him go full Silver plugs... but he !@#$%^&* at me. hahahaha ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: matty on April 28, 2009, 17:32
why not rhodium? go for the TOP!  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 17:44
why not rhodium? go for the TOP!  ;D

haha. erm thats something some dun believe in paying for. lots of complications and implications.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 28, 2009, 17:55
Why not go for gold......or platinium?  What if we go back to brass and found that brass sounds better?  How?


There will be no end to all snake oil remedies, I suppose.


I sense the power cords does some good, like 5%, allow a better focus of each individual sound and lessen "audio smudge". With the black power cord, the sound seems to spread wider, the iego cord reduce that spread and focus it to a more precise spot.

I have took out the XinBoa, and wire UK plugs direct to the iego.  All 5 lines running to the Bel cantos are like that and I am ordeing some more lines from DJQ for the Sub, the AVP and the 115 source.

I also believe that the overall sound is a little brighter now......

(Audio)

 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Jagdpanzer on April 28, 2009, 18:00
I did not there are so many Thiel users here. I'm also a Thiel CS2.4 user. I cannot even find Thiel user thread in Echoloft.
Do you guys listen with the grille on? Thought of changing my trusty Kimber 8TC. Sometimes I find this speaker sounds pretty boxy.
I'm using a 200 watt
integrated  amp to drive the pair.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 18:19
yeah thanks to DH's recent uproar    ;D
as per thiels website. it makes no difference whether the grilles are on or off. some like the looks of the drivers. some just the clean flat look with grille on. up to you.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 28, 2009, 18:29
Why not go for gold......or platinium?  What if we go back to brass and found that brass sounds better?  How?


There will be no end to all snake oil remedies, I suppose.


I sense the power cords does some good, like 5%, allow a better focus of each individual sound and lessen "audio smudge". With the black power cord, the sound seems to spread wider, the iego cord reduce that spread and focus it to a more precise spot.

I have took out the XinBoa, and wire UK plugs direct to the iego.  All 5 lines running to the Bel cantos are like that and I am ordeing some more lines from DJQ for the Sub, the AVP and the 115 source.

I also believe that the overall sound is a little brighter now......

(Audio)

ok. sometimes i feel i try too hard to convince you on that. too bright you say? Now you definitely made me go all out to source for that UK pure Silver Rhodium plated plug for you.(silver power cord aimai? i find that also) die die must make you feel its more than 5% improvement.  ;D
courtesy from your local IeGO guy.
DJQ  ;D ;) :) :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 18:32
Why not go for gold......or platinium?  What if we go back to brass and found that brass sounds better?  How?

I think that most power cord upgrades (silver, copper or otherwise) are all improvements from the bundled affairs. The main differences, as DJQ and Quest have been trying to say is that, they are well, different. Depending on your setup, these differences may complement your gear or they may not. Hence the need for auditions, I guess.

Ditto with speaker cables. As long as you aren't running the basic old black/red twisted stuff they sell in SLT but one properly engineered, you'll see an improvement. Beyond that, laws of diminishing returns apply plus the standard caveats that the differences may or may not be better for your own setup.

Personally, I am pretty happy with the uprated iegos.

FWIW, I think DIYer mentioned to me that for the same sum of money, it's probably better to spend it on the real hardware (eg upgrading my REF1000s to Mk II specs) like what you have done (vs the same money on cables) :) but I think the old Monsters were a real limiting factor for your really tok kong gear ;)

I sense the power cords does some good, like 5%, allow a better focus of each individual sound and lessen "audio smudge". With the black power cord, the sound seems to spread wider, the iego cord reduce that spread and focus it to a more precise spot.

I have took out the XinBoa, and wire UK plugs direct to the iego.  All 5 lines running to the Bel cantos are like that and I am ordeing some more lines from DJQ for the Sub, the AVP and the 115 source.

I also believe that the overall sound is a little brighter now......

Hehe :) welcome to the dark side, brother.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 28, 2009, 18:55
I did not there are so many Thiel users here. I'm also a Thiel CS2.4 user. I cannot even find Thiel user thread in Echoloft.

POST PICS ;) And I'll update the member list heh

Do you guys listen with the grille on?

I tend to. I think I might have to kill myself if there's dust on the drivers :P

Looks very understated with the grilles on, and from what I recall, these are supposed to be sonically transparent and so far have not noticed any difference with or without the grille. My old speakers (whosenameshallnotbementioned) did noticeably sound a little bit more muffled with the grilles on.

Thought of changing my trusty Kimber 8TC. Sometimes I find this speaker sounds pretty boxy.
I'm using a 200 watt
integrated  amp to drive the pair.

How are you positioning the speakers. Did you try to follow the instructions in manual for optimal results?

3 feet from wall behind speakers, 3-5 from side walls. 8 feet apart. Facing forward with no toe in.

I can't fulfil the requirements but I found that with my current setup: 1.25 feet from wall behind, 1.2 feet from side window/blackout curtains and about 7.5 feet apart, with no toe in, the soundstaging has improved a lot.

Other possibilities to consider:
How long have you had the speakers? Did you give them enough time to run in? I found the first 100 hours unbearable :)

The speakers are very revealing so some CDs dont sound so good. I bought a Miley Cyrus (yes, don't laugh!) CD for The Climb and that freaking CD was so compressed, it was barely better than an MP3. Bastid recording engineer.

Amps not having enough oomph? The CS2.4s are rated at 4ohms and at some frequencies, dip down to abt 3 ohms. That requires a very gutsy amp. My old Quad 606 power amps were rated at about 220W for a 4ohm load and I thought it was pretty decent but the soundstage was missing some height when using the REF1000 Mk IIs (rated 1000W for 4ohm loads). Depends on the music, I guess. If the music is mainly stuff like vocals, should be OK with a lower powered amp.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 29, 2009, 14:31
yeah thanks to DH's recent uproar    ;D
as per thiels website. it makes no difference whether the grilles are on or off. some like the looks of the drivers. some just the clean flat look with grille on. up to you.  :)

the only reason i have the grill on is cos of the kids..!!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 29, 2009, 15:10
the only reason i have the grill on is cos of the kids..!!!
yes yes. must have grille on. best dun let them see you take out.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 30, 2009, 14:03
Some other people's opinion on Thiel's in Audiogon. Enjoy. ;D
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1240778090 (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1240778090)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 30, 2009, 14:24
Where are YOUR pics ;)?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 30, 2009, 14:37
Where are YOUR pics ;)?



Coming...coming. Gotta organise my room first before I can slot my babies in. I know that there are rumours going around saying that my inclusion in this thread is a marketing ploy and I don't really have a pair but the truth shall be out. Need Labour Day to sort it out.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 30, 2009, 15:15
On a separate note... thanks for your advice.

I reconfigured the Benchmark DAC1 Pre to "calibrated" mode and inserted the Bel Canto Pre3 into the chain, hooking the (whatsthename) green XLR cables from Pre3 to the 2 REF1000s, and used the Silversmith Audio Silver XLR between the DAC1 to the Pre3.

Reconnected the Marantz SA8003 to Line 1 and the AVR pre-out to Line 5 (configured for HT Bypass mode).

How long does it normally take for the Pre3 to run in?

After all the comments abt the DAC1 not working well in DAC-only mode, I was a little worried, initially, but when I powered up the gear, I was very very happy with the sound. Despite use of silver cables, the overall sound was just slightly warmer with the Pre3.

Soundstage opened up a fair bit more and there felt like more extensions on either end of the spectrum. Because of late hour, didn't do a long and thorough listening session though.

I really like the remote. This is a newer remote so have buttons for dimming/turning off the display as well. Really convenient when you need to mute the volume in a hurry (like when wife walks out of study room to GLARE at the person responsible for the loud noise in the house haha)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 30, 2009, 15:19
Some other people's opinion on Thiel's in Audiogon. Enjoy. ;D
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1240778090 (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1240778090)

i fail in this category leh...
2. A big enough room for the drivers to integrate well at your ears, at least 8-10 feet away from your listening position.

so how? sell ah?  :'(  :'(  :'(  i believe getting any floorstanders will have the same issues.
dun think i can upgrade to bigger apartment liao. new HDBs are getting smaller. unless i buy back my mum's place living room at least 5mx5m type A 4 room.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on April 30, 2009, 15:44
i fail in this category leh...
2. A big enough room for the drivers to integrate well at your ears, at least 8-10 feet away from your listening position.

so how? sell ah?  :'(  :'(  :'(  i believe getting any floorstanders will have the same issues.
dun think i can upgrade to bigger apartment liao. new HDBs are getting smaller. unless i buy back my mum's place living room at least 5mx5m type A 4 room.

try bedok court? hahaha....maybe francis's neightbour is selling.... :D :D

if wanna sell, can contact hobbeslow....he might be interested....right bo bro?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 30, 2009, 16:00
haha, try out the diffusers first, you will never know as miracles can happen.............. :o

Unless you want to cough up enough cash, doubt neighbours willing to sell.  Last enbloc exercise only 48% wants to sell........... :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 30, 2009, 16:19
haha, try out the diffusers first, you will never know as miracles can happen.............. :o

Unless you want to cough up enough cash, doubt neighbours willing to sell.  Last enbloc exercise only 48% wants to sell........... :P

haha ok ok. will do.

good enough. i only need to contact the 1% of the 48% who wants to sell.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 30, 2009, 17:16
haha ok ok. will do.

good enough. i only need to contact the 1% of the 48% who wants to sell.  ;D

Living Room........... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 30, 2009, 17:32
i fail in this category leh...
2. A big enough room for the drivers to integrate well at your ears, at least 8-10 feet away from your listening position.

so how? sell ah?  :'(  :'(  :'(  i believe getting any floorstanders will have the same issues.
dun think i can upgrade to bigger apartment liao. new HDBs are getting smaller. unless i buy back my mum's place living room at least 5mx5m type A 4 room.

I think moving to living room is OK. Better if you can orientate the speakers so that there are side walls on either side (unlike mine)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 30, 2009, 17:58
Living Room........... ;D

haha. good one. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 01, 2009, 21:59
Where are YOUR pics ;)?

My toyz.... ;D
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 01, 2009, 22:52
How far apart are the 2 speakers? Looks less than 8 feet?

So what's the rest of the gear?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 01, 2009, 22:58
How far apart are the 2 speakers? Looks less than 8 feet?

So what's the rest of the gear?

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter
You can also see other stuff in there as have to find time to get them up and running.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 01, 2009, 23:22
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Source: Wadia iTransport, Squeezebox Duet feeding Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced Silversmith Silver interconnects), Marantz SA8003 SACD analog output (custom Valgrind Audio RCA)
PreAmp: Bel Canto Pre3 HT bypass for AVR (balanced output)
Power Amp: Bel Canto REF1000
Speaker Cables: QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/30af4w9.jpg)
(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2

7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets, 

9. DJQ
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/thiel.jpg)

Stereo: Thiel CS2.4, Cyrus CD 6s, Cyrus 6 vs2, Belden Studio 814, IeGO L70530 Power Cable w/pure copper 8055CT
G&W TW-D1000 Power Conditioner modded IeGO 24k Gold plate pure copper R301 socket


10. Jagdpanzer
Kimber 8TC driving Thiel CS2.4

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 01, 2009, 23:28
So in my case, would you recomment moving the two speakers closer so I can get more space from the side?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 01, 2009, 23:36
So in my case, would you recomment moving the two speakers closer so I can get more space from the side?



wah saw you got a nice rack for your gears... eh wheres mine pic  :'( ?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 01, 2009, 23:48
wah saw you got a nice rack for your gears... eh wheres mine pic  :'( ?

forgot to update the front page last time around. Amended ;P

sorry.

The rack was there a couple of weeks ago.. but the cables behind are a lot untidier than before :(

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 02, 2009, 03:10
haha, try out the diffusers first, you will never know as miracles can happen.............. :o

Unless you want to cough up enough cash, doubt neighbours willing to sell.  Last enbloc exercise only 48% wants to sell........... :P

its 3am. and the diffusers WORKED! different positions settle for different issues. 3hours of serious listening... tired. will write further over the weekend. damn. these are expensive room treatments. they are just 1inch taller then the CS2.4 no wonder so effective. now i am too scared to find spending $94 sponges from electrades will have any effects anot.

oh ya my DIY Silver interconnects ready. made only 0.5m but damn solid! details and separation further enchanced! i have never been so engaged on my listening before.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 02, 2009, 19:27
Got pics of the diffusers? :)

How big is it?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on May 03, 2009, 10:53
DIYer Straits,
I can suggest you move your rack behind the speakers or at least at the same plain as the speakers as in their current position they are bound to mess up the imaging.
Quote
you will notice a major improvement in openness when the speakers are even two feet from the rear wall instead of one. Ideally, we like to see the speakers three feet from the rear wall and five feet from the side wall. Also, it is not desirable for large objects to be placed near the speakers since these will also be a source of unwanted early reflections that reduce imaging accuracy.
Quote
Because of their very wide, even dispersion of energy, THIEL speakers should usually be placed farther apart than most. Optimum imaging is usually achieved when the speakers and the listener form an equilateral triangle
Quote
Optimum phase and time alignment is provided only for a seated listener who is eight or more feet away from the speakers.
Can I also suggest you toe-in a little. I  don't have 5ft from the side wall (a little less than 2 ft) so I toe-in a little, as recommended.
Quote
toeing the speakers in somewhat may produce more specific placements of instruments. Also, if it is not possible to get the speakers far enough away from the side walls, a toed-in position can be helpful to reduce the strength of wall reflections.
All the quotes are from the Thiel 2.4 Manual so its really nothing new, but it helps to follow.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 03, 2009, 13:12
Think DIYer is well aware but his setup is a WIP :) on account of a recent arrival of a bundle of joy. Plus he really needs to get rid of some of his "junk" behind his rack. I volunteer to relieve him of his tube pre and his tt hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 03, 2009, 23:26
Think DIYer is well aware but his setup is a WIP :) on account of a recent arrival of a bundle of joy. Plus he really needs to get rid of some of his "junk" behind his rack. I volunteer to relieve him of his tube pre and his tt hehe
You've only seen the front of the room. Makes you wonder whats in the back and sides, innit? ;D Much less the stuff flanking my 42" TV and my PC.
By the way, thats a cap coupled 6B4G preamp under the SME V mounted TD124 MkII.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 03, 2009, 23:30
DIYer Straits,
I can suggest you move your rack behind the speakers or at least at the same plain as the speakers as in their current position they are bound to mess up the imaging.Can I also suggest you toe-in a little. I  don't have 5ft from the side wall (a little less than 2 ft) so I toe-in a little, as recommended.All the quotes are from the Thiel 2.4 Manual so its really nothing new, but it helps to follow.


Hi Rab Paul,
Appreciate your suggestments but as DH puts it, it's still WIP. I've yet to do my diffusers and stuff. But the 7 Watter is surprisingly good considering that it was a lash up job. ;D Gotta wait for the little one to grow more independent before work can progress more than just the current slug's pace.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on May 03, 2009, 23:59
I've yet to do my diffusers and stuff. But the 7 Watter is surprisingly good considering that it was a lash up job.
IMO is premature to look at room treatment until you have placed your speakers, run them in and decided what needs attention.
Thiel recommends 100W @ 4Ohms minimum actually. Yes even a 3W will produce sound from the 2.4 but this will never allow the Thiel to achieve its full potential.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 04, 2009, 00:41
Hi Rab Paul,
Appreciate your suggestments but as DH puts it, it's still WIP. I've yet to do my diffusers and stuff. But the 7 Watter is surprisingly good considering that it was a lash up job. ;D Gotta wait for the little one to grow more independent before work can progress more than just the current slug's pace.

yo DIYer straits, does your room happen to be bigger or smaller than mine? i believe you are sitting further away?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 04, 2009, 09:39
I think DIYers speakers are already run in.

But he had to move it into this other room cos let's face it, the Thiels aren't baby-proofed ;) or is it that the baby isn't Thiel-proofed :D

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 04, 2009, 11:28
IMO is premature to look at room treatment until you have placed your speakers, run them in and decided what needs attention.
Thiel recommends 100W @ 4Ohms minimum actually. Yes even a 3W will produce sound from the 2.4 but this will never allow the Thiel to achieve its full potential.
Lets say that I know the Thiel CS2.4s character and performance like the back of my hand. I know what it is capable of in what environment. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 04, 2009, 11:30
yo DIYer straits, does your room happen to be bigger or smaller than mine? i believe you are sitting further away?
Bigger, dude. my width is 3.3m and depth is 4.5m. Sitting position will depend heavily on bass requirements.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 04, 2009, 11:31
I think DIYers speakers are already run in.

But he had to move it into this other room cos let's face it, the Thiels are baby-proofed ;) or is it that the baby isn't Thiel-proofed :D
Can't crawl yet but loves Brahm's Lullaby!  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 04, 2009, 11:34
Heads up, DH.
New addition to the clan. This is Hoseki's system comprising MCS1 for the Left, Right and Center with Bel Canto amps driving them. Also an SS2 for good meassure.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 04, 2009, 11:38
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables. 


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room.

Source: Wadia iTransport, Squeezebox Duet feeding Benchmark DAC1 Pre (balanced Silversmith Silver interconnects), Marantz SA8003 SACD analog output (custom Valgrind Audio RCA)
PreAmp: Bel Canto Pre3 HT bypass for AVR (balanced output)
Power Amp: Bel Canto REF1000
Speaker Cables: QED Revelation. AVR (Onkyo 875) is hooked up using AudioEngine's AW1 sender/receiver to Benchmark Pre's analog input.

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/30af4w9.jpg)
(taken with iphone camera so everything is grainy)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets, 

9. DJQ
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/thiel.jpg)

Stereo: Thiel CS2.4, Cyrus CD 6s, Cyrus 6 vs2, Belden Studio 814, IeGO L70530 Power Cable w/pure copper 8055CT
G&W TW-D1000 Power Conditioner modded IeGO 24k Gold plate pure copper R301 socket


10. Jagdpanzer
Kimber 8TC driving Thiel CS2.4

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 04, 2009, 11:39
Heads up, DH.
New addition to the clan. This is Hoseki's system comprising MCS1 for the Left, Right and Center with Bel Canto amps driving them. Also an SS2 for good meassure.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


Where're his CS1.2s?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 04, 2009, 12:11
At the sides doing surround duty.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on May 04, 2009, 13:16
Lets say that I know the Thiel CS2.4s character and performance like the back of my hand. I know what it is capable of in what environment. ;D
Sorry you must think who is this guy telling me about Thiels when in fact you probably know more.
We have met actually (I own a Pre3), I will say hello next time I visit Adephi.
The thing is many Thiel owners just don't follow the basic guidelines in the manual, so whatever I have mentioned is directed to all Thiel owners. If ever you get to KL let me know, you are most welcome to visit.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 04, 2009, 14:06
Sorry you must think who is this guy telling me about Thiels when in fact you probably know more.
We have met actually (I own a Pre3), I will say hello next time I visit Adephi.
The thing is many Thiel owners just don't follow the basic guidelines in the manual, so whatever I have mentioned is directed to all Thiel owners. If ever you get to KL let me know, you are most welcome to visit.

You haven't been to many Singapore pigeon holes in the skies, have you? :)

I was born in Malaysia too, and yes, we had space to burn when it came to setting up my dad's old system back home.

Back here.. not quite so easy :(

But even in less than optimal settings, I have to say the Thiels don't disappoint.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 04, 2009, 14:07
At the sides doing surround duty.

wah kao :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: crombie on May 05, 2009, 10:38
Hi all Thiel owners,

I have always fancied 2 makes for speakers, one is Thiel, the other is Sonus Faber. Would appreciate if Thiel owners here can give some inputs on the characteristic of these 2 makes, beginning with the basic floorstand model. Music genre would be pop vocalist.
 :) :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 05, 2009, 10:49
You haven't been to many Singapore pigeon holes in the skies, have you? :)

I was born in Malaysia too, and yes, we had space to burn when it came to setting up my dad's old system back home.

Back here.. not quite so easy :(

But even in less than optimal settings, I have to say the Thiels don't disappoint.



I wish I can use back my old room back in Malaysia for my Hifi! At least the walls are solid brick and not concrete prefab which resonates. The damping works twofold, reducing reflection as well as wall resonance.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 05, 2009, 11:13
Hi all Thiel owners,

I have always fancied 2 makes for speakers, one is Thiel, the other is Sonus Faber. Would appreciate if Thiel owners here can give some inputs on the characteristic of these 2 makes, beginning with the basic floorstand model. Music genre would be pop vocalist.
 :) :)

Quick summary of my impressions of my CS2.4
- great imaging
- wide soundstage
- very neutral
- very detailed
- the "coherent" mid/high driver makes the sound more "real" like you are there, and not playing a recording
- very revealing
- delivers deep and low-end bass but not "plentiful" bass (a reviewer, think it was John Potis, called it quality bass rather than quantity bass)
- metal drivers take abt 200+ hours to run in before they will even be listenable
- needs a lot of space to breathe
- very hard to drive, but with the right grunt, will deliver very great transients and micro dynamics

"Pop vocals" is a big genre and I think you are going to have some hits and misses. I found that some more modern albums were mixed by morons who compress the dynamic range so much, it's like listening to MP3s. A revealing setup like the Thiels may make the bad sound bad.

I listen to a lot of female vocalists (also contemporary) and I do like how the Thiels sound. There is not as much seductive warmth to the vocals, but it is detailed, so all the strings, background vocals etc do come out as clearly as the vocals. But if you crave just the vocals at the expense of details, the Thiels may not be right for you. I find B&Ws to sound sweeter for vocals alone.

What I am attempting to do is to add a "tube buffer" line out stage to my DAC to help with those badly mastered albums and to add some measure of warmth. My Benchmark DAC supports both balanced and RCA outputs. I am feeding the balanced output to the Pre amp now. So for well mastered songs, this is the way I will be playing. But for the not so well mastered ones, I want to run the RCA through something like a Musical Fidelity X-10v3 (out of production) or a Yaqin CD2 tube buffer and then feed them to a separate input on my pre-amp.

I know others use a tube pre- and a SS power amp to temper the sound, but I like the flexibility to add the warmth as and when needed ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 05, 2009, 11:28
Thats the reason why I fell in love with the CS2.4s. It's the speakers' relative transparency that allows me to pick and chose what components I can use in order to get the sound that I want. And I mean down to the resistor and capacitors in my various creations or as Audio surprising found out, even the speaker cables qualities will be told.
Warm sounding speakers like some British and Italian designs make EVERY recording sound good, EVERY component sound good and to me, that is not good. The Thiels may not be everyone's cup of tea but I want mine to be Darjeeling with a hint of mint. No sugar of course. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on May 05, 2009, 11:34
Can I ask - do any of you think the showroom is as good or better than your house?
Would it be a good representation of what the Thiels can do?
Just want to make sure all this things I'm hearing from you guys in the thread about the Thiels corelate to my actual experience.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 05, 2009, 11:41
Can I ask - do any of you think the showroom is as good or better than your house?
Would it be a good representation of what the Thiels can do?
Just want to make sure all this things I'm hearing from you guys in the thread about the Thiels corelate to my actual experience.

Good question. All loudspeakers heard in showrooms will sound different in different environment.
Bass is room dependent. Imaging is room dependent. Soundstaging is also room dependent. Assuming of course, the amplifiers dirving them to reasonable levels are relatively neutral as well. As with any "neutral sounding" loudspeakers, Thiels are equipment dependent. Once you get the "sound" that you want, be it warm or sweet, hard or lively, then the quality of your souce material is exposed. Thiels do not turn sows' ears into silk purses. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on May 05, 2009, 12:03
Good question. All loudspeakers heard in showrooms will sound different in different environment.
Bass is room dependent. Imaging is room dependent. Soundstaging is also room dependent. Assuming of course, the amplifiers dirving them to reasonable levels are relatively neutral as well. As with any "neutral sounding" loudspeakers, Thiels are equipment dependent. Once you get the "sound" that you want, be it warm or sweet, hard or lively, then the quality of your souce material is exposed. Thiels do not turn sows' ears into silk purses. ;D
Actually my question is because when I went to try the DAC3, maybe because it wasn't through the Pre, I did find the sound harsh to my ears.
I have always kind of liked the character of Thiels, but kind of feel they lack some refinement.
Haven't been back for 2nd listen as I wasn't looking for speakers. :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 05, 2009, 12:19
Actually my question is because when I went to try the DAC3, maybe because it wasn't through the Pre, I did find the sound harsh to my ears.
I have always kind of liked the character of Thiels, but kind of feel they lack some refinement.
Haven't been back for 2nd listen as I wasn't looking for speakers. :)
Well, in order to answer your questions, I have ask a few. What source were you listening to, the shop's CDs or yours? What other loudspeakers were you comparing the CS2.4s with? When I played my system, it exposed my badly compressed Earth, Wind and Fire Best of CD as being horrendous but EWandF's LP was brilliant. Same goes for my UB40 CDs and LPs. And this was through my little 7 Watter.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on May 05, 2009, 12:35
Well, in order to answer your questions, I have ask a few. What source were you listening to, the shop's CDs or yours? What other loudspeakers were you comparing the CS2.4s with? When I played my system, it exposed my badly compressed Earth, Wind and Fire Best of CD as being horrendous but EWandF's LP was brilliant. Same goes for my UB40 CDs and LPs. And this was through my little 7 Watter.
1. Source - using my own CDs, but I tried your digital source as well.. the olive? I have used my CDs in countless systems so think I have an ok comparison. In general, I have a Sara K and Van Cliburn CD that I like to use.

2. Loudspeaker comparisons - I use a Focal 1027Be at home, so maybe that gives an indication of the sound I like. I didn't hear the CS2.4 btw, I was hearing the CS3.7 in the main area.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 05, 2009, 12:49
1. Source - using my own CDs, but I tried your digital source as well.. the olive? I have used my CDs in countless systems so think I have an ok comparison. In general, I have a Sara K and Van Cliburn CD that I like to use.
Not all the songs in the Hard disk storage system are of audiophile quality and some are harsh but as to what you had used, well.... ::)

2. Loudspeaker comparisons - I use a Focal 1027Be at home, so maybe that gives an indication of the sound I like. I didn't hear the CS2.4 btw, I was hearing the CS3.7 in the main area.
The CS3.7s are more revealing than the CS2.4s.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on May 05, 2009, 13:54
Not all the songs in the Hard disk storage system are of audiophile quality and some are harsh but as to what you had used, well.... ::)
The CS3.7s are more revealing than the CS2.4s.

I ripped my refrence cantonese CD into my HTPC using FLAC and playback on Winamp thru HDMI.  The results I got is pretty good.  But when I pop this same CD into my Denon CD player and playback via Denon Link, the sound is so much more refined.  I am not longer interested in HDD storage anymore.

(Audio)

DIYer Straits - I will be picking up the passive unit tonight after work......
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 05, 2009, 14:09
I ripped my refrence cantonese CD into my HTPC using FLAC and playback on Winamp thru HDMI.  The results I got is pretty good.  But when I pop this same CD into my Denon CD player and playback via Denon Link, the sound is so much more refined.  I am not longer interested in HDD storage anymore.
(Audio)
You are comparing a Free Lossless Audio Codec which compresses .wav files versus CD??!! Have you tried saving that same CD into pure .wav files to compare?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 05, 2009, 14:16
Can I ask - do any of you think the showroom is as good or better than your house?
Would it be a good representation of what the Thiels can do?
Just want to make sure all this things I'm hearing from you guys in the thread about the Thiels corelate to my actual experience.

I didn't really listen to the 3.7s when they were in the stereo listening room.

But if I had to make a comparison to my 2.4s in the showroom now vs the one at home... it's
a. showroom has slightly tighter bass
b. showroom does not have the 50Hz boost like in my living room
c. showroom soundstage is better (mine is a bit narrower on the left due to the left wall/windows)
d. showroom image height is higher

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 05, 2009, 14:21
I ripped my refrence cantonese CD into my HTPC using FLAC and playback on Winamp thru HDMI.  The results I got is pretty good.  But when I pop this same CD into my Denon CD player and playback via Denon Link, the sound is so much more refined.  I am not longer interested in HDD storage anymore.

I compared Apple Lossless rips played through Duet Squeezebox with coax output feeding to Benchmark DAC1 to same CDs played on Marantz SA8003 coax output to same Benchmark DAC1.

With default settings, the Marantz coax output had better transients.

But the Duet's default settings also messed with the signal in IMHO two crucial ways:
a. there is a digital volume control
b. there is an automatic volume control (this ensures playback levels from different songs from different albums are normalized)

Disable both of these and the transients return.

I do not know abt the HTPC case but I suspect the jitter from the HDMI may be an issue. Plus the fact that the PC soundcard also acts as a (bad) pre-amp controlling the volume digitally.

DIYer Straits - I will be picking up the passive unit tonight after work......

Wah got simiholiao to test ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on May 05, 2009, 14:22
You are comparing a Free Lossless Audio Codec which compresses .wav files versus CD??!! Have you tried saving that same CD into pure .wav files are compare?

Yah, tried .wav also....sama sama.........ultimately it's PCM

Don't know what black magic Denon has on that Denon Link.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on May 05, 2009, 14:25

Wah got simiholiao to test ;)


It's good to be a Thiel owner.....tonight I will get back my Thiel passive crossover and do away with the Denon Bass Management altogether.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 05, 2009, 14:52
It's good to be a Thiel owner.....tonight I will get back my Thiel passive crossover and do away with the Denon Bass Management altogether.

(Audio)

Cool.

John Potis had very good results with that ;) but thot u'd go one up for the standalone Audyssey AutoEQ unit :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on May 05, 2009, 15:10
The CS3.7s are more revealing than the CS2.4s.

Too revealing for my liking...  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 06, 2009, 18:54
(crossposted/edited from the Yaqin tube buffer thread)

Managed to "borrow" a Yaqin tube buffer from a bro here today :P so cabot earlier today and came home to hook up the gear:

Here's how they are connected (not exactly for 1:1 comparison but allows easy A:B)

Duet coax - QED Silver Reference - Benchmark DAC1

Benchmark DAC1 balanced output - Silversmith Silver XLR 1m pair - Bel Canto Pre3 balanced input

Benchmark DAC1 RCA output
  -> QED Silver Reference (Audio Evolution) with Rhodium RCA connectors (2x0.5m)
    -> Yaqin CD2 (stock tubes) with iEGO basic power cord
      -> QED Silver Reference (Audio Evolution) with Rhodium RCA connectors (2x0.5m)
        -> Bel Canto Pre3 RCA input

Bel Canto Pre3 balanced output - Bel Canto REF1000 power amps - Thiel CS2.4

Can't say there's a day/night difference initially

Not sure if it is a placebo effect but I think there is a slight improvement in bass tautness with the tube buffer, slightly smoother vocals (not as edgy or bright) and some expansion of the soundstage. There's more detail in some electric guitars.

There is one song where the 50Hz room boost was very apparent but with the tube buffer in the loop, the boost is surprisingly more muted and more listenable :P

As I am now listening with a bigger repertoire of songs I notice the lower frequencies seems to be levelled off. Not sure if it is cos the tubes are also more "warmed up"?

Overall am quite happy with the difference and still get the flexibility to switch back when I want to :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 07, 2009, 19:16
(cross posted from Yaqin tube buffer discussion)

Played a bit more with the tube buffer today. I guess the best analogy I can use is with cars (hehe).

You can have 4 cylinder or V6 engine or a V8 engine in the car. That's like the DAC.

The tube buffer is like the exhaust part.

Try as I might, no matter how I cobble a freer flow exhaust on a twin turbo V6, it would never sound like my friend's F430's V8's naturally aspirated engine note :)

Similarly, the clean-ness and clarity of the Benchmark DAC1 doesn't go away completely with the tube buffer. It's still a detailed sound, but colored a little with the tube buffer. This coloration seems to affect the low end (not as pronounced) and it affects the transients a little.

The benefit is that the less pronounced low end makes the bass that remains sound tauter. And the smoothed out transients make the sound especially midrange frequencies (like vocals, sax etc) more smooth and less... well digital. Vocals and mids are bit more pronounced with good increase in details (due to the bass being de-emphasised)

Because the Thiels are so neutral, these changes are more apparent.

As a result of the coloration, what I've noticed is that there is a more focused image especially in the center. The soundstage gains width and depth and IMHO is a very nice effect.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on May 08, 2009, 10:31
Hi all Thiel owners,

I have always fancied 2 makes for speakers, one is Thiel, the other is Sonus Faber. Would appreciate if Thiel owners here can give some inputs on the characteristic of these 2 makes, beginning with the basic floorstand model. Music genre would be pop vocalist.
 :) :)



Thiel signature is a bit lean and brighter. Sonus Faber sounds fuller.

Both sounds excellent when paired with warm-sounding equipment.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on May 08, 2009, 11:56
Hi all Thiel owners,

I have always fancied 2 makes for speakers, one is Thiel, the other is Sonus Faber. Would appreciate if Thiel owners here can give some inputs on the characteristic of these 2 makes, beginning with the basic floorstand model. Music genre would be pop vocalist.
 :) :)


It help a lot if you would identify which Thiel and which Sonus Faber as well as which amp (even source) your plan to use. IMO Thiels are unforgiving when it comes to poorly recorded material and Pop Genre is really not the best candidate for good recordings. You often hear people say Thiels are bright but really they only reflecting your choice of upstream components.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on May 17, 2009, 09:27
Just installed 2 bass trap (tuned for 40Hz) from bro Joamonte.  See the before and after room response of the 2.4.   ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/basstrap.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 17, 2009, 11:22
woah!!! pictures of the bass trap?
been wanting to call him up. but always busy thru-out the night.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on May 17, 2009, 13:23
woah!!! pictures of the bass trap?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG1018.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 17, 2009, 16:00
whoa. double stack. tought should open abit on the sliding vents to adjust the bass level. so yours is all closed?  ::)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on May 17, 2009, 19:03
Slightly opened.  Not too obvious from the photo angle.  Needed 2 to tame the super nasty 40Hz peak.

The 2 graphs were before and after opening the gap.  If compared to original without the bass traps, the 40Hz reduced by more than 10dB!  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on May 26, 2009, 03:20
Slightly opened.  Not too obvious from the photo angle.  Needed 2 to tame the super nasty 40Hz peak.

The 2 graphs were before and after opening the gap.  If compared to original without the bass traps, the 40Hz reduced by more than 10dB!  :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/basstrap.jpg)

and not to forget the dip cause by 1L room mode cancellation in 55Hz have flatten by 5dB too....

So the Frequency response below 100Hz have improved from very bad +/- 11dB  to a impressive +/- 3dB !!!   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on May 26, 2009, 03:25
whoa. double stack. tought should open abit on the sliding vents to adjust the bass level. so yours is all closed?  ::)

The door is to adjust the center of adsorbing frequency, the smaller the gap, the lower this bass trap adsorb.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on May 27, 2009, 20:11

those of you who listen to depeche mode and have thiel speakers, maybe you can help me out on this.

if you have any DM albums  from Songs of Faith & Devotion or earlier, listen to it. Then listen to any DM albums post Alan Wilder, ie Ultra, Exciter, PTA & SOTU.

i just have this feeling that the album production, be it recording or even the CD produciton, is just not as good as it used to be.

Am i right?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 27, 2009, 20:26
I recall seeing DM on SACDs in Amazon. Been tempted to get them but haven't seen locally :( need to find where my old DM CDs are :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on May 27, 2009, 20:32

doggie,

i have all the DM SACDs. Unfortunately no SACD player. :(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 27, 2009, 20:41
doggie,

i have all the DM SACDs. Unfortunately no SACD player. :(

Where did u get them? Wait till my program has been launched. Come over and listen at my place and we can discuss this degradation in quality :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on May 27, 2009, 21:11
Where did u get them? Wait till my program has been launched. Come over and listen at my place and we can discuss this degradation in quality :)

doggie,

got some from amazon,some from HMV. thanks for the offer, that's really cool of you.  :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 27, 2009, 22:12
doggie,

got some from amazon,some from HMV. thanks for the offer, that's really cool of you.  :D

No worries man ;) Would be fun...

Need a break from all this work, man!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 14:35
Have been using QED Revelations speaker cables. And whilst it worked great for the old B&W601S2s, I have gradually come to realize it was a limiting factor in my setup after replacing other QED silver plated cables. 

Last night, tested the Synergistic Research Alpha speaker cables that Audio is also using. It is actually comparable in price to the QED Revelations! Actually it is CHEAPER! And was amazed. A couple of times, I have remarked that my headfi gear was more detailed with some of my songs. But it looks like the QED was the source of the choke. With the Alpha, the bass was punchier. Definitely better for Rock material. And there was just so much more clarity and detail. Damn.

It still sounds a bit bright but less so than the QED.

May have to try a pure silver cable :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on May 29, 2009, 15:01
May have to try a pure silver cable :)

Then it may sound even brighter than before due to the characteristic of silver......

I didn't like the spring jack for the Alpha cables so I went and bought Furutech bananas to replace them soon.  They ran out of stock for the cheaper version of WBT bananas at Yodobashi Akiba.....

(Audio)

(http://audio.sg/pic/furatechbanana.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 29, 2009, 15:26
wah nice furutech banana jacks you got there.

actually not exactly true on Pure silver being bright. by now i have research a fair bit on Silver wires. the purity of the Silver content IS very important. the purer the content the less bright it becomes. with everything else(imaging/Focus/transparency) improving by a notch. most standard silver is about 4N & below, worst are those that are only Silver plated.

i have yet to terminate my IeGO pure Silver spk wires. rating is 6N. maybe we can have a listen to them when i find time to complete them over the weekend.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on May 29, 2009, 15:54
wah nice furutech banana jacks you got there.

actually not exactly true on Pure silver being bright. by now i have research a fair bit on Silver wires. the purity of the Silver content IS very important. the purer the content the less bright it becomes. with everything else(imaging/Focus/transparency) improving by a notch. most standard silver is about 4N & below, worst are those that are only Silver plated.

i have yet to terminate my IeGO pure Silver spk wires. rating is 6N. maybe we can have a listen to them when i find time to complete them over the weekend.  :)

Maybe you should not terminate them. Just use them bare wire unless you have the same purity silver plugs as your cables. Else the purity will be compromised.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 16:09
Then it may sound even brighter than before due to the characteristic of silver......

Actually that's a common misunderstanding.

When I switched from silver plated copper QED interconnects to the HGA silver interconnects, it was actually less bright. Sound was also smoother.

Anyway... gotta return the Alpha soon ;) Can't wait to test the silversmiths!

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on May 29, 2009, 16:37
This is the only part of the hobby I hate.....

Try and try and try.....buy and buy and buy......and you still don't know what kind of sound you will be getting.....

(Audio)

I need more time to listen to my music, not trying tweaks and snake oil remedies.

BTW, I am trying out a load of re-issues CDs in SHM-CD and Blu Spec CD formats.....sigh.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jayou on May 29, 2009, 16:53
Sorry to jump in like dat.  Do you mind a mini-review once you listen to them please?  I like to find out if all the hype on Blu Spec CD worth it?  Thanks.

BTW, I am trying out a load of re-issues CDs in SHM-CD and Blu Spec CD formats.....sigh.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on May 29, 2009, 16:54

I need more time to listen to my music, not trying tweaks and snake oil remedies.

This is what i'm doing for the past weeks... lol
Tired & frustrated from trying too many things in a short period...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 29, 2009, 17:24
Maybe you should not terminate them. Just use them bare wire unless you have the same purity silver plugs as your cables. Else the purity will be compromised.

wah... like that abit over kill liao. i got gold plated bannana jacks. if dun terminate. the silver will oxidise over time leh. pure silver banana jack???  :o ok i am dumb founded.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on May 29, 2009, 17:48
This is the only part of the hobby I hate.....

Try and try and try.....buy and buy and buy......and you still don't know what kind of sound you will be getting.....

(Audio)

I need more time to listen to my music, not trying tweaks and snake oil remedies.

BTW, I am trying out a load of re-issues CDs in SHM-CD and Blu Spec CD formats.....sigh.....


Going vinyl will solve all your problems............ ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 17:52
Actually haven't tinkered much with my setup in a few weeks. It's just that I tend to listen to the same tracks on both by hifi and headfi gear so easy to make comparisons. Plus I also get to hear the showroom set as a gold standard.

I am slowly trying to recreate the same signature on my hifi gear.

Also found I have been getting new CDs and particularly SACDs. Just picked up Harry Belafonte at Carnegies LPCD45. Not sure what that means. But I did hear the real LP version a couple of weeks ago. Also got Sheffield Drive which was playing at New Disc Village just now.

  Can't wait to go back tonite.  
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 20:31
Wife had dinner with friends which gave me the opportunity to hurry home and play with my toys hehe.

I have to say, the Silversmith are kinda fiddly to install. These are flat ribbon cables with no banana plugs, no spades, just plain old silver ribbon. Looks kinda fragile but even with a fair amount of shoving around to move the cables into the rack around the back, they were really resilient. Definitely tougher than it looks. Like what the reviews say..

I am playing this now :)

(http://www.malmusic.com/images/cover/88697424482.jpg)

Heard this on LP a couple of weeks ago at a friend's place and subsequently saw this being sold as an LPCD which piqued my interest...

While I am not a Belafonte fan, the live recording is just amazing. There's an "almost there" presence, in part because Belafonte maintains a damn good rapport with the audience.

Listening to this setup now at home on the weird CD format, I feel the Marantz SA8003 definitely does a pretty good job reproducing it. Without doing a proper A:B comparison (friend's gear is totally different - LP with Goldman DAC/integrated amp driving Stella Harmony) so this is purely from "memory", I have to say the CD does a pretty good approximation of the LP, right down to the slight hiss hehe. Soundstage is good.. with a nice depth to the stage and there is a nice "air" to it.

Gotta go back to my regular tracks to see how the SIlversmith cables stack up. hehe.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 20:42
Couldn't resist tinkering a bit more.

Pumped the Marantz coax output to the Benchmark DAC.

First listened to the Benchmark decoding of the Belafonte LPCD (balanced output to the Preamp). Didn't like it. Benchmark was too neutral and while clear, seemed to rob the LPCD of its "live" quality.

Then I powered up the Yaqin CD2 (fed through the Benchmark's RCA output). And wow. Better. More three dimensionality. Smoother and better soundstage.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 21:05
I *heart* Silversmith Audio.

Put in my regular playlist on the Squeezebox Duet while it belts out my more familiar tunes (direct unadulterated XLR output from the Benchmark to the pre/power).

There's a more pronounced, punchier bass line that took me a little by surprise. I used to think the Thiels were too polite for rock, but with the Silversmith, the Thiels now have a lot more street cred with Bon Jovi!. Had a good time reuniting with the the band on this setup even though the recordings aren't all that great (and the Thiels reveal that too hehe);)

Compared to the QED Revelations, the Silversmiths are definitely offering more clarity.. slightly wider soundstage with a better "air" and live feel.

I think the QEDs are just a really bad match for the Thiels.

Audio, if you think the Alphas were a nice step up from the Monster.. wait till you try the Silversmiths..

Feeling nostalgic, started hunting down GNR ;) I dunno when was the last time I heard November Rain, but listening to it for the first time on my current gear, it's like a totally different song.WTF!! What have I been missing?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on May 29, 2009, 21:30
wait till you try the Silversmiths..
Is it a good idea to spend as much as half or more of the cost of your Thiels on speaker cables?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 29, 2009, 21:47
I have found that cables make a huge difference in headfi. I spent almost 2x the price of the Livewires custom IEM to get the Crystal cables and never regretted it. IMHO, the Crystal/Livewires combo was even more impressive than the pricier UE11Pro in terms of clarity and detail. There was a huge veil lifted off the Livewires. My Senn HD650 custom cables cost abt 1/2 the price of the cans and was worth every penny.

For hifi, I think the guidelines for cables/cords/interconnects are about 20% of the other components which is about what the Silversmiths bring it to.

From what I recall, the Stereophile review of the Silversmith Silver speaker cables partnered it with speakers of comparable price range as mine. In fact, the reference cables the reviewer was using (Nordost Valhalla) was even pricier than the Silversmiths ;)

And Audio's system? way pricier than mine hehe.





Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Jagdpanzer on May 29, 2009, 22:53
I'm looking for a pair of factory terminated cables to go with my 2.4. I am currently using Kimble 8TC and Belden balanced cables. Any recommendation below $800 for 2m pair? Prefer transparency with solid bass.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 30, 2009, 00:57
I'm looking for a pair of factory terminated cables to go with my 2.4. I am currently using Kimble 8TC and Belden balanced cables. Any recommendation below $800 for 2m pair? Prefer transparency with solid bass.

Prior to getting the Silversmith, I was also looking at HGA. HGA also uses pure silver (am a big fan of the silver sound now...)

http://homegrownaudio.com/hga/x16.htm
http://homegrownaudio.com/hga/x32.htm

The X32 is US$900 for 6 ft pair.

The X16 is slightly cheaper US$680 for a 6 ft pair.

These come factory terminated. Might be slightly cheaper if you get it locally terminated.

The X16 is slightly higher than your original budget. Can get the cables from AVIT in SLS. I have gotten my HGA from him before but he doesn't have the speaker cables in stock at the moment. Need to order again.

I haven't tested the HGA speaker cables before, but when I compared the Silversmith Silver XLR to the HGA Silver Lace RCA (both driven by Benchmark) to the pre-amp, I found they had similar properties. Smoother sound, good soundstage, clear. Tight bass. Compared to silver plated copper, there's a slight loss of detail but definitely less sibilant and bright.

Alternatively, can try PMg DJQ. He mentioned he has some lobang for IeGo silver speaker cables ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 30, 2009, 01:01
wah... like that abit over kill liao. i got gold plated bannana jacks. if dun terminate. the silver will oxidise over time leh. pure silver banana jack???  :o ok i am dumb founded.

Silver oxide is still a good conductor.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 30, 2009, 01:05
Picked this SACD up today

(http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/28280000/28282654.jpg)

The first half of the album were already in my various CDs, but the second half consisted of songs I hadn't heard before.

In particular, her cover/duet of All The Way with Frank Sinatra was very very very good. The second half of the songs seemed to have been mastered specifically for the SACD so the quality seemed better too.

Only downside is that it is a pure SACD disc. No hybrid CD layer :( so can't rip into iTunes for my portable gear. Aaaaargh. It does have a multichannel layer. hehe can't wait to try it out on the Oppo.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on May 30, 2009, 18:24
For hifi, I think the guidelines for cables/cords/interconnects are about 20% of the other components which is about what the Silversmiths bring it to.
From what I recall, the Stereophile review of the Silversmith Silver speaker cables partnered it with speakers of comparable price range as mine. In fact, the reference cables the reviewer was using (Nordost Valhalla) was even pricier than the Silversmiths ;)
And Audio's system? way pricier than mine hehe.
There is no guideline as to what the cost of your speaker cables should be. I use Analysis Plus Oval 8 which I think are pretty exorbitant coming close to 25% of the Thiels, but then I felt the Thiels deserve the best that I could afford. You probably think the same way. All I am suggesting is there has to be some resonableness when it comes to speaker cables, they just cannot be more expensive than any other component in your system. BTW Monster and QED are just not in the same class as the Thiels.
As for the reviewer, its expected for him to have the best cables he can lay his hands on given the quality of speakers he will review.

I'm looking for a pair of factory terminated cables to go with my 2.4. I am currently using Kimble 8TC and Belden balanced cables. Any recommendation below $800 for 2m pair? Prefer transparency with solid bass.
I have used Kimber 4TC for many many years and still use them for my sub. IMO you won't find anything better in the price range you are looking at. Do audition first before you part with your money. Beldon's don't belong in any system with Thiels like the other brands mentioned above. Do look at better interconnects, you may even prefer something from Kimber.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 30, 2009, 19:44
There is no guideline as to what the cost of your speaker cables should be. I use Analysis Plus Oval 8 which I think are pretty exorbitant coming close to 25% of the Thiels, but then I felt the Thiels deserve the best that I could afford. You probably think the same way. All I am suggesting is there has to be some resonableness when it comes to speaker cables, they just cannot be more expensive than any other component in your system. BTW Monster and QED are just not in the same class as the Thiels.
As for the reviewer, its expected for him to have the best cables he can lay his hands on given the quality of speakers he will review.
I have used Kimber 4TC for many many years and still use them for my sub. IMO you won't find anything better in the price range you are looking at. Do audition first before you part with your money. Beldon's don't belong in any system with Thiels like the other brands mentioned above. Do look at better interconnects, you may even prefer something from Kimber.

One of my friend's runs a pretty expensive Kimber speaker cable that costs more than his current set of speakers. He's planning to get the Harbeth 30th Anniversary next and I think the cable still costs more ;)

I had the QEDs left over from my old setup (Quad606 with B&W601S2s) and I never realized how much of a limitation that was.

As for budgets, I do agree that the 20% is merely a guideline. I know of guys who wouldn't blink about spending 6 figures on cables, interconnects, power cords and conditioners which is about the same cost as their existing gear.

I think the point is, there's always going to be a limiting factor in your setup. Getting the Silversmith just meant that the limiting factor is somewhere else now. I could have upgraded the REF1000s to Mk II for slightly more money, but I feel the money wouldn't have been justified while the QEDs were still in the system. Luckily, I managed to get a pre-owned set of Silversmiths for a bit more than what the HGA X32s would have cost me to import.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 30, 2009, 23:48
Picked this SACD up today

(http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/28280000/28282654.jpg)

The first half of the album were already in my various CDs, but the second half consisted of songs I hadn't heard before.

In particular, her cover/duet of All The Way with Frank Sinatra was very very very good. The second half of the songs seemed to have been mastered specifically for the SACD so the quality seemed better too.

Only downside is that it is a pure SACD disc. No hybrid CD layer :( so can't rip into iTunes for my portable gear. Aaaaargh. It does have a multichannel layer. hehe can't wait to try it out on the Oppo.



i got the normal CD version. but SACD? wow, so it comes with multi channel? recently got a SACD mega movies soundtrack by Telarc / Cincinnati pops orchestra. Quest has got me listening into more complicated music genre, so trying some orchestra music while still going for tracks that i like.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 30, 2009, 23:58
I'm looking for a pair of factory terminated cables to go with my 2.4. I am currently using Kimble 8TC and Belden balanced cables. Any recommendation below $800 for 2m pair? Prefer transparency with solid bass.

hi bro. interested to get this? silver rating 6N. i have onhand 10metres. you want to be the 1st to try? at 2m pair it costs only $400 just bare wire alone. i havent got time to cut and terminate yet. DIYstraits mentioned not to terminate them so might be trying them bare 1st.

New Item!!! Iego 7 x 0.5mm PUM Pure Silver Wire ( can be use for speaker wire or interconnect )
( Priced at $50 for 1metre )
Produce from official silver mine of Swiss Bank Silver coins - Norway Kongsberg Silver Mine
EHPLC - OCC Uni-Crystal Pure Silver
US Military Standard UV-Cut Polycarbonate Jacket
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/sss.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Jagdpanzer on May 31, 2009, 00:17
Thanks DJQ. Where is your cable from and what's the brand?Please  pm me your contact so that I can try a pair. I always find silver strands a tad bright. That's why I replace my Kimber Silver Streak interconnects with Belden because of the brightness from solid state setup. I'm curious what cables
Thiel use  for their lab or demo.    
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 31, 2009, 00:27
Thanks DJQ. Where is your cable from and what's the brand?Please  pm me your contact so that I can try a pair. I always find silver strands a tad bright. That's why I replace my Kimber Silver Streak interconnects with Belden because of the brightness from solid state setup. I'm curious what cables
Thiel use  for their lab or demo.    

er perhaps you didnt see the info i posted. brand is IeGO. made in Taiwan. silver mined from Norway. hehe.
whats the brand of the last silver you tried? this one has 7 strands of 0.5mm. very solid core pressed.

oh bro you need spk wires or interconnects?

IeGO 7 x 0.5mm PUM Pure Silver Wire ( can be use for speaker wire or interconnect )
Produce from official silver mine of Swiss Bank Silver coins - Norway Kongsberg Silver Mine
EHPLC - OCC Uni-Crystal Pure Silver
US Military Standard UV-Cut Polycarbonate Jacket
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 31, 2009, 00:31
Thanks DJQ. Where is your cable from and what's the brand?Please  pm me your contact so that I can try a pair. I always find silver strands a tad bright. That's why I replace my Kimber Silver Streak interconnects with Belden because of the brightness from solid state setup. I'm curious what cables
Thiel use  for their lab or demo.    

A lot of "silver" branded cables are actually silver plated copper cables. That explains the brightness.

I have found that good silver cables aren't bright ;)

http://www.stereophile.com/accessoryreviews/605silversmith/

Other silver options you can consider are Audio Magic. MusicLinkAV was having a sale of an entry level silver cable but it was a bit too short for my requirements.

http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buysell2/YaBB.pl?board=hifi&action=display&num=1243664261&start=0

Quote
Model: Excalibur 2 silver interconnect
UP:$400.00/each. Now:$299.00/1.0m each.
Length available:1.0m
Quantity available: 2 pairs left

Model: Excalibur 2 silver speaker Cable
UP:$1200.00/pair. Now:$699.00/1.8m pair.
Length available:1.8m
Quantity available: 1 pair left

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 31, 2009, 00:37
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/inter.jpg)

pure silver core using 2x the orginal of the IeGO 7x05mm speaker cable. RCA jacks is pure Silver plated.
this is my personal demo piece which is only 0.5m definitely not bright at all. in fact very enaging.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 31, 2009, 00:41
i got the normal CD version. but SACD? wow, so it comes with multi channel? recently got a SACD mega movies soundtrack by Telarc / Cincinnati pops orchestra. Quest has got me listening into more complicated music genre, so trying some orchestra music while still going for tracks that i like.  :)

Yeah Telarc was also one of the pioneers of the CD genre. I am still trying to remember if my first CD was Telarc's Star Tracks (Kunzel with the Cinc Pops) or Madonna's True Blue ;)

I haven't found an SACD from Telarc which had the Star Track's brilliant compilation.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 31, 2009, 00:45
this is my personal demo piece which is only 0.5m definitely not bright at all. in fact very enaging.  :)

Bro, you can try the rhodium over silver LOK RCA plugs from HGA. AVIT also has them ;)

(http://www.homegrownaudio.com/images/silverpoint.jpg)

LOK™ Silver Point RCA 7.5mm $24.90 each  

The ultimate RCA connector! Features a center contact pin machined from hard drawn 4-nines solid silver rod. Its beautifully machined connector body is first plated with solid silver and then replated using high purity rhodium. Count on this premium locking barrel design to provide a secure connection in any system. Extra-heavy Teflon insulation is used throughout. Down to its laser-etched logo, this connector was designed for the ultimate in performance.

HGA also has similar grade banana/spade connectors for speaker cables

(http://www.homegrownaudio.com/images/bfa_rhod.jpg)

(http://www.homegrownaudio.com/images/spade_rhodgrip.jpg)


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: user053009 on May 31, 2009, 00:51
Hi, just to share personal experience regarding speaker cables.

As someone posted earlier, for an audiophile, there is no set % range for cables, whatever opens up the "spigot" for all associated components to get the most pristine signals to the transducer is what will work. That said, here are some things I have discovered.

After collecting a high-res system (incl. the CS3.7), I tried cables ranging from Tara Labs' The Zero to Cardas to MIT to Nordost Valhalla to Monster to heavy gauge Belden (US 8-, 10-gauge) cables. These were all loans from dealers of course. Each switch in cable type resulted in immediate sonic changes, some bad, some surprisingly good. This experience showed the importance of using a high quality cable.

I will suggest that when possible, try to compare a high quality heavy gauge (US 8, 10) cable against another more specialized speaker cables. If there are no audible differences, then there is no need to spend more than necessary.

Happy Listening!







 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 31, 2009, 00:59
Another reviewer who had to endure the torment of running in ;)

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue43/thiel.htm

Perhaps to add on to user053009's comments... do the cable audition/swaps after running in ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on May 31, 2009, 01:16
Hi Doggie,

Must share with you something today...:-)

Likewise, I had originally subscribed to the 20% budgeting guideline for cables, where my thinking centered upon key components (i.e. source, pre-amp, amp, speakers) to produce the most cost-effective returns for high fidelity sound. Afterall, the logic of paying S$5k for an amplifier vs S$1k for an speaker cable, should be reasonable, considering the plethora of embedded electronics, switches, etc, once can see in an amplifier (c.f. just strands of cabling).

I guess this forms a rational and logical basis, especially for newbies (without any pre-existing equipment), to embark on one's Hi-fi journey.

But today, was a special day for me...  ::) :o

As it so happened, about a week ago, I was most privileged to have purchased a set of Nordost Valhalla power cords from an audiophile (with years of experience and $$$$$$ of equipment), where after the initial transaction, we kinda became friends and he offered to help me tweak / find out the weakest link in my system...  ::) :P

Today, he brought over some of his "spare" cables and accessories to try and realize the full potential of my components. This included a S$8k power conditioner, vibration reduction / isolation cones, Crystal Dreamline and Ultra interconnects, Audionote's top-line silver speaker cables, Crystal Dreamline and Reference power cords, etc. The cables and power cords alone, would have cost me around 1.5 times the cost of my Hi-fi components... :o :-*

We put in one cable / accessory at a time. Each time, I could hear a noticeable improvement in fidelity. By the end of the session, when all the cables / accessories were in, I could only marvel at the sound I was getting with my system. The soundstage was much larger than I had ever heard before, the background dead quiet, audio dynamics and crispness was there with full-bodied penetration, and it was as if the speakers had disappeared, but sound was coming from everywhere. It was a total transformation to my system and not simply an improvement - achieved merely by changing out the cables / cords predominantly (i.e. power delivery and signal communication), albeit to much higher-grade ones. Previously, I would have thought such dramatic improvement could only be derived through changing out components, considering my original cables are already decently spec-ed!  Personally, it was simply euphoric to savor and revel in how good my system could sound with simply upgrading the cabling...

So with today's performance, I have been converted to confess wholeheartedly, that cables are just as important as each individual component... ::) :D ;) Do note that I'm not implying that one needs to spend more / as much in cabling vs components, but simply that one should regard both cables and components in the same category of importance - the pursuit of returns is for cables that perform as well as, or only just short of, much higher-priced ones...  

Speaking with him after the session, he revealed how many people often overlook the importance of cables and simply splurge $$$ on new components, expecting revelatory changes in the process. More often than not, if one already has decent components, they usually don't form the bottleneck to good fidelity, and are already more than capable of produce some amazing sound. Cables are often under-estimated, and classified as an unappreciated tweak. Especially for power cables, he recommends to get the best, simply because once you purchase them, you probably can keep them for years to come with other component upgrades in the future. I think this is because good clean power delivery isn't as sensitive as interconnects, that require proper matching and power delivery doesn't affect the sonic signature as much...

Oh well...Think my next upgrades will be centered on getting some good cables... :-X ;) :)

Just sharing my experience.... :)

I have found that cables make a huge difference in headfi. I spent almost 2x the price of the Livewires custom IEM to get the Crystal cables and never regretted it. IMHO, the Crystal/Livewires combo was even more impressive than the pricier UE11Pro in terms of clarity and detail. There was a huge veil lifted off the Livewires. My Senn HD650 custom cables cost abt 1/2 the price of the cans and was worth every penny.

For hifi, I think the guidelines for cables/cords/interconnects are about 20% of the other components which is about what the Silversmiths bring it to.

From what I recall, the Stereophile review of the Silversmith Silver speaker cables partnered it with speakers of comparable price range as mine. In fact, the reference cables the reviewer was using (Nordost Valhalla) was even pricier than the Silversmiths ;)

And Audio's system? way pricier than mine hehe.






Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 31, 2009, 01:29
Bro! You sound very poisoned! hehe...

So what did you get in the end? Heh.. what you paid for your pre-owned Nordost Valhalla power cord could have bought me the pre-owned Silversmith with a lot of change! ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 31, 2009, 01:30
Bro, you can try the rhodium over silver LOK RCA plugs from HGA. AVIT also has them ;)

(http://www.homegrownaudio.com/images/silverpoint.jpg)

LOK™ Silver Point RCA 7.5mm $24.90 each  

The ultimate RCA connector! Features a center contact pin machined from hard drawn 4-nines solid silver rod. Its beautifully machined connector body is first plated with solid silver and then replated using high purity rhodium. Count on this premium locking barrel design to provide a secure connection in any system. Extra-heavy Teflon insulation is used throughout. Down to its laser-etched logo, this connector was designed for the ultimate in performance.

HGA also has similar grade banana/spade connectors for speaker cables

(http://www.homegrownaudio.com/images/bfa_rhod.jpg)

(http://www.homegrownaudio.com/images/spade_rhodgrip.jpg)




Damn DH, now i gotta go buy all the Pure Solid Silvers!!!  >:(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Jagdpanzer on May 31, 2009, 09:42
Do you have the website of leGO silver cables. I kept getting Lego bricks in Google and Yahoo. A published  review of the cables will be nice.
 

er perhaps you didnt see the info i posted. brand is IeGO. made in Taiwan. silver mined from Norway. hehe.
whats the brand of the last silver you tried? this one has 7 strands of 0.5mm. very solid core pressed.

oh bro you need spk wires or interconnects?

IeGO 7 x 0.5mm PUM Pure Silver Wire ( can be use for speaker wire or interconnect )
Produce from official silver mine of Swiss Bank Silver coins - Norway Kongsberg Silver Mine
EHPLC - OCC Uni-Crystal Pure Silver
US Military Standard UV-Cut Polycarbonate Jacket

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 31, 2009, 10:39
Do you have the website of leGO silver cables. I kept getting Lego bricks in Google and Yahoo. A published  review of the cables will be nice.

the letters (in lower case) are i e g o

first letter is not not lower case 'L'

even so, you'd be hard pressed to find mainstream reviews of this brand. Most are just WTS ads. I think it is a hobbyist/DIY cable.

There is a review of the power cords in headfi forums.

There was a noticeable improvement upgrading from the stock power cords to the iego power cords in my setup (I changed 5 at one go). As for the speaker cables, have not seen any reviews. If you are serious, sometimes it's worth bringing in as much as your current gear to the seller's place (to test the gear). The easiest is to bring just the component you want to replace (eg speaker cables) and swap between yrs and the one you are considering.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Kopi on May 31, 2009, 11:09
Quote
I use Analysis Plus Oval 8 which I think are pretty exorbitant coming close to 25% of the Thiels

Good choice. I have tried the Nordost Red dawn, Cardas Golden reference..but in the end, I am still sticking to Analysis Plus Oval 8. Factory fabricated 12m run pair.   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on May 31, 2009, 12:10
the letters (in lower case) are i e g o

first letter is not not lower case 'L'

even so, you'd be hard pressed to find mainstream reviews of this brand. Most are just WTS ads. I think it is a hobbyist/DIY cable.

There is a review of the power cords in headfi forums.

There was a noticeable improvement upgrading from the stock power cords to the iego power cords in my setup (I changed 5 at one go). As for the speaker cables, have not seen any reviews. If you are serious, sometimes it's worth bringing in as much as your current gear to the seller's place (to test the gear). The easiest is to bring just the component you want to replace (eg speaker cables) and swap between yrs and the one you are considering.





thanks for the explaination. yes there isnt any reviews on the IeGO PUM 7 silver spk wires yet. the name pops up here n there but there never is a proper review. well if anyone is keen for a A/B comparison i am ok. but bro Jagdpanzer, i will be cutting only 1.5m pair for my thiels, i dun need that long. we can arrange for a listen, after which i can order another 8m for your 2m pair requirements. have pm you my contact. let me know then.

the URL is Iego.com.tw only traditional chinese web. i gotta translator to loosely translate the whole page.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on May 31, 2009, 12:29

wymun,

interesting post.

my view is this: all the $$$ we spent on "better" cables, the main purpose is to lower the floor noise and to bring out as original as the recording is intended to be.

anything component that adds colouration be it brightness or warm  to it is distorting it liao.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: user053009 on May 31, 2009, 14:28
Quick note on Nordost cables, at least with my gear and my ears.

All Nordost models prior to SPM were so-so. Models like Red Dawn and Blue Heaven sounded thin and on the bright side. The SPM had good transparency, decent openness and great speed but top end was not airy, mids were a tad lean and bottom end a bit tight. Still, it was the first Nordost cable that sounded good. There was a model that came after SPM Reference (before Valhalla) and I forgot its name. That one addressed the top end brightness by being a bit dull but it got the mids and the bottom end right. Unfortunately, music overall became laid-back because the duller top killed off the attack and the decay. Nordost Valhalla was the first Nordost cable that got it all together. From top to bottom, the Valhalla is coherent, fast and transparent. It is airy, delicate and absolutely transparent with dense soul-ripping mids and at the same time let through gut-thumping accurate low notes. The Thiels CS3.7, after break-in, sound great with these cables. Unfortunately, the Valhalla wants an arm and a leg.

The best cable I have heard was the Tara Labs' The Zero. What that cable did to my old non-Thiel speakers was a miracle. I could almost "see" the separation of orchestra sections right in front of my seat. The Zero shows that cables, in some cases, are more important than buying expensive speakers. Good cables and top notch upstream gear can make decent speakers sing. Of course, the Zero wanted US$15,000 at the time, way out of my range.

I hope this can save you some time in cable research.

Happy listening!

[Addendum: The model after SPM Reference was the "Quattro Fil"; just found the name on-line.]

[Update: All but one of the above cables were tried with CS1.6, 2.4, 3.7 and SCS4. The Zero was not used with CS3.7, SCS4 and never will. The 1.6 and 2.4 trials were done about eight years ago and the 3.7 and SCS4 trials were done last year (2008). The components used were Audio Research CD2, LS-25 and VT200. We used matching interconnects and speaker cables and all interconnects used XLR's.]


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on May 31, 2009, 18:33
This thread now seem to be about cables. :P
Yesterday I had a mini-shootout with a forumer who brought some cables along.. now I forget the brands but there was pure silver in there as well.

I don't recall any big names.. but the interesting thing is that my anticables still stood out among the rest, even vs the other solid core copper cable trialed (although they both shared similar characteristics).
What this means to me is.. specs is one thing, but the actual product is another.
I guess this is why we still need reviews and personal experience to properly assess a product.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Jagdpanzer on May 31, 2009, 21:34
I think we should have cables shoot out only on Thiel speakers only. Otherwise, we end up with too many variables.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: user053009 on June 01, 2009, 01:21
I think Thiels are often misunderstood by many, so cable matching is most likely an approrpriate discussion.

Many often try Thiels with lower quality solid state gear and poor quality cables resulting in thin, shrill and ear-splitting noise. They then blame the speakers and proclaim how wonderful their previous speakers were. This problem is becoming a bit more pronounced as Thiel is also selling through mass market on-line retailer like Crutchfield in the US. I heard a set of SCS4's played through an old Pioneer AV amp (vintage 2002?) with a cheap Panasonic DVD player (2000?) and a set of lamp cord thin cables. It was horrible and my friend was unhappy and wanted to sell the SCS4's. I finally loaned him my spare thick Belden cables (10-gauge US) and the sonic characteristic immediately improved 100%. The mid and bottom showed up though the top was still bad.

That one cable swap made him appreciate the importance of cables, not just components and speakers. He is looking to upgrade components now to match his brand spanking new SCS4's :).
 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 01, 2009, 01:35
This thread now seem to be about cables. :P
Yesterday I had a mini-shootout with a forumer who brought some cables along.. now I forget the brands but there was pure silver in there as well.

I don't recall any big names.. but the interesting thing is that my anticables still stood out among the rest, even vs the other solid core copper cable trialed (although they both shared similar characteristics).
What this means to me is.. specs is one thing, but the actual product is another.
I guess this is why we still need reviews and personal experience to properly assess a product.

Quest... try my IeGO PUM silver spk wires. i'll make a 1.5m pair for all to assess.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on June 01, 2009, 09:23
Hi,

Thanks for the info. I also had earlier bought a set of entry level Nordost Shiva powercord, and though it produced some open, clean and dynamic sound, it lacked body and sounded too "digital".  The Valhallas were much better. I actually tried them on my system before agreeing to buy...:-)

For now, I'm quite taken by the Crystal powercords and interconnects, though the Ultras and especially the Dreamlines, cost an arm and a leg as well (think in the range of S$3 to S$6k for a set)...I'm fortunate to have been able to actually test them out in my own system, which uses the Cabasse Bahias (instead of Thiel speakers by the way), so now the question being whether I'm willing to pay that much for the improvement...:-)

Will also be sampling some ASI cables, when it gets here, before making my decision...;-)

Quick note on Nordost cables, at least with my gear and my ears.

All Nordost models prior to SPM were so-so. Models like Red Dawn and Blue Heaven sounded thin and on the bright side. The SPM had good transparency, decent openness and great speed but top end was not airy, mids were a tad lean and bottom end a bit tight. Still, it was the first Nordost cable that sounded good. There was a model that came after SPM Reference (before Valhalla) and I forgot its name. That one addressed the top end brightness by being a bit dull but it got the mids and the bottom end right. Unfortunately, music overall became laid-back because the duller top killed off the attack and the decay. Nordost Valhalla was the first Nordost cable that got it all together. From top to bottom, the Valhalla is coherent, fast and transparent. It is airy, delicate and absolutely transparent with dense soul-ripping mids and at the same time let through gut-thumping accurate low notes. The Thiels CS3.7, after break-in, sound great with these cables. Unfortunately, the Valhalla wants an arm and a leg.

The best cable I have heard was the Tara Labs' The Zero. What that cable did to my old non-Thiel speakers was a miracle. I could almost "see" the separation of orchestra sections right in front of my seat. The Zero shows that cables, in some cases, are more important than buying expensive speakers. Good cables and top notch upstream gear can make decent speakers sing. Of course, the Zero wanted US$15,000 at the time, way out of my range.

I hope this can save you some time in cable research.

Happy listening!

[Addendum: The model after SPM Reference was the "Quattro Fil"; just found the name on-line.]

[Update: All but one of the above cables were tried with CS1.6, 2.4, 3.7 and SCS4. The Zero was not used with CS3.7, SCS4 and never will. The 1.6 and 2.4 trials were done about eight years ago and the 3.7 and SCS4 trials were done last year (2008). The components used were Audio Research CD2, LS-25 and VT200. We used matching interconnects and speaker cables and all interconnects used XLR's.]



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on June 01, 2009, 09:45
Yeah boy...Kenna poison bad... ??? :-X :-[

But the session wasn't meant to entice me to buy more stuff, cos the chap actually keeps those spare cables for his own tweaking / benchmarking purposes (heheh..his "spare" setup already costs more than my main components' setup!) and aren't typically on sale...

But the personal satisfaction I derived was really how good my own setup could sound, when fully optimized. Many a times, I believe we don't mind spending on a purchase, just that we want to be sure that it works in our own system, to match or exceed the level of returns expected (i.e. money well-spent). Will be sampling a few more cables to try before deciding on my course of action. Guess this period will give me time to consolidate my thoughts and also plan for how I should re-arrange my equipment.... :o :D

In any case, if really wanna "tio" poison, he actually invited me to his place to listen to his setup. He's now evaluating the Siltech Emperor speaker cables (trialing in his system since CNY), and he's still undecided whether to pay S$40+k for those pair of speaker cables alone!!  :o 8) :-*

Bro! You sound very poisoned! hehe...

So what did you get in the end? Heh.. what you paid for your pre-owned Nordost Valhalla power cord could have bought me the pre-owned Silversmith with a lot of change! ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Kopi on June 02, 2009, 15:08
Quote
In any case, if really wanna "tio" poison, he actually invited me to his place to listen to his setup. He's now evaluating the Siltech Emperor speaker cables (trialing in his system since CNY), and he's still undecided whether to pay S$40+k for those pair of speaker cables alone!!

Unless we all have unlimited cash, this search for the "ultimate sound" will always lead us to a point where the "law of diminishing returns" sets in. Every upgrade, every new component you add to improve the system has a price. Whether it has the equivalent SQ improvement is always the tough answer.

So be it a speaker cable or an interconnect, the speakers or the source, bare in mind that it is the $$ that you spent that counts. If I can have the same level of SQ improvement either by swapping an interconnect or changing the power amp with the same $, then to me there is no difference. Either one will work. The only thing you need to consider is the resale value of the "cable" or the "amp". Some may command better value then others.

 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 02, 2009, 15:33
I think it's going to be tough to use ROI as the basis of this hobby. :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on June 02, 2009, 16:06
Heh...as I mentioned in my first post, my pursuit is for cables that can perform as good / nearly as good as the much more expensive ones. Hence, I'm still holding out for comparative trials with other cables, before deciding eventually.

As per the economist's saying, "Price is what you pay, but Value is what you get"...:-)

Notwithstanding, I think like many, unless I had personally tried those cables in my own rig, I would have remained a skeptic about the difference / how far highly-speced cables could transform one's system. Now that I have, that remains a personal benchmark to attain, but hopefully at a more cost-effective price point...

But my own take-away is that cables should be respected and treated in the same league as other system components, since afterall, they form an indispensible part of the high-fidelity chain, from the initial source to the final output...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Jagdpanzer on June 04, 2009, 20:59
Certainly agree on importance of resale value unless I am really rich. Resale  value of the cables certainly play a big part in determining all my purchase. A pair of speaker cables may sound good on my system but if the price is significant and the brand is unknown, I may not consider it because of resale value.



So be it a speaker cable or an interconnect, the speakers or the source, bare in mind that it is the $$ that you spent that counts. If I can have the same level of SQ improvement either by swapping an interconnect or changing the power amp with the same $, then to me there is no difference. Either one will work. The only thing you need to consider is the resale value of the "cable" or the "amp". Some may command better value then others.

 

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 15, 2009, 21:37
now i am using this both. will do a short A/B.

(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/palladium.jpg)
IeGO pum silver 7x0.5mm spk wires with Palladium plated pure 6N silver metal spades

(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/gold.jpg)
Belden studio 814 terminated with 24k gold plated viablue banana jacks.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on July 15, 2009, 23:04
Bro, can let me try the silver cable next week!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 16, 2009, 00:04
Bro, can let me try the silver cable next week!!

sure. just the silver wires. i think the silver spades too exp to consider. 1.5m or 2m?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on July 16, 2009, 09:14
sure. just the silver wires. i think the silver spades too exp to consider. 1.5m or 2m?

Need your terminated silver cables, think 2 meters...for testing on a new amp.......... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Darthfunk on July 16, 2009, 12:23
Need your terminated silver cables, think 2 meters...for testing on a new amp.......... :D

New toy again? :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on July 16, 2009, 14:48
New toy again? :o

No, not mine.  One of the forumers........... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: pawpet on July 19, 2009, 20:55
Just placed an order for Thiel 1.6 and SR cables. Can any thiel owners advise me on what their set up is? What CD player will match well? I like rich warm vocals and listen to lots of jazz and jazz vocals.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on July 19, 2009, 21:31
Hi pawpet,

Congratulations on your purchase of the 1.6.

I drive my 1.6 with either a Hypex UCD400 or a Copland CTA-401 (Ultralinear push pull EL34 tube amp, 45 watts per channel).

Thiels are quite neutral, so if you want warmth and a fuller sound, you have to tune it via your amp and source. A tube amp will do well but I don't recommend it for everyone because tubes aren't for everyone, and the power limitations may not suit those that listen very loud or like to listen to rock and pop, or large scale classical works.

The Hypex works very well with the 1.6 and you can consider the Channel Islands D100 or D200. For source, I think CEC may fit your bill. I have a TL-51XR which I enjoy very much.

Oh yes, if you didn't consider it, the optional outrigger feet improve the sound by a large degree.

Just placed an order for Thiel 1.6 and SR cables. Can any thiel owners advise me on what their set up is? What CD player will match well? I like rich warm vocals and listen to lots of jazz and jazz vocals.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 19, 2009, 21:59
Just placed an order for Thiel 1.6 and SR cables. Can any thiel owners advise me on what their set up is? What CD player will match well? I like rich warm vocals and listen to lots of jazz and jazz vocals.
Congratulations and welcome to the brotherhood! May I ask what amplifier are you using/will you be using to drive the speakers? We have a variety of owners here using a plethora of amplifiers ranging from DIY setups (like yours truly) to really exotica mucho dinero stuff. The rule of thumb is to get an amp to drive the speakers properly (to the loudness levels that you want without distorting) and then get the source to your liking.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 19, 2009, 22:21
Just placed an order for Thiel 1.6 and SR cables. Can any thiel owners advise me on what their set up is? What CD player will match well? I like rich warm vocals and listen to lots of jazz and jazz vocals.

Just take your time and run in the speakers first ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on July 20, 2009, 14:01
Just placed an order for Thiel 1.6 and SR cables. Can any thiel owners advise me on what their set up is? What CD player will match well? I like rich warm vocals and listen to lots of jazz and jazz vocals.

Try an Astin Trew. I heard they allow home audition.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 10, 2009, 03:50
i revamped my setup. got rid of the cheapo ikea rack which is bad for CDPs. overall bigger improvement after using the S300 and DAC1. the 3910 is standby for SACD playback. i am thinking to move my AVR into the room for a multi chn test...
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/new.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jazzi on August 10, 2009, 09:33
Hi Hi,

Can anyone with the Thiel 1.6 advise what amp to match in order to get warm full bodied sound with great soundstage and musiciality? I am thinking of getting a new amp, costing about 3-4K. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on August 10, 2009, 10:13
i revamped my setup. got rid of the cheapo ikea rack which is bad for CDPs. overall bigger improvement after using the S300 and DAC1. the 3910 is standby for SACD playback. i am thinking to move my AVR into the room for a multi chn test...
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/new.jpg)

Bro, is green your fav color or your wife!!!........... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 10, 2009, 12:38
Bro, is green your fav color or your wife!!!........... ;D

nah neither, my fav color is blue in fact. green was what fengshui master told me to use.  :P my whole house is green but i use different tones to bring out the effect.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: matty on August 10, 2009, 13:09
is that a tube amp on the left side of the picture?  :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 10, 2009, 15:07
Can anyone with the Thiel 1.6 advise what amp to match in order to get warm full bodied sound with great soundstage and musiciality? I am thinking of getting a new amp, costing about 3-4K. Any suggestions?

Thiel 1.6s are easier to drive than the 2.4s. I'd still get one with sufficient juice and rated for 4ohm operation. Best bang for the buck right now is probably Class D (wyred4sound is good value) or emotiva. For the warmth, try a tube pre-amp. There are some really good MIC ones like the Mingda that francis is using.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 10, 2009, 15:10
i revamped my setup. got rid of the cheapo ikea rack which is bad for CDPs. overall bigger improvement after using the S300 and DAC1. the 3910 is standby for SACD playback. i am thinking to move my AVR into the room for a multi chn test...
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/new.jpg)

Do you notice any problems with the speakers being this close to the side wall? That's probably the configuration I am thinking of running :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on August 10, 2009, 17:43
i revamped my setup. got rid of the cheapo ikea rack which is bad for CDPs. overall bigger improvement after using the S300 and DAC1. the 3910 is standby for SACD playback. i am thinking to move my AVR into the room for a multi chn test...
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/new.jpg)

Should place the power amp on the floor too..... ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jazzi on August 10, 2009, 19:51
Thiel 1.6s are easier to drive than the 2.4s. I'd still get one with sufficient juice and rated for 4ohm operation. Best bang for the buck right now is probably Class D (wyred4sound is good value) or emotiva. For the warmth, try a tube pre-amp. There are some really good MIC ones like the Mingda that francis is using.




Thanks. Has anyone tries the Astin Trew AT2500+ and the AT3500+ with their Thiel?? Please tell me the result if you have.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 10, 2009, 22:25
is that a tube amp on the left side of the picture?  :P

haha yupz. Mingda MC-7R. loaned from Francis to try. Cai Qin sings really with Soul going thru it. as with all audiophile voices. but not so much so with Celine Dion...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 10, 2009, 22:37
Do you notice any problems with the speakers being this close to the side wall? That's probably the configuration I am thinking of running :)

the main problem would be the side reflections, that will be corrected with Joamonte's diffusers. going to spend some time diying them. overall the soundstage really opened up. but some might say the spks are placed way too close to listening position, stage is too close like you are in front row. i feel that can be corrected by switching off the lights in total darkness and eyes closed. that imaging can be just like in a bigger room. of coz adeqate room treatment must be done to further achieve the level. main thing to correct the 45hz bass level problem for small room, is to sit closer before the 45hz shoots up.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on August 11, 2009, 01:52
Got some sound absorbing panels from the show coming in next week.  You can try them and see whether they can improve your listening pleasure.......... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jazzi on August 11, 2009, 06:41
Thiel 1.6s are easier to drive than the 2.4s. I'd still get one with sufficient juice and rated for 4ohm operation. Best bang for the buck right now is probably Class D (wyred4sound is good value) or emotiva. For the warmth, try a tube pre-amp. There are some really good MIC ones like the Mingda that francis is using.





Thanks for response. Where can I find the wyred4sound or emotiva amp? Someone also mentioned hypex UCD400 and Copland LTA-401 or Channel Islands D100 ? Where can I find all of these amps? Also for tube pre amp, what output voltage should I be looking for? And where can I find them? Also, is there a tube pre amp with HT bypass?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on August 11, 2009, 08:41
Thanks for response. Where can I find the wyred4sound or emotiva amp? Someone also mentioned hypex UCD400 and Copland LTA-401 or Channel Islands D100 ? Where can I find all of these amps? Also for tube pre amp, what output voltage should I be looking for? And where can I find them? Also, is there a tube pre amp with HT bypass?


All info found in my class d thread..
emotiva is ordered directly online.
wyred4sound at raindrop audio.
hypex ucd400 is via online from EAM (singapore)
channel islands is from musiclink av.

if u like tube sound, can view redwineaudio at raindrop also. the ayon cdp there is also worth a listen.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on August 11, 2009, 09:56
DJQ,

If you are placing the speakers like 3 ins from the sides walls, why must you move the speaker so forward, like 4 ft from the rear wall??  They moved them after the Joamonte session?

(Audio)


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 11, 2009, 10:40
i believe you missed by explaination. yes they are moved after the session.  :)  for Stereo setup it is so. for HT/5.1 no no.

the main problem would be the side reflections, that will be corrected with Joamonte's diffusers. going to spend some time diying them. overall the soundstage really opened up. but some might say the spks are placed way too close to listening position, stage is too close like you are in front row. i feel that can be corrected by switching off the lights in total darkness and eyes closed. that imaging can be just like in a bigger room. of coz adeqate room treatment must be done to further achieve the level. main thing to correct the 45hz bass level problem for small room, is to sit closer before the 45hz shoots up.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on August 12, 2009, 11:08
Can anyone with the Thiel 1.6 advise what amp to match in order to get warm full bodied sound with great soundstage and musiciality? I am thinking of getting a new amp, costing about 3-4K. Any suggestions?
Warm is not something you would normally associate with Thiel as they are neutral so if thats what you want it has to come from the amp.
Listen to Jolida e.g JD502BC or a higher model or even their hybrids http://www.fastlogic.com.sg/audio.php#amplifiers (http://www.fastlogic.com.sg/audio.php#amplifiers) and see if you can arrange for a home trial.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jazzi on August 12, 2009, 11:56
I came across the astin trew AT2000+ with no connecting power (something like that) @ 85W (4ohmn) and 65w (8ohm) . What is this no connected power equivalent to ? can this amp drive my thiel 1.6?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on August 12, 2009, 12:51
DJQ,

If you are placing the speakers like 3 ins from the sides walls, why must you move the speaker so forward, like 4 ft from the rear wall??  They moved them after the Joamonte session?

(Audio)




This is the original older position about 3 feet from back wall , +/- 14 dB
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/joamonte/Room%20Mea/djq1.jpg)

This is the current position about 1/2 way of the length of the room. +/- 10 dB
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/joamonte/Room%20Mea/djq2.jpg)

Current position reduced the one tone bass effect (trigger by the 44Hz 1L room mode)....off course its better if DJQ able to use some bass trap to tame the 44hz peak.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 12, 2009, 13:29
well... yeah, i was thinking why not build a bass trap into the right side where my shelves are... possible?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on August 12, 2009, 13:34
well... yeah, i was thinking why not build a bass trap into the right side where my shelves are... possible?

Of course possible... :)

(http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq358/RKL_76/IMG_0236.jpg)
(http://i463.photobucket.com/albums/qq358/RKL_76/IMG_0243.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 12, 2009, 13:51
I came across the astin trew AT2000+ with no connecting power (something like that) @ 85W (4ohmn) and 65w (8ohm) . What is this no connected power equivalent to ? can this amp drive my thiel 1.6?

FWIW, for a 85db/W/m setup means that if you are seated, say 3m away, all you need is 3W to deliver 85dB.

So in DIYer Straits's system, even a 6W tube amp could drive the Thiels. As long as the amp is rated for 4ohm loads.

But I think a lot also depends on the type of music you listen to and the type of sound qualities you listen out for... if you like transients and dynamics, having more power on reserve often helps the speakers cope with reproducing the type of pace and dynamics and transients.

If possible, try to get a home audition. Alternatively sometimes, it might be possible for the dealers to loan some of the gear to do a test in the showroom.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 12, 2009, 15:14
wah nice....  :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Charcoal on August 12, 2009, 17:46
hi guys,

do you all listen quite loud from yr thiels ?

i mean, at a level so that you can hear all the music / instruments details.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 12, 2009, 18:11
hi guys,

do you all listen quite loud from yr thiels ?

i mean, at a level so that you can hear all the music / instruments details.

I found that I listen louder with my records than with most of my RedBook stuff.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 12, 2009, 21:45
hi guys,

do you all listen quite loud from yr thiels ?

i mean, at a level so that you can hear all the music / instruments details.

yeah usually only on audiphile tracks and intrumental classicals then will play slightly louder.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on August 13, 2009, 17:05
I came across the astin trew AT2000+ with no connecting power (something like that) @ 85W (4ohmn) and 65w (8ohm) . What is this no connected power equivalent to ? can this amp drive my thiel 1.6?
Never Connected is a brand of isolation transformer.http://www.never-connected.com/ (http://www.never-connected.com/)
The minimum recommended for the 1.6 is 50W @ 4 Ohms. If you use any amp below this rating the 1.6 will not perform at its best.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 14, 2009, 19:05
Never Connected is a brand of isolation transformer.http://www.never-connected.com/ (http://www.never-connected.com/)
The minimum recommended for the 1.6 is 50W @ 4 Ohms. If you use any amp below this rating the 1.6 will not perform at its best.
I'd rather get a 10W amp which is clean than a 100Watter which sounds rough. Thiels, as with many well designed loudspeakers, prefer clean power more than brute power. I wouldn't drive it with a cheap MIC 50W tube power amplifier nor a sub $500 Jap integrated. It will tell on the Thiels, and you will hate it.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on August 19, 2009, 21:42
Hi Bro/Sis

I have a question, hope someone can help

If I want to upgrade my CS2.4. What speaker should I get.

I am using Plinius 102Mk2 power amp, Interga 9.8 as pre and Marantz S14 ver2 SACD/CD player. Like to listen to all kind of music, Cantonese pop, chinese pop, new age and some classical.

I am looking for B&W 802 or CS3.7. Any suggestion? Range about 15K.

Upgrading the Power & Pre will be the next step.

Thank you
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 19, 2009, 21:46
Here's a "tangential" upgrade path...

:) get a turntable.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 19, 2009, 22:47
Hi Bro/Sis

I have a question, hope someone can help

If I want to upgrade my CS2.4. What speaker should I get.

I am using Plinius 102Mk2 power amp, Interga 9.8 as pre and Marantz S14 ver2 SACD/CD player. Like to listen to all kind of music, Cantonese pop, chinese pop, new age and some classical.

I am looking for B&W 802 or CS3.7. Any suggestion? Range about 15K.

Upgrading the Power & Pre will be the next step.

Thank you

bro... if you are on cs2.4, most likely you will prefer CS3.7 . as some might say the UK style spks are very reserved in their sound. only suggestion is for you to really hear and audit both to see which you like and want to change to. the 802 has a very huge footprint, as compared to CD3.7 with its sleek fine curves and smaller area...  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on August 19, 2009, 23:33
bro... if you are on cs2.4, most likely you will prefer CS3.7 . as some might say the UK style spks are very reserved in their sound. only suggestion is for you to really hear and audit both to see which you like and want to change to. the 802 has a very huge footprint, as compared to CD3.7 with its sleek fine curves and smaller area...  ;D

Thank you for your advice.

However, I have heard the CS3.7, impressive. However, I have also heard B&W802 with different setup and more expensive gear. So to my own preference, I am a little more to B&W, but it would be the expensive gear that make the different. So maybe some bro here which has owned or experience with CS3.7 and B&W 8xx can share some of their view.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 20, 2009, 00:00
I suspect that showrooms with great treatments could make the whole experience more involving than our setups at home that aren't as well treated acoustically.

Maybe you could explain what is it you liked about the B&W setup.

If it is warmth that you like, I think the B&Ws are naturally strong in that sonic trait.

Thiels with a tube pre like the Lamm can also lend some of that warmth but if it is warmth you like, I think the B&Ws will have it in spades.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on August 20, 2009, 00:37
Thank you for your advice.

However, I have heard the CS3.7, impressive. However, I have also heard B&W802 with different setup and more expensive gear. So to my own preference, I am a little more to B&W, but it would be the expensive gear that make the different. So maybe some bro here which has owned or experience with CS3.7 and B&W 8xx can share some of their view.



wah not bad... you managed to hear a 802. i would love to hear them someday. yes your assessment is correct, your current gear might not be able to bring out what you heard. i think we have a few bros on CS3.7 that can share with you. i feel only a minority few like me and DH had experince on 2.4 and 804s. 802 is really double on the price point so be even prepared to spend more than required to attest what you have heard. But some bros might be already be bias to Thiels wont even try B&W.

i know someone who got a pair of 804s recently so hoping to dropby his place someday for a listen in a very well treated room environment  :) 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Charcoal on August 20, 2009, 17:45
Thank you for your advice.

However, I have heard the CS3.7, impressive. However, I have also heard B&W802 with different setup and more expensive gear. So to my own preference, I am a little more to B&W, but it would be the expensive gear that make the different. So maybe some bro here which has owned or experience with CS3.7 and B&W 8xx can share some of their view.


One should lock in their target speakers (your preferred signature sound), then to build/upgrade the other components around it.

As you are planning to change the other gears, with that type of budget, I suppose there are a lot more options out there then just limited to Thiel and B&W (though I like both of them too)

Unfortunately, unlike other places e.g. HK, that more than one shop selling the same brands/models and you can audit different combinations under one roof and one after another.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on August 20, 2009, 18:04
I suspect that showrooms with great treatments could make the whole experience more involving than our setups at home that aren't as well treated acoustically.

Maybe you could explain what is it you liked about the B&W setup.

If it is warmth that you like, I think the B&Ws are naturally strong in that sonic trait.

Thiels with a tube pre like the Lamm can also lend some of that warmth but if it is warmth you like, I think the B&Ws will have it in spades.




Yah....definitely. Showrooms always very well-tuned.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on August 21, 2009, 14:09
Yah....definitely. Showrooms always very well-tuned.

Yes, totally agreed.

I have heard the B&W 802D with full Mcintosh gear also B&W803D with full Manartz setup. Both in Tokyo. As for CS3.7, I heard in S.D. showshop in Singapore. The gear behind the speaker and a well tuned room play a very important role.

I am looking at a pair of solid state power and pre amp to drive the speakers. However, this will come later after I change my current pair first.

If I have a chance to go back to Tokyo, I will audit the B&W 8xx again.

Thank you
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on August 21, 2009, 14:35
I am using Plinius 102Mk2 power amp, Interga 9.8 as pre and Marantz S14 ver2 SACD/CD player. Upgrading the Power & Pre will be the next step.
It looks to me you are blaming the Thiel 2.4 for your choice of amplification. Those other systems I am guessing had amplification (with cables and power conditioning) far better than what you own. My suggestion is for you to upgrade your amplification first keeping the B&W and Thiel in mind. You may just find that your Thiel 2.4 is not that bad after all.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 21, 2009, 22:05
Finally got to see DIYer Straits' WIP room ;)

Still amazed how his simple 6Watter tube integrated managed to drive his 2.4s.

I was also a little sceptical about his use of granite between the floor and the speakers but on closer inspection, there's a whole lot of other small hidden tweaks in the placement as well, and even the rack's apparent "incorrect"placement was a planned one.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on August 21, 2009, 23:38
Finally got to see DIYer Straits' WIP room ;)

Still amazed how his simple 6Watter tube integrated managed to drive his 2.4s.

I was also a little sceptical about his use of granite between the floor and the speakers but on closer inspection, there's a whole lot of other small hidden tweaks in the placement as well, and even the rack's apparent "incorrect"placement was a planned one.



Wow....that is very highly skilled, I must pay a visit if have chance...any photo?? :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 26, 2009, 01:50
Clarity Caps, here I come...!!!!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 26, 2009, 09:48
Clarity Caps, here I come...!!!!!

So you found the secret ingredient for the SEs? ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 26, 2009, 19:07
So you found the secret ingredient for the SEs? ;)
Yup. Courtesy of Thiel themselves, whether they know it or not.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 26, 2009, 19:09
Wow....that is very highly skilled, I must pay a visit if have chance...any photo?? :)
Dude, you'd be surprised as to the extent of the "skills" employed in order to obtain the resultant performance of the 2.4s constrained by boundaries which, they are residing.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on August 28, 2009, 13:51
Dude, you'd be surprised as to the extent of the "skills" employed in order to obtain the resultant performance of the 2.4s constrained by boundaries which, they are residing.  ;D

haha.....understand now....that make me even more want to see a photo of it..... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on August 29, 2009, 22:26
The suspense is killing me. Which line of Clarity Caps. Any other secret mods ?

Was quite surprised to see that the 1.6 uses unbranded MKT caps. I remember even my old 1.2 uses Solen.

Yup. Courtesy of Thiel themselves, whether they know it or not.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on August 30, 2009, 02:47
haha.....understand now....that make me even more want to see a photo of it..... ;D

Yes! Pic Pic! I a fan of Thiel.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on August 30, 2009, 21:49
So, if i stick clarity caps into the x-over of my CS 1.6, I am going to get a 1.6 SE version.?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 30, 2009, 23:08
So, if i stick clarity caps into the x-over of my CS 1.6, I am going to get a 1.6 SE version.?



No, but you'll definitely get a Thiel CS1.6 BE (Bolts Edition) Serial Number 001/001
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 30, 2009, 23:10
Yes! Pic Pic! I a fan of Thiel.  ;D

Haiya, your fingers lazy to move mouse, izzit? See first post lor... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on August 30, 2009, 23:21
lol.. paiseh. saw that. alot of BC stacking up!  ;D How abt yours?  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on August 31, 2009, 00:18
Scroll down the first post and look under DIYer Straits. Sheesh!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on August 31, 2009, 00:54
saw it liao.  ;D nice tube.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: lowkenny on September 04, 2009, 18:01
Hi Clitang,

Nearly missed your post on the intention to upgrade your speaker..Glad that you do have interest in B&W..

You are invited to drop by our showroom anytime to listen to the B&W 802D again. <==I will drive with my Arcam AVR 600...

Ohh..yah...Just want to let you know that the B&W 802D has a full score rating (20/20) in: http://www.hifinews.co.uk :)

This is actually what they said in the review that " There are better speaker in Bowers and Wilkins range...but I will go on the record as saying that the new 802D is the best value high end speaker in the world" :)

And then there they go again " Bowers and Wilkins makes bigger speaker than the 802D's but this is DIAMOND TWEETERED floorstanders may just be it's best ever" :)

By the way, if you want to consider the B&W CM9 floorstander's as well.<==Only $4,500 (before GST)..Opsss prices revealed.. :D

Just a piece of information that the B&W CM9 is rated as a 5 STAR loudspeaker in HiFi Choice as well. and not to forget that this speakers also won the EISA EUROPEAN LOUDSPEAKER AWARD 2009-2010 category!! :)

With soo much of the awards..from the experts review of course..I do personally think that won't be wrong.. :D

Till then take care and do look forward from you to pay us a visit.. :D

Cheers.
KNY

Hi Bro/Sis

I have a question, hope someone can help

If I want to upgrade my CS2.4. What speaker should I get.

I am using Plinius 102Mk2 power amp, Interga 9.8 as pre and Marantz S14 ver2 SACD/CD player. Like to listen to all kind of music, Cantonese pop, chinese pop, new age and some classical.

I am looking for B&W 802 or CS3.7. Any suggestion? Range about 15K.

Upgrading the Power & Pre will be the next step.

Thank you
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on September 04, 2009, 20:54
Kenny, read thread title.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on September 04, 2009, 20:55
I've never done this before and never will.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 04, 2009, 21:58
I have to say thanks to bro DIYer Straits.

First of all, for his advice that I shd save my moolah and go for the REF1000 MkII upgrade. Now that I have got everything all set up at home and can make a better comparison, I have to say, it was long overdue. The REF1000 won rave reviews when it was first launched and even a tubey afficianado like the late John Potis was won over. I found it hard to imagine how much better it could be. Well, it could be. And the answer was the Mk II. Thank goodness Mk I owners were not left in the cold :)

Second of all, for repairing my Thorens and telling me not to squander the moolah on a midrange TT when there was still potential in the old TD125. And that was what made the MkII upgrade possible! Tks again, bro!!

The first thing I noticed when I put in Bali Run (it's now my reference cos I have heard it quite often in a few other showrooms) was WOW. The details that I noticed in the PerfectWave setup was now in my home setup... still not a match for the Dynaudio Temptations setup that Nick demo-ed the other but I didn't expect it to :) Then again, I doubt my tiny living room could fit the Temptations, as tempting as they are. Nor could my budget ever stretch that far ;)

But playing back some of my more favourite tracks revealed an increase in depth and width in the soundstage. I think this is what makes me smile the most.  there was also a noticeable increase in the height of the soundstage..

Will be running in the gear a bit more... and posting my impressions.

I can now imagine what Audio felt like when he "borrowed" the REF1000MkIIs home for Christmas hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on September 04, 2009, 22:36
I have to say thanks to bro DIYer Straits.

First of all, for his advice that I shd save my moolah and go for the REF1000 MkII upgrade. Now that I have got everything all set up at home and can make a better comparison, I have to say, it was long overdue. The REF1000 won rave reviews when it was first launched and even a tubey afficianado like the late John Potis was won over. I found it hard to imagine how much better it could be. Well, it could be. And the answer was the Mk II. Thank goodness Mk I owners were not left in the cold :)

Second of all, for repairing my Thorens and telling me not to squander the moolah on a midrange TT when there was still potential in the old TD125. And that was what made the MkII upgrade possible! Tks again, bro!!

The first thing I noticed when I put in Bali Run (it's now my reference cos I have heard it quite often in a few other showrooms) was WOW. The details that I noticed in the PerfectWave setup was now in my home setup... still not a match for the Dynaudio Temptations setup that Nick demo-ed the other but I didn't expect it to :) Then again, I doubt my tiny living room could fit the Temptations, as tempting as they are. Nor could my budget ever stretch that far ;)

But playing back some of my more favourite tracks revealed an increase in depth and width in the soundstage. I think this is what makes me smile the most.  there was also a noticeable increase in the height of the soundstage..

Will be running in the gear a bit more... and posting my impressions.

I can now imagine what Audio felt like when he "borrowed" the REF1000MkIIs home for Christmas hehe

Woow... Sounds like you are happy already before its run-in...Nice...Enjoyyy... ;)
What i heard that the Ref1000 vs MKII are increase in depth and dimension, guess you could already notice that?

Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 04, 2009, 22:46
The 1000ASP module is transplanted over from the MkI so that part is already pretty run in.

The power and input modules are new. But I think there's already a noticeable change.

From what I can tell, the noise floor is reduced further which makes it easier for the details to be noticed. Am lowering the volume knob as the hour goes later (so I don't disturb the neighbours) and notice that the details are more apparent even at lower listening levels :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 05, 2009, 02:18
wah bro... you making me drool... :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 02:27
How's the UPA2 running in? ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 05, 2009, 02:53
How's the UPA2 running in? ;)



its run-in with 20hours. A/B with BC S300 quite close. i do not want to comment further as i will be passing the amp over to friend Sat morning. he's reading my every post on the UPA-2, i am trying not to be bias towards BC. but maybe some details should be harmless? heheh ;) by now i can only draw up Strings intruments like guitar plugs can be hear with a not so perfect decay. which is technically correct when you hear live guitar playing. BC tends to be perfect so i am not sure. Drums are also less lively. still there are certain aspects on BC which clearly outperforms the UPA-2.

i have heard the XPA-5 with bigger toroids and higher wattage so it might be those that could give it more headroom as compared to just 300VA toroid and only 185W at 4ohms. My friend is going to use it on his B&W 602 S3, i regon it should work beautifully for him since he has always hear them using just a Marantz AVR. oh and erm the static hiss is back using UPA-2.....  :-X
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 10:06
If you like the decay effect, it seems more noticeable with the MkII upgrade too :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on September 05, 2009, 11:11
*turning on upgrade itch resistance mode*
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 11:13
Wait till you hear the Temptations with the Plinius ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 14:28
This is actually what they said in the review that " There are better speaker in Bowers and Wilkins range...but I will go on the record as saying that the new 802D is the best value high end speaker in the world" :)

Reminds me of this ad ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvBKTSaNng0

(review verdict needs to be "localized") ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on September 05, 2009, 14:36
Wait till you hear the Temptations with the Plinius ;)

u r refering to Evidence Temptation?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 14:42
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/dynevi2.jpg)

Woah mama! :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on September 05, 2009, 18:54
This is relli mama man! The almost ultimate dynaudio..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: zapp on September 05, 2009, 19:41
shldnt this be in the dynaudio thread :p
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: zapp on September 05, 2009, 19:45
heard it today w francis...left me speechless
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 19:56
heard it today w francis...left me speechless

Hehe... awesome right? ;) If Clitang wants an upgrade to his Thiels.. I know this is what I would be upgrading to today.. if money were no object.. it's really a quantum leap. I suspect my current amps might still do a decent job of driving them :P

I did hear Jim Thiels is hard at work addressing a major gap in the product line up ever since the CS7.2s were discontinued. From what I recall, the CS3.7s just made the CS7.2s a bit long in the tooth... but Jim reckons he can make a price no object speaker today that would punch in a very serious class, but selling at the old CS7.2 price range.

ps did you manage to hear the SuperScoutMaster at Simply Music? First time I heard a record player with all the usual dynamic range of a TT but a clean, clear "static/click"-free sound like a CD player. Was told that was the Ortofon cart's magic!!???



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on September 05, 2009, 19:59
First time I heard a record player with all the usual dynamic range of a TT but a clean, clear "static/click"-free sound like a CD player. Was told that was the Ortofon cart's magic!!???
I guess you know where you heard that suggestion first!! LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 20:05
I guess you know where you heard that suggestion first!! LOL  ;D

Which one would have that same clean click free sound with the 3012? ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: lowkenny on September 05, 2009, 20:37
Hi seanyzf,

Yes, I do agree that this thread for Thiels, just come to know that Bro Clitang do have interest in B&W speakers as well, just want to share with him some information on that, :D

By the way if you go to any other brands thread there will be some other brands in there also.. ;D

Cheers
KNY

Kenny, read thread title.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on September 05, 2009, 20:44
Which one would have that same clean click free sound with the 3012? ;)
Fingers crossed but sometimes one has to lower the bar a little for classics. Even with TLC thrown in. Now let us not digress, this after all a Thiel Owners' thread!! (Then again, since we own Thiels, we can write about anything else as well can we?)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on September 05, 2009, 21:09

ps did you manage to hear the SuperScoutMaster at Simply Music? First time I heard a record player with all the usual dynamic range of a TT but a clean, clear "static/click"-free sound like a CD player. Was told that was the Ortofon cart's magic!!???


For 6K without the cart, it's too expensive liao............ :P

Wait for the Scout Mk 2....... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 22:11
Fingers crossed but sometimes one has to lower the bar a little for classics. Even with TLC thrown in.

Don't get me wrong ;) appreciate everything you have done and are doing.

Have to say there's some new found appreciation for good "olde" CDs with the amp upgrade.. hehe.

Now let us not digress, this after all a Thiel Owners' thread!! (Then again, since we own Thiels, we can write about anything else as well can we?)

As long as it's not smacking so obviously of commercial interests, I guess...

:P

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 05, 2009, 22:13
For 6K without the cart, it's too expensive liao............ :P

Wait for the Scout Mk 2....... :D

Which will probably be the same tonearm as the SSM as well.

Am just curious why it was so clean sounding. Maybe it's really the ortofon!?? Heard it was almost 2 grand (on top of the 5.8k for the SSM). Have to say I really like the double drive motor with the flywheel driving the platter concept ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 06, 2009, 00:56
I am going back to some of the same tracks I was listening to last weekend, and have to say, I am still a bit starstruck by the Mk II upgrade.

I was listening to Igor Kipnis's recording of Four Seasons and the Sony Classical Immortal Beloved soundtrack just last week so the memory was still quite fresh... but listening again with the Mk IIs made me more aware of how good the recordings were. What struck me was how you could feel the impact of the more intimate venue on the recording, where I wasn't even aware of previously..  the layers of the different strings were more discernable. I don't normally listen to classical pieces but I can easily understand why it can be so enthralling when the recording, and the playback system can capture all these just right. My wife even joked she was getting me tickets the next time the Philharmonics are in town :P I don't think I'd go that far yet...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 06, 2009, 12:16
  :) ahh an answer why one would want to listen classicals
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Sleepytune on September 11, 2009, 20:46
Greeting all, new bird here... :)

Finally, my thiel cs2,4 has arrived.

(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9101020.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on September 11, 2009, 20:50
That is cool..  ;D wad is that 2 speakers hiding behind? seem like some British speakers. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Sleepytune on September 11, 2009, 21:03
That is cool..  ;D wad is that 2 speakers hiding behind? seem like some British speakers. 

Its a Von Schweikert VR1.I use it to drive my Unison Research S2K.
Here the spec:
http://www.vonschweikert.com/product_sheets/vsa_vr_1_lit_sheet.pdf
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on September 11, 2009, 21:08
Sleepytune,
You will get better imaging if the speakers are further apart (maybe 6" to the side walls) with a little toe-in.

BTW how does the Ipod/Wadia/PS Audio compare with your CDP.
This is something I have always wanted to try out.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 11, 2009, 21:12
yeah welcome to the club. care to list down the array of equipments on your rack?  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Sleepytune on September 11, 2009, 21:49
Sleepytune,
You will get better imaging if the speakers are further apart (maybe 6" to the side walls) with a little toe-in.

BTW how does the Ipod/Wadia/PS Audio compare with your CDP.
This is something I have always wanted to try out.
Hi, This is just a temporary placement. Wait till I fully done the room treatment,then will try for the ideal placement of speaker.Anyway will tryout as u suggest,thanks.

Mine its a mod shanling cdp.It was features during the echoloft noising gathering few years back at the tube room.It sound more natural tho Ipod/wadia/ps audio dl3 have slight detail and more airy...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Sleepytune on September 11, 2009, 22:13
yeah welcome to the club. care to list down the array of equipments on your rack?  :)

Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'
Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on September 11, 2009, 22:40
Wait till I fully done the room treatment.
I would run them in before you attempt any room treatment.
If you are doing room treatment on your own, can I suggest you contact Joamonte to get an idea of what is needed and where.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on September 11, 2009, 22:52
Hehe... awesome right? ;) If Clitang wants an upgrade to his Thiels.. I know this is what I would be upgrading to today.. if money were no object.. it's really a quantum leap. I suspect my current amps might still do a decent job of driving them :P

I did hear Jim Thiels is hard at work addressing a major gap in the product line up ever since the CS7.2s were discontinued. From what I recall, the CS3.7s just made the CS7.2s a bit long in the tooth... but Jim reckons he can make a price no object speaker today that would punch in a very serious class, but selling at the old CS7.2 price range.

ps did you manage to hear the SuperScoutMaster at Simply Music? First time I heard a record player with all the usual dynamic range of a TT but a clean, clear "static/click"-free sound like a CD player. Was told that was the Ortofon cart's magic!!???

Hi

Thank you for your recommendation. My option is open.

Where can I audit these speakers? I might need a bigger room to house this pair. Can it goes with some solid state amp like Krell, ML or PassLab.






Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on September 11, 2009, 23:06
Welcome to the family. Nice set of equipment you have there. OK, once you have run in your speakers and equipment, try the CS2.4s with the S2K. You'd be very surprised at the imaging that the CS2.4s will throw on vocals. This is because the very benign (i.e. ruler flat and non reactive) impedance of the newer Thiel speakers (CS1.6, CS2.4, CS3.7, MCS1, SCS4) in general allows for tube amplifiers to really integrate well with them. Not many high end speakers manufacturers allow for this ability. In fact, you can count them on one hand!

Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'
Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 11, 2009, 23:27
http://www.unisonresearch.com/valve/prodotto.aspx?idp=11

wow nice little fella.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 11, 2009, 23:58
clitang

The Dynaudio showroom is at level 1 in Adelphi. Nick is usually there and the Temptations are permanently setup there :P

At least for the moment... until the new golden altar comes in to take its place ;)

It's being driven by a Plinius Pre and Power setup.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: zapp on September 12, 2009, 00:01
clitang

The Dynaudio showroom is at level 1 in Adelphi. Nick is usually there and the Temptations are permanently setup there :P

At least for the moment... until the new golden altar comes in to take its place ;)

It's being driven by a Plinius Pre and Power setup.
i thought nick said he was bringing something new in :p
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 12, 2009, 00:18
That's the new "golden altar" ;) as francis puts it.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 12, 2009, 00:29
Greeting all, new bird here... :)

Finally, my thiel cs2,4 has arrived.

Glad you got yr wish and welcome to the club. Guess you already know Audio and I from our exchange in the other thread ;) Am also running the Thiels with the Bel Cantos and loving it




Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 12, 2009, 00:38
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables.  


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room. 2 Bass Busters in corner of living room

DAC Sources: Squeezebox Duet coax (QED Reference Broadcast), Marantz SA8003 coax (QED Signature), Squeezebox Duet optical (QED optical) to Behringer DEQ2496 (QED optical)

DAC: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (Silversmith Audio Silver XLR)

PreAmp sources: AVR pre out (AudioEngine AW1 to HT bypass), SA8003 analog output (custom Valgrind Audio), Thorens TD125LB with SME3012 (rewiring/reworking in progress) (vdh D-501 Silver Hybrid with Rhodium RCA) through Bel Canto Phono3

PreAmp: Bel Canto Pre3 (connected with TheMusicCable XLR)
Power Amp: Bel Canto REF1000 Mk II
Speaker Cables: Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon (2x3m)
Tweaks: Cardas RCA covers, G&W and Xindak Power Conditioners, IeGo entry copper power cords

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/30af4w9.jpg)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets,  

9. DJQ
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/new.jpg)

Stereo: Thiel CS2.4, Denon 3910,Benchmark DAC1 Pre, Bel Canto S300i, Belden Studio 814, IeGO L70530 Power Cable w/pure copper 8055CT
G&W TW-D1000 Power Conditioner modded IeGO 24k Gold plate pure copper R301 socket



10. Jagdpanzer
Kimber 8TC driving Thiel CS2.4




11. Sleepytune
Thiel CS2.4
Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'

Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire

(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9101020.jpg)
Title: Re: Room Treatment or DEQ?
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 12, 2009, 00:50
The main issue now is the the 50Hz bass boost. It doesn't seem to be as apparent in most of the tracks I have listened including the new XRCD2 mastering/pressing of Eagles' Hell Freezes Over. But on one or two of my collection, they just hit the right resonance spot.

I guess the more traditional way to treat this boost is to use bass traps but most of the ones I have seen are pretty massive and despite making it home decor friendly, they are still quite obstrusive and fails WAF (in my particular case).

So I got around to thinking about the old Behringer DEQ2496 which I am now using to control the SVS subwoofer. but the DEQ is actually designed for normal stereo operation and not optimized for subwoofer operation (only goes down to 20Hz whereas the SVS goes lower than this).

Has anyone else considered using a DEQ to tame the room acoustics instead of using acoustic treatment? I know that the DEQ only works with one sweet spot, and would not be optimized for everywhere else around the room, but I am planning to listen from the sweet spot anyway.

I know this will probably run counter to conventional hifi audiophiles thinking :)

But just curious...

I had this query in the very early days of ownership when the full range Thiels began to be affected the room resonance ;)

Turned out, it wasn't so crazy after ;)

I am now using a combination of the DEQ and some Bass Busters. The 20-20kHz is surprisingly flat and really amazed at how a flat "system" sounds
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on September 12, 2009, 03:08
Hi, This is just a temporary placement. Wait till I fully done the room treatment,then will try for the ideal placement of speaker.Anyway will tryout as u suggest,thanks.



In process , brother....in process.... ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/joamonte/diffuser/P1040376.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/joamonte/diffuser/P1040362.jpg)

 :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: koma on September 12, 2009, 07:41
wow~~ wat is tis bro? new product??

In process , brother....in process.... ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/joamonte/diffuser/P1040376.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/joamonte/diffuser/P1040362.jpg)

 :)


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 12, 2009, 11:48
clitang

The Dynaudio showroom is at level 1 in Adelphi. Nick is usually there and the Temptations are permanently setup there :P

At least for the moment... until the new golden altar comes in to take its place ;)

It's being driven by a Plinius Pre and Power setup.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=54488.msg499840#msg499840

My bad. The temptations have been displaced by the new setup :) and it's not the golden version.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on September 12, 2009, 13:23
wow~~ wat is tis bro? new product??


yes, new diffuser design....very powerful.... :o ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 12, 2009, 13:26
yes, new diffuser design....very powerful.... :o ;D

i see alot of wood material leh. so its not going to be cheap...  :P
whats that center opening for? wack in the diffuser panels with holes? 3 in 1 innovations?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 12, 2009, 15:27
This is one of the first few albums I heard on vinyl at a friend's place ;)

Just got the new LP45 record and the SACD version...

(http://www.musicdirect.com/shared/images/products/large/hope.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on September 13, 2009, 12:38
clitang

The Dynaudio showroom is at level 1 in Adelphi. Nick is usually there and the Temptations are permanently setup there :P

At least for the moment... until the new golden altar comes in to take its place ;)

It's being driven by a Plinius Pre and Power setup.

Just went to Dynaudio for a quick look last weekend.

Wow!!! The Temptations cost SDG64,000. I have to sell my kidney and part of my liver to get that. I think one option for me is the C4 which cost about SGD16,000

Will seriously listen to it when I have the time. Will conpare it to CS3.7, B&W803, and Focal BE series.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 13, 2009, 12:44
Have you thought about using a better set of amps to drive the Thiels? I am really amazed by the improvements when I got the Mk II upgrade of my amp. And if you wanted a more mellow sound, you can try a tube pre-amp. Have listened to the LAMM which sounds pretty good with the Thiels, and also hearing a lot about the Modwright pre as well.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on September 13, 2009, 20:34
Have you thought about using a better set of amps to drive the Thiels? I am really amazed by the improvements when I got the Mk II upgrade of my amp. And if you wanted a more mellow sound, you can try a tube pre-amp. Have listened to the LAMM which sounds pretty good with the Thiels, and also hearing a lot about the Modwright pre as well.



Hi,

Sorry, what is your NKII upgrade. Besides tube amp, any solid state amp that you know works well.

Currently I am using the Plinius SA102MkII amp.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 13, 2009, 21:53
I upgraded my BCD REF1000 monos to REF1000 Mk II. Thankfully, it was a modular upgrade.

That's a solid state power amp.

The tube amps I mentioned are pre-amps.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: koma on September 14, 2009, 00:59
oic how much bro pm me thanx ;)

yes, new diffuser design....very powerful.... :o ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: SiriuslyCold on September 18, 2009, 10:56
Jim Thiel R.I.P
http://www.cepro.com/article/jim_thiel_passes_away/
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: seanyzf on September 18, 2009, 11:16
omg... RIP..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on September 18, 2009, 11:40
R.I.P. and I wanted to actually meet the guy someday.  :'(

This is a very very sad day as the audio world has lost one of the most innovative speaker designers.

He's up there now with the likes of Paul Klipsch, Henry Kloss, John Dunlavy and Peter Walker.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on September 18, 2009, 15:26
I only got into the Thiel bandwagon very recently...

RIP man.

Is it just me or like there seems to be a lot more passing in the 7th month. Is it still the 7th month?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: 2100 on September 18, 2009, 15:29
Is it just me or like there seems to be a lot more passing in the 7th month. Is it still the 7th month?



Today 2359h is the last min of 7th month.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on September 18, 2009, 16:04
After listen to a few pair of Thiel 2.4 recently, I really feel respect to Jim Thiel.....I never like the sound of older flagship model CS 7 and CS 5i, the mid and high sound too much faster than bass,  but the 2.4 that I heard recently sound really good, to me it's much more coherence than the older flagship.

A great loss to us audiophile...

  
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: fff on September 18, 2009, 16:47
He looks too healthy to be gone .......
Indeed sad day, always like his creation.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on September 19, 2009, 10:54
Feel free to add on (I know some of you guys got them as center/surround as well)


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2
Was using the Sony TA-DA9000ES , then switch to Bel Canto Ref1000 as power amp.  Source for Audio is Denon DVD-3910 via Denon Link to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  Speaker cables is Monster Cables at the moment, will be changing to a pair of Alpha Cable soon.  Listening area is a typical HDB bedroom.  Speaker placement about 2 feet from corner, toe-in, aiming at listener.

Listening sofa is a red IKEA.

(http://audio.sg/pic/myroom.jpg)

Despite many attempts by Sammy and Sanjay to make me change my speaker cables, I finally did so and replaced my Monster Cables with what they recommended as bare minimum, the Alpha Cables. You see, when it comes to cables, I am a "Giam Kan Nan" (Sour Olive) because I believe no matter what you buy and at whatever price, you can never be sure what you are getting.

The results I got last night is simply beyond my expectations; yes, improved but not improve until like that mah!!!  The Thiels were elevated to new higher level of resolution and details, just like upgraded to 3.8 or changed some new power amps.  Every CDs I played, I have never hear them this good. Vocals are more solid then before, all the music instruments, especailly soft precussion ones, now jump out at you with details you never knew existed.  My neighbours must had hated me last night as I could not stop until 2am.

The silver looking cable is the Alpha and the white one is the Monster.  Thinner cables but better sound!
(http://audio.sg/pic/alphacables.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables.  


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room. 2 Bass Busters in corner of living room

DAC Sources: Squeezebox Duet coax (QED Reference Broadcast), Marantz SA8003 coax (QED Signature), Squeezebox Duet optical (QED optical) to Behringer DEQ2496 (QED optical)

DAC: Benchmark DAC1 Pre (Silversmith Audio Silver XLR)

PreAmp sources: AVR pre out (AudioEngine AW1 to HT bypass), SA8003 analog output (custom Valgrind Audio), Thorens TD125LB with SME3012 (rewiring/reworking in progress) (vdh D-501 Silver Hybrid with Rhodium RCA) through Bel Canto Phono3

PreAmp: Bel Canto Pre3 (connected with TheMusicCable XLR)
Power Amp: Bel Canto REF1000 Mk II
Speaker Cables: Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon (2x3m)
Tweaks: Cardas RCA covers, G&W and Xindak Power Conditioners, IeGo entry copper power cords

CS2.4s slightly less than 8 feet apart, facing forward with no toe-in now (found that the sound seemed less shrill with this layout), with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/30af4w9.jpg)

Between the speakers sit the subwoofer and center speaker and my audio (non HT) gear. A fan sits between the left speaker and the subwoofer. The CS2.4s are slightly in front of the subwoofer/fan.

Left speaker is about 1 foot from side (full length windows but covered by black out curtains, which in hindsight is a good thing since it helps against side reflections.

Right speaker side is open area (opens to dining area).


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


7. Clitang CS2.4 + SCS4 (Center) + CS2(sides)
I placed my CS2.4 about 2.5ft from the back and 1.2ft from the side wall. Please refer to pic.

I am using

CD player : Marantz SA14ver2
Pre : Integra DTC 9.8
Power amp : Plinius SA102
Interconnect : XLR Balance x 2pair, 1.5m. Audioquest Diamond from power to pre and pre to CD Player
Specker cable : Kimber Kable Monocle XL 6 ft.

(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)


8. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets,  

9. DJQ
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/new.jpg)

Stereo: Thiel CS2.4, Denon 3910,Benchmark DAC1 Pre, Bel Canto S300i, Belden Studio 814, IeGO L70530 Power Cable w/pure copper 8055CT
G&W TW-D1000 Power Conditioner modded IeGO 24k Gold plate pure copper R301 socket



10. Jagdpanzer
Kimber 8TC driving Thiel CS2.4




11. Sleepytune
Thiel CS2.4
Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'

Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire

(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9101020.jpg)

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy2/shsoh/HifiRoomSetupSep2009.jpg)
Nottingham Spacedeck Turntable
Partial Origin Live Rega RB300
Lyra Helikon SL cartridge
Pass Labs XOno Phonostage
Clearaudio Syncro Controller
Living Voice Mystic Mat

Meridian 200 Transport
Wadia 12 DAC
First Sound Presence Deluxe MkII
Ayre V-1x
Thiel CS 2.4
REL Stampede

Kimber Select KS2020 Digital Cable
Kimber Select KS1030 Interconnects
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cables
Synergistic Research AC Reference Powercords (Digital)
Shunyata Taipan Alpha Helix Powercords

Isotek Titan Conditioner
Furutech eTP-60/20 Conditioner

Solidsteel Racks
Symposium Rollerblocks 2+
Symposium Sveltes & Ultra
Acoustic Systems Basic Resonator
Taoc PTS-A
Jade Isoduos


Current wishlist: (1) 2 inch marble slabs to raise the Thiel (2) Notthingham Hyperspace (3) Synergistic Research REL subwoofer cable

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Sleepytune on September 19, 2009, 23:56
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9191031.jpg)

Just an update.... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 20, 2009, 00:14
wah bro... you got joamonte's new sound diffusers!!! nice! btw can ask where you got ur AV rack? price tag?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Sleepytune on September 20, 2009, 00:26
wah bro... you got joamonte's new sound diffusers!!! nice! btw can ask where you got ur AV rack? price tag?
Hi, its a ash design hifi rack. Got from electrade and it cost 1.2k.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 20, 2009, 00:28
Hi, its a ash design hifi rack. Got from electrade and it cost 1.2k.

oh! steep...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 21, 2009, 12:30
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/corner.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/sound.jpg)

Just to share. got these sound diffusers and corner traps. now the CS2.4 sound is not as restricted in the small room.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on September 23, 2009, 12:45
R.I.P. and I wanted to actually meet the guy someday.  :'(

This is a very very sad day as the audio world has lost one of the most innovative speaker designers.

He's up there now with the likes of Paul Klipsch, Henry Kloss, John Dunlavy and Peter Walker.

Who will carry on the design of future speakers? Did he designate an "heir"?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: oomph on September 23, 2009, 23:00
Who will carry on the design of future speakers? Did he designate an "heir"?

Good question. From what I gather from the years of discussing with the local distributor, Thiel has always been very involved in the development.

They all gotta go someday. Expect some change. Take Sonus Faber for example, the legendary Franco Serbin retired, and the new R&D team created a new sound for the entire range ! Die hard collectors are already collecting his last pieces e.g. the Cremona range. Who knows, some of the Thiel speakers pictured here could become valuable collectors items overnight !
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on September 23, 2009, 23:36
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/corner.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/sound.jpg)

Just to share. got these sound diffusers and corner traps. now the CS2.4 sound is not as restricted in the small room.  :)

Corner traps?! I'm planning to get these - What improvements did you have with the traps installed?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 24, 2009, 01:21
overall the echo in the room is reduced. the trap is made of spongy foam material so it also absorbs with minimal reflections making the room sound bigger. but the way hdb design rooms, there is 2inch depth on 1 side wall. with top ceiling beams 5inchs out. sighz more must be done....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on September 24, 2009, 05:19
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/corner.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/sound.jpg)

Just to share. got these sound diffusers and corner traps. now the CS2.4 sound is not as restricted in the small room.  :)

nice DIY work......

suggest you pay Sleepytune a visit, he is using same speaker and 6 Thin diffuser like your room, but with additional 3pcs of my new wooden 1.5 D diffuser ..... I like his system sound even not yet run in.

 :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 24, 2009, 08:38
nice DIY work......

suggest you pay Sleepytune a visit, he is using same speaker and 6 Thin diffuser like your room, but with additional 3pcs of my new wooden 1.5 D diffuser ..... I like his system sound even not yet run in.

 :)

ah yes i will...  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on September 24, 2009, 08:48
overall the echo in the room is reduced. the trap is made of spongy foam material so it also absorbs with minimal reflections making the room sound bigger. but the way hdb design rooms, there is 2inch depth on 1 side wall. with top ceiling beams 5inchs out. sighz more must be done....

I will borrow some to try. My current echo and bass busters are ok now but just want to see if more can be done without making the room too dead.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Kopi on September 26, 2009, 14:06
Anyone out there driving the thiel with KRELL..can share experience.?
KSA. KPB?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on September 29, 2009, 00:09
nice DIY work......

suggest you pay Sleepytune a visit, he is using same speaker and 6 Thin diffuser like your room, but with additional 3pcs of my new wooden 1.5 D diffuser ..... I like his system sound even not yet run in.

 :)

have heard his CS2.4 Damn it sounded so different from mine. his list of awesome equipments are also at a much higher level :o
alias... i have to make do with what i have now.  :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Charcoal on October 11, 2009, 17:53
what finishes yr Thiels are ?

mine is Morado but considering upgrade now to 2.4 or may be other brand .....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on October 22, 2009, 22:29
I'm keen at getting the Sound Anchor speaker stands for the Thiel 2.4 => Wonder if anyone has raised their speakers?

The tweeters seem a little low for me now and I hope to raise the soundstage with this. What is the optimum tweeter height?

Thanks.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 22, 2009, 23:07
what finishes yr Thiels are ?

mine is Morado but considering upgrade now to 2.4 or may be other brand .....

Missed this :P sorry

The 2.4SE only comes in one finish. Looks like a maple color?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 22, 2009, 23:11
I'm keen at getting the Sound Anchor speaker stands for the Thiel 2.4 => Wonder if anyone has raised their speakers?

I am using the Outriggers (standard on the SE). I believe there is an option available for the regular 2.4s

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/models/Accessories/AccessoriesOutrig0108.html

Think it raises the tweeter height just slightly.

FWIW, I found the image height improved when I upgraded the amp :)

(http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/images/Accessories/CS24_outrigger.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on October 22, 2009, 23:40
Heard the CS2.4 SE at SD couple weeks back, does any owner of CS 2.4 or SC 2.4 SE able to give some views of the obvious diff between the 2?

I am thinking of floor standers for my audio room, size of 2.8m width by about 3.5m length.
Few commented that the CS2.4 would be slightly over the top for my room size (would sound boomy and diff to control even with treatment) and stand mount might sound better out of the box would not sound bass lacking since a small soom.

Any owners of the CS2.4 using them in a room size similar to the dimension mentioned?

Thanks in advance for any views/inputs.

Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on October 22, 2009, 23:43
I'm keen at getting the Sound Anchor speaker stands for the Thiel 2.4 => Wonder if anyone has raised their speakers?
The tweeters seem a little low for me now and I hope to raise the soundstage with this. What is the optimum tweeter height?
Unless your listening chair is low, I don't think raising the speaker will solve any sound stage height problem as the tweeters with the Thiel standard spikes are already at optimum height.
I could be wrong but even with the outriggers I believe the speaker height does not change at all or at the most less than 1 cm.
My suggestion would be to raise the front and lower the back i.e the whole speaker is slightly angled upwards and see what effect this has.
You could also try some other means to raise the speakers before you actually buy the stands to see if you are get the desired result.
Using music with vocals, determine the height of the voice and as long as this is around 5-6ft you are OK.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on October 22, 2009, 23:58
I am thinking of floor standers for my audio room, size of 2.8m width by about 3.5m length.
In theory you could just fit the speakers but you should see speaker placement section here: http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/PDF_files/PDF_owner_info/CS2_4owner.pdf (http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/PDF_files/PDF_owner_info/CS2_4owner.pdf)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 23, 2009, 09:16
Heard the CS2.4 SE at SD couple weeks back, does any owner of CS 2.4 or SC 2.4 SE able to give some views of the obvious diff between the 2?

I don't think the SE constitutes "value for money". The SE added a few new features: the front baffle was changed slightly. Sanjay explained to me the difference in the baffle and it seemed more like a cosmetic change. The finish is mirror matched and uses the more expensive wood finish not found on the standard 2.4. The outriggers are finished differently (silver finish). And the caps/components used in the crossovers were changed to "boutique" grade. I think that's really all there was to it. Plus the limited run moniker (unlike the Beatles box set hehe) with Jim Thiel's signature. The drivers are identical.

I am a sucker for Limited Edition stuff so don't use me as a yardstick :P I am the idiot who got the signed and numbered limited edition Shards of Narsil full sized replica but it's still in the box because the wife refuses to let me have it in the living room *sigh*

I have listened to DIYer's CS2.4 and I don't think the sound signature was noticeably different. In fact, partnering it with the tube integrated amp made the sound warmer and sweeter.

I am thinking of floor standers for my audio room, size of 2.8m width by about 3.5m length.
Few commented that the CS2.4 would be slightly over the top for my room size (would sound boomy and diff to control even with treatment) and stand mount might sound better out of the box would not sound bass lacking since a small soom.


Have a look at DJQ's and DIYer Straits' rooms. From my recollection, they are about the same size. I haven't had a chance to listen to DJQ's room before, but DIYer's room didn't sound boomy. It does require that you have some space to play with (ie no beds or other big pieces of furniture in the middle of the room), and you have to sit in an optimal position (feels like a "nearfield listening" position which was also recommended by another forummer in a PM to me). It's not exactly the same positioning as what is recommended in the Owner's manual but I found it quite enjoyable. He just needs to move his spare parts bin elsewhere hehe so I have somewhere to put my feet comfortably

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on October 23, 2009, 11:49
Heard the CS2.4 SE at SD couple weeks back, does any owner of CS 2.4 or SC 2.4 SE able to give some views of the obvious diff between the 2?

I don't think the SE constitutes "value for money". The SE added a few new features: the front baffle was changed slightly. Sanjay explained to me the difference in the baffle and it seemed more like a cosmetic change. The finish is mirror matched and uses the more expensive wood finish not found on the standard 2.4. The outriggers are finished differently (silver finish). And the caps/components used in the crossovers were changed to "boutique" grade. I think that's really all there was to it. Plus the limited run moniker (unlike the Beatles box set hehe) with Jim Thiel's signature. The drivers are identical.

I am a sucker for Limited Edition stuff so don't use me as a yardstick :P I am the idiot who got the signed and numbered limited edition Shards of Narsil full sized replica but it's still in the box because the wife refuses to let me have it in the living room *sigh*

I have listened to DIYer's CS2.4 and I don't think the sound signature was noticeably different. In fact, partnering it with the tube integrated amp made the sound warmer and sweeter.

I am thinking of floor standers for my audio room, size of 2.8m width by about 3.5m length.
Few commented that the CS2.4 would be slightly over the top for my room size (would sound boomy and diff to control even with treatment) and stand mount might sound better out of the box would not sound bass lacking since a small soom.


Have a look at DJQ's and DIYer Straits' rooms. From my recollection, they are about the same size. I haven't had a chance to listen to DJQ's room before, but DIYer's room didn't sound boomy. It does require that you have some space to play with (ie no beds or other big pieces of furniture in the middle of the room), and you have to sit in an optimal position (feels like a "nearfield listening" position which was also recommended by another forummer in a PM to me). It's not exactly the same positioning as what is recommended in the Owner's manual but I found it quite enjoyable. He just needs to move his spare parts bin elsewhere hehe so I have somewhere to put my feet comfortably



Thanks DH.
Great Info, infact my preference are floorstanders which I have narrowed to the 2.4, 804S or  1027/8be. Just concern it will be too much over for the small room i am going to use in.
I will be powering the speakers with the BC Ref 1000s. Seeing many guys here enjoying the thiel with the BC,should be very well matched. So i am slightly incline to the thiel than the other 2 . Luckily, i can have the full rooom for the audio set up, so hopefully  by different placing, i am still able to control and get the best sounding of the setup.

Enjoying the setting up and searching process for now. ;D
Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on October 23, 2009, 12:27
Thanks. Has anyone tries the Astin Trew AT2500+ and the AT3500+ with their Thiel?? Please tell me the result if you have.
Hi Jazzi,
Your Thiel CS1.6es should have arrived by now. Have you decided on what to get to drive them? Please let us know on your experiences. Pictures too if its not too much to ask!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on October 23, 2009, 14:02
ilovepanerai,

The BC also matches very well with the 804s. I have built a system for a friend around the 804s and the BC s-300i. However, given your room dimensions, I wouldn't choose either the 2.4 and definitely not the 804s. If you can do some room treatment, you could get optimal results. Personally I would go for the 1.6 which sounds very good in my 3x4m room.


Thanks DH.
Great Info, infact my preference are floorstanders which I have narrowed to the 2.4, 804S or  1027/8be. Just concern it will be too much over for the small room i am going to use in.
I will be powering the speakers with the BC Ref 1000s. Seeing many guys here enjoying the thiel with the BC,should be very well matched. So i am slightly incline to the thiel than the other 2 . Luckily, i can have the full rooom for the audio set up, so hopefully  by different placing, i am still able to control and get the best sounding of the setup.

Enjoying the setting up and searching process for now. ;D
Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 23, 2009, 14:08
Great Info, infact my preference are floorstanders which I have narrowed to the 2.4, 804S or  1027/8be.

All good choices but I think there are different sonic signatures so be sure to audition with the material you would be listening to the most. ps thot the 1027Be were already sold out (with the offer pricing) and the new 1028Be would most likely be selling for the original 1027Be pricing

I will be powering the speakers with the BC Ref 1000s. Seeing many guys here enjoying the thiel with the BC,should be very well matched. So i am slightly incline to the thiel than the other 2 . Luckily, i can have the full rooom for the audio set up, so hopefully  by different placing, i am still able to control and get the best sounding of the setup.

One of the Stereophile reviewers uses the REF1000MkII to power his 802D in his reference setup, so I think the BC/B&W combo would also work just as well.

Enjoying the setting up and searching process for now. ;D

Have fun
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: OmegaRed on October 23, 2009, 16:59
All good choices but I think there are different sonic signatures so be sure to audition with the material you would be listening to the most. ps thot the 1027Be were already sold out (with the offer pricing) and the new 1028Be would most likely be selling for the original 1027Be pricing
The latest I received from dealer is that the new 10x8Be will be 35% more than 10x7Be used to be.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on October 23, 2009, 17:08
The latest I received from dealer is that the new 10x8Be will be 35% more than 10x7Be used to be.

bro, u got try Jay Audio (the ex AudioJas) that parallel import JM Labs?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on October 23, 2009, 21:38
bro, u got try Jay Audio (the ex AudioJas) that parallel import JM Labs?
I dun think Jay parallel imports them.. anyway, the info omega said is about right. Heard it from Jay also.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Charcoal on October 23, 2009, 22:53
Missed this :P sorry

The 2.4SE only comes in one finish. Looks like a maple color?


thanks, I didn't know that, wonder have quite variety.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on October 24, 2009, 21:51
Hi

Just cusious to find out, how much is the 2.4 and 2.4SE cost?

What is the pre-owned price for a pair of 5 years old 2.4?

Anyone?

Thank you
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 24, 2009, 22:15
Just cusious to find out, how much is the 2.4 and 2.4SE cost?

US$4000 and US$8000 respectively.

Only 150 pairs of the 2.4SEs were ever made.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on October 25, 2009, 11:26
US$4000 and US$8000 respectively.

Only 150 pairs of the 2.4SEs were ever made.

Does it justify double the price to get the 2.4SE. Maybe?

Has anoyone audit it before.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 25, 2009, 12:09
Here's a review of the SE, where the late Jim Thiel was asked about the differences.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ultraaudio.com/equipment/thiel_cs24se.htm

Quote
Jim Thiel’s answer: "The CS2.4s have been a very successful model for us and, originally, the SE version was conceived only as a commemorative edition with some enhanced cosmetic features. The SE would have a beautiful, unique finish, refined spikes, and a laser-etched metal input panel with [my] signature. But then we decided to also improve the performance by relaxing our usual value placed on a high performance/price ratio. In this way, we could also achieve some improvement in sound, while recognizing that this limited Special Edition would be available as an option to the interested buyer."

My next question involved the changes in the speaker’s crossover: "When reexamining the CS2.4 crossover, was it your intent to only change to better-quality components, or were there other improvements, such as physical layout and parts values, that were addressed?"

According to Thiel, "Our intent was to only improve upon the component quality. We liked the tonal balance of the CS2.4, so we didn’t want to change values. We changed two key capacitors in the coax signal path to ultra-premium parts at a very high comparative cost that did improve performance. Physical layout had to change slightly to accommodate the much larger size of the new capacitors." Thiel didn’t specify which brands of capacitor he used, but he did talk about the selection process: "We ordered samples from several well-regarded brands and listened to each of them in the signal path. We spent quite a bit of time in our listening room with a variety of reference recordings, listening for greater resolution and musical involvement. Stock CS2.4 caps are very good, but the ones chosen for the CS2.4SE reaffirmed for us that the CS2.4 coax is a wonderfully detailed driver worthy of the SE upgrade."

How were the improvements measured? Jim Thiel again: "The improved resolution is not the kind of thing that shows up well in measurements; the magnitude of the difference between the CS2.4 and the CS2.4SE is more easily heard than discerned from graphs. The new capacitors allow more nuance, air, detail, and decay to be reproduced by the coaxial drive unit. This was especially evident to us when listening to recordings that contained realistic reverberation, as well as recordings where the instruments were not processed heavily."

Last, I asked Thiel if there was a way to quantify the sonic improvements. Just how much better is the CS2.4SE than the CS2.4?

"I think, to some people, the SE upgrade is going to be considered a substantial improvement. The degree of improvement will depend on each individual’s listening habits, musical preference, and associated equipment. The SE crossover upgrade is certainly a worthwhile improvement to us here at Thiel, and, along with the unique physical features already mentioned in the finish, the signed back panel, and the outriggers, we think that the CS2.4SE represents a high degree of value for the 150 fortunate people who we think will be very pleased to own a pair."

FWIW, I think if your budget could stretch a bit more, and you liked the Thiel signature, the CS3.7 is a better bang for the buck.

Me? As I said.. sucker for limited editions :P


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on October 26, 2009, 15:34
US$4000 and US$8000 respectively.

Only 150 pairs of the 2.4SEs were ever made.

Correction:
US$4995 - US$5995 retail for the CS2.4 in various finishes. About SG$550 more for the standard CS2.4 outriggers IIRC. This was then. Now could be different.

As of a week ago, there's only one CS2.4SE pair left for sale in Singapore. Dunno about today.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 26, 2009, 15:40
Correction:
US$4995 - US$5995 retail for the CS2.4 in various finishes. About SG$550 more for the standard CS2.4 outriggers IIRC. This was then. Now could be different.

As of a week ago, there's only one CS2.4SE pair left for sale in Singapore. Dunno about today.

I must have read some really old reviews which put in the pricing :P

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jazzi on October 27, 2009, 15:36
Hi Jazzi,
Your Thiel CS1.6es should have arrived by now. Have you decided on what to get to drive them? Please let us know on your experiences. Pictures too if its not too much to ask!

Oh yes... had the thiel for about a month already. Finally I took a deep deep breath, went for the BC pre3 and s500i. It burned a hole in my pocket but it was worth every cent of it. I couldn't afford any "high end" CD player and bought the Cayin 17D. So far, it has given me endless hours of music pleasure.

BTW, I matched it with the "Waterfall" rear, centre and sub... HT is just pure pleasure.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on October 27, 2009, 15:38
S500i?  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on October 27, 2009, 15:58
S500i?  ??? ??? ???

Believe he meant stereo version of the Ref 500s.

CHeers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jazzi on October 27, 2009, 16:22
S500i?  ??? ??? ???

Hahaha.. must be the S500 without the "i".
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on October 27, 2009, 17:23
orhh... BC facelifted their Website. tought got new integrated amp base on S500 ice modules.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on October 27, 2009, 18:33
Hahaha.. must be the S500 without the "i".
Its a good thing that you did get those. The alternative that you initially wanted was reviewed to be mostly lacking in details and a bit fuzzy. Some people might misconstrue this to be warm and "musical". Guys, jazzi is one of the few who represents the better half of man owning Thiels.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 27, 2009, 19:00
Please psycho my missus :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on December 13, 2009, 12:55
its been some time since anyone posted in this thread...

i am looking to upgrade my Amps to drive my 2.4 to fuller improve its dynamics. actually looking at BC S500 or 2 Ref500. but i am open to any good Class AB amps that can drive 2.4 just as good. anyone here can share which are good? Plinius P10 ,Parasound A21,Emotiva XPA-2 .....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on December 13, 2009, 15:24
its been some time since anyone posted in this thread...

i am looking to upgrade my Amps to drive my 2.4 to fuller improve its dynamics. actually looking at BC S500 or 2 Ref500. but i am open to any good Class AB amps that can drive 2.4 just as good. anyone here can share which are good? Plinius P10 ,Parasound A21,Emotiva XPA-2 .....
bro, u want to borrow my emotiva xpa-5 to test on your speakers? :) but imo, u are going one up from emotiva already by considering the bel cantos so i dun think that is an option. the only gd point of this exercise is to see if u like this type of dynamics cos plinius can offer something similar but with more refinement.

my impression of parasound (and i may be wrong) is that the a21 has enough drive but abit too relaxed presentation for my liking. if u are looking for more dynamics this may not be it..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on December 13, 2009, 23:01
i am looking to upgrade my Amps to drive my 2.4 to fuller improve its dynamics.
Can you explain what you mean by improve its dynamics?
Just going pre/power with BelCanto would already change how your system sounds and probably show up your source.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on December 15, 2009, 13:32
bro, u want to borrow my emotiva xpa-5 to test on your speakers? :) but imo, u are going one up from emotiva already by considering the bel cantos so i dun think that is an option. the only gd point of this exercise is to see if u like this type of dynamics cos plinius can offer something similar but with more refinement.

my impression of parasound (and i may be wrong) is that the a21 has enough drive but abit too relaxed presentation for my liking. if u are looking for more dynamics this may not be it..

yeah i know. i already tried UPA-2 before, i understand your XPA-5 may have a little more power. But the big difference would be getting XPA-2 with 500W on 4ohms. same as the BC S500. which Plinius range can you recommend?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on December 15, 2009, 13:34
Can you explain what you mean by improve its dynamics?
Just going pre/power with BelCanto would already change how your system sounds and probably show up your source.

ah ok. let me recollect on this Dynamics issue.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on December 15, 2009, 13:50
yeah i know. i already tried UPA-2 before, i understand your XPA-5 may have a little more power. But the big difference would be getting XPA-2 with 500W on 4ohms. same as the BC S500. which Plinius range can you recommend?
i dun think watts are all that important really. if that were true, u'd be looking at rotel class d already. if i'm not wrong their 1000w class d amp is also cheaper than the s300..

as for plinius, frankly i like the SA-103 but abit expensive. not to mention hot. :)
about dynamics.. maybe wait till i get another 1 of my new power cords in 1st. :) see how it sounds in ur system.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on December 15, 2009, 15:59
about dynamics.. maybe wait till i get another 1 of my new power cords in 1st. :) see how it sounds in ur system.
Which power cords are you using?
How do they affect dynamics?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on December 15, 2009, 18:18
Which power cords are you using?
How do they affect dynamics?
currently testing black sand silver reference.
good for power amps for boosting dynamics. i guess i lack the vocab for it. :) transients are more pronounced, bass is tighter and perception of speed is better.
i guess all these things must be heard to be believed and still rely on system synergy.
its just that i been to djq place a few times with different cables already. i am unsure on the performance of the s300 though.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on December 15, 2009, 18:36
My maid dinged the CS 1.6 speakers...there's a bad obvious stratch on it now...

 >:(  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yeppie99 on December 26, 2009, 21:56
hello thiel owners, if anyone is looking to sell their 1.6 or 2.4, you have a buyer here  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on December 27, 2009, 13:07
A 2nd hand shop at yishun is selling 2.4 & 3.7 you can check them out in echoloft sales.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on December 27, 2009, 16:41
hello thiel owners, if anyone is looking to sell their 1.6 or 2.4, you have a buyer here  :)

How much is your offer price for a pair of 5 years CS2.4 with black finish? SGD4K?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on December 27, 2009, 16:44
currently testing black sand silver reference.
good for power amps for boosting dynamics. i guess i lack the vocab for it. :) transients are more pronounced, bass is tighter and perception of speed is better.
i guess all these things must be heard to be believed and still rely on system synergy.
its just that i been to djq place a few times with different cables already. i am unsure on the performance of the s300 though.

Hi Bro

Are you testing the black sand silver reference with the Plinius 103? How is it? Have you compare it with other similar range of PC? How much does it cost for this PC?

Thank you. Interested to know as I am using a Plinius 102.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yeppie99 on December 27, 2009, 19:17
A 2nd hand shop at yishun is selling 2.4 & 3.7 you can check them out in echoloft sales.

thanks, in discussion for the 2.4 already. just looking for more options especially for 1.6. always prefer to deal owner to owner too.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on December 28, 2009, 09:19
Welcome to the club, yeppie :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on December 28, 2009, 11:47
Earlier there were 2 bros selling their 2.4 here.  Both bros sold already?   :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yeppie99 on December 28, 2009, 11:50
Welcome to the club, yeppie :)



not yet unfortunately  :(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on December 28, 2009, 11:59
Earlier there were 2 bros selling their 2.4 here.  Both bros sold already?   :)

May I know who are they?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on December 28, 2009, 15:30
May I know who are they?

u lor!   ;D

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=68482.0

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonchew on December 28, 2009, 15:58
Good speaker!!Am useing for my HT system.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on December 28, 2009, 16:04
Me too.

I may sell my Thiel 2.4 until I find a used Thiel 3.7 or a Kharma at good prices.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on December 28, 2009, 16:07
They are gonna have to pry my 2.4SE from my cold dead corpse :P

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on December 28, 2009, 16:48
They are gonna have to pry my 2.4SE from my cold dead corpse :P



No need.  Just need to sell u a 3.7 SLE (special limited edition).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on December 28, 2009, 17:10
May I know who are they?

I mean besides me who else. Sorry for the miss-understanding.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on December 28, 2009, 17:59
I mean besides me who else. Sorry for the miss-understanding.



The other posting was in echoloft.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on December 29, 2009, 23:18
Jim Thiel has passed on. Those 2.4SE with his signature will become collector's items soon.

I would keep them if I own them too.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on December 29, 2009, 23:27
Jim Thiel has passed on. Those 2.4SE with his signature will become collector's items soon.

I would keep them if I own them too.

Agreed, if I am a die hard fan of Thiel. I will keep a pair of 2.4SE, it cost about SGD10K if I am not wrong. However, I am still looking and safe up for a pair speaker that I can keep and listen to it for a life time.

Just cusious, which speaker will you choose and consider a life time speaker. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on December 29, 2009, 23:44
Agreed, if I am a die hard fan of Thiel. I will keep a pair of 2.4SE, it cost about SGD10K if I am not wrong. However, I am still looking and safe up for a pair speaker that I can keep and listen to it for a life time.

Just cusious, which speaker will you choose and consider a life time speaker. 

The Thiel 3.7.

Thiel could have charged $30K for them and people wouldn't complain. Yet, he didn't. Those speakers are also the culmination of his entire life's work before he passed away.

The Focal Be series are also nice.....


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on December 30, 2009, 01:12
Ok just sharing my findings over Xmas holidays. Got a Wyred4Sound ST500 stereo amp to try on the CS2.4. This is using the new ice power modules same as those on BC S500. 1st impressions are definitely better and improved dynamics. Already some are asking me how to relate dynamics in this case.
Thiel CS2.4 is a very much revealing spk, but the BC S300 wasn't able to bring out the best of it. Yes I believe wattage is not that all important but it did gave CS2.4 more headroom to perform. Tracks from Dire straits were played with more gusto, electric guitars stroke was very much technically correct. Played the cd layer of an sacd sampler 6 Telarc Classical track 4 from master & commander theme, volins was really good. Can't find the right words to describe the feeling. Overall classical's soundstage improved dramatically.
I enjoyed myself over the weekend for those nights I played. Many thanks to Ray from Raindrop audio for loaning me the amp. As some might know I still got this high pitched freq emulating from the amp. Which is the ac power at my place at fault. Will need to rectify this problem before I venture further. Altas I would consider ST500 for it's vfm factor.   
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on December 30, 2009, 09:48
Ok just sharing my findings over Xmas holidays. Got a Wyred4Sound ST500 stereo amp to try on the CS2.4. This is using the new ice power modules same as those on BC S500. 1st impressions are definitely better and improved dynamics. Already some are asking me how to relate dynamics in this case.
Thiel CS2.4 is a very much revealing spk, but the BC S300 wasn't able to bring out the best of it. Yes I believe wattage is not that all important but it did gave CS2.4 more headroom to perform. Tracks from Dire straits were played with more gusto, electric guitars stroke was very much technically correct. Played the cd layer of an sacd sampler 6 Telarc Classical track 4 from master & commander theme, volins was really good. Can't find the right words to describe the feeling. Overall classical's soundstage improved dramatically.
I enjoyed myself over the weekend for those nights I played. Many thanks to Ray from Raindrop audio for loaning me the amp. As some might know I still got this high pitched freq emulating from the amp. Which is the ac power at my place at fault. Will need to rectify this problem before I venture further. Altas I would consider ST500 for it's vfm factor.   

Can I claim some credit for this?  A free kopio will do.   ;D

Anyway, waiting for my STI-1000 to arrive from Ray.   ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on December 30, 2009, 17:45
Can I claim some credit for this?  A free kopio will do.   ;D

Anyway, waiting for my STI-1000 to arrive from Ray.   ;D  ;D

wah haha sure... plus a visit to your place to have a listen at your new toy when it arrives? really fast huh you. i last rem you havent decide yet.  :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on December 31, 2009, 13:15
Ok just sharing my findings over Xmas holidays. Got a Wyred4Sound ST500 stereo amp to try on the CS2.4. This is using the new ice power modules same as those on BC S500. 1st impressions are definitely better and improved dynamics. Already some are asking me how to relate dynamics in this case.
Thiel CS2.4 is a very much revealing spk, but the BC S300 wasn't able to bring out the best of it. Yes I believe wattage is not that all important but it did gave CS2.4 more headroom to perform. Tracks from Dire straits were played with more gusto, electric guitars stroke was very much technically correct. Played the cd layer of an sacd sampler 6 Telarc Classical track 4 from master & commander theme, volins was really good. Can't find the right words to describe the feeling. Overall classical's soundstage improved dramatically.
I enjoyed myself over the weekend for those nights I played. Many thanks to Ray from Raindrop audio for loaning me the amp. As some might know I still got this high pitched freq emulating from the amp. Which is the ac power at my place at fault. Will need to rectify this problem before I venture further. Altas I would consider ST500 for it's vfm factor.   

Sound good. May I know what is the cost of STI 1000 or the ST500? In your opinion, how much differnet is there as compare to the current amp you are using?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: lfssbn1 on February 07, 2010, 22:37
DISASTER:

I have a failed 6.5 " woofer in one of my Thiel 1.5 speakers. I've not been able to find a replacement despite speaker to Thiel directly.  If anyone knows of a source, please email me.

Thanks
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 07, 2010, 22:48
I know my friend managed to get a driver replacement for his old 7.2s.

If you are in Singapore, you can try contacting the distributor Sound Decisions. They are in Adelphi Level 4.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on February 08, 2010, 00:02
DISASTER:

I have a failed 6.5 " woofer in one of my Thiel 1.5 speakers. I've not been able to find a replacement despite speaker to Thiel directly.  If anyone knows of a source, please email me.

Thanks

Approach Sound Decisions at 67338227 directly.

You can also email Thiel to send your driver/s directly to them if you're not in Singapore or if you do not have a Thiel representative in your area. AFAIK, Thiel do not have any ready stocks for most of their older models anymore. What they will do is they will refurbish your driver. The cost of which will depend on your driver's fault.
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 16, 2010, 00:11
Can I claim some credit for this?  A free kopio will do.   ;D

Anyway, waiting for my STI-1000 to arrive from Ray.   ;D  ;D

hi bro, so hows the STI-1000 compared to your previous plinius? different right? i may or may not be right but with the Thiels they do require more power in this case Class D.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on February 16, 2010, 00:23
hi bro, so hows the STI-1000 compared to your previous plinius? different right? i may or may not be right but with the Thiels they do require more power in this case Class D.

Yup, sounded very different.  The warmness of the plinius 9200 disappeared totally, replacing with the class D type of clean sound.  Don't think the plinius was underpower for the 2.4.  It is just a different match, different sound.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 16, 2010, 01:45
ok here goes another round of my personal reviews.

Got a special loaner XPA-5 from Quest, dang! its a back breaker at over 30KG. didnt bring trolley, lucky only had a sore backache for a few days. Audio did say i will end up keeping BC S300.  :P but just tought i can hear the emotiva XPA-5 on the Thiels CS2.4, i like to understand what i had missed. the previous UPA-2 didnt have enough juice to drive the 2.4 So with XPA-5 we have 300W raw power at 4ohms.

1st impressions, played thru a few similar usual tests tracks. really very different from BC, emo had a slightly longer bass extension. Yes it is slower, thus giving you that tingleling sensation drums & strings was more pronuouced. the hamonics i had was suppressed by the toriodial transformer on the emo which is now just a very low hum.
Tthat said a few days later, Audio made time to drop by with his BC 1k MK2 to prove a point. i had a friend to help judge on the differences. obviously Audio didnt like emo at all, he mentioned this was not how the CS2.4 should sound. Had him judged that the S300 was not better than the emo (this is on CS2.4 so take it with a pinch of salt, S300 is very much more exp than xpa-5) no comments on this as the S300 didnt had enough juice to drive 2.4
Then comes BC 1k mk2, straight away wah! 2.4 was alive, pure clean power and as always very revealing. as DH previously did mentioned there was an marked improvement from his BC1k when he modded to mk2. Dang he has been listening to mk2 for quite time, and i was with S300.... the attack was there, drums even more pronounced! Soundstage widen by a notch if not more. Clearly it was just above the W4S STI-500 I previously tried, I would expect the STI-1k version to be close. But mk2 with the improved PSU, did made a remarkable difference. We did AB switch over n over in between emo n mk2, noticed the emo was louder, But at the loud level we are listening too, emo falls short and started to distort. Mind you, Audio really turns up really loud. Just below Joamonte super louder level

Anyway I took some time to listen to CS2.4 at its best with the mk2, reminds me on what I heard at sleepytunes place with the better dynamics via BC Ref500s. I have made my audio room to include my HT setup. Talk about best of both worlds, I will need to have both HT and Stereo in 1 setup. Integrating them into 1 will mean the need to match all the speakers I have closer. It is a personal preference and I have made my choice. Hope I do not start another flame war, as I do see more thiels owners with serious powerful amps. I made a mistake getting a small one. Well please do feel free to share on different views.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: sonofdbn on February 17, 2010, 21:13
DJQ, I thought you had been auditioning the Dynaudio C1s? I'm in no position to compare the sound quality, but a thought about matching speakers: AFAIK, Dynaudio doesn't sell speakers individually, but Thiel does. Based on my enquiries, a pair of C1s is roughly the price of three CS2.4s (not forgetting that you would probably want a good pair of stands for the C1s). So to really match the front speakers, Thiel is very tempting.

Of course there would be the issue of positioning the centre speaker - acoustically transparent screen? Retractable?

I think someone on this forum had three identical Thiels for their HT - was it wind30?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on February 17, 2010, 21:45
The observations tally with mine.

The BC300 was adequate with the 1.6 but not really up to driving a 2.3.

Using an Acoustic Reality monobloc based on the ASP1000 module really brought the 2.3 to life. The difference between that and the BC300 was significant.

Between the BC300 and the Hypex UCD400 module, I prefer the Hypex on the 1.6 by a significant margin. Unfortunately I was not able to compare my Hypex with the Acoustic Reality directly.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on February 19, 2010, 10:19
The BC S300 uses the ICEPower ASC200 module, basically the netry level into the Class D ICE module series. The AR on the other hand, uses the better spec'd ASP1000. Not a fair comparison innit? You should have used the BC REF1000 instead or even the cheaper REF500, which is better than the REF1000 in all departments except that little 3dB increase in SPL.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 19, 2010, 10:57
I think there are no more REF1000s in the product line. They are all MKIIs. But rebadged as REF1000M. The REF500 is also rebadged as the REF500M. I guess people were confused there was a MKII on the 1000 and thot the regular 500 was an older model.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 19, 2010, 13:40
DJQ, I thought you had been auditioning the Dynaudio C1s? I'm in no position to compare the sound quality, but a thought about matching speakers: AFAIK, Dynaudio doesn't sell speakers individually, but Thiel does. Based on my enquiries, a pair of C1s is roughly the price of three CS2.4s (not forgetting that you would probably want a good pair of stands for the C1s). So to really match the front speakers, Thiel is very tempting.

Of course there would be the issue of positioning the centre speaker - acoustically transparent screen? Retractable?

I think someone on this forum had three identical Thiels for their HT - was it wind30?

hi bro. yes i were. but due to my busi work schedule, only found time to sit down and write something proper. but i think your price is incorrect. C1 is at a price of two CS2.4s anyway i cant go full Thiels too much budget involved and plus the number of BCs i have to buy... i am not going that direction.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on February 19, 2010, 18:22
You seem to imply that I am comparing Bel Canto with Acoustic Reality.

The point I am making is that both the 1.6 and 2.3 (and probably the 2.4 too) really sing when driven by either the Hypex UCD400 or ICEPower ASP1000 module.

The BC S300 uses the ICEPower ASC200 module, basically the netry level into the Class D ICE module series. The AR on the other hand, uses the better spec'd ASP1000. Not a fair comparison innit? You should have used the BC REF1000 instead or even the cheaper REF500, which is better than the REF1000 in all departments except that little 3dB increase in SPL.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on February 19, 2010, 18:45
You seem to imply that I am comparing Bel Canto with Acoustic Reality.

The point I am making is that both the 1.6 and 2.3 (and probably the 2.4 too) really sing when driven by either the Hypex UCD400 or ICEPower ASP1000 module.


Dude, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thiels, or any other revealing speakers for that matter, prefer amplifiers that can expose these speakers capabilities to their fullest. The Hypex and ASC1000s are just two of many. S300 barely makes the grade but is a good a stepping stone in the right direction. IMHO of course.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on February 19, 2010, 18:48
Is there a SQ difference between the S300 and the M300?

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on February 19, 2010, 22:06
Is there a SQ difference between the S300 and the M300?

(Audio)

IMHO, no. But others may hear different.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 20, 2010, 01:30
Is there a SQ difference between the S300 and the M300?

(Audio)

not for 300... but for the new Ref500s or Ref500M big difference. M will have the new improve power supply just like your mk2s. whereas the S500 just the standard psu same as S300
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on February 20, 2010, 09:57
not for 300... but for the new Ref500s or Ref500M big difference. M will have the new improve power supply just like your mk2s. whereas the S500 just the standard psu same as S300
Correction, S500 is a much improve design over the old 300s. It is a totally different design. It uses the same amp module as the REF500M and custom input stage. It just doesn't use the latter's improved PSU. Sound wise, it can run rings around the 300 AND older REF1000.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 20, 2010, 10:34
Correction, S500 is a much improve design over the old 300s. It is a totally different design. It uses the same amp module as the REF500M and custom input stage. It just doesn't use the latter's improved PSU. Sound wise, it can run rings around the 300 AND older REF1000.
er that's what I meant. I m just stating s300 psu and s500 psu is the same? Or you meant the design on the psu is different?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 20, 2010, 11:25
For Thiels owners, i will be selling my CS2.4 Teak finish. those interested please call Sound Decisions for a quote. this set is coming 3yrs old. Sound Decisions will continue to provide warranty and transport the set to you. so best to buy it thru them for proper warranty record. FYI Teak finish has a premium price tag of $8.8k before discount
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: sonofdbn on February 20, 2010, 11:59
hi bro. yes i were. but due to my busi work schedule, only found time to sit down and write something proper. but i think your price is incorrect. C1 is at a price of two CS2.4s anyway i cant go full Thiels too much budget involved and plus the number of BCs i have to buy... i am not going that direction.

Is my price so incorrect? Based on some rough calculations: Thiel 2.4SE is about $7,700 according to your recent post. So 3 would cost $11,550. According to clitang's C1 sales posting, new pair of C1, including stands, is about $11,600-$12,600.

We could allow for a reduction in the Thiel price for going non-SE (and anyway they probably wouldn't break up a pair of SEs) and non-teak finish, but equally we could allow for some reduction in the C1 price for not going for the piano black lacquer finish. So I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that a pair of C1s costs about as much as three Thiel 2.4s.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 20, 2010, 12:13
2.4SE is US$8000. List price is closer to the 3.7 pricing

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on February 20, 2010, 12:24
Is my price so incorrect? Based on some rough calculations: Thiel 2.4SE is about $7,700 according to your recent post. So 3 would cost $11,550. According to clitang's C1 sales posting, new pair of C1, including stands, is about $11,600-$12,600.

We could allow for a reduction in the Thiel price for going non-SE (and anyway they probably wouldn't break up a pair of SEs) and non-teak finish, but equally we could allow for some reduction in the C1 price for not going for the piano black lacquer finish. So I don't think it's unreasonable to conclude that a pair of C1s costs about as much as three Thiel 2.4s.

ok erm with Teak finish is $7.7k after discount.  SE is abt $11k as DH point out. so up to your own conclusions.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 20, 2010, 12:51
If 6.6k is brand new pricing of regular finish CS2.4.

6.6/2 x 3 = 9.9

So your original estimates not wrong.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on February 20, 2010, 23:43
er that's what I meant. I m just stating s300 psu and s500 psu is the same? Or you meant the design on the psu is different?

No, they not the same as the PSU on the modules are different. The REF series has an additional PSU to reduce onboard PSU noise.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on March 05, 2010, 23:46
Selling my Thiel 2.4... Interested people please refer to echoloft. Thanks...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on March 06, 2010, 11:52
Selling my Thiel 2.4... Interested people please refer to echoloft. Thanks...

Good luck for your sale.

So you are going for CS3.7?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on March 06, 2010, 13:06
Good luck for your sale.

So you are going for CS3.7?

Yes. Really depends if I can sell the 2.4 at a good price.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 06, 2010, 15:39
If going for 3.7, can trade in your 2.4 to sound decision.  Safe the time and pain dealing with low ballers.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 06, 2010, 17:20
At the rate people sell their 2.4s, kinda wonder if there's anything wrong with them haha.

Too bad the asking prices are still high.. was contemplating a multichannel 2.4 system in my daydreams during the last trip (must have been oxygen deprived during the flight) haha

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on March 06, 2010, 17:52
If going for 3.7, can trade in your 2.4 to sound decision.  Safe the time and pain dealing with low ballers.

Yes. Many of them around unfortunately....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 06, 2010, 19:00
Selling my Thiel 2.4.
Why?
What is the rest of your system?
What makes you think the "problem" if any is the 2.4 and that the 3.7 will resolve it?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 06, 2010, 19:55
I think with all things being equal, the 3.7s would offer extensions in the higher and lower registers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 06, 2010, 20:28
IMHO, the 3.7s make the 2.4s sound blur less detailed.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on March 06, 2010, 23:13
Why?
What is the rest of your system?
What makes you think the "problem" if any is the 2.4 and that the 3.7 will resolve it?

I guess there is nothing wrong with CS2.4. I sold my 2.4 because I just want to go for something different. I am not saying that 2.4 is no good. It just like you have drive a Honda Civic for 5 years, you might want to change it to WRX, GTI Golf or Audi A4. Then after you drive an Audi A4 for few years, then you might want to change it to BMW M3, Skyline GTR, or something else.

So I think this is normal process...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on March 06, 2010, 23:13
At the rate people sell their 2.4s, kinda wonder if there's anything wrong with them haha.

Too bad the asking prices are still high.. was contemplating a multichannel 2.4 system in my daydreams during the last trip (must have been oxygen deprived during the flight) haha



same here. Selling my CS2.4 refer to Echoloft.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 06, 2010, 23:25
I think with all things being equal, the 3.7s would offer extensions in the higher and lower registers
Not really significant according the specs from Thiel.
2.4 - Bandwidth (-3 dB): 33 Hz-37 kHz; Amplitude Response: 36 Hz-25 kHz +/-2 dB
3.7 - Bandwidth (-3 dB): 32 Hz - 35 kHz; Frequency response: 33 Hz - 26 kHz  ±2 dB
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 06, 2010, 23:47
I guess there is nothing wrong with CS2.4. I sold my 2.4 because I just want to go for something different. I am not saying that 2.4 is no good. It just like you have drive a Honda Civic for 5 years, you might want to change it to WRX, GTI Golf or Audi A4. Then after you drive an Audi A4 for few years, then you might want to change it to BMW M3, Skyline GTR, or something else.

So I think this is normal process...
Upgrading is OK but upgrading just speakers without upgrading the rest of your system is really not a good idea. You are just not going to get the best out of your new purchase.
The other thing is amp speaker matching. Your existing amp may not be the right match for your new speaker even if its the same speaker brand.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 07, 2010, 00:36
I noticed my 2.4s dug deeper to 20+Hz even below the rated specs. Maybe not at 3dB.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 07, 2010, 02:03
Not really significant according the specs from Thiel.
2.4 - Bandwidth (-3 dB): 33 Hz-37 kHz; Amplitude Response: 36 Hz-25 kHz +/-2 dB
3.7 - Bandwidth (-3 dB): 32 Hz - 35 kHz; Frequency response: 33 Hz - 26 kHz  ±2 dB

Spec do not convey the whole story. To me, the 3.7 is more open, more detailed and gave deeper bass than the 2.4.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 07, 2010, 09:59
I noticed my 2.4s dug deeper to 20+Hz even below the rated specs. Maybe not at 3dB.
Spec do not convey the whole story. To me, the 3.7 is more open, more detailed and gave deeper bass than the 2.4.
What the -3dB standard means is that if you fed the speaker with a 80db signal you would hear 77db. At frequencies below or above the -3dB standard the drop would be greater e.g -10dB which in my example of a 80db signal would be 70dB, something that still very audible. I am sure the 3.7 is a better speaker overall when driven by equivalent amplification in its class but not IMO because it has a wider range.
The other point I am trying to make is that a 5K amp and source maybe right for a 6K speaker but when you upgrade that speaker to something that is 18K that 5K amp and source are now not in the same class as the speaker.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: KKS on March 07, 2010, 10:22
This is part of the fun of hobby ..

1) your HEART tell you to upgrade one of your equip eg Speakers (trigger by 'backside itche')
2) you upgraded , your EARS tell you to upgrade other equips to bring out the best of the new equip
3) you upgraded other/the rest of  equip, your MIND/Wallet tell you that you have the best sound and will never upgrade again
4) you cool down on hifi for a while and the cycle starts again. 

Now come to think of it, maybe the upgrade of other equipments may have more effect on the system -> problem is not due to speakers  ??? :o
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 07, 2010, 13:46
Spec do not convey the whole story. To me, the 3.7 is more open, more detailed and gave deeper bass than the 2.4.

(Audio)

siao liao.. don't poison me leh.. like this I have to put the 2.4SE as rear speakers liao!! and get 3.7s for the front!!! haha

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on March 07, 2010, 14:21
siao liao.. don't poison me leh.. like this I have to put the 2.4SE as rear speakers liao!! and get 3.7s for the front!!! haha



Idea !!! isnt that what you are thinking now? what easier way to get that confirmation by going to Audio's place and have a good listen. He has with him full Thiels setup including Sub, BC mk2, A1UD, AVP.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 07, 2010, 14:57
Actually I thot of picking up some pre-owned 2.4s for surrounds to have same matched drivers across (MCS1 for center). Original budget was the SCS4 for surrounds ;)

Using the 2.4SEs I think is a bit disrespectful to the late Thiel's signature.
:P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on March 07, 2010, 19:16
Spec do not convey the whole story. To me, the 3.7 is more open, more detailed and gave deeper bass than the 2.4.

(Audio)

Bingo! But actually I'm really pleased with the 2.4...! Just need some extras which the 3.7 can give.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: yihyan on March 08, 2010, 11:23
Actually I thot of picking up some pre-owned 2.4s for surrounds to have same matched drivers across (MCS1 for center). Original budget was the SCS4 for surrounds ;)

Using the 2.4SEs I think is a bit disrespectful to the late Thiel's signature.
:P

shift the signature plate to ur the 3.7 :) and you will have 3.7SE :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 08, 2010, 11:30
Even more sacrilegious ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 08, 2010, 17:01
I sense there will be more 3.7 owners soon.......   :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 08, 2010, 17:07
pls dun tempt me leh

I must start small first.. MCS1.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on March 08, 2010, 18:49
pls dun tempt me leh

I must start small first.. MCS1.

Aiya get 3 MCS1 like Audio. Esle get either shsoh's 2.4 or mine straight away problem solved.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 08, 2010, 19:46
Your prices all so high leh.. budgeted for SCS4 niah.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: slkk on March 08, 2010, 22:04
Maybe I can.............. DH/Audio/Shsoh can call me?


Sammy Low
Sound Decisions
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 08, 2010, 23:12
Thanks Sammy :)

Will pop by later this week.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on March 08, 2010, 23:22
Heheh...Looks like another upgrade in the works...:)

Thanks Sammy :)

Will pop by later this week.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 09, 2010, 00:37
Must come to hear before you go to Sammy to write cheque??

*evil evil*

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 09:26
I think you guys are jumping a bit too far ahead leh. I am just going down to listen to the 3.7s in the showroom :) looks like a very crazy upgrade (including home) is needed if I want to go down the dark side.

But I can probably swap out the old CDM CSE for an MCS1 ;) for now.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 09, 2010, 09:35
Heng ah!  I have promised myself I'm not going to change any speakers until my new condo is ready in 2014.   ;D  By then... hehehe 8)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 09:48
You bought a house!!!

Wah!! champion hehe

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 09, 2010, 09:52
You bought a house!!!

Wah!! champion hehe



edited to condo...small condo...before people think I have a house to host a basement HT room.   :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 11:03
I think you guys are jumping a bit too far ahead leh. I am just going down to listen to the 3.7s in the showroom :) looks like a very crazy upgrade (including home) is needed if I want to go down the dark side.

But I can probably swap out the old CDM CSE for an MCS1 ;) for now.



I think you need to bring your:
1. power ampliifers
2. preamp
3. DAC
4. TT/Phono
5. cables
In order to get a true A/B experience you must cut down as many unknown variables as possible hence the list above. You will need to employ a friend or assistant to deliver your equipment to your designated auditioning site. You will need to have a schematic diagram to simulate your setup as well in addition to various resonant enhancing devices that you use to attain your current sonic reproduction i.e. your rack.
However, since your room is a major factor and will never be simulated in a showroom, forget the list. Just listen to the speakers true potential that the dealer will showcase with his equipment. Then it will be up to you to choose what end result that you can live with :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 11:46
Exactly :)

Hence the upgrade bug is looking too damn poisonous, esp when need to handle real estate some more!!!

I do like the idea of an MCS1 for timbre matching the center speaker tho ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 09, 2010, 11:53
I think you need to bring your:
1. power ampliifers
2. preamp
3. DAC
4. TT/Phono
5. cables
In order to get a true A/B experience you must cut down as many unknown variables as possible hence the list above. You will need to employ a friend or assistant to deliver your equipment to your designated auditioning site. You will need to have a schematic diagram to simulate your setup as well in addition to various resonant enhancing devices that you use to attain your current sonic reproduction i.e. your rack.
However, since your room is a major factor and will never be simulated in a showroom, forget the list. Just listen to the speakers true potential that the dealer will showcase with his equipment. Then it will be up to you to choose what end result that you can live with :D

Your suggestion is actually a good one.
I still remember some years back I had decided on a speaker and the vendor asked me to bring in my amp simply because the one at the show room was 250W and mine at home was only 60W.
I would think you should if you are serious on your second visit bring along your source, amplification cables and see how they stack up with what's used in the show room and hear the difference they make with the speakers.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 12:13
Except a lot of my gear is similar to the showroom hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on March 09, 2010, 12:23
I think you need to bring your:
1. power ampliifers
2. preamp
3. DAC
4. TT/Phono
5. cables
In order to get a true A/B experience you must cut down as many unknown variables as possible hence the list above. You will need to employ a friend or assistant to deliver your equipment to your designated auditioning site. You will need to have a schematic diagram to simulate your setup as well in addition to various resonant enhancing devices that you use to attain your current sonic reproduction i.e. your rack.
However, since your room is a major factor and will never be simulated in a showroom, forget the list. Just listen to the speakers true potential that the dealer will showcase with his equipment. Then it will be up to you to choose what end result that you can live with :D


How about a home trail? Can request to bring the speaker to your home to test?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 09, 2010, 12:32
Except a lot of my gear is similar to the showroom hehe
Not identical however. Surely not I/C and Power/Speaker Cables.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 12:43
Was using the speaker cables in one of the setups in the showroom previously.

Fwiw diyer is right. The room plays a bigger role in my current setup vs the gear. Hence need to move some of the gear.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 15:00
How about a home trail? Can request to bring the speaker to your home to test?
Can but are you willing to pay for the transportation costs? Some speakers are massy affairs and require up to 4 people to disassemble an reassemble. Nothing is free. If we get a dollar for every potential, I'll be a millionaire by now! :D

Some dealers do allow home trial depending on the seriousness of the potential buyer. Which ones? Ahh, this depends on your relationship with the said dealer.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 15:06
edited to condo...small condo...before people think I have a house to host a basement HT room.   :P
I've been around to a lot of new launch condos (due to my current occupation) and many do not have the space for a 7.1 system. The only solution is to basically sacrifice a couple of rooms to accomodate a decent HT setup. Maybe thats why soundbars are pretty popular.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 09, 2010, 15:08
Some dealers do allow home trial depending on the seriousness of the potential buyer. Which ones? Ahh, this depends on your relationship with the said dealer.

Dealers like customers that loan equipment and don't return type........:)

(Audio)

Spot my new upgrade in my signature?  DIYer Straits fully understands why..... ha aha haaaa
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 15:12
Dealers like customers that loan equipment and don't return type........:)

(Audio)

Spot my new upgrade in my signature?  DIYer Straits fully understands why..... ha aha haaaa

WTF? You got one? Gave up on the xover right? :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 15:26
Friend wanted to pop by Cabana clustered housing after lunch since it was near work.

Geez, for an almost 2900 sq ft unit with 5 floors, it has a stinking small amount of usable space. I couldn't find ONE room I could comfortably place a pair of 3.7s in.

I think my current master bedroom is larger and more usable than even their largest master bedroom config (which has a glass walkin cabinet blocking the middle). What a freaking bad design.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 15:37
Friend wanted to pop by Cabana clustered housing after lunch since it was near work.

Geez, for an almost 2900 sq ft unit with 5 floors, it has a stinking small amount of usable space. I couldn't find ONE room I could comfortably place a pair of 3.7s in.

I think my current master bedroom is larger and more usable than even their largest master bedroom config (which has a glass walkin cabinet blocking the middle). What a freaking bad design.



Dude, these new homes are not HT friendly as the designers are ignorant to min HT requirement. If you realise the trend is moving away from "wasted" space like a place to hang your clothes to dry.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 16:33
SO consensus is buy new hifi, buy new house?

haha

ps after hearing about one forummer who said he kena warning from the neighbourhood mata (who must be very on.. cos cannot arrest people who whack ambulance driver but can intervene if someone play music too loud), I think I better shelve the idea of placing my system in the master bedroom. Sure die very ugly.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 09, 2010, 16:45
I think I better shelve the idea of placing my system in the master bedroom. Sure die very ugly.

Master bedroom....er....the spouse you meant?

Just take the other bedroom lah.....

(Audio)

PS: I show you how lousy a 3.7 sounds in a typical small HDB bedroom......
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 09, 2010, 18:31
Dealers like customers that loan equipment and don't return type........:)

(Audio)

Spot my new upgrade in my signature?  DIYer Straits fully understands why..... ha aha haaaa

This one...Thiel S1 Integrator?  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 09, 2010, 18:34
I've been around to a lot of new launch condos (due to my current occupation) and many do not have the space for a 7.1 system. The only solution is to basically sacrifice a couple of rooms to accomodate a decent HT setup. Maybe thats why soundbars are pretty popular.

Yup...thus likely only getting a 5.2 BG Radia system for the living room. 

But will still cheong a pair of good stereo bookshelf in the master bedroom...   ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 09, 2010, 19:12
Master bedroom....er....the spouse you meant?

I meant if wife goes to do her postgrad in Oz hehe. But forgot abt the neighbours. Dun wanna kenna mata come n give saman!!!

Just take the other bedroom lah.....

Honestly, none of them have the kind of space to do Thiels justice..

PS: I show you how lousy a 3.7 sounds in a typical small HDB bedroom......

Actually it might look small in the photo but from yr description, still can sit 8 feet away.. buay pai liao!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 09, 2010, 22:42
PS: I show you how lousy a 3.7 sounds in a typical small HDB bedroom......
Are you talking about your own 3.7?
I looked at early pictures of your system in this thread and noticed that your SS2 is parallel to your toe-ed in left speaker.
This means you are not using the wall placement controls on the sub and even if you are they would be off. Why?
I also did not notice a PX05, you did not have it at the time? Are you using one now with the S1 integrator or is there no PX05 at all?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 23:29
Yup...thus likely only getting a 5.2 BG Radia system for the living room. 

But will still cheong a pair of good stereo bookshelf in the master bedroom...   ;D  ;D  ;D

And there goes the Thiels...PSSSST!!! DH! Got bargain Thiel system...! Want or not? I be broker! LOL
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 09, 2010, 23:31
Are you talking about your own 3.7?
I looked at early pictures of your system in this thread and noticed that your SS2 is parallel to your toe-ed in left speaker.
This means you are not using the wall placement controls on the sub and even if you are they would be off. Why?
I also did not notice a PX05, you did not have it at the time? Are you using one now with the S1 integrator or is there no PX05 at all?



The Thiel subs are designed to be placed anywhere in a room even in free space. You just have to know how to tune them. And yes, our friend has the Integrator (finally).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 09, 2010, 23:45
Are you talking about your own 3.7?
I looked at early pictures of your system in this thread and noticed that your SS2 is parallel to your toe-ed in left speaker.
This means you are not using the wall placement controls on the sub and even if you are they would be off. Why?
I also did not notice a PX05, you did not have it at the time? Are you using one now with the S1 integrator or is there no PX05 at all?

Wow!  What sharp eyes you got........

Yes, I am talking about my own 3.7.  And if you have not realized by now that I was merely bullshittng DH.  Knowing fully well that he would not step into my room until he get immune to the prisoning.

To make a long story short, I have not been using the full potential of my SS2 until now.  The SS2 was angled in this fashion to have the longest throw (without being in a corner).  It is actually aiming at the other rear corner of the room.   As for the inaccuracy of the wall placement....."agar agar lah".....anyway I will have to move the SS2 now that I got the S1 and the TAOC isolators.

I did had a PX05 but it wasn't my taste.  My Denon AP had been handling bass management and I am glad to have the S1 now.

The S1 is primarily build for a stereo system but have multiple HT options. In the Augment mode,the signal path to your main speaker never have to go thru the the S1.  Instead S1 either sample your speaker outputs or you provide an line level output from your preamp.  I was  fortunate to have the Denon AVP and I used all the RCA outputs to feed the S1.  In this way, the Balanced Stereo XLR signal were never touched by the S1.  LFE output goes into the S1 by it own dedicated input.

Then what about my Center and Surround channels?  These are handled by a PX05 Passive crossover which sample the MSC-1 speakers outputs.  The output of the passive box is feed into the BRIDGE input of the S1.

If you are "ambitious" like DH who needs 11.X channels in his HT, all you need to do is to buy two PX05 and connect your 9 channels speakers output to the 2 passive crossover boxes and the their outputs goes into the S1 , via the two available BRIDGE inputs. Even a die-hard channels freak can be satisfied by the S1.......

And the bass integration that was brought by the S1 is incredible.  The merging of the bass notes from both 3.7 and SS2 is really easy to achieved.  Spot on, the first time unlike many other subwoofers I had deal with.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 10, 2010, 08:56
Wow!  What sharp eyes you got........

Yes, I am talking about my own 3.7.  And if you have not realized by now that I was merely bullshittng DH.  Knowing fully well that he would not step into my room until he get immune to the prisoning.

To make a long story short, I have not been using the full potential of my SS2 until now.  The SS2 was angled in this fashion to have the longest throw (without being in a corner).  It is actually aiming at the other rear corner of the room.   As for the inaccuracy of the wall placement....."agar agar lah".....anyway I will have to move the SS2 now that I got the S1 and the TAOC isolators.

I did had a PX05 but it wasn't my taste.  My Denon AP had been handling bass management and I am glad to have the S1 now.

The S1 is primarily build for a stereo system but have multiple HT options. In the Augment mode,the signal path to your main speaker never have to go thru the the S1.  Instead S1 either sample your speaker outputs or you provide an line level output from your preamp.  I was  fortunate to have the Denon AVP and I used all the RCA outputs to feed the S1.  In this way, the Balanced Stereo XLR signal were never touched by the S1.  LFE output goes into the S1 by it own dedicated input.

Then what about my Center and Surround channels?  These are handled by a PX05 Passive crossover which sample the MSC-1 speakers outputs.  The output of the passive box is feed into the BRIDGE input of the S1.

If you are "ambitious" like DH who needs 11.X channels in his HT, all you need to do is to buy two PX05 and connect your 9 channels speakers output to the 2 passive crossover boxes and the their outputs goes into the S1 , via the two available BRIDGE inputs. Even a die-hard channels freak can be satisfied by the S1.......

And the bass integration that was brought by the S1 is incredible.  The merging of the bass notes from both 3.7 and SS2 is really easy to achieved.  Spot on, the first time unlike many other subwoofers I had deal with.

(Audio)
Glad to hear you were only joking. I think anyone who owns a Thiel and into HT will be looking to you (the sifu) on how to do things right.
Do key the correct wall distance into the SS2 as I expect this will improve things further.
I have a 2.4 with PX02 and SS1.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 10:14
Your SS2 + S1 poison is damn lethal man..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 11:16
shsoh already on 3.7 poison :P

ps does the S1 do some bass re-eq?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 10, 2010, 11:47
ps does the S1 do some bass re-eq?
Its an electronic XO designed to allow you to integrate any speaker with Thiel Smart Subs.
In a all Thiel HT system like Audio's its clearly the best way to go even though it does cost more than a 2.4. :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 10, 2010, 12:08
shsoh already on 3.7 poison :P

ps does the S1 do some bass re-eq?

Let say that I could make some horrendously compressed Kool and the Gang songs to boogie and sound punchy through the Thiels. It's a wonderful tool.  ;D But to solve your problem, you need an active parametric EQ or something like the Audyssey MultiEQ Pro.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 12:21
Sigh. Looks like the Aus move is inevitable. :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: sonofdbn on March 10, 2010, 12:56
Sigh. Looks like the Aus move is inevitable. :)

You mean you're sending the wife to Aus so that you can use the master bedroom for your hi-fi  ;D? I'm impressed!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 10, 2010, 14:21
shsoh already on 3.7 poison :P

ps does the S1 do some bass re-eq?



No EQ.

And why should it be so??  All natural goodness.....(I am beginning to sound like a Thiel salesman)

(Audio)


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 15:33
I believe the SS1/2 etal have some form of room/boundary compensation dials built in. From all reviews, they seem to do a good job of EQ in a way.

The S1 looks neat but the PX05 should also work as long as it is customized for yr setup, shouldn't it?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 10, 2010, 15:57
I believe the SS1/2 etal have some form of room/boundary compensation dials built in. From all reviews, they seem to do a good job of EQ in a way.

The S1 looks neat but the PX05 should also work as long as it is customized for yr setup, shouldn't it?


Yes.  The bonus of the S1 is to be able to up the level of the SS2 if you want....you cannot do that with the PX02 or PX05.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on March 10, 2010, 16:20
shsoh already on 3.7 poison :P


Yes poison coming soon hopefully....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 20:19
Poison has spread... very badly. Siao Liao
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 10, 2010, 21:10
Another 3.7 owner?

:)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 10, 2010, 23:11
Me take extra dose of vitamin "Ji Ba Gi Qiu Zhang" to immune myself first...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2010, 23:21
@jonless.. BG Radia antidote? ;)

@Audio...Had a listen to the 3.7s in the showroom earlier. The bass extension was noticeably deeper than the 2.4SEs in the same room, that I thought the SS2 was pulling all the extra weight but only found out later it had been disconnected ever since SOMEBODY kapo-ed the S1 Integrator hehe... on extended home loan.

As for me.. still sticking with 2.4SEs for now. I still love how it sounds. Need to run in the new silversmith interconnects. But looks like the TMC XLR cables can be reused for the PX05 when errr I get the SS2s hehe.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 11, 2010, 22:27
I guess the antidote to the poison is just to yield :)

Can't wait to get on the MCS-1/SS2 bandwagon.

Hope I don't have to jump on the S1 wagon too.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 12, 2010, 01:27
Hope I don't have to jump on the S1 wagon too.

How?  :)  Just a matter of time..................

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 01:47
You know I was searching for reviews of the SS2 and remembered this now discontinued model:PCS. I think it's basically a small 2.4. Wonder if there are any pre-owned sets around still. Would make a great surround speaker too :)

Anyway the Soundstage reviewer for the SS2/S1/PX02 said he found he preferred the S1 at 0dB gain mode which in effect was virtually identical to the PX02. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 12, 2010, 02:27
Anyway the Soundstage reviewer for the SS2/S1/PX02 said he found he preferred the S1 at 0dB gain mode which in effect was virtually identical to the PX02. 

Sucking you in....................

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 07:38
I am your young padawan, master Jedi

:)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 12, 2010, 10:40
Anyway the Soundstage reviewer for the SS2/S1/PX02 said he found he preferred the S1 at 0dB gain mode which in effect was virtually identical to the PX02. 
The review I believe was for a stereo system not HT.
Even though my room is probably a little bigger than Audio's, I have often wondered why he chose a SS2 instead of an SS1 but then it occurred to me that its a HT system and also that he has walls of CD shelves on both sides.
It would seem you are trying very hard to avoid the added expense of the S1 but then again until you listen to Audio's system you won't know for sure if you can live without it.
You may want to consider 2 SS1s instead of a single SS2 and adding the S1 may make the padawan as good if not better than the master.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 10:43
Wouldn't have space for 2 subs :P

Right now even have to work out what to do with my SVS PB12 ISD/V
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 12, 2010, 10:53
Wouldn't have space for 2 subs :P

Right now even have to work out what to do with my SVS PB12 ISD/V

The SS1 is good enough for you. Get one first and add the other one later.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 11:17
I dunno if it's my imagination but I think the bass is abit over emphasized on the left side closer to the wall and am hoping putting the SS2 closer to the right may help compensate a bit.. but from all reports the subs are supposed to be invisible
:)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 12, 2010, 12:01
For stereo, I'm sure the SS1 or SS2 will blend in well with the thiels.  However, if it is for HT, I found the SS2 a little lack of punch.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 15:57
Actually after Jag tweaked my old subwoofer with the DEQ2496, there was less bass quantity but more bass quality. :) Will have to see how the SS2 performs in my room.

That said, I recall SD seems to tweak their subs differently than for shock and awe.

Even with the old SS2 and the new BG Radia .4s the bass performance was more like a large full range speaker rather than 4 big subwoofers. This works better with music and symphonic scores/soundtracks. But I remember there were different settings in the bass settings of the BG Radia so a quick dial is all that's needed to get thundering bass if that was needded. I think the S1 integrator also provides this flexibility to augment/boost the bass response.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 21:16
Kancheong spider just bought 8 new TAOC footers for a non existent sub and non existent speaker stand. Yet.

Also placed order for a TAOC rack. Anyone want a 9 month old Atacame Equinox rack?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on March 12, 2010, 21:36
Kancheong spider just bought 8 new TAOC footers for a non existent sub and non existent speaker stand. Yet.

Also placed order for a TAOC rack. Anyone want a 9 month old Atacame Equinox rack?

which model and pricing??
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 12, 2010, 23:42
(http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/resources/products/image1/atacamaequinoxpro.jpg)

Anyone want?

Hehe

Francis, got the newer ASR 4 tier rack. It's abt the same height as the 3 rack Atacama. So don't block the screen :)

Can still keep the Atacama but thot of getting a second one to match alongside. I need two topshelves for the two turntables anyway.  
 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 13, 2010, 11:13
(http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/resources/products/image1/atacamaequinoxpro.jpg)

Can still keep the Atacama but thot of getting a second one to match alongside. I need two topshelves for the two turntables anyway.  
 

Don't resist the temptation off TAOC lah...not matching everyday stare at it ur backside sure itchy.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 13, 2010, 12:01
It's not the extra cost but the fact wife will yell if I have more junk in the house. Need to get rid of the Atacama first.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on March 13, 2010, 13:31
Kancheong spider just bought 8 new TAOC footers for a non existent sub and non existent speaker stand. Yet.

Also placed order for a TAOC rack. Anyone want a 9 month old Atacame Equinox rack?

Hi Bro

Can share the price of hte ARS Taoc rack and the footers? 3 or 4 tiers? From X-Audio?

I am looking for a 3 or 4 tier rack.

Thank you
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 13, 2010, 16:10
The 4 tier ARS shd be selling for $2250. The spikes and supports are an extra accessory.

The footers? Depends on the model. There are a number of different models for different uses. I bought a second set of the PTSA or something which is what Audio and I were using for supports under our speakers. Abt 200 per set of 4.   

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 14, 2010, 02:04
Because of my asymmetrical speaker layout, I began noticing that the bass seemed to be more pronounced coming from the left side where there was some corner reinforcement.

To be honest, this wasn't obvious in the beginning and it was only after I cleaned up the power and used the TAOC footers, that it became noticeable. 

On a hunch, I redid the Audyssey EQ on my AVR just to verify if I was imagining it. There was a 1dB level difference also confirmed by my trusty RadioShack SPL. And when I looked at the EQ curves, there was a -20dB gain applied to 50Hz on the left channel vs 0 on the right.

On my hifi setup, there was obviously no such compensation.

After discussing with gurus with way more experience than I, I took their advice to toe in the left speaker. There was no exact science and measurement to it. I just nudged the speaker to toe it in a bit, went back to the listening position, took a listen and gauged how the sound changed then went back to nudge it again. A bit to the left, then back to keep the tweeter distance of each speaker from the listening position to be as close as possible the same.

Think this kinda solved it. Gonna find some time to rerun Audyssey on the AVR to see if my adjustments pan out. But overall, when I put in the BluSpec Miles Davis CD I just borrowed, the imbalance seemed to be gone.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 14, 2010, 12:24
Because of my asymmetrical speaker layout, I began noticing that the bass seemed to be more pronounced coming from the left side where there was some corner reinforcement.

To be honest, this wasn't obvious in the beginning and it was only after I cleaned up the power and used the TAOC footers, that it became noticeable. 

On a hunch, I redid the Audyssey EQ on my AVR just to verify if I was imagining it. There was a 1dB level difference also confirmed by my trusty RadioShack SPL. And when I looked at the EQ curves, there was a -20dB gain applied to 50Hz on the left channel vs 0 on the right.

On my hifi setup, there was obviously no such compensation.

After discussing with gurus with way more experience than I, I took their advice to toe in the left speaker. There was no exact science and measurement to it. I just nudged the speaker to toe it in a bit, went back to the listening position, took a listen and gauged how the sound changed then went back to nudge it again. A bit to the left, then back to keep the tweeter distance of each speaker from the listening position to be as close as possible the same.

Think this kinda solved it. Gonna find some time to rerun Audyssey on the AVR to see if my adjustments pan out. But overall, when I put in the BluSpec Miles Davis CD I just borrowed, the imbalance seemed to be gone.
This one sided toe-in did not affect imaging?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 14, 2010, 14:40
I didn't think the soundstage collapsed noticeably. But it was a lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on March 14, 2010, 14:53


After discussing with gurus with way more experience than I,...........

Hi, may I know this guru? would like to pay his system a visit and learn from him... :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 14, 2010, 15:02
DIYer made a similar adjustment when he set up the speakers on delivery but I nudged it back after I read the manual. XAudio also suggested the same.

But it may not be what you look for in your system.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on March 14, 2010, 15:18
DIYer made a similar adjustment when he set up the speakers on delivery but I nudged it back after I read the manual. XAudio also suggested the same.

But it may not be what you look for in your system.

I have read this method long ago , but so far I never get good result by using this method in non asymmetric room, especially in non near field listening situation .... was curious to what extend this method can help the imbalance.

BTW IMHO, the 50hz 20 dB imbalance is too low frequency and could not be the reason you heard the imbalance, it could be the 2nd harmonic at 100 hz or 3rd harmonic 150 hz that create problem.

 :)





Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: sagibit on March 14, 2010, 16:24
After discussing with gurus with way more experience than I, I took their advice to toe in the left speaker. There was no exact science and measurement to it. I just nudged the speaker to toe it in a bit, went back to the listening position, took a listen and gauged how the sound changed then went back to nudge it again. A bit to the left, then back to keep the tweeter distance of each speaker from the listening position to be as close as possible the same.

Think this kinda solved it. Gonna find some time to rerun Audyssey on the AVR to see if my adjustments pan out. But overall, when I put in the BluSpec Miles Davis CD I just borrowed, the imbalance seemed to be gone.

imho, just toeing your left speaker only may affect your stereo imaging and not reduce your boom at 50Hz significantly. I will suggest play a 50Hz test tone 1st and try moving your speaker front/back by a few inches. Determine the position where there is least bass reinforcement/boom at 50Hz. imho, moving your speaker front/back even by a mere few inches will have more effect in reducing the boom at 50Hz as compared to toeing the left speaker at the same position.

Next play a test track which has both channels out of phase. Adjust the toe in of both left and right speaker such that you are having "surround sound" and not be able to determine a clearly defined source where the sound is coming from. Your stereo imaging will be greatly improved and you should be able to hear a difference once you playback a familiar stereo track. pm me if you need test tones for setup. it worked for me but ymmv.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 14, 2010, 18:44
I found shifting the speakers towards the listening position did reduce the 50Hz boom a little but there was still a disparity between the left and right side. Ie the left still had the stronger bass response.

Shifting the speakers forwards also collapsed the sound stage more. FWIW, I prefer to be further from the speakers than closer. I believe Audio had a similar experience. 

Shifting the speakers back merely reinforced the bass more again with the imbalance. 

The toe in on one side helped with the bass reinforcement. Perhaps the bass buster in the corner helped a lot.

As for imaging, as mentioned earlier, I had to nudge the speakers left and right a little each time until I got it reasonably close to center. It's not perfect though. I found at different listening levels, that imbalance is still there.

The short answer is that there is no real cure for unbalanced room layouts. But guess we just have to find a compromise we can live with. 
 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 15, 2010, 09:46
The short answer is that there is no real cure for unbalanced room layouts.
Why don't you get Joamonte to check out your system and see what he can do, suggest?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 15, 2010, 10:58
There's a limit on how much treatment I can do, the left side is a full length window.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 15, 2010, 11:35
Master bedroom,
Master bedroom,
Master bedroom,
Master bedroom,
Master bedroom,
Master bedroom,
...........................................   :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 15, 2010, 12:33
There's a limit on how much treatment I can do, the left side is a full length window.
Why not get expert advice?
Joamonte would clearly have more experience at this than you.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on March 15, 2010, 13:02
 yes I agree there are no easy cure for a asymmetric in HDB living room...if able to achieve 80%correct imaging(affected major by mid high) with 60% correct sound stage(affected largely by bass) it is already consider good already, so I can't help much either..

the only 2 situation you can get 90% imaging and 90% sound stage with asymmetric layout is, either you seat less than 3 ft from speaker and play average lower than 80dB all the time, or have a hall that 3 time larger than our HDB room (so that all room reflection return to you 20 ms later than the direct sound).... LOL!

 ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 15, 2010, 13:48
Master bedroom MAster Bedrrooom, MaaaasterBEDroomm, MASTER BEDroom,  MASter Bed room, MaSTer BeDRoommm...... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jimi on March 15, 2010, 13:55
There's a limit on how much treatment I can do, the left side is a full length window.

Concrete block in front of the window??  :P

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on March 15, 2010, 14:05
Concrete block in front of the window??  :P

 ;D ;D


No. that will not help.....he should built a full length window on right side too.... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 15, 2010, 15:29
Master bedroom MAster Bedrrooom, MaaaasterBEDroomm, MASTER BEDroom,  MASter Bed room, MaSTer BeDRoommm...... :D

You guys are horrible leh!! it's like asking for the lawyer to step in :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 15, 2010, 15:39
Concrete block in front of the window??  :P

I think this is even worse than the moving stuff to bedroom... and that's already a deal breaker ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 15, 2010, 16:08
Add another partition wall on the right, and get an artist to paint a pic of ur wife on the new wall to express your love for her...

All for the sake of balance bass...  :p
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 15, 2010, 16:18
You guys are really bad influences ;)

Singapore apartments are already so cramped and u guys want to build more partitions!!?

TBH the bedroom is the best solution but you guys didn't read abt the guy who kena complain from police for playing music in his bedroom!!!?? I damn scared man.. some more master bedroom and integrated with HT system. I tend to watch shows till late on Fri/Sat (usu up to 1am) and so far so good with the set in living room...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on March 15, 2010, 17:16
Only one way to find out is to try.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jimi on March 15, 2010, 19:33

[/quote]

Concrete block in front of the window??  :P

 ;D ;D

I think this is even worse than the moving stuff to bedroom... and that's already a deal breaker ;)

ok, 2nd try: swap the master bed and living room ;) ha ha!

(sounds awful even in jest ;D ;D)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on March 15, 2010, 20:14
TBH the bedroom is the best solution but you guys didn't read abt the guy who kena complain from police for playing music in his bedroom!!!?? I damn scared man.. some more master bedroom and integrated with HT system. I tend to watch shows till late on Fri/Sat (usu up to 1am) and so far so good with the set in living room...
well, my setups have always been in my bedroom.. dun feel all that bad and have never gotten complaints. :)
one good  benefit is that i can listen to music before going to bed and just after waking up while getting ready to go to work.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 21, 2010, 00:28
On paper the Thiel 3.7s don't seem a particularly big jump over the 2.4s but after listening to both in the showroom with all else remaining equal.. the 3.7s definitely extend more into the lower registers than the 2.4s and noticeably more than the specs would suggest (just 1Hz at 3dB).

On the highs and midrange, have to say the 3.7s sounded warmer than the 2.4s. Still detailed and extended but may appear less bright than the 2.4s.

Last night managed to meet up with Audio and francis.

Really envious of francis large space. Can't find places this conducive for hifi any more. More than just the space was how isolated the unit was from other units, with the exception of neighbours upstairs and downstairs.

Didn't keep track of the time at Audio's place.. no idea it was already past 11 :P sorry bro for overstaying the welcome.

Audio's setup made me really crave the SS2 even more. I never ever thought my 2.4s were weak in the bass department but in combination with the SS2, his 3.7s really dug deep.

The only thing I might have enjoyed more in my home setup is Transformers because the DSX processing dialed up the immersion factor another notch. In the scenes where the robots were fighting in the jungle, the sense of the robots moving all around the viewer was much more apparent with the wides and surround backs.

But everything else.. sigh, the SS2/3.7 really tango-ed. Wasn't really all that keen on MJ's This is It, but listening to Black or White on that setup was just amazing. I tried playing back the same AIFF on my iphone on my car system and back home later with the 2.4s but just couldn't replicate that seamless extension into another octave or so lower.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 21, 2010, 01:00
Just ordered Brothers in Arms, and 2 Genesis SACDs from Amazon

:P

Audio poison damn strong..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 21, 2010, 01:03
On paper the Thiel 3.7s don't seem a particularly big jump over the 2.4s but after listening to both in the showroom with all else remaining equal.. the 3.7s definitely extend more into the lower registers than the 2.4s and noticeably more than the specs would suggest (just 1Hz at 3dB).
On the highs and midrange, have to say the 3.7s sounded warmer than the 2.4s. Still detailed and extended but may appear less bright than the 2.4s.
Both the 3.7 and 2.4 where placed in the exact same position when you listened to them in the showroom?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 21, 2010, 01:16
There was abt 4 feet from the side walls and back walls, with the speakers abt 8 feet apart. Listening position was abt 8 feet away.

Haven't you heard the 3.7s and 2.4s in the same showroom in KL?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 21, 2010, 01:20
Spent some time to adjust the speakers' positions again.

Tried toe-ing in both as suggested by some but there was noticeably more sibilance in that configuration. Tried adjusting the toe in at the listening position and then behind the listening position. Oddly enough, Audio's toeing in doesn't seem to increase sibilance. Not sure if this is due to the new driver.

In the end, I ended up closer to the Thiel's recommendations, firing straight ahead. The only compromise is that I have to turn down the listening level. At that level, the imbalance in the bass on the left side isn't noticeable.

Will tweak further when I get the SS2. :) Can't wait.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on March 21, 2010, 01:21
Just ordered Brothers in Arms, and 2 Genesis SACDs from Amazon

:P

Audio poison damn strong..

now there is no turning back.  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 21, 2010, 08:51
There was abt 4 feet from the side walls and back walls, with the speakers abt 8 feet apart. Listening position was abt 8 feet away.

Haven't you heard the 3.7s and 2.4s in the same showroom in KL?

Let me rephrase my original question, did you hear the 3.7 and 2.4 one after the other in the same position?
I have only heard the 3.7 in Singapore and I would attribute any difference (shinier, more glitter) to source and amplification when compared to my 2.4

Currently I have no compelling reason to upgrade to the 3.7 but will do so eventually which is why I am paying close attention to those who are planning to upgrade.
Thiels are known for being brutally honest so I would look at your source rather than the Thiels for your sibilance.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 21, 2010, 10:22
I actually did. This was a while back when I was auditioning the 2.4SEs and the 3.7s were the ones installed. Both sets were on display and it took a bit of effort to move the speakers around.

The gear the was olivetree driving DAC3 non VB over optical to LAMM preamp to REF1000MkIIs. Cables were Silversmith.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 21, 2010, 12:19
On paper the Thiel 3.7s don't seem a particularly big jump over the 2.4s but after listening to both in the showroom with all else remaining equal.. the 3.7s definitely extend more into the lower registers than the 2.4s and noticeably more than the specs would suggest (just 1Hz at 3dB).
On the highs and midrange, have to say the 3.7s sounded warmer than the 2.4s. Still detailed and extended but may appear less bright than the 2.4s.
The differences if any are due to the room not the speakers. The specs are from measurements in an anechoic chamber i.e you measure the speaker and not the speaker+room. So really there is no such thing as a current Thiel model being warmer than another current Thiel model as they will all measure very close to the +/- 2dB variance. My understanding is that the three Thiel models are actually for different room sizes and different listening volumes due to the size of the room. The only other difference is sensitivity, the 3.7 being at 90dB/m.
Lets put it this way my next upgrade will be a 2.5 (if and when that comes out). :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 21, 2010, 12:32
I am not the only one to comment on the "relative" warmness of the 3.7s. This isn't a B&W level of warmth-ness mind you ;) just that it was noticeable after the 2.4s in the same setup. I think the Stereophile review commented on that as well.

Anyway.. back to the 3.7 vs 2.4

These are Stereophile's measurements (excluding room effects)

(http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/1208T37fig6.jpg)

(http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/theC24fig3.jpg)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: RabPaul on March 21, 2010, 23:05
These are Stereophile's measurements (excluding room effects)
Stereophile's measurements are not made in a anechoic chamber but in their listening room which in theory represent a typical listening room.
I am not doubting what you heard, just saying the differences are caused by speaker/room interaction rather than the speakers.
You will get different results with different rooms as with any other speaker.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on March 22, 2010, 06:22
Stereophile's measurements are not made in a anechoic chamber but in their listening room which in theory represent a typical listening room.


hmmmm.....Stereophile's speaker measurements are consider as quasi-anechoic by using MLS software, it will get same result as a anechoic chamber ~~~if any room+speaker able to get the smooth measured result shown in their measurement graph, it must be a super audio room that all sound engineer dream of already ,IMO... ;D

read this..

http://www.stereophile.com/features/103/index.html

Explain their method in simple English mean ,

1)For above 200Hz measurement, they place the mic 50" from the speaker , and because sound travel appox 12" per msec , they set the MLS software to ignore any sound pick up by the mic appox 4 msec AFTER the mic have received the speaker sound ,and this enable the software to measure sound produce directly from speaker WITHOUT pick up any room reflection,it will give the same result as a anechoic chamber as long as there are no reflection within 4ft between the mic and speaker.

2)For low frequency, they place the mic very near to the woofer or port, as long as the distance to the woofer is shorter than the wavelength of 300Hz (1.14 meter), the bass the software measure will behave somehow like a anechoic chamber without any room standing wave interference (below 300Hz).

And than they combine the 2 measurement together to get a quasi-anechoic FR from 20Hz to 20Khz

 :)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 22, 2010, 09:24
Yeap, joamonte covered what I wanted to say (and more articulately) ;)

There's a different chart which shows the measurements in the reviewer's room, which I did not reproduce here which has the room effects shown.

FWIW, I am not saying the room doesn't make a difference but in the same room and all else being equal, the 3.7s would dig deeper than the 2.4s. If I am reading it right, that's abt 10Hz lower even if it may not be 3dB deviation across the frequency range.

I suspect that in your case, yr SS1 sub helps with extending the low end so the disparity may not be as obvious.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on March 22, 2010, 13:46
Looking at their measurement, the on axis measurement of 2.4 show a little dip at 1- 3 kHz, and suddenly rise above 3 kHz , this could be the reason why toe in the 2.4 increased  sibilance, but the excess energy of 3khz above should be a able to softer when measure off axis, can check the polar pattern of 2.4 to check about that later......3.7 on the other hand show much smoother on axis reaponse from 1 kHz and above,this can be the reason why able to toe in more and sound "less bright" compare to 2.4....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 23, 2010, 15:58
Can't wait to hook up the MCS1 tonight.. with the REF500M to power it.

Next up.. SS2. Mmmmmm... I think I think abt hifi more than I do abt sex (hehe) but that's maybe cos of my age.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 23, 2010, 16:15

Next up.. SS2. Mmmmmm... I think I think abt hifi more than I do abt sex (hehe) but that's maybe cos of my age.



I sincerely hope your spouse don't visit Xtremeplace much.......  :)

or else, your HK trip is really at stake......tsk tsk.

(Audio)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 23, 2010, 16:33
If DH's wife see this post, the HK trip will still go on, but it will be "don't touch me" while in HK!  ;p
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 23, 2010, 16:38
I think at our age, it's a GOOD thing to our wives that we don't think abt sex so much

hehe.

Now headache.. dunno how to arrange my rack around the MCS1..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 23, 2010, 20:38
With the AW1 already hooked up last night in anticipation of the MCS1 and BelCanto REF500M, hooking up the new stuff was fairly easy :)

just had to move the Thorens and B&W CDM CSE out of the way first.

Now listening/watching The Hit Man bluray borrowed from francis and amazed at the clarity of the new speakers. Oddly enough the bass seems tauter as well. I didn't notice the same running in pains as I did on the Thiel CS2.4. Then again, this is a pre-owned set but not sure how it has been used

There is also some warmth just a little but still unexpected after listening to Audio's MCS1 center the other night. I wonder if the REF500M vs REF1000M made that difference.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 23, 2010, 22:21
DH, u are using the AW1 as?

PS : I guess s#x is out of the question tonight?   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 23, 2010, 22:26
Wireless interconnect for the AVR to LR and now C.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on March 23, 2010, 23:11
Huh, u use wireless to replace the analog interconnect from avr to ur BC monoblocks?

Wu sa la bo?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 23, 2010, 23:19
The monoblocks are primarily for the hifi setup :)

Eventually would have to move my gear around to place the HT and hifi setup closer to each other. But for now the AW1 works pretty well.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on March 24, 2010, 00:39
Could you believe this??

Thiel MSC-1 driven by a Bel Canto RefM500Mk2.....connect to a ...ahem....wireless link...to the Denon 4810.

Francis and I were beyond words when he showed us his AW1 during coffee break in Adephi last Friday.  Weird faces we made!!

I can imagine the look on jonlee's face now as well....

Fxxk the wireless....I rather step on cable anytime!

(Audio)

And you want the same warmth as Audio's MSC-1 using a wireless link?  Audio using AudioQuest to connect you know!!

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 24, 2010, 01:20
The comments abt the speakers were in stereo mode where I am using Silversmith Audio cables. And also in reference to the showroom setup.
:)

Right now, it's a compromise getting the HT and stereo setup to work together so the AW1 is the glue.

The alternative is to use my old very very long Belden speaker cables from my AV rack to the center speaker but I doubt that would be a good solution either.

I wasn't expecting much from them but I did a frequency response sweep of the Thiels over the AW1 and was surprised the SQ deterioration wasn't as bad.

Here are some reviews
http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/audioengine_aw1.htm
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/accessories-products-menu-column3-49/395-a-secrets-wireless-review.html

Compared to a not so recent NAD CD C521i player
Quote
In overall performance, the AW1 gave up little to the NAD player. Omer Avital’s excellent solo "Bass Introduction," from his The Ancient Art of Giving [CD, Smalls SRCD-0014], was detailed, conveying the bassist’s fingertip slides along the strings without making them sound screechy or etched. Acoustic upper-bass notes were somewhat boomy, though the heavy bottom end of "Canned Heat," from Jamiroquai’s Synkronized [CD, Japanese Sony OK 66973 2], was clean and melodious. The AW1 also passed my favorite test track of rock drumming. Though it hardly qualifies as a torture test, the sound of Nigel Preston’s drums on The Cult’s "She Sells Sanctuary," from Love [CD, Beggar’s Banquet USA 80065], is, to me, the epitome of how a rock drum kit should sound. Through the AW1, the rich, sharp crack of Preston’s snare was as viscerally pleasing as ever.

Quote
Sound quality was as claimed, good CD quality... Indoors, I was more than satisfied as I felt it lost nothing in the transmission. Would I replace my $1,300 Benchmark DAC for the W1? No, but the differnence was not as much as you would imagine.

If it helps, I am using Audio Note cables as interconnects to the AW1 haha, but these were from my headfi days.

Rest assured I'll do the MCS1 more justice when I get to move my gear around :) but that's a bigger task than I can handle right now. And yes, I'll get yr Audioquest cables
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 24, 2010, 01:32
(http://i41.tinypic.com/f234og.jpg)

No idea how big the MCS-1s were compared to the B&W CDM CSE. Currently isolated using the TAOC TITE-35ES
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: stealth on March 24, 2010, 08:20
No idea how big the MCS-1s were compared to the B&W CDM CSE. Currently isolated using the TAOC TITE-35ES

Now, I know why your wifey not happy with the cables at the back  ;D

The fan on the floor is to help blow the sound more wider isit? ;D ;D

LOL...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 24, 2010, 09:16
hehe personally would love to move the fan away and install a second rack ;)

but wife prefers to use the fan when we aren't watching movies.

The cabling at the back is just getting quite ridiculous.. I don't even have that many components!! A part of it is cos I unplugged/removed stuff and left the cables all behind.. cos it was getting too complex.

I really need to unplug everything and start anew :)

Guess a new rack would help hehe

And Audio's Audioquest cables...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 24, 2010, 23:31
Looks like the MCS1 isn't really run in yet. Wasn't obvious in HT duties and even in multi channel SACDs cos most of the vocals came from the LR channels.

But seems quite power intensive and loud to run in the center channel with the AVR belting out all day. So managed to plug in a Zune running in mono mode. Easier to run in the speakers during the day.

This was when I noticed some slight slowness in the bass response. Not as bad as the 2.4s when new but still noticeable. Another 100 hours I guess. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 27, 2010, 01:29
Had planned to go out for a midnight movie but the missus wasn't too keen and neither was I.

Wanted to put on a movie but I noticed I had the David Foster's The Hit Man on BluRay that I got from francis inside the Denon 4010, so decided to resume where I last left off.

Wife protested and said we should start from the beginning (cos I had watched the first Act without her last night), and I obliged.

Ended up spending the next 2 hours just enjoying the music from this great disc. It's a bit of nostalgia, I guess.. having grown up with so many of his songs. And some of the new rearrangements were pretty amazing. I actually got the CD of this concert a while back but watching the show live lends it an incredible amount of energy. Audio is right. again :) bluray may be the way forward. For one thing, my wife doesn't seem to object so much when I play it loud (she does when I listen to stereo)

Anyway, I am not sure if it is cos the MCS1 had gotten some run in or maybe it's just that I was watching a music title (rather than a movie/action flick) that I didn't notice the missing sub at all tonight. The bass was still nicely tight and had that kick (altho not as much kick as when I was watching This Is It BR at Audio's place) and that 2 hours just passed by so quickly... enjoying every minute of it.

Can't wait to get the SS2 installed next Saturday after I get back from my trip!!

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on March 27, 2010, 10:00
Keep the copy.  I will buy another one for meself...... :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on March 28, 2010, 18:04
Yes, the Thiel 3.7 arrived a few days ago and what a speaker it is! I thought that the 2.4 will be tough to beat but the 3.7 is obviously in another class of its own. Using the same setup in my 4 x 3m room, the Thiel 3.7 gives flesh to the music from the 2.4 which is the most apparent observation when I hooked up the speaker. The bass is obviously much deeper and more importantly very very tight. It makes the bass of the 2.4 now sounds messy, bloated and undefined. Indeed, the 2.4 now sounds amateurish compared to the 3.7.

Well, these are from just about 2 days of observation. For now, I can summarize that listening to the 2.4 is like hearing a musical recording while listening to the 3.7 is akin to experiencing a musical performance.

Can wait to get back from my vacation to spend time with the Thiel 3.7. More to come in 2 weeks time!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 29, 2010, 09:54
Thanks for the offer Francis. Pay you when I get back :)

shsoh, you got a great deal on the 3.7s. :) it had just finished running in to boot.

What's the rest of your gear?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 31, 2010, 01:41
I shd stop reading 3.7 reviews.

Bad for health.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on April 01, 2010, 10:46
I shd stop reading 3.7 reviews.

Bad for health.

doggie, not bad for health, but bad for wallet.... :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 01, 2010, 11:32
All this is POISON :)

That's why bad for health

Gonna concentrate hobby on something else... just ordered the ipad thru a friend hehe

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on April 01, 2010, 11:58
Thanks for the offer Francis. Pay you when I get back :)

shsoh, you got a great deal on the 3.7s. :) it had just finished running in to boot.

What's the rest of your gear?

Well I'll still do some running in by playing vinyl to work out those woofers. I'm using an Ayre V1x to push the 3.7.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 01, 2010, 12:36
U need to run in meh? :) I thot the unit was just past its burn in mark
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on April 01, 2010, 12:56
Of course still need. I have used a Metallica lp to torture the woofers.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 01, 2010, 16:40
No need run-in.  The speakers already spectacular since day one, unlike others.......  :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 01, 2010, 17:10
No need run-in.  The speakers already spectacular since day one, unlike others.......  :)

(Audio)
tsk tsk... Good food must queue and wait. A1UD must wait for it to load. Some spks takes time to shine it's best after run-in. Isn't it the same thing? Good things are always worth the wait. Patience mah. You say de wor.   :P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 01, 2010, 17:36
tsk tsk... Good food must queue and wait. A1UD must wait for it to load. Some spks takes time to shine it's best after run-in. Isn't it the same thing? Good things are always worth the wait. Patience mah. You say de wor.   :P

Yes, good food must quene.....but this analogy cannot be applied to everything.  It was used in regards to loading time of disc players.

Does it mean that when one take in food, your initial taste have to be bad and after taking in more, the taste is suppose to improve with every bite?

If we keep on using this "run-in" excuse, then we will never be able to separate the good from the bad.......

If you keep the system on 24/7 and playing music through it to clock the run-in hours, are you "running-in" or you are"wearing-out" your system?    How would you know?

(Audio)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 01, 2010, 18:00
eh..MCS1 and 2.4 oso gotta run in.. remember 3.7 oso supposed to.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 01, 2010, 18:12
eh..MCS1 and 2.4 oso gotta run in.. remember 3.7 oso supposed to.

Run In...or Wear Out?

I never like this kind of excuses...

It should sound good when it's new....if it get better with "run-in", then OK.....

Don't ask me to accept a bad sound and ask me to "run-in" to cure it.....not acceptable.

(Audio)



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 01, 2010, 18:26
I believe Thiel said in an interview that when he was upgrading the 2.4 to SE, he also had to use a lot of time to run in the caps.

Similar to car engines what.. takes some time for the mechanicals to run in.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jimi on April 01, 2010, 19:16
Run In...or Wear Out?

I never like this kind of excuses...

It should sound good when it's new....if it get better with "run-in", then OK.....

Don't ask me to accept a bad sound and ask me to "run-in" to cure it.....not acceptable.

(Audio)
Eh, I don't think they mean it has a bad sound now and will become a great sound with run-in.

AFAIK 90% of the sound is there out of the box but it becomes much more refined and supple later on. Its true that if it
was 'bad' at 90% the last 10% isn't gonna make much difference.

Maybe its a bit like a new gearbox and one which is a few months old. Or maybe its also partly the listener's ears that get run it/
better attuned to the new level of details  :P

Didn't your cables sound a bit better with time?


I don't think 100-300hrs run-in will wear out the speakers, I'd expect that kind of time to be
neglible wrt to the speakers' lifetime.

Besides, who hasn't fallen asleep listening to music is that unnecessary wearing out??  ;D ;D



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 01, 2010, 19:42
any 3.7 driven by tube pre & power?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 01, 2010, 22:07
Yes, good food must quene.....but this analogy cannot be applied to everything.  It was used in regards to loading time of disc players.
Does it mean that when one take in food, your initial taste have to be bad and after taking in more, the taste is suppose to improve with every bite?
If we keep on using this "run-in" excuse, then we will never be able to separate the good from the bad.......
If you keep the system on 24/7 and playing music through it to clock the run-in hours, are you "running-in" or you are"wearing-out" your system?    How would you know?
(Audio)

How would you know? Time will Tell, some things just cannot explain. its just the way it is. if this analog cannot apply, i do not know what esle can. practise makes perfect?  ::)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 03, 2010, 14:25
Yummy. The ss2 is here!! Thanks to Sam and Sam for arranging this so quickly. If there's any consolation for cutting short my trip and missing the ipad launch, this more than makes up for it.

Just did level matching and played thru some Chris Botti and some DD TV shows.

Sounds pretty amazing. There's a rightness to how the bass feels. Faster and tighter.

Needs to get Transformers II and Star Trek on it asap.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 03, 2010, 15:40
Doogie, u are using the passive crossover or the active integrator?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 03, 2010, 16:54
Right now using AVR for bass management. The px05 hasn't arrived yet. Did get a loaner for a px05 but not for my speakers. May try it later in stereo mode.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 03, 2010, 17:43
I had auditioned the SS2 previously to upgrade from my 12" earthquake.  However, when comparing the SS2 with a 15" earthquake, the 15" has more oomph for HT.

So decided to give both a miss and stick with my 12" earthquake.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 03, 2010, 18:53
I had auditioned the SS2 previously to upgrade from my 12" earthquake.  However, when comparing the SS2 with a 15" earthquake, the 15" has more oomph for HT.

So decided to give both a miss and stick with my 12" earthquake.

Jonlee, I would agree with your observation.  The SS2 output amplitude-wise is lower than the Earthquake.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 04, 2010, 00:39
It's not about the oomph per se. But how much faster the bass is. It's just so seamless in integrating with the 2.4s.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 04, 2010, 01:06
For stereo, no doubt the SS2 will be solid with the 2.4.  I would have gotten the SS2 too if I am still listening to CDs much.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 04, 2010, 12:42
I used to have an Earthquake subwoofer for the car. Those things are really built for SPL ;) and can drive copious amounts of air.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2010, 00:24
You know.. I've watched Chris Botti Live with Orchestra and Special Friends a number of times with my old setup, but there's this one song that always kinda bugged me ;)

It was when Paula Cole and Burt Bacharach performed The Look Of Love. I've always been partial to Diana Krall's version but Cole's speeded up/jazzed up version is just amazingly arranged that it's now my favourite rendition.

So what's wrong? Well, in the first part of the song, when Cole takes a break and the rest of the orchestra  and band starts playing, she stands there and sways... and then slaps her thigh "supposedly" in time with the drum beat... I say "supposedly" because it always seemed like her timing was just off.

That was with the SVS subwoofer..

Today, I played this album with the Thiel SS2. And WOW, it blew me away.. The bass was tighter and punchier... with no trace of boominess or flabbiness or looseness. And suddenly I COULD see Cole slapping in time with the drums. I really *heart* the SS2.

Now I just need to figure out how to afford the S1 like Audio :P so I can enjoy this with the stereo setup.. hehe. Right now gotta use the 4810 as a stereo pre-amp and handle bass management and it isn't too bad IMHO.

Anyway, not to throw a spanner in the works for the 3.7 owners, but the 2.4s augmented with the SS2 really dig deep and low.. I'd say it's almost as good as a 3.7 in that department. Might explain why RabPaul doesn't find his 2.4/SS1 setup doesn't lose out to a 3.7

Sadly, a 3.7 with the SS2 would tilt the balance again in favor of the 3.7. Also, I stlll think the 3.7 has a sweeter mid and high to the 2.4s though. OK OK gotta purge this upgrading poison for a while...



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on April 06, 2010, 07:43
Seems like there is a used 3.7 at audioline.. may be worth considering? :)
http://www.audioline-hifi.com/home/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=41&category_id=34&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=50
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2010, 09:22
I get a bit worried when no prices are quoted ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on April 06, 2010, 10:38
I get a bit worried when no prices are quoted ;)

it's a no brainer. 3.7 is the way to go for you.  :)
I got ready buyer for your 2.4 as I still get queries for them.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2010, 14:45
Still believe the 2.4SE is a keeper ;) Besides doubt there are many nutjobs like me who would pay a premium over the regular 2.4s ;)

ps u shdnt delay too much lah. The cherry red Focus sold liao.. and today *ahem* someone also kapo your cherry red Finite Elemente Signature rack.

Not everyone as patient as Nick ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2010, 20:26
While I was busy tinkering with the SS2 last night, I wasn't able to get the passive crossover to work with my stereo setup :(

So I ended up listening using the Denon 4010/4810/DenonLink4 combo to listen to BR music, CDs and SACDs and made use of the AVR to handle bass management so the SS2 would get a workout in stereo as well as multi channel.

Then, I went back to plain old stereo with my hifi setup and really couldn't get used to the... I guess the word is lack of fullness in the sound. Once you got used to the SS2 in the system, taking it out really took out a noticeable presence. I didn't recall missing the SVS much except in movies. But this was just with music sources.

So off to SD this afternoon and managed to get the S1 Active Crossover on loan to see how well the SS2 could sound with my stereo setup. It was very very good. Much more seamless than with the AVR. It really just disappeared.. but just felt like the 2.4s were bigger than they were. The "imbalance" I heard due to the left speaker being closer to the corner seemed to have diminished without any use of EQ.

Damn.. I shd have learnt from Audio's "lesson" ;) sure cannot give back one..

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on April 06, 2010, 20:53
Knn...yesterday wanted to bet 50 big 50 small that DH will sure end up with the S1...but bookie don't want to eat!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on April 06, 2010, 21:32
While I was busy tinkering with the SS2 last night, I wasn't able to get the passive crossover to work with my stereo setup :(


Hi DH,

Any idea why was the passive crossover is not able to work?
Will be interesting to know the diff in SQ between the passive CO and S1 since the S1 is close to the value of a SS2.

Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2010, 21:54
It might be a Class D specific issue.

Difference? The PX05 doesn't allow any tweaking of the settings. The S1 allows you to tweak a bit to match your personal preferences. I prefer listening to music with the augment mode at -3dB. I think Audio prefers it at +3dB.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on April 06, 2010, 22:29
It might be a Class D specific issue.

Difference? The PX05 doesn't allow any tweaking of the settings. The S1 allows you to tweak a bit to match your personal preferences. I prefer listening to music with the augment mode at -3dB. I think Audio prefers it at +3dB.

Hmmm....probably Sam would know the cause since SD is the dealer for BC and Thiel.
Will be good to know for owners who are not ready to get the S1 as  yet.

Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2010, 23:38
None of this is conclusive.. just a wild guess which may very well be wrong cos Audio's PX05 works fine with his REF1000M and M300s driving his MCS1s. I was using a loaned PX05 that was not designed for my 2.4SEs anyway but had ordered a specific PX05 for my setup (2.4SE/MCS1) earlier. Just wasn't sure if I wanted to take the chance...

In any case, it was a good excuse to try out the S1. I thought it'd be difficult to set the S1 up but it's surprisingly easy once u read thru the manual and check the amp specs (in my case the REF1000M specs are all in the BCD manual).

I had a glimpse of what the SS2 could do with stereo music when I was using the AVR for bass management but the S1 somehow makes the integration even more seamless and the SS2 just disappears.

And the presets make it easy to create "custom" modes so you can have one for music, another for HT action movies and all other combinations in between.


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2010, 09:28
I found another use for the presets.. late night listening. In such cases, it helps to boost the low frequency boost levels.

It also occurred to me why Audio might prefer +3dB on his setup... he is using the 3.7s and it already digs quite low, so the SS2 needs to do more at the lower end to augment the signal to match the 3.7s.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2010, 23:34
@Audio...Had a listen to the 3.7s in the showroom earlier. The bass extension was noticeably deeper than the 2.4SEs in the same room, that I thought the SS2 was pulling all the extra weight but only found out later it had been disconnected ever since SOMEBODY kapo-ed the S1 Integrator hehe... on extended home loan.

Revisiting this topic again....

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/PDF_files/PDF_product_lit/3_7Lit_0308REV2.pdf
Bandwidth (-3 dB). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 Hz - 35 kHz
Frequency response . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .33 Hz - 26 kHz   ±2 dB

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/PDF_files/PDF_owner_info/CS2_4owner.pdf
Bandwidth (–3dB). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 Hz-37 kHz
Frequency response . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .36Hz-25 kHz ±2 dB

On paper it seems quite close..

But on the integrator manual, the settings for the 3.7 and 2.4 differs by a much larger margin.
                  Low Frequency Limit
CS2.4         33Hz
CS3.7         27Hz


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on April 08, 2010, 00:29
Your manual newer, I set 32Hz for my 3.7....will change it to 27Hz.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 08, 2010, 22:14
3.7 sounds so much better driven by the lamm pre & power or other high quality tubes.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 08, 2010, 23:04
3.7 sounds so much better driven by the lamm pre & power or other high quality tubes.

The 3.7s are relatively more neutral than a lot of speakers at that price range. As a result, they allow you to "tune" the sound to what you want. If you like tubes, you will hear them.  ;D And thanks to Thiel's relatively flat impedance, this allows many tube amps to drive them properly. Of course, the more power you give, the louder they get.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2010, 00:27
3.7 sounds so much better driven by the lamm pre & power or other high quality tubes.

I never heard the Lamm power driving the 3.7s before.

But the Lamm Pre and the REF1000Ms do a beautiful combo IMHO.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jmohd on April 09, 2010, 00:46
I get a bit worried when no prices are quoted ;)

If i'm not wrong the price is about 16k and in excellent condition.






Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jmohd on April 09, 2010, 01:03
I never heard the Lamm power driving the 3.7s before.

But the Lamm Pre and the REF1000Ms do a beautiful combo IMHO.


I've recently heard the 3.7 with Lamm set-up. The lows  was solid and tight when playing cello pieces, almost there feeling. I think the CDP was from Bel Canto.







Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 09, 2010, 01:04
I never heard the Lamm power driving the 3.7s before.

But the Lamm Pre and the REF1000Ms do a beautiful combo IMHO.



no way.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 09, 2010, 01:11
no way.

There is no ONE way to enjoy music :)

To expect others to have the exact same tastes is IMHO a bit draconian and unrealistic... not when we expect PAP to also give us options and alternatives and not just bulldoze their opinions to us.

rite? ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 09, 2010, 23:42
tube and solid state is a bad combo. tube and d class is the worst.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 10, 2010, 01:25
You haven't heard francis's ST500 then ;)

Or John Potis review...

Anyway, I heard the Electrocompaniet Nemo today driving the 2.4s and imaging is superb. Then again, it does cost 3x more the REF1000Ms ;)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on April 10, 2010, 09:16
You haven't heard francis's ST500 then ;)



not mine lah.  It's a loan set from Raindrop's
 :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 11, 2010, 09:54
you should compare the 3.7 and 3.6 not the 2.4.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 11, 2010, 11:15
Now you are just twisting your arguments.

You said Class D and tubes don't match when more respected reviewers like the late John Potis (a known tube-phile) and Stronczer who still tunes his new designs to sound tube-like after switching out of tubes are obviously not in agreement.

I am not saying you have to use a Class D design for everything, but to completely deny that alternative is the same shortsightedness that you insinuate that the PAP has.
:)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 11, 2010, 12:06
now using tube pre/power driving the 3.7 and 3.6 will be fair comparison.

solid state/ tube or d class/tube is still a very bad combo.

there is only 1 way to find out, if you have access to high quality tube pre/power and a the 3.6.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 11, 2010, 12:20
And you know this for a fact because?

What you meant to say was that it is your opinion.

:)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 11, 2010, 12:35
wat we do agree is the fact that thiel is pair of fine speakers.

wat we cant agree is wat is the best amplification for thiel.

sure its my opinion entirely.

try this: cd marantz or ear acute or ayre cdplayer.
           : lamm pre
           : lamm power
           :thiel 3.6 or 3.7

this combo will make you go mad. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 11, 2010, 12:50
The LAMM in the showroom did sound good. But I think the LAMM pre with the REF1000Ms wasn't too shabby either.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 12, 2010, 09:40
I'm afraid that you cannot compare the 3.6 against the 3.7 as they are of different designs and having different characteristics.
The 3.6s were designed in the days (waaaay back in 1994) when power amplifiers were brutes and CD players were still an after though. They were sweet, have excellent midrange and partnered with tremendous bass extension so much so that some fans removed the passive radiators and replaced it with a fixed board in order to reduce the bass. They were a b*tch to drive and you MUST have the right amplifier. The 3.6s are of a bygone era as they make EVERY CD sound similar. Yucks. IMHO of course.
The 3.7s on the other hand, make my 2.4s sound blur. They're a totally different design and if you exclude the bass extension, make most of the then higher models, sound constricted and slow. I would dare describe them as having electrostatic clarity with a wider dynamic range. Oh and they cost more than double over the older 3.6s.

As to matching amplifiers, well, I love to pair the newer Thiels (1.6, 2.4, 3.7, MCS1, SCS4) with tubes as their design allows them to; super flat impedance and average to above average sensitivity. However, their distortion levels are so low that you'll end up cranking the volume up and there's where the low power (<20W) of tube amps become a liability.

One of the best that I've heard was:

Bel Canto CD2/DAC3
Lamm L2 Reference Pre
Lamm ML1.1 90W Mono
Thiel MCS1
Thiel MCS1 passive xover
Thiel SS1 Smartsub

Gobsmacked.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on April 12, 2010, 10:03
Speaker designed and made in a diff era doesn't mean it can't be compared to the 3.7s. I say it again, there is only 1way to find out.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 12, 2010, 10:57
Speaker designed and made in a diff era doesn't mean it can't be compared to the 3.7s. I say it again, there is only 1way to find out.

No, you cannot. You have to compare apples with apples not, dried out crab apples. Different philosophy, different driver materials, different crossover components and implementation, different cabinet design and materials used. Can you compare a 1995 Porsche 911 against a 2010 model? Both are still Porsches. Or a 1995 VW Golf GTI vs the current model?
OK, audio related then. Let me see, something affordable, ah. An original 1991 Fourplay "Bali Run" CD vs a the latest Blu Spec version.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 12, 2010, 13:01
There's a BluSpec Bali Run!!???

Actually I thot XRCD2 improvements seemed more noticeable than BluSpec to me.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 12, 2010, 13:16
There's a BluSpec Bali Run!!???

Actually I thot XRCD2 improvements seemed more noticeable than BluSpec to me.



Yes, there is and I have it.  ;D Now, there was.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 12, 2010, 13:26
U bahstid :P

How does it sound?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 12, 2010, 13:29
U bahstid :P

How does it sound?

Very uncompressed, almost LP like. Brilliant stuff.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 12, 2010, 14:42
ps I checked. It's SHM CD ;) not BluSpec CD.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 12, 2010, 17:55
ps I checked. It's SHM CD ;) not BluSpec CD.



I stand corrected, but it is still brilliant.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 12, 2010, 18:07
bring over and listen leh..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on April 12, 2010, 18:23
Can, time? Text me. :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 10, 2010, 21:52
Figured it's time to update this thread ;) I am modifying Audio's one for him... but need him to fill in the blanks ;) also emphasized one of his earlier comments about cables cos he's gone nuts since! hehe

Sorry if I missed any one. I was just modifying the original first post. I know shsoh recently upgraded to the 3.7 (*envy*) so hope he'll find the time to update his gear here..


1. Audio - CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2 + S1 sub integrator

Source for Audio is Denon A1UD via Denon Link4 to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  

Bel Canto Ref1000 x 3 power amp for front L/C/R.  
Bel Canto M300 x 2 power amp for surround  

Interconnects
DenonLink4/HDMI from Universal Player to A1HDA
XLR to L/R REF1000M - Silversmith Audio Silver XLR
XLR to C REF1000M/M300 - custom cables with active shielding
XLR to S1 - ??
XLR from S1 to SS2 - ??

Speaker cables
Front L/C/R - Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon
Surround

Listening sofa is a red IKEA augmented with Earthquake amp/shaker combo.

Supported with TAOC ASR (latest version of the rack)

(http://audio.sg/pic/myTAOC-6.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables.  


3. DoggieHowser CS2.4SE
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room. Bass Buster in corner behind left speaker.

Analog sources:
Table 1: Thorens TD-125LB upgraded by DIYer Straits, Jelco SA-750D tonearm, Denon DL103R MC cart, Custom vdh D-501 Silver Hybrid phono leads

Table 2: Project RPM10.1 evolution with 10cc evolution tonearm, Sumiko Blackbird HOMC cart, bundled phono leads

Phono Amps:
Bel Canto Phono 3 - custom HGA Silver Lace with Rhodium Silver RCA
Allnic H1200 - custom AudioNote interconnect
Ray Samuels Audio F117 - custom HGA Silver Lace with Rhodium Silver RCA

Digital Sources
Marantz SA8003 modded by stealth (caps/op-amps/power) - Silversmith Audio Silver RCA (on loan), usually custom shielded cables I got from Audio

CI Audio PSU for Wadia iTransport
iPod Classic 160GB
Wadia iTransport - QED Signature Reference coax
Benchmark DAC1 Pre - Silversmith Audio Silver XLR

PreAmp:
Bel Canto Pre3 - Silversmith Audio Silver XLR)

Power Amp
Bel Canto REF1000 Mk II

Speaker Cables:
Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon (2x3m)

Tweaks:
Cardas RCA covers, 2 x ESP Reference distributor, 2 x ESP Reference power cords, 2 x ESP MusicordES power cords, 2 x ESP MusicordProES power cords

Finite Element Pagode Signature 4 tier rack (850mm supports) with custom wood finish
4 x Finite Elements Ceraballs each for Thorens, Marantz, Pre3 and Phono3
2 x 3 x Boston Audio TuneBlocks (with tungsten carbide upgrade) for REF1000Ms
2 x Boston Audio TuneBlock S for CS2.4SE

CS2.4SE about 8 feet apart, facing forward with slight toe-in, with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/afa8cda0.jpg)

Other Gear
Thiel MCS1 with custom HGA 32 strand speaker cable
Bel Canto REF500M to power the MCS1
Thiel S1 sub integrator (configured for augment/stereo mode as well as HT)
Thiel SS2 subwoofer


4. Chewed CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits - CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki - MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


7. Charcoal CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets,  

8. Jagdpanzer
Kimber 8TC driving Thiel CS2.4


9. Sleepytune
Thiel CS2.4
Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'

Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire

(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9101020.jpg)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 10, 2010, 22:21
Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......

(Audio)

Hehe, couldn't help but quote Audio's post from April 2009 ie more than 1 year ago!!

Even though I was already a believer in cables then, I still find myself being surprised once in a while. This happened when on stealth's advice, I began experimenting with some other power cords, and WOW.. some of the midbass hump that I had attributed to the room resonance node was gone.

Anyway.. I was using pretty short runs for my RCA connections, based on custom HGA Silver Lace/Audio Note cables from my headfi days and they were already pretty damn amazing and revealing.

Audio recently got me some custom cables with active shielding to try out and have to say that they performed pretty well. The difference was subtle, maybe slightly better detail and I was happy to use them because of the longer lengths.

Earlier this week, both Audio and I borrowed Silversmith Audio interconnects to try out. I kept putting off experimenting with it.. work, quality time with the missus, tiredness were my excuses but I think at the back of my mind, my biggest worry was: WHAT IF THEY WERE BETTER?

I had planned to return the cables tomorrow and curiousity got the better of me.. I had to at least see if my fears were founded.

When I swapped Audio's cables out with the Silversmith, at first I was thinking.. LUCKY ME. The old cables sounded clearer...

But as I continued listening through my usual "shootout" playlist of CDs, I wasn't so sure. What I thought to be "clarity" seemed just to be "brightness". The Silversmith RCA didn't lose any of the details, but it had the trademark sound that I remembered when I first swapped out my XLRs for Silversmith's XLR ones. Smooth.. sweet... and detailed. In fact, without the added brightness, I actually heard new nuances coming through.

I swapped back to Audio's cables but was surprised that despite recency/memory effects, I couldn't really make out the nuances I heard earlier. I really tried to listen intently but they just seemed a bit muddier. So I swapped back to the Silversmith.. to make sure I wasn't kidding myself. Sorry to ABX fans but I was all alone at this stage. I told myself to switch back to the older cables but I just couldn't. There's just some euphoria I think most audiophiles experience when something like this.. a temporary nirvana? happens.

I have listened to Fourplay's Fourplay like a gazillion times since I got it, and I thought I had heard it all before.. especially since I am used to listening to these songs on my headfi gear. I used to think my headfi set was more detailed than my hifi. And it was. The iMod/Valhalla Sonicaps/LISA III XP/LLP driving my woodie/Audionote recabled Sennheiser HD650s combination was pretty amazing. No room modes to worry about.

But today. that's no longer the case.

Crap. How am I gonna return the cables tomorrow?

I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s...

Uuurggh...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on June 11, 2010, 00:59
You can still get the cables and continue saving for the 3.7s... ::)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 11, 2010, 08:27
You can still get the cables and continue saving for the 3.7s... ::)
Not when prices of Thiels are said to be going up.........by a big margin.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 11, 2010, 08:45


 I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s... I need to save for 3.7s...

Uuurggh...



heh heh, the 3.7 are poisonous right? i'm thinking of that too....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 11, 2010, 08:52
you all wanna buy 3.7 better do so soon... time is against you. sorry i can't recall when SD mentioned it will go up. esle it will be harder to reach. :-X
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 11, 2010, 09:46
heh heh, the 3.7 are poisonous right? i'm thinking of that too....

You too huh?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on June 11, 2010, 09:56
Wowz...Maybe you all should do a group buy... :o :D ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: wylee on June 11, 2010, 10:18
Need some advise from all the experts here. Got myself CS 2.4 which is currently powered by Quad 909 amp. Then got the itch and bought a MCS 1 from SD. Intended for the Thiels to be the left, centre and right speakers of a 11.1 home theater setup with Onkyo 1007. Usage for music vs movies ratio is 40:60

I am not sure whether the Onkyo has sufficient power to drive the MCS 1. I am pondering the following:

- a secondhand monoblock to drive the MCS 1 - like the NHT A100; or
- a Rotel 1075 or 1098 to drive all the Thiels; or
- a Emotiva XPA-5

Suggestions?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 11, 2010, 10:52

Need some advise from all the experts here. Got myself CS 2.4 which is currently powered by Quad 909 amp. Then got the itch and bought a MCS 1 from SD. Intended for the Thiels to be the left, centre and right speakers of a 11.1 home theater setup with Onkyo 1007. Usage for music vs movies ratio is 40:60

Welcome to the club :) I was running the 2.4SEs off my father-in-law's Quad 606 for a while..

I am not sure whether the Onkyo has sufficient power to drive the MCS 1. I am pondering the following:

The Onkyo has the THX certification that requires it to support 4ohm loads.

As an initial setup, I think Onkyo can drive the MCS1. By offloading the front L/R channels to the Quads, I think you are freeing up the Onkyo to drive the center and surround/effects channels with more reserves. You can always experiment to see if this is good enough first.

That said, I recall the Onkyo doesn't do simultaneous 11.1? Only 9.x channels at the same time.

- a secondhand monoblock to drive the MCS 1 - like the NHT A100; or
- a Rotel 1075 or 1098 to drive all the Thiels; or
- a Emotiva XPA-5


The Thiels love clean and good reserves of power. Most of us have good results with ICEpowered amps. Look at the Wyred4Sound or Bel Canto gear.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on June 11, 2010, 23:40
Okay below are my current gears:

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy2/shsoh/R0012427-1.jpg)

Analogue:
- Nottingham Spacedeck
- Schroeder No.2 FW tonearm
- Lyra Helikon SL cartridge
- EAR 324 phono
- Clearaudio Synchro Motor Controller

Digital:
- Wadia 23 CDP

Amps:
- First Sound Presence Deluxe MkII preamp
- Ayre V1x poweramp
- REL Stampede sub

Accessories:
- Isotek Titan Power Conditioner
- Oyaide MTB-6 R1 Distributor
- Shunyata Taipan Helix Powersnakes (15A/20A)
- Synergistic Research Reference (for CDP)
- Synergistic Research Tesla REL spec subwoofer cable
- Kimber Select KS1030 & KS3035 cables
- Symposium Rollerblocks, Ultra, Super Plus, etc
- Solidsteel Racks
- Taoc & Isoduo Jade footers
- Acoustic System Resonators, Phase Corrector & Diffuser

Next Change:
- Walker Valid Points for Clearaudio Synchro
- Upgrade First Sound preamp to MKIII

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 12, 2010, 10:21
Nice setup shsoh.


1. Audio

CS3.7 + MCS1 (surrounds) + MCS1 (centre) + SS2 + S1 sub integrator

Source for Audio is Denon A1UD via Denon Link4 to Denon AVP-A1HDA.  

Bel Canto Ref1000 x 3 power amp for front L/C/R.  
Bel Canto M300 x 2 power amp for surround  

Interconnects
DenonLink4/HDMI from Universal Player to A1HDA
XLR to L/R REF1000M - Silversmith Audio Silver XLR
XLR to C REF1000M/M300 - custom cables with active shielding
XLR to S1 - ??
XLR from S1 to SS2 - ??

Speaker cables
Front L/C/R - Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon
Surround

Listening sofa is a red IKEA augmented with Earthquake amp/shaker combo.

Supported with TAOC ASR (latest version of the rack)

(http://audio.sg/pic/myTAOC-6.jpg)

Kicking myself for waited this long to make the cable change......


2. jonlee
CS2.4 + MCS1 (centre)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/jonleelk/CIMG0950.jpg)
For audio, Plinius CD-101 with Plinius 9200 integrated amp, both with Acrolink 4030 power cords.  Mogami 2803 interconnects and mogami 2804 speaker cables.  


3. DoggieHowser
CS2.4SE + MCS1 + SS2 + S1 Sub Integrator
Placement: Living room which is unpartitioned fom the dining room. Bass Buster in corner behind left speaker.

Analog sources:
Table 1: Thorens TD-125LB upgraded by DIYer Straits, Jelco SA-750D tonearm, Denon DL103R MC cart, Custom vdh D-501 Silver Hybrid phono leads

Table 2: Project RPM10.1 evolution with 10cc evolution tonearm, Project Speedbox SE II, Sumiko Blackbird HOMC cart, bundled phono leads

Phono Amps:
Bel Canto Phono 3 - custom HGA Silver Lace with Rhodium Silver RCA
Allnic H1200 - custom AudioNote interconnect
Ray Samuels Audio F117 - custom HGA Silver Lace with Rhodium Silver RCA

Digital Sources
Marantz SA8003 modded by stealth (caps/op-amps/power) - Silversmith Audio Silver RCA (on loan), usually custom shielded cables I got from Audio

CI Audio PSU for Wadia iTransport
iPod Classic 160GB
Wadia iTransport - QED Signature Reference coax
Benchmark DAC1 Pre - Silversmith Audio Silver XLR

PreAmp:
Bel Canto Pre3 - Silversmith Audio Silver XLR)

Power Amp
Bel Canto REF1000 Mk II

Speaker Cables:
Silversmith Audio Silver ribbon (2x3m)

Tweaks:
Cardas RCA covers, 2 x ESP Reference distributor, 2 x ESP Reference power cords, 2 x ESP MusicordES power cords, 2 x ESP MusicordProES power cords

Finite Element Pagode Signature 4 tier rack (850mm supports) with custom wood finish
4 x Finite Elements Ceraballs each for Thorens, Marantz, Pre3 and Phono3
2 x 3 x Boston Audio TuneBlocks (with tungsten carbide upgrade) for REF1000Ms
2 x Boston Audio TuneBlock S for CS2.4SE

CS2.4SE about 8 feet apart, facing forward with slight toe-in, with about 1.25 foot away from the back wall.
(http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae132/doggiehowser/afa8cda0.jpg)

Other Gear
Thiel MCS1 with custom HGA 32 strand speaker cable
Bel Canto REF500M to power the MCS1
Thiel S1 sub integrator (configured for augment/stereo mode as well as HT)
Thiel SS2 subwoofer


4. Chewed
CS1.6 + SCS4 (centre)
listening area is abt 3.5m by 3.5 m

CS1.6 slightly 8 ft apart, no toe-ing in.1 ft from backwall.  SCS4 placed in betw

For audio, CDP is Bel Canto CD-2, powered by Bel Canto S300. IC is Siltech SQ-28, speaker cable is Synergistic Research Vortex.
For Home Theatre, powered by Onkyo 805, ur usual BR & HD-DVD players involved, speaker cable is Chord Carnival.

I manually switch speaker cable to the CS1.6 when i'm listening to music or  home theatre.


5. DIYer Straits
CS2.4
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3490701425_db2565b92d.jpg?v=0)

6 ft with 2 ft from either side walls. Also 30 inches from the back wall. Listening position is 7 ft away. This is not yet finalised as have yet to get a proper listening chair.  ;D I will probably pull them another 6 to 12 inches apart and push them back a bit. No curtains as yet as well. Still work in progress. Everything is sitting on granite slabs excess from house renovation.
Currently am listening with
Sony CDPX3000 (modded)
Customised Williamson 6B4G push-pull 7 Watter


6. Hoseki
MCS1 (L, R, C) + CS1.2 + SS2
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3498911837_bbf1fd888f.jpg?v=0)


7. Charcoal
CS2.3 + SCS2
I still own the old CS2.3 and SCS2, but they seldom sing as firstly no time and especially since I shifted the whole audio system from the hall to a small study room.

Int Amp : Accuphase E530
Amp Power Cord : DIY VDH Mainsstream Hybrid (Furutech IEC / Plug)
CD Player : OPPO 983
CDP Power Cord : DIY XLO Reference (Furutec plug / IEC)
Interconnect Cable : Transparent Audio Ultra RCA
Speaker Cable : Aural Symphonics AS-One (copper)
Listening Area (Hall) : 32 feet x 16 feet
Speakers Positioning : 5 Feet away fm rear wall, 4 feet fm side wall & 8 feet apart each other, no toe in.
Tweaks : Solid Steel H5.4, DH Cones, Linn Skeets,  

8. Jagdpanzer
Kimber 8TC driving Thiel CS2.4


9. Sleepytune
Thiel CS2.4
Source:1)Shanling cda10t. 2)Ipod/Wadia/Monarchy dip/PS audio DL lll cullent curcuit level 4.

Powercord jps ac dgtl to cdp.No brand shielding pc for ipod/wadia etc...Dgtl interlink stereovox xv2,analog rca Xindax fa gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Preamp:Bel canto pre3 .Pc xindax fp gold.xlr 'the music cable'.

Power; Bel canto ref500. pc neotech,speaker cable 'the music cable'

Powerline: xindak XF 1000.replace x and y cap to rifa, bypass power outlet with straight wire

(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/rudinn/P9101020.jpg)


10. shsoh
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy2/shsoh/R0012427-1.jpg)

Analogue:
- Nottingham Spacedeck
- Schroeder No.2 FW tonearm
- Lyra Helikon SL cartridge
- EAR 324 phono
- Clearaudio Synchro Motor Controller

Digital:
- Wadia 23 CDP

Amps:
- First Sound Presence Deluxe MkII preamp
- Ayre V1x poweramp
- REL Stampede sub

Accessories:
- Isotek Titan Power Conditioner
- Oyaide MTB-6 R1 Distributor
- Shunyata Taipan Helix Powersnakes (15A/20A)
- Synergistic Research Reference (for CDP)
- Synergistic Research Tesla REL spec subwoofer cable
- Kimber Select KS1030 & KS3035 cables
- Symposium Rollerblocks, Ultra, Super Plus, etc
- Solidsteel Racks
- Taoc & Isoduo Jade footers
- Acoustic System Resonators, Phase Corrector & Diffuser

Next Change:
- Walker Valid Points for Clearaudio Synchro
- Upgrade First Sound preamp to MKIII

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 12, 2010, 10:43
Need some advise from all the experts here. Got myself CS 2.4 which is currently powered by Quad 909 amp. Then got the itch and bought a MCS 1 from SD. Intended for the Thiels to be the left, centre and right speakers of a 11.1 home theater setup with Onkyo 1007. Usage for music vs movies ratio is 40:60

I am not sure whether the Onkyo has sufficient power to drive the MCS 1. I am pondering the following:

- a secondhand monoblock to drive the MCS 1 - like the NHT A100; or
- a Rotel 1075 or 1098 to drive all the Thiels; or
- a Emotiva XPA-5

Suggestions?

Thiels being what they are, need pretty good electronics or they will tell on you. Given a choice, I'd go for a dedicated preamp in between the Onkyo and your Quad. You have to admit, unless your AV amp is one of those megabuck monsters, you'll realize that the preamp component of most AV receivers are quite s****y. You won't be getting the full potential of the Thiels. How to tell? Do an interconnect cable change between your CD player and your AV receiver. If the sound change is very subtle or none at all, time for a preamp.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 12, 2010, 11:45
DIYer

Don't scare off the new guys lah :)

I haven't heard the 1007 before but I know the 5507 pre/pro owners seem quite happy with their Onkyos. Ditto with the Integra close cousins.

I think for movies, multi channel music etc, not having another Pre in the chain might be better.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 12, 2010, 16:43
DIYer

Don't scare off the new guys lah :)

I haven't heard the 1007 before but I know the 5507 pre/pro owners seem quite happy with their Onkyos. Ditto with the Integra close cousins.

I think for movies, multi channel music etc, not having another Pre in the chain might be better.

Not scaring him off lah. I mean, you have a pair of Thiels and an MCS1, shouldn't you optimise for the best? His spread is 40:60 music to movies. At least do the 2.4s some justice.  As we all know, Thiels don't suffer fools gladly. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 15, 2010, 16:31
Currently using Thiel CS 1.6, have to intention to upgrade to CS2.4, but considering my small size room, will like to get advice from the pros here.

My room size is 10" x 15" Speakers will be place only 1ft away from the back wall and 7ft apart. Sitting distance is about 2m away from the speakers.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 15, 2010, 18:55
If you room size is 10x15, I think you should be able to sit abt 8 feet away. I find that in my case, that seems optimal.

That said, I have been in DIYer Straits listening/DIY room ;) and it's nowhere near what Thiel recommends and yet, there's a very well set up system... I posted the owners' setups just a few posts up.. go check it out (complete with pics). I think you need to be a bit more careful with how you set it up but it looks like it can be done.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 15, 2010, 19:16
Thanks bro, for always been helpful to me..

Will the bass be over-whelming for such a small room?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 15, 2010, 19:31
There are many variables to consider..

My room seemed to have this huge boom that I thought was uncurable without extensive use of room treatment. But with help from friends, I found that weird tweaks like footer and supports (not just for speakers!!! but for components), power cords, interconnects all helped. So now I am still left with a 50Hz boom (that one is due to the room and not likely to change any time soon) but a lot of the boominess I experienced has been tamed significantly.

Thing is my room is larger than DIYer's. And his doesn't have this boom. He showed me before that if I sat further back in his room, there would be a slight boom but where he placed the seating position, there was hardly any noticeable. I found something similar in my room as well but because of WAF, am unable to shift the sofa that much further up.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 15, 2010, 23:34
Thanks bro, for always been helpful to me..

Will the bass be over-whelming for such a small room?

Actually harder to make Bass sound big in a small room due to cancellation.  I even have a Thiel SS2 in my small HDB bedroom.

Used to tell myself back in the old days of CRT TVs, buy the TV that match your room. Back then we got the 29" and the 34". Thought 29" is too big for my bedroom, but bought it anyway. When the set got delivered, I regret already, SO BIG!   But after 10 min of viewing, I regret for a second time, should have got the 34"!

Now you know why the 3.7 is in my tiny HDB room. No regrets!

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 16, 2010, 00:27
Thanks Audio! Lucky I did made a good choice for watching movies, 76" projection for sitting 8ft away. At 1st I was saying wow, too big too big.. But after watching Avatar for an hour, I knew I made the right choice.. hahaha..

DH, actually when I 1st use the CS1.6 the bass was such a boom, was using Sitech then. After I switch to AET and Acrolink, plus some insolater and footer, really do helps alot.. Anyway how do you measure the bass, how you know your room left with 50hz boom?

Have anyone actually compared a 1.6 vs the 2.4?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 16, 2010, 00:30
Oh yeah? Bro Francis disagrees! His comment you dun need a floorstander in a small room. But I really like to hear a 3.7 at Francis huge living room. Should be very grand. Only after Audio hear that. you will stop your tweaks. And start looking for a bigger hse. Oh he is using satelite spks for small room wor.  :-X
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on June 16, 2010, 00:44
Thanks Audio! Lucky I did made a good choice for watching movies, 76" projection for sitting 8ft away. At 1st I was saying wow, too big too big.. But after watching Avatar for an hour, I knew I made the right choice.. hahaha..

DH, actually when I 1st use the CS1.6 the bass was such a boom, was using Sitech then. After I switch to AET and Acrolink, plus some insolater and footer, really do helps alot.. Anyway how do you measure the bass, how you know your room left with 50hz boom?

Have anyone actually compared a 1.6 vs the 2.4?

Hi Bro,

You might want to try Dynaudio C1, I used to have CS2.4. My room size is 9.5ft x 12.5ft. Also I have installed a 80" screen in my room also. My next target is 100" screen

I am using Sitech cable from source to speaker. May I know which Sitech cable you are using?

This is what I used to have
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/clitang/P1000978.jpg)



Thank you
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 16, 2010, 01:06
Was using the SQ28 interconnect and tried with varies speaker cables like Siltech New York, Clear day Shotgun, Viablue, and now stick to AET coz bass was much controlled and very good details and dun sound too fat, very transparent.

I've heard the C1 before, very nice but I still prefer using Thiel coz running HT on the same speakers. If I have space for another set of speakers for audio, it will definetely be Von Schweikert. Affordable and really musical, so far the best among I heard for less thn 10k.

Thiel is the best I have heard for my HT and audio combo, really dynamic.

PS: My best is based on personal taste and personal preference, no offense to anyone here..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 16, 2010, 01:08
Have anyone actually compared a 1.6 vs the 2.4?

Though the 1.6 truly has the "Thiel sound", the 2.4 just give more refinement, making the sound more solid, tighter bass, cleaner and vocal more prominent.  Though costing almost twice the price of 1.6, it is a worthwhile upgrade.

(Audio)

 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clitang on June 16, 2010, 01:34
Was using the SQ28 interconnect and tried with varies speaker cables like Siltech New York, Clear day Shotgun, Viablue, and now stick to AET coz bass was much controlled and very good details and dun sound too fat, very transparent.

I've heard the C1 before, very nice but I still prefer using Thiel coz running HT on the same speakers. If I have space for another set of speakers for audio, it will definetely be Von Schweikert. Affordable and really musical, so far the best among I heard for less thn 10k.

Thiel is the best I have heard for my HT and audio combo, really dynamic.

PS: My best is based on personal taste and personal preference, no offense to anyone here..

Yes, CS2.4 is good for HT & audio and value for money also.

Which model of Von Schweikert you mentioned is less then 10k that you wish to get. To my understanding, VR4 SR Mk3 cost about US$10K, VR5 Anniversary cost about US$28K.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 16, 2010, 01:38
how do you measure the bass, how you know your room left with 50hz boom?

Trusty Radio Shack and some test tones. I used the test tones (specific frequencies) that a member here JAG provided for calibrating subs but because the Thiels actually generate bass down to 20Hz, those test tones are also very handy.

Have anyone actually compared a 1.6 vs the 2.4?

Can go listen to the ones in the showroom.

From my recollection, the 2.4 improves on a few things. The coaxial driver provides a better merging of the mids and highs. And the bass is extended and more detailed tho not necessarily louder.

The 3.7 adds a smoother midrange and IMHO is less stark and more refined. Bass extension also seems better than what the specs seem to claim.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 16, 2010, 01:57
Trusty Radio Shack and some test tones. I used the test tones (specific frequencies) that a member here JAG provided for calibrating subs but because the Thiels actually generate bass down to 20Hz, those test tones are also very handy.

Need to learn more from you on this..

Which model of Von Schweikert you mentioned is less then 10k that you wish to get. To my understanding, VR4 SR Mk3 cost about US$10K, VR5 Anniversary cost about US$28K.

Unifield 2. And VR 33 will be reaching our shore soon, will be price slightly over 10k. You can't find these model over Von Schweikert website, Audio Circle may be the forum to read more on these musical boxes.. hehe..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: nbs on June 16, 2010, 10:51
Noticed number of bros are using BC amps and as I haven't heard this amp, don't mind have a listening session at one of bro place one day to see how good they are.   ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on June 16, 2010, 13:01
Currently using Thiel CS 1.6, have to intention to upgrade to CS2.4, but considering my small size room, will like to get advice from the pros here.

My room size is 10" x 15" Speakers will be place only 1ft away from the back wall and 7ft apart. Sitting distance is about 2m away from the speakers.

Yes, I think the 2.4 will boom in your room just as it did in mine. However, when I switched the positioning to be along the long side of the room, the boom almost disappeared... much to my surprise! So, I can conculde that the 2.4 likes to placed far away from the side walls. If you read the manual, you get what I mean - something like 2ft from rear, 3ft from side I think.... you get the idea.

Oh yes, once I move to the 3.7, the boom is not really a concern anymore.

** If you want the 2.4, you'd better get them now. Was told that price will go up by USD1k soon.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 16, 2010, 19:13
The prob is I will be placing the left speaker juz beside a side wall, but the right side will be away from the wall thou.. I think so much good comments here on the 2.4, I will get it 1st and decide what to do to the bass boom later.. hehe..

Yeah I heard from SD next month onward there will be a 10% increase for Thiel.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 16, 2010, 19:39
My arrangement is also with one speaker closer to a corner and the other with no corner reinforcement. The imbalance wasn't so obvious. Until I started cleaning up the power :)

With the help of some tweaks from friends, it's actually ok to me.

If you are free, maybe can arrange to drop by one Friday when the missus has plans.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 16, 2010, 21:29
DH's living room is not so small lah!  My 2.4 in a 3X4m hdb room should be a better representation.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 17, 2010, 01:13
This is definetely great that bros here welcome me to pay a visit and learn more in room arrangement and those little tweaks. ;D

DH, u free this Friday nite? And next to jonlee's..  ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 17, 2010, 09:35
Got a company thing this Friday :(

I'd rather be home listening... have met up with a couple of guys here on Friday evenings then head over somewhere..

I stay in Bukit Batok area :) not sure where jon lives
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: watchdog on June 17, 2010, 12:56
The 2.4 goes quite a bit lower than the 1.6. It is also has a more transparent and coherent sound, probably due to its fantastic co-incident tweeter / midrange driver.

The 1.6 placed one foot from the backwall is marginally acceptable for me (although far from optimal). The 2.4 needs more space to breathe. I would rather have them closer together and further from the back wall compared to the placement of your 1.6. This of course will result in the distance between the speaker and yourself being closer, and you will lose the phase coherency / time alignment of the design.

I don't know whether you mentioned the rest of your equipment, but please make sure that they are up to it. The 2.4 is quite transparent of source / amplification.

My 1.6 was formerly set up in a 3 x 4 m room, 2.5 feet from backwall, 3 feet from side wall with nice results. My older 1.2 refused to work at anything less than 2 feet from backwall.

Currently using Thiel CS 1.6, have to intention to upgrade to CS2.4, but considering my small size room, will like to get advice from the pros here.

My room size is 10" x 15" Speakers will be place only 1ft away from the back wall and 7ft apart. Sitting distance is about 2m away from the speakers.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 17, 2010, 16:12

Oh yes, once I move to the 3.7, the boom is not really a concern anymore.

Can't tell you how happy seeing this statement from you and Audio makes me :P

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 17, 2010, 16:54
I stay CCK, very near to DH.  Can do both house together.  :)

However, I'm not in sg at the moment, will only be back tomorrow evening.

Shsoh, how come the 3.7 is less "boomy" than the 2.4?  Because it controls its bass tighter and better?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 17, 2010, 18:00
Are you guys usually free on weekends noon? Like this coming Sat noon? ;)

I know this is in the wrong thread but since I've ask bout Thiel, will like to add 2 speakers to my HT system as Front-Height since I have 2 more channel from the rotel pwr amp doing nothing. Will it be good to add more or keep it at present 5.1?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 18, 2010, 07:49
On a side note, what is the price of the 3.7 standard finish?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on June 18, 2010, 08:17
Yes with the 3.7. Bass goes deeper and much tighter than 2.4.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 18, 2010, 09:12
Are you guys usually free on weekends noon? Like this coming Sat noon? ;)

I know this is in the wrong thread but since I've ask bout Thiel, will like to add 2 speakers to my HT system as Front-Height since I have 2 more channel from the rotel pwr amp doing nothing. Will it be good to add more or keep it at present 5.1?

Saturdays are usu for chores/inlaws so harder to arrange. I'll try to see if next Friday works.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 18, 2010, 09:15
On a side note, what is the price of the 3.7 standard finish?

Not sure what it's like after price hike, but according to Crutchfield, the list/standard US price is US$12,900 per pair for standard finishes. Factor in a 1.5x for local list. Then talk to SD :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 18, 2010, 15:35
Hi to all Thiel users,
I just ordered a Thiel CS2.4 from Sammy after auditioning it with the Bel Cantos.  The sound is simply irresitable.  However, may I seek your expert advice as to how the Thiels will sound with Airtight ATC 2?  I intend to get the Bel Canto REF500M.  Hope that you all can give me some advice.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 18, 2010, 18:07
Hi to all Thiel users,
I just ordered a Thiel CS2.4 from Sammy after auditioning it with the Bel Cantos.  The sound is simply irresitable.  However, may I seek your expert advice as to how the Thiels will sound with Airtight ATC 2?  I intend to get the Bel Canto REF500M.  Hope that you all can give me some advice.  Thanks.

welcome to the club cliq :)

I have no experience with the preamp you are considering but I think a good tube preamp like the LAMM at SD makes a beautiful partner to the more neutral Thiels and Bel Canto.

I think you'll be happy with the REF500M. It actually uses a newer ICE module and BCD's chief engineer was apparently quoted as saying the 500M is the gem of the range (don't tell Audio hehe).

I am using it for center channel duties and it sounds a bit warmer than the 1000Ms. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 18, 2010, 20:13
Thanks Doggie.  I am really anxious to collect the speakers. But Sam told me it will take about 5 weeks.  Long wait....  In the meantime, I am just hoping that the Thiels will match my preamp.  My original intention was to go to SD to get the Bel Canto power amp.  Ended up buying the Thiel.  Infectious man....-(
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 18, 2010, 22:00
Hi to all Thiel users,
I just ordered a Thiel CS2.4 from Sammy after auditioning it with the Bel Cantos.  The sound is simply irresitable.  However, may I seek your expert advice as to how the Thiels will sound with Airtight ATC 2?  I intend to get the Bel Canto REF500M.  Hope that you all can give me some advice.  Thanks.

Airtight's tube pre is pretty good in terms of tube lushness if I remember correctly. You will hear more of it than the REF500s, the latter will easily drive the 2.4s. Wonderful balance. I was there this afternoon. Just to update, I'm about to complete a pair of Aikido 300B SE monoblocks to drive my CS2.4s. Only 8w (or maybe 10W  ;D ).
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: shsoh on June 18, 2010, 23:07
Hi to all Thiel users,
I just ordered a Thiel CS2.4 from Sammy after auditioning it with the Bel Cantos.  The sound is simply irresitable.  However, may I seek your expert advice as to how the Thiels will sound with Airtight ATC 2?  I intend to get the Bel Canto REF500M.  Hope that you all can give me some advice.  Thanks.

Congrats on the purchase! 2.4 loves nice quality power. I pair with the Pass X150.5 and thought it sounded what most call "dynamic" or "prat" etc. Something was just not right. Then after I made the switch to Ayre V1x, music sounded so much controlled and not so in a hurry anymore. Of course, bass was tighter and deeper as well.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 18, 2010, 23:57
By tonight, if I am not wrong, there are 2 brand new unannounced 3.7 XP owners. :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 19, 2010, 00:10
yeah. standby for more reviews...... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 19, 2010, 15:35
Hi DIYer, pl keep us updated on how the 8watter will sound with the CS2.4.  I am very curious. If anyone of you intend to sell your Bel canto Ref 500, pls let me know :-)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jeromelang on June 19, 2010, 17:02
time and phase coherent speakers tend to image (project soundstaging) very differently from other type of speakers.

here's a pictorial depiction to illustrate:

this is the point-source example (timing is correct between all drivers, so that all sounds appear to come from a single spot.

provided the microphone placement is supporting the pianist perspective, or pretending this is a midi synthesized playback, the soundstage of a piano is steady on the horizontal plane:

(http://www.underway.us/audioasylum/array/1_pointsource.jpg)

this is the 2-way, non time & phase coherent speaker design example. The soundstage of a piano is separated on the horizontal plane, with higher notes appearing higher on the soundstage, and lower notes appearing lower on the soundstage.

(http://www.underway.us/audioasylum/array/2_2way.jpg)

in this above two-way example, the upper-range notes appear higher in the air because in most all two-ways the sounds from the tweeter are not arriving at the same time as the sounds from the woofer-- the tweeter is not time-coherent with the woofer. this timing difference is mostly caused by the crossover circuit.



I am sure all you guys know this, and love thiel speakers for what they can do.

these information originally appearred on AAhttp://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/29/295959.html (http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/29/295959.html).







Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 19, 2010, 20:58
Hi to all Thiel users,
I just ordered a Thiel CS2.4 from Sammy after auditioning it with the Bel Cantos.  The sound is simply irresitable.  However, may I seek your expert advice as to how the Thiels will sound with Airtight ATC 2?  I intend to get the Bel Canto REF500M.  Hope that you all can give me some advice.  Thanks.

clicquot,

so you're the one who's there at SD in the evening.

congrats on your purchase. you'll love it
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 20, 2010, 09:17
Chewed, you were there too?  Huh..  what are you thinking of getting?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 20, 2010, 09:59
Chewed, you were there too?  Huh..  what are you thinking of getting?

Clicquot,

er, trying not to get poisoned. but getting amps & DAC.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 20, 2010, 10:08
What!!?? No 3.7?!! :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 20, 2010, 10:26
What!!?? No 3.7?!! :)

need to work out some logistical issues 1st, but our time frame should be the same ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 20, 2010, 12:07
So you must be one of the guys Audio mentioned. Is jon the second? ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 12:33
I didn't know that Xtremeplace is a place for wayang...... :)

More new 3.7 unannounced XP owners?

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 20, 2010, 13:32
u mean me? :) I thot it was someone you met at SD on Friday...

ps clic...  check this out.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=78389.msg568741#new

I am not sure if he's referring to a pair, but if it is mono, it's overpriced. If it is for a pair, maybe can consider.. see if got room to negotiate. Maybe Audio go chope first for his surround MCS1s hehe



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 13:40
u mean me? :) I thot I was oredi so obvious didn't need any more elaboration.. :P

Yah, you  :) ....Prominent "Savng up for 3.7", "Is Jon the second?", new 3.7 owner.....

Sorry, I only know Chewed and You.....and you two are the ones I know of.....Jon would probably be the third....all beating the price increase deadline.....

(Audio)



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 20, 2010, 14:05
So you must be one of the guys Audio mentioned. Is jon the second? ;)

nope...will not be me in 2010.   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 15:03
I've never knew that there is such a thing as 3.7 outriggers.  Maybe it's because Sammy never put them on for his showroom set.  On Friday morning, someone ask me about this, it was the first time I heard of it.  Then just barely an hour later, I saw an WTS in the Audio section, a set of 3.7 outriggers.  As I am still doing up my a new rack, this couldn't come at a better time.

Before picture:-
(http://audio.sg/pic/outrigger1.jpg)

Beautiful...right?  Goodman is a very careful owner.
(http://audio.sg/pic/outrigger2.jpg)

The outriggers fitted.
(http://audio.sg/pic/outrigger3.jpg)

After picture.
(http://audio.sg/pic/outrigger4.jpg)


I Know, I know, you want to know how it sounds.....

Soundstage is now more spread out and as a result, the sound becomes less dense. There is an obvious improvement in clarity and details as well.  It's hard to believe this could be achieved by just extending the support points outwards by about 1 inch outside the footprint of the speakers.

Every familiar CD I play on my system sounds better.  Highly recommended, this accessory is a must for any 3.7 owners.  Wonder why it took me so long to find out...   :)

Special thanks to this nice gentleman, Goodman, for selling the kit to me and patiently waiting for me to collect though I was late for the appointment.

(Audio)

PS:I know I am poisoning the 3.7 owners but I would feel very selfish if I just kept this good tweak to myself....dammn if you do, dammn if you don't.... :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on June 20, 2010, 15:10
I've never knew that there is such a thing as 3.7 outriggers.  Maybe it's because Sammy never put them on for his showroom set.  On Friday morning, someone ask me about this, it was the first time I heard of it.  Then just barely an hour later, I saw an WTS in the Audio section, a set of 3.7 outriggers.  As I am still doing up my a new rack, this couldn't come at a better time.

Before picture:-
(http://audio.sg/pic/outrigger1.jpg)

Beautiful...right?........Horrible looking ah!

After picture.
(http://audio.sg/pic/outrigger4.jpg)

Much, much better....... ;D  Surprise too you wud let this tweak slipped by for so long...... ;D

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 20, 2010, 15:39
The 2.4SEs came standard with custom outriggers. Damn your poisons.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 15:43
The 2.4SEs came standard with custom outriggers. Damn your poisons.

.......obviously, with a price tag to match........

(Audio)

PS: Like I said, I rather be dammn by you now then to let you find out that I am keeping this to myself...   :)

What are friends for?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 20, 2010, 16:31
I still remember you got the 3.7 without anything below but a piece of marble slab, already enjoy so much. Haha really damn your poisons!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on June 20, 2010, 18:17
Aiya, it is reallly diffcult to keep up with the lees and chans here.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 20, 2010, 20:03
Hi Doggie, tks for looking out Bel Canto's for me.  Seriously I think it is a bit overpriced.  New for 1000MK2 is $8k as quoted by Sammy.  $5.9k is beyond my budget, esp. after buying the Thiel.  Moreover, also spent quite a lot on other gears.  Of course if I have the budget now, I will go for 1000mk2. May be I should just KIV until I get the $$$.  Do you think I should save up for 1000Mk2 or just get the 500?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 20:14
Hi Doggie, tks for looking out Bel Canto's for me.  Seriously I think it is a bit overpriced.  New for 1000MK2 is $8k as quoted by Sammy.  $5.9k is beyond my budget, esp. after buying the Thiel.  Moreover, also spent quite a lot on other gears.  Of course if I have the budget now, I will go for 1000mk2. May be I should just KIV until I get the $$$.  Do you think I should save up for 1000Mk2 or just get the 500?

What's the price of 2 pieces of 500M vs $5.9K for 2 pre-owned 1000MK2?

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on June 20, 2010, 20:18
Hi Doggie, tks for looking out Bel Canto's for me.  Seriously I think it is a bit overpriced.  New for 1000MK2 is $8k as quoted by Sammy.  $5.9k is beyond my budget, esp. after buying the Thiel.  Moreover, also spent quite a lot on other gears.  Of course if I have the budget now, I will go for 1000mk2. May be I should just KIV until I get the $$$.  Do you think I should save up for 1000Mk2 or just get the 500?

Hi Cli,

Another alternative would be to get a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 at around the same price of a pair of new Ref 500m and upgrade the Ref 1000 to MK2 anytime you have the budget.

Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on June 20, 2010, 20:23
Hi Doggie, tks for looking out Bel Canto's for me.  Seriously I think it is a bit overpriced.  New for 1000MK2 is $8k as quoted by Sammy.  $5.9k is beyond my budget, esp. after buying the Thiel.  Moreover, also spent quite a lot on other gears.  Of course if I have the budget now, I will go for 1000mk2. May be I should just KIV until I get the $$$.  Do you think I should save up for 1000Mk2 or just get the 500?

That's the reason I go for the W4S SX1000 monos instead of the BCs'.  IMO, I don't see any justification at all....(don't flame me ah)...... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 20, 2010, 20:34
I was quoted $4.5k new for a pair of 500Ms.  Given a choice, I would definitely prefer to get a new instead of used pair.  Now I am in a dilemna.  Anyway, I still have 5 weeks to think about it before my 2.4 arrives. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 20, 2010, 20:59
With 2.4 you dun need to go 1000. Just the 500m is good enough. If budget is a concern, get wyre4sound stereo or mono amps. It's using the same ice power modules. 500 being the newer ones and the 1000 older version. Even if as what francis mention on the VFM part. The BC does implement a cleaner input stage. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 20, 2010, 21:08
Hi Doggie, tks for looking out Bel Canto's for me.  Seriously I think it is a bit overpriced.  New for 1000MK2 is $8k as quoted by Sammy.  $5.9k is beyond my budget, esp. after buying the Thiel.  Moreover, also spent quite a lot on other gears.  Of course if I have the budget now, I will go for 1000mk2. May be I should just KIV until I get the $$$.  Do you think I should save up for 1000Mk2 or just get the 500?

I did the same route that Panerai mentioned: I got the REF1000 (second hand) then upgraded to MkII when I had the cash to do so. But there are no REF1000s these days. It's been phased out, so you can only choose REF500M or REF1000M (rebadged from Mk II).

Personally, I think the REF500M is a gem of an amp. It's using a newer module from the ASP1000 used in the REF1000M and is quieter. And seems like it's slightly less clinical than the REF1000M.

While both the W4S and BCD use the same ICEpower modules, they modify it differently...

Both implement a higher impedance input stage... the BCD's implementation is higher. There's a follow up review of the BCD in this month's stereophile on why that is important.

The BCD also implements an additional power supply regulatory board on the REFxxxM models.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 21:11
I was quoted $4.5k new for a pair of 500Ms.  Given a choice, I would definitely prefer to get a new instead of used pair.  Now I am in a dilemna.  Anyway, I still have 5 weeks to think about it before my 2.4 arrives. 

Most important thing to note when you buy the 500M is , you must make sure that you will never grave the Ref1000mk2 nor would you ever say "Arghh, I wish I had gotten the Ref1000Mk2.". :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 20, 2010, 21:51
Just curious.  Will 500M be adequate to drive 3.7?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 20, 2010, 23:45
Just curious.  Will 500M be adequate to drive 3.7?

Absolutely yes. The word is "adequate" and as long as you don't grave for more power you will be OK.

(Audio)

If you are a passionate person like DH, then it won't do. As I know it, 1000 Watts doesn't quite cut it as he lusts for the Nemo....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ... on June 21, 2010, 10:17
do excuse my participation, but there's a krell being offered locally. not sure of the price but it may be cheaper than the 500m. if you do not mind older equipment and pure class a,it may be the equal or better than the 1000m. look up jenson's, it's still available.

ps just offering an alternative and i do not profit from this
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 21, 2010, 10:26
Thanks bro.  I would give that a miss as I prefer to try ICE module.... 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ... on June 21, 2010, 10:35
no problem
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 21, 2010, 10:40
do excuse my participation, but there's a krell being offered locally. not sure of the price but it may be cheaper than the 500m. if you do not mind older equipment and pure class a,it may be the equal or better than the 1000m. look up jenson's, it's still available.

ps just offering an alternative and i do not profit from this

I think this is a good recommedation nevertheless.  The Thiel Owner thread welcome participations from all groups.  The Planet Audio Equipment Sales section now even sports Mark Levinson and Pass power amps as well.  But I guess all these would cost more than the Bel Cantos.

(Audio)

 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 21, 2010, 10:50
I think the REF1000M gives you an extra few dB headroom but the REF500M may be sweeter.

Personally think I'd be happy with both..



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on June 21, 2010, 10:58
IMO, think no harm loaning the W4S from Raindrop and try it on your 2.4s, both the 500 and 1000 modules, and see which is best suited in your home, my 2 cents....... :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 21, 2010, 11:21
IMO, think no harm loaning the W4S from Raindrop and try it on your 2.4s, both the 500 and 1000 modules, and see which is best suited in your home, my 2 cents....... :)

haha your 2cents is very much worth up to $2k of savings!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 21, 2010, 11:42
Tks for all the advice out there.  I think I will get the 500M since I have heard the 1000MK2 personally at SD, paired with 2.4SE.  I think resale value will also be higher than the other one.....   
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ... on June 21, 2010, 12:03
you trust your ears which is a good thing :D i would suggest you audition the krell at jenson's. he is also selling a thiel 7.2 which is a much more difficult load than the 2.4.listen to them paired to hear an excellent sample of a class a amp ,and then proceed,you may even want to try the w4s amps, it is good to consider alternatives while your money is still in your pocket. should you get the krell,you probably would see zero or little depreciation
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 21, 2010, 13:50
haha your 2cents is very much worth up to $2k of savings!!!  ;D

Even more savings...get the W4S STi-1000 int amp for $3.7k.  Can also save the pre-amp.  Works well with my 2.4.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 21, 2010, 15:31
Will not get an int amp as I already have the airtight preamp.  Unless it does not match with the BCD REF 500M.  Anyway Sam gave me a very good trade in price for my existing ALR Jordan Note 7.  That is why I was so keen to sell of and get the CS2.4.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on June 21, 2010, 15:46
It shud match.  I have the tube pre Allnic L-1500 partnering the SX1000s with wonderful results especially on vocals........hope you find the right pairing...., :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ... on June 21, 2010, 17:09
I think this is a good recommedation nevertheless.  The Thiel Owner thread welcome participations from all groups.  The Planet Audio Equipment Sales section now even sports Mark Levinson and Pass power amps as well.  But I guess all these would cost more than the Bel Cantos.

(Audio)

 
i think the new pass labs and levinsons are overrated. it is likely that the better class d amps are approaching or as good. now, the older levinsons, the 20 and the 33 is another story altogether. the 33 driving the thiel 7.2 would be a system i can live with for a long long time :D 8)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 23, 2010, 20:18

er...Birds-Eye Maple..?? ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 23, 2010, 20:55
You got the Bird's Eye Maple!??

WOW!!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 23, 2010, 21:12

paiseh man,

i actually cant remember what color it is..

but i think should be
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 23, 2010, 23:02
wah bro chewed, you got Thiels.... oh well its a good buy.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 24, 2010, 21:14

er, i think Thiels suit my needs the best
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 25, 2010, 09:42
er, i think Thiels suit my needs the best

Some more, it's the culmination of Thiel's lifework ;) All you really need is a big room to put it in, and that's not going to be an issue where you are moving to...

Lucky for me, it shouldn't be an issue soon :D

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 25, 2010, 10:08
Wah big place huh! Bro chewed, I haven't heard thiel in a big place wor. So far I only Francis's place being the biggest. But he dun have thiels.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 25, 2010, 10:12
Some more, it's the culmination of Thiel's lifework ;) All you really need is a big room to put it in, and that's not going to be an issue where you are moving to...

Lucky for me, it shouldn't be an issue soon :D



Master Bed room? LOL

Anyway, my 300Bs are up and running. Am actually using a couple of KR/Vaic VV52Bs in an Aikido circuit with high current. Am trying to get that 845 sound without the heat. The 2.4s are brilliant! Still need running in though but prognosis is very good.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 25, 2010, 10:13
Wah big place huh! Bro chewed, I haven't heard thiel in a big place wor. So far I only Francis's place being the biggest. But he dun have thiels.

I have and yes, they disappear totally! The bass goes deeper without any overhang.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 25, 2010, 10:32
Master Bed room? LOL

228 inch x 108 inch ok?

Anyway, my 300Bs are up and running. Am actually using a couple of KR/Vaic VV52Bs in an Aikido circuit with high current. Am trying to get that 845 sound without the heat. The 2.4s are brilliant! Still need running in though but prognosis is very good.  ;D


What's 845?

Sound as good as the LAMM?

:D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 25, 2010, 11:29
228 inch x 108 inch ok?


Nice! Make sure you treat the sides to reduce side wall reflections. Where is this?



What's 845?

Sound as good as the LAMM?

:D


The 845 is a directly heated triode, more like the 300B's bigger brother. Bel Canto's first amps used this tube.
 http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/598bel/  (http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/598bel/)

Nothing will sound like a Lamm except for a Lamm made by the man himself.  ;D We can only make it sound pretty close.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 25, 2010, 13:15

Nice! Make sure you treat the sides to reduce side wall reflections. Where is this?

in laws place ;) i figured she'd have less to worry abt with her dad looking over my shoulders :D

The 845 is a directly heated triode, more like the 300B's bigger brother. Bel Canto's first amps used this tube.

Sweet

Nothing will sound like a Lamm except for a Lamm made by the man himself.  ;D We can only make it sound pretty close.

Must come over for a listen soon. Have you SEd your 2.4s? ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 25, 2010, 13:29
Nice! Make sure you treat the sides to reduce side wall reflections. Where is this?

in laws place ;) i figured she'd have less to worry abt with her dad looking over my shoulders :D

The 845 is a directly heated triode, more like the 300B's bigger brother. Bel Canto's first amps used this tube.

Sweet

Nothing will sound like a Lamm except for a Lamm made by the man himself.  ;D We can only make it sound pretty close.

Must come over for a listen soon. Have you SEd your 2.4s? ;)


Not yet... but soon  ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: vajrasattvasg on June 25, 2010, 14:48
Master Bed room? LOL

Anyway, my 300Bs are up and running. Am actually using a couple of KR/Vaic VV52Bs in an Aikido circuit with high current. Am trying to get that 845 sound without the heat. The 2.4s are brilliant! Still need running in though but prognosis is very good.  ;D

wahh.. single ended or pushpull 300b? enough juice for thiel?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 25, 2010, 15:04
wahh.. single ended or pushpull 300b? enough juice for thiel?

Single Ended about 10-12W. Thanks to the Thiels' pretty flat impedance of course, it makes it easier for tube amps to push.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 25, 2010, 15:44
Sometimes, I cannot understand the logic of Hi Fi.......

Just a simple thing like a power cord could GREATLY affect the sound of the system, wouldn't something like a output transformer between the tube and the speaker affect the sound???

:)

(Audio)

Just poke fun a bit.......



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 25, 2010, 16:29
Sometimes, I cannot understand the logic of Hi Fi.......

Just a simple thing like a power cord could GREATLY affect the sound of the system, wouldn't something like a output transformer between the tube and the speaker affect the sound???

:)

(Audio)

Just poke fun a bit.......


Audio,

EVERYTHING plays a part when your speakers are transparent enough. The internal wires, coupling capacitors, resistors, type of PCB, PCB tracks, purity of the tracks, component layout, chassis material, and these are just the passive devices.

With the Thiels, what ever changes that I make, I can hear them. Be it power cords, RFI filtering, interconnects, supports, etc.  They're almost as good as a pair of single-driver full range speakers.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on June 25, 2010, 21:14
As far as I know maple bird's eye finishing is expensive.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 25, 2010, 21:23
As far as I know maple bird's eye finishing is expensive.

indeed! Rare!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 26, 2010, 21:41
Folks, just to share my joy.  I place a deposit for walnut CS2.4 last week and was told by Sam that it will take about 5 weeks to arrive.  Today I went down to SD to auditon the REF 500M.  Goh told me they have a Amber finish at their warehouse.  I called Sam immediately and asked him wat is the best price.  He gave me an offer that is simply irresistible.  I traded in my Airtight ATC 2 for a damn good price and I got the REF 500M as well.  Now I am enjoying it very much...
Anyway the only disappointment was that the speakers did not come with a receptacle for the attachment of the spikes.  Nevertheless, Sam told me that they have spares for it and will be able to rectify the fault. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 26, 2010, 21:56
Congrats :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 27, 2010, 04:23
Welcome aboard!

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 27, 2010, 09:41
Welcome clicquot99!

Anyway, for those of your wanting to be part of the global family, there's a Facebook page that you can join in.
 http://www.facebook.com/thiel.loudspeakers  (http://www.facebook.com/thiel.loudspeakers)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on June 27, 2010, 12:31
Folks, just to share my joy.  I place a deposit for walnut CS2.4 last week and was told by Sam that it will take about 5 weeks to arrive.  Today I went down to SD to auditon the REF 500M.  Goh told me they have a Amber finish at their warehouse.  I called Sam immediately and asked him wat is the best price.  He gave me an offer that is simply irresistible.  I traded in my Airtight ATC 2 for a damn good price and I got the REF 500M as well.  Now I am enjoying it very much...
Anyway the only disappointment was that the speakers did not come with a receptacle for the attachment of the spikes.  Nevertheless, Sam told me that they have spares for it and will be able to rectify the fault. 

you are confusing me the amber finishing you are refering is the thiels speaker or the ref 500m?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 27, 2010, 13:20
He is too kancheong already mah :) He was talking abt the walnut finish and switching it to amberwood.

The REF500M is only available in 2 finishes, standard black/aluminium or black/dark aluminium.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 27, 2010, 14:13
The only thing that puzzles me is why this particular Amber Wood 2.4 pair has no receptable for the attachment for spikes.......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 27, 2010, 15:40
The "receptable" for 2.4 is removable one meh?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 27, 2010, 21:11
Maybe he meant the spikes themselves? I think mine came in a separate box, or it was the outriggers. Can't recall.

Just checked the base of the 2.4s and I am pretty sure the holes are drilled into the base already.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 27, 2010, 22:48
Drilled and threaded......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 28, 2010, 16:31
Folks, drilled but not threaded unfortunately.  sam says the hole is supposed to hold the receptable that is threaded so that you can screwed the spikes in.  You mean it is not so?  Oh no.... Pl advise. If it cannot be rectified and indeed a manufacturer's fault, i will have to reject the goods :-)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 28, 2010, 16:47
The hole should be threaded. You just screw the spikes directly in. There is an optional outrigger that also screws into the same hole. But that's optional.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 28, 2010, 18:03
The hole should be threaded. You just screw the spikes directly in. There is an optional outrigger that also screws into the same hole. But that's optional.



Come to think of it...u don't normally thead on wood.  U thread on metal.  Thus clicquot99 might be right.  The metal pieces are pushed into the holes, and the thread is on the metal pieces.  I roughly remember screwing the spikes into some metal...but I'm too lazy to lift up my heavy 2.4 to check.   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on June 28, 2010, 20:35
Lol if screw the spike into the wood i sure the hole will break/crack even before the speaker stand on floor, check google for different type of "wood insert nut".....
(http://origin-images.ttnet.net/pi/eto/10/03/35/61/10033561-12.gif)

Need to insert this type of nut before can screw the spike in, I sure Thiel would not mind to mail some of this nut for free ;D




Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 28, 2010, 21:03
I think Joamonte is right.  The metal receptacle is supposed to be fitted into the base of the speaker's hole to accept the spikes.  Unfortunately, the manufacturer did not fit the metal receptacle into the drilled hole.  SD was quite surprise over this fault as it has never happen before. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: earlgrey on June 29, 2010, 01:47
The metal receptacle is not screwed into the drilled hole of the wood. It's insert with some glue and the spike will then be screw into the holes. Anyway I get to know that coz my 2.4 have got 2 loose ones, once I try to screw out my spike, the metal holder will follow it off the base. ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: joamonte on June 29, 2010, 04:20
The metal receptacle is not screwed into the drilled hole of the wood. It's insert with some glue and the spike will then be screw into the holes. Anyway I get to know that coz my 2.4 have got 2 loose ones, once I try to screw out my spike, the metal holder will follow it off the base. ;)

They use glue type of insert nut??....think that might explain why the nut is loss..;D ;D

Anyway, it's a small issue IMHO....the more I tested Thiel the more I respect this brand, recently just measured a 3.7 , and like so far most of the Thiel I measured it got very flat mid high even in non acoustic treated room, which is not the case for some other famous  brand.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 29, 2010, 16:01
Hi to all 3.7 owners. Just wondering how many of you traded in your 2.4 for a 3.7 with SD?  Did you all get a good price for the trade-in?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 29, 2010, 16:07
*Raised hand*

Me!!  Reasonable price lah.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 29, 2010, 16:33
The 2.4 is a really nice speaker. Typical Thiel sound signature. I think most of the 3.7 owners here are all upgraders from previous models, tho not necessarily from 2.4s.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 29, 2010, 17:10
Hi to all 3.7 owners. Just wondering how many of you traded in your 2.4 for a 3.7 with SD?  Did you all get a good price for the trade-in?

you just got your 2.4 now thinking of 3.7 ah?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 29, 2010, 17:19
Just thinking.....  The sound of 2.4 is really very good.  So I think the next upgrade is definitely 3.7.  The question is when... So just trying to get mkt sensing on the trade-in value for 2.4 :-)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 29, 2010, 17:30
Just thinking.....  The sound of 2.4 is really very good.  So I think the next upgrade is definitely 3.7.  The question is when... So just trying to get mkt sensing on the trade-in value for 2.4 :-)

The 3.7 is the culmination of many years of experience by the late Jim Thiel. The mids and highs are a bit sweeter than the 2.4s and the bass seems to just dig deeper than the paper specs (1Hz difference).

If it wasn't for my itchy backside, I think I would have been happy with my 2.4s for a long time...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 29, 2010, 17:36
Hi Doggie,  that is the "problem" with hifi.  One never seems to be satisfied and keep looking out for better, or should I say "more expensive" equipments to upgrade.. :P...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 29, 2010, 17:37
If it wasn't for my itchy backside, I think I would have been happy with my 2.4s for a long time...


REALLY?    :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 29, 2010, 17:40
zhende!!
 ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on June 29, 2010, 17:41
Hi Earlgrey, if not for you, I would not have the spare receptacles.  I was told by Sam that one of his customer's speakers' receptable was loose. Because of this, he has to order for you..... So I guess you are the customer he is talking about...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on June 29, 2010, 17:56

REALLY?    :)

(Audio)

REALLY... thanks to you, after he heard your 3.7 lor.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 29, 2010, 20:29
eh...does this mean DH ordered his 3.7 liao?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 29, 2010, 20:37
Like I said, a lot of wayang in XP.........

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on June 29, 2010, 20:44
.......

If it wasn't for my itchy backside, I think I would have been happy with my 2.4s for a long time...


yah, right.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 30, 2010, 09:47
yah, right.....

It was an offer I couldn't refuse ;)

I think in my current room, I am pretty sure the 2.4s are more than adequate... I was listening again last night and still quite surprised how little the room node intrudes for most of my music now. A lot of the boom I heard seemed to be cable related and swapping out for some ESP cords seemed to have helped a lot.

The 3.7s would probably benefit if I shifted the layout of the gear in the same room or have a bigger room to move to :P

@Audio, deal only inked on Friday leh...
:D


Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on June 30, 2010, 09:54
Wow, I really envy members here with deep pocket!!........ :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: dXter on June 30, 2010, 10:00
Economy must be very good. Noticed a lot of upgraders to the 3.7s popping up. :D
What will happen to the 2.4s, SD sell as pre-owned? Help to benefit people like me who cannot afford hi-end at 1st hand prices.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 30, 2010, 10:44
Yeah, it would be a good time to pop over to Sound Decisions and "chope" these traded-in pairs before they go to some second hand dealer. Don't bargain too much or you'll definitely lose out.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 30, 2010, 11:05
It was an offer I couldn't refuse ;)

I think in my current room, I am pretty sure the 2.4s are more than adequate... I was listening again last night and still quite surprised how little the room node intrudes for most of my music now. A lot of the boom I heard seemed to be cable related and swapping out for some ESP cords seemed to have helped a lot.

The 3.7s would probably benefit if I shifted the layout of the gear in the same room or have a bigger room to move to :P

@Audio, deal only inked on Friday leh...
:D


But I witness the handshake in SD on Friday night (18 June) when I mentioned about the 2 new unannounced 3.7 XP owners in page 62 of this thread.

Inked means paid money only lah.....

Still a lot of wayang since....   :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on June 30, 2010, 11:10
Thiel owners are full of hyperbole and prone to chest thumping.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on June 30, 2010, 11:13
It was an offer I couldn't refuse ;)

@Audio, deal only inked on Friday leh...
:D


DH,

Congrats...
Looking forward to the pics when the new pair is in.
Any idea of the ETA??
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 30, 2010, 11:20
But I witness the handshake in SD on Friday night (18 June) when I mentioned about the 2 new unannounced 3.7 XP owners in page 62 of this thread.

18 June I was in company event ;) so it couldn't have been me...

Hence it was a valid question I asked :D

I think putting money down is more legit. In legal speak: it means there's consideration :D

DH,

Congrats...
Looking forward to the pics when the new pair is in.
Any idea of the ETA??

Thanks.. I am in no hurry, but shd be here in Aug, I believe.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 30, 2010, 12:15
18 June I was in company event ;) so it couldn't have been me...

Hence it was a valid question I asked :D

I think putting money down is more legit. In legal speak: it means there's consideration :D

Thanks.. I am in no hurry, but shd be here in Aug, I believe.

Oh, yes, I was mistaken!!  The handshake actually occurred the week before....11 June 2010....laagi more wayang by an extra week.   That was way back in Page 59 when you revived this Thiel Owners thread since April.  Ha ha ha haaaaa....18 June was when I almost cannot tahan the wayang anymore.....

Speakers should be in time when you come back from Hong Kong with lots of media!!  (And probably cables as well)

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 30, 2010, 13:03
Handshake was when I said goodbye leh.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 30, 2010, 13:52
Strange?  I thought I heard "Deal" when you shook his hand    :)

What language's "Goodbye" sounds like "Deal" har??

How many of you shake hands with Sammy when you want to say "goodbye"?   Hahahahahah

(Audio)

You make a good lawyer if your are sick of your current job........
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 30, 2010, 14:02
I don't have 30 years of friendship leh :)

Ps I did get accepted into Law at NUS but couldn't afford without any sponsorship.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on June 30, 2010, 14:11
I don't have 30 years of friendship leh :)

Ps I did get accepted into Law at NUS but couldn't afford without any sponsorship.

Tsk tsk tsk...where were you when Michael's backside parted?  His backside could have been spared if you had a sponsor.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 30, 2010, 14:39
tokking kok != good lawyer

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: slkk on June 30, 2010, 17:02
Bro Audio, Have mercy la!!! I think it's time that you all come over for a cupper!  Cool?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on June 30, 2010, 20:12
Got coffee for me boh?  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: slkk on June 30, 2010, 20:49
Of course!! Anytime bro.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on July 01, 2010, 09:51
Heh...Looks like Audio and Francis have a secondary "mission" in Hong Kong now - Operation DH  ::) :P

Speakers should be in time when you come back from Hong Kong with lots of media!!  (And probably cables as well)

(Audio)

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 01, 2010, 10:14
As good friends we have a duty to make sure he fully enjoy his vacation.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Wymun on July 01, 2010, 10:19
Heheh..."The force is strong with this one"....

As good friends we have a duty to make sure he fully enjoy his vacation.....

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 01, 2010, 10:28
I am sticking with what I know.

Good quality sources.. and some RCA interconnects.

QED
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 01, 2010, 12:23
I am sticking with what I know.

Good quality sources.. and some RCA interconnects.

QED

You using QED interconnects???

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 01, 2010, 12:31
Only have some coax cables from QED and some optical from my old MD setup
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 02, 2010, 14:06
Tonight we go have coffee......yes??

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 02, 2010, 14:09
sure. :) on me this time, since u paid for dinner last week
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 02, 2010, 14:11
sure. :) on me this time, since u paid for dinner last week

I thought Sammy offered coffee??

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: slkk on July 02, 2010, 16:57
Bro, This evening cannot la. got site meeting. Next Friday confirm!!!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2010, 00:12
As it turned out, everyone was occuppied so I headed back home for a "quiet" night in.

It gave me some time to use the living room as my extended den. Hooked up some Essence MusicordPro/ProES cords I picked up from AudioTrio a while back and replace the rest of the iego cords I still had in the system.

I think sometimes you end up tweaking and trying to observe if there are any changes that you forget to sit back and enjoy the music, so it was a great couple of hours after I hooked the cords up where I did just that.. sat back and enjoyed the music.

In times like this, having a media player helps a lot. Cued up some AMei collections on the iPod/Wadia and let them rip through the Benchmark DAC1. It's been a while since I actually listened to these songs on the hifi and all the tinkering I'd been doing these last few months.. tonight I was reaping the results. A lot of that old boom (that I had attributed to the room mode) was now gone.. cured by the cords and what's left behind wasn't distracting.

After the playlist, I got a bit itchy and decided to spin some silver discs first. I am really liking what bro stealth had done on the Marantz SA8003. The mods actually made this player sound much punchier than my Benchmark DAC1. The Benoit album I heard at stealth's place sounded just brilliant.

And not content with that, I finally spun some records. As usual, nothing beats the new AC/DC Iron Man 2 LP to get my blood racing again. The SA8003 was good, but the 40 year old Thorens deck with the Jelco 750D and the DL103R, motor now powered by a MusicordPro, driven through the Bel Canto Phono3, also uprated with a MusicordProES cord.. WOW! That combo is something else!!!

I think my barely run in RSA F117 is still a bit too heavy handed with the bass (with the 103R partnership) so the Phono3 gave me back that balance. I suspect the RSA may be a better partner for the leaner Sumiko Blackbird. But that's an experiment for another day.

Right now, these few cathartic hours have put back what the long week at work took out of me.

At times like this, we remember why we love this hobby so much :)



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2010, 00:19
In other news.. the much feared price increase is now confirmed. At least, they are giving you a chance for a last time buy at the old prices...

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/news/EN0610_julypriceincCONSUMER.html

Quote
On July 15, 2010, THIEL will increase the prices on select THIEL models, some for the first time in over 10 years, some for the first time ever.

There's still time for you to visit your nearest authorized THIEL dealer and purchase these speakers before the price increase.

The models affected and their current and upcoming prices* are as follows:

Model Current Price  Price after 7/15 Last Price Increase
CS2.4 (pair) $4,900  $5,900 2006
SCS4 (single) $990  $1,190 never
MCS1 (single) $2,200  $2,950 never
SS2 SmartSub® (single) $4,900  $5,900 never
CS2.4 Outriggers (pair) $300  $600 2003
CS3.7 Outriggers (pair) $500  $800 never


Hmm, so looks like no price increase for the 3.7 but the 2.4s are going up by 1k per pair. The MCS1 is almost 750 bucks dearer per speaker.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on July 03, 2010, 00:20
So, what are going to do with your Project and Allnic..... ???
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2010, 00:48
Ran out of space for a second rack! :P

The Project was too tall once I placed it on top of the top shelf of the rack, have to strain my neck to watch anything above it :(

Still haven't decided if the Allnic or the RSA will work better with the Project.. need some time to test out.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on July 03, 2010, 10:46
so DH, your system boom due to the iego power cord?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2010, 10:57
Not sure. Replacing it with the ESP seemed to help a lot. Actually, it's one of the claims of the ESP power cords marketing literature. To reduce the midbass hump. I did also use the ESP Reference Distributors, which supposedly gives some of the Reference character to regular cords. The iego is a faily thick gauge wire I think, and stealth had suggested using a thinner gauge may help with controlling the bass.

The room mode is still 50Hz, but I think the curve is narrower and steeper now.

Weird that even power cords connected to the AC motor of a TT can affect the sound!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 03, 2010, 11:07
Power cords directly affect your signal by it's proximity to your delicate stuff. The better the power cord's shielding, the less influence it will have. Inherent EMI field suppression. The better the shielding the higher the suppression. Try and A/B a stock PC with one that has better shielding, connected to your most delicate component. :D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ... on July 03, 2010, 11:23
As it turned out, everyone was occuppied so I headed back home for a "quiet" night in.

It gave me some time to use the living room as my extended den. Hooked up some Essence MusicordPro/ProES cords I picked up from AudioTrio a while back and replace the rest of the iego cords I still had in the system.

I think sometimes you end up tweaking and trying to observe if there are any changes that you forget to sit back and enjoy the music, so it was a great couple of hours after I hooked the cords up where I did just that.. sat back and enjoyed the music.

In times like this, having a media player helps a lot. Cued up some AMei collections on the iPod/Wadia and let them rip through the Benchmark DAC1. It's been a while since I actually listened to these songs on the hifi and all the tinkering I'd been doing these last few months.. tonight I was reaping the results. A lot of that old boom (that I had attributed to the room mode) was now gone.. cured by the cords and what's left behind wasn't distracting.

After the playlist, I got a bit itchy and decided to spin some silver discs first. I am really liking what bro stealth had done on the Marantz SA8003. The mods actually made this player sound much punchier than my Benchmark DAC1. The Benoit album I heard at stealth's place sounded just brilliant.

And not content with that, I finally spun some records. As usual, nothing beats the new AC/DC Iron Man 2 LP to get my blood racing again. The SA8003 was good, but the 40 year old Thorens deck with the Jelco 750D and the DL103R, motor now powered by a MusicordPro, driven through the Bel Canto Phono3, also uprated with a MusicordProES cord.. WOW! That combo is something else!!!

I think my barely run in RSA F117 is still a bit too heavy handed with the bass (with the 103R partnership) so the Phono3 gave me back that balance. I suspect the RSA may be a better partner for the leaner Sumiko Blackbird. But that's an experiment for another day.

Right now, these few cathartic hours have put back what the long week at work took out of me.

At times like this, we remember why we love this hobby so much :)




can't fathom why your f117 is bass weighty,mine is extremely even-handed.if you'd like,you could come over to listen to my system,could help in figuring out the reason
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2010, 11:56
Could be the cart. Think Volks also uses the same cart 103R.

Kinda why I thot it wud be a better match to the sumiko.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: WKL on July 05, 2010, 15:34
Any bro here who plan to upgrade to CS3.7, I'm very keen to take your CS2.4 & join the club  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 05, 2010, 17:47
I think most of the bros owning the 2.4 out there will most likely trade-in to get the 3.7 since Sam will most likely offer a very irresistable trade-in value for the 3.7 which one can hardly sell in the secondhand market.  Why not you try asking Sam how much he is willing to take in your old speakers? From my experience he gave me a very good price which I cannot get it elsewhere... No harm asking him....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 05, 2010, 19:30
Get second hand from Sammy.  The advantage of that is that the dealer here will continue with your warranty.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 05, 2010, 20:52
Power cords directly affect your signal by it's proximity to your delicate stuff. The better the power cord's shielding, the less influence it will have. Inherent EMI field suppression. The better the shielding the higher the suppression. Try and A/B a stock PC with one that has better shielding, connected to your most delicate component. :D

1 thing to note about the IeGO power cord L70530 is the cable itself has in place a very effective copper foil shielding. However factory fitted direct from Taiwan, they did not connect the copper foil shield to the earth pin. Thus leaving it floating. It may or may not help in isolating emi noises. For my own cords I have re-terminated them to be actively earth shielded. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: WKL on July 06, 2010, 17:41
Get second hand from Sammy.  The advantage of that is that the dealer here will continue with your warranty.

(Audio)

Tks. Will try look for Sammy b4 the 15-Jul effective  :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 06, 2010, 17:47
Tks. Will try look for Sammy b4 the 15-Jul effective  :)

Good luck :) and welcome to the family!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 07, 2010, 06:09
I love to read Thiel owners' thread, are there any other ones like this other than this one and the one in AVSforum? Anyway, just replaced my "noname" L + R speakers to a pr of used CS2.4 few weeks ago, and now need to look into upgrading my center channel with a SCS4 before the price increase. I think I saw one person with this setup, I am not sure if this is a good match, timbre wise. I've read a lot of reviews that they don't sound the same, but according to Thiel, all their speakers are timbre matched, so I am not so sure.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 07, 2010, 07:33
One anecdote I heard the other day. At the final stage of the design, after all the measurements and calibrations, the late Jim Thiel used to tune his speaker designs by ear, the way they sounded to him. I guess that's why there's this claim that they are timbre matched. :)

The tweeter in the SCS4 is IIRC based off the 3.7 one so that's already a good start. I know of one owner at least using it with the CS1.6 as part of a LCR setup. I recall he mentioned when one 1.6 was being repaired, he experimented with the SCS4 as one the stereo pair and it didn't sound that different despite using using different drivers, enclosures and even configurations (coax 2 way vs conventional two way drivers.

Also interesting to note is that the SCS4 is one of the newest speakers and the 1.6 has been out for almost 10 years and they still share this family trait.

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 07, 2010, 10:10
Surely, there will be differences as the model of the speakers are not the same.  The drivers, the layouts, the cabinet size, the crossovers are different. But the chance of getting it wrong is less likely with speakers of the same series or brand.  You can do a lot worse getting speakers from other brands to match.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on July 07, 2010, 10:35
I love to read Thiel owners' thread, are there any other ones like this other than this one and the one in AVSforum? Anyway, just replaced my "noname" L + R speakers to a pr of used CS2.4 few weeks ago, and now need to look into upgrading my center channel with a SCS4 before the price increase. I think I saw one person with this setup, I am not sure if this is a good match, timbre wise. I've read a lot of reviews that they don't sound the same, but according to Thiel, all their speakers are timbre matched, so I am not so sure.

Richard,

i'm using SCS4 as a center spkr, no problems at all. One thing to note b4 taking the pluge with MSC-1 as centre, it's one huge spkr! make sure u have enuf space for it.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 07, 2010, 11:49
Richard,

i'm using SCS4 as a center spkr, no problems at all. One thing to note b4 taking the pluge with MSC-1 as centre, it's one huge spkr! make sure u have enuf space for it.

.....and I am one such example of a owner who is currently suffering from this.  It is simply so big that it block out about lower 2 inches of my screen.  To resolve the issue, I am now getting another rack to spread my equipment sideway and lower the Center speaker altogether.  It's 30-day leadtime for delivery.......   :(

(Audio)



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 07, 2010, 12:18
I was gonna wait and get an used MCS1 but they are so hard to come by, noone wants to get rid of it. that might change, once Thiel comes out with a center that matches the 3.7...so with the price increase coming, MCS1 will be even more out of my price range, that's why I am settling on the SCS4. The MCS1 will be almost 3X more than the SCS4, and I don't think it's 3X better. ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 07, 2010, 12:30
I was gonna wait and get an used MCS1 but they are so hard to come by, noone wants to get rid of it. that might change, once Thiel comes out with a center that matches the 3.7...so with the price increase coming, MCS1 will be even more out of my price range, that's why I am settling on the SCS4. The MCS1 will be almost 3X more than the SCS4, and I don't think it's 3X better. ;)


I will go with that if I were you.  You are absolutely right, it is very difficult to find used MSC-1.  Even when there is one available, it is normally quite close to the retail price, which shows the value of this speaker.  Owners are keeping their MSC-1 to themselves. (Pssst, let you in on a secret, I actually look for a used pair but it never materialised, which is a good thing).

If ever I go insane and wanted more surround speakers, it would probably be a pair of SCS4.

(Audio)





Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: wylee on July 07, 2010, 14:04
I have been scouting around unsuccessfully for a used MSC 1 for 1.5 years. Managed to come across one at a second hand shop but with dented drivers. Finally grab the last one from Sunny of SD last month. The MSC 1 is not you normal smallish centre speaker it is 2/3 the size of my 2.4 and it is really heavy. When I tried to lift it up almost the same as one side of the cs2.4 so your back. ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 07, 2010, 14:18
I was gonna wait and get an used MCS1 but they are so hard to come by, noone wants to get rid of it. that might change, once Thiel comes out with a center that matches the 3.7...so with the price increase coming, MCS1 will be even more out of my price range, that's why I am settling on the SCS4. The MCS1 will be almost 3X more than the SCS4, and I don't think it's 3X better. ;)

Another option you may want to consider is a used PCS, if you can still find them. They look like mini 2.4s :) and also share a similar driver layout. Cute innit?

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/243/

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/thiel2/trio.html

(http://www.stereo.co.jp/lis.files/photos/yoshi_SP/SP_THIEL-PCS.jpg)

I think I would be happy with the SCS4 but at that time, I happened to find a pre-owned MCS-1 so quickly snapped it up,

If you are using the SCS4 as a satellite stereo speaker, you probably need a sub that can integrate with it but for center channel use, I think the AVR's bass management should handle that easily. While the MCS1 is bigger, it still requires some bass management if you want to go really down low.

Getting an SS2/S1 or PX05 would provide the most seamless integration with the subwoofer for both stereo and HT use, but I guess that's probably gonna stretch your budget out even more.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on July 07, 2010, 15:30
the PCS would be something i dun mind using now...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 07, 2010, 15:55
Are there even any in SG?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on July 07, 2010, 16:08

doubt it. only saw it once on audiogon
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 07, 2010, 16:20
I think I saw a pair on sales (2nd hand) a few years ago.

Who don't want?   Portable 2.4!!!

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 07, 2010, 16:32
Actually, John Potis prefers the PCS to the 2.4! but it fell short of the Blue Moon award (that the 2.4 got) because it didn't extend as low as the 2.4 :P

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/thiel2/trio_3.html

Quote
In the end, I found the previously reviewed Thiel CS 2.4 to be lively and as I have just described. However, with or without the SS2, I find the PCS to be just a touch more laid back and relaxed. Perhaps it was voiced this way to achieve its balance as a stand-alone speaker. Be that as it may, I found it a more engaging speaker than the CS 2.4. That's pretty high praise when you recall that I thought highly enough of the CS 2.4 to award it a Blue Moon for "setting a new high-water mark in the sub $5000 speaker category". Due to its limited bass output, I can't do the same for the PCS as a stand-alone speaker but I will tell you this: With or without a sub, I'd rather live with the PCS. That's actually an easy choice for me.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 08, 2010, 17:47
There are a few pairs in Singapore. Beautiful imaging.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 08, 2010, 22:08
has anybody heard ML326S?  Need your comments on the sound.....  I thought of trying out the Nagra PL-L or ML326S. Any advise for me please.  Wonder how it will sound with the Thiel CS2.4 and Bel Cantos amps.  Play classical music almost all the time, so huge sound stage, dimension and clarity is a must. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 08, 2010, 23:58
What is your source?

Is a pre-amp necessary?

If you don't need a pre-amp, personally, I don't see any advantage your ML326S will bring you. If really want to do a ML, better pair it with a ML power amp as well.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 09, 2010, 09:06
Source is Esoteric SA-50.  I prefer a pre-amp as it brings out more dimension and character to the overall music presentation as compared to bypassing preamp and using CD player as one.  So I just want to find out anyone has heard either the ML326S or Nagra and if so, what are their characteristics and how they sound with Thiels.  No point going down to audition at their showroom as all their equipment are different.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 11, 2010, 12:26
Just heard the Thiel CS2.4s being driven by Electrocompaniets yesterday at Sound Decisions. Amazing control especially in the bass. A totally different presentation to the Bel Cantos.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: meatballz on July 12, 2010, 17:02
Just heard the Thiel CS2.4s being driven by Electrocompaniets yesterday at Sound Decisions. Amazing control especially in the bass. A totally different presentation to the Bel Cantos.


class A or A/B amplifier will outperform any class d or ice based amp over the entire range of frequencies. This is precisely the reason I stay away those amps.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on July 12, 2010, 22:24
class A or A/B amplifier will outperform any class d or ice based amp over the entire range of frequencies. This is precisely the reason I stay away those amps.

Class D amp will outperform any class A or A/B amps over the entire range of frequencies.  This is precisely the reason I stayed away from those amps......... ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jonlee on July 12, 2010, 22:46
Class A, AB or D amp.  Can give good music to make ones goose pimples stand up, 就是好amp!
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 12, 2010, 22:50
I've heard good Class A, AB, B, D, J and T amps and I've also heard bad Class A, AB, B, D, J and T amps. It's not the Class of amps but the execution of the design. I've made and heard good and bad tube and solid state amps as well, regardless of class. I guess these variances make the world go 'round.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 13, 2010, 00:59
anyone using Emotiva amp(s) to drive their Thiel, especially CS2.4.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 13, 2010, 10:53
I certainly agree with DIYer Straits. Good or bad sounding depends on the design and not so much of the Classes of Amp per se. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 13, 2010, 10:55
Dear Bel Cantos users,  I would like to seek your opinion and views on the sonic differences between the REF500M and the REF1000MK2.  I own the REF500M and now, feeling the itch to upgrade to REF1000MK2, esp. I am thinking of upgrading my CS2.4 to 3.7.  Your frank opinions please.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on July 13, 2010, 11:50
Dear Bel Cantos users,  I would like to seek your opinion and views on the sonic differences between the REF500M and the REF1000MK2.  I own the REF500M and now, feeling the itch to upgrade to REF1000MK2, esp. I am thinking of upgrading my CS2.4 to 3.7.  Your frank opinions please.

Hi Clic,

In my most honest opinion, buy the highest watt one can afford especially for amplifier.
Been there done that.
I always believe, do it once do it right so there will not be uncecessary wastage of funds when upgrading.
Selling to upgrade usually loses more than using that amount to go for higher models.
All the best.


Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 13, 2010, 13:25
Dear Bel Cantos users,  I would like to seek your opinion and views on the sonic differences between the REF500M and the REF1000MK2.  I own the REF500M and now, feeling the itch to upgrade to REF1000MK2, esp. I am thinking of upgrading my CS2.4 to 3.7.  Your frank opinions please.

You would be hard pressed to hear the difference between the REF500M and REF1000M with the CS2.4s as the latter's resolving qualities are pale in comparison to that of the CS3.7s. I'd be happy with th e REF500Ms though.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 14, 2010, 12:11
finally ordered a SCS4 to go with my CS2.4 before the price increase. I ordered the dark cherry color, even though my CS2.4s are in natural cherry. I was afraid natural cherry might be too light and reflex some of the light from the projector. And black is just too boring looking.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 14:05
finally ordered a SCS4 to go with my CS2.4 before the price increase. I ordered the dark cherry color, even though my CS2.4s are in natural cherry. I was afraid natural cherry might be too light and reflex some of the light from the projector. And black is just too boring looking.


Good choice!

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 14, 2010, 14:35
Just to share my joy with fellow Thiel and Bel Canto users, I will be trading in my REF500 for the REF1000 this Friday.  Sammy was kind enough to offer me a good deal.  Better upgrade it to the max so that I won't think of it again.....  Then I can focus on saving up for the 3.7.....   ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 14, 2010, 14:54
Damn.. now make me itchy to get REF500M for the rear channels.

As Audio always says: la see shiong son
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 14:55
Just to share my joy with fellow Thiel and Bel Canto users, I will be trading in my REF500 for the REF1000 this Friday.  Sammy was kind enough to offer me a good deal.  Better upgrade it to the max so that I won't think of it again.....  Then I can focus on saving up for the 3.7.....   ;D

You're my kind of guy!!   Congrat!!

(Audio)

If only people can act like this when they cannot sleep at night......ha ha haa....meant no offence....poking fun a bit.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 14, 2010, 15:26
You also couldn't sleep after hearing Tong Li's saliva sound...

hehe
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 15:34
You also couldn't sleep after hearing Tong Li's saliva sound...

hehe


You think why I am looking forward to see Tong Li be included for the mini-concerts in this year's Hong Kong show??

Last year's show with Lily is dammn shiok  Someone even managed to shook the hand of lily.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 14, 2010, 15:59
I meant the saliva sound from the Silversmith speaker cables :P

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 16:05
And as you are aware, armed with clicquot99 consumer policy, I went back to Sammy and bought my Silversmith speaker cable the next day.......actually include the centre channel one as well.....who knows, saliva noise could come to centre channel one day.

Next objective is to be able to listen to live saliva noise!!! 

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 14, 2010, 16:26
Hi Audio, how does silversmith cables sound?  Is it expensive? Forgive my ignorance as i have never heard of the brand before....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 14, 2010, 18:09
Hi Audio, how does silversmith cables sound?  Is it expensive? Forgive my ignorance as i have never heard of the brand before....

They are pretty damn good and sound excellent and offer IMHO pretty decent bang for the buck.

But because they are ribbon designs, it may be a bit more fragile and may look a bit less "polished" than some factory made cables. These cables are all hand made IIRC.

You can read one review here:
http://www.stereophile.com/cables/605silversmith/

where it gets pitted against the more expensive Nordost Valhalla cables.

Jim Thiel also uses silver ribbon cables but I can't recall the brand offhand now..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 14, 2010, 18:12
anyone using Emotiva amp(s) to drive their Thiel, especially CS2.4.

This is a review of the 3.7 driven by the XPA1
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/two-channel-speakers/518-a-secrets-speaker-review.html?start=2

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 18:36
Hi Audio, how does silversmith cables sound?  Is it expensive? Forgive my ignorance as i have never heard of the brand before....

Neither had I......

Problem started when I was auditioning a pair of Nordost Heimdall.  The Silversmith was loaned to me as a consideration.

The Nordost performance was impressive, fast, detailed and easily outperformed my former speaker cables. I already made my decision when it was way past midnight, I was about to retire to bed.  But I was uncomfortable leaving the Silversmith untouched in the bag to be returned the next day.  So, I thought just wire it up for a quick listen, at least, I can face the dealer who loaned me that I had indeed tried his cables.

What supposed to be a quick 5-min listen evolved into a 2-hour session.  The sound with the Silversmith is so focused, there's hardly any grain in the sound at all...it is just so refined, a 2-notch improvement over my former cable.  Mids are more pronounced without changing the overall tonal balance.  I thought the Nordost is so transparent already and I was a little unprepared to experience what the Silversmith had brought about.

Yes, it is a no-brainer decision to pick the Silversmith but it is also more than 2 times the price of the Nordost Heimdall.

The Silversmith Audio speaker cable makes the most impact to the sound than the interconnects......but it's good nevertheless and the interconnects had gone into my system just early this month.

(Audio)

La See Shiong Son......................
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on July 14, 2010, 18:46

What supposed to be a quick 5-min listen evolved into a 2-hour session.  The sound with the Silversmith is so focused, there's hardly any grain in the sound at all...it is just so refined, a 2-notch improvement over my former cable.  Mids are more pronounced without changing the overall tonal balance.  I thought the Nordost is so transparent already and I was a little unprepared to experience what the Silversmith had brought about.

Yes, it is a no-brainer decision to pick the Silversmith but it is also more than 2 times the price of the Nordost Heimdall.

The Silversmith Audio speaker cable makes the most impact to the sound than the interconnects......but it's good nevertheless and the interconnects had gone into my system just early this month.

(Audio)

La See Shiong Son......................


Hi Audio,

How did the Silversmiths tidy up on the lows? did it improve on the speed and texture of the bass produced by the 3.7? I would imagine the lows shoudl already be very well controlled with the BC ref1000m and alum woofer of the 3.7.

If it does good to a big extend, then it certainly sounds very interesting as I am trying to find ways to better the dynamism, explosive transient and control on the lows of my Class A amp.


Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2010, 19:01
Buying these high end cables are like buying another power amp. Be prepared! U should have kept ur ref500m n got the silversmith. Haha. Audio u jialat. Poison everyone here.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 19:01
Hi Audio,

How did the Silversmiths tidy up on the lows? did it improve on the speed and texture of the bass produced by the 3.7? I would imagine the lows shoudl already be very well controlled with the BC ref1000m and alum woofer of the 3.7.

If it does good to a big extend, then it certainly sounds very interesting as I am trying to find ways to better the dynamism, explosive transient and control on the lows of my Class A amp.


Cheers

The 3.7 already have very strong lows and I am quite accustomed to it.  Did the Silversmith improved the lows?...I didn't noticed.  The bass was still powerful and pronounced when needed to be.  The most significant improvement was the highs and mids, not so much with the lows....which may be the reason why I find it so transparent.

Whole dammn thing started with me seeking what you desires, transparacy and fast transients....that's when someone recommended Nordost Heimdall.  Seems like (IMHO) any cables that is flat, with silver content, at least on the outer skin of the conductor (ring effect) and uses air as a dielectric would be able to deliver......

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 19:04
Buying these high end cables are like buying another power amp. Be prepared! U should have kept ur ref500m n got the silversmith. Haha. Audio u jialat. Poison everyone here.


NO!!!

Upgrade to REF1000M MK2 and then apply Silversmith.

Hate your policy lah..DJQ!!!

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: stealth on July 14, 2010, 21:33

Whole dammn thing started with me seeking what you desires, transparacy and fast transients....that's when someone recommended Nordost Heimdall.  Seems like (IMHO) any cables that is flat, with silver content, at least on the outer skin of the conductor (ring effect) and uses air as a dielectric would be able to deliver......

(Audio)

Who is that someone? LOL...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 14, 2010, 21:37
Bros, just collected the REF1000M.  Now running in.....  BTW, I don't think I will change cables yet as my speaker cables were recently purchased, Kimber Monocle XL.....  So better keep for a while first., ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 14, 2010, 21:39
If anyone is interested in the REF500M, you can get it from Sammy this Friday after lunch. I traded in this pair and will only send it to him this Friday lunch time.  I think you may get a good price from him and trust me, it is less than 2 weeks old. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2010, 21:49
Haha my policy is one that lookouts for ones pocket yet getting the optimum performance out of whatever we can get out of our equipment. Thank goodness Audio is the only one go all out on critical items and not everything. Haha.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Quest on July 14, 2010, 21:50
Whole dammn thing started with me seeking what you desires, transparacy and fast transients....that's when someone recommended Nordost Heimdall.  Seems like (IMHO) any cables that is flat, with silver content, at least on the outer skin of the conductor (ring effect) and uses air as a dielectric would be able to deliver......
if u ask me its actually more on solid core cables.. but that is just my comment. :)
even the cheap anticables is fast and transparent though of cos in a different league in other regards.. but may not be as far as u might think.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2010, 21:58
Bros, just collected the REF1000M.  Now running in.....  BTW, I don't think I will change cables yet as my speaker cables were recently purchased, Kimber Monocle XL.....  So better keep for a while first., ;D

Well wait till you hear silversmith. Then u know.  Think best you dun listen to it. Haha dun listen to audio. P
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2010, 22:02
if u ask me its actually more on solid core cables.. but that is just my comment. :)
even the cheap anticables is fast and transparent though of cos in a different league in other regards.. but may not be as far as u might think.

Mm any chance you heard silversmith before?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 14, 2010, 22:15
Just looked up the price for a pr of these Silversmith cables…it’s more than what I paid for my used CS2.4 plus my brand new SCS4.  :o This upgraditis is getting expensive and this thread isn’t helping. Pure poison. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2010, 22:36
Just looked up the price for a pr of these Silversmith cables…it’s more than what I paid for my used CS2.4 plus my brand new SCS4.  :o This upgraditis is getting expensive and this thread isn’t helping. Pure poison. 

see and you all thread behind Audio... scary right??? hahaha
But seriously this cable is must get lor. only i thread further much further back with Nordost....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 22:55
Who is that someone? LOL...

Ok, If you need to know, that's Nick. Give credit where credit is due.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 14, 2010, 23:29
Just looked up the price for a pr of these Silversmith cables…it’s more than what I paid for my used CS2.4 plus my brand new SCS4.  :o This upgraditis is getting expensive and this thread isn’t helping. Pure poison. 

So why you think I was so happy to go to bed after settling for the Nordost? I meant the Sliversmith, in my humble opinion, looks ugly and felt strange upon touch. Subconsciously, I was curious but too lazy to try and wanted to avoid having to buy precious metal for wires.

But.....the sound man.................

(Audio)

OK, you have been warned! 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: ilovepanerai on July 14, 2010, 23:34
Bros, just collected the REF1000M.  Now running in.....  BTW, I don't think I will change cables yet as my speaker cables were recently purchased, Kimber Monocle XL.....  So better keep for a while first., ;D

Hi,

Any sonics improvement on the upgrade of Ref 500m to Ref1000m?
Should be a fair comparison since both models are new and not broken in when connected to your system?

Enjoy....

Cheers
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2010, 23:51
Hi,

Any sonics improvement on the upgrade of Ref 500m to Ref1000m?
Should be a fair comparison since both models are new and not broken in when connected to your system?

Enjoy....

Cheers

having hear both ICE power before on 2.4 its not as much as getting the silversmith. although Audio painstakingly insist the MkII sonics up by a fair bit. which i felt was not enough if you are on 2.4. on the 3.7 yes.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 15, 2010, 00:14
Sorry, I have never tried the REF500M.

Knowing me, I play my music loud and though the REF 500 was available, I never consider it fearing what clicquot99 is feeling now, the "what if I have bought the REF 1000M instead" feeling.

(Audio) 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 15, 2010, 00:36
The M upgrades IMHO improve on the standard modules used in other standard ICE powered amps. There's a quieter background and this allows more details to shine. Overall, there's improvement in the soundstage height and depth.

As for the REF500M vs REF1000M, the only basis of comparison I had was that my MCS1 center vs Audio's MCS1 center. When I was at his place, I always thought the sound from the MCS1 was more neutral. I was thus a but surprised when I found that my MCS1 had a warmer timbre. The only real difference is the amp. His was a REF1000M. Mine the REF500M.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 16, 2010, 07:36
looks like they discontinued CS1.6, can't find it on Thiel's website anymore. So CS1.7 is coming....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 16, 2010, 09:06
looks like they discontinued CS1.6, can't find it on Thiel's website anymore. So CS1.7 is coming....

Wah, the website completely revamped...

http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/promo_downloads.html

You are right.. CS1.6 is on the Discontinued List...

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 16, 2010, 10:30
Wah, the website completely revamped...

http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/promo_downloads.html

You are right.. CS1.6 is on the Discontinued List...



For sure they will replace it with a CS1.7 since the CS1.6 has been around for 7 years. Since the SCS4T is already propping up the floorstand range, chances are that the price for the CS1.7 may be in the US$2500-$3000 range. I wonder if Sammy has any more CS1.6 stocks.  ;D
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: WKL on July 16, 2010, 10:48
Sam still have the 1.6 stocks, as well as a pair of display set(at the shop window) that believe u can get it low low <$3k. Grab it b4 too late  ;)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 16, 2010, 10:50
SCS4T not in the website yet.

If the SCS4T is entry level, wonder if the 1.7 will move to 3 way?

Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jtat on July 16, 2010, 11:01
Sam still have the 1.6 stocks, as well as a pair of display set(at the shop window) that believe u can get it low low <$3k. Grab it b4 too late  ;)

Any idea how much does a pair of CS2.4 cost?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 16, 2010, 11:17
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=62242.1035

Price increase starts Jul 15th. We had a discussion on this a few pages back.. hence the rush to get the speakers at the old prices. But can check with Sound Decision to see if they can get the 2.4s at the older price.

SG list prices are typically 1.5x the US list price.



Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 17, 2010, 08:36
From Facebook
"THIEL Loudspeakers: Hello Sanjay! Yes the CS1.6 has been discontinued effective July 15. We do have a CS1.7 in development and are looking at a 1st quarter 2011 launch. We are finalizing the details for the SCS4T and hope to have this product shipping before the end of 2010."
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: bolts on July 17, 2010, 13:26
Jim thiel is no longer with us. Who designed the cs 1.7 speakers?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: DIYer Straits on July 17, 2010, 13:42
Jim thiel is no longer with us. Who designed the cs 1.7 speakers?

It seems that he had designed a whole range of speakers before he left. All they had to do was to apply them gradually over time. In the meanwhile, they will probably be getting a designer to emulate his design philosophy.
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 18, 2010, 09:27
Anyone heard the Jeff Rowland Capri paired with Bel cantos poweramps?  How does that sound compared with BCD Pre 3?
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: chewed on July 18, 2010, 10:13
Anyone heard the Jeff Rowland Capri paired with Bel cantos poweramps?  How does that sound compared with BCD Pre 3?

wow, you're getting poisoned real quick & fast.....
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 19, 2010, 11:29
Ya :(.... Hifi is an endless pursuit of equipment .... How I wish I have deep pockets to fund this endless journey..... 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 19, 2010, 11:50
Anyone heard the Jeff Rowland Capri paired with Bel cantos poweramps?  How does that sound compared with BCD Pre 3?


After what happened last friday, we recommend you try the Bel Canto CD2 with the Bel Canto DAC3.5.........

(Audio)

Found this article this morning that reinforce our impressions:-

http://www.belcantodesign.com/pdfs/bc_post_rmaf_09_web.pdf
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 19, 2010, 14:47
Hi Audio, I do not intend to change my CD player.  Presently using Esoteric.  Was only thinking of trying ICE module preamp and that is why, Jeff Rowland Capri came to my mind.  Just want to ask who had heard it paired with Bel Cantos out there so that at least I can evaluate the "risk" in purchasing one...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: Audio on July 19, 2010, 14:55
Hi Audio, I do not intend to change my CD player.  Presently using Esoteric.  Was only thinking of trying ICE module preamp and that is why, Jeff Rowland Capri came to my mind.  Just want to ask who had heard it paired with Bel Cantos out there so that at least I can evaluate the "risk" in purchasing one...

If you are serious enough, try to get a evaluation unit to try lor.  At this kind of pricing one defintely need to try it out before buying.

(Audio)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 19, 2010, 15:06
Yup.  I will try to loan a unit from Coherence tomorrow during the auditioning.  Hope they allow...
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: francis woo on July 19, 2010, 16:07
Yup.  I will try to loan a unit from Coherence tomorrow during the auditioning.  Hope they allow...

Jimi has loaned the Capri before and I am sure they will also oblige this time.  The Capri is a smooth operator and it partners well with high power amps..... :)
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 19, 2010, 16:11
Oh... That is good news ;D. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: jimi on July 19, 2010, 18:24
If you haven't met them, go and audition near the end of day, then ask at the end.

I didn't have any problems but its at their discretion of course.

I really like that preamp: wide soundstage, subtle warmth, very musical- just sounds great. I really like the fact that the details of the music are well preserved even with low volume listening.

If you go for it, let me know- they will discount more if 2 or more are buying-- I may well take the plunge..
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: clicquot99 on July 19, 2010, 20:24
Thanks.  I will let you know if I decide to purchase. 
Title: Re: Thiel Speakers Owners' Thread
Post by: richardyc on July 20, 2010, 00:13
Did anyone try a p