XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Audio => Topic started by: cn9601 on September 26, 2007, 11:20

Title: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on September 26, 2007, 11:20
Hi. Calling-calling good owners of Bowers & Wilkins speakers  ;)  Or critics  :P

KEC has informed that there is a new batch of Bowers & Wilkins 600-series coming in. Understand that this 600-series is for budget concerned people like me  ::)

Anyway, anybody has anything to say about Bowers & Wilkins speakers, because I dun read/see LOUD post or thread for this B&W stuffs. Is it another hype like Bose  :-\
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ew on September 26, 2007, 11:54
B&W 603 has recieved many good review and i almost wanted to get it the last time round.

i
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kzone on September 26, 2007, 12:36
I'm sure the price of the new 600 series is higher than the old... so if its not much lower than the 700 series, then u should audition both...
I had a choice bwetween an old matrix & the current 700 series and although they say their newer speakers always inherits the technology of previous higher end series... sound wise, I prefer the older matrix.... while technology can be passed on to lower end models, quality of parts & workmanship is too expensive to filter it down...

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 26, 2007, 13:22
hi i am a B&W owner myself. after i heard my frenz's 602 S3. i fell i love with it instantly. now running full B&W setup with 601 as front LCR60 center and 600 surrounds. too bad the old 600 series S3 discontinued. esle i would have gone for the 603.

yeah we know the newer models due to be released soon. so waiting patiently to audit them. suppose to be better than the older model as they have the FST cone surround technology for extra detail and resolution. Nautilus™ tube-loaded, aluminium dome tweeter. but still i prefer the looks of the 600series S3.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on September 26, 2007, 21:35
KEC couldnt bring in the latest 600-series, bcos local B&W distributor refuses to release it. The distributor wants to retail it  :-X  :-\  ???

Understand they will charge a high 2.8 times on the prevailing GBP retail price. Generally, stuff at KEC is ard 2.1 times on GBP.

So it appears that there's a commerical WW3  :-\  Guess just have to wait .........
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ahhian on September 26, 2007, 21:47
KEC couldnt bring in the latest 600-series, bcos local B&W distributor refuses to release it. The distributor wants to retail it  :-X  :-\  ???

Understand they will charge a high 2.8 times on the prevailing GBP retail price. Generally, stuff at KEC is ard 2.1 times on GBP.

So it appears that there's a commerical WW3  :-\  Guess just have to wait .........

Was told by KEC that the 600 series will arrive in Oct. Hope it comes in sooner as I would like to audition it with the Epos 12.2 :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: imbest on September 27, 2007, 00:54
lai lai lai, maituliao, just do your own MO, let them taste some "flavour" :D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ew on September 27, 2007, 01:21
lai lai lai, maituliao, just do your own MO, let them taste some "flavour" :D

fwah, can do MO for B&W?? where?? maybe u can enlighten us... thanks!!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SteinigerGE on September 27, 2007, 07:32
Is it another hype like Bose  :-\

No.  Unlike Bose, Bowers & Wilkins speakers are capable of reproducing the entire audible range of frequencies (although you still need a subwoofer for the really low frequencies) and with their aluminum and diamond tweeters, a lot of it you can't!  (The diamonds have been measured up to 74KHz).

The "hype" around B&W probably has more to do with the places disttributing them since they use GBP price which already includes a 20% GST.  If they were priced on U.S. prices (generally 15-25% less) then they would be considered very high value speakers.

I'm not sure about the 600s and 700s, but for the 800s, they are not supposed to be available on line (retailers are required to have a dedicated 800 Series listening room or area) and you are strongly discouraged from shopping around at retailers outside of your area.  I haerd a guy in the U.S. went to a retailer 100 miles from where he lived, and when they found out his address, they told him to go back to the retailer closer to home because they weren't allowed to do business with him.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: imbest on September 27, 2007, 09:31
fwah, can do MO for B&W?? where?? maybe u can enlighten us... thanks!!

I was just kidding lah, but seriously, if the price is really too high, can really consider importing it from other places, but I dun think the response will be good.

well, yet another well-"controlled" item......good for the brand image though. bad for our pocket....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: monstertruck on September 27, 2007, 09:46
erm.... how much do you think the 686 will cost ar?

anyone can enlighten me?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on September 27, 2007, 10:42
Was told by KEC that the 600 series will arrive in Oct. Hope it comes in sooner as I would like to audition it with the Epos 12.2 :)

Bro, was at KEC yesterday and had been told of the info. At the moment, 600 is not coming to KEC. Those pre-orders think may be given a choice to hold and wait or maybe 'refund' - cant remember wat KEC mumbling......simply we are sad  :(   Oredi plan to audition the set next week lei  >:(

If nobody goes to tat local distributor, then due to market forces, KEC may move in again for the 600 series. It is a matter of time  :-[
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on September 27, 2007, 10:48
and when they found out his address, they told him to go back to the retailer closer to home because they weren't allowed to do business with him.

Sounds like Microsoft  :o  Perceiving to be a 'protected' brand (Chey!). Tats y get the impression tat it is a hype.........but since some bros here are indicating a good spkr to reckon (UNLIKE Bose, of course). Now juz hope KEC can bring in the 600-series for me to audition  :'(
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Soundsogood on September 27, 2007, 17:49
I was at Monsoon testing and enjoying the sounds produced by 685 series speakers...Wonderful with much clarity. Comparable to CM1. Price for 685 is about $1k. Not sure to wait for KEC or to purchase at Monsoon. Any advice. Thanks

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Ratatouille on September 28, 2007, 01:05
I was at Monsoon testing and enjoying the sounds produced by 685 series speakers...Wonderful with much clarity. Comparable to CM1. Price for 685 is about $1k. Not sure to wait for KEC or to purchase at Monsoon. Any advice. Thanks



oh iszit?  SIAO AH 685 bookshelf spk abt $1k? then 683,684 floorstanders abt $2k $3k lor... tats way too much to pay for entry level spks. rumours has it they are now made in China.  can you verify this? shld bring down the cost mah. monsoon is always super exp!!!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on September 28, 2007, 07:45
rumours has it they are now made in China.

It is a FACT tat 600-series will be Made in China  :( :-X
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 28, 2007, 08:40
It is a FACT tat 600-series will be Made in China  :( :-X

whoa... heng ah... my discontinued models made in UK.  ;D so sad to hear this. by now those UK made will be more worthwhile.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on September 28, 2007, 09:52
Tis a reckoning, beaconing SAD-SAD truth  :'(   While I beg to know someone, anyone tat could 'openly declare' MIC AV stuffs are inferior, there is nothing to prevent the happening  :-X  As usual, if you have the MONEY, yes of course you could go buy tat high-end reference AV and it is VERY likely that the tag behind printed Made in England or Made in Japan.

Guess VERY likely is tat it sinks our heart knowing to pay $2000 stuff for MIC speaker  >:(

Now I recall KEC gives an indicative price of ard $2000-$2200 for B&W 685. I am interested to hear 683, but guess tat muz be in region of >$3000!!!  :'(

In fact, had auditioned MA stuffs as well and the spkrs are NICE oso, ard $1700 for a pair. BUT oso-oso MIC sigh.........
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 28, 2007, 10:42
whoa another crasy pricing. then again the nautilus dome tweet and FST mid range on the 700/800 series costs $12k $15k $20k???. so they regon $1k $2k to be very cheap already??? well looks like i wont need to buy floorstanders anytime soon. just get a Sub to compliment my 601s.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: JT on March 24, 2008, 11:31
Anyong using B&W PV1 subwoofer? Any idea where to buy and how much it costs now?

Thanks.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on March 24, 2008, 11:56
Monsoon no longer the B&W agent..the new agent call themselves the EXPErTS !

http://www.theexperts.com.sg/

they are having an Opening Sale on 28-29 March...

http://www.theexperts.com.sg/new_page_3.htm
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HoSaybo on March 24, 2008, 12:22
saw the shop when I pass by Lavender. Very near to Jay Audio and I the shop front is pretty big.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: venturer on March 24, 2008, 13:21
Let do some math.

UK product list price come with VAT @ 17.5% (correct me if I'm wrong)

Say 1000 GBP, if we take away the tax, original product price is (1000/1.175) = 851 GBP. Base on currency conversion rate at 2.75, 851 GBP = S$2340.

So the benchmark is 2.4 times GBP

B&W 685, listed at 375 GBP, benchmark is S$900

Interesting to see what is the markup of the new B&W local agent.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 24, 2008, 13:24
saw the shop when I pass by Lavender. Very near to Jay Audio and I the shop front is pretty big.

Hosayliao!  ;D Time to shop for a centre speaker to match my 805S.. Noticed that the "Experts" also distributes Arcam and Classe products.

I read that Jay Audio sells Rega HiFi components, does that still hold?

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 24, 2008, 13:28
Let do some math.

UK product list price come with VAT @ 17.5% (correct me if I'm wrong)

Say 1000 GBP, if we take away the tax, original product price is (1000/1.175) = 851 GBP. Base on currency conversion rate at 2.75, 851 GBP = S$2340.

So the benchmark is 2.4 times GBP

B&W 685, listed at 375 GBP, benchmark is S$900

Interesting to see what is the markup of the new B&W local agent.


I think we will be disappointed..  I was told by an "Experts" folk that HTM61 will list for S$1.3k. FYI, its UK list price is 395 GBP.. go figure. :(

Let's hope there will be good discounts during the opening sale.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on March 24, 2008, 14:23
I think we will be disappointed..  I was told by an "Experts" folk that HTM61 will list for S$1.3k. FYI, its UK list price is 395 GBP.. go figure. :(

Let's hope there will be good discounts during the opening sale.

Lets see wat "expertise "  they have over Monsoon ?

Maybe we can expect a Closing down sale soon ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: 2100 on March 24, 2008, 15:07
Classe / B&W in Singapore has long been viewed as premium high-end products what. Not the really super top strata, but still premium. So naturally would be sold high.  I used to be considering Classes and B&W but after homework comparing overseas prices, I realised i'd prefer more value for money. But you need to check out support services, I know Monsoon is good (spell home audition?). Those with money to spare but not much spare shopping/audition time can check it out, the equipment can be showpieces as well for guests coming to the house.   :)   
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on March 24, 2008, 15:13
 ;D Just saw 684 at KEC. Think 683 will arrive soon also. Available for audition liao..... ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 25, 2008, 21:56
they are having an Opening Sale on 28-29 March...

http://www.theexperts.com.sg/new_page_3.htm

I've just received a mailer abt the event from B&W. Looks like this is a genuine opening sale.. backside really itchy now.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Magnuz on March 25, 2008, 21:59
A pair of 684 was quoted locally as SGD $1750!  :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 25, 2008, 22:24
I've just received a mailer abt the event from B&W. Looks like this is a genuine opening sale.. backside really itchy now.  ;D

wow great. but i can only be there abt 6pm on 28 Mar after work. what time are you available HT102?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 25, 2008, 22:50
wow great. but i can only be there abt 6pm on 28 Mar after work. what time are you available HT102?

I can only find time near lunch time, will be there around noon.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on March 26, 2008, 09:42
Please-please post quotes for 683 / 684 and HTM61 / 62 for bros going on 28th   ;D Tks a million  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 26, 2008, 10:39
Please-please post quotes for 683 / 684 and HTM61 / 62 for bros going on 28th   ;D Tks a million  ;)

better still. i ask them can group buy anot? haha. although unlikely. ;) anyway will post when i get the infos.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 26, 2008, 19:52
Check out the prices.. the 11k GBP Signature Diamond lists here for S$70k (a pair).

Edit: Correction, 11k GBP price is meant for one speaker.

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/others/0,39037627,62039353-2,00.htm (http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/others/0,39037627,62039353-2,00.htm)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on March 26, 2008, 20:10
Please-please post quotes for 683 / 684 and HTM61 / 62 for bros going on 28th   ;D Tks a million  ;)

please also check for 685 / 686   ;D
on biz trip.. cannot go :( 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Magnuz on March 26, 2008, 20:52

Yes, do check the price at the promo!
I am also thinking of buying a 684.

Maybe, we can all buy together and get
a fairer price.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ajitbm on March 26, 2008, 22:00
please also check for 685 / 686   ;D
on biz trip.. cannot go :( 


Am also interested to know the price for 685's .... Already bought HTM62 3 weeks back from Mosoon
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: xmaz3 on March 27, 2008, 22:17
Yes, do check the price at the promo!
I am also thinking of buying a 684.

Maybe, we can all buy together and get
a fairer price.

Was at Experts today and was contemplating to get a 5.1B&W for my HT with the 684 as the front speakers and 686 as surround. Let me know if u wanna go down next 2 days during the sale.

Xmaz3 97557758
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: petetherock on March 27, 2008, 22:34
Glad the silly B/W spam was removed. Not the brightest means of advertising. Other dealers should take note.

I hope the prices are competitive, unlike Monsoon's

The 6xx series looks pretty promising.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SiriuslyCold on March 28, 2008, 08:09
I hope the prices are competitive, unlike Monsoon's

you think?

A pair of 684 was quoted locally as SGD $1750!  :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: blackburn on March 28, 2008, 09:04
i will be visiting the new showroom and will also take the opportunity to share with them what i think of their prices
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on March 28, 2008, 09:10
i will be visiting the new showroom and will also take the opportunity to share with them what i think of their prices


They are the experts ...so u are not allowed to question them ! ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SiriuslyCold on March 28, 2008, 11:40
if anyone is going, please find out the price of the Arcam Solo Mini ta :)

(http://stuff.tv/productimages/995500ebcmn.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on March 28, 2008, 14:56
Just came back.  Up to 25% off (20 + 5 from flyer cut-out).
685 $1200 list price .. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on March 28, 2008, 15:12
Does tat mean 685 after discount is $900  :o  ???

No quote for 683 / 684 / HTM61 / HTM62  ???

Just came back.  Up to 25% off (20 + 5 from flyer cut-out).
685 $1200 list price .. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 28, 2008, 15:28
I was probably the 1st paying customer today.. had a little trouble with the payment process.

As requested, the list prices for 1 speaker of 68X series are:
686 - $450
685 - $600
684 - $1000
683 - $1500

There is a 20% discount on 68x and 800 series (generally 10-20%, depending of product brand and model) during these 2 days of sale. A further 5% for existing B&W owners. 

Free delivery for those who bought 800 series.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on March 28, 2008, 15:35
Tks bro HT102.

Notice u specifically indicate 1 spkr. Sorie, it's awkard to me. Shldnt they sell 1 pair?

Wats the discount of 683 and 684? 20%?

Any package/bundle for Stand Spkr (683 / 684) with Ctr (HTM 61 / 62) anot?

possible to tell us wat u have bought  :D  ;D

Tks
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 28, 2008, 15:52
Tks bro HT102.

Notice u specifically indicate 1 spkr. Sorie, it's awkard to me. Shldnt they sell 1 pair?

Wats the discount of 683 and 684? 20%?

Any package/bundle for Stand Spkr (683 / 684) with Ctr (HTM 61 / 62) anot?

possible to tell us wat u have bought  :D  ;D

Tks


The 1-speaker pricing is useful for those who use odd number of speakers as centre or surround.

Same, 20+5%. Sorry did not pay much attention to 68X series..

Got myself a HTM4S. List price was $3k.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Magnuz on March 28, 2008, 20:49
I dropped by the place during my way back.

B&W 683 - $3k, before 20% discount
B&W 684 - $2k, before 20% discount
B&W 685 - $1.2k, before 20% discount
B&W 704 - $4.6k, before discount
B&W CM1 - $1700, discount???
B&W CM7 - $3k+, after discounts

Comparing 684 / 683 / Monitor Audio RS6
But I find RS6 to be very bright!

Any recommendations for the above?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: selwyntan on March 28, 2008, 22:04
I was there this evening and one thing to note is that they are using Canare 4s11 speaker cables which has no focus in music. Basically the sound is all over the place and not detailed enough. Not only that but they are also using Arcam dvd players for music auditioning!

Definitely not doing B&W speakers justice!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: synthesis on March 28, 2008, 22:20
Why didn't you ask them to change and see if the sound is still all over the place or not or becomes more detail? Which B&W you listen to?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tonedeft on March 28, 2008, 22:31
Bro HT102,
can i ask how much you paid for the HTM4S? They quoted me 4S as 6K and 3S as 10K before 20% discount. They demoed the 4S with a movie called drumline.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 28, 2008, 23:22
Bro HT102,
can i ask how much you paid for the HTM4S? They quoted me 4S as 6K and 3S as 10K before 20% discount. They demoed the 4S with a movie called drumline.

Simple, 25% disc off $3k, paid using credit card.. hoping to win a Audi R8.  ;D  :P

(http://www.audi.com.sg/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/product/r8/r8.Par.0195.Image.jpg)(http://www.audi.com.sg/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/product/r8/r8.Par.0077.Image.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 28, 2008, 23:32
Definitely not doing B&W speakers justice!

Agreed. The setup consists of pair of Diamond Signature and a bevy of Classe components.. I believe costs over $100k.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: selwyntan on March 28, 2008, 23:49
Why didn't you ask them to change and see if the sound is still all over the place or not or becomes more detail? Which B&W you listen to?

That is because they only had Canare cables and nothing else! (I have owned canare 4s11s and they're quite bad in terms of clarity). The sales guy said they are waiting for the branded cables to arrive so you don't really have the luxury of choice. I suggest you guys bring your own speaker cables to try out the speakers for a more accurate audition :)

I tried out the 685s, 686s, and all sounded a bit bright and lack in focus.

I was quite excited to try the 686s ($675 after 25% off) but not only does it look wimpy, the sound quality is quite disappointing especially in the bass dept. It was non-existent. The midrange and treble is not bad though but you will be better off with the 685s.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on March 28, 2008, 23:51
Why didn't you ask them to change and see if the sound is still all over the place or not or becomes more detail? Which B&W you listen to?

Remember they are the EXPERTS !
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tonedeft on March 29, 2008, 12:14
bro HT102- GOOD TASTE but try the GTR - will have spare change  8)

Funny everyone is in agreement the demos disappoint. i was looking at this speaker which cost about 3X mine and only sounds half as good - you might say pairing equipment has something to do with it but i'm thinking they are over-priced, and should only compete with others in a lower price bracket
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ajitbm on March 29, 2008, 21:24
I had called them on 26th and they said B&W 685's ar not in stock and will only be in a month or so later..... so I bought the 685's from KEC :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 30, 2008, 02:58
yes i was there early evening too. 685 and HTM61 not really a good match. maybe their setup all wrong. cant heard the L/R spks only the center. maybe the 684 or 683 would be better. price tag reasonable for floorstanders. but for 1st timers its a good set of entry level premium spks. not going to change my good old UK 600s. going to get a Sub instead.

wow bro HT102. going for full 800 series huh superb!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 30, 2008, 13:23
wow bro HT102. going for full 800 series huh superb!

My setup is pale in comparison to another forumer who bought 2 pairs of 805S during the sale.  ;)

I was told that the sale actually started on Thurs.. for the well-heeled to buy (800)D and Signature series. Anyone?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: clitang on March 30, 2008, 14:12
Can anyone let me the price of 802D or 803D and HTM3S or HTM4S?

Thinking of changing my HT setup if the price is right.

Thank you

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tonedeft on March 30, 2008, 21:37
have clarified with them on sat nite that i was earlier misquoted - 3S is 6K and 4S is 3K
also  i was told that signature are collectors' item - not audiophile collectors but life style collectors
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 30, 2008, 21:53
My setup is pale in comparison to another forumer who bought 2 pairs of 805S during the sale.  ;)

I was told that the sale actually started on Thurs.. for the well-heeled to buy (800)D and Signature series. Anyone?


yupz. no doubt about it. the 800 series are much better options. managed to listen to the Signatures in the room. oh man. i am going to hold all upgrades. not going to cont buying entry levels. :-X
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Magnuz on March 30, 2008, 22:19

Finally managed to get myseflf a Cherry 683 tonight.
The other guy who came in after me was also
impressed with the audition and bought the same
pair as me.

Was thinking of getting a 684, but after hearing both,
I was immediately sold on the 683! Now just waiting for
the delivery!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on April 01, 2008, 10:15
I'd too placed an order with them (The Experts) for my LCR :

Wenge 684 x2 and a
Wenge HTM62

Had originally aimed 685, but budget had a boost after wife said she would sponsored the HTM62 :)

Rushed back from business trip and managed to negotiate the additional 5% without printing the flyer... ;D

(thanks again for the bros' who had kindly posted the prices and also to the kind bro from Echoloft who had informed that they extended their promo on Sunday)


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 10:28
KEC couldnt bring in the latest 600-series, bcos local B&W distributor refuses to release it. The distributor wants to retail it  :-X  :-\  ???

Understand they will charge a high 2.8 times on the prevailing GBP retail price. Generally, stuff at KEC is ard 2.1 times on GBP.

So it appears that there's a commerical WW3  :-\  Guess just have to wait .........

Hi,
On behalf of the Distributor, I will like to clarify.
1) KEC buys from the distributor so how can the distributor have a higher price ratio.
2) KEC already buys 600 series from the distributor so how can it be a situation where the distributor refuse to release?
3) Price ratio compared comparing to international prices is unfair.  Fyi, B&O sells  the local products at many multiples the local price in Denmark (their home ground).  It is always a matter of brand owners wish to a bigger and stronger base in their home ground.  As such, the price in home ground is always lower.  You may like to check Singapore price compare to India, Thailand, Germany etc and consider if Singapore price is unfair. 
4) Retail price is a matter of cost, import cost, local operating cost.  Do you think the local price of rice, wheat, petrol, cars etc is fair?

We are open to discussion and clarifications.  Pls feel free to email us at ask@theexperts.com.sg

Regards
Jason Teong
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 10:37
I was there this evening and one thing to note is that they are using Canare 4s11 speaker cables which has no focus in music. Basically the sound is all over the place and not detailed enough. Not only that but they are also using Arcam dvd players for music auditioning!

Definitely not doing B&W speakers justice!

Hi,
On behalf of the distributor and B&W showroom, will like to clarify:

1) The reason why we use Canare is for a reason a) that our cable shipment is not in.  Pls check us out again in 1 month time with new setup b) B&W speakers work reasonably well with basic cables 3) we are not demo'ing music and it trying to demo the Movie setup.  While we understand it is not the best, we also note that there are many happy customers.

2) Arcam Solo series have established itself as a highly rated music all-in-one system.  The Solo Movie is an extension of the very successful Solo Music, with an added DVD chip.  Our setup was CM7 with Solo Movie 5.1.  This is targeted at people who wants a more lifestyle and modern setup with a reasonably good music and movie performance.

For customer who wants a better performance may come and audit our other mix, with better amps and players.  Kindly request such setup and we will be happy to prepare for you.

Thanks
jason teong
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 10:47
Check out the prices.. the 11k GBP Signature Diamond lists here for S$70k (a pair).

Edit: Correction, 11k GBP price is meant for one speaker.

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/others/0,39037627,62039353-2,00.htm (http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/others/0,39037627,62039353-2,00.htm)



Hi,
On behalf of the B&W showroom, we will like to clarify on the $70,000 price.

Kindly note that customer that purchase this unit at stated price will recieve a whole range or services, aftersales care and gifts valued at tens of thousands of dollars.

This is similar to buying a luxury car where you have a wide range of support, services that is intrinsic in the price and is appreciated by customer looking for such total packages.

Fyi, we have several customer coming back to audit this system for a 2nd round.

Thanks
jason


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SiriuslyCold on April 01, 2008, 10:50
Quote from: jason teong
...For customer who wants a better performance may come and audit our other mix, with better amps and players.  Kindly request such setup and we will be happy to prepare for you.

I wish experts would start using the word "audition" properly. You don't/can't audit equipment., you can audition them. Show a good example for newbie audiophiles to follow and perpetrate good practices - after all if people can't look up at experts, who can they follow?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 10:54
They are the experts ...so u are not allowed to question them ! ;D

Hi,
On behalf of the distributor, we will like to mention that we are Experts more in the sense of marketing.
We acknowledge that many of our clients have more in-depth and wider knowledge due to the keen interest in the hobby. 

In fact, we will like to invite some of our B&W customers who are hobbyists to our showroom for a "seminar".  Pls look out for details.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 10:57
have clarified with them on sat nite that i was earlier misquoted - 3S is 6K and 4S is 3K
also  i was told that signature are collectors' item - not audiophile collectors but life style collectors

On behalf of the distributor, we apologise for this.  We regret that our sales people are new and we have taken over the distributorship only 1st Feb and we have spent much time rectifying the acoustic of the conservation house and have mainly focused on our media showcase event.

We apologise for the poor service.
Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 10:59
I wish experts would start using the word "audition" properly. You don't/can't audit equipment., you can audition them. Show a good example for newbie audiophiles to follow and perpetrate good practices - after all if people can't look up at experts, who can they follow?

pardon for the ambiguity.  We are talking about B&W speakers here and electronics are secondary.  thanks
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 01, 2008, 11:02
Oh-yes----Oh-YES! I am oso WELL AWARE of BMW pricing  8)  Ooppps....B&W and BMW not related rite  ::)  ???

BTW, do note that there is AV Galaxy on WTS......IMHO, u ought to keep yr comment short & sharp. IMHO, u sound too defensive. IMHO, juz prove yr point by using such nicer words like 'Allow me to invite u to the Experts showroom, and we could clarify issues with nice audition of our full range of B&W products.'   U will definitely win one potential customer - ME, and I will respect yr PROFESSIONALISM as Experts !

[EDIT: BTW, I am a LOCALLY born Singaporean, and I know the price of most essential goods are on the rise. U98 is now >$2 per litre, before store and credit credit discount.]


4) Retail price is a matter of cost, import cost, local operating cost.  Do you think the local price of rice, wheat, petrol, cars etc is fair?

We are open to discussion and clarifications.  Pls feel free to email us at ask@theexperts.com.sg

Regards
Jason Teong
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on April 01, 2008, 11:09
Hi,
On behalf of the Distributor, I will like to clarify.
1) KEC buys from the distributor so how can the distributor have a higher price ratio.
2) KEC already buys 600 series from the distributor so how can it be a situation where the distributor refuse to release?

We are open to discussion and clarifications.  Pls feel free to email us at ask@theexperts.com.sg

Regards
Jason Teong

1) There are just too many examples of Sole Agent or distributor's selling prices is higher than the retailing outlets...don't kid yourseif !

2) KEC may have "ORDERED " (I use ORDERED ..not Buy ) from Distributor but there are many ways a distributor can do to make it difficult for them to take delivery...for example...stringent Credit terms  like Full Cash payments upfront n Bulk  Volumes requirements... but this is Between the distributors n the  other retailers like KEC ..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 11:17
Hi,
I will like to claify that credit terms is subjected to the reseller's financial strength and accessed by independent credit insurance company, and greatly depends on the reseller's  paid up capital and reported assets. 

Also to note that resellers like KEC collect deposit from consumers or 100% payment from bank when the customer opt for instalments.

You may also like to know that most audio resellers KEC is also an importer of brands they carry exclusively.They similarly dictate such terms.  This is how the industry works and is usually transparent to the consumer.

Also, we need to point out that all distributors do not set their own retail prices.  There are many influence (local & overseas), including dealer's acceptance to such arrangements. 

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 11:20
Oh-yes----Oh-YES! I am oso WELL AWARE of BMW pricing  8)  Ooppps....B&W and BMW not related rite  ::)  ???

BTW, do note that there is AV Galaxy on WTS......IMHO, u ought to keep yr comment short & sharp. IMHO, u sound too defensive. IMHO, juz prove yr point by using such nicer words like 'Allow me to invite u to the Experts showroom, and we could clarify issues with nice audition of our full range of B&W products.'   U will definitely win one potential customer - ME, and I will respect yr PROFESSIONALISM as Experts !

[EDIT: BTW, I am a LOCALLY born Singaporean, and I know the price of most essential goods are on the rise. U98 is now >$2 per litre, before store and credit credit discount.]



on hindsight, yes, I agree and apologise for being defensive.  Pls let me apologise for it.
Pls give us your feedback to ask@theexperts.com.sg.
We are very open to improving ourselves.
sincere apologies and regards.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SiriuslyCold on April 01, 2008, 11:21
pardon for the ambiguity.  We are talking about B&W speakers here and electronics are secondary.  thanks


ok, well you can't audit speakers either. you can audition speakers, and audit accounts.

Actually I did not mention electronics in my original post - I said equipment.


Congrats you're doing a bang up PR job so far

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on April 01, 2008, 11:51
It is a good thing to see posts coming directly from the GM of Experts. Jason, keep up the participation in this forum.  :)

I look forward to more events for fellow local hobbyists to appreciate new products from B&W, Arcam and Classe. Ahemmm.. not forgetting special sale events too. ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hotbird on April 01, 2008, 13:10
ok, well you can't audit speakers either. you can audition speakers, and audit accounts.
Actually I did not mention electronics in my original post - I said equipment.
Congrats you're doing a bang up PR job so far

Much agreed... the old adage "Silence is Golden"  is so appropriate here  ;D
The experts are digging a hole more larger and deeper as they speak.
Not only hurting their customers but also their dealers and reps  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 16:30
Hi,
I believe the age of resellers/importers being misunderstood is over.  I believe I am the first that reply openly on behalf of the company while others I know have chose to mask their identity for a while already.

While I acknowledge that I may not answer most appropriately (as I err as a human), I believe it is important that I voice out in the spirit of why this forum was established in the first place.  I accept the bad and good that comes with this forum and thank the people behind this platform.  And I apologize if I sound crude/harsh/defensive at times.

Thanks
jason
ps: yes, I am the GM but ultimately, I am just another representative of the company and still human afterall.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: petetherock on April 01, 2008, 17:08
Jason
Welcome to this forum
I think the best thing you can do is emulate the model of some of the better companies we often quote in this forum.

Good service, good prices are imperative and not posting tons of spam also helps :)

No matter what exchanges are posted here, the main thing that will ensure the survival of your company and B/W in Singapore is competitive pricing and a desire to make potential buyers happy.

There is a multitude of choice in Singapore and if the dealers are helpful they retain their faithful customers. Some shops have really bad attitudes and I won't visit them even though their prices are great. But neither will I get speakers which are not value for money either. Buying a brand name and one which costs so much more than another brand may not suit everyone.

Finally it is important to retain the momentum and excitement generated by your opening sales. It is sad that prices have returned to their highs, which is one reason why the previous agent was not very successful in penetrating the sales market and yet another did so well.


It is up to your marketing and sales acumen to succeed and for the sake of B/W fans here, I wish you success.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on April 01, 2008, 17:48
I think it will do you alot of good if you can go Study why the previous agent fail n not make the same mistakes !

And I can tell you why they fail :

at the introduction of this New B&W 6 series, I was  interested in the  speakers ...at that time KEC has'nt got it yet ...so I took an afternoon off  to the Monsoon  Showroom ..(it was a weekday ) When I arrived , there were 2 showrooms, and 2 staffs...mainly the Boss himself n his secretary , The speakers that I wanted  to listen to was in one room which was empty, the boss was in another room with a customer that looks like a RICH Indonesian,  I told the boss I wantedto listen to the speakers in the other room..he just merely say...you have to wait...I say why can't u just put in a CD for me  ?...he walk away into the other room n  closed the door, The secretary served me a lousy Nescafe...I waited impatiently for about 35 mins n LEFT ...swearing NEVER to enter this STUPID place again !

3 weeks later , I bought the speakers from KEC at a much lower Price !
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 18:04
Jason
Welcome to this forum
I think the best thing you can do is emulate the model of some of the better companies we often quote in this forum.

Good service, good prices are imperative and not posting tons of spam also helps :)

No matter what exchanges are posted here, the main thing that will ensure the survival of your company and B/W in Singapore is competitive pricing and a desire to make potential buyers happy.

There is a multitude of choice in Singapore and if the dealers are helpful they retain their faithful customers. Some shops have really bad attitudes and I won't visit them even though their prices are great. But neither will I get speakers which are not value for money either. Buying a brand name and one which costs so much more than another brand may not suit everyone.

Finally it is important to retain the momentum and excitement generated by your opening sales. It is sad that prices have returned to their highs, which is one reason why the previous agent was not very successful in penetrating the sales market and yet another did so well.


It is up to your marketing and sales acumen to succeed and for the sake of B/W fans here, I wish you success.

Hi,
Thanks for the comments.  We will review internally.
We apologise for the Spam as we thought that some of the members will be keen to know the sale event which is rare for B&W products.
Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Spunky on April 01, 2008, 18:05
1) There are just too many examples of Sole Agent or distributor's selling prices is higher than the retailing outlets...don't kid yourseif !

Actually, that used to be (I'm not sure of current market norm) the practice in the industry where I came from.  If they sell cheaper than the resellers, noone will wanna be their reseller and stock their products!! ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 18:09
I think it will do you alot of good if you can go Study why the previous agent fail n not make the same mistakes !

And I can tell you why they fail :

at the introduction of this New B&W 6 series, I was  interested in the  speakers ...at that time KEC has'nt got it yet ...so I took an afternoon off  to the Monsoon  Showroom ..(it was a weekday ) When I arrived , there were 2 showrooms, and 2 staffs...mainly the Boss himself n his secretary , The speakers that I wanted  to listen to was in one room which was empty, the boss was in another room with a customer that looks like a RICH Indonesian,  I told the boss I wantedto listen to the speakers in the other room..he just merely say...you have to wait...I say why can't u just put in a CD for me  ?...he walk away into the other room n  closed the door, The secretary served me a lousy Nescafe...I waited impatiently for about 35 mins n LEFT ...swearing NEVER to enter this STUPID place again !

3 weeks later , I bought the speakers from KEC at a much lower Price !

Hi,
on behalf of B&W, I apologise on behalf of the last distributor.  We hope that you will not encounter such things at the new B&W showroom.  If you have problems, pls email me at ask@theexperts.com.sg

Regards
jason


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 01, 2008, 18:56
Actually, that used to be (I'm not sure of current market norm) the practice in the industry where I came from.  If they sell cheaper than the resellers, noone will wanna be their reseller and stock their products!! ;)

Hi,
I am glade someone notice this "norm".  While we, as distributor, is tied to the fixed retail price and unable to declare discount openly, our dealers can openly quote discounts.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SteinigerGE on April 01, 2008, 22:45
Jason,

I bought B&Ws from the previous distributor, but refused to be "served" by anyone else on their team except a guy named Rick.  When I was 20, a pair of 805 Silver Signatures are what made me want to get serious about hifi.  When at 32 I could finally afford them, I went to Monsoon and bought 2x804S, 2x805S, 2xHTM4S and 2xASW650, an Arcam AVP700, P1000, and a CD192. 
Now here is why I bring this up - the pathetic pandering, butt kissing, and general lack of A/V knowledge of the rest of the Monsoon staff left such a bitter taste in my mouth I almost never returned.  Also, in the U.S., most B&W distributors let you trade your existing B&Ws in at full price to upgrade to another model (assuming they haven't been abused and they are less than a year old).  Rick's boss would only offer me only 40% when I decided I wanted to go to 803S and an HTM3S.  The taste in my mouth got a little more bitter...  Please do Bowers and Wilkins a favour and present the brand not only as a Brand Name, but also as a serious audio manufacturer.
Through personal connections, I was able to swap my 804S and HTM4S to a guy moving to a smaller place for his 803S and HTM3S and some top up cash because the distributor was unwilling to see me as a long term customer.
Late last year I was ready to upgrade to 802Ds, unfortunately, I was unable to get them here in Singapore, so I traded my 803S to Rick who gave me a very good trade-in toward the Verity L and R speakers I have now.  I still use the HTM3S, 805S, and subs, but since the B&W experience in Singapore hasn’t been about long term customer relationships in the past, I usually look outside the Bower and Wilkins stable, not because the product is bad, but rather because the dealer service hasn’t been up to snuff despite being charged a substantial premium.  Here’s hoping the Experts know the difference between an audit and audition....   
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tonedeft on April 01, 2008, 23:37
bro Steiniger,
Can you descirbe how you deploy 2xHTM4S?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on April 02, 2008, 00:47
I  in my opinion  I think the New B&W agent should have chosen a more Humble  name rather than the  " EXPERTS ! "

Seriously...it comes across as arrogant... n naturally High expectations  follows ...particularly the knowledge of the staffs you employ !

Can't imagine a Company by a Name call Experts but hire staffs like Best Denki or HV ...who are HIFI Ignorant but still want to throw smoke n act smart  trying to bluff their way through ! I still remember an idiot trying to tell me that the 100Hz CRT TV is a Digital High Def TV..... :-[

I know hiring good people is oredi very tough...hiring people with good hifi knowledge is even tougher  n scarce.....Your Company name unfortunately gave yourself added pressure to attain EXPERT status !

All the best in your New business venture  anyway !

B&W I believe has been perceived as a GOOD product thru successful marketing n Advertising (Not Singapore )...it's now up to you to  fully utilise this reputation  to make your Business profitable when all your predecessors have FAILED !
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 02, 2008, 01:14
Being a B&W owner, i just like to share my own buying experience. i too bought my discontinued 600series from a retail shop which was giving me a much better price than the previous distributer 1 year ago. it was just late 2007 i discovered the older 600series will be replaced with the newer 600 ones branishing tweets from 800s and FST cones from 800s. in a desperate attempt i went to all retailers to try get the 603 S3 floorstander. none was able to give me an order. i tought my last hope monsoon will be able to secure me a set knowing that i will need to pay more for it. an answer of no more stock available was given. knowing that they still got alot of backorders of the previous set. no gesture was made to try source from B&W itself. maybe i was wearing T-shirt/bermudas and slippers.

Anyway i had another chance to own a 2nd hand 603 which i had to pass due to personal reasons even though the price was tempting. now that the newer 600s are here, the price tag was double comparing the 601 with 685. i tought assembled in china was supposed to reduce its price tag. then again with the 800s technologies brought over to 600 was this why it was priced higher? not here to start another price issue and i do know B&W do make premium speakers. To have a significant number of B&W owners, i felt more should be done to retain existing owners. last i still havent got my free gift from B&W when i registered warranty for my 600series a yr ago. can the experts help?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hotbird on April 02, 2008, 01:32
Hi,
on behalf of B&W, I apologise on behalf of the last distributor.  We hope that you will not encounter such things at the new B&W showroom.  If you have problems, pls email me at ask@theexperts.com.sg
Regards
jason

Quite interesting to note that from a stock report of the listed Enzer (holding company of last distributor) who then the executive officer in charge of  consumer electronics was....

http://www.wallstraits.com/IntelliSort/stockreport.php?code=545

Reminds me of the movie Total Recall... if you catch what I mean  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: MC_Hammer on April 02, 2008, 03:03
Quite interesting to note that from a stock report of the listed Enzer (holding company of last distributor) who then the executive officer in charge of  consumer electronics was....

http://www.wallstraits.com/IntelliSort/stockreport.php?code=545

Reminds me of the movie Total Recall... if you catch what I mean  ;D

Enzer Corp Limited :

Officers
Jason Teong Kian Seng: Consumer Electronics......SAME JASON TEONG : BOSS of EXPERTS ? ;D
Victor Yap Weng Keong: Acoustics Retail
Ms. Lai Soon Lin: Corp Affairs
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: petetherock on April 02, 2008, 06:55
Whew.. I think the new B/W players have their hands full...

On one hand, they represent one of the finest feats of marketing, and a product range which goes all the way from a 1.2k IPod dock to some serious speakers costing more than a car at the other end of the scale.

Given their rather reticent pricing, there is an air of premium quality, which is a clever marketing thing, since discounts are hard to come by (when I was in China, the same pricing applied too), there comes a perception of quality. Plus the fact that they win lots of awards in certain magazines (see the ones where the rear pages are plasters with their ads...) soon, there is an air of desirability about them.

And why not? Sell less, but charge more, and no need to compete with other brands which present more value for $$. Which is why although I have been tempted by their styling and even the sound, have been too cheapo and poor to try out their stuff. The closest was in Australia where the 3xx series was on runout...

Anway kudos to the new (old/new) owners, who have dared to venture into a local forum, and seem ready to listen. I think the new staff, Jason and Jason (there are 2) are polite and keen to help, so lets give them a chance.

I had a chance to try out the CM series before (in another place) and I found the sound pretty nice, with good imaging and soundstage, plus the CM 7 gave very nice bass.

The catch of course was the RSP here: 3.8k, which brings it into competition with my fav under 5k speakers the Spendor S6e at 3.5k

Other choices at such a budget are quite plentiful, such as the Totems, the Dynaudio 72SE (really nice too), so I hope B/W SG avoids the Volkswagen syndrome here, where the Golf is priced so much more than the typical Toyota / Honda to keep an impression of a premium automobile whereas in reality, they cost less than the Toyotas in Germany. And Germans treat them like the Corollas anyway.

As for the new 6XX, they come to SG with a headstart, fantastic reviews and lots of good publicity and many people will buy based on that alone without proper auditioning. So they should fly off the shelves easily. But if potential owners have a chance to demo them next to rivals of a similar nature, they may feel there are alternatives of a higher range at the same price.
Eg a rival to the 685 / 684 might be the Dynaudio 42 or the ALR Jordans, both superb stuff.

Therefore I really hope we get the same competitive pricing offered by the company here which is a model of service, friendship and price that Expert Co, will do well to emulate.

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SteinigerGE on April 02, 2008, 08:11
bro Steiniger,
Can you descirbe how you deploy 2xHTM4S?

I put one on either side of my head but realized they still didn't match the 804S that well, so I upgraded to one HTM3S  ;)

You got me that was a typo, I only had one HTM4S - sorry!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: 2100 on April 02, 2008, 09:22
I am sure the new B&W distributor theexperts (big company i suppose, at least bigger than the Adelphi outfits!) would do very well if the service standard is the same as some of the better ones like Norman Audio, Aural Design, Sound Decisions. No horse run.  If its the same as the bad/pushy ones, opps.

Theexperts are new, or already lao jiaos in the audio/HT fraternity changing hands nia? If old birds then no need to say too much lar I guess .    :)  Just a fig of speech, "You don't need to teach your father how to xxxx".

Wonder what happened to the SVS deal with Monsoon.   :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 02, 2008, 10:03
Jason,

I bought B&Ws from the previous distributor, but refused to be "served" by anyone else on their team except a guy named Rick.  When I was 20, a pair of 805 Silver Signatures are what made me want to get serious about hifi.  When at 32 I could finally afford them, I went to Monsoon and bought 2x804S, 2x805S, 2xHTM4S and 2xASW650, an Arcam AVP700, P1000, and a CD192. 
Now here is why I bring this up - the pathetic pandering, butt kissing, and general lack of A/V knowledge of the rest of the Monsoon staff left such a bitter taste in my mouth I almost never returned.  Also, in the U.S., most B&W distributors let you trade your existing B&Ws in at full price to upgrade to another model (assuming they haven't been abused and they are less than a year old).  Rick's boss would only offer me only 40% when I decided I wanted to go to 803S and an HTM3S.  The taste in my mouth got a little more bitter...  Please do Bowers and Wilkins a favour and present the brand not only as a Brand Name, but also as a serious audio manufacturer.
Through personal connections, I was able to swap my 804S and HTM4S to a guy moving to a smaller place for his 803S and HTM3S and some top up cash because the distributor was unwilling to see me as a long term customer.
Late last year I was ready to upgrade to 802Ds, unfortunately, I was unable to get them here in Singapore, so I traded my 803S to Rick who gave me a very good trade-in toward the Verity L and R speakers I have now.  I still use the HTM3S, 805S, and subs, but since the B&W experience in Singapore hasn’t been about long term customer relationships in the past, I usually look outside the Bower and Wilkins stable, not because the product is bad, but rather because the dealer service hasn’t been up to snuff despite being charged a substantial premium.  Here’s hoping the Experts know the difference between an audit and audition....   


Hi,
On the issue of trade in, I believe it is highly subjective to:
1) the condition of the speakers
2) the value of the buy-in
3) the model traded in.

The fundamental mechanics works like trading in a 2nd hand car.  Ultimately, the value greatly depends on the re-saleability of the item.

I will not comment on US policy but it is clear that US and UK resellers do receive preferential trading terms due to the size of the market.  Regrettably, our market size is small and you can hardly "even-out" such costs.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 02, 2008, 10:11
I  in my opinion  I think the New B&W agent should have chosen a more Humble  name rather than the  " EXPERTS ! "

Seriously...it comes across as arrogant... n naturally High expectations  follows ...particularly the knowledge of the staffs you employ !

Can't imagine a Company by a Name call Experts but hire staffs like Best Denki or HV ...who are HIFI Ignorant but still want to throw smoke n act smart  trying to bluff their way through ! I still remember an idiot trying to tell me that the 100Hz CRT TV is a Digital High Def TV..... :-[

I know hiring good people is oredi very tough...hiring people with good hifi knowledge is even tougher  n scarce.....Your Company name unfortunately gave yourself added pressure to attain EXPERT status !

All the best in your New business venture  anyway !

B&W I believe has been perceived as a GOOD product thru successful marketing n Advertising (Not Singapore )...it's now up to you to  fully utilise this reputation  to make your Business profitable when all your predecessors have FAILED !

Hi,
Thanks for your feedback on the corporate name.  We have debated this internally and debated this with our contracted PR company on the corporate "branding".
We note it's controversial and subject us to more pressures.  This we believe works 2 ways and we prefer to see it as motivational and will hope that it drives us to better ourselves.
We regret any sense of arrogance but we believe our staff while not being the best in the market, does have reasonably good attitude, many of which is displayed during the opening sale.
As mentioned before, we are open to criticism and will not hide from them.  We seek to improve with each passing comment.  If you drop by our shop, pls give us your feedback and we will be happy to learn from you.  Ultimately, everyone have their own "expertise" and the important thing is to learn from each other.

We know we are not the top experts in the field of audio but we are good in our own respective field.  As indicated in our website, we are an amalgamation of various "experts" and collectively, we hope to deliver a more wholesome positioning to B&W.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 02, 2008, 10:16
Being a B&W owner, i just like to share my own buying experience. i too bought my discontinued 600series from a retail shop which was giving me a much better price than the previous distributer 1 year ago. it was just late 2007 i discovered the older 600series will be replaced with the newer 600 ones branishing tweets from 800s and FST cones from 800s. in a desperate attempt i went to all retailers to try get the 603 S3 floorstander. none was able to give me an order. i tought my last hope monsoon will be able to secure me a set knowing that i will need to pay more for it. an answer of no more stock available was given. knowing that they still got alot of backorders of the previous set. no gesture was made to try source from B&W itself. maybe i was wearing T-shirt/bermudas and slippers.

Anyway i had another chance to own a 2nd hand 603 which i had to pass due to personal reasons even though the price was tempting. now that the newer 600s are here, the price tag was double comparing the 601 with 685. i tought assembled in china was supposed to reduce its price tag. then again with the 800s technologies brought over to 600 was this why it was priced higher? not here to start another price issue and i do know B&W do make premium speakers. To have a significant number of B&W owners, i felt more should be done to retain existing owners. last i still havent got my free gift from B&W when i registered warranty for my 600series a yr ago. can the experts help?

Hi,
Pls advise what gift you have registered for.  I can work on this.  pls email to ask@theexperts.com.sg

And to all forum members, if you are looking for any old products, pls let us know and we will check with B&W.  However, pls kindly understand that B&W is rapidly "upgrading" their lines and implementing more "cascaded" technologies from the higher lines (which naturally bring up the cost).  While the new 4th generation speakers are made in China, regretably, this is mainly help in assembly cost as many key components (especially modules) are still sourced from UK/US and outside of China.  Ultimately, China is China and some better components are not available.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on April 02, 2008, 10:26
I would just like to comment on the day I'd went in to place my order of 684's and HTM62, the staff were generally friendly and helpful.

They had 3 person in the showroom that day, with one new guy giving out basic information (granted he had to check with his seniors a couple of times)  and there was Jessie and Henry, whom was dealing the transaction and technical side of things respectively.

THE GOOD
I was happy and pleased with the service and patience particularly from Henry. (Jessie at that time was serving other customers).  I had hoped to get the speakers on that day and eventhough their inventory was almost completely out and had backorders, Henry still went into their store and reconfirm that they still had a pair of 685's (as I was comtempalating between 685's and 684's)

On the occasion that I was served by Jessie, he advised on which type of sub for my room and took me to the HT setup and let me audition with and without the sub on, until my satisfaction (I had brought my wife and was actually doing alot of explaining to her)

When Henry was back I told him my budget constraints and the fact that B&W subs are priced more than leading brands like SVS (loosely based on $ vs size of drivers), he acknowledges and tried his best to explain the differences (materials used).  He professionally advised me to listen to my floorstanders first (by then i had decided on the 684's) then if i wish to, go back and get a sub from them, and did not try to shove their products in my face.

OPPORTUNITIES (For Improvement)
Eventhough they had pairs of 683's , 684's and 685's placed in the showroom, they had difficulties in hooking up the speakers for audition.  Simply stating that they had only other speakers connected to their current system. I remember when at Adelphi, staffs would just whisk away speakers from the shelves and hook it up when asked.  It is as if their "lifestyle" setup rooms can't be rearranged :P

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 02, 2008, 10:28
I am sure the new B&W distributor theexperts (big company i suppose, at least bigger than the Adelphi outfits!) would do very well if the service standard is the same as some of the better ones like Norman Audio, Aural Design, Sound Decisions. No horse run.  If its the same as the bad/pushy ones, opps.

Theexperts are new, or already lao jiaos in the audio/HT fraternity changing hands nia? If old birds then no need to say too much lar I guess .    :)  Just a fig of speech, "You don't need to teach your father how to xxxx".

Wonder what happened to the SVS deal with Monsoon.   :)

Hi,
I will not comment about our service level but humbly note that we still have much room for improvements, as we have some bugs in our accounting server and logistics setup.  I request members "audit" our service in 1 months time and provide us your feedback to ask@theexperts.com.sg or via this discussion platform.


Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 02, 2008, 10:36
I would just like to comment on the day I'd went in to place my order of 684's and HTM62, the staff were generally friendly and helpful.

They had 3 person in the showroom that day, with one new guy giving out basic information (granted he had to check with his seniors a couple of times)  and there was Jessie and Henry, whom was dealing the transaction and technical side of things respectively.

THE GOOD
I was happy and pleased with the service and patience particularly from Henry. (Jessie at that time was serving other customers).  I had hoped to get the speakers on that day and eventhough their inventory was almost completely out and had backorders, Henry still went into their store and reconfirm that they still had a pair of 685's (as I was comtempalating between 685's and 684's)

On the occasion that I was served by Jessie, he advised on which type of sub for my room and took me to the HT setup and let me audition with and without the sub on, until my satisfaction (I had brought my wife and was actually doing alot of explaining to her)

When Henry was back I told him my budget constraints and the fact that B&W subs are priced more than leading brands like SVS (loosely based on $ vs size of drivers), he acknowledges and tried his best to explain the differences (materials used).  He professionally advised me to listen to my floorstanders first (by then i had decided on the 684's) then if i wish to, go back and get a sub from them, and did not try to shove their products in my face.

OPPORTUNITIES (For Improvement)
Eventhough they had pairs of 683's , 684's and 685's placed in the showroom, they had difficulties in hooking up the speakers for audition.  Simply stating that they had only other speakers connected to their current system. I remember when at Adelphi, staffs would just whisk away speakers from the shelves and hook it up when asked.  It is as if their "lifestyle" setup rooms can't be rearranged :P


Hi,
Thanks for the feedback.
On your last para on the inability to demo, I will like to clarify that we dissuade demo of "un-hooked" systems during the 3 day sale event as we have 300 people walking in and out during the sale and it makes it difficult for us to service the customers properly.
To add, for customer who insist on a demo, we have arranged later hours to demo during the sale period.  In fact, we did a few demo after 8pm (sale event close at 8pm) and one case, we stayed until 10pm with the customer who wanted to try 683 vs 684 vs CM7 vs 685.  We carried each item in from the hall and hooked up and allowed the customer to spend time with the system.

We apologise that our sales people are unclear on this.

After sale event, if you wish to see particular setup, kindly give us a ring to arrange a time.  As added information, we do not operate on Sunday but we do allow demo by appointment on Sunday and any other time out of our operational hours. 

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SiriuslyCold on April 02, 2008, 11:01
one time you use the word audit properly and it has to be in quotation marks? ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on April 02, 2008, 11:09
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback.

We apologise that our sales people are unclear on this.

Thanks
jason

Jason, thank you for clarifying.  Please take our "complaints/feedback" as positive ones for improvement.  I would like to state that there was no hint of demo possiblity (at later hours/other dates) and it was not explained to me of tihs policy during the opening sale.  It is actually very strange to have a opening sale and yet not letting potential customers to audition.  You would be narrowing the demographic of your customer base as you are constricting to those customers who had actually auditioned before at other stores/retailers (for those that were not on display). 

For "sale events" in future, the above model maybe acceptable as interested parties (most of them I assume) would / could have audition beforehand.

May I suggest in future you would come up with a flyer (on your website perhaps) to state the days and equipment to be hooked up so that a range of your products could be audtion by interested parties ? Not everyone can afford your signature diamond series ;)

Granted the above are just suggestions.  I would not like to teach you how to do your job :)
It's great having a rep like yourself in this forum to hear(read) and answer our feedback.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 02, 2008, 11:39
Jason, thumbs up for your recent candid presentation and response (as compared to your early post  :-\ ). Sincerely, I do hope you and your staffs (ie. Experts Pte Ltd)  will build upon this, and not just 'for show' now in this forum.

IMO, audiophiles (not me, still learning from XP bros here  ;D ) know wat what they want. And I am sure most of us will not mind paying tat 'xtra' bit for good, sincere service. K** is NOT necessary the cheaper place for me indulge in my AV/HiFi stuffs. But I like their service and usually put me at ease (no stress audition).

Given yr direct connection with B&W (Classe & Arcam), audiophiles will look up to you for more 'undocumented' info, which is the area that you could enlighten us and clarify issue - your niche Professional Area and being the Domain Expert. Of coz, your value-added service will come in handy when you could help to resolve issue(s) direct with the manufacturers (eg. your assistance to DJQ).

I am impressed with Onkyo UK, where the Onkyo rep actively responses in the AVSforum to clarify/discuss issues relating to their Onkyo products. No selling, just sincere aftersales support.

I hope by your leadership, you could build up a corporate culture that expresses your domain knowledge on your product with professionalism. It will come a long way, and who knows you could even buy over more customers  ;)

Keep it up.......let us know when is the next 20% (or 25%) sales event  ;D  8)  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: petetherock on April 02, 2008, 11:45
Jason, just remember, when people are willing to voice their opinions, it means they have hope for you to excel :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 02, 2008, 14:57
Enzer Corp Limited :

Officers
Jason Teong Kian Seng: Consumer Electronics......SAME JASON TEONG : BOSS of EXPERTS ? ;D
Victor Yap Weng Keong: Acoustics Retail
Ms. Lai Soon Lin: Corp Affairs


Hi,
To clarify, The Experts Group Pte Ltd have no association or affliation with Enzer (the ex-distributor) or Monsoon (owned by Enzer).  We are totally seperate and we understand some customers are confused.

The only "link" we have is that I used to work in Enzer, overseeing multiple divisions.  This "link" no longer exist.  Now, I work for The Experts Group.

Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: xpert2 on April 02, 2008, 18:32
Hi,
on behalf of B&W, I apologise on behalf of the last distributor.  We hope that you will not encounter such things at the new B&W showroom.  If you have problems, pls email me at ask@theexperts.com.sg

Regards
jason

Weren't you the big guy in charge of B&W in the last distributor? Then why apologise on behalf of "the last distributor" (i.e. yourself & your people)? Doesn't make any sense, and seems pretty condescending!  ???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Magnuz on April 02, 2008, 23:29

I think this thread is getting too long!

I am sure Jason is trying to set out a
whole new image for B&W in Singapore.
Its good to have feedbacks and suggestions
from past owners and shoppers alike.

So the only thing for us to do now is to
march on while learning from our past mistakes
while trying to make improvements along
the way. I hope we will all have a pleasent
time ahead of us with B&W.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 03, 2008, 08:21
yupz. just let go & enjoy. lets start a list of B&W owners using the different type of B&Ws speakers instead. ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on April 03, 2008, 09:59
I think this thread is getting too long!

I am sure Jason is trying to set out a
whole new image for B&W in Singapore.
Its good to have feedbacks and suggestions
from past owners and shoppers alike.

So the only thing for us to do now is to
march on while learning from our past mistakes
while trying to make improvements along
the way. I hope we will all have a pleasent
time ahead of us with B&W.

Well said.

Having Jason (from Experts) as a helpful and active member of this forum is already a boon to existing B&W speakers owners as well as potential buyers. Frankly, I am very happy with the service I have experienced so far and am planning to add an Arcam CD player to my AV deck soon.

Let's move on. Cheers.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on April 03, 2008, 10:01
yupz. just let go & enjoy. lets start a list of B&W owners using the different type of B&Ws speakers instead. ;)

Okie, let me start the ball rolling..

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Magnuz on April 03, 2008, 10:45

New to B&W!  ;D

AV - Onkyo 805
Amp - (contemplating Rotel 1075)
Front - Pair of Cherry 683s (awaiting delivery)

50% HT / 50% Music
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on April 03, 2008, 11:00
Continue to Roll the ball :P

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 03, 2008, 11:53
Weren't you the big guy in charge of B&W in the last distributor? Then why apologise on behalf of "the last distributor" (i.e. yourself & your people)? Doesn't make any sense, and seems pretty condescending!  ???

Hi,
To clarify, the last distributor is a listed company.  I am just "one of the guys" there.  Decision making in a  listed company is much more complex and my responsibility in Enzer span more then just B&W distribution.  And yes, if I have known about the issue while I was with Enzer, I would have apologised on behalf of Enzer/Monsoon then. 

Pls pardon this past management oversight.

And one important thing is that we learnt from our mistake and as you can see at the new showroom, our direction, image, staff (and hopefully service) is totally different. 

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 03, 2008, 13:29
Continue Rolling the ball :P

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lhraiders on April 03, 2008, 15:43
Hi,

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery


Thanks ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: TYF on April 03, 2008, 18:20
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Skyz on April 04, 2008, 00:23
sorry to further question Jason..

1) I dropped by to enquire about the M1 speakers... I understood M1 is M1, and is generic regardless of MT10/20/30.
How come your salesman says that then M1 speakers for MT10 is different from MT20/30?
Am I missing something?

2) I was considering getting a pair of M1 to Supplement my set, but i was surprised to note that the M1 is selling at S$450, while i came across it in Osaka at(after conversion (S$330) same thing, but JAPAN is cheaper?

3)Now considering the mirage omnisat...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jlcsg on April 04, 2008, 00:48
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ajitbm on April 04, 2008, 22:06
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8)Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 04, 2008, 23:18
sorry to further question Jason..

1) I dropped by to enquire about the M1 speakers... I understood M1 is M1, and is generic regardless of MT10/20/30.
How come your salesman says that then M1 speakers for MT10 is different from MT20/30?
Am I missing something?

2) I was considering getting a pair of M1 to Supplement my set, but i was surprised to note that the M1 is selling at S$450, while i came across it in Osaka at(after conversion (S$330) same thing, but JAPAN is cheaper?

3)Now considering the mirage omnisat...

Hi,
on point 1 - I believe there is a miscommunication.   We apologise for being unclear.  The difference in MT10/20/30 is in the subwoofers while M1 is standard.

on point 2 - You are correct in the $450 price tag for M1.  1) this is the open list price.  2) we will like to clarify that if you purchase the MT10/20/30 as a set, you get a package discount (ie if you purchase Mt30, you pay $4940 instead of $450x5+$3300).  so the overall cost is lower before discounts when sold as a package. 

I cannot verify japan cost but usually Japan prices are highest in Asia unless there is a clearance/store closure sale. 

Yes, you can purchase from Osaka and B&W products does have international warranty, this only covers parts and direct repairman cost.  We will charge a service/admin /logistic fee for handling products not sold by us.  For our own customers, we absorb this service fees.  Also, our clients have priority in terms of repairs and parts allocations.

on Point 3 - I believe mirage omnisat have its own strenght while M1 have its own.  Ultimately, I believe it voice down to each customer's choice of brand prestige, design, preference in sound, and budget.  Regret I cannot comment on the comparison.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 04, 2008, 23:21
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)

Hi all who are pending delivery,
We regret that HK have a holiday and we are unable to get confirmation of delivery.  As promised, we are trying to fulfill all orders within the 90 days leadtime
Pls pardon our inability and unwillingness to commit to earlier delivery leadtime.  Our sales guy will continue to keep all posted on delivery.
Sincere apologises
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Nonten on April 04, 2008, 23:42
Hi, 2 x 685. cheers ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SteinigerGE on April 06, 2008, 10:23

Yes, you can purchase from Osaka and B&W products does have international warranty, this only covers parts and direct repairman cost.  We will charge a service/admin /logistic fee for handling products not sold by us.  For our own customers, we absorb this service fees.  Also, our clients have priority in terms of repairs and parts allocations.


Jason,

I'm not too worried, because B&W builds speakers well, but regarding fees for products not sold by you, what is you policy for those of us who bought B&W speakers from Monsoon?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 09, 2008, 10:15
Hi,
Sorry for the late reply as it seems that this thread was locked and I have written to the moderator to unlock this thread.

To further explain, goods sold by us (to dealers or end-consumer) after 1st Feb 2008 (our distributorship appointment date) will have no service charge.  Goods that are not purchased from us, we will need to verify the origin which will slow down repairs plus there will be an admin/service/logistics fee.

To instead use KEC as example, KEC have continued to draw stocks from us and thus we support them fully on aftersales.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hifiluv on April 09, 2008, 15:24
i read tis thread with much interest and may i say i appreciate Jason's effort in clearing the air.  imho, as long your service exceed tat of some shops in Alephi, i think u got a gd chance to succeed.  there got a shop who only serve his own kakis becos i think he made enough $ already, so he choose his customers instead of the other way round,  (no prize for guessing who lah) :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on April 16, 2008, 12:59
Great news ... received a call from Henry just now during lunch and there's a shipment coming in next week..  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: bong on April 16, 2008, 13:20

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8) bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SteinigerGE on April 16, 2008, 21:55
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8) bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ajitbm on April 19, 2008, 19:56
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8) bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lkaiseng on May 05, 2008, 16:24
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8) bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: badbad2000 on August 21, 2008, 17:58
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: badbad2000 on August 25, 2008, 12:22
Hi, if bi-amp B&W 685 will make any much different? I am using Denon 1909 AV receiver.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: bong on August 25, 2008, 14:38
Hi, if bi-amp B&W 685 will make any much different? I am using Denon 1909 AV receiver.

why do you want to bi-amp? I'm not familiar with the 1909, but is there a pre-out option for you to even consider bi-amping?

or are you asking about bi-wiring?  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: badbad2000 on August 26, 2008, 00:25
not bi-wiring. 1909 have the A+B to bi-amp the speaker.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on August 27, 2008, 01:32
Hi bro, if this is the case, you will be driving the speaker by feeding 90w to the LF and 90W to the HF. Theoretically it should works better than just feeding it with 90W. You should get more details and with more power, clipping can be avoided . Try and let us know. Especially on the performance of the 685.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: badbad2000 on August 30, 2008, 13:20
I have tested passive bi-amp the 685 for only right speaker using a AVR-1909.  ;)
setup: cd player using optial output, frontA bi-amp using surr back.
test CD: camomile blend-Emi Fujita, Faith-Pass me not, There is none like you,Dreamgirls-Listen, Jay Chao-November's Chopin
result: HF benefit more on the high side. But some CD like Dreamgirls-Listen is too high for my liking. But Jay Chao-November's Chopin sounds more crisp. camomile blend-Emi Fujita the backgroup sound like old recording noise.. too crisp for my liking.
note: my speaker is still new. not even fully run-in yet. at the moment, conventional still ok for my overall types of music listerning.  :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on October 16, 2008, 15:00
Informing B&W owners of updates.
Refer here:
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=57735.msg424340#msg424340
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on October 16, 2008, 17:09
whats your opening hours for these 3days? any extension either open earlier or close later?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on October 17, 2008, 11:26
Hi,
I regret that there will be no extension of hours.  However, if you need to make appointment, pls give our guys a call for an appointment.  We will try to accommodate.  The earlier you let us know, the higher the chance for us to make appropriate arrangements.  But we will not open at 6am :)

In actual fact, we are usually closed on Sunday but we have chose to open during the show period.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on October 17, 2008, 11:50
thanks.  :) good to know.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kzone on November 03, 2008, 08:45
Anyone is driving B&W spkrs with class D amps? How is it?

I have an old pair of 803 matrix & looking around to feed it a "powerful" amp... but hi power solid states cost alot ah...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on November 03, 2008, 10:02
Hi kzone,
I am using a pair of Bel Canto mono to drive my 805s.  They are very neutral and so far I am happy with pairing them.

I have not hear the rest of the class d like nuforce, red dragon ... etc but I hear there are difference even between different class D.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: RAYRAY on November 15, 2008, 11:43
Hi Guys,
Newbie here. Which will be a good Class D amps to pair with Rotel surround amps driving a pair of B&W 603 S3 speaker?
I am more towards listening to music.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: RAYRAY on November 25, 2008, 22:30
Any comment on Musical Fidelity A5.5 or Bryston B100 SST Integrated Amp is a good match with B&W 603 speakers? :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kzone on November 29, 2008, 03:48
Hi Guys,
Newbie here. Which will be a good Class D amps to pair with Rotel surround amps driving a pair of B&W 603 S3 speaker?
I am more towards listening to music.

Is the Nuforce IA-7 V2 considered a Class D amp? I thought it is but the manual say its not...

Anyway, i got fairly good results with it driving my Matrix series floorstander... very transparent, amazing seperation & depth, good controlled bass & pinpoint imaging. Sound powerful but lacks dynamics (contradicting I know but it just feels dat way) Also seems to be lacking on the high frequency.. all these seems weird cos I thought digital amp is very efficient so shud have good dynamics & suppose to have good highs...

Overall, music sounds relax & it is able to control the speaker very well.. no bloated bass.. good timing.. performing much better than my YBA integre... But but but.. at the end of the day, I still prefer the YBA over the nuforce cos when I stop "auditioning" the 2 amps, the music fm the YBA just flows better than the nuforce.. maybe I just prefer the colouration of the YBA.. & oh.. i hate the vol knob... need to twist sooo many rounds...

P/S : The Nuforce is just staying over at my place for a few days before moving to its permanent home at my bro's place so I wont have time to get intimate with it...

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kzone on November 29, 2008, 04:01
Hi kzone,
I am using a pair of Bel Canto mono to drive my 805s.  They are very neutral and so far I am happy with pairing them.

I have not hear the rest of the class d like nuforce, red dragon ... etc but I hear there are difference even between different class D.

Hi, I had a fling with the nuforce integreted (see post above) & its not bad... I hope I'm not opening a can of worms but how does neutral sounds like? Actually, I believe our B&Ws are not neutral sounding speakers... I'm now looking around to change my own amp & want look at something "neutral" cos the YBA i had for many many years is very coloured (I like it though).. but i need to have a feel/benchmark of wat neutral sounds like & also wondering if our B&Ws can sound neutral..

How does ur Bel canto sounds like & what other amps did u compare it with?



Fellow B&W owners, my current setup is as follows & looking to change only the amp.. do advise if u have any amp to recommend I check out... preferably lower end pre power but integreted is welcome too...

YBA CD2 (power cord - JPS digital AC for main unit & YBA diamond for the power supply unit)
YBA integre DT (power cord - JPS Power AC)
B&W 803 Matrix Series 2
Crystal Micro I/C & YBA diamond 2 runs for biwire SC
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on November 29, 2008, 15:15
Anyone is driving B&W spkrs with class D amps? How is it?

I have an old pair of 803 matrix & looking around to feed it a "powerful" amp... but hi power solid states cost alot ah...

Hi,
You can just drop by the B&W showroom and listen.  We have the nuforce for demo.
Also, we are offering nuforce on discount if you are interested.
Regards
jason teong
www.theexperts.asia
Title: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tomktan on December 30, 2008, 23:56
Hi all

This is my first post in this forum....newbie here. I am planning to do a new HT setup soon with this configuration

Main         - 684
Centre      - HTM61
Surround   - 685
Sub          - ASW610
Marantz SR8002

Usage - 70% HT  30% music


Here are some of my questions/advise needed

1.   Need recommendation for cable. I wish to use the 10% cost of the equipment as the guideline ..so about $500-$600 for all the cables.  Can help to recommend the brand/places selling/ cost per metre if possible.  My surround will require about 12-15m in length

2.  Intend to wall mount the 685.  Again need advise/recommedation on wall mount brand / place to purchase/ cost

3   Read somewhere in this forum that there may be some stock issues???


Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: t1m3ch453r on December 31, 2008, 10:55
You can go to home fix for the rears - the speaker cable retails at 0.8 per metre. That takes care of the longest part. Rears get little sound anyway so you dont care that much. Plus while listening to music unless you want to create 5.1 (given music is stereo), the fronts need the love. Get QED Silver Anniversary from Audio Culture - dont remember the cost but not too prohibitive.

Another B&W owner here. Running 5x M-1 Sattelites in my home theater....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on January 02, 2009, 12:04

Here are some of my questions/advise needed

1.   Need recommendation for cable. I wish to use the 10% cost of the equipment as the guideline ..so about $500-$600 for all the cables.  Can help to recommend the brand/places selling/ cost per metre if possible.  My surround will require about 12-15m in lengt


Thanks in advance

Welcome and congratz on your purchase.  I'm using belden 1313a to connect all my speakers (684s HTM62 and PSB alpha rears).  It's way below your budget :) but it's sufficient for me.  You can do a search for it on this forums whether if it fits your needs.

hope this helps :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tomktan on January 06, 2009, 22:04
Have committed and bought the following:  Now waiting for the delivery ...eta before CNY.............I Hope

Main         - 684
Centre      - HTM61
Surround   - 685
Sub          - ASW610
Marantz SR8002

Now for the cable....any more recommendation beside belden?  Budget about 5-6 hundred. 
Also still looking high and low for wall mount for my 685.....please help

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on January 06, 2009, 22:22
Y dun chk out:
LHS Electronics Enterprise

Address: 10 Jln Besar #02-27 Sim Lim Tower Singapore 208787
Telephone: 6293 2242 

I used to follow the norm of 10% of cost on cables. And I had used pretty X cables as well. But now my Front and Ctr are Belden --> IMO, cheap and good. And yes, I am still stubborn with >$200 Chord HDMI cable. Does it look and sound better? Just a little.

So, simply say, no harm go LHS and ask those uncles there for opinion. You could always walk away after that, but likely you will return to buy later  ;D

Search LHS and Belden here & there's tons of threads about Belden  ;)

I envy yr B$W....congrats
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chongau1 on January 08, 2009, 11:18
Hi Tomktan

Your speakers would be even more impressive if you had bought the 683 instead of the 684.
Where did you buy them and how much?

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tomktan on January 09, 2009, 00:16
yes

I wanted the 683 but but but  ...$$$$$$$$ not enough :( :-[

PM you
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on January 09, 2009, 09:44
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
9) Demosthenes: 2 X 685 and HTM62

Hi all,

Just became the latest member on this thread to be a very proud owner of a pair of 685s and the HTM62.  I was thinking of using the M1s as surround speakers, but decided otherwise because those bloody stands are a huge rip off.

First impressions are that the system sounds pretty awesome right out of the box, but I have only had the chance to watch Starhub HD and SD channels.  Played a tad of Xbox but I just found out that cheap ass microsoft requires you to buy an optical cable to get full surround (my Xbox is not the Elite version and comes with only component cabling).

Still tweaking the whole shebang.

All in all, the sound is great, the looks are beautiful and the weekend is coming, so its a glorious two days to tweak! :)


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on January 09, 2009, 16:03
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
8) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
9) Demosthenes: 2 X 685 and HTM62

Hi all,

Just became the latest member on this thread to be a very proud owner of a pair of 685s and the HTM62.  I was thinking of using the M1s as surround speakers, but decided otherwise because those bloody stands are a huge rip off.

First impressions are that the system sounds pretty awesome right out of the box, but I have only had the chance to watch Starhub HD and SD channels.  Played a tad of Xbox but I just found out that cheap ass microsoft requires you to buy an optical cable to get full surround (my Xbox is not the Elite version and comes with only component cabling).

Still tweaking the whole shebang.

All in all, the sound is great, the looks are beautiful and the weekend is coming, so its a glorious two days to tweak! :)




Bro, when you bought your B&W? Tot of getting 686 as my surround but no stock. That was abt 1 week back.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on January 09, 2009, 16:10
Bro, when you bought your B&W? Tot of getting 686 as my surround but no stock. That was abt 1 week back.

Bought my 685s two days ago.  Not sure about the 686 because they were too blocky for surrounds.  I was looking at the M1s instead.

The Experts Group has a pair of DS3s on sale I think.  Not sure if that suits your taste.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: infernosix on January 10, 2009, 08:24
If you're looking for a pair of stands for the M-1 speakers I've got a pair for sale. Silver in colour. PM me if interested. I don't need it anymore so can let go cheap.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Vice on January 13, 2009, 14:43
Bought my 685s two days ago.  Not sure about the 686 because they were too blocky for surrounds.  I was looking at the M1s instead.

The Experts Group has a pair of DS3s on sale I think.  Not sure if that suits your taste.

Lucky for you that you have managed to get the 685. 

I ordered my 685 (black ash) - paid deposit, just after Christmas and till now have not received it.  Was told that it will come earliest beginning Jan09 and latest mid Jan09. 

It's sometime frustrating when the company did so much promotion/publicity about B&W and when you want to buy it, they will tell you they don't have stocks and need to wait.
When you ask them when the stocks will arrive, they will tell you not sure, maybe Feb/Mar.  And to ensure that I get the 1st batch that arrives, I need confirm my order first by paying a deposit to secure it.

No doubt my experience with the Experts so far, are very good.  The Sales guy Kenny is very helpful and patient with me.  My only pain points is not knowing when I will get my speakers and need to wait long for my purchase. 

I really hope they will improve on their delivery lead times or at least keep more stocks on the popular models.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: boey_francis on January 16, 2009, 11:21
How much did u paid for the 685 after discount?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on January 16, 2009, 12:07
Lucky for you that you have managed to get the 685. 

I ordered my 685 (black ash) - paid deposit, just after Christmas and till now have not received it.  Was told that it will come earliest beginning Jan09 and latest mid Jan09. 

It's sometime frustrating when the company did so much promotion/publicity about B&W and when you want to buy it, they will tell you they don't have stocks and need to wait.
When you ask them when the stocks will arrive, they will tell you not sure, maybe Feb/Mar.  And to ensure that I get the 1st batch that arrives, I need confirm my order first by paying a deposit to secure it.

No doubt my experience with the Experts so far, are very good.  The Sales guy Kenny is very helpful and patient with me.  My only pain points is not knowing when I will get my speakers and need to wait long for my purchase. 

I really hope they will improve on their delivery lead times or at least keep more stocks on the popular models.

Hi,
Just to drop a note on the stock issue.

685 is a highly popular model and globally, demand have outstrip supply.  We will recommend customer that is interested to purchase to decide early so that we can meet the leadtime.  Also, we will recommend that you consider alternative colors if you wish to have early deliveries. 

This will allow more flexibility and facilitate quicker fulfillment of orders.  While our retail stocks have been forecasted/boosted to meet CNY demands, but sadly, we cannot anticipate it 100%. 

Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on January 19, 2009, 22:48
Jason,

I have the intention to purchase 684 and 685, went to KEC and they want me to place order and they will help get my stocks for CNY. But when i call up your shop, your salesman say no stocks. Is that possible? Why???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on January 20, 2009, 10:33
Jason,

I have the intention to purchase 684 and 685, went to KEC and they want me to place order and they will help get my stocks for CNY. But when i call up your shop, your salesman say no stocks. Is that possible? Why???

Hi Music Loft,
While we are the distributor, we have no exact information if KEC have or do not have stocks.  Our retail ops and wholesale ops are seperate operations, ie keep their own stocks so it is possible for certain colors/models, availability will vary.  This is usual for all brands.

Our retail operation forecasts, purchases and keeps their own stocks.  At this time, they have limited stocks for 684 and 685.  Some items are reserved for customer with paid deposits but the sales people maybe able to juggle the schedules. 

You will need to speak to the retail guys but we prefer not to give empty promises.  I believe we have fulfilled our promised to customer's CNY timeline, one way or the other. 

Thanks.
Jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Vice on January 21, 2009, 20:26
How much did u paid for the 685 after discount?
There's discount given but insignificant.....cos, there's waiting list for 685....and you need to place advance order....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Vice on January 21, 2009, 20:33
Hi Music Loft,
While we are the distributor, we have no exact information if KEC have or do not have stocks.  Our retail ops and wholesale ops are seperate operations, ie keep their own stocks so it is possible for certain colors/models, availability will vary.  This is usual for all brands.

Our retail operation forecasts, purchases and keeps their own stocks.  At this time, they have limited stocks for 684 and 685.  Some items are reserved for customer with paid deposits but the sales people maybe able to juggle the schedules. 

You will need to speak to the retail guys but we prefer not to give empty promises.  I believe we have fulfilled our promised to customer's CNY timeline, one way or the other. 

Thanks.
Jason

Hi Music Loft,
I got my 685 few days ago and I have placed my order just before Christmas.  So, go figure how long it will take for you to get the 685 or 684........
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on January 22, 2009, 01:06
OK.. Will go and place order then....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on January 23, 2009, 23:40
Hi Music Loft,
I got my 685 few days ago and I have placed my order just before Christmas.  So, go figure how long it will take for you to get the 685 or 684........


Depending on color.  I believe some can either take goods now or next weekend when port reopens.  Some colors have  long back order across the globe.

Regretably, we are not selling mass produced products that runs out of a fast production line.  And if we adjust the price upwards instead of downwards like what we just did in Jan 2009, we could probably do better logistics, like flying in products. 

As I have mentioned, place order early and have alternative color.  We will also prefer faster sales cycle but regrettably there is supply bottleneck.  I guess no one is happy with the situation.  Perhaps as a consolation, this does gives testament to the global demand of the 684 and 685.

cheers and happy CNY.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: tomktan on January 25, 2009, 23:07
Hi Music Loft,
While we are the distributor, we have no exact information if KEC have or do not have stocks.  Our retail ops and wholesale ops are seperate operations, ie keep their own stocks so it is possible for certain colors/models, availability will vary.  This is usual for all brands.

Our retail operation forecasts, purchases and keeps their own stocks.  At this time, they have limited stocks for 684 and 685.  Some items are reserved for customer with paid deposits but the sales people maybe able to juggle the schedules. 

You will need to speak to the retail guys but we prefer not to give empty promises.  I believe we have fulfilled our promised to customer's CNY timeline, one way or the other. 

Thanks.
Jason

Yes, truely agreed with Jason on the part on fulfillment of customers' orders on CNY timeline.  Received my order just 4 days ago and managed to set it up today.  Though did not received the color that I wanted, I am more than compensated for it.  Truly pleased with the services and would like to extend special thanks to Henry & kenny for making it happen.  Now I am a proud and happy owner of B&W set.  Cheers and wishing all a happy CNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Fanzhen on January 25, 2009, 23:44
Yes, truely agreed with Jason on the part on fulfillment of customers' orders on CNY timeline.  Received my order just 4 days ago and managed to set it up today.  Though did not received the color that I wanted, I am more than compensated for it.  Truly pleased with the services and would like to extend special thanks to Henry & kenny for making it happen.  Now I am a proud and happy owner of B&W set.  Cheers and wishing all a happy CNY


Hi Tomktan,

Lee & I might be coming to your place this coming Friday. Please prepare food & beer hor.

*******Gong Xi Fa Cai*********
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on January 25, 2009, 23:54
lol..if they are serving food and beer ah..i also wanna buy from them also leh...lol
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 31, 2009, 20:56
hmm what's so great abt this 684/685 huh ? so popular ?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on February 02, 2009, 12:20
hmm what's so great abt this 684/685 huh ? so popular ?

Hi c722,
Pls drop by to listen to 684/5 and do give us your feedback.

Cheers.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on February 02, 2009, 12:23
Yes, truely agreed with Jason on the part on fulfillment of customers' orders on CNY timeline.  Received my order just 4 days ago and managed to set it up today.  Though did not received the color that I wanted, I am more than compensated for it.  Truly pleased with the services and would like to extend special thanks to Henry & kenny for making it happen.  Now I am a proud and happy owner of B&W set.  Cheers and wishing all a happy CNY

Hi Tomktan,
We only can apologise that we cannot predict the vessel cancellations and regretably could not bring in the item of your choice in time for CNY. 
Thanks for your patience.  And hope that you enjoyed your "better" system. 
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on February 02, 2009, 17:13
Hi, I'm very new to these stuff...and my fren is recommending the Plinius integrated amp (9200) for me, if I wanted to pair them up with B&W speakers, doesn't really know how does that sounds with B&W speakeres, I'm now planning to get my self a tower speaker, what would you guys receommend? (I do listen to most of those pop and rock songs)

Cheers
Klone
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: badbad2000 on February 06, 2009, 20:25
hi, any recommendation of cable for 685? thinking of trying different cable to bi-amp again. Anyone try silver cable for 685 before?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on February 19, 2009, 15:59
Hi, I'm very new to these stuff...and my fren is recommending the Plinius integrated amp (9200) for me, if I wanted to pair them up with B&W speakers, doesn't really know how does that sounds with B&W speakeres, I'm now planning to get my self a tower speaker, what would you guys receommend? (I do listen to most of those pop and rock songs)

Cheers
Klone
HI Klone,
Sorry for late reply.  Have been out of action due to an ear infection.

On Plinius, I apologise that we have not heard it before so do not know the performance.  For us, we match it more with Arcam (we are the agent of Arcam) and do know that Arcam matches it with B&W nicely.

You can drop by to listen to it.  Preferably, pls give us a call to let us know the Speaker model so we can prepare the setup. 
Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on February 19, 2009, 16:02
hi, any recommendation of cable for 685? thinking of trying different cable to bi-amp again. Anyone try silver cable for 685 before?

Hi,
We recommend AudioQuest, not only because we are the agent for Audioquest but also because we know Audioquest have an established reputation (and sell-through) in the global market place.

Audioquest do have both copper and silver cable so you can listen to how each one match up to 685.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: dirtyjack on March 01, 2009, 13:50
hello guys,

i'm looking for b&w zepellin.

i know there's one shop in lavender street that sell this dock but the salesman there is damm cocky and i dont wish to purchase from them, other then that place do you guys know any other place that sell this item? i tried adelphi but they dont seems to carry this also.

 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 01, 2009, 15:44
hello guys,

i'm looking for b&w zepellin.

i know there's one shop in lavender street that sell this dock but the salesman there is damm cocky and i dont wish to purchase from them, other then that place do you guys know any other place that sell this item? i tried adelphi but they dont seems to carry this also.

i think thats the only shop that carries them. they are rightfully the distributer. you might want to ask to see the manager in-charge. i am sure someone will response to you soon.

cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 03, 2009, 15:51
hello guys,

i'm looking for b&w zepellin.

i know there's one shop in lavender street that sell this dock but the salesman there is damm cocky and i dont wish to purchase from them, other then that place do you guys know any other place that sell this item? i tried adelphi but they dont seems to carry this also.

 


Hi,
Regret your unhappiness with our service.  I apologise for it.
You can try purchasing from i-Studio in Paragon.

Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 05, 2009, 11:07
Just a note to inform of B&W's new product that will be arriving end of this month:

XT8 - improvement of the sleek XT4 speaker
Panorama - "Zeppelin-like" 5.1 "sound-bar"

Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: arsene on March 05, 2009, 12:18
hello guys,

i'm looking for b&w zepellin.

i know there's one shop in lavender street that sell this dock but the salesman there is damm cocky and i dont wish to purchase from them, other then that place do you guys know any other place that sell this item? i tried adelphi but they dont seems to carry this also.

 


Actually I happened to be around the area on Monday and pop in at the Lavender showroom just to take a look.  When I got in, saw one of the salesman entertaining another customer.  He left me to browse the products undisturbed but I did not mind as he was busy with someone.  Later, he excused himself to have a brief chat with me.  Subsequently I was entertained by another salesman (his name is Henry), and he was very friendly and patient while I was auditioning the speakers.  Spent about 45 minutes there.

Just wanted to say that everyone's experience will be different depending on the timing of your visit.  If you happen to visit at a busy hour, chances are you will not be given much attention.  Imagine yourself being the customer the sales guy is attending to half way before he left to entertain someone who just walked in.

Overall it has been a pleasant experience, contrary to a number of negative feedbacks on their experience at the showroom.

I for one will not mind going back there.  The only thing holding me back is the rigid pricing of their products.  Discount quoted was only 5% off list price.  Given the drop in pound sterling, and the vast mark up of their products (I am referring to their B&W speakers), I am sure they can do better.  Competing brands like Monitor Audios are better value for money if you were to compare the pound prices of both brands in UK.


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 05, 2009, 12:55
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback and glade that you got a good experience here.

Just to mention on the discount structure, we understand that pounds is weaker but regrettably other costs like rental/logistics/manpower is higher, year on year.  (yes, its a common excuse..:) ) Despite that we have adjusted list price downwards to try to patch the difference.  We do know some other brand's distributors are still keeping list price high so that they can offer steep discounts to make customer happy.  We could have easily stick to the earlier list price and offer 15% discounts.  We have adjusted prices downward 10% permanently, even if UK pounds goes back to earlier and higher rates (ie no intention to up price later)

While UK pounds is weak, US Dollar is high.  And yes, EURO.  Depending on which price you look at, the price difference varies.  And when the reverse happens (USD low and Pounds high) in a few months, we will get the reverse arguements that USD is weak and our price should be lower.

Not to sound that we are too arrogant/ignorant to know the poor economic situation, and the fact that everyone wants to save some money while being able to entertain themselves at home,  I once again point out that discounts depends on the item(s) being purchased and if you are puchasing a package of items (which gives more room to play with).  Ha... and like car salesman, depending on the time you catch the salesman (ie how much pressure I am giving them).

As an added note, for some models that our dealers carry as well, we regretably have to stick to the agreed discounts that dealers wants to maintain at.  I am sure every distributor can definitely discount more then their dealers but prefer not to put dealers out of business as ultimately, we thrive on each other's success.  And yes, periodically, we review prices together to support consumer demands.

finally, we do wish we have had "vast mark-up".  I think every distributor hope so.

If you need help, pls PM me but I try not to "irritate" our retail guys due to my "harassment" since sales value affects their commission. But I am always happy to help.

Cheers
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 05, 2009, 18:43
WOW...this is a definitely a interesting thread..I can see some guys in here dislike The EXPERTS Group..why???

Couse of their NAME? or the COCKY sales guy that someone mention? PRICING? lolz

I'm a visitor to that showroom as well..I see no problem with that NAME, COCKY sales guy but there's something to do with the pricing...lolz..

Jason hope that you can do something about that..I wish to buy from you.. of course thru the COCKY sales guy!!!lolz


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 05, 2009, 23:09
i think the B&W brand name sells for itself. the product range is vast from entry level 6 series to the awesome Nautilus. price factor has always been the issue. i am glad i got my older 6 series at a much more affordable price than the 6 series of today.(the newer 6 series has added new technologies compared to the older one) then again its still typical for most of us wanting more discounts.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 05, 2009, 23:44
Yeap, your rite in some point, but then I personally don't think that the brand will sell by itself, you need someone to promote that, just imagine that I'm new to all these stuff, if the sales guy over there not let me know what was that is all about in the end I wouldn't know what I am buying...Am I rite? personally I do think that guy is not cocky at all, he was friendly though..and when i was there, I'm a happy visitor after all, although I never buy them couse of the (price)

But I personally think that they have their own reason why they need to sell at that price range.

1) They wanna distinguish themselves with any other brand out there?
2) They are very much exclusive?

If they set a low price there would not be any exclusivity? I don't know...this is what I did think about...NO OFFENSE=just for discussion

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on March 06, 2009, 21:53
Yeap, your rite in some point, but then I personally don't think that the brand will sell by itself, you need someone to promote that, just imagine that I'm new to all these stuff, if the sales guy over there not let me know what was that is all about in the end I wouldn't know what I am buying...Am I rite? personally I do think that guy is not cocky at all, he was friendly though..and when i was there, I'm a happy visitor after all, although I never buy them couse of the (price)

But I personally think that they have their own reason why they need to sell at that price range.

1) They wanna distinguish themselves with any other brand out there?
2) They are very much exclusive?

If they set a low price there would not be any exclusivity? I don't know...this is what I did think about...NO OFFENSE=just for discussion



Two months back, I was comtemplating between B&W and MA and in the end I bought the B&W CM1 despite the high price tag. Ppl might questioned, for that price, you would have gotten yourself a much higher end MA speakers. Given my reply then would be yes, but B&W is such an exclusive brand just like the BMW for cars and the service/support should be first class and I'm paying for the first class service.

But if you ask me the same question now, my answer would still be yes but I'm gonna look at the higher end MA speakers instead.

A month after I bought my speakers, my son dented the fragile and delicated tweeter dome. For that I asked The Experts Group (TEG) to help me change the domes. There is nothing with TEG but when I asked how long would it take for B&W to send the parts over from UK, I was told they would take about 30 - 60 days. What the heck! Even if they are literally shipped, the journey dun even need to take 1 whole month unless they kayak here.

I recalled recently my friend's BMW car seat has a strand of thread that came loose and for that BMW changed the whole seat for him and the seat arrived from germany in just 2 weeks. A car seat = 2 weeks and a pair of tweeter dome = ?? months. I've waited a month and still no news....

Guess B&W = Buy & Wait


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 07, 2009, 00:09
Yeap, your rite in some point, but then I personally don't think that the brand will sell by itself, you need someone to promote that, just imagine that I'm new to all these stuff, if the sales guy over there not let me know what was that is all about in the end I wouldn't know what I am buying...Am I rite? personally I do think that guy is not cocky at all, he was friendly though..and when i was there, I'm a happy visitor after all, although I never buy them couse of the (price)

But I personally think that they have their own reason why they need to sell at that price range.

1) They wanna distinguish themselves with any other brand out there?
2) They are very much exclusive?

If they set a low price there would not be any exclusivity? I don't know...this is what I did think about...NO OFFENSE=just for discussion



bro. maybe after i show you the B&W DVD then you might change your mind? well i agree 50% on your views. i was introduced this B&W brand by a frenz 3 years back. did some homework and some listening at KEC and the previous monsoon. happyily bought front, rear & center spks. and they are with me for 2years. my only regret is i didnt manage to buy the previous 6series floorstander.
no comments to your question 1.
but yes to question 2, they are. why esle would there be a Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners thread?

note: pm me if you are interested to view the B&W DVD product demo disc.

cheers
DJQ
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 07, 2009, 00:15
Two months back, I was comtemplating between B&W and MA and in the end I bought the B&W CM1 despite the high price tag. Ppl might questioned, for that price, you would have gotten yourself a much higher end MA speakers. Given my reply then would be yes, but B&W is such an exclusive brand just like the BMW for cars and the service/support should be first class and I'm paying for the first class service.

But if you ask me the same question now, my answer would still be yes but I'm gonna look at the higher end MA speakers instead.

A month after I bought my speakers, my son dented the fragile and delicated tweeter dome. For that I asked The Experts Group (TEG) to help me change the domes. There is nothing with TEG but when I asked how long would it take for B&W to send the parts over from UK, I was told they would take about 30 - 60 days. What the heck! Even if they are literally shipped, the journey dun even need to take 1 whole month unless they kayak here.

I recalled recently my friend's BMW car seat has a strand of thread that came loose and for that BMW changed the whole seat for him and the seat arrived from germany in just 2 weeks. A car seat = 2 weeks and a pair of tweeter dome = ?? months. I've waited a month and still no news....

Guess B&W = Buy & Wait




sorry to hear what you have gone thru. i guess speakers and cars are different. if there were 10 times as many B&W speaker owners here i believe its possible. even a 1 to 1 exchange with the repair topup might be possible.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on March 07, 2009, 00:19
Ouch ...
I remember one time I was going close up on the 804 in the KEC show room to admire their already dented tweeter.  Mr KEC shouted to me "touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your nipples!"  ;D
A month after I bought my speakers, my son dented the fragile and delicated tweeter dome.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 07, 2009, 00:28
Ouch ...
I remember one time I was going close up on the 804 in the KEC show room to admire their already dented tweeter.  Mr KEC shouted to me "touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your nipples!"  ;D

haha bro. now thats familiar....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hotbird on March 07, 2009, 00:31
Ouch ...
I remember one time I was going close up on the 804 in the KEC show room to admire their already dented tweeter.  Mr KEC shouted to me "touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your nipples!"  ;D

So dad's going to scream at his son now "touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your nipples!"    ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 07, 2009, 00:32
Repost of the list. before it goes missing. bros pls add on to the list.

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on March 07, 2009, 00:33
Son still can lah ... Daughter cannot liaoooo  :)
So dad's going to scream at his son now "touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your nipples!"    ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: newdan on March 07, 2009, 01:21
Two mths ago, I ordered a full 685 HT set from distributor.  After a looong wait, they managed to loan me a new set but of a different colour.  Unfortunately, me son's itchy fingers depressed the tweeters of the 3 speakers the same day.  Imagine my horror when I was quoted $500 bucks (incl labour) to repair the tweeters.  Unbelievable - and was told that it's fixed price by agent.  If not for the awful colour (my view), wld have just taken loaned set and lived with it.   

Darn frustrating experience.  If the fragile tweeter is a problem faced by so many pple, why can't they just change the design.  Or maybe that's the whole point - make it easily spoilable, don't provide warranty and charge an arm/leg for repair.   Was so excited with my B&W purchase but on hindsight, perhaps shld hv gone with the MA instead...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on March 07, 2009, 01:43
I emailed B&W on my queries and no reply from them, not even a standard "We'll look into it".  They're really kinda yaya.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hotbird on March 07, 2009, 01:48
Son still can lah ... Daughter cannot liaoooo  :)

If the daughter happened to be pimple-ed or acne-ed, then try
"touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your pimples!"   

They will run a mile away  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Fanzhen on March 07, 2009, 10:23
If the daughter happened to be pimple-ed or acne-ed, then try
"touch my tweeter and I will squeeze your pimples!"   

They will run a mile away  ;D

The worst case I've ever encountered. Kid sit on the subwoofer & kick the woofer like a drumer.
Down firing sub should be safer.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 07, 2009, 11:25
) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on March 07, 2009, 12:11
The worst case I've ever encountered. Kid sit on the subwoofer & kick the woofer like a drumer.
Down firing sub should be safer.  ;D

I beg to differ. The porthole for down firing woofer is usually on the side and kids like to do the hockey pockey. My son, YES Again My Son, puts lots of stuff inside and finally my WH sub gave up on him and died. Now I cut out a hardcopy to cover the my velodyne + and cover to deter his itchy fingers from doing all sorts of funny things with it.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 07, 2009, 12:32
I beg to differ. The porthole for down firing woofer is usually on the side and kids like to do the hockey pockey. My son, YES Again My Son, puts lots of stuff inside and finally my WH sub gave up on him and died. Now I cut out a hardcopy to cover the my velodyne + and cover to deter his itchy fingers from doing all sorts of funny things with it.

My old PB12ISD/V has a downward firing cone and side vents but the vents are at the back next to the amp inputs so no problems on either side ;)

Not that i have kids so no need to worry
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 07, 2009, 14:10
Mhh... is this what is really happening in B&W, maybe I put it that way, maybe they wish to help you out, but then if there's something really happens then it's hard to tell.

One of my friend have bought a few speakers from them, and have the same incident where his kids poke on the tweeter, and gets his replacement quite fast, ard 20 days? Thats why he ask me to consider B&W....

Well...depends...all the best to you

Two months back, I was comtemplating between B&W and MA and in the end I bought the B&W CM1 despite the high price tag. Ppl might questioned, for that price, you would have gotten yourself a much higher end MA speakers. Given my reply then would be yes, but B&W is such an exclusive brand just like the BMW for cars and the service/support should be first class and I'm paying for the first class service.

But if you ask me the same question now, my answer would still be yes but I'm gonna look at the higher end MA speakers instead.

A month after I bought my speakers, my son dented the fragile and delicated tweeter dome. For that I asked The Experts Group (TEG) to help me change the domes. There is nothing with TEG but when I asked how long would it take for B&W to send the parts over from UK, I was told they would take about 30 - 60 days. What the heck! Even if they are literally shipped, the journey dun even need to take 1 whole month unless they kayak here.

I recalled recently my friend's BMW car seat has a strand of thread that came loose and for that BMW changed the whole seat for him and the seat arrived from germany in just 2 weeks. A car seat = 2 weeks and a pair of tweeter dome = ?? months. I've waited a month and still no news....

Guess B&W = Buy & Wait



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 07, 2009, 14:11
OMG...3 tweeter in a day...lolz...all the best to you...

Two mths ago, I ordered a full 685 HT set from distributor.  After a looong wait, they managed to loan me a new set but of a different colour.  Unfortunately, me son's itchy fingers depressed the tweeters of the 3 speakers the same day.  Imagine my horror when I was quoted $500 bucks (incl labour) to repair the tweeters.  Unbelievable - and was told that it's fixed price by agent.  If not for the awful colour (my view), wld have just taken loaned set and lived with it.   

Darn frustrating experience.  If the fragile tweeter is a problem faced by so many pple, why can't they just change the design.  Or maybe that's the whole point - make it easily spoilable, don't provide warranty and charge an arm/leg for repair.   Was so excited with my B&W purchase but on hindsight, perhaps shld hv gone with the MA instead...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 07, 2009, 14:12
OMG...3 tweeter in a day...lolz...all the best to you...hope this don't happens to me...

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 07, 2009, 14:14
Down firing sub? so how's the effect? as I heard that it won't be as good compare to the direct firing sub?

Anyway it's quite subjective,

The worst case I've ever encountered. Kid sit on the subwoofer & kick the woofer like a drumer.
Down firing sub should be safer.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on March 09, 2009, 00:17

A month after I bought my speakers, my son dented the fragile and delicated tweeter dome. For that I asked The Experts Group (TEG) to help me change the domes. There is nothing with TEG but when I asked how long would it take for B&W to send the parts over from UK, I was told they would take about 30 - 60 days. What the heck! Even if they are literally shipped, the journey dun even need to take 1 whole month unless they kayak here.

I recalled recently my friend's BMW car seat has a strand of thread that came loose and for that BMW changed the whole seat for him and the seat arrived from germany in just 2 weeks. A car seat = 2 weeks and a pair of tweeter dome = ?? months. I've waited a month and still no news....

Guess B&W = Buy & Wait




Eh... Actually my friend have a similar experience but he managed to get it replace quite soon. In fact, they only ask him to bring unit down for replacement when the parts are in and it took only about a day or two to get it replaced after the parts are in.

Btw, since there are so many discussion on prices here, are there going to be any "recession sales" coming up??  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: t1m3ch453r on March 09, 2009, 15:39
) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 09, 2009, 16:43
Two months back, I was comtemplating between B&W and MA and in the end I bought the B&W CM1 despite the high price tag. Ppl might questioned, for that price, you would have gotten yourself a much higher end MA speakers. Given my reply then would be yes, but B&W is such an exclusive brand just like the BMW for cars and the service/support should be first class and I'm paying for the first class service.

But if you ask me the same question now, my answer would still be yes but I'm gonna look at the higher end MA speakers instead.

A month after I bought my speakers, my son dented the fragile and delicated tweeter dome. For that I asked The Experts Group (TEG) to help me change the domes. There is nothing with TEG but when I asked how long would it take for B&W to send the parts over from UK, I was told they would take about 30 - 60 days. What the heck! Even if they are literally shipped, the journey dun even need to take 1 whole month unless they kayak here.

I recalled recently my friend's BMW car seat has a strand of thread that came loose and for that BMW changed the whole seat for him and the seat arrived from germany in just 2 weeks. A car seat = 2 weeks and a pair of tweeter dome = ?? months. I've waited a month and still no news....

Guess B&W = Buy & Wait



Hi Wyvern,
I can understand your frustration and believe you have emailed myself and B&W UK on this. 

I believe all parties have apologised to you on this and explained that this is a difficult transitional period where B&W is trying to transfer service support from UK to Asia.  The whole stock movement have to be suspended pending the system (hardware, software, stocks) to be transferred.

This is why no one can commit an earlier delivery date for your replacement of your dented tweeter.

And we anticipated delay, this is why we did not ask you to bring down your unit so that you can still use the speaker (despite the dented tweeter).

We have even told B&W that we will pay priority courier to get this item in and have communicated with them repeatedly on this issue.  Also, I believe you are in communication with Kenny (emails and calls) on this matter.

On the point on the new BMW car with a seat with manufacturing defect, I think B&W should have changed the whole car since its new!  And in that perspective, if you have purchased from us and have had manufacturer defects with the item, we would have changed it even if we did not get support from B&W. 

If you wish to further clarify on your HF issue, pls contact me via email (which you have).  I have also asked B&W to email you directly on this matter.

Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 09, 2009, 16:47
Two mths ago, I ordered a full 685 HT set from distributor.  After a looong wait, they managed to loan me a new set but of a different colour.  Unfortunately, me son's itchy fingers depressed the tweeters of the 3 speakers the same day.  Imagine my horror when I was quoted $500 bucks (incl labour) to repair the tweeters.  Unbelievable - and was told that it's fixed price by agent.  If not for the awful colour (my view), wld have just taken loaned set and lived with it.   

Darn frustrating experience.  If the fragile tweeter is a problem faced by so many pple, why can't they just change the design.  Or maybe that's the whole point - make it easily spoilable, don't provide warranty and charge an arm/leg for repair.   Was so excited with my B&W purchase but on hindsight, perhaps shld hv gone with the MA instead...

Hi Newdan,
Sorry, we do not have such a case on record.  pls advise if you have purchased from us or the dealer. 

Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on March 09, 2009, 20:22
Hi Wyvern,
I can understand your frustration and believe you have emailed myself and B&W UK on this. 

I believe all parties have apologised to you on this and explained that this is a difficult transitional period where B&W is trying to transfer service support from UK to Asia.  The whole stock movement have to be suspended pending the system (hardware, software, stocks) to be transferred.

This is why no one can commit an earlier delivery date for your replacement of your dented tweeter.

And we anticipated delay, this is why we did not ask you to bring down your unit so that you can still use the speaker (despite the dented tweeter).

We have even told B&W that we will pay priority courier to get this item in and have communicated with them repeatedly on this issue.  Also, I believe you are in communication with Kenny (emails and calls) on this matter.

On the point on the new BMW car with a seat with manufacturing defect, I think B&W should have changed the whole car since its new!  And in that perspective, if you have purchased from us and have had manufacturer defects with the item, we would have changed it even if we did not get support from B&W. 

If you wish to further clarify on your HF issue, pls contact me via email (which you have).  I have also asked B&W to email you directly on this matter.

Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.


Hi Jason,

As I've mentioned, I did not fault TEG at all, knowing that the delay is at B&W end. Like what you've said, TEG had repeatedly reminded them and even offered to pay priority courier for the parts to be delivered (I really appreciate that) but apparently your plea has fallen on deaf ear. By the way B&W did not email me even though you've requested them to do and at end I've also sent an email. They simply bo chap.

To be honest, I'm only frustrated with way B&W handled this minor issue. It would have been solved if they can just dig out a pair of spare tweeters (which I believe they would most likely have, else they can always request their China counterpart to send it over 1st).

By the way, on the BMW car, it would have been too much if my friend asked for the car to be changed when the loose thread on seat does not affect the car's performance.

Anyway, Kenny finally has some good news for me....The stock will come in this week and hopefully, no surprises.

Jason, thanks for the clarifications.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 09, 2009, 20:46
Hi Wyvern,

I need to mention that B&W believes that the people best to handle the customers are the local distriibutors like us.  I think it is not a matter of "bo-chap" but a matter of taking granted that we (the local distributors) can appease local customers while they make the major move to setup a service center in Asia.  I guess, perhaps we have failed in our job and we apologise for it.

I believe you will get a response directly from B&W.  They usually do make a response.  Perhaps the service manager is traveling.

As for your parts, we have placed it as top priority.  We sincerely regret the delay and we will track the shipment once we recieve the AWB number.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on March 09, 2009, 23:09
) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on March 09, 2009, 23:19
Eh... Actually my friend have a similar experience but he managed to get it replace quite soon. In fact, they only ask him to bring unit down for replacement when the parts are in and it took only about a day or two to get it replaced after the parts are in.

Btw, since there are so many discussion on prices here, are there going to be any "recession sales" coming up??  ;D ;D ;D

I also understand from my friend that partial of his charges was waived..... hmmm... my "hardworking" maid have caused some dent marks sometime back, so can i also have partial charges waived??  :P

Anyway, I now backside itchy... thought of upgrading to HT set up. Any bros here have any experience with Denon AVR with B&W? Thinking of 2309.....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on March 09, 2009, 23:52
I love my B&Ws !  What a piece of art !

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3341765872_9cb9372271.jpg?v=0)

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685
16) jayou 2 x 805s (RoseNut) 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 10, 2009, 08:21
I love my B&Ws !  What a piece of art !
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3341765872_9cb9372271.jpg?v=0)

I love the curves *ahemm*

Welcome to the club! You should also consider getting a HTM4S to match this pair of beauties.  ;D

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (Rosenut)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685
16) jayou 2 x 805s (RoseNut) 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2009, 09:23
The 805S are really gorgeous works of art...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: raysusan on March 10, 2009, 09:59
I love my B&Ws !  What a piece of art !

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3341765872_9cb9372271.jpg?v=0)

how much does this pr of speakers worth now?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2009, 10:56
Brand new? I think abt 4k+

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 10, 2009, 12:10
I went to their showroom leh...it costs around $4320...whoops...but then they are selling the 804S = demo = very good condition...but need to check with them again how much would that be..as I'm rushing so no time to ask...anyway they sounds great as well..lolz

Maybe they are B&W so that's the reason why they sounds good..

Brand new? I think abt 4k+


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2009, 12:26
At over 4k IMHO, I feel it is overpriced. If you can accomodate the size, try auditioning the Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1s. Coming from electrostats, which are sadly very unreliable in our weather and humidity, this thing delivers just almost the same level of clarity.

The quality of these speakers are simply amazing and it's often to the amazement of the reviewers why it doesn't cost so much more than it really does. The founder of sixmoons is a convert. As am I.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on March 10, 2009, 13:39
Brand new? I think abt 4k+

I believe the price can be significantly lower if you buy a few pairs in cash.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 10, 2009, 13:43
I believe the price can be significantly lower if you buy a few pairs in cash.  ;)

haha. a few pairs? meaning Mass order? hmmz i am in if what you are saying is significantly lower with cash payment. heheheh  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on March 10, 2009, 14:07
Buyers beware!
Ever since I have owned the 805s, I had many insomnia nights as there seems to be something missing.  If you are into HT as well, you would be asking yourself to get the centre piece of art!  At least the HTM4s.

Even after that, you would want to have a matching speaker stands to go along with these beauties.  Then you ask yourself if your amp is powerful enough to bring the best out of them!

The poison is deep  ;D

I still luv my B&W!

I love the curves *ahemm*
Welcome to the club! You should also consider getting a HTM4S to match this pair of beauties.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2009, 14:11
I believe the price can be significantly lower if you buy a few pairs in cash.  ;)

Second hand prices are abt 3.5k.

How substantial is substantial? ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on March 10, 2009, 14:57
Mhh..after going down for an audition for the B&W speakers...OMG.. have been addicted to the 800 series, esp the 805S and 804S, but it seems that someone said that the 2nd hand would be selling at around $3.5k?

But a new pair only costs me $4K++, just that's only a difference of a few hundreds, might as well get a new pair with fresh warranty?

*Peace of mind without any worries going back to The Experts Group for warranty related issue*<== This is what I think of...

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 10, 2009, 16:51
Hi All,
Maybe this is a good time to clear things up on warranty (and raise another controversy) and let the consumer decide if its worth it to purchase from us, or from authorized source, or from people that claimed to have "2nd alternative source, or from parallels or from 2nd hand stores.

Key notes about B&W warranty:
1) "The warranty is only valid for the original owner. It is not transferable"
2)  "Exclusions may apply"
3) "you will need the original sales invoice or other proof of ownership and date of purchase"
4) "To validate your warranty, you will need to produce the warranty booklet completed and stamped by your dealer on the date of purchase"

Of course we provide some flexibility but this is only limited to our customers since we have their details in our system database.  We regret that we do not have full database of other units not shipped in by us and need supporting documents (and some time) to verify the warranty status.

And for "foreign intervention", we need to have the sales invoice (showing items fully paid and delivered), proof of ownership (eg IC/ID), warranty booklet and the online warranty registration confirmation.

And to answer Music loft (and some customer may have seen this notice in our showroom), if you have purchased your 685 from us, we will:
o   For out-of warranty repair but within warranty period, we will waive 100% of the Evaluation and Service charge.  There will be a 50% discount on parts cost.
o   For out-of warranty repair during out of warranty period, we will waive 50% of the Evaluation and Service charge. 

out-of-warranty = non-manufacturing defects

Basically, what we do is that we do an internal admin to reflect the above waivers as discounts against their last purchase from us.

And to pre-empt the question why only partially waive and not 100% waiver - simply because we need to ask our customers to force their maid to be more careful with their precious B&W.

And for avoidance of doubt, we do provide warranty (at our own costs) for 2nd hand traded-in units that we have resold on behalf of our customers.  You will be unable to register warranty online and you need to keep the sales invoice as record of warranty.  the warranty comes directly from us, not B&W.  ie if it breaks, we do not file claims with B&W and will bear the cost of such repairs. 

on 805 pricing, sigh, this is a complicated matter and involves many parties beyond TEG.

Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on March 10, 2009, 17:33
WOW...OMG..the reply from Jason the GM of The Experts Group (rgd the warranty)...such a long one, might as well just go back to The Experts Group..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2009, 19:18
OMFG SVS FOUNDER POSTS IN XTREMEPLACE ergo must buy from SVS? :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: raysusan on March 10, 2009, 21:16
Brand new? I think abt 4k+


that is alot more $$ compare to the time i bought many years back from alpha audio
any different between the new one compare to those early 805?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 10, 2009, 22:18
that is alot more $$ compare to the time i bought many years back from alpha audio
any different between the new one compare to those early 805?

805 got "upgraded" to signature edition which costs more than regular 805 but includes more expensive wood/finishing.

805S got the nice audio upgrades from the Signature (along with other upgrades) but sans the nice wood/finishings and IIRC, costs the same as regular 805 that it replaced.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 11, 2009, 12:07
Hi,
Just to give some idea on the launched dates of the older 805:
MATRIX 805 - 1991
Nautilus 805 - 1998

Thanks
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: dirtyjack on March 14, 2009, 23:47
Hi bros!

I'm thinking of getting a 2nd hand B&W CM1 but i cant find any in the buy/sell section.
Is there any shop in singapore that sell 2nd hand cm1 in good condition and if i were to buy what are the thing that i need to look out for?

Oh ya!
Will a Cyrus 6vs2 able to drive that speaker?

Thank you very much :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 15, 2009, 01:14
Hi bros!

I'm thinking of getting a 2nd hand B&W CM1 but i cant find any in the buy/sell section.
Is there any shop in singapore that sell 2nd hand cm1 in good condition and if i were to buy what are the thing that i need to look out for?

Oh ya!
Will a Cyrus 6vs2 able to drive that speaker?

Thank you very much :)

hi. yes it will. i am using vs2 to drive my B&W 601 S3. both UK brands matched evenly. CM1 difficult to find 2nd hand. do consider getting a new set. i wouldnt part with my current spks too. as they run in over the years i continues to sound better. i am sure TEG can work out a payment mode for you.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: dirtyjack on March 15, 2009, 12:00
Roughly how much would a new set cost? KEC is selling for around 1.3k++..
Any good shop to recommend? any other how much is TEG selling them?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 15, 2009, 21:33
Roughly how much would a new set cost? KEC is selling for around 1.3k++..
Any good shop to recommend? any other how much is TEG selling them?

new 6vs2 retails at $1450.
CM1 i am not so sure. gotta check with TEG.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on March 16, 2009, 10:07
Roughly how much would a new set cost? KEC is selling for around 1.3k++..
Any good shop to recommend? any other how much is TEG selling them?

To be exact, it should be $1540. For B&W, you dun get any discount because the price is tightly controlled.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 16, 2009, 10:37
To be exact, it should be $1540. For B&W, you dun get any discount because the price is tightly controlled.

hi bro. for discussion sake. like to ask you, how big diff is the CM5 vs your CM1?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: dirtyjack on March 16, 2009, 12:18
hi bro. for discussion sake. like to ask you, how big diff is the CM5 vs your CM1?

price? haha
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 16, 2009, 13:03
Two mths ago, I ordered a full 685 HT set from distributor.  After a looong wait, they managed to loan me a new set but of a different colour.  Unfortunately, me son's itchy fingers depressed the tweeters of the 3 speakers the same day.  Imagine my horror when I was quoted $500 bucks (incl labour) to repair the tweeters.  Unbelievable - and was told that it's fixed price by agent.  If not for the awful colour (my view), wld have just taken loaned set and lived with it.   

Darn frustrating experience.  If the fragile tweeter is a problem faced by so many pple, why can't they just change the design.  Or maybe that's the whole point - make it easily spoilable, don't provide warranty and charge an arm/leg for repair.   Was so excited with my B&W purchase but on hindsight, perhaps shld hv gone with the MA instead...

Hi Newdan,
We have checked and understand that your quotations and purchase were from KEC and your "loong wait" is with KEC and not us.

To avoid any miscommunication, pls vist our showroom on your repair.  We prefer not to have "intermediaries"  to avoid misunderstanding and unhappiness. 

This is why we do not allow our dealers to handle aftersales.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 16, 2009, 14:11
hi bro. for discussion sake. like to ask you, how big diff is the CM5 vs your CM1?

Hi DJQ,
There is performance variance due mainly to the size of cabinet and size of drivers.
CM1 vs CM5 = 686 vs 685, in terms of size.  CM5 also have a lower range of sound vs CM1.

And as usual, yes, you pay more but you also get more.

Cheers
jason

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 16, 2009, 19:32
Hi Newdan,
We have checked and understand that your quotations and purchase were from KEC and your "loong wait" is with KEC and not us.

To avoid any miscommunication, pls vist our showroom on your repair.  We prefer not to have "intermediaries"  to avoid misunderstanding and unhappiness. 

This is why we do not allow our dealers to handle aftersales.

Regards
jason

I may be an atypical consumer, but if I buy gear from a dealer I am familiar with, I tend to go back to that same dealer, either out of familiarity or because of convenience of the sale location. That's why most products have a distribution network.

How that dealer then takes it up with the distributor should be transparent to me. And blaming the dealer openly IMHO doesn't solve the problem. I managed a sales office in the UK in the past, and whether it is my company or a partner company that is responsible for a customer issue, I accept the responsibility and apologize to the customer on our behalf. Then try to solve the issue.



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 17, 2009, 16:22
Hi Doggie Howser,

I understand that consumer does not know what happens behind the scene most of the time.  And I understand that consumer's problem is priority.  This is why in the beginning, we have asked Newdan to contact us.

Until Newdan comes to us, we really cannot help Newdan further.

My rationale is simple, if we have done something wrong like committing to the wrong orders/time, we will compensate customer even if it mean losses. 

However, If we have been blamed for something that we have not done (which in this case, it is mentioned the "distributor" delayed the repair for long time), then we need to address/clarify the issue.  In the first place, we have never had a request for 3 tweeters to be repaired before and we have never loaned any systems out.

If we do not clarify, then it becomes a permanent bad record on this message board and people reading it have the wrong idea that this is how we handles B&W repairs.

Also, I strongly believe that the ultimate damage of such complains is not just the distributor but also affects the B&W's brand image. This is why we have always come forward to clarify any misconception.

And yes, behind the scene, we will (And already has) talked to KEC to clear this issue.  But our position remains (since Feb 2008), to avoid miscommunications, it is better that we settle all the aftersales directly with end-consumer.  Then really, consumer can only blame us (and me) if something goes wrong and we will not be seen as trying to blame others.

Thanks
jason


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 17, 2009, 16:26
Hi all,
Panorama have arrived in the showroow!
B&W's website have also been updated to reflect the product's specifications.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=4118&sc=ht


Regards
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 17, 2009, 18:10
aw.. no HDMI... whatever happened to DTS-HD MA and Dobly TrueHD???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 17, 2009, 19:24
Sample letter I would have written in the capacity of  MD of my sales office in the past:

IMHO similar content and results without assigning blame. IMHO the distribution network is also part of my company.

Quote
Dear Mr Newdan

I am sorry to learn of your plight recently and I apologize for the inconvenience you have been through during this period.

There may have been some miscommunication and I assure you that as the distributor of a premium product like B&W, we would always strive to stock replacement components to ensure situations such as yours do not occur.

In order to expedite the repair, I strongly urge that you contact me directly  at the number provided below so that I can personally make sure your case is expedited accordingly.

I would also like to emphasize that we have also provided instructions to all our dealers to let them be aware of how to handle such situations in the future to ensure our customers' are not inconvenienced. 



Your sincerely
Jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: CASH on March 17, 2009, 20:18
a very professional approach and reply indeed, Doggie Howser!
very aptly put.
Cheer's!  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: newdan on March 17, 2009, 22:05
Hi Doggie Howser, agree with your comments and tks for the draft reply - very impressive and professional.  Your customer service approach, in my view, out-shine that of Ron Kaufman!

hi Jason - just to be clear, I am not "blaming" KEC or TEG.  Was venting my disappointment on the product fragility and the high cost of post-sales in-warranty repair.  I may have mis-used the distributor/dealer terminology but then again am just a lay end-consumer who bought a product from a shop that provided a good service (KEC in this case).  Who am I to know the intricate dealer-distributor relationship(s) behind the scenes?

Also, the long wait was referring to the product arrival (not repairs).  Waited more than 2 mths for the speakers after placing deposit and KEC has kindly temporarily loaned me a new set as soon as they received one (while still waiting some more for the colour of my choice).  The slightly damaged set - I am not supposed to keep it so no point going to you directly for repair. 

Let me try to sort it out with KEC first (still waiting for their response).  Being fairly new to hifi hobby, had hope to build good longer term relationships, be it with dealers or distributors - if product is good, there is always the intention to add-on or upgrade and to seek advice from you "experts".  Tks for looking into it and hopefully, we could work out an amicable resolution between various parties.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Milo300 on March 17, 2009, 22:17
I was at KEC this evening to test the 685 with HTM62 and 686 pairing up with Denon AVR2309. Seems this combination is pretty good. Tried with Onkyo but still prefers Denon. However I find the center a bit too big.

Can I match with M1 as cen? As I will be putting on my console in front of my TV.

I had asked and was told that they have stock available for 805s - all colors and HTM4 and DS3.

ok.. back on track, can I go for the M1 as cen instead of HTM62 although the 62 cen is much more better but space contraints... Anyone??
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 17, 2009, 23:14
:) Thanks for the feedback guys.. wasn't easy trying to hammer out the reply on the iphone using the twiddly onscreen keyboard. And considering it was during dinner, wife wasn't particularly happy with my split attention either. hehe

In any case, tt's not easy being in customer service. It does require a certain aptitude. It's one of the reasons (among many others) why I quit that job in the end :P and ended up being a lowly engineer.

But some of the training I received during the course of that job kinda stays.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Zan_45 on March 18, 2009, 00:58
Hi,

Like to check whether B&W soundbar is available here and what is the price we are looking at? Any review on the soundbar?

Thanks

Zan
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 18, 2009, 01:50
I was at KEC this evening to test the 685 with HTM62 and 686 pairing up with Denon AVR2309. Seems this combination is pretty good. Tried with Onkyo but still prefers Denon. However I find the center a bit too big.

Can I match with M1 as cen? As I will be putting on my console in front of my TV.

I had asked and was told that they have stock available for 805s - all colors and HTM4 and DS3.

ok.. back on track, can I go for the M1 as cen instead of HTM62 although the 62 cen is much more better but space contraints... Anyone??

there is nothin you can or cannot do. since space is a factor just go ahead and get the M1. but only at a later stage will you find the center speaker role makes a real difference. for you its a learning stage which you go thru. we have to go thru some choices one way or another to get it "right". its not a matching role, do yourself justice by listening to both setup before you decide. M1 with 685/686 or htm62 with 685/686.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on March 18, 2009, 10:35
I was at KEC this evening to test the 685 with HTM62 and 686 pairing up with Denon AVR2309. Seems this combination is pretty good. Tried with Onkyo but still prefers Denon. However I find the center a bit too big.

Can I match with M1 as cen? As I will be putting on my console in front of my TV.

I had asked and was told that they have stock available for 805s - all colors and HTM4 and DS3.

ok.. back on track, can I go for the M1 as cen instead of HTM62 although the 62 cen is much more better but space contraints... Anyone??

I have 2X front 685s and 1X HTM62 paired with a Denon 2809.

I would not recommend changing the center to the M1s.  The center makes a huge difference with the B&W set up and it is worth both the price and space constraint.

I actually thought of putting my Pioneer on top of the HTM62, but (1) the base was too large and (2) I was afraid what the weight would do to the speaker!.  The HTM61 is large enough to hold up the TV though.

BTW, if you are looking at the HTM62, then you shouldn't even consider the M1s.  They are worlds apart in sound quality.  Just try your best to make room for the HTMs.




Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 18, 2009, 10:39
Hi,

Like to check whether B&W soundbar is available here and what is the price we are looking at? Any review on the soundbar?

Thanks

Zan

you talking about this?
Panorama ? B&W's website have also been updated to reflect the product's specifications.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=4118&sc=ht
TEG sells them, but price have to go check it out.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 18, 2009, 12:43
Sample letter I would have written in the capacity of  MD of my sales office in the past:

IMHO similar content and results without assigning blame. IMHO the distribution network is also part of my company.


Hi D.Howser
Thanks for the advise and sample letter.  However, I need to raise the point that we simply clarified who is the one that Newdan is waiting for.

In any case, Perhaps I over-reacted as I perhaps co-related too much.

Apologies.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 18, 2009, 13:00
Hi Doggie Howser, agree with your comments and tks for the draft reply - very impressive and professional.  Your customer service approach, in my view, out-shine that of Ron Kaufman!

hi Jason - just to be clear, I am not "blaming" KEC or TEG.  Was venting my disappointment on the product fragility and the high cost of post-sales in-warranty repair.  I may have mis-used the distributor/dealer terminology but then again am just a lay end-consumer who bought a product from a shop that provided a good service (KEC in this case).  Who am I to know the intricate dealer-distributor relationship(s) behind the scenes?

Also, the long wait was referring to the product arrival (not repairs).  Waited more than 2 mths for the speakers after placing deposit and KEC has kindly temporarily loaned me a new set as soon as they received one (while still waiting some more for the colour of my choice).  The slightly damaged set - I am not supposed to keep it so no point going to you directly for repair. 

Let me try to sort it out with KEC first (still waiting for their response).  Being fairly new to hifi hobby, had hope to build good longer term relationships, be it with dealers or distributors - if product is good, there is always the intention to add-on or upgrade and to seek advice from you "experts".  Tks for looking into it and hopefully, we could work out an amicable resolution between various parties.


Hi Newdan,
Thanks for clarifying.

However, on the point of long wait of your orders, perhaps I will offend again by being sounding too "un-customer focused", it seems that you are suggesting that we are the cause of the long wait.  I must say that you are raising a highly complex issue which involves some "intricate dealer-distri" working procedure; timing of your order vs dealer vs our eventual meeting of production cut-offs; what have been committed to you vs what we have committed to KEC; etc. 

As I said, if we have committed to a particular delivery time-frame and misses it, we will "compensate" the customer (some of the guys out there will know).  If our dealers have committed basing on our commitments, then similarly, we will compensate for such failed delivery.  You can ask KEC to file the claim with us.

In fact, we are highly conservative on committing to delivery time.

As per my PM to you, do consider to come directly to us so that we can resolve this for you and I always prefer direct communication so that there is no confusion/miscommunication.  And quite frankly, when it comes to aftersales, I do not see any reason why we cannot help you more then our dealer.

While sounding controversial/arrogant/cocky at times, I/we do step up to resolve/compensate when it is a matter of our fault.

Thanks
jason

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 18, 2009, 13:09
Panorama lists at $3200 before GST.

1 feature not mentioned in the website is that the DSP allow "some basic adjustments" to match room configurations.  This is only mentioned in the owner's manual.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 18, 2009, 13:12
aw.. no HDMI... whatever happened to DTS-HD MA and Dobly TrueHD???

Hi DJQ,
Sorry, there is no HD audio-codecs as it is believed that if you want HD codecs, then you want the highest sound quality and a standard 5.1/7.1 speaker system will better match your needs.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 18, 2009, 15:15
Hi DJQ,
Sorry, there is not HD audio-codecs as it is believed that if you want HD codecs, then you want the highest sound quality and a standard 5.1/7.1 speaker system will better match your needs.

Thanks
jason

not a problem. i believe the Panaroma serves a different market segment.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: vieri on March 18, 2009, 15:56
I have 2X front 685s and 1X HTM61 paired with a Denon 2809.

I would not recommend changing the center to the M1s.  The center makes a huge difference with the B&W set up and it is worth both the price and space constraint.

I actually thought of putting my Pioneer on top of the HTM61, but (1) the base was too large and (2) I was afraid what the weight would do to the speaker!.  The HTM62 is large enough to hold up the TV though.

BTW, if you are looking at the HTM62, then you shouldn't even consider the M1s.  They are worlds apart in sound quality.  Just try your best to make room for the HTMs.



Hi
Was wondering if i should get the HTM61 center speaker to compliment my M1 sats. Any feedback will be much appreciated.

Cheers
Vieri
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on March 18, 2009, 19:04
Hi
Was wondering if i should get the HTM61 center speaker to compliment my M1 sats. Any feedback will be much appreciated.

Cheers
Vieri

Haha, first time I've ever heard of this set up.  Can't give an opinion on that, but you should try to audition them then.

No point upping the game with a center speaker when you main sats are not of the same quality?  That's only my opinion though.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 19, 2009, 10:33
Hi Vieri,

While we will be happy to sell you the HTM61, I believe it will be best that you hear the combination at our showroom before you decide to purchase.

While it will greatly enhance your cinematic effect since you will have good 3-way speaker for the center, few Issues that you need to consider:

1) Size of drivers = (in simple terms) different "size of the sound
2) 3 way speakers for center vs 2 way for front left/right.
3) others issues like sensitivity, power handling etc.

Finally, it all depends if you like it that way.  Some of us can't even tell the difference.

Cheers
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: vieri on March 19, 2009, 10:58
Hi Vieri,

While we will be happy to sell you the HTM61, I believe it will be best that you hear the combination at our showroom before you decide to purchase.

While it will greatly enhance your cinematic effect since you will have good 3-way speaker for the center, few Issues that you need to consider:

1) Size of drivers = (in simple terms) different "size of the sound
2) 3 way speakers for center vs 2 way for front left/right.
3) others issues like sensitivity, power handling etc.

Finally, it all depends if you like it that way.  Some of us can't even tell the difference.

Cheers
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.


Jason Hi
Much appreciated. Will drop by the showroom for some auditioning soon.

Cheers
Vieri
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on March 20, 2009, 09:16
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S (coming soon)
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry) pending delivery
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge) (ETA within 90 days)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s pending delivery
6) TYF : 2xCM1 (planning to upgrade to 685)
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s (ETA 90 days)
 bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black) pending delivery
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 20, 2009, 10:25
Pls allow me to clean the list alittle bit (since delivery should have been recieved):

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
8) bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 20, 2009, 10:51
Just to inform the B&W community of recent new awards by various B&W products.

AV Review Award (voted for by the writers of AV Review)
- Zeppelin wins Best iPod dock
- 685 won best speakers under £1000

What HiFi? Sound & Vision
- 685 Product of the Year (second year running)
- PV1 Product of the Year (second year running)
- 685  Theatre Product of the Year
- MT30 Best Style Speaker Package over £1000 (third year running)
- ASW610 Best Subwoofer under £500
- Zeppelin Best Premium iPod® Speaker Dock

Stuff Magazine Awards
- Zeppelin Best Audio Product

T3 Magazine Awards 
- Zeppelin Highly Commended Drop-dead Gorgeous Award

EISA Award
- EUROPEAN Sound Station 2008-2009

And also, B&W's website have a new blog section with 4 menus for blogs - Sound Blog, The Lab, High Fidelity and The Insider.  Each section has articles that not only comment on sound and music but also the various technological innovations happening in the audio world as well as articles from some of our Fellows.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on March 21, 2009, 01:36
Just added ASW610 to my system today......

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on March 21, 2009, 02:02
Am thinking of getting a pair of speaker stands for my 685. Any bros here have any lobang for the B&W "replica" stands? Or something that look similar to the original?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 23, 2009, 02:53
Mhh...lobang for your 685 stands? better buy the original one...so that matches your B&W speakers..Prestige look...lolz..just like Jaguar that pairs with B&W....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chin.andrew38 on March 23, 2009, 02:54
Wow you guys are proud owner of B&W speakers, wondering when I can have my own..

Just added ASW610 to my system today......

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: infernosix on March 23, 2009, 12:55
I've added mine to the list... I'm still eyeing the htm4s...

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: raysusan on March 24, 2009, 09:25
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 24, 2009, 11:24
wah Damn. it seems there is alot of ppl going for 805S. oh man!!!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: rahul on March 26, 2009, 00:16

1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on March 27, 2009, 17:12
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s x 2 pairs, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
d) Petetherock: 805s
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 27, 2009, 18:01
wah Pete also got the 805s ah! damn. :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 27, 2009, 22:15
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
d) Petetherock: 805s
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: btzq on March 28, 2009, 22:41
hi all...
  I am new to HT and I have been looking from Anthony Gallo Micros to B&W. But I still decided to go for bookshelf speakers cos I listen more to music. i am looking at the b&w 685 speakers (budget of 1000)... does anyone know which AVR to match with? Is the Marantz 5003 ok?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on March 29, 2009, 01:00
hi all...
  I am new to HT and I have been looking from Anthony Gallo Micros to B&W. But I still decided to go for bookshelf speakers cos I listen more to music. i am looking at the b&w 685 speakers (budget of 1000)... does anyone know which AVR to match with? Is the Marantz 5003 ok?

if you are really going more to music suggest you get a stereo amp instead. of coz with HT in mind, Marantz AVR is 70%music/ 30%HT. Denon more all rounder with 50%/50% music/HT. are you looking into Stereo setup or theatre 5.1setup?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: btzq on March 29, 2009, 01:33
thanks for the reply :)
I do have HT in mind for the future, but right now its just a stereo setup with 2x 685s. In the future when budget allows, I will look into having a centre speaker.. I chose Marantz because I will be listening to a lot of music but there will be times where I will want to watch movies as well.

I read that I will also need a sub if I were to watch movies but that will have to wait though... :) can't wait to join the B&W family.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on April 05, 2009, 13:53
Sorry if a bit OT, but went to audition the 804s recently at the sole distributor.

I was very surprised when I asked for a discount and they gave me 5 % off, then told me the price quoted is without GST and "generously" waived the $75 delivery charge. So after all discount, the speaker is even more expensive than before I asked for discount.

OK, for the GST, lets put it as miscommunication. But for the delivery charge ..... Sorry for being blunt, but I've been in this hobby for 18 years, and save for bulky low cost items (like stands and racks), I've never heard of a delivery charge for equipment, especially one this big.  :P



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 05, 2009, 15:56
IMHO you can get very very good speakers in the 800 series price range. They may not be as well advertised.

:) both my father in law and I have been pleasantly surprised when we started looking for our own setups.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 05, 2009, 23:54
IMHO you can get very very good speakers in the 800 series price range. They may not be as well advertised.

:) both my father in law and I have been pleasantly surprised when we started looking for our own setups.

care to share what surprises???  8)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 00:20
We ended up with Gallo Reference 3.1 and Thiel CS2.4 in the end :)

I was testing his Gallo earlier this evening, using the SPL meter to adjust his Reference SA amp. I think his speakers also not fully run in, cos he uses very low listening levels and the woofer driver also isn't as articulate as it could be. There was bass but a bit muddy and overpowering for some tracks. Reminded me of the UE11 IEMs. Was initially unusable while running in. But after running in, the bass really tightened up..

If budgets stretched further, can also consider the Martin Logan range (made in USA models were much better than the MIC models even though the parts are sourced from China and US), provided you didn't mind the possible maintenance for electrostatics.

But I think I am digressing.. this is the B&W owners' thread.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on April 06, 2009, 00:54
I actually preferred the Thiel 2.4 in the audition. Problem is wife remarked that the 2.4 is too visually imposing compared to the 804. She also mentioned that the 804 has a more easy going sound compared to the 2.4 which she felt was too bright.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on April 06, 2009, 08:34
I actually preferred the Thiel 2.4 in the audition. Problem is wife remarked that the 2.4 is too visually imposing compared to the 804. She also mentioned that the 804 has a more easy going sound compared to the 2.4 which she felt was too bright.
Your wife's comment is valid in my opinion, but if comparing showrooms, think TEG has a better setup with more expensive classe amps. :)
The setup in TEG at Lavender is pretty neat for rock/pop.. very warm smoothing mids.

But I would say the B&Ws are not as well rounded for all genres of music.
When I asked if they had any classical concert cds to audition, they only had one!
Goes to show you the typical type of music most people prefer the B&Ws with.

But I have to say the CM series sounds quite different from the 8 series to me, and sounds brighter in nature.
Did not really give it much of an audition though.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 06, 2009, 09:17
We ended up with Gallo Reference 3.1 and Thiel CS2.4 in the end :)

I was testing his Gallo earlier this evening, using the SPL meter to adjust his Reference SA amp. I think his speakers also not fully run in, cos he uses very low listening levels and the woofer driver also isn't as articulate as it could be. There was bass but a bit muddy and overpowering for some tracks. Reminded me of the UE11 IEMs. Was initially unusable while running in. But after running in, the bass really tightened up..

If budgets stretched further, can also consider the Martin Logan range (made in USA models were much better than the MIC models even though the parts are sourced from China and US), provided you didn't mind the possible maintenance for electrostatics.

But I think I am digressing.. this is the B&W owners' thread.



oops. i was half expecting you in comment about B&W range of speakers. there was once you did commented on the 8series. anything you can share on that? you ever audited one?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 09:57
I actually preferred the Thiel 2.4 in the audition. Problem is wife remarked that the 2.4 is too visually imposing compared to the 804. She also mentioned that the 804 has a more easy going sound compared to the 2.4 which she felt was too bright.

I think in my living room even with outriggers the 2.4s don't look too imposing ;) I did have to use a smaller projected image because I wanted to give the speakers more room to breathe... you are welcome to come over when I have properly run it in :P expect a few months at least to get the metal drivers properly loosened up though..

If you use the regular spikes or no spikes at all (just use some damping pads as one reviewer did), it should sound just as good and be less obstrusive. I used the outriggers because well, they were bundled :P and cos I don't want the maid to accidentally shove a mop that close to the gorgeous finish :P

oops. i was half expecting you in comment about B&W range of speakers. there was once you did commented on the 8series. anything you can share on that? you ever audited one?

The 800 series (think it was an 802) that my friend has a very warm mellow sound. It would appeal to those who like tubes, I think. And works particularly well with female vocalists, which ironically is one of my usual playlist genre :) It is quite good at softening the edginess in recordings, especially not so well mastered ones.

The Thiels on the other hand, are more revealing. My friend calls it "critical". :) I call it clarity. And there is a lot of clarity in the Thiels. So if there are nuances and details in the music, the Thiels will reveal them. If there are flaws... well, the Thiels will reveal them too.

While the B&Ws make me lie back and doze off with the warm comfort, the Thiels keep me awake and attentive and I can pick out the background vocals.. the layers, the instruments, the transients and dynamics of each instrument.. Personally, I like details. If I go to a concert, it may be because of the lead vocalist, but her whole ensemble is there, and the whole (the background vocalists, the guitarist, the strings, etc etc) IMHO is more than just the sum of the parts. I am always amazed by how well strings come across in a very complex passage on the Thiels where they'd be partially hidden on the B&Ws by the lead vocals, for instance.

The other difference is in the bass reproduction. As I mentioned in other threads, this is where my running in is still incomplete (40+ hours of moderate levels.. Thiel recommends 100+! at higher than moderate levels!). But in the showroom, I always loved how taut and detailed the bass was in the Thiels. They are not "boomy" and they don't shake the walls at the same listening levels, but there's a lot of extension and there's a lot of detail. It's a bit like the difference between an un-EQd subwoofer and a Re-EQd one. W/O EQ, the bass is stronger, because there are some boosts, but there's no resolution and tautness.

I think both are good speakers but they come from two different schools of design. There are no right and wrong answers here.

But IMHO, if there is one flaw.. it is that the B&Ws are overpriced in Singapore.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 11:26
Hi,

To reply to some points from earlier posts:

1) Miscommunication on GST
We regret this and apologise for this. 

As a precaution, we have indicated this on the price stands but regret that when the showroom are swamped or when there are multiple changes to hook-ups, I believe there are still chances that miscommunication happens.

We apologise for this.

2) Only 1 Classical CD in our showroom.
I regret that is perhaps misunderstood.  Also, it greatly depends on how "classical" is defined.  We admit we have limited tracks of Chinese Classical but have multiple Audiophile CD with Western/European Classicals.
We do not have complete range of CD but lacking in CD does not mean we have something to hide.  B&W speakers have nothing to hide.  And when it comes to sound, it's always a matter of preference.  What is lacking in B&W, could be prefered by another.  We always ask customer to bring your own CD if you want your prefered demo.

3) B&W being "overpriced"
I think this have been discussed many times.  We have brought down the price by 10% in 2009 but regretably this still does not meet the needs of all customer.  Regretably, we need and is required to maintain certain premium positioning for the brand.
Similarly, it is arguable that Mercedes or BMW cars are overpriced by pricing more than $40k above open market value.  Ultimately, they similarly need to maintain a premium positioning.  If Mercedes is priced like a Toyota, I guess many of their former owners will frown and dispose of their cars.  Yes, they will win some new customer when they lost some.  In the end, it will be what balance the brand want to achieve.

And I think in the past i have said this, if you think you need special pricing because you are a repeat and supportive customer, then pls tell the sales person this is not the first time you are purchasing and he will go talk to someone.

But if you do not wish to even discuss pricing with us, then regrettably, there is nothing much we can do.

We need to strike a balance and in the balance, we look at win-win situation.  Several "old" customer already know this and some non-customers" are just beginning to understand this.

Thanks
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 12:53
No offence Jason but if I had to make comparisons to cars, I'd compare the Thiels to a Ferrari with beautiful hand crafted finishes and as revealing of the driver's ability :)

The Gallos are more avant garde almost industrial designs not unlike a Lambo.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 13:33
Hi Doggie,
Sorry, but the car reference is not on the design but more on the pricing/positioning.  And I prefer not to go into details on discussion on design/specifications like Thiel 2.4 being 4 ohms (B&W are 8 ohms) and compared more to 804/3 then to 802.   And (sorry that i gave in to temptation) to mention that 802d won a 20/20 rating by Hifi-News.

Really, when you go into model by model comparison, there is no clear winner cos really, its up to individual (and reviewers) preference in performance/styling/price/positioning - I am more into Mercedes/Aston Martin/Hummer then Ferrari/Lambo.  That in no way mean that Ferrari/Lambo are not the best cars in their own ways.

When we go into design, 800/1/2 and 800 series also have many winning features.  And believe the NAUTILUS still stands (after 10 long years) as one of the most forth-front in terms of designs .  And yes, we do have customer that do not like the designs.  But that does not mean they are in any way unappreciative of good designs/sounds.  We respect each person's choice/preference.

My stand is simple - (sorry, lost to temptation to market again) while B&W speakers are endorsed by Abbey Road and other famous studios , this in no way means that any other speakers/brand are inferior.  There are really no "worse of" speakers, just different in performance and how that match to your individual needs in sound/prestige/budget reflects how good the speaker is to

One thing that will never change is that B&W will always remain as a premium brand and the brand is a clear reflection on the owners.  We cannot deal a disfavour to all the B&W owners by down grading the brand.

Cheers
jason

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on April 06, 2009, 14:11
Jason,

Thanks for replying and good to see your involvement in this forum.

I respect the decision on the pricing (which I believe was not mentioned in my post) regarding the mark-up which is your prerogative as dealer - you are not forcing anyone to buy from you after all. But could you clarify why there is a $75 delivery charge when most dealers don't charge this ?

To avoid any misunderstanding, I am not an old customer, and I am not trying to seek any form of further discounts etc by bringing this up. I am just expressing my surprise at some of the business practices, because it is the norm of most if not all dealers to provide FOC delivery for expensive purchases (unless you feel that the 804s is a small purchase) and to quote price incl. of GST. After all, it was quite obvious to your saleman that I am a local and not looking for price on export basis etc. Frankly, its better for you just to quote your list with GST and then state that price includes GST and to deduct off for export. Would go a long way to avoid such misunderstandings.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 14:17
I think both Gallo and Thiels have also won their fair share of acclaims both of which have been compared to speakers that are several classes (priceband wise) above ;)

But I used some reservation as well and I am sure more resourceful readers can find these glowing reviews w/o any help from me.

I am also a little surprosed you would consider an Aston ;) in the same breath as a Merc or a Hummer. An Aston is notoriously unreliable (far worse than a Ferrari since the F360 days) and is often considered overpriced compared to a Porsche 911 (see Top Gear for more comparisons) ;) ironic, I guess

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 14:31
Hi Doggie H,
While I mention the 3 brands of car that I like, I never say they are the same.
Aston Martin is still loved for its design, class and brand history.  No matter what the historical problems are (as long as they can fix it) and no matter what car reviewers says, it remains one of my real love...other then my wife also (in case she is reading - "dear, u are more impt then my car)...

like sound, cars are more about passion/preference then technical specs - every car can reach 100km/h, just a matter of how fast it can do it and if you ever dared to try it.  While my friends will call me mad, I still stick to my choice - Aston Martin (and yes, its over-priced in singapore too..)... but still liking Aston Martin does not mean I am any less resourceful or any less sane.

ha, anyway, we are digressing...this B&W owners thread?...gotto to create an Aston Martin thread.

Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 06, 2009, 15:56
err. ok guys. this is xtremeplace forum being HomeTheatre and Hifi. not Cars. lets not deviate over too much. anyway i only asked for comments on B&W 8series thats all. its ok. everyones got their own preference. lets leave it at that. thank you all.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 06, 2009, 15:57
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
d) Petetherock: 805s

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on April 06, 2009, 18:40
DJQ,

If it helps, I am a long time Thiel owner myself (1.2) and am very familiar with their products, sound, strengths and weaknesses.

I have certain comments on the 804s that I auditioned.

Tonally the balance is quite warm. Driven by the very expensive Classe equipment, I find the balance quite thick and on fast music, the bass and midrange tends to become a bit congested. The high frequency from the tweeter though is clearly extended but the balance seems a bit out of place with the mid and lows. Maybe the speaker I heard has not been run in yet. Interestingly, when driven with the Arcam FMJ equipment, the tonal balance was closer to neutral but there was a loss on low frequency grunt and control during loud passages.

Doggie is quite right in his comments on Thiel. The tonal balance is fairly different, so I think people will end up preferring one over the other.

When my wife says that the B&W is more palatable in the long run, I know exactly where she is coming from. Because of the Thiel's tendency to show up the strengths (and weaknesses unfortunately) of the recording, source and amp, a lot of care is needed in choosing the equipment. Any many of my poorly recorded albums showed up as such.... Eventually, I ended up with another system to play those discs.

oops. i was half expecting you in comment about B&W range of speakers. there was once you did commented on the 8series. anything you can share on that? you ever audited one?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 06, 2009, 20:30
Wow!! This is getting very interesting.

On design, in my personal opinion, the Thiel looks like "box fan" while the B&W Nautilus looks like a "snail".

But to my surprise, the B&W signature diamond have book looks and performance. Anyone here auditioned the signature diamond?

Aside to Doggie Howser, why are you so actively promoting Thiel on this B&W thread??  ???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 21:06
Aside to Doggie Howser, why are you so actively promoting Thiel on this B&W thread??  ???

In case you hadn't noticed, I also own B&Ws :) I was not aware that the purpose of this thread was to form an MAS (mutual admiration society, something my old GP tutor coined up ;)) I thought that the purpose of the forum was for sharing.

In any case, I was also in the market to upgrade my old 600 series a couple of months ago when I started getting seriously into hifi, and naturally contemplated the B&W's higher range as a first consideration. When watchdog recounted his experiences, it was not entirely unfamiliar to most other forummers :) and I just pointed out that there are always other alternatives. Had bro DJQ not asked me for my personal impressions, I would not have bothered to post other brands.

The only real issue I had is that TEG seems to subscribe to the belief that premium pricing is the only way to determine a product's exclusivity (aka BMW/Merc) and considered other brands to be low end like Toyota (his words not mine). I merely pointed out that for the same price as a comparable B&W (or even less), you can have a lot of other alternatives for consideration. In fact, because of the premium pricing, the B&W models end up competing with "higher" grade models of a competing brand in Singapore, whereas in other countries where such premium pricing is not practiced, they may have been pitched with a lower model.

(going by the same car analogy, BMW's pricing vis a vis their cost structure is also surprisingly reasonable these days... so I guess the same inference could be made for speakers)

FWIW, I am not "hung up" on any one brand either. I also considered Gallo Reference 3.1 and had circumstances been different, I could just as likely have ended up getting the Gallo (which my father-in-law did end up purchasing). We both also auditioned the Martin Logan Vista, which we both also liked tremendously but didn't consider because of other reasons, among which was the maintenance of electrostatic panels (having had to service the Quad ESLs every couple of years for the last 20 years or so) :)

See, I am not a brand junkie. Are you? :P

(tongue firmly in cheek)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 21:12
Hi Watchdog,

Actually I am a bit surprised with your description, as the usual comments from customer is the revers, FMJ being "warmer" while Classe being too analytical/clean and tends to show more then needed.

Just to check, did you mention your concerns to the salesperson so that he can make adjustments?  My guess is not.  Perhaps you want to drop by again with a better trained sales person to discuss this.  

Maybe its have to do with the cables.  Perhaps its time that we re-evaluated the systems.  Will talk to the salesperson to see what was being hooked up during demo last week. Something for us to explore.  

Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on April 06, 2009, 21:19
Are the FMJ amps the ones in the front of the listening room? Next to the 804/805s?
Cos if they are.. I also recall that the sound from those are brighter and more towards neutral, whereas I felt the classe lended more warmth to the system and thickness to the lower mids, but with more finesse and control.
Last I visited was maybe 2 weeks ago?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 06, 2009, 21:23
Hi Watchdog,

Actually I am a bit surprised with your description, as the usual comments from customer is the revers, FMJ being "warmer" while Classe being too analytical/clean and tends to show more then needed.

Just to check, did you mention your concerns to the salesperson so that he can make adjustments?  My guess is not.  Perhaps you want to drop by again with a better trained sales person to discuss this.  

Maybe its have to do with the cables.  Perhaps its time that we re-evaluated the systems.  Will talk to the salesperson to see what was being hooked up during demo last week. Something for us to explore.  

Cheers
jason

eh.... seems like in B&W thread, digressing to discussion between arcam and classe.....  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 21:37
Hi Doggie,
 I think there is a mis-understanding of what I mean by premium and branding.

When I mentioned premium branding, its a reflection of many elements of
- B&W's 40+year heritage;
- brand achievements of many "industry firsts" like the first to use Kevlar, FST, Nautilus tubes tweeters;
- brand philosophy of creating uncolored/neutral speakers;
- brand establishments in delivering quality products to the consumer; Many brands are simply small factories that have poor quality control.
- brand prestige and pride of ownership etc.  
This is the same as other premium brands (eg Mercedes also represent more then just an expensive cars).

When you buy into a brand, you are buying into a family of elements that make up the brand.  It embodies al the good quality and it reflects on the user.

And to correct your point, B&W's premium brandings have been prescribed by B&W and not created by TEG (regretably, we are not that powerful).  We are smply following the global branding strategy and this gives owners pride in owning a B&W.

And sorry to say, but BMW is overpriced.  Being in and out of car showroom and having a friend that just bought a BMW that don't even have folding side mirror despite the premium price.  It's perhaps the most over priced car in the local market now.

And the most value for money now is perhaps the 2009 Cerato but does owning a Cerato gives you the same pride as a BMW (depsite not having folding side-mirror?  And Cerato have much more feature and you can perhaps buy 2x Cerato.

oops sorry, I am talking about cars again. Sorry DJQ.

Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 21:44
Are the FMJ amps the ones in the front of the listening room? Next to the 804/805s?
Cos if they are.. I also recall that the sound from those are brighter and more towards neutral, whereas I felt the classe lended more warmth to the system and thickness to the lower mids, but with more finesse and control.
Last I visited was maybe 2 weeks ago?

Hi Quest,
The electronics next to 804/5 are Carat Branded (French brand).  Yes, these are brighter then Classe and FMJ.  And yes, Classe have much better control.

Carat is more mid-priced but does uses premium components like Burr-Brown.

As for Tonal balance, I will not comment as it really does not matter what I says. 

Actually, we rarely connect FMJ to 800 series unless requested.  And we usually does not leave the FMJ in the 800 series room.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 06, 2009, 21:52
You mean B&W's philosphy is to create neutral speaker? Never knew this before.....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 21:55
I think Jason keeps confusing pricing with value.

No one is comparing the B&W to a lower end marque or model :) in fact, most of us tend to be looking at comparable price/performance models (as elsewhere in the world). So the comparison to a Kia/Toyota is completely off base.

Since you keep harping on the car analogy..

Here's why I think the BMW cars are now good value.

http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/onemotoring/en/lta_information_guidelines/buy_a_new_vehicle/car_cost.MainPar.0047.File.tmp/Car_Cost_Update.pdf

The BMW 320 costs Performance Motors about 83k and they were selling it for 110k (it was in the newspapers a couple of weeks ago).

The Audi A4 1.8T on the other hand costs Premium Automobiles only 83k but they are charging 140k for it.

Now, please note, I am comparing similar categories of cars. Not a Toyota or Kia against a BMW, but two premium German marques with the same level of experience and tradition yadda yadda yadda..

Between these two, I'd say the Audi is overpriced and the BMW is better value for money.

ps my choice of best bang is the 130i (101k cost and they were selling it for 124k last weekend before any bargaining).
;)

OK OK bro DJQ, I know this has gotten off base enough, but I was a huge car nut even before I got into hifi..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 22:14
for those eyeing Audi, you can get it at 110+k and audi allow deeper trade-in of old cars. Just press harder. trust me.its proven.

Hi Doggie,
I think this is beginning to seem argumentative and sorry if I seem confused.  so I rest my case (and cars).  And why cars, cos we are mostly men and cars is one of the things that can we can relate to. 

Hi those considering to buy B&W,
We are all "salesman" trying to skew perceptions so I again say this - choose something you like - sound, performance, brand, design etc.


cheers.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 06, 2009, 22:19
for those eyeing Audi, you can get it at 110+k. Just press harder. trust me.
its proven.

thanks
jason

Good, then I have proven the point about "value" and not just "pricing". If the Audi is as good value as the BMW, then it DESERVES to sell just as well.

By inference, is the discount on B&W pricng also just a matter of pressing this hard? ;)

If so, then all the power to the consumers! ;)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 06, 2009, 22:29
Hi Music Loft,
Yes, B&W's philosophy is to create "uncolored" speakers.   Check out the website. www.bowers-wilkins.com

I guess the brand's establishment over the years gives testament to the B&W's sucess in this philosophy over the years.

Cheers,
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on April 06, 2009, 23:39
Jason,

The salesman switched from full Classe to the Arcam FMJ amp and CD. As too many variables have been changed, its not possible to say whether it is a source issue or amp issue or both when the tonal balance changed from warm and thick to more neutral.

BTW, I don't think its covered in your earlier responses, but is the delivery charge something that is standard company policy ?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 07, 2009, 00:08
Wow!! This is getting very interesting.

On design, in my personal opinion, the Thiel looks like "box fan" while the B&W Nautilus looks like a "snail".

But to my surprise, the B&W signature diamond have book looks and performance. Anyone here auditioned the signature diamond?

Aside to Doggie Howser, why are you so actively promoting Thiel on this B&W thread??  ???

signature diamond is beyond reach... less i strike group 2 toto. i have heard them b4, but i try not to pay any attention to them.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 07, 2009, 00:18
Hi Doggie,
 I think there is a mis-understanding of what I mean by premium and branding.

When I mentioned premium branding, its a reflection of many elements of
- B&W's 40+year heritage;
- brand achievements of many "industry firsts" like the first to use Kevlar, FST, Nautilus tubes tweeters;
- brand philosophy of creating uncolored/neutral speakers;
- brand establishments in delivering quality products to the consumer; Many brands are simply small factories that have poor quality control.
- brand prestige and pride of ownership etc.  
This is the same as other premium brands (eg Mercedes also represent more then just an expensive cars).

When you buy into a brand, you are buying into a family of elements that make up the brand.  It embodies al the good quality and it reflects on the user.

And to correct your point, B&W's premium brandings have been prescribed by B&W and not created by TEG (regretably, we are not that powerful).  We are smply following the global branding strategy and this gives owners pride in owning a B&W.

And sorry to say, but BMW is overpriced.  Being in and out of car showroom and having a friend that just bought a BMW that don't even have folding side mirror despite the premium price.  It's perhaps the most over priced car in the local market now.

And the most value for money now is perhaps the 2009 Cerato but does owning a Cerato gives you the same pride as a BMW (depsite not having folding side-mirror?  And Cerato have much more feature and you can perhaps buy 2x Cerato.

oops sorry, I am talking about cars again. Sorry DJQ.

Cheers
jason


hey no problem. i AM driving a cerato myself. if not for the price factor i will want to own a BMW myself.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on April 07, 2009, 10:50
hey no problem. i AM driving a cerato myself. if not for the price factor i will want to own a BMW myself.
I wonder if the type of cars we drive somewhat reflects the type of hifi we are into?
I personally go for looks first and function 2nd for cars.. I guess similar to how I treat hifi in a way. Looks do matter quite a lot.
But can say I'm definitely not a BMW man.
Maybe can start a new thread about this. :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 07, 2009, 11:39
I wonder if the type of cars we drive somewhat reflects the type of hifi we are into?
I personally go for looks first and function 2nd for cars.. I guess similar to how I treat hifi in a way. Looks do matter quite a lot.
But can say I'm definitely not a BMW man.
Maybe can start a new thread about this. :P

oh man. tats bad. which is why looks (footprint as well)on the thiels is bad for me...i personally prefer the B&W steadfast slim design plus the drivers sonics.
Yes we should have a separate thread on cars. for discussion sake. haha.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 07, 2009, 12:04
Good, then I have proven the point about "value" and not just "pricing". If the Audi is as good value as the BMW, then it DESERVES to sell just as well.

By inference, is the discount on B&W pricng also just a matter of pressing this hard? ;)

If so, then all the power to the consumers! ;)


As I have said before, whether we give discounts or not is not just our decision, it affects the brand, the previous owners/buyers, the dealers and the need to preserve brand positioning etc.  Similarly, car brands are hesitant to force a depreciation of their running models.  pricing is a MBA course in itself and I will not bore the many readers.

However,  I raise the same point that I always say - if you are not open to negotiations, and that if you just want to purchase a single small item from us and expect us to give a discount that we grant another more supportive customer, then regretably, we cannot and will not.

In short, consumer power still depends what the buyer have that the seller needs (oops sorry, this is probably another MBA topic).  We view the B&W brand as an long term investment and cannot afford to crash the price positioning due to short term recessions.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 07, 2009, 12:13
Jason,

The salesman switched from full Classe to the Arcam FMJ amp and CD. As too many variables have been changed, its not possible to say whether it is a source issue or amp issue or both when the tonal balance changed from warm and thick to more neutral.

BTW, I don't think its covered in your earlier responses, but is the delivery charge something that is standard company policy ?

Hi Watchdog,
Pardon if I missed your question - yes, delivery is a standard charge and we have a price menu for this.  In your case, (which you mentioned) I believe it was waived.

As for the tonal balance, I think the issue could be the electronics/cables and not the speakers.  If you are looking for speakers, I request that you bring your amps to our place for a trial (pls book an appointment).  If you are looking to buy with electronics, then we can neutralise the comparison by using the same cables.  Fyi Classe and FMJ uses differing cable/interconnects hookups.

Maybe you can let us know what type of sound you like then we do our best to achieve

I will not say that B&W produces the most balanced speakers in the world ( i think no brands can claim that) but B&W core philosophy is still to create uncolored speakers and this will never change.



Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 12:17
Quote from: jasonteong
In short, consumer power still depends what the buyer have that the seller needs (oops sorry, this is probably another MBA topic).  We view the B&W brand as an long term investment and cannot afford to crash the price positioning due to short term recessions.

Thanks
jason

If you think this is a short term recession, you might want to change to a better MBA school :)

 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 07, 2009, 12:20
Hi Doggie,
2 or 3 years recession is nothing compared to the 40+ year heritage and the many more years ahead.  Its really a matter of perspective.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 12:30
Hi Doggie,
2 or 3 years recession is nothing compared to the 40+ year heritage and the many more years ahead.  Its really a matter of perspective.

Regards
jason

Someone should tell Lehman :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 07, 2009, 14:01
However,  I raise the same point that I always say - if you are not open to negotiations, and that if you just want to purchase a single small item from us and expect us to give a discount that we grant another more supportive customer, then regretably, we cannot and will not.

In short, consumer power still depends what the buyer have that the seller needs (oops sorry, this is probably another MBA topic).  We view the B&W brand as an long term investment and cannot afford to crash the price positioning due to short term recessions.

Thanks
jason

You are discriminating customer by giving different discount to different customer. That's what people like me who buys small items are refrained from your shop/brand.

Yes, you can determine the pricing since you are the sole distributor, but we shall see if the customer will still stick to you once it ends...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 07, 2009, 14:16
You are discriminating customer by giving different discount to different customer. That's what people like me who buys small items are refrained from your shop/brand.

Yes, you can determine the pricing since you are the sole distributor, but we shall see if the customer will still stick to you once it ends...

Hi Yihyan,
Actually I expected a response on this and this is why I indicated "supportive customer", not small or big purchases.  And yes, quite frankly, if you have big purchase, every reseller (not just us) respond differently simply because the sales person earns commission and he will fighter harder to close your deal.

We do give different discount to different customer simply because we need to reward supportive/returning customer, not discriminating against anyone.

I can only say that we have a growing pool of returning customer. 

And, for the tenth time, even if we want to drop price, my dealers in Singapore and Malaysia need to agree (strange bu true)  And I rather not depreciate the product value of current owners thus affecting "upgraders".

Regards.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 07, 2009, 14:42
Hi Yihyan,
Actually I expected a response on this and this is why I indicated "supportive customer", not small or big purchases.  And yes, quite frankly, if you have big purchase, every reseller (not just us) respond differently simply because the sales person earns commission and he will fighter harder to close your deal.

We do give different discount to different customer simply because we need to reward supportive/returning customer, not discriminating against anyone.

I can only say that we have a growing pool of returning customer. 

And, for the tenth time, even if we want to drop price, my dealers in Singapore and Malaysia need to agree (strange bu true)  And I rather not depreciate the product value of current owners thus affecting "upgraders".

Regards.
jason

in time like this, hopefully your returning customers who are upgrading can really sustain your business, since you are unable to bring in lots of new customers (and in the process losing some existing customers).....

my only grumble is that you set the entry barrier way too high. Hi-fi audio circles can't survive if it fails to attract newcomers, and i guess this is the same for your brand/business...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 07, 2009, 14:52
Hi Yihyan,
Sorry, I do not understand what you mean by high "barrier of entry".  Frankly, there is none except perhaps if you are asking for very low prices, then I think you have set up a entrance barrier yourself.
We would love to win every customer but we cannot possibly meet all the pricing needs of every customer. 
I think you need to consider how you will feel if your friend have purchased from us at a lower price and when you want to resell your unit, how you will feel if your old product becomes a "peanut" and cannot fetch a good resell value. 
B&W products does have one of the better resell value and this is not possible if we keep dumping prices.

I think communication is key - speak to the sales person and see how they can help you cos they are driven by commission and every deal counts for them.

All else fail, pls message me and let me see how to help.
Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on April 07, 2009, 18:05
Business success ultimately depends on profitability in the long run.

We can argue about customer discounts, service standards and prices, but the litmus test is whether or not enough customers return to make your business profitable.

Managing that combination of factors (service standards, pricing, bulk discounts, marketing etc) well enough is what separates survivors from being a statistic on business failure.

B&W seems to have a good product line, backed up with snazzy marketing so at least I give it two thumbs up compared with Bose.

However, it is a very competitive market so who knows.  Look at what happened to Pioneer.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 07, 2009, 19:30
I've been following this thread for a while and I must commend Jason for his continued interaction here as well as the manner in which he has conducted himself.

Its always good for customers and potential customers to have such easy access to the distributor (of course, it allows TEG to do customer recovery as well ;)).  And Jason is rather "brave" to say some of the things he has said like acknowledging premium pricing and varying discounts.  What I mean is this -- many of us already know of this, but how many sellers will actually come right out and acknowledge that they give different discounts to different people?  I think its a well calculated move because it doesn't tell me more than I already know, yet enables him to project sincerity.  (No sarcasm at all here; nothing in between the lines to read.)

I have been following B&W's developments over the years and have seen how they have trickled down their technology and added more and more ranges to cater to all segments of the market.  Do I think they are one of the best in the price-performance ratio?  No, not in Singapore at least.  But with TEG, I do believe the pricing has become more competitive than previously.

However, if you consider price to performance & aesthetics, then I think they do pretty well.  Their design may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I think many would find them quite good-looking.  Well, at least the 800 series floats my boat  ;D)

So at the end of the day, if say, speakers of comparable performance to the listener can be had for 20% less, do you find the design and branding (think Apple here, people) worth that extra 20% to you?  It's your call.  Vote with your wallet.

And just to reply to yihyan -- by and large, fixed pricing exists in department stores and supermarkets.  Lots of small retailers, audio or otherwise practice differential pricing.  Face it, that's life.  Even if you step into large chains like Harvey Norman, it is pretty well known that your negotiations skills (plus how prepared you are to walk away and how keen the salesperson is to clinch the deal) could lead to a different final price.  So if at the end of the day, the final price is not to your liking, take your business elsewhere -- which is what I suppose you did.

Peace.

 

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 20:57
So at the end of the day, if say, speakers of comparable performance to the listener can be had for 20% less, do you find the design and branding (think Apple here, people) worth that extra 20% to you?  It's your call.  Vote with your wallet.

I do buy Apple but only where I feel either the value is justified, eg iPod where there are many accessories that make it more convenient (car/iTransport/portable etc)

Or in the case of their new dual band wireless N switch, it was the same price as the equivalent Linksys model.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 07, 2009, 21:15
Very Interesting...

Jason, i think someone really don't like you..... Maybe you did not give him enough discount... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 07, 2009, 22:03
Very Interesting...

Jason, i think someone really don't like you..... Maybe you did not give him enough discount... ;D ;D ;D
Not sure if you are referring to me or yihyan but I didn't go to TEG and ask for any discount. I went to a friend's place to listen to his B&W setup. I decided then it wasn't the sound I was looking for after my headfi experience.

I do have other friends who have had the same experience as yihyan and watchdog though.

Ps watchthewaves, there are a number of other distributors in this forum and IMHO they also contribute to this forum in far more meaningful ways without letting their financial interests interfere with objectivity.

But guess they are so self-effacing that you may not have noticed them. :) ps I deal with industrial terminals, nothing sexy like hifi unfortunately, so no I am not referring to myself in the third person. 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 00:22
DJQ,

If it helps, I am a long time Thiel owner myself (1.2) and am very familiar with their products, sound, strengths and weaknesses.

I have certain comments on the 804s that I auditioned.

Tonally the balance is quite warm. Driven by the very expensive Classe equipment, I find the balance quite thick and on fast music, the bass and midrange tends to become a bit congested. The high frequency from the tweeter though is clearly extended but the balance seems a bit out of place with the mid and lows. Maybe the speaker I heard has not been run in yet. Interestingly, when driven with the Arcam FMJ equipment, the tonal balance was closer to neutral but there was a loss on low frequency grunt and control during loud passages.

Doggie is quite right in his comments on Thiel. The tonal balance is fairly different, so I think people will end up preferring one over the other.

When my wife says that the B&W is more palatable in the long run, I know exactly where she is coming from. Because of the Thiel's tendency to show up the strengths (and weaknesses unfortunately) of the recording, source and amp, a lot of care is needed in choosing the equipment. Any many of my poorly recorded albums showed up as such.... Eventually, I ended up with another system to play those discs.


noted your intentions.  :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 00:25
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
d) Petetherock: 805s


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 08, 2009, 00:34
Hi Yihyan,
Sorry, I do not understand what you mean by high "barrier of entry".  Frankly, there is none except perhaps if you are asking for very low prices, then I think you have set up a entrance barrier yourself.
the entry barrier i mentioned was the price that you 'place' on your entry level speakers :) i don't mind you placing a premium on mid or top range products, but not the entry level, as this is the level that most people like me starts this hobby.

So at the end of the day, if say, speakers of comparable performance to the listener can be had for 20% less, do you find the design and branding (think Apple here, people) worth that extra 20% to you?  It's your call.  Vote with your wallet.
It is wrong to compare B&W with Apple. Apple's product is more than just design and branding. Their products provides more 3rd-party accessories (wadia transport), better software support (itunes,apps store), better warranty (1-1 worldwide)..etc. Not to forget their ipod is one of the few players which provide a line-out connection. And i think you forgot to compare the price of Mac OS and Windows?
Talking about product differentiation, how can you compare B&W products with Apple's?

I don't see how you can argue about this premium on B&W products here in Singapore. The only reason that i can think of is the monopoly of the distributor rights (as mentioned by Jason it is controlled in Malaysia and Singapore). If Apples products have this 20% premium that you mentioned here in Singapore, i have no problem getting them online from the states or from dealers in Malaysia :)

And just to reply to yihyan -- by and large, fixed pricing exists in department stores and supermarkets.  Lots of small retailers, audio or otherwise practice differential pricing.  Face it, that's life.  Even if you step into large chains like Harvey Norman, it is pretty well known that your negotiations skills (plus how prepared you are to walk away and how keen the salesperson is to clinch the deal) could lead to a different final price.  So if at the end of the day, the final price is not to your liking, take your business elsewhere -- which is what I suppose you did.
That is why walmart, costco, amazon, yodobashi are driving those small retailers who practice such price discrimination out of business :) It also doesn't only exists in department stores and supermarkets.... go around funan/SLS(sg) or lowyat/imbi(malaysia) and see if you can haggle in the computer stores.


Jason, i think someone really don't like you..... Maybe you did not give him enough discount... ;D ;D ;D
Your humour isn't really appreciated here. In fact, i found it a bit rude for you to post such a irresponsible msg.
If it is me that you are refering to, well, sorry to disappoint you, i never step foot in TEG.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 08, 2009, 01:20
Nothing is ever a perfect comparison.  What you value as utility could be of zero value to me and vice versa.  For me, I would only use something like the iPOD on the go, so I don't care about 3rd party accessories or connectivity.  Compared to other players like the Sansa, I simply see the extra I'm paying for the iPOD to be the design and the brand.  That extra is the premium I attach to the iPOD, and is something I'm not prepared to pay for, so I look elsewhere.

Sure, the exclusive distributor controls the price (same goes for Apple too ;)), but he can only do so up to the extent that the market can bear.  He (within the contraints set by his principal)defines the market that he is targetting and he tries to forecast what it will bear.  If he gets it correct, he will survive and maybe even flourish.

So bottom line is if you are seriously considering a purchase:
(1) Negotiate the best price you can get.
(2) If you are happy to pay that price, get it.
(3) If not, move on.

There are so many speaker options out there.  And I see from another thread that you have gone for Dynaudio already.  Good for you.  Enjoy the music.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 09:14
Nothing is ever a perfect comparison.  What you value as utility could be of zero value to me and vice versa.  For me, I would only use something like the iPOD on the go, so I don't care about 3rd party accessories or connectivity.  Compared to other players like the Sansa, I simply see the extra I'm paying for the iPOD to be the design and the brand.  That extra is the premium I attach to the iPOD, and is something I'm not prepared to pay for, so I look elsewhere.

There is a cost associated with testing and qualification, whether or not you use it. If you buy an IBM Power4 UNIX based server, it has undergone a lot more testing and qualification (both hardware and software) than their Intel based servers. If you do not need the robustness of their UNIX servers, then it is a premium for which you attach no value. Ditto with the Apple accessories ecosystem.

With speakers IMHO, the costs are pretty much the same for most manufacturers.

Sure, the exclusive distributor controls the price (same goes for Apple too ;)), but he can only do so up to the extent that the market can bear.  He (within the contraints set by his principal)defines the market that he is targetting and he tries to forecast what it will bear.  If he gets it correct, he will survive and maybe even flourish.

I'd contend that the SAME constraints are with every single exclusive distributor (including Dynaudio et al) and not just B&W.

So bottom line is if you are seriously considering a purchase:
(1) Negotiate the best price you can get.
(2) If you are happy to pay that price, get it.
(3) If not, move on.

You see, that's maybe the difference in the buying patterns :)

With my father-in-law's purchase, we didn't even start out looking at the final speakers we ended up buying. Ditto with mine. We were looking for particular types of sound signature. For him, it was a more reliable version of his electrostatics. For me, it was the sound signature of my favourite headfi gear (iMod, matched Sonicaps, Triad Audio LISA III XP, Alessandro MS Pro) - neutral detailed with just a hint of warmth.

In both instances, we ended up relying on "trusted advisors" rather than just a business transaction. In the process, one of the advisors managed to get loan equipment from other vendors (amps he didn't carry etc) to match with his speakers. He even repaired an old pre-amp in the process because it was just the kind of person he was. We ended up exceeding our original budget because we managed to find what we were looking for. Me? My budget is waaay over busted. Wife still hasn't gotten the final bill hehe (ps did anyone listen to Married Man drive home show last evening? Man! Rod and Andre were talking about hiding "true expenses" from our significant others... DID I ALMOST GET INTO TROUBLE LISTENING TO THE SHOW?)

But I digress, the point is... the price is not just the whole consideration.

IMHO, of course.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 08, 2009, 11:08
I'd contend that the SAME constraints are with every single exclusive distributor (including Dynaudio et al) and not just B&W.

Yup, my comment on exclusive distributors was a general one and not specific to B&W.

You see, that's maybe the difference in the buying patterns :)

With my father-in-law's purchase, we didn't even start out looking at the final speakers we ended up buying. Ditto with mine. We were looking for particular types of sound signature. For him, it was a more reliable version of his electrostatics. For me, it was the sound signature of my favourite headfi gear (iMod, matched Sonicaps, Triad Audio LISA III XP, Alessandro MS Pro) - neutral detailed with just a hint of warmth.

In both instances, we ended up relying on "trusted advisors" rather than just a business transaction. In the process, one of the advisors managed to get loan equipment from other vendors (amps he didn't carry etc) to match with his speakers. He even repaired an old pre-amp in the process because it was just the kind of person he was. We ended up exceeding our original budget because we managed to find what we were looking for. Me? My budget is waaay over busted. Wife still hasn't gotten the final bill hehe (ps did anyone listen to Married Man drive home show last evening? Man! Rod and Andre were talking about hiding "true expenses" from our significant others... DID I ALMOST GET INTO TROUBLE LISTENING TO THE SHOW?)

But I digress, the point is... the price is not just the whole consideration.

IMHO, of course.

Totally agree that it can't be just the price.  Find the sound (and look) that you like, can you stomach the cost?  If not, find the next best one, can you afford it? ... and it can go on and on.  And then there could also be options that you don't have sufficient info on because for the amount you are going to splash out, you can't audition it to your satisfaction and so are not prepared to just buy it like that.  They will remain unknowns and "what ifs" but don't dwell on them; enjoy the music with what you have.  :)
 
Busting budget?  So what else is new?  ;D

As for hiding expenses ... another option is for both to always come clean.  Both sure to have their "weaknesses", so you have a "I can spend cos you did" situation.  Just don't go into a MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) spending spiral.  ;D

 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 08, 2009, 11:15
Hi Yihyan,
I am surprised that you concluded that we are not competitive without stepping into our showroom.  If your reference to "lowering the barrier of entry" is to reduce the price of 685 to say $500, then it will never happen.

Sometime, we (including the sales person) forget there is 686 and other speakers that are cheaper.

If you have purchased other brands, then come listen to our setup and then let us know how it compared to yours.  If you have not made any steps, then, do talk to our sales person.

Hi Doggie H,
I think it is clear that you are no longer a B&W supporter.  

Pardon me for saying this - It only buffles me why you are down-selling B&W (then created a thiel's thread) in a B&W owner's thread when you still own a B&W product (or maybe not).  With your vast experience, think it will be more worthwhile that you help B&W owner's get more out of their systems.

While you have mentioned that you have heard B&W in your friend's place and perhaps concluded that B&W is not for you, a subtle information is missing - the combination of electronics/cables used by your friend.

And perhaps you want to try listening at our showroom.  We may not have the best setup, but at least it gives you alternative idea how B&W will/may sound.

As per my message to you, our offer to replace your missing the 2-way foam plugs for the DM600 still stands. It really does not cost much to us but at least you get to play with the different sound using the plugs.

Hi watchthewaves,
On your point on "constraints are with every single exclusive distributor (including Dynaudio et al) and not just B&W", I need to point out a missing link - some local distributors are the brand's direct office (I prefer not to say who) as they have cut away the middle layer so really their constraint is less.  And with the change, I don't see any significant price drops with less cost in-between.  (similarly for mercedes, volkswagen, audi..sigh).

Hi all,
I always find it strange that some forumer make posts on how B&W sound without a proper demo at our place.  There is no obligation to listen to the systems and your comments does help us improve the sound (and we thank all those that have visited us in the past and cursed us for our poor initial jobs).  We thrive and grow with the interactions.

In a few occassions, we have encountered few customers that have purchased basing on the wrong recommendations by their friends/dealers.  example, I have had 1 walk-in that came to me saying he has previously bought a 800d for his flat, driven by a denon 140watts, and that 800d lacks bass and our 802d and lack depth in the sound.  

While I do acknowledge that there are alot of "audiophiles" that make good recommendations, but there are also alot of "make-do" owners, perhaps due to limited time/energy/resouces, and they sometime unintentionally serves as "negative ambassadors".

One important consideration - When you listen to a demo, are you rejecting the speakers or rejecting the whole setup?  After listening to your friend's setup, listen to ours and let us know the difference (and maybe we will pay your friend a visit).  

If you don't like our setup, let the sales person know so that he can swap the cables or electronics to better match your taste.

Yes, as Doggie H implied, my postings are perhaps with "financial interest".  However, one thing is clear, I have not hidden my response under some pseudo nickname and have mainly resolved or explained our positions so that we do not have that building anger against the "TEG monopoly".  We would love to be a monopoly (and perhaps trade slaves) but regretably we cannot.

And the fact is that I am convicted in the B&W brand name, the heritage, philosophy, the brand story, the brand's future.  I only strive to relay that belief to other B&W current and future owners.

As a participant in the forum, I have never said B&W is the only consideration in the world.  Just like cars and MP3 players, there are many makes.  Make your own choice with your heart after you have tested them (or by hear-say or reviews).  

Some things can never be understood until you physically experience it.  Take example, Creative MP3 won the best MP3 player (2 years back?? Sorry, not so good in MP3) but IPOD beat the hell out of them in popularity.  And how do you know that BMW have one of the best driving feel by their stated 50:50 balance ratio and all that jazz on torque, cc, rpm, etc?  You have to ramp the car past that curve.  Yes it have one of the best driving feel but still my heart longs for Mercedes/Aston Martin.

All cars no matter what size/make/price/folding side mirror or not, can reach 100km/h in X seconds.  Ultimately, its a matter of the "feel-good-factor" when you are cruising down orchard road.

Once again - Sound is more about passion/art/love.

And apologise again for such a long posts and the reference on cars...ha.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 12:05
Hi Doggie H,
I think it is clear that you are no longer a B&W supporter. 

Pardon me for saying this - It only buffles me why you are down-selling B&W in a B&W owner's thread when you still own a B&W product (or maybe not).  With your vast experience, think it will be more worthwhile that you help B&W owner's get more out of their systems.

jason, I am sorry you feel that way. FWIW, I still have the 601S2s serving rear surround duties and a CDM CSE which I feel adds the right amount of bass and depth and warmth that I want in a center speaker .

If there is anything that I learnt from my headfi journey, it is that sound signature preferences often depend on the mood of the listener. I have a custom Ultimate Ears UE11 Pro for the times when I DO want thumping bass, and I have Grado made Alessandro MS Pros to give a bit of warmth. When I want clarity and neutrality, I have the Qables iQube and my Crystal Cable-d Livewires custom IEM.

It's not that easy to swap with a speaker-based hifi system but I do believe that as our listening needs change, that would require a change in our gear to match. I think watchdog's experience (a former Thiel owner now evaluating B&W) should give you an indication of that process.

And I don't recall being critical of B&W as speakers. I merely noted their tonality and sound signature. I don't really have an issue with the speakers per se, merely the product, pricing, placement and promotion of it in the Singapore context. ;)

So while the Thiels may meet my requirements now, I have never written off the B&W from all future consideration. As I have said, I am not a brand junkie. I am passionate about music. Not brands :)

While you have mentioned that you have heard B&W in your friend's place and perhaps concluded that B&W is not for you, a subtle information is missing - the combination of electronics/cables used by your friend.

When you have friends passionate about their hifi as much as we are, you'll probably realize that auditions are NOT a singular event. Just look at this forum. Everytime someone tries something new, you'll see fellow enthusiasts flock over to that member's place for auditions (cue Jason and his SVS bass heaven ;))

Similarly, I have been to my friend's place (some esoteric gear and acoustic treatment done) numerous times, and he has changed his gear more often that I could remember. I'd take his advice and recommendations over most sales people :) Ultimately, though, B&Ws DO HAVE a sound signature and that is why he loves them. Changing the amps and minor tweaks can change the sound a little, but they will always have the same quality. I'd be surprised if they didn't.

As per my message to you, our offer to replace your missing the 2-way foam plugs for the DM600 still stands. It really does not cost much to us but at least you get to play with the different sound using the plugs.

And I have thanked you when you made the offer. I still have the 601S2s but they serve rear surround duties now and driven by the AVR, it has never been boomy (as I noted in my other posts before) so I didn't feel the need to plug them.

I always find it strange that some forumer make posts on how B&W sound without a proper demo at our place. 

And I always find it strange that you think that the TEG is first and last authority in B&W :) I have friends both in Singapore and abroad who have invested in B&W even before TEG was appointed the distributor and are probably more au fait with how to get the most out of their B&Ws and can offer more credible advice.

Some things can never be understood until you physically experience it.  Take example, Creative MP3 won the best MP3 player (2 years back?? Sorry, not so good in MP3) but IPOD beat the hell out of them in popularity.

As I said before, I am not a brand junkie. I had the MiniDisc and Creative's first hard disk based Zen player. It was years years later that I got the ipod (for the reasons stated elsewhere). I did not buy an ipod just because.

And how do you know that BMW have one of the best driving feel by their stated 50:50 balance ratio and all that jazz on torque, cc, rpm, etc?  You have to ramp the car past that curve.  Yes it have one of the best driving feel but still my heart longs for Mercedes/Aston Martin.

Again, I am not stuck on any one brand. I'd test drive all the cars and then choose the car that spoke to me best as a driver.

Not because of what marketeers claim the car would make me feel.

Maybe that's the difference.

All cars no matter what size/make/price/folding side mirror or not, can reach 100km/h in X seconds.  Ultimately, its a matter of the "feel-good-factor" when you are cruising down orchard road.

Maybe that's the key difference between you and I. The feel good factor for me is not when I am crawling down an orchard road jam. But how much "feel-good-factor" I get when I am taking turn 9 in Sepang ;) because to me, that is when a REAL driver's car is in its element.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 08, 2009, 12:38
Hi Doggie,
I will not drag this discussion as its becoming like a "witch-hunt" and will only reply on 1 point as I believe is critical.

While you have the luxury of good audiophile pals and foreign friends/advisors (perhaps B&W resellers), And also, maybe you have the luck to have friends/adviser that have exact taste in sound.  Many others do not have and they need to have a "reference point".

I did not say we are the authority in B&W and I/TEG/we dare not say this.  But we are one key reference point. 

While I avoid saying that we are the authority but I dare say this - if you have decided to write off B&W without stepping to hear them in our showroom and talk to the salesperson, then you are being too rash as you will never know what you are missing and you will never know if your friend is right or bias.  This applies to all brands/showrooms, not just B&W.

regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 08, 2009, 12:44
My friend is biased alright ;) he's a dyed in the wool, true blue B&W fanboi. And I love him just the same. Among our group, as the Chinese saying goes: if he say he No.2 in B&W knowledge, no one will dare to say they are No. 1 ;) but he'd never boast.

Anyway, in case I didn't make it clear enough. I didn't "write off" B&W. Dunno where you got that from.

I will not drag this discussion as its becoming like a "witch-hunt"

Word.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 08, 2009, 13:41
Hi Yihyan,
I am surprised that you concluded that we are not competitive without stepping into our showroom.  If your reference to "lowering the barrier of entry" is to reduce the price of 685 to say $500, then it will never happen.

Sometime, we (including the sales person) forget there is 686 and other speakers that are cheaper.

If you have purchased other brands, then come listen to our setup and then let us know how it compared to yours.  If you have not made any steps, then, do talk to our sales person.
Hi, i am equally surprised that you thought that your showroom is not the only place to audition/get a pairs of B&W :) And somehow did manage to get the quotation of 684/685 from your staff without entering your shop. I never requested 685 to be lowered until $500. but just to be priced competitively against its competitor. The price for 685 is £380 in UK which is the same as Quad 11L2, the price for MA RS1 is £350 and MS Mezzo2 is £450. It was a big surprise for me when i learnt that 685 (before GST and the so called cash discount) is 20% (even more if you considered the price given by musicavlink) more expensive than Mezzo2.

i did not try the 686/685 as i directly jumped to CM1 after listening to 684.
you may want to read about my 2cents here http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=61544.msg458235#msg458235 (http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=61544.msg458235#msg458235)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 08, 2009, 14:25
Hi Yihyan,

On your link, you have listened with Cyrus.  That means you gone to the dealer (KEC) showroom which we supply limited product lines only.  Perhaps drop by our showroom (161 lavender street) for another listen using Carat/Arcam. 

And since you listened to CM1, then you should listen to CM5 as well (this is closer to 685).

It should give you another perspective, that does not imply that Cyrus is lesser then Arcam/Carat (before someone jumped on it cos we are not the authority/reference for other distributor's brand).

As for pricing, I can only say we are competitively priced already and prefer not to launch this discussion into another debate on pricing.

I prefer that this thread moves back to its original intend to allow owners address their issues and to allow discussion on how owners can get the best out of their systems.

Regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 08, 2009, 14:42
Hi Yihyan,

On your link, you have listened with Cyrus.  That means you gone to the dealer showroom.  Perhaps drop by our showroom (161 lavender street) for another listen using Carat/Arcam. 

And since you listened to CM1, then you should listen to CM5 as well (this is closer to 685).

It should give you another perspective, that does not imply that Cyrus is lesser then Arcam/Carat (before someone jumped on it cos we are not the authority/reference for other distributor's brand).

As for pricing, I can only say we are competitively priced already and prefer not to launch this discussion into another debate on pricing.

I prefer that this thread moves back to its original intend to allow owners address their issues and to allow discussion on how owners can get the best out of their systems.

Regards
jason
Thanks for your offer and peace.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 15:36
Just something i tought i should share. the Cyrus equipments matched very evenly with B&W range of speakers. in this case my good ole DM601 S3. using Cyrus CD6s and 6vs2 int amp at only 40Wx2. it makes my B&W sing. trust me if you tought tought Denon/Marantz AVR it was good. pairing it with a delicated CDP/Amp will make listen thru Dvdp and AVR horrible.( in terms of hifi stereo setup ) i wont ponder about any other brands asa i have not tried them. but if your budget permits, get a Cyrus setup for your B&Ws you dun know their potiental till you try!!!

For HT still ok. Hifi its no good
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/HD1.jpg)

Hifi with Cyrus. worth while upgrade
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/DJQ96/Cyrus.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 08, 2009, 16:21
sorie....will sound naive  ;D

can Cyrus 8 drive B&W 805? Else Cyrus 8 to drive 683?

 8)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 16:29
sorie....will sound naive  ;D

can Cyrus 8 drive B&W 805? Else Cyrus 8 to drive 683?

 8)

you are talking about Cyrus 8vs2 int amp or Cyrus 8 power amp? either one no problem.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 08, 2009, 16:35
not an authority on Cyrus but from the looks of the paper specs of both speakers and amp, seems possible.

regards
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 08, 2009, 21:12
Tks for the comments.

I am thinking of Cyrus 8 Int Amp, and possibly match it off wif Cyrus CD  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on April 08, 2009, 22:50
If you are thinking of pairing the 8vs2 with the 805s, I can share my experience with you.

When I started out, I was using this combination.  Cyrus is known to be abit forward in the sound and some find it bright.  However, the 805s does contain it quite well.  When I added the PSX-R on the 8vs2, I immediately noticed as if a veil is lifted.  There is more clarity and seperation.

Having read about 805s can do with more power, I then ventured on with 2 monoblocks (Smartpowers) + PSX-R with the 8vs2 as a pre.  The soundstage did open up drastically.  The bass is tighter and the mids are more pronounced.  I then later changed my int to a Pre vs2 and the pre/power combo did bring it up to another level.  I could still hear the details even at very low volume.

I think end of the day, I would recommend giving the 805s as much juice as you can.

Tks for the comments.

I am thinking of Cyrus 8 Int Amp, and possibly match it off wif Cyrus CD  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 08, 2009, 23:19
points noted  ;)

I think end of the day, I would recommend giving the 805s as much juice as you can.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 08, 2009, 23:32
you are talking about Cyrus 8vs2 int amp or Cyrus 8 power amp? either one no problem.

so which do you have? 805s or 683?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 08, 2009, 23:45
sorie for giving the wrong impression. Not yet B&W-ish  ;)

so which do you have? 805s or 683?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 09, 2009, 00:03
sorie for giving the wrong impression. Not yet B&W-ish  ;)


haha ok. but err i read thru the history, since 2007 you have been talking about B&W. till now you didnt buy 1 yet??? winz lor. show support mah. buy the 686 surrounds 1st. use it as a bookshelf spk. after which get floodstanders or better bookshelfs move 686 to surrounds.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 09, 2009, 00:30
Your humour isn't really appreciated here. In fact, i found it a bit rude for you to post such a irresponsible msg.
If it is me that you are refering to, well, sorry to disappoint you, i never step foot in TEG.

Hi yihyan, i am not refering to you....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cn9601 on April 09, 2009, 10:06
I was evaluating and I was tempted. I am still being tempted...... ;D  more in love wif 800s, coz of its build and spec  ;)

Unlike Onky AVR and BD and CDP, replacing my current front & ctr (good old Mission 774) means a massive investment that I need to replace oso my int amp (good old Audiolab) and CDP, importantly the amp. And this easily mean ard $10k-$15k or MORE  :o ::)

I am still weighing my options: Int amp/Preamp + Power amp, Fronts & Ctr

Y I ask abt Cyrus, bcos the 'better' ones wif more juice will defintely sky rocket to >$20k. Not tat Cyrus is cheap, but kinda affordable. Of coz there are better 'matching' amp wif B&W.........at a price; 一分钱,一分货.

Nowadays, I cant buy things that my heart tells me. I buy wat my mind tells me ===> buy wat u need, not buy wat u want  8)

So will continue to read tis thread in awe and drooooool on B&W  :-[

haha ok. but err i read thru the history, since 2007 you have been talking about B&W. till now you didnt buy 1 yet??? winz lor. show support mah. buy the 686 surrounds 1st. use it as a bookshelf spk. after which get floodstanders or better bookshelfs move 686 to surrounds.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on April 10, 2009, 17:46
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1x2, 686x2 (new addition)
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
d) Petetherock: 805s
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: righteous_terre on April 12, 2009, 17:11
I have been reading this thread for a while and it was previously due to some information on this thread that made me decide to purchase the speakers a while back.

have resisted to poke my nose in all the debate but since now I am jobless and have much time at home now...

I think some posts and comments made by DH is not warranted (esp in a B&W thread)and if Thiel is all that great then Thiel would have been one of the big speaker brands..but Thiel is not and B&W is still considered one of the great loudspeaker legends.

Just because you say Thiel is better does not mean it is.  I do not think you are any authority.

I think it is correct Jason came out to correct some points.  otherwise, people like me will be misguided by forumers pretending to help other forumers but have hidden agenda or a personal grudge.

Sample of a personal grudge by DH: "And I don't recall being critical of B&W as speakers.....I don't really have an issue with the speakers per se, merely the product, pricing, placement and promotion of it in the Singapore context."

Perhaps DH prefer himself or the Thiel Distributor as the next B&W distributor.

And DH's continued poking fun of the B&W/distributor in other threads is a sign of weakness and is threading on a thin line.  If I am Jason, I will get my lawyers to keep track of what DH/Mr Toh says.

Frankly, as a proud B&W owner, I do not like other jokers coming into the thread and try to bash the brand.  It seems to be telling me that I should feel bad for my decision to purchase my B&W.  On the contrary, I think only the weaker side take sniper shots at the winning side.

I am surprised that so few B&W supporter exists in this thread.  I hope to see more supportive comments so that these people that worship a "tower fan" as the best speaker will stay in their realm - perhaps in Giant hypermarket where there are alot of cheap fans for them to kowtow to...

And to those who do not believe in the B&W brand and have a weak mind, why are you in this thread anyway??  This place is for those who appreciate more then just sound, and a place to honor the B&W ownership.

And a note to Jason, I know some of your prices is below international price and some are above.  I can never understand it despite my many years in sales distribution.  It will be great to see some adjustments ;) so that I can upgrade my speaker, maybe in the next few months.

By the way, your sales guys are great, compared to some (not all la) ah-bengs in Adelphi.

cheers
righteous
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: righteous_terre on April 12, 2009, 17:13
1) HT102: 2 x 805S, HTM4S
2) Magnuz: 2x 683 (Cherry)
3) Jeetung: 2x 684, HTM62 (Wenge)
4) DJQ: 2x DM601, 2x DM600, LCR60 ( old discontinued models )
5) lhraiders 2 x 805s, 2 x DS3, HTM4s
6) TYF : 2xCM1
7) JLCSG: 2 x 804s
Cool bong: 2x 685, 2x 686, HTM62
9) SteinigerGE: 1 x HTM3S, 2 x 805S (Surrounds)
10) Ajitbm: 2 x 685 and HTM62 (Wenge)
11) lkaiseng: 2 x 685, HTM62 (Wenge), 2 x DM601
12) badbad2000: 2 x 685 (black)
13) DoggieHowser oldskool 601S2s rear, CDM CSE center
14) T1M3CH453R 5x M-1 sattelites for Home Theater duties.
15) music_loft: 2 x 685, ASW610 (Just added to my system today.....)
16) Demosthenes: 2 X 685, HTM62
17) infernosix: 2 X 805S (Rosenut), 3 X M-1
18) raysusan: 2x N805S {cherrywood}
19) rahul: 2x DM602 S3
20) righteous: 2x 803s, 2x 685s, HTM4s

And pls allow me to add few others on their behalf (and subjected to their corrections):
a) Wyvern: CM1x2, 686x2 (new addition)
b) Newdan: 685x2, HTM62,
c) Tomktan: 683x2, HTM61, 685x2, ASW610
d) Petetherock: 805s
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 12, 2009, 17:49
I was evaluating and I was tempted. I am still being tempted...... ;D  more in love wif 800s, coz of its build and spec  ;)

Unlike Onky AVR and BD and CDP, replacing my current front & ctr (good old Mission 774) means a massive investment that I need to replace oso my int amp (good old Audiolab) and CDP, importantly the amp. And this easily mean ard $10k-$15k or MORE  :o ::)

I am still weighing my options: Int amp/Preamp + Power amp, Fronts & Ctr

Y I ask abt Cyrus, bcos the 'better' ones wif more juice will defintely sky rocket to >$20k. Not tat Cyrus is cheap, but kinda affordable. Of coz there are better 'matching' amp wif B&W.........at a price; 一分钱,一分货.

You looking at which end of the 800 range?  At the lower end, I don't think you need like $10-20k for your amp.  In fact, I think even for the higher end, depending on your philosophy, can do under $10k.

YMMV, but I go with spending more on speakers compared to the other components because that's the voice of your system.  Then for power, I go for lots of good, clean power ... and that can be found with pro audio stuff.  If you explore that realm, cost effective options beyond your usual consumer brands open up.  Possibly can also consider digital amps, but I haven't kept up with developments there, so can't say anything about that.

Even if you don't extract the last ounce of quality sound from your speakers, you would have gotten a price to performance ratio for the entire system already.
 
Why don't you lug your Audiolab down and hear how it performs with the 805 or 804?  I have heard a relatively "puny" Linn Classik drive a pair of 804 and it was putting out quite "PRATty" sound.  One option is that if your present amp or a cheaper interim amp produces a sound you can more than live with, then get the speakers first.  Upgrade the rest of the system bit by bit later.

Enjoy the music  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 12, 2009, 19:14
I have been reading this thread for a while and it was previously due to some information on this thread that made me decide to purchase the speakers a while back.

Then perhaps I might request that you re-read some of the same posts to refresh your memory :)

Here's what I wrote of the B&W sound signature.
"warm mellow"
"works particularly well with female vocalists"
"quite good at softening the edginess in recordings, especially not so well mastered ones."
"warm comfort"
(I thought those were good qualities!) :)

And here's what I wrote of Thiels
"critical"

I believe other forummers here have had similar comments. If your choice of music and listening patterns work better with one speaker then that speaker is the right choice of you. Irrespective of what other reviewers said. You should not have to feel "reassured" with what reviewers say, more what your heart and soul tells you when you listen to the music.

then Thiel would have been one of the big speaker brands..but Thiel is not and B&W is still considered one of the great loudspeaker legends.

Up until a couple of years ago, I had never even heard of the Thiel brand :) but if "popularity" or "brand awareness" is an indication of greatness, then I guess the Golden Arches would be the authority in cuisine.

And as to why I post here, it is because I too own B&Ws and I feel that it is good for consumers to have a voice. If you read watchdog and yihyan's posts, among countless others, it might be of concern to most other distributors to see if some changes are needed. Feedback is an important channel for business improvement.


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 13, 2009, 01:12
As always i am a B&W fan from day 1 since i joined this forum. the only regret is not getting the B&W 603 S3 made in UK. tell me more about those newer 6series, parts from UK, assembled in China. under the QA from B&W personnel. to me those made in UK is just that tingling little bit better. but thats just me, so no need to quote me.
both brands are totally made in different countries, UK and US. both types share different genre of music foundations.
the B&W owners here share that same feeling when it comes to music. But there is so many brands out there, not many willing to pay premium for it. if my budget permits i will still go for the B&W. Buy what you like? or Like what you buy? Its very different.
i was once told off by someone: "The world is so big out there and you are living in your own world." Take it with a pinch of salt, follow your heart/mind/soul. peace.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: celowsg on April 13, 2009, 01:21
Same as righteous_terre, I have been reading this thread for some time. I am myself a B&W owner and all my speakers are bought from TEG. I did not reply till now because I agree to some of the comments from DH and disagree with some. Same feeling for Jason as well. Somehow, righteous_terre's reply made me want to voice out too. :) I have to declare I am on neutral ground though.

B&W's branding had been tarnished by the previous distributer imho. They had overpriced B&W's products and provided bad service(personal experience and friend's). The damage remains till today which I believe why most of the seniors here had their reservations with TEG. With TEG, the pricing has already become more competitive than previously. I compared TEG's pricing with overseas especially in UK(trying to take advantage of the weak pounds) and they are slightly higher(by few hundreds) for most current models. But buying from TEG will enjoy local waranty and on top of these, TEG provided good customer service. Of course, there are some models that you can get from UK at cheaper price now. We have a choice to buy elsewhere if it is cheaper there. In this context, I agree with DH that pricing can still be improved. But I do have to take into account that Jason being a distributer had to take his dealer's interest into consideration and therefore being "forced" to hold the pricing for those models that his dealers carry. And that's why Jason would like us to talk to them personally and he will help whenever possible(I hope). Do give them a fair chance. On the other hand, I do hope Jason can improve the current situation. This is surely turning many of the customers away.

In audio, I believe everyone by now had realised that it is very personal. DH have his own preference as well (evident from his many posts). B&W does have its strength and weaknesses as does all other speakers. But I think B&W speakers does appeal to most in general in terms of it sounding as well as design and quality. Just like what DH and others had done, if you feel a particular B&W's model it is overpriced, move on to another speaker from other manufacturer. In time to come, the distributer will be "punished" for overpricing with falling sales and profit. But do give due credits if the distributer had done well.

Lastly, I do hope the future of this thread is for the many B&W owners to discuss their experiences with their speakers or update the community of any new products.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 13, 2009, 01:25
thumbs up bro celowsg! now how about some pictures of your setup? heheh.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: celowsg on April 13, 2009, 07:52
Hi Bro DJQ, I will try to take some pictures of my humble setup. Need to tidy up the mess first :P.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on April 13, 2009, 11:06
Recently had some dealings with TEG (by the way, I bought all my B&W speakers from KEC not TEG). There are always good and bad points for every dealer, distributor. To be fair to TEG, I had to relate my pleasant experience with them.

If you followed this thread, you would have noted that I 'complained' about the delivery of the tweeters for my CM1 sometime back. My CM1 tweeters were dented by my son then and I had to approach TEG for help to replace it.

Intially, I paid for both the parts and labour charges and certainly understand that warranty doesn't cover acts of neglience. However, when I went back to collect the speakers, I was surprise that they refunded me the labour charge as matter of goodwill despite the fact that I did not get the speakers from them.

As far as I can remember, I have never got such treatment from any service centre.


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 13, 2009, 11:34
Hi all,
Was considering to post in my personal capacity (as a assurance to all the cynics, I have not used my personal ID for 3 years already) but decided against it or people will think I have double standards.  So i again place this message on behalf of TEG.

I think all the arguement fundamentally goes down to the issue of pricing. 

On this, TEG can only say that we view all developments in the long run and we will and need to take things, one small step at a time.  We need to protect the investments of past owners and will juggle between the interests of multiple stakeholders in the near future.

Thanks
Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest - Singapore
e. & o. e.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 12:32
Well, I have to admit that I was very much interested in the B&W 685 as well.

Love the design of the Kevlar woofer since the beginning it was used.

But the high pricing kept me from purchasing it.

Monson quoted me S$9xx previously, while TEG quoted me S$10xx. Both before GST.

This led me to think, I could get the MA RS6 at S$12xx (before GST). The 685 is priced at £3xx while the RS6 at £6xx.

Therefore, the RS6 appears more VFM to me.

This is the same reason why I choose to purchase the marantz SA8003 at S$6xx instead of the NAD C545BEE which is also around S$6xx odd. The SA8003 is priced at £7xx and the NAD at £3xx in UK.

So there are customers like us that go for VFM stuff. Especially in times like these.

Unfortunely, this makes me (at least) unable to be a owner of B&W speakers, as it simply does not makes sense to purchase it.

My heart says yes, but my mind (and pocket) said no. My mind (and pocket) won. ;)

As others had commented, we can simply bring our hard earned money elsewhere. And this is what I will be doing.

 ::)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 13, 2009, 13:02
Monson quoted me S$9xx previously, while TEG quoted me S$10xx. Both before GST.



Hi,
Sorry, but I know that 685 is one of the models that we adopted the prices from Monsoon (due to various reasons).  The list prices was S$1120 in the past but we recently adjusted our list price down to S$1070 including GST. 

As for quotation, I cannot comment as it will be verbal and I guess you have not stepped into our showroom as well.

Regards
jason



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 13, 2009, 13:41
Well, I have to admit that I was very much interested in the B&W 685 as well.
Love the design of the Kevlar woofer since the beginning it was used.
But the high pricing kept me from purchasing it.
Monson quoted me S$9xx previously, while TEG quoted me S$10xx. Both before GST.
This led me to think, I could get the MA RS6 at S$12xx (before GST). The 685 is priced at £3xx while the RS6 at £6xx.
Therefore, the RS6 appears more VFM to me.
This is the same reason why I choose to purchase the marantz SA8003 at S$6xx instead of the NAD C545BEE which is also around S$6xx odd. The SA8003 is priced at £7xx and the NAD at £3xx in UK.
So there are customers like us that go for VFM stuff. Especially in times like these.
Unfortunely, this makes me (at least) unable to be a owner of B&W speakers, as it simply does not makes sense to purchase it.
My heart says yes, but my mind (and pocket) said no. My mind (and pocket) won. ;)
As others had commented, we can simply bring our hard earned money elsewhere. And this is what I will be doing.
 ::)

Hi bro, sorry that you felt that way. but if prices aside, did you actually do a A/B comparison on both speakers on the type to music you listened to? plus the type of equipment you are going to pair with? there is this price to performance ratio at work too.
IMHO if the new series were to be still geninuely made in UK. i will buy them at the mentioned $1k price tag. the VFM issue kicked in for me when they were assembled in China(which everyone thinks is supposed to reduce price with cheaper labour rental and production costs) but did not bring down the price but more with out 7%gst.
Never will anyone think production plants in China lets B&W continue to be more competitively priced to manufacture the entry level 6series to a wider market with also possible cheaper shipping costs. i never heard the MA RS6 before so i wont comment on it. since its priced higher it shouldnt be compared to the entry level 6series anymore, but more to the higher range CM series.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 14:01
Hi,
Sorry, but I know that 685 is one of the models that we adopted the prices from Monsoon (due to various reasons).  The list prices was S$1120 in the past but we recently adjusted our list price down to S$1070 including GST. 

As for quotation, I cannot comment as it will be verbal and I guess you have not stepped into our showroom as well.

Regards
jason


Nope, never step into your show room as yet. Travel past your showroom many times though. My office very near your show room.

But the price kept me away from even thinking about stepping in. Each time I went past your show room, there is an urge to step in. But unfortunately, my mind (and pocket) again, plays that silly trick on me. Telling me it's not VFM.

Again, in times like these, VFM products are those that I look for.

I'm not looking for prestige or history on a product. If it sounds good, I'm OK with it.

A
Nope, never step into your show room as yet. Travel past your showroom many times though. My office very near your show room.

But the price kept me away from even thinking about stepping in. Each time I went past your show room, there is an urge to step in. But unfortunately, my mind (and pocket) again, plays that silly trick on me. Telling me it's not VFM.

Again, in times like these, VFM products are those that I look for.

A £6xx speakers, I would say, would sound better than £3xx speakers?

Anyway, the RS6 is the one I'm aiming for now.

Using marantz SA8003 & PM8003 integrated amp. The B&W 685 and MA RS6 sould be a good match for them.  ;D

 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Crazyfrites on April 13, 2009, 14:12
I remember walking into the TEG showroom with my wife for the 1st time last year. It was rather 'intimidating'  initially as my wife put it (cuz of bad experiences with other audio shops). But I believe we were served by Jason and I have to say that he was really friendly n patient with us even though we were clueless about what we were looking for.

To sum up it was a very positive experience even though we didn't buy anything. In fact, till today, my wife is still bugging me about getting the pair of CM7! Somehow women's hearing is better than men! They can somehow hear details that otherwise is missed by us!  ;D I am sure 1 day I will fulfill her wish of having that pair of CM7 (think by that time, CM7 stop production liao)  :P

The whole episode goes to show that sometime pay a little bit more (if not need abit more even better...hahaha) for sound of mind and strong customer service goes hand in hand. I have bought items from shops selling me at better discount but crappy after sales service is a nightmare. Like buying car n insurance, before buying, can see the salesperson's  ;D; after sales is done, you can't even reach them or see any teeth!   >:(
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 13, 2009, 14:17
hi CStanxpl,
Perhaps when you drop by, I tell all sales person that we will not sell you anything.

I think VFM has wide definitions.  Perhaps you will listen to the 685 and tag a value to its sound after you have heared it.   685 again won the group tests in What Hifi's latest April issues.  

No one will pitch any sales.  Just declare you are CSTanxpl... :) no one will push any sales. 

cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 14:29
Hi bro, sorry that you felt that way. but if prices aside, did you actually do a A/B comparison on both speakers on the type to music you listened to? plus the type of equipment you are going to pair with? there is this price to performance ratio at work too.
IMHO if the new series were to be still geninuely made in UK. i will buy them at the mentioned $1k price tag. the VFM issue kicked in for me when they were assembled in China(which everyone thinks is supposed to reduce price with cheaper labour rental and production costs) but did not bring down the price but more with out 7%gst.
Never will anyone think production plants in China lets B&W continue to be more competitively priced to manufacture the entry level 6series to a wider market with also possible cheaper shipping costs. i never heard the MA RS6 before so i wont comment on it. since its priced higher it shouldnt be compared to the entry level 6series anymore, but more to the higher range CM series.

The B&W 685 and MA RS6 both should be MIC. Can't remember where I read that before. But Jason should be able to confirm that. Therefore, I do expect them to be more VFM actually. Just like the marantz SA/PM8003 that I have. They are MIC and compared to UK prices, it is VVFM in S'pore.

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 :)


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 14:37
hi CStanxpl,
Perhaps when you drop by, I tell all sales person that we will not sell you anything.

I think VFM has wide definitions.  Perhaps you will listen to the 685 and tag a value to its sound after you have heared it.   685 again won the group tests in What Hifi's latest April issues.  

No one will pitch any sales.  Just declare you are CSTanxpl... :) no one will push any sales. 

cheers
jason

Hi Jason, either I am reading this the wrong way or I am actually raedling what I am reading.

If this is your respond, you can be sure I will never step foot into your show room. Neither will I even take a look at any B&W speakers from your dealers.

End of story.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 13, 2009, 14:45
The B&W 685 and MA RS6 both should be MIC. Can't remember where I read that before. But Jason should be able to confirm that. Therefore, I do expect them to be more VFM actually. Just like the marantz SA/PM8003 that I have. They are MIC and compared to UK prices, it is VVFM in S'pore.

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 :)

ok point noted.  :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 13, 2009, 15:19
Hi Jason, either I am reading this the wrong way or I am actually raedling what I am reading.

If this is your respond, you can be sure I will never step foot into your show room. Neither will I even take a look at any B&W speakers from your dealers.

End of story.  :P

Bro,
There's a smiley in his post -- it was light-hearted.  Believe he meant to ask you to feel free to pop by and have a listen, no obligation to buy.

If any speaker is in your consideration, shouldn't you be arranging for a listen and then talk to the sales person to find out how flexible they are with their pricing?  Why shortlist by the British pound list price when you are buying in Singapore?

Years ago, I went to listen to many speakers (and of course asked about price too), and paid repeated visits to some too, before finally settling on my purchase.  Many were friendly and accomodating.  There were some that were arrogant or very pushy.  For those, you just simply decide not to go back again.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hobbeslow on April 13, 2009, 15:39
Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.


Hi cstanxpl,

I am not a B&W owner, but I do read this thread as there are interesting discussions going on here.

I own a RS6, and I've heard both the B&W 685 and 684, although only after I placed the order for the RS6. I'm a long time MA fan and personally, I prefer the MA sonic signature. However, I can see why others may want to pay a premium for the B&W. I would say that B&W's reproduction is more neutral than the MA; as you know, MAs are known to accentuate the treble in music, and most people either like it or don't. It's down to a question of musical taste.

What I am saying is that price is only one factor, but what you get for that price is also important. Like I said, most people I know either like or cannot tahan the MA sound. If you cannot taha the MA sound, you may not even want to pay S$100 for it.

 

 

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 15:53
Bro,
There's a smiley in his post -- it was light-hearted.  Believe he meant to ask you to feel free to pop by and have a listen, no obligation to buy.

If any speaker is in your consideration, shouldn't you be arranging for a listen and then talk to the sales person to find out how flexible they are with their pricing?  Why shortlist by the British pound list price when you are buying in Singapore?

Years ago, I went to listen to many speakers (and of course asked about price too), and paid repeated visits to some too, before finally settling on my purchase.  Many were friendly and accomodating.  There were some that were arrogant or very pushy.  For those, you just simply decide not to go back again.

Sorry, I tend to be a bit sensitive lately. Don't ask.  :P

My apologies to Jason if I have misread his post and sound harsh. I have a tongue sticking out too eh.

I compare in £ simply due to the fact that the mags that I read are British mags. I know. Don't reply on reviews, audition what I am interested in etc.

However, there are too many models to audition and the mags are there to help to filter out those that does not seem worthy to buy. At the same time, the prices are being compared.

B&W and MA are British brand as well. Even now that they are MIC, they are still priced higher than in UK. Taking the exchange rate as 2.24. Teh MA provideing a better VFM ratio than the B&W.

Likewise, when I purchase US products, I compare Sing price to US$.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 16:02
Hi cstanxpl,

I am not a B&W owner, but I do read this thread as there are interesting discussions going on here.

I own a RS6, and I've heard both the B&W 685 and 684, although only after I placed the order for the RS6. I'm a long time MA fan and personally, I prefer the MA sonic signature. However, I can see why others may want to pay a premium for the B&W. I would say that B&W's reproduction is more neutral than the MA; as you know, MAs are known to accentuate the treble in music, and most people either like it or don't. It's down to a question of musical taste.

What I am saying is that price is only one factor, but what you get for that price is also important. Like I said, most people I know either like or cannot tahan the MA sound. If you cannot taha the MA sound, you may not even want to pay S$100 for it.

Which is why I choose marantz electronics. They have a slight warm to their tone, both CDP and AMP. To balance out the treble for the MA RS6.  ;D

Personally, I find the RS6 to be quite neutral too. But when I audition, it was not through the marantz.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 16:05
As I posted elsewhere :) B&Ws do excel with my old 80s rock and roll CDs.

After running in the Thiels now and playing Bon Jovi's Never Say Goodbye, I was struck by how polite Jon sounded during that song :P Definitely not what I remembered listening to growing up. In other tracks where the bass was in the recording like Luther Vandross' Dance With My Father, the bass was prominent, but if it's not in the recording, it's just not there.

On the other hand, the B&Ws (both on my friend's and my old 601S2s) had no such problems. They added the "rock" atmosphere to the same track. Can even imagine holding a candle in concert atmosphere..

Horses for courses, as they say :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hobbeslow on April 13, 2009, 16:06
Which is why I choose marantz electronics. They have a slight warm to their tone, both CDP and AMP. To balance out the treble for the MA RS6.  ;D
Personally, I find the RS6 to be quite neutral too. But when I audition, it was not through the marantz.

Bro, I'm gonna reply to your post on the MA owner's thread. Let's not OT here.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 13, 2009, 16:23
You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

Anyway, no point arguing and comparing about all these. The fact is the 685 cost S$10xx. The RS6 coast S$12xx. There is no doubt about th eprices here. I think whether VFM or not depends on the individual.

 :)

Category wise, i think you should compare RS6 with 684 as both are floorstanders....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 13, 2009, 16:39
685 again won the group tests in What Hifi's latest April issues.  

Jason,

maybe you need to check out the comment below:

Quote
In the end, then, it’s almost a horses-for-courses call. If you want muscle and flexibility go for the B&Ws, and if you want ultimate speed and precision go for the Mordaunt-Shorts.

If the price of the two front-runners were the same, it would be an even closer call, but, as there’s a £70 price difference, the cheaper pair eventually wins out.

Taken from What Hi Fi review of MS Mezzo 2 http://whathifi.com/Review/Mordaunt-Short-Mezzo-2/ (http://whathifi.com/Review/Mordaunt-Short-Mezzo-2/)

so, again, it boils down to the price again...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hobbeslow on April 13, 2009, 16:48
so, again, it boils down to the price again...

Hi YY,

The review below states the B&W's MRSP to be 380 pounds, i.e. 70 pounds lower than the MS. As such i believe the review is saying that the B&W would be the winner if all else is equal.

http://whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685/
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 13, 2009, 16:58
Hi YY,

The review below states the B&W's MRSP to be 380 pounds, i.e. 70 pounds lower than the MS. As such i believe the review is saying that the B&W would be the winner if all else is equal.

http://whathifi.com/Review/BandW-685/

hey bro,

You got my msg wrong. No doubt B&W 685 is the winner. But what i wanted to highlight is that 685 is the winner because they are 70 pounds cheaper :)
The same cannot be say here.....as i mentioned earlier, the price difference here in sg is somehow very significant....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hobbeslow on April 13, 2009, 17:00
hey bro,

You got my msg wrong. No doubt B&W 685 is the winner. But what i wanted to highlight is that 685 is the winner because they are 70 pounds cheaper :)
The same cannot be say here.....as i mentioned earlier, the price difference here in sg is somehow very significant....

Ah, I see!

OK, my bad. Not fully immersed in this thread la....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 13, 2009, 17:14
You got my msg wrong. No doubt B&W 685 is the winner. But what i wanted to highlight is that 685 is the winner because they are 70 pounds cheaper :)
The same cannot be say here.....as i mentioned earlier, the price difference here in sg is somehow very significant....

He wasn't the only one. I too thought the Mezzo won cos it was cheaper until I compared the prices on the UK site.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 13, 2009, 20:40
Category wise, i think you should compare RS6 with 684 as both are floorstanders....

That's what I said leh.

You mentioned that the RS6 should be compared to the CM range. The problem is, if you compare the price in S'pore, the 600s range already looks like a higher range than the RS range from MA. The RS6 should be compared to the 684. The 684 is £7xx while the RS6 is £6xx. How much is the 684 selling in S'pore? I dare not even ask for a quote. Really.

Never asked this before. But how much is the 684? ???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 13, 2009, 20:53
That's what I said leh.

Never asked this before. But how much is the 684? ???

whoopppss.... guess my eye is playing trick :|

684? hm...about 25% more than the RS6. Look boy, its not about the price, i swear they are worth the premium.....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hobbeslow on April 13, 2009, 21:13
684? hm...about 25% more than the RS6. Look boy, its not about the price, i swear they are worth the premium.....

Its all about personal taste, my friend.... ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: raysusan on April 13, 2009, 22:14
i am looking for a reasonable integrated amp for my n805s
 
any advise and recommendation form u guys here?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on April 13, 2009, 23:03
i am looking for a reasonable integrated amp for my n805s
 
any advise and recommendation form u guys here?

budget?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 14, 2009, 10:38
Jason,

maybe you need to check out the comment below:

Taken from What Hi Fi review of MS Mezzo 2 http://whathifi.com/Review/Mordaunt-Short-Mezzo-2/ (http://whathifi.com/Review/Mordaunt-Short-Mezzo-2/)

so, again, it boils down to the price again...

Hi Yihyan,
MS Mz2 have a 2nd order crossover vs the cheaper 685 that have a 1st order crossover.  Then there is the more expensive kevlar driver fixed center driver vs the aluminum driver.

And we are comparing a 120w vs a 100w (685) speaker, yet it lost in terms of "muscle and low-end grunt of the B&Ws".

If the rationale to consider is that you can "boost rating" because of the the more expensive prices, then B&W will have alot more awards since B&W is known to price themselves high. 

And to sum it up, the review never said MS MZ2 wins due to the lower price.  it said its "a close call".  And given the fact that the 685won the group test in April magazine issue (winning Tannoy EPOS and Dali even though it is the most expensive), does affirms its position.

Jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 14, 2009, 10:47

B&W and MA are British brand as well. Even now that they are MIC, they are still priced higher than in UK. Taking the exchange rate as 2.24. Teh MA provideing a better VFM ratio than the B&W.

Likewise, when I purchase US products, I compare Sing price to US$.


As usual, we have this dilemma - we price against UK, people walk in tell us about USD, we price against USD, we have people tell us its a UK product.  We price against the South African Rand, people say we are crazy.  And midst of it all, the currency fluctuate like the roller coaster.

Anyway, as I said - one small step at a time.  we are not the only one that understand this problem and things is shifting (glacier speed).

Meanwhile, I can only say that, while there is alot of brands out there and magazines is often one of the easy reference, I can only say that if that particular brand matters in the industry, then it will be worth your time to listen to it.  Even if you do not buy it, you have a reference point.  Our showroom, is geared towards marketing before sales - ie as stealing a popular cookie store/brands tagline : "Free Sound".

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 14, 2009, 11:53
Hi Yihyan,
MS Mz2 have a 2nd order crossover vs the cheaper 685 that have a 1st order crossover.  Then there is the more expensive kevlar driver fixed center driver vs the aluminum driver.

And we are comparing a 120w vs a 100w (685) speaker, yet it lost in terms of "muscle and low-end grunt of the B&Ws".

If the rationale to consider is that you can "boost rating" because of the the more expensive prices, then B&W will have alot more awards since B&W is known to price themselves high. 

And to sum it up, the review never said MS MZ2 wins due to the lower price.  it said its "a close call".  And given the fact that the 685won the group test in April magazine issue (winning Tannoy EPOS and Dali even though it is the most expensive), does affirms its position.

Jason
Hi Jason,

Just going to make a quick reply. Seems my post got a lot of you confused.

First, the 685 won against MS MZ2.
Second, the 685 won because it is the cheaper between the two (and others competitors)

So, if the setup and pricing of the shootout/group test is done here in Singapore, everything would have been different.

The below excerpt is taken from MZ2 verdict:
Quote
In the end, then, it’s almost a horses-for-courses call. If you want muscle and flexibility go for the B&Ws, and if you want ultimate speed and precision go for the Mordaunt-Shorts.

If the price of the two front-runners were the same, it would be an even closer call, but, as there’s a £70 price difference, the cheaper pair eventually wins out.
"the cheaper pair" mentioned above = the 685.

Seriously, i don't care if they are kevlar driver, aluminum driver, wood cone driver..etc... as long as they sound nice to my pair of ears, then they are good speakers.... the same to the watts rating.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 14, 2009, 23:47

Seriously, i don't care if they are kevlar driver, aluminum driver, wood cone driver..etc... as long as they sound nice to my pair of ears, then they are good speakers.... the same to the watts rating.

Hi,

Just want to comment a little on the above. So do you mean if a pair of speaker that are priced much higher than most, but to you, if it sounded good, you will accept it as a pair of good speakers given that it is much higher priced?

If the above is what you try to project, then i am getting a little confuse on your standpoint. You have right from the beginning feels that you will never consider steeping into TEG showroom because you feel that there is a "barrier" and this "barrier" is price. Now when Jason try to point out the difference between the 2 pairs of speakers you mentioned, you commented that whatever the specs are you do not care as long as it sound good. So if a pair of speaker that sound good and yet expensive, do you consider it a good pair of speaker?

Once again, if the answer is yes, then why aren't you giving B&W and TEG a chance? It is evident that B&W speakers are priced slightly above others for the simple fact that they are premium. It is also evident that B&W has won numerous awards and their specs though are not the best in the industry but the sonic performance are one of the leader. But you seems to be very against B&W leh....

Sorry if i sounded blunt but as i am a proud owner of a pair of 685 and a unit of 610, both bought from TEG and i just feel that some of your comments are pretty unjustifiable and you seems to be against TEG.

Once again, i am not trying to start another argument here but this is just what i feel and would like to voice out...

Sorry if i have offended anyone... PEACE.... :) :) :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 15, 2009, 09:38
I think what yihyan is trying to say is that it does not matter what material is used for the speaker or what technology is used, what wattage it can handle, as long as the speaker sounds nice/good to him, it is considered a good speaker. He did not mentioned about prices.

Taking the comparison of the 685 & Mezzo 2 speakers. The review was in a UK mag, I believe. Therefore UK prices are being compared. The 685 was £38x and the MEzzo 2 was £45x. The review comment that they are in overall, rated about the same in sound ability. Therefore, the 685, being £70 cheaper, won the test.

But in SIngapore, the Mezzo 2, I think is slightly cheaper (I could be wrong but definitley closer in value) than the 685. Therefore, since we will be paying in Singapore price, the UK test conclusion that on the 685 and Mezzo 2 is no longer "valid". As the test did comment that if the two models were priced similar in £, the outcome will be a closer call. And.. "If you want muscle and flexibility go for the B&Ws, and if you want ultimate speed and precision go for the Mordaunt-Shorts". So different people can go for different taste in music. If the 685 is priced at 18% less than the Mezzo 2 (taking £70 as the difference) in Singapore, the UK test conclusion will still be very much valid.

I think there is this confusion going on where the comparison are in uk £. Not in Singapore $. The reviews and awards won by the 685 are in UK, therefore, they are valued in £. But when we compare them here, we should compare them in Singapore $ value.

That is my opinion. Sorry if I step in anyone's toe again.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 15, 2009, 10:12
thanks cstanxpl, you pretty much summed up everything i wish to say :)

It is evident that B&W speakers are priced slightly above others for the simple fact that they are premium.
I don't think they enjoy this 'premium' in the UK market afaik.

Once again, if the answer is yes, then why aren't you giving B&W and TEG a chance?
And i say it one more time, TEG is not the only place we can listen to the B&W.....and in fact, I did went somewhere else to audition the B&Ws :)

It is also evident that B&W has won numerous awards and their specs though are not the best in the industry but the sonic performance are one of the leader. But you seems to be very against B&W leh....
seriously, i take those awards, spec and claims with a grain of salt....i am the one buying myself a pair of speakers...so i should be the judge myself :) i'm not going to buy the 685s becoz some angmoh claimed it to be the best speakers of the millennium for that price....

and since when i'm against B&W?

for the CM1, check my short impression posted in another thread... it was so good that i almost bought it home...(of coz that is before i audition other alternatives and compare their price)
B&W CM1(amp: cyrus 8vs2): very involving. the bass was fast, tight and just nice. Although the impact wasn't that great, but considering the size of the speaker, i have no complaint. The mid and high are all at the right place, imaging was great. I honestly feels the soundstage is bigger than the 684 :| weird.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 15, 2009, 10:25
And given the fact that the 685won the group test in April magazine issue (winning Tannoy EPOS and Dali even though it is the most expensive), does affirms its position.

Jason

Hi Jason, sorry to say this as I do not wish to deepen any more misunderstanding.

But the 685, by being the more expensive speaker in the group, had better win the test simply because it is expected to win due to it's higher price. If it is the cheapest in the group and won, then it is something to shout about.

The Dali gave it a good run for it's money though. And actually, given the price difference between the Dali and B&W, I actually expected the Dali to win. Just like when B&W won the test against the Mezzo 2. But then again, the mag made decision based on sound per £. And sometimes I don't get their way of thinking.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 15, 2009, 10:36
Hi Music Loft,
I I do not think yihyan is against TEG or B&W as a whole.  Maybe like some others, there is a pre-conception about us, the ex-distributor etc that goes back to ancient times.

And usual, we are thankful for our small group of supporters like you (but sorry no extra discount :) ).  btw, look out for the mailer going out to TEG base towards the end of month (hopefully).


Hi CStan, yihyan,
I understand the benchmark that you are using is local retail price.  I can only say that while I understand that some importer do not use the UK list price as reference and choose to sell it cheap for whatever reasons, there is no reason why we will follow.  We price it such way because the "local brand positioning" established in the past have to be adhered to.  Some other brands do not have the same brand positioning or recognitions.

Pricing it low does not mean more sales and erode brand image.  I can only guess why a 5 star rated product like Mz2 needs to price themselves low (maybe as the reviewer says due to the fact that you need to match it properly to avoid hardness at the HF.  I apologise if my guess is wrong) .  Similarly, there are products that we price it lower then UK retail price for our own reasons.

Yes, eventually you need to listen to both to be able to give a fair comment.  As CSTanxpl says, st really goes down to preference.  Take example, I always think CM7 sounds much better then 684/683 but my colleagues strongly disagree with me.  It's simply because I personally put more priority on certain area including the HF, finishing and looks.

And to ascertain if that UK review (done by an ang-moh) matches you, you have to sit down to properly listen to it, then you place a value to it.  If you write B&W off before properly listening and talking to the salesperson, then this will sure nag at you at some later stage unless you are a strong follower of your other speaker brand, which I am sure this cannot be true or it will ironically justify B&W branding strategy.

Thanks
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 15, 2009, 10:48
yihyan,

Here's why some are puzzled by your postings.

It would've sounded a lot more objective if you had simply said that you heard the 685, the Focus 110, the MZ2, etc, gave your impressions of them, discussed price with the retailer, and finally settled on the sound you liked best within your budget.

Instead, you complain about the premium pricing and get a price quote for the 685 over the phone.  I think even you would be aware that a phone quote or even the 1st quote you get when walking into a shop, is not gonna be the best price you can get.

In discussing the 685, you say specs are nothing so long as the speakers sound nice to your ears.  But yet when TEG invited you down for a listen, you don't take up their offer.

It's obvious that you are unhappy about the general B&W pricing in Singapore.  Well, from the posts here, you're obviously not the only one.  But if you are really searching for a B&W within your budget, it's just puzzling why you didn't listen to the 685 (according to your posts, you have heard the CM1 and the 684; hearing the 684 isn't equivalent to hearing the 685 as some people do find floorstanders and bookshelves very different)?  Then if you like it, discuss price.  If you don't like the price, then go for another speaker.  Why go on about the general premium pricing when you didn't evern bother about the one speaker that could possibly fit the bill for you?

I apologise if I read you wrong, but that's the impression I get when reading your posts (and I suppose others like music_loft saw it kind of in that light too).  No intention to pick a fight here.  Just pointing out how you post comes across to some readers.  Peace.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 15, 2009, 10:54
I don't think they enjoy this 'premium' in the UK market afaik.
And i say it one more time, TEG is not the only place we can listen to the B&W.....and in fact, I did went somewhere else to audition the B&Ws :)

Hi,
On whether B&W have premium positioning in UK. I think the UK and global market can be the judge.

I guessed that you listened it elsewhere and maybe I should audit the dealer's ability to sell 685... ???  Anyway, I think we do present a better environment to properly listen to the product.

But the 685, by being the more expensive speaker in the group, had better win the test simply because it is expected to win due to it's higher price. If it is the cheapest in the group and won, then it is something to shout about.

I think it always a matter of perspective on whether a more expensive speaker should win a group test.  take example Mz2 lost the comparison test because it is more expensive, then in the group test, you are saying Dali should win because of the cheaper price.

So, when you are all confused with all the reviews and comments, decide by whether it match you in terms of its design, its sound, its brand name, its 5 year warranty and some will say, if you like the reseller or not.  And to decide all that, you probably have to make an effort to pay the reseller a visit.

And to add a final note - we do not barricade the door if you don't buy from us.  That's a promise.  ;D

Regards
jason

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 15, 2009, 11:59
Instead, you complain about the premium pricing and get a price quote for the 685 over the phone.  I think even you would be aware that a phone quote or even the 1st quote you get when walking into a shop, is not gonna be the best price you can get.
i did get the 685 quotation in house when i was auditioning the B&Ws.

In discussing the 685, you say specs are nothing so long as the speakers sound nice to your ears.  But yet when TEG invited you down for a listen, you don't take up their offer.
After listening to the 684 and the CM1, i did request to listen to the 685, but the dealer told me the CM1 is a step up from the 685/4, as i was haunted by the highs of the 685, and in hope to listen to something better, i did not object his suggestion. After listening to the CM1, i crossed 685 out of my mind, i know i will not accept anything less than the CM1. Yes, maybe i'm wrong to write off the 685 just like that, but heck, i don't think i have the time to listen to every pair of speakers that are within my budget (there are just too many offerings in the market, not that i have very big budget). I'm easily confused if i listened to too many speakers at one time, and considering the CM1 is already the third pair i listened to that day, i somehow did not think twice for looking pass the 685.
I did not took up TEG offer for a listening session because, i'd already found and bought what i want/like, and to be honest, i travel in public transport, and TEG is not very conveniently located(to me). If accepting the offer by TEG makes you feel good, then well, i think i can arrange a session with them.

It's obvious that you are unhappy about the general B&W pricing in Singapore.  Well, from the posts here, you're obviously not the only one.  But if you are really searching for a B&W within your budget, it's just puzzling why you didn't listen to the 685 (according to your posts, you have heard the CM1 and the 684; hearing the 684 isn't equivalent to hearing the 685 as some people do find floorstanders and bookshelves very different)?  Then if you like it, discuss price.  If you don't like the price, then go for another speaker.  Why go on about the general premium pricing when you didn't evern bother about the one speaker that could possibly fit the bill for you?
i know i'm not the only one, and now i do think i should learn from them and refrained myself from posting here since i do not own any B&W gears and i'm also not a TEG fanboy :)
I believe i'm not the one starting the 685 ..... it all started after Jason's posting regarding WHF ratings. I merely pointed out the fact that WHF rating is somehow related to the price, and the 685 won becoz it is priced lower than the MZ2, that's all. Am i less qualify to point this fact out if i did not listen to the 685 beforehand? I beg to differ.  :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on April 15, 2009, 12:24
After listening to the CM1, i crossed 685 out of my mind, i know i will not accept anything less than the CM1. Yes, maybe i'm wrong to write off the 685 just like that, but heck, i don't think i have the time to listen to every pair of speakers that are within my budget (there are just too many offerings in the market, not that i have very big budget). I'm easily confused if i listened to too many speakers at one time, and considering the CM1 is already the third pair i listened to that day, i somehow did not think twice for looking pass the 685.
It's your perogative to listen or not to listen to a speaker, and it's a wise move not to listen to too many if you are concerned about getting confused.  The point is that having not listened to the 685, regardless of its price, you can't really tell whether it is value for money to you, can you?  At best, it's a guess.

I did not took up TEG offer for a listening session because, i'd already found and bought what i want/like, and to be honest, i travel in public transport, and TEG is not very conveniently located(to me). If accepting the offer by TEG makes you feel good, then well, i think i can arrange a session with them.
You going for an audition won't make me feel any better or worse, so don't have to trouble yourself.  ;)

I believe i'm not the one starting the 685 ..... it all started after Jason's posting regarding WHF ratings. I merely pointed out the fact that WHF rating is somehow related to the price, and the 685 won becoz it is priced lower than the MZ2, that's all. Am i less qualify to point this fact out if i did not listen to the 685 beforehand? I beg to differ.  :)
In case you didn't notice, I made absolutely no comment about the ongoing discussion you are having with TEG on the WHF review.  ;)

Anyway OT here, but hope you get the improved sound you are waiting for. (If can borrow CDP to replace the iMOD and see how.  If really need to try another amp, a high current amp would have a generous power supply -- big transformer(s) and capacitors, so will be heavy.  This applies to traditional amps.  The digital amps are different as they are more efficient (and therefore can be lighter), but I'm not familiar with them.)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: cstanxpl on April 15, 2009, 13:17
Sorry to be bringing this up again.

But since the product is MIC, I actually expect it to be cheaper in Singapore than in UK.

Afterall, it is cheaper to ship to Singapore than UK isn't it?

But................ let's not argue about the pricing anymore.

I fully understand TEG's dilema in their pricing issue and "the need" to price B&W speaker as premium products.

But just wanted to point out the fact that the pricing do not tally with my pocket.  :(
 
From my first post, I have mentioned that I was interested in the 685. Afterall, it was recommended to be used with marantz CD6002/PM6002 by WHF. As the sonic charactor of the 685 matches the marantz. But of course, mine system now is the SA8003/PM8003 (actually wanted to get the CD6002/PM6002 instead but that is another story). But the 685 should still match well.

But I have since decided to get another brand instead due to the high pricing of the B&W speakers here. But hey, maybe I will drop by to have a listen to the 684 / 685 / CM1. After all, my office is at Kallang Place. Very near TEG showroom. But that will have to wait anyway as my now pocket is in resession...lol. Don't worry, I won't say I am cstanxpl.  :-X

Yes...PEACE. :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 15, 2009, 13:22
I think I must write to WHF and ask them if Mz2 is priced the same as 685, what will be the result ???  :).  anyway,  I think the reviewer was very ambigious on his use of phrase "close call" and as usual left it to the reader's imagination.  From the debate, I guess everyone see it differently.

Perhaps when its the same price, the reviewer will then mention some ambiguous thing and again left it to open debates and controversy.  

And hopefully as a final note to this issue of WHF rating - there are so many more 5 star rating out there and group tests.  Some cheaper, some more expensive.  There are always reason why 685 was not pitched to, say 805s.  And it will always be debateable which 5 star is the best.  

The real question is not who will finally win in WHF but which one will win for you, as the consumer. For me, personally, work aside, I have never like Mordaunt-Shorts simply because of the design language - 5 star or not.  

jason
ps: walking from City Hall MRT to Adelphi is possibly the same for us from one of the 2 nearby MRT, but definitely less the better dressed babes.   Just thought I mention this.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on April 15, 2009, 15:06
Anyway OT here, but hope you get the improved sound you are waiting for. (If can borrow CDP to replace the iMOD and see how.  If really need to try another amp, a high current amp would have a generous power supply -- big transformer(s) and capacitors, so will be heavy.  This applies to traditional amps.  The digital amps are different as they are more efficient (and therefore can be lighter), but I'm not familiar with them.)
well, currently they are burning in...i will only listen to it once pass the 100h mark....and decide which way i will go....
1) buy a SB (as cdp really can't suit my listening habit)
2) bring in class D amp....
with both way needing to spend more $$, i'm hoping my current setup won't disappoint me...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on April 15, 2009, 15:13
Can also consider Sonos. Friend is getting one. Looks more upmarket and more "mac-like" but it is pricier. Benefit is that there is a free iPhone app that allows you to use as remote control.  Otherwise have to buy the touchscreen remote that costs as much as the base player unit.

Duet comes with remote with display (no touchscreen).

In either case, recommend using a good DAC with the players.

FWIW, I thought the iMod5.5G with Irukandji was not too shabby.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 15, 2009, 16:07
Sonos - cool device, very user-friendly.  I like.... :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on April 15, 2009, 19:29
I think we should not get too hung up over the pricing set, and the price in home country etc and why one dealer sells speaker A at one price but speaker B at another price even though they are the same price in the UK.

I listened to the 804 at TEG. I am quoted $xxxx. This is Singapore and I am really not interested to try and ship something as large as the 804 from another country. So, I will naturally compare the 804 with other speakers in that price range as set by the local dealers.

So, if a dealer prices a speaker more "expensively", then the product simply has to be good enough to compete with other speakers in that price range.

So for the 804, I compared it with other speakers like the Thiel 2.4 (which is close to the same price). The speaker that appeals to me more wins at the end of the day. Not the one which is better value, has better technical specs, better crossover, better driver materials etc. BTW, I am still thinking .... so no clear victor for the day.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on April 16, 2009, 00:40


And usual, we are thankful for our small group of supporters like you (but sorry no extra discount :) ).  btw, look out for the mailer going out to TEG base towards the end of month (hopefully).



Hi Jason,

What mailer is that about? If just some news, then can leave me out. But if it is interesting, never leave me out ok!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on April 16, 2009, 10:01
Hi Jason,

What mailer is that about? If just some news, then can leave me out. But if it is interesting, never leave me out ok!!  ;D ;D


Sort of expected this response.  I will only say it's some news plus something worth looking out for but it only goes out to customer's that have purchased from us.  In the meantime, you may like to update your records with us.

Cheers.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on April 16, 2009, 10:14
Aiyo,
Good things cannot miss.  Just pm you my updated details.  Pls include me in your mailing list.
Tia
Sort of expected this response.  I will only say it's some news plus something worth looking out for but it only goes out to customer's that have purchased from us.  In the meantime, you may like to update your records with us.

Cheers.
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: petetherock on April 17, 2009, 10:43
Greetings from Geneva!
Can't help posting here.

I do not work for B/W nor am I an employee for TEG.


I own both brands mentioned here, B/W & MA.

Firstly, I see no reason why others who own or do not own this brand cannot give comments on this brand, positive or negative, if they have tried it. That will help potential buyers.

Secondly,
Indeed dollar for dollar there are many brands, not just MA which offer prices lower than B/W esp if you monitor the price in their home country. This will influence the buying decisions of cost conscious buyers, of which Singapore will have many.This may indeed be a premium stragedy like Volkswagen, BMW or many other brands. MA will need to move more speakers and Marantz will need to do the same to match. But we still see people satisfied with their more expensive Rotels, Regas, Roksan amps, and other brands of speakers such as JM Lab, Triangle and even SVS (which we pay full price plus shipping).
Of other items, think IMAC, which cost more than PCs but attracts their own buyers and detractors.

Kudos to Jason for appearing here, although, I do know if the prices are directly comparable with the price performers, there will be more buyers.

Thirdly, the speakers produce their own brand of sound. So some will pay the additional price premium. Others won't. Thats life. Not everyone will agree with the MA type of sound. In a group test with other stand mounts a while back, a few disliked the sound from my GS 10, but hey thats why we have so many brands. If you want non-VFM, go see Linn, and some of the smaller shops in Adelphi....

Hmm... actually I almost feel like started a B/W owners thread again, just for contributions on tips & info :)

B/W is a bg target because they have a big fan base as their products sound good, but also attracts a lot of enemies or detractors as they really cost more than other brands locally.

BUT....

using Marantz isn't really fair. I have no real idea why they cost so little here - am glad for it. Most other brands are closer to their UK prices.

BTW another minus point for B/W, even in UK, is that you often get the other brands at good discounts off the SRP, but seldom do you see the B/W in the discount or bulk sale shops, even in USA.

I will sit down and enjoy my new 805s later, but I realised and I have been told that sometimes what I write influences other members, so always remember, it is always my personal taste and opinion.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on May 05, 2009, 20:53
hi all,
Mailers to B&W owners will leave next monday. Delayed due to artwork problems.

Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on May 06, 2009, 18:44
Hi All,

Would like to introduce the new MT-25 from Bowers & Wilkins.It is a new series that comes out to replace the MT-20.

The list price for MT-25 would be at $2560 (before GST), At this price, we will be throwing in a pair of M1 stands F.O.C for those who purchase this new package from us (The Experts Group)

Please note that the new list price for MT-25 would be the same as the old MT-20.

The subwoofer specs ASW608 (200W)-output, and the previous MT-20 system uses the AS2 (150W)-output


Installations and delivery is optional and non compulsory.

For those who are interested you can always drop by our showroom in Lavender to have an audition on the new MT25.

Thank a lot for viewing and hope to get more supports from all the member's in this forum.

Kenny Low
System Consultant
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
Sole Distributor for B&W, Classe, Arcam and Xantech - Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei
Sole Distributor for Audioquest – Singapore

A member of Singapore Service Star

e. & o. e.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 06, 2009, 22:45
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=4184

nice sleek black... specs???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on May 07, 2009, 12:08
Hi DJQ,

The MT-25 consists 5 pieces of M1 and also the ASW608. Basically in this package what you can notice is that the subwoofer. MT-25 uses the ASW608 subwoofer.

The MT-20 uses the AS2 subwoofer, and in terms of specifications, the AS2 has a max power handling of 150W and the ASW608 has a max power handling of 200W.

As you can see that the spec for the MT25 would be better but we are still offering the same price as the previous MT-20.

The color for the M1 consists White,Black and Silver and the subwoofer ASW608 color Black, Wenge and Redcherry

 
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=4184

nice sleek black... specs???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 07, 2009, 13:54
there is no MT-20 leh. MT-30 you mean? so the satelite spk is the same? just using different Subs.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on May 07, 2009, 15:27
You can log on to Bowers & Wilkins US website, and you will see the MT-20 is still there. Here would be the link:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=821&sc=ht

If you log on to the Bowers & Wilkins UK website they have taken the MT-20 out. Here would be the link:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=821&sc=ht

Yes you are right, the M1 remains the same just a different subwoofer, the new MT-25 uses the ASW608

there is no MT-20 leh. MT-30 you mean? so the satelite spk is the same? just using different Subs.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Crazyfrites on May 15, 2009, 02:22
Need to gather some advice from B&W owners here - i noticed that during the past week, there were 2 pairs of B&W 800 series (the old 804 and 805) being placed on sale in the other forum.

I believe the 805 was asking for $2500 but not too sure how much is the 804.

My question is whether if there has been any significant advancement in the new 800 series (vs the old) and if the old 800 series speakers are worth considering given the latest development in digital format for music, ht, etc.

Thanks in advance for your comments. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 15, 2009, 09:07
Need to gather some advice from B&W owners here - i noticed that during the past week, there were 2 pairs of B&W 800 series (the old 804 and 805) being placed on sale in the other forum.

I believe the 805 was asking for $2500 but not too sure how much is the 804.

My question is whether if there has been any significant advancement in the new 800 series (vs the old) and if the old 800 series speakers are worth considering given the latest development in digital format for music, ht, etc.

Thanks in advance for your comments. :)

so far the only really "old" models are 802 and 808.
the 804 and 805 sold arent really that old. mayb the owners have used them just over a 1yr or 2yrs. but the platform for the 804 and 805 is still the same. B&W maybe just revised the newer manufactured models with a "s". i rem i saw the 804 asking $4.8k  :o but thats correct if you really know its old & current retailing price tag to it. $2.5k is also already half priced compared to current retailing price.

so the 804 and 805 design has been around for quite some time. the only newer design is more on the 600series and CM series which undergone major changes.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: landis on May 15, 2009, 10:04
the 805 (805s or signature 805) is an excellent close-field monitor speaker, luxuriously built, elegant curvy enclosures and excellent twin terminal binding posts. a speaker that sounds as good as it looks, albeit a bit restrained and constipated ;D. cosmetically, the nautilus 805, 805s and the signature 805 all look about the same. but the signature trumps the nautilius sonically

suggest you buy a preowned pair if it is in mint condition, such speakers would normally be very well maintained. it will be a criminal waste of the speaker if you pair it with an amp less than twice its value

(http://img.adoosimg.com/7205ba9a4ba77c4740aa8fda3d8f-3-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 15, 2009, 10:12
The variation of 805 that I was aware of:
Nautilus 805
Signature 805
805S

Can see the changes in:
http://www.bwspeakers.com/bwhifi/reviews2005/805S_HFC_October_05.pdf
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on May 15, 2009, 10:28
More than $8k amp?  wooooo  :o
it will be a criminal waste of the speaker if you pair it with an amp less than twice its value
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 15, 2009, 10:40
The variation of 805 that I was aware of:
Nautilus 805
Signature 805
805S

Can see the changes in:
http://www.bwspeakers.com/bwhifi/reviews2005/805S_HFC_October_05.pdf

ahh... risky stratagem. yes it is.  :-X
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: landis on May 15, 2009, 10:42
More than $8k amp?  wooooo  :o

the "wooo" should be on the speaker that is still able to keep up and perform sonically with amps or pre/power twice its price. but that is only my opinion ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on May 15, 2009, 12:03
the "wooo" should be on the speaker that is still able to keep up and perform sonically with amps or pre/power twice its price. but that is only my opinion ;D

I am powering my 805s with a $3k AVR.. having said that they are still the best sounding bookshelves I have ever heard.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Crazyfrites on May 15, 2009, 15:01
i m sure the 800 series are great speakers. just not too sure wat is the right price level to pay for a used one. my wife has been hounding me :'( about getting the CM7 since she heard it. But since now got used 804 n 805 to choose from, wondering if it is wise to go for the used 800s or a brand new CM7 ???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 15, 2009, 15:18
I am powering my 805s with a $3k AVR.. having said that they are still the best sounding bookshelves I have ever heard.  ;)


like what bro landis said... if you got a pricy stereo amp. it will be even better. haha ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on May 15, 2009, 16:04
If you run through B&W's literature, they do tout significant improvements in the current models, eg new materials for the drivers, and new, simpler crossovers.

However, one common view I read is that the more significant step up in quality is when you get the models with the diamond tweeters too.

The 804 and 805 do not come with diamond tweeters.  So if it were me, for the 804 and 805, I would certainly look at the second hand ones of the previous models, because I think the savings could be more attractive than the improvements in sound quality.

Unlike landis though, I don't subscribe to the view that your amp must double the price of your speakers.  Instead, I believe in putting the larger proportion of the system budget into the speakers as that ultimately is the voice of the system.  For the amp, I simply look for a steoreo amp that can provide good, clean power with sufficient headroom..

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: landis on May 15, 2009, 18:49
Unlike landis though, I don't subscribe to the view that your amp must double the price of your speakers.  Instead, I believe in putting the larger proportion of the system budget into the speakers as that ultimately is the voice of the system.  For the amp, I simply look for a steoreo amp that can provide good, clean power with sufficient headroom..

actually I subscribe to the school of thought that advocates that a larger amount of the budget is to be used for the speakers in a typical hifi setup. My limited experience seems also to suggest that there is a greater sonic improvement/change per unit dollar invested in speakers than in any other component.

and In this case to suggest pairing the 805 with components twice its value speaks volumes of my admiration for it ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on May 16, 2009, 08:18
Thanks.  Well received.  Very nice  :)
hi all,
Mailers to B&W owners will leave next monday. Delayed due to artwork problems.

Cheers
jason
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 16, 2009, 12:35
Thanks.  Well received.  Very nice  :)

Any bros here going for TEG's celebration of achivevements on 29 May??
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on May 16, 2009, 13:42
Are you going bro?  Free drinks and food, why not?  But then again it might turn out expensive
Any bros here going for TEG's celebration of achivevements on 29 May??
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 16, 2009, 15:03
Are you going bro?  Free drinks and food, why not?  But then again it might turn out expensive

Most likely yes. I've got a feeling this trip is gonna be expensive given the discount voucher... ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 16, 2009, 23:44
Most likely yes. I've got a feeling this trip is gonna be expensive given the discount voucher... ;D

wah... when is it? i didnt receive any mailer...  ???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 17, 2009, 00:31
wah... when is it? i didnt receive any mailer...  ???

29 May. Got free makan some more... Just received the mailer yesterday.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on May 17, 2009, 01:11
29 May. Got free makan some more... Just received the mailer yesterday.

thats a Friday... wont be able to make it. anyway no problem.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Kopi on May 21, 2009, 19:03
Hi to all B&W gurus here.

One of my brother is getting a place and had done it up the living area with a low cabinet. So the only way he can put up the speakers is to have the "large" bookshelf type place on the cabinet.
Now, i have seen the B&W 705 and also the Sonus Faber Concertino. Have not got him to listen at them. Concertino looks very small. Not sure if it can throw the sound onto the living room.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on May 24, 2009, 14:34
Hi bro,

Suggest the 805s instead. And if i am not wrong, the 700 series is no longer in production.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on May 24, 2009, 14:35
Any bros here going for TEG's celebration of achivevements on 29 May??

Yeah! Received the "interesting" mailer too. Will be going i guess, if CO approved. HAHA...

Btw,Jason, what's the program like for that day?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 24, 2009, 15:47
Hi bro,

Suggest the 805s instead. And if i am not wrong, the 700 series is no longer in production.

805 is a good choice..if you hv the budget. Last saw the price was $4.4k.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on May 26, 2009, 11:41
Yeah! Received the "interesting" mailer too. Will be going i guess, if CO approved. HAHA...

Btw,Jason, what's the program like for that day?

Believe by now all those that had RSVP would have received the program.  sorry, that we did not get time to do this earlier. swarmed.

And as brief note for those still considering and have not RSVP, pardon that we will only admit RSVP guests that day for the simple reason that we have catered for finger food and need to have a more accurate estimate, otherwise we will get a big outcry of poor service.

As for program, I will only say this is not a sales event but a customer appreciation event. The program is simply there will be Lucky Dip, door gifts and lucky draws.  And to alleviate parking issues, there is free parking via our hired valet parking.

Thanks
jason

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Kopi on May 26, 2009, 17:28
Quote
805 is a good choice..if you hv the budget. Last saw the price was $4.4k.

This is for 805s? Brand new from "Experts"?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jeetung on May 26, 2009, 17:48
Believe by now all those that had RSVP would have received the program.  sorry, that we did not get time to do this earlier. swarmed.

And as brief note for those still considering and have not RSVP, pardon that we will only admit RSVP guests that day for the simple reason that we have catered for finger food and need to have a more accurate estimate, otherwise we will get a big outcry of poor service.

As for program, I will only say this is not a sales event but a customer appreciation event. The program is simply there will be Lucky Dip, door gifts and lucky draws.  And alleviate parking issues, there is free parking via our hired valet parking.

Thanks
jason



Too bad as I'm still on biz trip.  Enjoy guys !
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchthewaves on May 26, 2009, 18:53
Kopi,

My suggestion is simply to go and listen to both, bringing your own CDs.  If can, take the time to go on a weekday.  Less crowded and you're not rushed.  If like the sound, then seriously talk price.  That's the best way to figure out how much it'll really cost.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Kopi on May 26, 2009, 22:16
Quote
My suggestion is simply to go and listen to both, bringing your own CDs.

Thks for the kind suggestion. If you have read my initial posting, you will have noticed that I am not looking to buy for myself. My bro is not into hi-fi. Just wanted something decent that looks good for the new home.

I have heard a fair bit of B&Ws and Sonus Faber when I did my own "shopping" some time back but have lost touch with pricing of the current models. So just wanted some general advise on value and price performance as a starting point. Will definitely not want to go into frequency response graph, waterfall plots, harmonic distortion charts or lengthy auditioning. Some experience sharing will help me make a quick decision.  ;)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 27, 2009, 00:00
Thks for the kind suggestion. If you have read my initial posting, you will have noticed that I am not looking to buy for myself. My bro is not into hi-fi. Just wanted something decent that looks good for the new home.

I have heard a fair bit of B&Ws and Sonus Faber when I did my own "shopping" some time back but have lost touch with pricing of the current models. So just wanted some general advise on value and price performance as a starting point. Will definitely not want to go into frequency response graph, waterfall plots, harmonic distortion charts or lengthy auditioning. Some experience sharing will help me make a quick decision.  ;)



Hi bro kopi, I believe for audio performance, it's either you like it or not. Others' liking might not be your bro's liking. Ask your bro audition the shortlisted makes/ models of speakers and if he like the SQ and is within his budget, just grab it.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 27, 2009, 00:04
This is for 805s? Brand new from "Experts"?


Yep! Your 'Brand new' is referring to the model or the set itself?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Kopi on May 27, 2009, 11:07
Quote
Yep! Your 'Brand new' is referring to the model or the set itself?

Oh i was referring to the 805s model. Is $4,400 retail price for brand new unit or is it a pre-owned (used market) price.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on May 27, 2009, 11:17
Oh i was referring to the 805s model. Is $4,400 retail price for brand new unit or is it a pre-owned (used market) price.

Brand new from TEG.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on May 27, 2009, 20:57
Just 2 pages ago someone was mentioning the 805s could be found on the ads for $2.5k used.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: petetherock on May 27, 2009, 23:16
Kopi if you want to listen to the 805s, I have someone coming over Thurs night, after 8pm.

If the used set is too cheap, make sure it is the current series and that there are no dents or the speakers has not been damaged before, say from a fall.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: chase78 on May 29, 2009, 10:39
Just 2 pages ago someone was mentioning the 805s could be found on the ads for $2.5k used.

in echoloft... its the nautilus range hence its from like 8 to 10 years ago. :) the earlier range.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on June 05, 2009, 17:06
Hi All,

Some updates on the new B&W loudspeaker (CM9). This model has just won the 5-star award by Hi Fi Choice recently.

For those who are interested in the CM9, just drop by our showroom and talk to any of the sales person and they will be glad to help
you out on the auditions.

Please follow the link for the specifications on the CM9:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=3986
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on June 20, 2009, 11:32
Hi All,

We now have a MSN account for all those who wish to direct any questions for us, just feel free to add us:

Our MSN email would be:

ask@theexperts.com.sg

Thanks!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 22, 2009, 23:31
hi. Would like to get some recommendation on integrated amp for B&W 685. I just got 1 set and enjoying it very much. But feel that I not justifying it by using a budget amp such as poppulse T-amp to drive it. The following is my current set up for my budget PC audio setup.

Citypulse DA2.03eII with IeGo L80520 New Type C Powercord (Furukawa copper + 24K Gold Plating) 1.5m + AudioArt Cable IC-3 RCA interconnect 1m + Ecosse Cables The Composer RCA interconnect 1m --> POPPULSE T-Amp with Black Sands Cable Violet Z1 1.5m + Velodyne SPL-800i Subwoofer --> B&W 685 Speakers with AudioArt Cable SC-5 Speaker Cable 1.8m on ISOPADS by Sound-quest

The music files I am playing is just mp3 320Kbp or Flac. So just need an amp that can do a gd job at that. Nothing too high end.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on June 22, 2009, 23:43
too bad i sold my Cyrus 6vs2, if not can let you have a listen to it. i find the Cyrus range of int amps a good match to my DM601 S3. u can consider them. mainly if you drop by KEC, most of their B&W spks are powered thru Cyrus equipment.

cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 00:02
Yes. I noticed your thread and it  nearly, so nearly got me to buy it from u. But looking at the spec(I know I should not look too much into it) but hope to get something that is more than 50W per channel at 8ohm. Because I read on one of the review that I should get something around the 50W and above range to drive the speakers properly.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on June 23, 2009, 00:33
haha oohhh. then must go for the higher range 8vs2 or the newer 8XP d. pricer tag at over $2k......$3k with both 70W at 8ohms :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 01:19
haha... even I have that kind of money, dun think I will do it. My source is still mp3 only. That is y I never think about getting the 800 series. Will be a real waste. haha...

I thinking of Bel Canto actually. Class D amplifier.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on June 23, 2009, 08:04
and what makes u think bel canto is cheaper..? :P
anyway there was a used s300i on sale somewhere if i recall correctly..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on June 23, 2009, 08:53
woah... an overkill for BC to drive B&W... wasted...  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 13:04
s300i for sale??? where where where? I like it because it is small and compact for my desktop set up. Actually got no idea wat is the retail price. I guess in the 2000 range at most?


A waste??!!! Bel Canto is high end ah. sorry. Dun know so asking for recommendation here.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 23, 2009, 13:19
Bel Canto S300i is US$1995 list price. List price here should be close to S$3k IIRC.




Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 15:03
Thank u for your reply. Saw one on sale at $2000. Is it really a waste to use it for B&W 685 I wondering. Keep in mind I using for mp3 only.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on June 23, 2009, 15:10
150Watts at 8ohms. your 685 have neber sound so good before. heheh. try it you will know.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 23, 2009, 15:16
Your headfi journey still not complete ;) at the very least you should have already realized importance of lossless encoding (WAV/AIFF/ALAC/FLAC).

Seems a bit overkill for hifi if your source is just MP3 ;)

IMHO.

I don't know of the budget allocation mix for speakers vs amp. In my case, my biggest chunk of change went to the speakers... more than the pre amp + twin monoblocks set me back.

But the B&Ws are fairly easy to drive. If you are on a budget I know a fairly new Roksan Caspian on sale ;)

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=63329.0

(Roksan had some trouble driving some 4ohm speakers but should work fine with the B&Ws.. I was driving my old set with AVRs)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: synthesis on June 23, 2009, 15:21
Thank u for your reply. Saw one on sale at $2000. Is it really a waste to use it for B&W 685 I wondering. Keep in mind I using for mp3 only.


You probably should use 1k amp to drive 2k speaker rather than the other way around.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 17:42
I do appreciate lossless encoding but because my ipod cannot handle them, I keep 320kbps for normal song and only flac for those song that I really love.

Would love to try 150W at 8ohm if someone can lend me. Poison me enough and I might just wack it.  haha... in the future, if change to dynaudio, still can use. Heard they are hard to drive. Maybe thinking a bit too far. haha...

Since my 685 is about 1000, so should get a $500 amp will do?

Forget to mention my music preference. I listen to everything but I do love Rock and Pop so dun think Roksan Caspian will be a gd match.



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: synthesis on June 23, 2009, 18:15
Well since you already have 685, then just buy whatever you are willing to spend. NAD will do if you're on budget.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 18:22
Not really on that much of a budget la. Just dun want overkill for mp3.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on June 23, 2009, 18:40
Find it odd that ur ipod cannot take lossless? been using mine this way for ages..
How about those small amps like nuforce icon or trends since u are using it for desktop if i am not wrong? So many options. higher end maybe can look at peachtree audio nova? but nobody sells here.

IMO if just mp3 pls dun waste so much money. the more resolving the system, sometimes it make mp3 just sound worse n worse as u can perceive the cut-off easily..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on June 23, 2009, 19:31
Looks like I need to keep to lossless as much as possible from now on if I intend to go higher but that is another story.

I using poppulse T-amp now. Although it got quite gd respond from the shoot out, I thought it is not doing justice to the 685 I using. Thus looking for an amp that is gd enough for 685. Rock music must be as gd as possible. Clear instrument separation.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 23, 2009, 19:54
If there are any sellers, you can perhaps try to arrange an audition, if you are serious. Maybe bring your own speakers along if the seller is agreeable.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: anhtarus on June 25, 2009, 19:21
Looks like I've come to the right place to ask about B&W speakers.

My uncle from vietnam is looking to get a pair of 683 tower speakers for his home. Just wondering how much these'll set him back and where to go look at these in Singapore? Been trying to google location of display stores, but closes I've got is TEG as the sole distributor here in SG. Is it the TEG office at Lavender Place I need to go and check things out? Or another place I can go?

Thanks for any advice.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on June 25, 2009, 21:58
Looks like I've come to the right place to ask about B&W speakers.

My uncle from vietnam is looking to get a pair of 683 tower speakers for his home. Just wondering how much these'll set him back and where to go look at these in Singapore? Been trying to google location of display stores, but closes I've got is TEG as the sole distributor here in SG. Is it the TEG office at Lavender Place I need to go and check things out? Or another place I can go?

Thanks for any advice.

hi, yes they are the only ones selling the 683, the highest range on the new 600series. those cost abt $2.4k to $2.7k. sorry i forgot the actual price. the TEG in lavender is a showroom as well. just 1 advise for you. if you really to buy, make sure to ask got stock anot? stock in singapore showroom/warehouse or in UK?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on June 26, 2009, 11:15
Hi antharus,

Sorry to let you know that we can only sell if it is for use in the territories that we are representing (Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei).


Looks like I've come to the right place to ask about B&W speakers.

My uncle from vietnam is looking to get a pair of 683 tower speakers for his home. Just wondering how much these'll set him back and where to go look at these in Singapore? Been trying to google location of display stores, but closes I've got is TEG as the sole distributor here in SG. Is it the TEG office at Lavender Place I need to go and check things out? Or another place I can go?

Thanks for any advice.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on July 03, 2009, 18:02
hi, yes they are the only ones selling the 683, the highest range on the new 600series. those cost abt $2.4k to $2.7k. sorry i forgot the actual price. the TEG in lavender is a showroom as well. just 1 advise for you. if you really to buy, make sure to ask got stock anot? stock in singapore showroom/warehouse or in UK?

Hi DJQ,

Do you have any 683 order with us that have issue with the stocks?
To clarify, we do not have any stock issue with 683 at all.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on July 03, 2009, 18:07
woah... an overkill for BC to drive B&W... wasted...  :P

Hi DJQ,

I don't agree that it will be an overkill to drive B&W with Bel Canto.
In fact we do have a customer who owns a pair of 802D agree that our Arcam AVR600 drives it better than the BC.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 04, 2009, 11:15
Hi Kenny,

i agree and disagree on your statement. mainly when i said BC driving B&W being overkill, i did not mention the model. for that i apologise. but in this case statement points at bro fengshenwee getting a Bel Canto S300i which is 2times the price tag to drive the entry level B&W 685 bookshelf speaker. you do not need 150W class D amp to drive them, hence my statement overkill. why does anyone need to spend more to drive a entry level 685?
in your statement of 802D driven by Arcam AVR600, better is too much a simple word to use in this context. further more you mentioned BC. BC are mainly Class D power amps/int amp and theres many range so which did your customer use? i believe you provoked an arguement which is very subjective when it comes to customer prefereance.
i think it ends here as i have not heard 802D before and it would be interesting to hear from an experienced 802D B&W owner himself sharing. my 2cts
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ElyrionX on July 05, 2009, 01:34
Hi guys, thinking of upgrading my speakers in the near future but I got a couple of questions. Some of these questions are going to sound very basic but I'm a little new to this hobby so please bear with me.

Keep in mind my my usage for speakers is about 50/40/10 for games/movies/music.

So, if I'm looking at the 600 series of B&W speakers, do I really need a seperate amp to drive them? If I can drive them effectively with an AV receiver, what kind of AV receivers should I be looking at? I'm currently using the Onkyo TX-SR606 as my AV receiver. I know it's entry level so if I were to purchase B&W 600s in a 5.0 configuration (probably will be using a different brand of subwoofer), will the speakers be wasted since my AV receiver is only entry-level?

Anyway, when it comes to using an amp to drive a speaker, what are the advantages? Does it improve sound quality? Or is it mainly to achieve sound clarity at higher volumes?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 05, 2009, 14:22
ElyrionX

Most entry level speakers are designed to be driven fairly easily. Have used the older 600 series on my old AVRs before (including Yamaha's 1500, 2700) so I would not expect the 606 to have any major issues.

It's only the higher end B&Ws that would benefit from a beefier amp (that also complements its price tags).

If you do intend to upgrade to power amps in the future, just check if the AVR supports pre outs.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on July 05, 2009, 15:27
Hi ElyrionX 

Just curious, which other brand of subwoofer are you thinking of getting because i thought B&W does pretty good subs especially for the 600s subs. If i am not wrong, the asw610 and asw10xp won the What's Hi-Fi 5-star award.

Do you mean to drive the speaker with a dedicated stereo amplifier for music listening? If yes, i will say that it will definitely have an improvement in terms of the details and giving you a total different experience. But of course, i think the player will play a part too. Which amp you looking at?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ElyrionX on July 05, 2009, 15:59
Hey, thanks for the replies, guys.

I am currently using the Velodyne CHT-8R which is adequate for my room (which isn't very big). If I were to get the 683 or 684 floorstanders, the bass from the floorstanders and the Velodyne may already overpower my room so I see no need to get a new sub.

Actually, as stated in my original post, music listening is a pretty low priority for me so if I were to get an amp, it would be used mainly for videogames and movies. I haven't looked at or researched any particular amps yet since I am not sure whether I even need one in the first place.

So basically, I am just trying to get a feel of what kind of equipment I am going to need to make good use of the 600 series speakers if I were to pick them up in the near future.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on July 05, 2009, 16:24
It boils down to preference.

I've heard the B&W 804 driven by 1) Classe pre/power amps, 2) Arcam FMJ, 3) Cyrus 8, 4) Bel Canto S-300i.

The balance with all of the above are quite different. In the end, I prefer the B&W paired with 3) and 4), but some of course may prefer other combos. One of my friends likes 1) the best.

Hi Kenny,

i agree and disagree on your statement. mainly when i said BC driving B&W being overkill, i did not mention the model. for that i apologise. but in this case statement points at bro fengshenwee getting a Bel Canto S300i which is 2times the price tag to drive the entry level B&W 685 bookshelf speaker. you do not need 150W class D amp to drive them, hence my statement overkill. why does anyone need to spend more to drive a entry level 685?
in your statement of 802D driven by Arcam AVR600, better is too much a simple word to use in this context. further more you mentioned BC. BC are mainly Class D power amps/int amp and theres many range so which did your customer use? i believe you provoked an arguement which is very subjective when it comes to customer prefereance.
i think it ends here as i have not heard 802D before and it would be interesting to hear from an experienced 802D B&W owner himself sharing. my 2cts

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 05, 2009, 16:32
It boils down to preference.

I've heard the B&W 804 driven by 1) Classe pre/power amps, 2) Arcam FMJ, 3) Cyrus 8, 4) Bel Canto S-300i.

The balance with all of the above are quite different. In the end, I prefer the B&W paired with 3) and 4), but some of course may prefer other combos. One of my friends likes 1) the best.


yes i have that same sediments, most of the time i hear cyrus is thru the 804 they have displayed there. which induced my previous purchase of cyrus cdps/int amps. which is adeqate for my even cheaper old 601 S3. someone ask if i tried the S300i on my 601 S3, which i havent yet. so i will find time to post my findings later on.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Demosthenes on July 06, 2009, 11:30
Two cents from an ex-newbie who made the same trip you will be taking.

Before December of last year, I was still watching TV from a large Sony Trinitron (remember those??).

I'm now the very happy owner of a set up that is delivering superb bang for the buck.

My living room is also pretty small so I have the following:

2 X 685s
1 X HTM62
1 X Velodyne 800i
Denon 2809

I did not get any surrounds.

The 606s should be more than adequate to power a 5.1 arrangement with the 685 and 686s.  However, I have read that it might be a little light in wattage to drive the floorstanders.  Still doable, but you will not get the full oomph.  I have no opinion on this point since this is what I read and I have never experienced it personally.

One opinion I have is that the Onkyo 606 gives a much beefier and deeper bass performance than the Denon - that is the Onkyo signature.  Denon tends to be more rounded and refined.  If you are watching movies and playing games only, then go with the Onkyo.  However, I have had a great experience doing the same things with my Denon.


Hey, thanks for the replies, guys.

I am currently using the Velodyne CHT-8R which is adequate for my room (which isn't very big). If I were to get the 683 or 684 floorstanders, the bass from the floorstanders and the Velodyne may already overpower my room so I see no need to get a new sub.

Actually, as stated in my original post, music listening is a pretty low priority for me so if I were to get an amp, it would be used mainly for videogames and movies. I haven't looked at or researched any particular amps yet since I am not sure whether I even need one in the first place.

So basically, I am just trying to get a feel of what kind of equipment I am going to need to make good use of the 600 series speakers if I were to pick them up in the near future.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on July 06, 2009, 12:53
Hi DJQ,

It's not an argument here, just want to let you know that even if you spend $1000 on the 685 and I personally think that it is not a waste to drive the 685 with a amplifier that cost 2 times the price for the B&W 685.

Set aside the BC to drive the B&W 685, I do have my own friends driving his B&W 685 with the Arcam A38 which cost him around $3k.

Anyway why not? to drive the  B&W 685 with a BC? It's just a matter of personal preferences. :)

Hi Kenny,

i agree and disagree on your statement. mainly when i said BC driving B&W being overkill, i did not mention the model. for that i apologise. but in this case statement points at bro fengshenwee getting a Bel Canto S300i which is 2times the price tag to drive the entry level B&W 685 bookshelf speaker. you do not need 150W class D amp to drive them, hence my statement overkill. why does anyone need to spend more to drive a entry level 685?
in your statement of 802D driven by Arcam AVR600, better is too much a simple word to use in this context. further more you mentioned BC. BC are mainly Class D power amps/int amp and theres many range so which did your customer use? i believe you provoked an arguement which is very subjective when it comes to customer prefereance.
i think it ends here as i have not heard 802D before and it would be interesting to hear from an experienced 802D B&W owner himself sharing. my 2cts

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 06, 2009, 13:39
Hi DJQ,

I don't agree that it will be an overkill to drive B&W with Bel Canto.
In fact we do have a customer who owns a pair of 802D agree that our Arcam AVR600 drives it better than the BC.

you didnt mention it here as personal preference. only to realise it later. since we all admit its personal perference. i also share my personal preference to all, i do not spend the other way round.(knowing that will show how far you can push the spks level to) only to know later on the bottleneck is on the Spks. i guess only your friends does it that way. good luck.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on July 06, 2009, 15:24
Not only my friends, as most of my customer does do that.

It really up to that particular individual of what he thinks of a good amp to drive his speakers even when the price of the amp is 2 times of the speaker.  ;)

you didnt mention it here as personal preference. only to realise it later. since we all admit its personal perference. i also share my personal preference to all, i do not spend the other way round.(knowing that will show how far you can push the spks level to) only to know later on the bottleneck is on the Spks. i guess only your friends does it that way. good luck.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 06, 2009, 15:52
Guess when it comes to budget allocation, it's always a matter of personal preference.

I have been criticized for spending too large a proportion on my interconnects and speaker cables ;) and even then I know it pales in comparison to my friend's budget on power cords and power conditioners...

I don't doubt that the Arcam or the Bel Canto can drive the B&W 600 series well, but if budget is limited, as they usually are, would the guy who posted the original query be better served with a slightly cheaper amplifier and better speakers, like the CM series or even the 800 series? Or maybe invest in a better DAC or source. I think that's what DJQ is trying to say here. Otherwise, the speakers would be the weakest link in the chain here and the system is unbalanced. Most guys here would advocate spending the most on the speakers first, and I would tend to agree with that.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on July 07, 2009, 14:43
Proud owner of 685 here. $1000 is really cheap for speakers of these quality.

After reading the advise of many experts here debating over whether to use an amp 2 times the price of the speaker, in this case 685. I am lucky enough to get to borrow and do a home trial with the Bel canto and here is wat I feel. I am still a noob so bear with me. Never gd at expressing how I feel in words.

Firstly, I got no benchmark to compare the bel canto S300i against except with my budget T-amp Poppulse.

Anyway, here is the set up I use for testing.

Citypulse DA2.03eII with Clearer Audio Copper-line Alpha Powercord 1.5m + AudioArt Cable IC-3 RCA interconnect 1m --> POPPULSE T-Amp with Black Sands Cable Violet Z1 1.5m or bel canto S300i with Black Sands Cable Violet Z1 --> B&W 685 Speakers with AudioArt Cable SC-5 Speaker Cable 1.8m on ISOPADS by Sound-quest

clearly, bel canto is the winner here in the benchmark but we are comparing amp that is like 6 to 7 times of its price. The difference is day and night. The instrument separation is perfect and great punchy bass that I never heard before from my 685. This improvement is very important for me because I listen to a Jrock band call X Japan as their drum and electric guitar  is just crazy and fast. I always enjoyed their Music because they are do crazy fast rock to the point of speed metal and yet move u to tears with their piano ballads. Keep in mind their recording is like 10 years ago but bel canto can really present their music to the best I have heard so far. U can feel each and every drum beat in your face. Listening to them now and moving to the beat while typing.

If going for slam and bang, I feel bel canto S300i really can do the job very well. The problem now is I not sure if a cheaper amp with my 685 can do the job just as well or not. Did my 685 prevent the bel canto from shinning further? 2000 plus dollars for this level of improvement is it worth it? can it be achieve with something easier on the wallet?

All these question above I hope to be able to answer in the near future.



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 07, 2009, 15:51
buy buy buy  ;D talk about personal preference. haa!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: yihyan on July 07, 2009, 16:03
I'm now the very happy owner of a set up that is delivering superb bang for the buck.

My living room is also pretty small so I have the following:

2 X 685s
1 X HTM62
1 X Velodyne 800i
Denon 2809

Proud owner of 685 here. $1000 is really cheap for speakers of these quality.

have been away for just a few days...and quite surprised to come back and see that now the B&W speakers are considered by many as the best bang for the buck speakers.. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on July 07, 2009, 20:24
buy buy buy  ;D talk about personal preference. haa!

Dun poison me pls.  Evil DJQ  ;D

have been away for just a few days...and quite surprised to come back and see that now the B&W speakers are considered by many as the best bang for the buck speakers.. :)

I think we are referring to 685 only. Not B&W in general.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 07, 2009, 20:53
I think we are referring to 685 only. Not B&W in general.

Whatever the case, you've bought the set, so just go back and enjoy listening to them.

Forget the reviews and exchange rates and newer models, cos it's a never ending quest otherwise.

I kept the old 601S2s for many years. I think that they are easy to drive and easy to listen to. If I hadn't embarked on headfi, I probably wouldn't have changed them.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 07, 2009, 22:24
If going for slam and bang, I feel bel canto S300i really can do the job very well. The problem now is I not sure if a cheaper amp with my 685 can do the job just as well or not. Did my 685 prevent the bel canto from shinning further? 2000 plus dollars for this level of improvement is it worth it? can it be achieve with something easier on the wallet?

All these question above I hope to be able to answer in the near future.
heheh, i like to help ans your questions. cheaper amp cannot do that well. on the contrary it will do worst below your expectations as now you are tuned to look out for the Bel canto s300i sonic signatures....  ;D how abt i bring my 601 S3 to your place for a A/B? lucky havent sell cost me $669 yrs ago. well $2k is very worth it. but there is a option tat might go easy on your wallet... have you heard Cyrus yet... can go for resale 6vs2 or 8vs2. shld be below $2k.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on July 08, 2009, 13:02
heheh, i like to help ans your questions. cheaper amp cannot do that well. on the contrary it will do worst below your expectations as now you are tuned to look out for the Bel canto s300i sonic signatures....  ;D how abt i bring my 601 S3 to your place for a A/B? lucky havent sell cost me $669 yrs ago. well $2k is very worth it. but there is a option tat might go easy on your wallet... have you heard Cyrus yet... can go for resale 6vs2 or 8vs2. shld be below $2k.

yes... I can tell I am a bit hooked to the Bel Canto sonic signatures.... bad mistake to bring it home. lol Bel Canto s300i like cannot handle extreme highs. One of my songs at the extreme high frequency pt, the voice actually breaks. Scare me.

No. I haven't try Cyrus and bel canto yet. I will start looking for them on the resales market. I can wait. haha... patience is a virtue. "I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. "
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 08, 2009, 13:35
yes... I can tell I am a bit hooked to the Bel Canto sonic signatures.... bad mistake to bring it home. lol Bel Canto s300i like cannot handle extreme highs. Of course my songs at the extreme high frequency pt, the voice actually breaks. Scare me.

No. I haven't try Cyrus and bel canto yet. I will start looking for them on the resales market. I can wait. haha... patience is a virtue. "I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. I got self control. "

echoloft still got the S300i for sale... he wanna sell and you need to buy....  ;D chop chop. nobody buying only left you liao.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on July 08, 2009, 13:48
echoloft still got the S300i for sale... he wanna sell and you need to buy....  ;D chop chop. nobody buying only left you liao.  ;D
The one from Audio Basic right? :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hydeto on July 14, 2009, 14:48
Hi Guys,

I am planning to get a pair of 685 as my Front speaker and HTM62 as the center speaker for my 1st purchase.
May I know whether the B&W 685 speaker stand is height adjustable?

I will be planning to get a sub woofer and rear speaker later on when I got enough budget.
I don't intend to get the B&W sub as I trying to look for something more Value for money like SVS sub.
May I know whether a svs PB12 sub can match with the B&W 685 and HTM62 well? As I learn that Front, center speaker and sub woofer need to be good matching pair to get the best out of them.
Finally for my rear speakers, at 1st I am thinking about 686 but noticed their review was not really good and their price is not really cheap. Then I thot of another pair of 685 for the rear or maybe even upgrade to 684 for front and 685 to the rear. But my room is only about 4m x 3m thinking maybe the 684 will be overkill and I try not to overspend. Aim is to get something good enough n at good price.
Since I was told that rear speaker is mainly just handling surround sound, so it not as critical as front and centre speakers thus I will try to minimise my spending on them.
I wonder will it degrade the overall 5.1 experience by matching different manufacture speakers.
May I know any matching rear speakers for B&W 685 and HTM62 from other manufacture?
For eg. like Diamond 9.0,9.1, 10.0 or 10.1 or other brands?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jayou on July 14, 2009, 15:04
Maybe you can see if you can bring yourself to get the DS3.

If not, IMHO, you can get other brands


May I know any matching rear speakers for B&W 685 and HTM62 from other manufacture?
For eg. like Diamond 9.0,9.1, 10.0 or 10.1 or other brands?
Thanks.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hydeto on July 14, 2009, 16:30
Maybe you can see if you can bring yourself to get the DS3.

If not, IMHO, you can get other brands


mmm DS3, I think they are at higher price range. And seems to work well for bigger room. My room is quite small.
Maybe I just go for 686 for rear just for the matching looks etc. But what I dislike is having to paid for the speaker stand for both 685 and 686 which can add up to be a lot if getting a good stands.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 14, 2009, 17:23
can consider glass stands. get from city electronics. waferdale brand.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hamsterblur on July 14, 2009, 19:13

May I know whether a svs PB12 sub can match with the B&W 685 and HTM62 well? As I learn that Front, center speaker and sub woofer need to be good matching pair to get the best out of them.


To get the most seamless surround sound, the speakers should be of the same design to obtain matching timbre from all speakers. Not so critical to match the subwoofer. In fact, I think most bros here don't own matching subs. With subs, more impt to get enough power and proper positioning and calibration (through your AV amp's autocorrection e.g. Audyssey) to blend with the sound from the speakers.

My own setup is like rojak: Mark & Daniel fronts, B&W HTM 62 centre, SVS PC13-Ultra sub. The HTM62 is pretty decent for the money, but can sound slightly aggressive at times, although this means voices in movies come through clean and clear. But I'm a 90% stereo music and 10% HT guy, so the mismatches don't bother me so much.  ;D

If budget does not permit all 5 surround speakers to be of the same series, gd idea to start with the fronts and centre. Surround speakers are less impt cos they reproduce voices and music less often.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lithiumix on July 15, 2009, 00:17
can consider glass stands. get from city electronics. waferdale brand.

gotta polish the metal frequently... they oxidize easily...   :'(
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on July 15, 2009, 13:07
gotta polish the metal frequently... they oxidize easily...   :'(

well. yeah. i realise it too late. esle i would have sprayed clear laquer on it when its new.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: wyvern on July 15, 2009, 15:06
Hi Guys,

I am planning to get a pair of 685 as my Front speaker and HTM62 as the center speaker for my 1st purchase.
May I know whether the B&W 685 speaker stand is height adjustable?

I will be planning to get a sub woofer and rear speaker later on when I got enough budget.
I don't intend to get the B&W sub as I trying to look for something more Value for money like SVS sub.
May I know whether a svs PB12 sub can match with the B&W 685 and HTM62 well? As I learn that Front, center speaker and sub woofer need to be good matching pair to get the best out of them.
Finally for my rear speakers, at 1st I am thinking about 686 but noticed their review was not really good and their price is not really cheap. Then I thot of another pair of 685 for the rear or maybe even upgrade to 684 for front and 685 to the rear. But my room is only about 4m x 3m thinking maybe the 684 will be overkill and I try not to overspend. Aim is to get something good enough n at good price.
Since I was told that rear speaker is mainly just handling surround sound, so it not as critical as front and centre speakers thus I will try to minimise my spending on them.
I wonder will it degrade the overall 5.1 experience by matching different manufacture speakers.
May I know any matching rear speakers for B&W 685 and HTM62 from other manufacture?
For eg. like Diamond 9.0,9.1, 10.0 or 10.1 or other brands?
Thanks.


685 is quite value for $$ and you do not necessary need to get BW spk stands. Go to Electrades or KEC and take a look at the stands available and u shld be able to find a suitable one (btw BW stands are not cheap).

For LCR, try to get the same brand for best timbre match and for rear, u can actually consider diamond 9.1 or any other UK brand. As far as i've noticed, speakers from US and UK have got their respective characteristics (e.g. US - sounds brighter, UK - sounds warmer). If u budget allows, get another pair of 685 for the rear perfect matching. 

IMO subwoofer matching with the LCR is not really an issue. It's either u like the bass or not and u right in getting the SVS or velodyne sub.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: hydeto on July 16, 2009, 11:50
Thanks DJQ, wyvern, jayou and hamsterblur for the advises and information.
 :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on July 17, 2009, 13:44
Hi All,

Please note that we are now running a special upgrading exercise for all the owner of B&W speakers.

For those who owns:

1) B&W 685
2) B&W 684
3) B&W 683

4) B&W CM7

5) B&W 805S
6) B&W 804S

You may wanted to consider that, we are only taking in as 1 pair for each model, and for those owners that bought from us (The Experts Group Pte Ltd) will get a better upgrade prices.

For those who are interested in this special upgrade exercise, you can contact me directly via phone call, PM's and e-mail and you can drop by our showroom to speak to any of our sales guy's.

Please act fast or else you will be missing this opportunity for the speakers upgrades.

Cheers
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on July 17, 2009, 13:54
Hi Wyvern,

We are now offering to any of our customer that if they were to buy the B&W 685 or the B&W CM5 they can purchase the original B&W speakers stands @ 50% discount.  ;)

685 is quite value for $$ and you do not necessary need to get BW spk stands. Go to Electrades or KEC and take a look at the stands available and u shld be able to find a suitable one (btw BW stands are not cheap).

For LCR, try to get the same brand for best timbre match and for rear, u can actually consider diamond 9.1 or any other UK brand. As far as i've noticed, speakers from US and UK have got their respective characteristics (e.g. US - sounds brighter, UK - sounds warmer). If u budget allows, get another pair of 685 for the rear perfect matching.  

IMO subwoofer matching with the LCR is not really an issue. It's either u like the bass or not and u right in getting the SVS or velodyne sub.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on August 05, 2009, 15:21
Hey Guy's,

Been some time I never been in XP place before, planning to upgrade my whole system including speakers and my stereo ampl, any idea that where I can go to have an audition on the B&W 804S? heard from some of my frens that Adelphi? or better just drop in The Experts Group?Any ideas?

Since I'm changing my stereo amp also, anyone here can give me some ideas which amp would be better to pair them up?

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on August 05, 2009, 15:36
Hey Guy's,

Been some time I never been in XP place before, planning to upgrade my whole system including speakers and my stereo ampl, any idea that where I can go to have an audition on the B&W 804S? heard from some of my frens that Adelphi? or better just drop in The Experts Group?Any ideas?

Since I'm changing my stereo amp also, anyone here can give me some ideas which amp would be better to pair them up?
haven't seen the 804s on display in adelphi.. better off to see them in the experts group i think.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on August 05, 2009, 16:11
804s KEC has them. cheapest floorstander among the 8series.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on August 05, 2009, 17:39
Hmmm.. will be going down one day to have an audition on that liao..

804s KEC has them. cheapest floorstander among the 8series.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on August 05, 2009, 17:42
But Bro Quest says that haven't seen them ley..mhhh..might wanna go down this weekend and then if really don't have that, just drop by The Experts liao..

haven't seen the 804s on display in adelphi.. better off to see them in the experts group i think.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: KloneMerien on August 05, 2009, 17:43
Wahh..Only take in B&W ah? How about other brands of speakers?

Hi All,

Please note that we are now running a special upgrading exercise for all the owner of B&W speakers.

For those who owns:

1) B&W 685
2) B&W 684
3) B&W 683

4) B&W CM7

5) B&W 805S
6) B&W 804S

You may wanted to consider that, we are only taking in as 1 pair for each model, and for those owners that bought from us (The Experts Group Pte Ltd) will get a better upgrade prices.

For those who are interested in this special upgrade exercise, you can contact me directly via phone call, PM's and e-mail and you can drop by our showroom to speak to any of our sales guy's.

Please act fast or else you will be missing this opportunity for the speakers upgrades.

Cheers
KNY

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on August 05, 2009, 18:15
But Bro Quest says that haven't seen them ley..mhhh..might wanna go down this weekend and then if really don't have that, just drop by The Experts liao..
well.. i've not seen them at KEC but neither have i gone to KEC recently.. maybe worth giving them a call to check. KEC got more choices of amps though, i think.. there was also a 804 demo unit on same from TEG.. not sure if still there or someone else bought.

this is if u are dead set on B&W la.. else worth walking around to have a look. the 804s are not that cheap even if they are the cheapest in the B&W range.. :P there are some brands which are stock clearing as newer models are coming out (e.g. focal and usher)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 07, 2009, 11:22
Hi KloneMerien,

Just want to let you know that KEC no longer a dealer for Bowers & Wilkins, you can come down to our showroom in Lavender to audition on the B&W804S, as right now we are having a promotion for the 800 series speakers.

The 804S promotion would be as:

2) B&W 804S
    Usual Price: $7,200
    Promotion: Get a pair of FREE AudioQuest Speaker Cable (Type 8 2M pair) worth $500.00

*Price quoted before GST*
*Delivery and Installation is optional*

Just drop by and you can speak to any of the sales consultant.

As for the choices of amplication you can also consider Classe as well, do feel free to dropby our showroom to audition on that.

Hey Guy's,

Been some time I never been in XP place before, planning to upgrade my whole system including speakers and my stereo ampl, any idea that where I can go to have an audition on the B&W 804S? heard from some of my frens that Adelphi? or better just drop in The Experts Group?Any ideas?

Since I'm changing my stereo amp also, anyone here can give me some ideas which amp would be better to pair them up?


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on August 07, 2009, 12:31
well.. i've not seen them at KEC but neither have i gone to KEC recently.. maybe worth giving them a call to check. KEC got more choices of amps though, i think.. there was also a 804 demo unit on same from TEG.. not sure if still there or someone else bought.

this is if u are dead set on B&W la.. else worth walking around to have a look. the 804s are not that cheap even if they are the cheapest in the B&W range.. :P there are some brands which are stock clearing as newer models are coming out (e.g. focal and usher)

no wonder you didnt see them. KEC no longer the dealer... i like to see now they use the Cyrus to drive which brand...  :D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 19, 2009, 16:50
Hi All,

This would be a new update for the Bowers and Wilkins loudspeaker. Please note that the CM9 (Flagship floorstander from the fabulous new CM range) has won the EISA (European Imaging and Sound Association) award under the category of European Loudspeaker 2009-2010 and not to forget that it is also a 5 star rated loudspeaker in HiFi Choice magazine as well.

For more information on that, just feel free to visit the EISA website:
http://www.eisa.eu/awards/audioht

And for those who wanted to check out on the specifications of the speaker, just follow the given link:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=3986&terid=3992

And for those who wanted to have an audition on the B&W CM9, you are welcome to drop by our showroom. Feel free to talk to any of my colleagues regarding the CM series speakers as well as others.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on August 20, 2009, 01:46
After about a month since I post asking for precious advise on the amp for 685, I finally got my hands on Bel Canto S300. Result.... I'm loving it. It is still more suitable for the kind of music I love. Great dynamics and slam. Full mid range. Of course. It is not perfect but for the amount of money I willing to spend, I cannot complain.

Tried a few amps during this period of time and has being a wonderful experience.

Thank u all for your advise and poisoning especially DJQ.

My next upgrade would likely be speakers.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on August 20, 2009, 08:37
After about a month since I post asking for precious advise on the amp for 685, I finally got my hands on Bel Canto S300. Result.... I'm loving it. It is still more suitable for the kind of music I love. Great dynamics and slam. Full mid range. Of course. It is not perfect but for the amount of money I willing to spend, I cannot complain.

Tried a few amps during this period of time and has being a wonderful experience.

Thank u all for your advise and poisoning especially DJQ.

My next upgrade would likely be speakers.


haha yes... i saw the S300 on sale last few days... very fast you got it. if you have a chance do try the balanced XLRs. spks will need to be replaced liao.  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 20, 2009, 10:35
My next upgrade would likely be speakers.

Didnt you just BUY the speakers!???
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Who? on August 20, 2009, 11:03
Didnt you just BUY the speakers!???

Poison sure spreads faster than wild fire here.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on August 20, 2009, 12:24
hahaha his listening sense just suddenly gone beyond what the speakers can provide...  :-X
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 20, 2009, 12:34
Hi fengshenwee,

Heard that your next upgrade would be the speakers? How about the B&W CM9, you are welcome anytime to drop by our showroom to have an audition on that, other speakers as well.

Cheers,

After about a month since I post asking for precious advise on the amp for 685, I finally got my hands on Bel Canto S300. Result.... I'm loving it. It is still more suitable for the kind of music I love. Great dynamics and slam. Full mid range. Of course. It is not perfect but for the amount of money I willing to spend, I cannot complain.

Tried a few amps during this period of time and has being a wonderful experience.

Thank u all for your advise and poisoning especially DJQ.

My next upgrade would likely be speakers.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 20, 2009, 12:59
Hey Bro,

Sorry lah, my boss intention is to let existing B&W user have better value for their current and new B&W speakers.

Anyway what speakers you are using right now? Will try to see if what I can do for you. :)

Wahh..Only take in B&W ah? How about other brands of speakers?

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: clitang on August 21, 2009, 14:16
Hi

I am looking to upgrade my current speaker to B&W802. Any bro here who owned the 802 or any experenice with this pair of speaker can share thier experience. What gear are you using to drive this pair of speakers?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 21, 2009, 15:45
Hi Clitang,

As over here in our showroom, we do have the B&W 802D for audition, and we do pair them up with the Classe CA-M400 which is a 400Watts monoblock to drive them, and it is also paired up with the Classe CP-500 pre amp.

Anyway just want to let you know that any amplification will be able to drive any of the B&W speakers. Just want to check with you what amplifier are you using now? and I do have a few customer who drive them with Bel Canto, MF and Mac as well.

But to my liking is that the Classe sounds good to me.

(p/s: Abbey Road is pairing their 800 Series speaker with Classe as well) :)

You can always drop by our showroom to have an audition on that.

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on August 21, 2009, 18:53
honestly, i also like the Classe and abbey road combo with B&W, but it costs quite abit to get this whole setup.. i don't quite think the Classe price here is that competitive as well.. but that's nothing new in this thread. :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on August 22, 2009, 20:31
Didnt you just BUY the speakers!???



haha yes... i saw the S300 on sale last few days... very fast you got it. if you have a chance do try the balanced XLRs. spks will need to be replaced liao.  ;D


hahaha... upgrade never ends as long the pocket allows. But will only do it in 2 months time. Got something else to burn in first.


Yes. That is the one thing that make me go for S300. The XLRs.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 24, 2009, 17:46
Hi fengshenwee,

Glad to hear that you will be upgrading your speaker in 2 months time..

B&W I would sugguest :D lolz

Cheers


hahaha... upgrade never ends as long the pocket allows. But will only do it in 2 months time. Got something else to burn in first.


Yes. That is the one thing that make me go for S300. The XLRs.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: fengshenwee on August 25, 2009, 00:54
Hi fengshenwee,

Glad to hear that you will be upgrading your speaker in 2 months time..

B&W I would sugguest :D lolz

Cheers


I thought u might say that. lol
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on August 25, 2009, 08:31
problem is... how much is your 685 trade in? saw some guy trying to sell his old UK made 601 S3 at $500. wow. :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 25, 2009, 13:30
When anyone comes to me then I try to give him a good price lor.. :D

problem is... how much is your 685 trade in? saw some guy trying to sell his old UK made 601 S3 at $500. wow. :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on August 25, 2009, 16:56
When anyone comes to me then I try to give him a good price lor.. :D


i am sure you do. but i am keeping my UK made DM 6series S3. i am only missing the sub.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 25, 2009, 17:00
Too bad I sold my matching B&W ASW1000 sub years ago. Also UK made.

But I don't miss it ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: badbad2000 on August 26, 2009, 15:04
Hi KloneMerien,

Just want to let you know that KEC no longer a dealer for Bowers & Wilkins, you can come down to our showroom in Lavender to audition on the B&W804S, as right now we are having a promotion for the 800 series speakers.

The 804S promotion would be as:

2) B&W 804S
    Usual Price: $7,200
    Promotion: Get a pair of FREE AudioQuest Speaker Cable (Type 8 2M pair) worth $500.00

*Price quoted before GST*
*Delivery and Installation is optional*

Just drop by and you can speak to any of the sales consultant.

As for the choices of amplication you can also consider Classe as well, do feel free to dropby our showroom to audition on that.


How come? That's the most convenient place to go audition B&W. I bought my 685 from them, very good service. tot of go audition 683 and a center speaker.  :(
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 27, 2009, 13:06
Hi badbad2000

Right now you can drop by our showroom in Lavender to checkout on those B&W 683,

Yes, we can provide good service as well, and not to forget that we have been accredited with the Singapore Service Star award.

Moreover it is more comfortable in a B&W showroom as well :D

Just let me know when you want to come down and I shall hook the B&W 683 for you. :)

How come? That's the most convenient place to go audition B&W. I bought my 685 from them, very good service. tot of go audition 683 and a center speaker.  :(
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 27, 2009, 13:10
Hi DJQ,

Glad to hear that you are still a supporter for B&W loudspeakers. :D

Anyway if you are missing the sub then you might want to consider the ASW610, ASW610XP or even the PV1? :D

Just let me know when you are free to drop by our showroom?

i am sure you do. but i am keeping my UK made DM 6series S3. i am only missing the sub.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: JadeIceGreen on August 30, 2009, 10:09
Hey all..

I am planning to match a pair of 685s to NAD C545BEE & NAD C326BEE as my first foray into a proper system. Any comments or feedback on this match up?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 30, 2009, 11:17
Hey all..

I am planning to match a pair of 685s to NAD C545BEE & NAD C326BEE as my first foray into a proper system. Any comments or feedback on this match up?

Thanks!

Have you been reading WHF? :)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: JadeIceGreen on August 30, 2009, 11:30
Have you been reading WHF? :)



Yes, and the NAD thread. They seem to have very good reviews from users as well.
Any personal recommendations?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 30, 2009, 11:51
If this is your first system, I doubt you will be disappointed :P

But I thought it's interesting to note another buyer of B&W685 is already looking to upgrade within months of that purchase ;)

Since you are asking me, I'd recommend auditioning the speakers in the similar price range at the showrooms. Most dealers would setup the systems to the best of their ability to showcase that particular speaker. IMHO that's a good thing cos that allows you to see the full potential of the speaker, even if you aren't getting the same amp and CD player. The reason for this round of auditions is to identify the sound qualities you are looking for. Not all of us look for the same traits. Some might find a particular speaker too bright.. others might find it detailed. Some prefer a more warm sound, others might find it too wooly. etc etc

Spend as much as you can on the speakers. In terms of technology, they hardly age as much. My last set of speakers lasted over 10 years. I know of many even older.

Then get a matching amp that can drive the speakers well. I find that most entry-level CD players are of a similar level, differing a little in house sounds only.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: JadeIceGreen on August 30, 2009, 12:47
If this is your first system, I doubt you will be disappointed :P

But I thought it's interesting to note another buyer of B&W685 is already looking to upgrade within months of that purchase ;)

Since you are asking me, I'd recommend auditioning the speakers in the similar price range at the showrooms. Most dealers would setup the systems to the best of their ability to showcase that particular speaker. IMHO that's a good thing cos that allows you to see the full potential of the speaker, even if you aren't getting the same amp and CD player. The reason for this round of auditions is to identify the sound qualities you are looking for. Not all of us look for the same traits. Some might find a particular speaker too bright.. others might find it detailed. Some prefer a more warm sound, others might find it too wooly. etc etc

Spend as much as you can on the speakers. In terms of technology, they hardly age as much. My last set of speakers lasted over 10 years. I know of many even older.

Then get a matching amp that can drive the speakers well. I find that most entry-level CD players are of a similar level, differing a little in house sounds only.



Thanks for the advice. I'll look around and listen more, maybe I should save up and get 805S..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on August 30, 2009, 12:54
Thanks for the advice. I'll look around and listen more, maybe I should save up and get a 805S..
If you like the B&W house sound but are not sure about it, nothing wrong with buying a used 685 to tide you through this period while saving up. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 30, 2009, 13:25
Don't think he's gone for an audition of the 685s yet. Just based on WHF reviews.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on August 31, 2009, 22:43

But I thought it's interesting to note another buyer of B&W685 is already looking to upgrade within months of that purchase ;)


Hi bro, i am also a user of the 685. can enlighted with some insights?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: isplash on September 03, 2009, 17:05
Hi, any 800 series user using single wiring for their speakers?

I used to connect my single wiring to the lower post (LF) on my 804s. This is usually the recommendation for most speakers manufacturer with bi-wiring terminals.

But yesterday, after reading the manual i realised that B&W actually recommend to feed the cable to the upper post instead. According to B&W, the ear is at its most sensitive in the midrange. But this only affect the 3 ways speaker in this series. For single wiring on 805s still feed to the lower post. (LF/MF) 

Tried that last night.. indeed that's a different. After the swap from the lower post(LF) to the upper post (MF/HF), the sound stage and imaging improved and the vocal is also not as harsh.

Anyone have the same experience?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 03, 2009, 17:50
bro, reason is simple. the solid metal posts that connects both the HF/LF. what material iszit made of. suggest you use proper jumper wires instead. i some cases some tie them cross setting.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: isplash on September 03, 2009, 17:57
bro, reason is simple. the solid metal posts that connects both the HF/LF. what material iszit made of. suggest you use proper jumper wires instead. i some cases some tie them cross setting.

I am using the jumper cables.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 03, 2009, 22:21
I am using the jumper cables.

ahh the jumper is?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: isplash on September 03, 2009, 23:37
ahh the jumper is?

Maybe my earlier post has caused confusion. Actually what i want to share is for the 800 series it works a bit different from other series. B&W actually recommend the speaker cable to feed into the upper terminal (MF/HF) instead of the lower terminal (LF) during single wiring except for the 805s. Cos 805s, the upper terminal is for HF and the lower terminal is for MF/LF.
Guess some may have overlooked this part in the manual.


But of cos, apart from what B&W recommend..they are also other matters use by others.  :D
 

 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on September 04, 2009, 08:14
Maybe my earlier post has caused confusion. Actually what i want to share is for the 800 series it works a bit different from other series. B&W actually recommend the speaker cable to feed into the upper terminal (MF/HF) instead of the lower terminal (LF) during single wiring except for the 805s. Cos 805s, the upper terminal is for HF and the lower terminal is for MF/LF.
Guess some may have overlooked this part in the manual.


But of cos, apart from what B&W recommend..they are also other matters use by others.  :D
What DJQ is saying is that you are actually hearing the difference, not between connecting the HF or LF binding posts, but the jumper wire which runs between these two. This could be a possible choke point and why you find it sounds different when you attach to different binding posts - because the jumper wire isn't as transparent or doing its job that well. Else there should not be such a big difference when you switch. Basically, in your setup, the speaker cable sounds better than the jumper wire, if I read it correctly.

So his question was - what jumper wire are you using. I would like to add: what speaker cable are you using?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 04, 2009, 08:43
 ;) thumbs up.
i do not have a picture to show, but i remember i saw 1 bro here "Cash" just strip of the rubber inslulation on the mid section and end section on his Belden 814. So without the need to use jumper he uses the same speaker wire tie them bare direct to his speaker binding posts.

as to your info on the 800series, i have no recollection. maybe Kenny will be able to provide more details?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: isplash on September 04, 2009, 16:35
Hi Quest, thanks for the explanation. Initialy i didn't get what DJQ was telling me  :P

Currently, I'm using the original jumper and QED XT300 for my speaker cable.   

Do you guys suggest getting a decent jumper or another pair of XT300 for bi-wiring.

Thanks for the advise : )
 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on September 05, 2009, 02:46
Hi Quest, thanks for the explanation. Initialy i didn't get what DJQ was telling me  :P

Currently, I'm using the original jumper and QED XT300 for my speaker cable.   

Do you guys suggest getting a decent jumper or another pair of XT300 for bi-wiring.

Thanks for the advise : )
a decent jumper will do. getting another set of XT300 seems like a waste.
alternatively can just take a small piece of XT300 to use as the jumper and see if that works.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on September 08, 2009, 12:11
Hi isplash,

Yes, what you mention in here is what I have personally experienced in my B&W 804S, but 1st of all nearly missed out your new discovery on that. :)

Based on the user manual, it is recommended that if you were using any full range speaker cables you are to encourage to plug them to the HF connector on the speakers itself.

As per tele conversed on the 7/7/2009 1130 hours, I did explain to you that why you experienced a harsh vocal and strong low frequency is that by pluggng it your speaker cables to the LF you are directly feeding the signal to the LF, and not the HF, and this does means that the signal that suppose to go to HF is being transfered by the binding post itself.

I have tested with the AudioQuest Jumper cables and I do find out that due to the material of the jumper cables itself is silver coated, the overall sounding have improved no matter if I plug them to the LF or the HF on the speakers itself. :D

Maybe you can drop by and then I will test that out for you, and you can take this opportunity to test out some of the speaker cables from AudioQuest?

Cheers.
KNY

Hi, any 800 series user using single wiring for their speakers?

I used to connect my single wiring to the lower post (LF) on my 804s. This is usually the recommendation for most speakers manufacturer with bi-wiring terminals.

But yesterday, after reading the manual i realised that B&W actually recommend to feed the cable to the upper post instead. According to B&W, the ear is at its most sensitive in the midrange. But this only affect the 3 ways speaker in this series. For single wiring on 805s still feed to the lower post. (LF/MF)  

Tried that last night.. indeed that's a different. After the swap from the lower post(LF) to the upper post (MF/HF), the sound stage and imaging improved and the vocal is also not as harsh.

Anyone have the same experience?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on September 08, 2009, 12:26
Hi isplash,

After the changes on the AudioQuest jumper cables, I did plug in my favourite AQ RKT88! featuring the patented 48-volt Dielectric Bias System.

Greatly improved performance is made possible by a constant 48 volt charge on all Rocket 88's insulation. AQ DBS system creates an electrostatic field which causes the molecules of the insulation to all point in the same direction. This minimizes the multiple nonlinear time-delays. Sound appears from a surprisingly black background with unexpected detail and dynamic contrast!

I do think that you should try that one day :D

Cheers.
KNY

Hi Quest, thanks for the explanation. Initialy i didn't get what DJQ was telling me  :P

Currently, I'm using the original jumper and QED XT300 for my speaker cable.   

Do you guys suggest getting a decent jumper or another pair of XT300 for bi-wiring.

Thanks for the advise : )
 

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: distagon on September 19, 2009, 01:35
Hello Guys,

I am thinking of the 805s.
Any amp to recommend?
<1k will be great.

It will be entirely for Music; not HT.

Thanks a milllion,
George
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: nexski on September 19, 2009, 23:42
Hello Guys,

I am thinking of the 805s.
Any amp to recommend?
<1k will be great.

It will be entirely for Music; not HT.

Thanks a milllion,
George

Can afford 805S yet budget for amp is <1K? What a weird combination.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 20, 2009, 00:17
Hello Guys,

I am thinking of the 805s.
Any amp to recommend?
<1k will be great.

It will be entirely for Music; not HT.

Thanks a milllion,
George

bro <$1k will not not be doing your 805s justice.  go for the Cyrus 6xp or 8xp d. the cheapest being abt $2k plus. then you are not way back.

dun trust me, go listen for yourself. i find all B&W goes well with Cyrus. fully reveals the B&W potiential to you.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: distagon on September 20, 2009, 22:17
cannot help it lei; saw the 805 and felt in love with it lor...

maybe upgrade amp later.:(

anyone using rotel? i check the internet and they seems good but I am still a newbie.:)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on September 21, 2009, 23:40
Hi bro,

I cannot afford 805 yet but heard it with the Arcam at TEG showroom. Very impressive for the way a pair of bookshelves perform with the Class A/B Amp.
Maybe you should audition it and talk to their salesman kenny. For all you know, you may decide to stretch your dough slightly..... ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on September 22, 2009, 00:00
well if u absolutely love the B&W sound.. i guess arcam has a nice synergy with it.
maybe can ask for a package. :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on September 23, 2009, 17:02
Hi George,

Nearly miss your post on this, come to know that you are interested in the B&W 805S.

But then if you were to drop by my showroom you will have a few stereo integrated amp that you can choose from.

But in the end of the day a better amplification will give you more details if your wallet allows you to do so..lolz :D,

If yes you might want to consider the Arcam A38? which is one of the winner in group test which HiFi Choice (July 2009 issue) have conducted.

Cheers
KNY

Hello Guys,

I am thinking of the 805s.
Any amp to recommend?
<1k will be great.

It will be entirely for Music; not HT.

Thanks a milllion,
George
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on September 23, 2009, 17:06
Hi Quest,

Thanks a lot for dropping by to have an audition on the Arcam A38 amplification, as I do personally think that the Arcam is really a good pairing up for B&W speakers, really like the warm sounding from them.

That's what i always do paired them up with my B&W 804S that has a maximum power handling of 200W. :)

By the way the Arcam A38 is a winner of group test in HiFi Choice (July 2009 issue).. :D

Cheers.
KNY

well if u absolutely love the B&W sound.. i guess arcam has a nice synergy with it.
maybe can ask for a package. :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on September 23, 2009, 19:01
Hi kenny, you are welcome. I only listened to the Arcam because I was not familiar with the Classe so was trying to find the difference by doing a comparison. My budget is around the Classe integrated price range and I was looking at that model as you previously had a sale on it.

However, as I mentioned that day, the B&W speakers felt biased, so much so that I could not really tell the character of the amplifiers.. hence it will be too tough a purchase decision for me to make in such a situation. This is why I asked if there were other dealers - so I could hear other pairings. This is especially since the B&W setups did not exhibit the characteristics i look for such as high transparency and transients/dynamics - so risk factor is higher that the power amp may also not have the characteristics that I am seeking.

Nonetheless, think I am digressing from this B&W thread by talking about power amps. Thanks for the attentive service provided.

Was surprised that the CM9 actually sounded closer to the 800 series than I thought previously, even though admittedly it does have a different sound.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 24, 2009, 00:14
as i recalled the tweeter and the mid FST cone is the same. i still have a liking for the mid range driver FST cones. it handles the mid freqs very differently. was targeting the 683 with the FST in the 1st place too. to any B&W owners heck the normal drivers and go for the floodstanding model with FST cone. you will realise what you were lacking behind.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Bongteo on September 24, 2009, 14:43
Saw this in Taiwan, not sure has anyone seens this or been posted here before, anyone know what model is this? Look very interesting.  :)

(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww181/bongteo/DSC00191.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on September 24, 2009, 15:22
display orament? :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on September 28, 2009, 12:31
Hi Bongteo,

Nearly missed your reply regarding this beauty here, was out from the showroom for few days.

This is the B&W Emphasis loudspeaker. By the way this has already been phased out in the early 90s.

Here would be some of the introduction of the speakers: (will post the specifications on a seperate reply)

Product Summary
==>Art meets music. This unique speaker achieves the perfect balance of aesthetic appeal to
      eye and ear. Beautifully designed, and yet still a statement of serious audio intent, this
      speaker delivers superb power handling, low frequency response and minimal distortion.

Technical highlights (Description)

Tweeter: B&W's Tweeter technology ensures that the sound remains focused
and time-sensitive and that the stereo-image is presented with unparalleled three
dimensional accuracy.

Kevlar®: B&W developed and patented the method of using Kevlar® for
loudspeaker cones to reduce unwanted standing waves. DuPont originally
created Kevlar® for use in bulletproof vests.

Saw this in Taiwan, not sure has anyone seens this or been posted here before, anyone know what model is this? Look very interesting.  :)

(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww181/bongteo/DSC00191.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on September 28, 2009, 13:02
Hi Bongteo (and to all who are interested to know about the spec of this speaker):

Description: 4th order vented box
Drive Unit: 1 x 25mm (1-inch) magnetic fluidcooled,
                metal dome - high frequency
                1 x 165mm (6.5-inch) high powered
                Kevlar® cone - bass/midrange
Frequency Response: 49Hz - 20kHz ± 3dB on reference axis
Sensitivity: 87dB spl (2.83V 1m)
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms (minimum 4 ohms)
Power Handling: 50W - 120W into 8 ohms
Dimensions: Height: 1370mm
                   Width: 420mm
                   Depth: 360mm
Finishes: Gloss White and Gloss Black

Cheers.
KNY
Saw this in Taiwan, not sure has anyone seens this or been posted here before, anyone know what model is this? Look very interesting.  :)

(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww181/bongteo/DSC00191.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Bongteo on September 29, 2009, 18:12
Nice  :) can't tell this is a 90's design by the looks.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 03, 2009, 15:26
Beauty and deisgn of any of B&W won't age..lolz..  ;D

Nice  :) can't tell this is a 90's design by the looks.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on October 06, 2009, 02:20
Hi..

Backside itchy and went down to TEG to listen to the floorstanders. Kenny recommended the 804s and i must say i am pretty attracted to it and according to Kenny, the new price now is very interesting.

Would like to ask the bros here if it is a worthwhile investment for the 804s? Otherwise, what are the comparable models i should be looking at? So far only B&W on my head...

Thanks.......
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on October 06, 2009, 08:29
stick to it. for speakers the more it age the better it sounds. i have heard my frenz gd 5yrs ole DM 6 series. its even sweeter sounding than before. ( if pair with the right amps ) we dun buy speakers to sell eventually... but in order to sell its mostly close to 60% of the new price. there isnt much ppl letting go their B&Ws so the price margin very high if you want a 2nd hand set.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on October 06, 2009, 08:48
I understand the "D" range of the 800 series is well worth the upgrade for the diamond tweeter.

Similar in principle to the use of Beryllium (used in higher end Usher and Focal speakers).

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ilovepanerai on October 06, 2009, 11:13
Hi..

Backside itchy and went down to TEG to listen to the floorstanders. Kenny recommended the 804s and i must say i am pretty attracted to it and according to Kenny, the new price now is very interesting.

Would like to ask the bros here if it is a worthwhile investment for the 804s? Otherwise, what are the comparable models i should be looking at? So far only B&W on my head...

Thanks.......

I believe the price range of the 804S is comparable to the Focal 1027Be(if one can get it at the last promotion price) and also the Thiel CS2.4.

Something i am also pondering about as well...

Any comments welcome... ;)

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kmolth on October 06, 2009, 22:52
I understand the "D" range of the 800 series is well worth the upgrade for the diamond tweeter.

Similar in principle to the use of Beryllium (used in higher end Usher and Focal speakers).


I understand the Revel Studio2 is also using Beryllium tweeter, anyone kind to share the advantage of Diamond/Beryllium over the others?

Sorry to side track, anyone have any opinion on the current range of Revel Studio 2 versus the 802D and Focal 1038BE ( if I got the model right). The studio2 and 802D price range is very close I think.



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: music_loft on October 07, 2009, 00:24
I believe the price range of the 804S is comparable to the Focal 1027Be(if one can get it at the last promotion price) and also the Thiel CS2.4.

Something i am also pondering about as well...

Any comments welcome... ;)

Cheers

Hi...

Don't know if i should be asking this here. But would like to know what is the price that is offered for the Focal 1027BE and the Thiel CS2.4?

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ilovepanerai on October 07, 2009, 00:45
Hi...

Don't know if i should be asking this here. But would like to know what is the price that is offered for the Focal 1027BE and the Thiel CS2.4?



Think its between 6k-7k the Thiel CS2.4, and similar price range for the Focal 1027BE under stock clearance price in place of the upcoming 1028BE.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on October 07, 2009, 08:25
Think its between 6k-7k the Thiel CS2.4, and similar price range for the Focal 1027BE under stock clearance price in place of the upcoming 1028BE.
as i was just curious on the price differences vs launch, just by googling.. i found that the 804S was launched at US$4.5k afew years ago? the thiel cs2.4 launched at US$4.4k so it's comparable. in comparison, the focal 1027be was launched at US$7.5k..

notwithstanding price, i think B&W is very different sounding vs thiel or focal and it's all about preference.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 08, 2009, 11:44
Hi Quest,

I think it will be unfair that you state that B&W speakers are biased when you are not familiar with the Classe or Arcam amplifiers. 

I wish to indicate that one of B&W success have been attributed to its core philosophy of producing uncolored speakers. 

Also, it is strange that B&W have one of the strongest reputations on transparency though the level of transparency may vary with the differing priced products and the type of MF/HF drivers used. 

Perhaps you wish to listen to it again and we can then discuss why you think it is biased and in what sense bias”.

Cheers.
KNY

Hi kenny, you are welcome. I only listened to the Arcam because I was not familiar with the Classe so was trying to find the difference by doing a comparison. My budget is around the Classe integrated price range and I was looking at that model as you previously had a sale on it.

However, as I mentioned that day, the B&W speakers felt biased, so much so that I could not really tell the character of the amplifiers.. hence it will be too tough a purchase decision for me to make in such a situation. This is why I asked if there were other dealers - so I could hear other pairings. This is especially since the B&W setups did not exhibit the characteristics i look for such as high transparency and transients/dynamics - so risk factor is higher that the power amp may also not have the characteristics that I am seeking.

Nonetheless, think I am digressing from this B&W thread by talking about power amps. Thanks for the attentive service provided.

Was surprised that the CM9 actually sounded closer to the 800 series than I thought previously, even though admittedly it does have a different sound.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 08, 2009, 13:42
Hi ilovepanerai,

I do think that this would be better if you compare Thiel CS2.4 with B&W CM9 instead.

Reason is that the musical performance, power handling and it's design are more inline with Thiel..

By the way the B&W CM9 cost only $5K   (before GST) and not to forget that the CM9 have been rated as a 5 star loudspeaker in HiFi Choice   and the most recent awards for the B&W CM9 (Winner of EISA best European loudpseakers for 2009-2010)

Cheers.
KNY

Think its between 6k-7k the Thiel CS2.4, and similar price range for the Focal 1027BE under stock clearance price in place of the upcoming 1028BE.

I believe the price range of the 804S is comparable to the Focal 1027Be(if one can get it at the last promotion price) and also the Thiel CS2.4.

Something i am also pondering about as well...

Any comments welcome... ;)

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ilovepanerai on October 08, 2009, 14:32
Hi ilovepanerai,

I do think that this would be better if you compare Thiel CS2.4 with B&W CM9 instead.

Reason is that the musical performance, power handling and it's design are more inline with Thiel..

By the way the B&W CM9 cost only $5K   (before GST) and not to forget that the CM9 have been rated as a 5 star loudspeaker in HiFi Choice   and the most recent awards for the B&W CM9 (Winner of EISA best European loudpseakers for 2009-2010)

Cheers.
KNY





Thanks Kenny for the info, I am more incline looking/comparing it to the 804s.
infact I was comparing the CS2.4 with the 804s mainly because of price perspective.

Would you recommand one to look at the 804s if the size of the room is only
11.9sq m(128sq. ft)?

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on October 08, 2009, 14:53
I think it will be unfair that you state that B&W speakers are biased when you are not familiar with the Classe or Arcam amplifiers. 

I wish to indicate that one of B&W success have been attributed to its core philosophy of producing uncolored speakers. 

Also, it is strange that B&W have one of the strongest reputations on transparency though the level of transparency may vary with the differing priced products and the type of MF/HF drivers used. 

Perhaps you wish to listen to it again and we can then discuss why you think it is biased and in what sense bias”.
Hi kenny, thanks for your reply. Are you saying the Classe and Arcam amplifiers are both biased while the b&w is transparent? Cos I heard a similar sound coming from the speaker, through both the amplifiers. That was the reason why I requested to swap speakers with the same amplifier - so I could try to identify the signature of each.

Reputation and magazine reviews are one thing.. all those in this hobby should know that we can only use our ears to define what is the correct sound. Just google to see user reviews which are more useful vs magazines. Let's take a look at what the AVS crowd has to say about B&W speakers, and let's see if they think it sounds transparent? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-865009.html

Nonetheless, sound is obviously very subjective and personal and it is just my opinion. FYI I did try to engage you on this topic by describing while I was in the shop but I felt you did not quite follow what I was saying, nor did you provide suggestions.

On another note, I felt the sound was very veiled and even my gf commented on it quite harshly. But on this note I have heard B&Ws in other people's homes that sound better and more revealing, so maybe it is some other factor in your showroom?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 11, 2009, 20:10
Hi Quest,

I did not say that Classe and Arcam are biased, and ohh...by the way on that particular day itself you never tell me what would be your comment on the sounding of both amplifier itself, so that was why when you asked for suggestions from me, I was unable to do so, couse you did not tell me on what kind of characteristics that you were looking in that particular amp.. Both the Classe and Arcam sounds the same?

By the way I have hooked up back to the B&W 804S that you have heard and I do personally find that the sounding from Classe are cleaner, improved significantly on staging and imaging, and sound a lot more smoother to me.

While when I do hooked up the Arcam, the sounding to me are a lot more laid back and warmer.  ;)

Oh...yaa..just want to let you know that I cant really compare them side by side. By the way sounding can very very subjective and what I can say is that maybe you do have get used to your speakers and your own amplifications? :)

Cheers.
KNY

Hi kenny, thanks for your reply. Are you saying the Classe and Arcam amplifiers are both biased while the b&w is transparent? Cos I heard a similar sound coming from the speaker, through both the amplifiers. That was the reason why I requested to swap speakers with the same amplifier - so I could try to identify the signature of each.

Reputation and magazine reviews are one thing.. all those in this hobby should know that we can only use our ears to define what is the correct sound. Just google to see user reviews which are more useful vs magazines. Let's take a look at what the AVS crowd has to say about B&W speakers, and let's see if they think it sounds transparent? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-865009.html

Nonetheless, sound is obviously very subjective and personal and it is just my opinion. FYI I did try to engage you on this topic by describing while I was in the shop but I felt you did not quite follow what I was saying, nor did you provide suggestions.

On another note, I felt the sound was very veiled and even my gf commented on it quite harshly. But on this note I have heard B&Ws in other people's homes that sound better and more revealing, so maybe it is some other factor in your showroom?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 22, 2009, 13:29
Hi All,

Just want to infom that Bowers and Wilkins showroom will be close at 5 pm (Saturday-24/10/2009) and will be closed whole day on (Monday-26/10/2009) due to our company's corporate event.

We will resume business on (Tuesday-27/10/2009)

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 29, 2009, 14:40
Hi All,

We are glad to announce that Bowers and Wilkins Zeppelin Mini is already in for audition, some introdution to my mini and yet sexy ipod speaker  ;D

Two years ago, Bowers & Wilkins’ iconic Zeppelin redefined what could be expected from a one-piece iPod™ speaker system. The British firm’s sculpturally tapered, beautifully finished active-loudspeaker iPod music solution proved that playback from Apple’s globally ubiquitous personal music player can indeed deliver gloriously musical in-room sound for all to enjoy. The original Zeppelin design demonstrated conclusively that amazing sound and striking visual beauty could coexist and indeed cohabit, in a confidently individualistic award-winning design that emphasized the premium quality and brand values of Bowers & Wilkins while enhancing those of the Apple iPod or iPhone™ docked to it.

Now, with the original’s unprecedented collection of glowing reviews and prestigious awards still growing, Zeppelin is joined by Zeppelin Mini. Substantially smaller but every bit as elegant, the Zeppelin Mini attains the same high standard of sound quality, and delivers astounding clean volume potential, deep-bass impact and extension for such a diminutive package.

Like its larger sibling, the Zeppelin Mini incorporates multiple Bowers & Wilkins core technologies to achieve unprecedented performance. B&W’s unrivaled expertise in loudspeaker design is exemplified by the Mini’s use of two newly developed, full-range, 3-inch fiber-glass drivers whose uniquely slotted cone and very long-throw “motor” deliver unprecedented range and dynamics for so compact a transducer. B&W’s extensive experience in digital signal processing (DSP) proved just as important, supplying advanced processing including proprietary dynamic equalization that maximizes the drivers’ abilities to produce jaw-dropping loudness and fullness. The Zeppelin Mini’s two leading-edge Class D (“digital”) amplifiers ensure plenty of power (18 watts each) from ultra-compact, nearly cold-running circuitry.

B&W’s patented Flowport™ enclosure architecture vents in the rear to minimize any noise or coloration from deep bass playback, even at extreme volumes.

Unlike many competing portable music systems, the Zeppelin Mini acquires the audio signal from a docked iPod or iPhone in pure digital form, performing the critical digital-to-analog conversion onboard using advanced, highly accurate, audiophile-grade circuitry. The result is a degree of musical refinement equaled by no other iPod music system. What’s more, a mini-USB port on the back of the Zeppelin Mini permits program material from outboard sources, such as desktop or laptop Macs or PCs, to stream content to the Bower & Wilkins system for superior musical playback. There’s also an analog-audio AUX input that allows the Zeppelin Mini to work its magic with older, legacy sources.

The Zeppelin Mini also adds the ability to stream music direct from your PC or Mac via a dedicated USB socket. This allows you even more flexibility in terms of how you play your music, and any computer system will benefit from the improved sound quality and digital processing that Zeppelin Mini’s advanced Digital Signal Processing and drive unit technology offer. This USB connection also has the advantage of letting you synchronise your iPod or iPhone with your computer.


Have attached herewith the image of the Bowers and Wilkins Zeppelin Mini;
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/lowkenny/BWMiniFrontShot.jpg)

Just dropby anytime to check on the Zeppelin Mini.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on October 29, 2009, 15:24
was hoping the mini to be shaped just like the original Zeppelin( only much smaller), end up the shape like that.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on October 29, 2009, 15:31
Bro, something special mah.. small tiny, sexy also..  ;D  :P

was hoping the mini to be shaped just like the original Zeppelin( only much smaller), end up the shape like that.  :P
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on November 26, 2009, 17:36
Hi All,

Glad to let you guy's know that the Zeppelin Mini has got a 5 star rated in What HiFi...

Please follow this link to read on the reviews of that.
http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandW-Zeppelin-Mini/

For those who are interested to have an audition on the Zeppelin Mini please do feel free to drop by.

Cheers.
KNY

Hi All,

We are glad to announce that Bowers and Wilkins Zeppelin Mini is already in for audition, some introdution to my mini and yet sexy ipod speaker  ;D

Two years ago, Bowers & Wilkins’ iconic Zeppelin redefined what could be expected from a one-piece iPod™ speaker system. The British firm’s sculpturally tapered, beautifully finished active-loudspeaker iPod music solution proved that playback from Apple’s globally ubiquitous personal music player can indeed deliver gloriously musical in-room sound for all to enjoy. The original Zeppelin design demonstrated conclusively that amazing sound and striking visual beauty could coexist and indeed cohabit, in a confidently individualistic award-winning design that emphasized the premium quality and brand values of Bowers & Wilkins while enhancing those of the Apple iPod or iPhone™ docked to it.

Now, with the original’s unprecedented collection of glowing reviews and prestigious awards still growing, Zeppelin is joined by Zeppelin Mini. Substantially smaller but every bit as elegant, the Zeppelin Mini attains the same high standard of sound quality, and delivers astounding clean volume potential, deep-bass impact and extension for such a diminutive package.

Like its larger sibling, the Zeppelin Mini incorporates multiple Bowers & Wilkins core technologies to achieve unprecedented performance. B&W’s unrivaled expertise in loudspeaker design is exemplified by the Mini’s use of two newly developed, full-range, 3-inch fiber-glass drivers whose uniquely slotted cone and very long-throw “motor” deliver unprecedented range and dynamics for so compact a transducer. B&W’s extensive experience in digital signal processing (DSP) proved just as important, supplying advanced processing including proprietary dynamic equalization that maximizes the drivers’ abilities to produce jaw-dropping loudness and fullness. The Zeppelin Mini’s two leading-edge Class D (“digital”) amplifiers ensure plenty of power (18 watts each) from ultra-compact, nearly cold-running circuitry.

B&W’s patented Flowport™ enclosure architecture vents in the rear to minimize any noise or coloration from deep bass playback, even at extreme volumes.

Unlike many competing portable music systems, the Zeppelin Mini acquires the audio signal from a docked iPod or iPhone in pure digital form, performing the critical digital-to-analog conversion onboard using advanced, highly accurate, audiophile-grade circuitry. The result is a degree of musical refinement equaled by no other iPod music system. What’s more, a mini-USB port on the back of the Zeppelin Mini permits program material from outboard sources, such as desktop or laptop Macs or PCs, to stream content to the Bower & Wilkins system for superior musical playback. There’s also an analog-audio AUX input that allows the Zeppelin Mini to work its magic with older, legacy sources.

The Zeppelin Mini also adds the ability to stream music direct from your PC or Mac via a dedicated USB socket. This allows you even more flexibility in terms of how you play your music, and any computer system will benefit from the improved sound quality and digital processing that Zeppelin Mini’s advanced Digital Signal Processing and drive unit technology offer. This USB connection also has the advantage of letting you synchronise your iPod or iPhone with your computer.


Have attached herewith the image of the Bowers and Wilkins Zeppelin Mini;
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/lowkenny/BWMiniFrontShot.jpg)

Just dropby anytime to check on the Zeppelin Mini.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on January 06, 2010, 13:42
i just came back from japan and found the prices for B&W at yodobashi quite attractive vs what i recall of the local prices.
i saw the 803SMR for 336,000 yen which is about S$5.1k. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: dXter on January 06, 2010, 16:53
i just came back from japan and found the prices for B&W at yodobashi quite attractive vs what i recall of the local prices.
i saw the 803SMR for 336,000 yen which is about S$5.1k. :)

Yes, B&W's pricing in Japan is indeed very attractive. The 804 are about S$2.2k iirc. If only could carry back.  :'(
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on January 06, 2010, 17:44
Yes, B&W's pricing in Japan is indeed very attractive. The 804 are about S$2.2k iirc. If only could carry back.  :'(
i think so.. slightly higher than that price now though, cos of the exchange rate. maybe closer to S$2.5k.
if you are a krisflyer PPS, i think baggage allowed is 40kg each person. i had quite abit of excess but wasn't shopping for speakers anyhow. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on January 06, 2010, 17:45
wah real cheap... too bad...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on January 06, 2010, 17:47
wah real cheap... too bad...
i guess depends if you want the local warranty cos a plane ticket can be had for only $500+? :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on January 07, 2010, 18:54
Quest,

For what it is worth, my audition at TEG's showroom of the 804s was quite a different experience from yours. The 804 sounded very different when driven by the Classe and the Arcam. But contrary to lowkenny's observations, I found the 804 very warm when driven by the Classe and more neutral when driven by the Arcam. This is without taking into account other factors like bass extension, control, extension etc.

I have paired the 804s with the Bel Canto S300i with good results. The balance with the Bel Canto is fairly neutral.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on January 07, 2010, 20:52
hi watchdog,

just to share. i have audited 804 with S300i at a forumers place. if you think its good with the BC, it will be better with Class AB amps. call it an personal preference but a friend of mine and myself included didnt like the way 804 sounded when driven with BD s300i. we have heard 804 numerius times at KEC and TEG it was definitely much more engaging than driven by BC. suggest you give yourself a chance to try other match ups. you will be surprised.  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: watchdog on January 07, 2010, 22:58
DJQ, thanks for sharing.

I suppose it just goes to show that personal preference can vary somewhat. I've heard the 804s driven with various amps including KEC's setup using various combinations of Cyrus amps. I would regard the performance of the 804 with Cyrus and BC to be on par (albeit different). I didn't like the pairing with Classe while I thought the pairing with Arcam was just OK.

As all these auditions are using different sources, and in different acoustic environments, the comparison can probably be said to be somewhat flawed.

hi watchdog,

just to share. i have audited 804 with S300i at a forumers place. if you think its good with the BC, it will be better with Class AB amps. call it an personal preference but a friend of mine and myself included didnt like the way 804 sounded when driven with BD s300i. we have heard 804 numerius times at KEC and TEG it was definitely much more engaging than driven by BC. suggest you give yourself a chance to try other match ups. you will be surprised.  ;)
Title: New Bowers & Wilkins 800 Diamond series
Post by: ilovepanerai on January 07, 2010, 23:11
How you like the new slick black 800 diamond series B&Ws...

http://bwgroup.keycast.com/default.aspx?websiteid=9&infid=4604&cpflgs=1110

looking very good except its almost double the ex 800s series prices..

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on January 07, 2010, 23:13
Quest,

For what it is worth, my audition at TEG's showroom of the 804s was quite a different experience from yours. The 804 sounded very different when driven by the Classe and the Arcam. But contrary to lowkenny's observations, I found the 804 very warm when driven by the Classe and more neutral when driven by the Arcam. This is without taking into account other factors like bass extension, control, extension etc.

I have paired the 804s with the Bel Canto S300i with good results. The balance with the Bel Canto is fairly neutral.
Thanks for sharing. I am not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but I had quite a decent impression of B&W on a prior visit (although admittedly I think I have also gained more experience between the viewings) when a friend bought a pair, hence why I visited them again for the audition of the Classe, although that did not turn out so well. I also recalled the Classe/B&W combination to be warm from my first viewing hence why I thought it might potentially be a match with my Focals. Basically I was there to test if the warmth was from the Classe or from the B&W or something else.

This was why, being surprised by the sound (and questioned by my gf), I talked to the sales rep to see if something was wrong with the setup on that particular day. I guess I will not know until I re-visit them again since you have a good experience - and see if it differs from my last impression.

This is an old topic but just for discussion's sake - It is correct that the Arcam and Classe do sound quite different when paired with the same B&W, but as I am not familiar with the sound of the B&W, I had to 'guess' the sound of the B&W by hearing it with 2 different amplifiers - and therefore identify the character of the amplifiers in question more accurately. Only by doing so then I can 'guess' how that amplifier sounds like with other speakers. I hope you can understand this is not such an easy task. My comment to kenny was that I felt the speakers were biased and therefore I cannot tell the exact character of the amplifiers so easily by this method and via just 2 sample size, whereas he feels the B&W speakers are transparent and thus alluding that I should not have such a difficulty.

Congrats if you have found the sound that you like, cos many of us are still searching. :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on January 08, 2010, 00:04
ah so... i have heard B&W coming out something new. so this is it. well as usual they wont be cheaper then the previous model...  :)
listed as 5,750pound... tats over SGD$12k for the 804  :o
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on January 08, 2010, 07:41
ah so... i have heard B&W coming out something new. so this is it. well as usual they wont be cheaper then the previous model...  :)
listed as 5,750pound... tats over SGD$12k for the 804  :o
wow.. when the current model is how much?
actually i am kind of confused at all their models as there are nautilus version and what not. :) i recall seeing the 804S for 235k yen.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on January 08, 2010, 08:52
The reason I think you are confused is I think, B&W has this method of bringing down their highest design specs to lower end models. This has always been the case ever since they started. My 6series S3 is the last of the lot. The current 600 series have FST cone & nautilus tube tweeter on certain spk models. Now they bring down the diamond tweeter from signature diamond to the 800series. Good call as the 800 has only gone thru minor facelift & spk model changes. I only convert price tag of the uk list price. So let's see how much TEG puts them up for. 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: clitang on January 08, 2010, 12:03
wow.. when the current model is how much?
actually i am kind of confused at all their models as there are nautilus version and what not. :) i recall seeing the 804S for 235k yen.

Hi Bro

If I am not wrong, 235K yen is for one pcs. In Japan, it is common to list the price for one unit.

However, 804S is the cheaper version, the better versionis the "D" version, 804D. It is the so called "diamond" tweeter
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: SteinigerGE on January 08, 2010, 12:22
Has B&W released an 804D?  I thought 803 was the lowest "D".

For your reference, within a range, (i.e.6xx, 7xx, or 8xx) 05 are bookshelves, 04 are smaller floorstanders, 03 are larger floorstanders.  There are only 02,01, and 00 in the 800 series.Nautilus or "N" date from the early 90's to early 2000's and were replaced by the "S" (aluminum tweeters) and "D" (diamond tweeters) in the 800 series.   
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 08, 2010, 14:10
Bowers & Wilkins launches 800 Series Diamond at CES 2010

http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/theinsider/?p=368

everything in the 800 series will be D.  The non-D versions are discontinued.

TEG: are you going to have a sale on the non D 80xs ?  ;)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: DJQ on January 08, 2010, 15:21
Bowers & Wilkins launches 800 Series Diamond at CES 2010

http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/theinsider/?p=368

everything in the 800 series will be D.  The non-D versions are discontinued.

TEG: are you going to have a sale on the non D 80xs ?  ;)


haha mai tu liao. Buybuybuy  ;D
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: HT102 on January 08, 2010, 22:21
wow.. when the current model is how much?
actually i am kind of confused at all their models as there are nautilus version and what not. :) i recall seeing the 804S for 235k yen.

It's in the press release.
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/med/Libraries/7/800_Series_Diamond_UK_PR.pdf (http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/med/Libraries/7/800_Series_Diamond_UK_PR.pdf)

Quote
Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Diamond is available from February 2010, and priced as follows:

800 Diamond £18,500 per pair
802 Diamond £11,500 per pair
803 Diamond £7,500 per pair
804 Diamond £5,750 per pair
805 Diamond £3,750 per pair
HTM2 Diamond £3,950 each
HTM4 Diamond £1,950 each

I would expect Sg prices to be direct currency conversion from the above prices. A pair of 805 Diamond is gonna be ~S$9k.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on January 09, 2010, 17:32
Hi All,

For those who are intersted in owning the 800 Series speakers, you are welcome to drop by to our showroom to discussed on the best price that we can offer.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: crazysurfer on January 09, 2010, 19:57
Hi All,

For those who are intersted in owning the 800 Series speakers, you are welcome to drop by to our showroom to discussed on the best price that we can offer.

Cheers.
KNY

Why the hush hush on your prices? If you are interested in clearing the 800 Series to make way for the new Diamond Series, you might as well publish them here for all to see so that those who are interested & find the prices are now more down to earth can have an idea and decide if it is within their budget instead of asking people to waste their time to go all the way down to discuss and find the prices are not much of a difference after all.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 12, 2010, 10:22
... if it is within their budget instead of asking people to waste their time to go all the way down ...

hey bro dun be too harsh okay ? the 800 series is really the best selling series of B&W, there is no reason for them to do fire sale; The new series is almost 50% more in list price, so it's clearly like a "900" series (btw I really think they should call it as such).  Further more, B&W/TEG is not your usual "internet" speaker company aka SVS/Axiom/Rocket/etc for which u bargain for the best deal.  B&W especially the 800 series and "value" do not come in the same sentence. (like Pioneer Kuro and "value").  If you are really interested in 800 series (for which the cheapest pair book shelf has a list price of 4-5k S$), and you can't even afford a visit to the actual speakers, let's be fair, what do you think a reputable dealer will think abt this customer ?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 12, 2010, 10:28
then it's their business to lose
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: akdwivedi on January 12, 2010, 10:48
second this.. there is no harm in publishing the prices specially if they are saying that there is special promotion or sales. Being transparent will only make them more popular among the buyers. I am sure TEG can use this opportunity to make more friends and turn them into loyal patrons.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 12, 2010, 11:00
then it's their business to lose

so you endorse this attitude below, for a customer ? To me this attitude constitutes as a very arrogant customer.

Quote
instead of asking people to waste their time to go all the way down ...

on this point :

Quote
there is no harm in publishing the prices specially if they are saying that there is special promotion or sales

they didn't say there is a special promotion on 800 series, did they ?  They simply say "we invite you to come to our show room to discuss the price of the 800 series if you are keen".  This is a proper response to some one who is interested and ask for price.  What's wrong with this ?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 12, 2010, 11:08
I am not endorsing any particular customer... merely reiterating that businesses that thrive build on a good customer relationship, setting clear transparent and reasonable pricing to all, not with hints of special deals here and there. With repeat customers I don't doubt there's possibly some special discounts but some of the disparity that I am seeing kinda boggles the mind.

That's why there's this fear I am sensing with the guys here asking for more open pricing.



Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: AndrewC on January 12, 2010, 11:16
so you endorse this attitude below, for a customer ? To me this attitude constitutes as a very arrogant customer.

on this point :

they didn't say there is a special promotion on 800 series, did they ?  They simply say "we invite you to come to our show room to discuss the price of the 800 series if you are keen".  This is a proper response to some one who is interested and ask for price.  What's wrong with this ?


Personally, I think it's more than a little disingenuous for a Retailer to participate in an open forum and openly invite people and yet hold back on pricing information for the specific invitation. I think such Retailers should either put-up or shut-up. But that's just me  ::)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 12, 2010, 11:48
Personally, I think it's more than a little disingenuous for a Retailer to participate in an open forum and openly invite people and yet hold back on pricing information for the specific invitation

but there was no "specific invitation".  In fact I started this as a joke "so is TEG doing a sale on the non D 80xs" ?  And some members maybe got an impression indeed there is a sale going , so ask what's the price.  When the dealer politely said "we invite you to come and visit us" (to me this is nothing more than a polite response), it was immediately criticized as "why wasting my time going down" etc.  To me such words are really not warranted.  Courtesy is in both ways.  This is just being not polite to the dealer.

to DH, for that point, yes I share with your feeling, abt "setting clear transparent pricing".  But this is business practice. Every firm has its practice. Do you believe BMW/Merc cars have transparent pricing ? Most definitely not.  Each company has its own policy on pricing, we can all disagree and such.  It's fine.  What I find it not so nice is the total one-sided hostile attitude towards a dealer, even when he did nothing.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 12, 2010, 11:54
Back to car analogies again :)

ok my other pet subject.

Here's what I found. There's a published price and when u go down, there's a price list of this week's discount. That's open to all. Often car forums routinely publish these discounted prices.

You may get some deal if you get some freebies thrown in or you trade in a specific make. But by and large, those prices are open and transparent :)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 12, 2010, 11:56
Back to original topic, crazy surfer, I believe the 800 series that currently exists is not bring replaced. The 800 Diamond is a new series.

I guess that means the old 80xD range gets moved from the old 800 series range leaving behind the non-diamond 803, 804, 805 and the nonD center speaker.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 12, 2010, 12:00
You may get some deal if you get some freebies thrown in or you trade in a specific make. But by and large, those prices are open and transparent :)

hmmm ... I think depending on the salesman and your negotiation skills, there is always a few k difference.  For example a return customer back to the same salesman sure will get a few k more.  I believe all car salesmen have a margin of a few Ks within their control.  Especially for conti models.  Ppl in the forum also PM around their best price.

btw DH, discussion of this is fine.  I was against that particular attitude, not this.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on January 12, 2010, 12:24
hate to write on this but since it is an on-going topic..

hmmm ... I think depending on the salesman and your negotiation skills, there is always a few k difference.  For example a return customer back to the same salesman sure will get a few k more.  I believe all car salesmen have a margin of a few Ks within their control.  Especially for conti models.  Ppl in the forum also PM around their best price.
that is true but a few thousand is just a couple of percentages in terms of the cost of a car. i don't think anyone will be too sour on paying slightly more for his car or not getting one more accessory, especially when things like COE or exchange rate fluctuation can affect the price more.

with speakers the percentage difference can be much higher as the margins are greater than cars.
like DH, some of the differences in prices that i know of boggles me too, not to mention other subjective practices.
some of you may fancy haggling but i certainly don't, least of not for 'luxury items'.. the last shop that quoted me a extremely high price (vs another shop's quote) lost my business permanently without a further word.

i think what irks some of us in the thread is that TEG doesn't even post list prices here, which i think should be a given.
the way they write seems to (i) inconvenience the user as they need to call/visit to even find out the list price (ii) shows an attitude that it's as if the price depends on your bargaining skills and is not fixed.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: sagibit on January 12, 2010, 15:16
courtesy and respect works both ways. You can never satisfy everyone. There are attitude customers and there are also attitude dealers. I think enough has been said of this.

But has anyone wonder what triggers all these discussions in the first place? Just because the local pricing of the speakers were not made known? Or is it that you have to visit the showroom 1st in order just to find out the local prices of the speaker?

Imagine if you are the customer, you go down and find that the price is out of your reach or that there is not much discount/promotion available.  Or what if there are other terms and conditions attached? You will have felt ripped off and  time, effort wasted on traveling. As an analogy, 2nd hand car dealers usually price their cars cheaply on advertisement but its a different story when you are at their office.

Why must the customer visit the shop 1st to know the local price? Is it because the sales personnel can size you up 1st and then decide the price accordingly to who you are? Or that different pricing exist at different time of quoting? Why cant the dealer post the list prices or privately pm in person rather than asking customers to go down in the first instance? Just like new cars, prices are listed openly on its website. Everyone knows the local list price but the price of the car that you buy and pay is usually cheaper than the list price due to rebates for loans, insurance etc etc. 

It will help the dealer if they post the list price rather than always reply to visit their showroom 1st. This feels like as if the dealer is "laying a trap" and waiting for you to come in. This is just my personal thought and opinions only. I am not saying that dealer will lay traps or suggest otherwise. Please don't flame me  :)

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 12, 2010, 15:52
Why must the customer visit the shop 1st to know the local price?

no u dun. just call them and they will give u the list price.  If u visit them, the list price is written next to the speaker.

Quote
Imagine if you are the customer, you go down and find that the price is out of your reach or that there is not much discount/promotion available.  Or what if there are other terms and conditions attached? You will have felt ripped off and  time, effort wasted on traveling
A customer should only feel ripped off/cheated when he's enticed to the shop by misleading/cheating adverts, like false promise of a sale, or a fake "promotional price", or something like that.  Classic case will be 2nd hand car dealer adviertise a super low price, only to tell you on the spot that car "is just sold, how abt this one".
If you just go into a shop to audition a speaker,  and after that u decide not to buy, this does not give the customer (or the shop) the right to blame any one for wasting anybody's time. (both the customer's and the sales person's)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: arsene on January 12, 2010, 16:07
no u dun. just call them and they will give u the list price.  If u visit them, the list price is written next to the speaker.



If so, then what's wrong in publishing the price if you have no issue in letting people know over the phone.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: sagibit on January 12, 2010, 16:14
Since the price is available written next to the speaker and you can call to find out, why don't the dealer list down the prices or private pm rather than always reply to come down to showroom to discuss?

There was also no clarification of whether is there any sale going on for the existing 800 series where earlier readers may have stated wrongly that that there may be a sale as a result of the new diamond series release? If readers misunderstood and visit the showroom thinking there is a sale going on....i rest my case. If the customer visits on his own to audition speaker and not due to any promotions, then its a different story.

By the way, this thread is not a sales thread. Or has it? I thought this thread is meant more for B&W owners to share their experience?

If the response of the dealer is to always reply to come down to our showroom, it may be more appropriate to post new products in the sales section to inform the audio community rather than posting it in audio forum.
Title: Dealing with it
Post by: petetherock on January 12, 2010, 16:30
Sigh

First, I own a B/W. Second I don't work for them or TEG.

This speaker brand seems to generate the most angst, and disgust from posters of all the brands in XP.

However the ill-feelings comes from people who apparently do not own the speakers, unlike Monitor Audio, who despite a rather surly rep, manages to move boxes of speakers and continually attract new buyers.

The difference?

TEG actually gives better service, IMO, than most.

But they are dealing with Singaporeans. Where the paramount item of concern is COST. VALUE. CHEAP CHEAP.

Notice that most buyers are happy with their purchase. These are people who have come to terms with the pricing of the item here in Singapore. Who did not complain about their prices, whether they post these prices online here, or get big discounts.

Actually what I just described also applies to most buyers of Pioneer plasma TVs. Those who whinge the most actually don't own the Pioneers, and like to compare their prices to other brands.

But the difference here is that B/W continues to exist, whereas Pioneer has quietly retired as plasma makers, despite being universally acknowledged as the best makers of any kind of TVs.

Neither company lists their prices much. But you still get buyers.


So what gives? Well it seems there are enough people who subscribe to the model that B/W promotes. Perhaps if you observe Bose, who has been derided by many forums and yet continues to thrive despite such derision, then you realise their model works and works well.

If you are a box mover, and go by VALUE, then you need to move more boxes in order to see that profit. See the base model Panasonic 42" plasma TV. That sucker is about 6xx$ nett. A Pioneer 42" is about 3-4 times that. The margins are pretty thin on it.

Now if we go for the model some members who complain about their prices and policies goes, B/W and TEG will necessarily need to move maybe twice the number of boxes for the same profit. To what end? Their current model of marketing works.

So anyone who is looking at this, deal with it. Or not and move on. Sounds snobbish? Well remember the consumer owns what is in their wallets. You vote with that.

I have post this same thing before. If you want value, MA, Mission, etc etc all give better value. Perhaps if enough people buy another brand things will change.

Or not... take Usher, prices locally are almost twice that in ROC. No one seems to whinge or whine much about it. I wonder why, is it because of the popularity of the B/W brand, that makes one feel a need to check out their brand? That I guess makes them a bigger target than Usher.

I love a bargain just as much as the next man, and I am as miserly with my money. So I look to get value too. But the bottom line is simple, if this speaker gives you that wide smile, that sense that it will be your speaker for many years to come. Then buy it and pay what TEG or B/W asks.

If not, deal with it, and hunt for better value elsewhere. Like that famous Chivas Regal ad... (BTW there are plenty of cheaper single malt whiskies around, so again there is not need for Chivas if you need a drink).

Cheers :)


Footnote - I do feel there are some "pseudo-posts' here amounting to sales gimmicks. BTW you can pm the chaps at TEG for quotes.

I do feel a dealer can answer questions and give tips, thats it. See the Pioneer thread, it is one of the longest and most succesful threads, as it offers buyers a chance to get the best from their low value for money investment.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: sagibit on January 12, 2010, 16:55
Btw, I also own B&W and like B&W a lot.I do not have any dispute with TEG either. The point here is that we are not asking TEG to sell B&W cheaply or sell it at value for money.

Since the dealer participates in audio fourms, it will be more appropriate to at least state down the list prices rather than just reply come down to showroom for further discussion. It does not help either when there was no clarification if there is any sale going on for existing 800 series which may mislead others.

Ever wondered why other speakers thread do not have such controversy? There are sharing of knowledge and ideas at other speakers threads. I don't think the dealer participates or reply come to showroom for discussions.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: arsene on January 12, 2010, 17:21
I second what Sagibit says.

I am not a B&W owner.  I was close to buying one, but then decided to go for a Sonus Faber instead as it matches the neutral sounding XPA-5 which I was ordering better than the cooler sound of B&W.  Anyway, I have written in previous threads that I have been impressed with the service given to me at TEG contrary to the perception I get from reading the threads here.

Part of the anguish could be down to the high pricing of the speakers here, no doubt about it.  The business model of TEG seem to be going for the snob appeal, pricing their speakers high to cater for the higher end market probably.  I have no issue with that, as if you cannot afford, then dun buy.

What I find objectionable is when a dealer chose to respond to it by not even revealing the pricing, then it is a BIG turn off for me. I would rather that he keep quiet as he is not adding any value to the discussion.  I do not think it is sheer arrogance on the part of consumer to ask for the pricing.  If the dealer does not want to give it online, then that is another matter altogether.  Pricing will always play a part no matter how much you like something.  The affordability will determine whether you wish to take some time off to audition the speakers.  Of course, I understand if the purpose is for people to call to enquire the price, as maybe it will allow them to do some soft selling on the phone.  But then as a consumer, is it not our right to enquire the price???

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 12, 2010, 18:57
Pete think you didn't address the main issue that various members including Quest, myself and others have raised: that of price transparency.

I guess if I benefited from the status quo, I wouldn't want to rock the boat either. But the fact is there is a sufficiently large price disparity to be a cause of concern.

Personally, I am not a big fan of haggling. I was in HK just over the Xmas hols and their business model of box moving didn't appeal to me. I find SG actually has a pretty good model for the most part. I go in to most showrooms including high end gear like PS Audio and get a proper audition and still get the same transparent pricing that a repeat customer gets. Then I just do my sums and decide if it fits my system, and it can fit physically :) and if I can afford it.

 
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kosmikstream on January 12, 2010, 20:38
If TEG wants to be fully transparent with price they might as well close shop and just operate out of a warehouse and publish their list here...less overheads and you can just cash and carry no need to audition cos you know already B&Ws reputation and product info available
on their website...grow up la and understand its a business
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: akdwivedi on January 12, 2010, 20:56
If TEG wants to be fully transparent with price they might as well close shop and just operate out of a warehouse and publish their list here...less overheads and you can just cash and carry no need to audition cos you know already B&Ws reputation and product info available
on their website...grow up la and understand its a business

thats not true that if somebody becomes transparent with pricing, they have to close shop. there are plenty of examples around you where the dealers publish their prices. Price and costs are different things. the forumers are not asking for their costs and margins etc. Again it does not apply to B&W and audio equipment market, but I do have another hobby of sky watching where some very niche products are not made by large companies but enthusiasts and hobbyst (dunno if spelling is correct). A lot of them have build a great relationship and sort of cult about their equipment. they post their prices online and also mention that prices in different countries are different due to cost of doing business. But that basic of sharing knowledge and pricing on an open forum has helped them in destroyed that wall between a manufacturer and a buyer. Even in Singapore I buy a lot of equipment from a camera shop in Funan basically because they dont want me to come to their shop to get price/information about some new toy. they just mail me and I decide when to go, try it and buy it.

One thing, I would like to tell is that I did communicated with kenny and he responded promptly with the price and open invitation to come down and check the central speaker I was interested in matching with my 685. thats a sign of good customer management. I will someday surely take advantage of that invitation.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Bongteo on January 12, 2010, 23:19
Pete think you didn't address the main issue that various members including Quest, myself and others have raised: that of price transparency.

I guess if I benefited from the status quo, I wouldn't want to rock the boat either. But the fact is there is a sufficiently large price disparity to be a cause of concern.

Personally, I am not a big fan of haggling. I was in HK just over the Xmas hols and their business model of box moving didn't appeal to me. I find SG actually has a pretty good model for the most part. I go in to most showrooms including high end gear like PS Audio and get a proper audition and still get the same transparent pricing that a repeat customer gets. Then I just do my sums and decide if it fits my system, and it can fit physically :) and if I can afford it.

 

I believe their reluctance of giving price here might be to not to scare away ppl with the price and eventually not even giving the speaker a chance. If i am that sales rep, i would definitely want potential customer to come visit me and i could give a good service and let them hear for themself is it worth the price it tag on.

Not every sales tactic works for everyone.. (just my 2 cents)  :)
Title: Re: Dealing with it
Post by: hotbird on January 12, 2010, 23:20

Or not... take Usher, prices locally are almost twice that in ROC. No one seems to whinge or whine much about it. I wonder why, is it because of the popularity of the B/W brand, that makes one feel a need to check out their brand? That I guess makes them a bigger target than Usher.


Still harbouring that perennial gruide against an audio shop just because it did not lay out the red carpet for you a few years ago  >:(
People buy Usher because it's value for money even though if if lists more than ROC, every country outside of ROC is quoted US price, that's their policy because Usher maintain a 2 price policy, one for local, one for export. And many other brands do that, including B&W.
Furthermore, the majority do get good service and their pricing are well publicised through their frequent sales ads in the forums, it's only a few that whine and whine for years......

Title: Re: Dealing with it
Post by: SteinigerGE on January 13, 2010, 07:13
Usher maintain a 2 price policy, one for local, one for export. And many other brands do that, including B&W.


Then B&W buyers in Singapore should be thankful - have you seed the U.K. price of B&Ws?
Title: Re: Dealing with it
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 13, 2010, 07:41
Then B&W buyers in Singapore should be thankful - have you seed the U.K. price of B&Ws?

I guess this statement sums up exactly what I felt :)

cos for most guys, the UK list price represents a bargain to what they were quoted. If you are getting a bargain vis-a-vis the UK list price, then the price disparity is even larger than I had expected. Way larger :)
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: c722 on January 13, 2010, 11:11
DH can I recommend you a good book by Tim Harford ?

http://www.amazon.com/Undercover-Economist-Tim-Harford/dp/0345494016/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263350861&sr=8-1

This will give you a much better perspective on a lot of practices in business.  So you will not feel so strongly about some particular ways in running a shop.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Doggie Howser on January 13, 2010, 11:23
But such a large pricing disparity is probably not a good way to grow the business, in Singapore, based on the feedback here.

Maybe it works for them. If so, good for them, but it does look like it's going to be alienating a lot of customers. Nobody likes to be ripped off, and if there's such a big price disparity as hinted here, some guys are definitely gonna feel ripped off.


Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: sagibit on January 13, 2010, 12:39
To be fair to the dealer, how they want to price their goods and what business model they are, it is up to them to decide. Willing buyer, willing seller.

lets not deviate away from original discussion and lose the objective. I know some may disagree with me. I will just leave it as it is and you be the judge. I hope this discussion does not change to become unnecessary bashing on the dealer. Peace.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on January 13, 2010, 12:50
Hi All,

Maybe let me clarify one thing here.  :)

We are not going to do any fire sales or so called cheap sales on the B&W (so called old series) after the launching of the new 800 series Diamond loudspeakers. And in fact we never think of doing such a sales after all.  ;)

In any case I do not hear from my management regarding this.

Secondly, just want  to express that it is a pure statement that if anyone wants to own a 800 series, please come by and discuss and maybe becouse of the last words "best price that we can offer".  <== This stir up the arguments over here, for those who feels that I'm rude or feel that my reluctance to indicate the price here. I do really apologize for that.  :D

Cheers.
KNY

Hi All,

For those who are intersted in owning the 800 Series speakers, you are welcome to drop by to our showroom to discussed on the best price that we can offer.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: BWenthusiast on January 15, 2010, 00:30
Hey Guy's,

Have been roaming sometimes in this forum and manages to free up some of my own time to posts something in here.

It seems that there are lots of discussion in here (ex: Technology, Material, Design, Advices, Awards, Prices and etc). I do notice that there are few owners of Bowers and Wilkins speaker here as well. They are helpful enough to give advice to those who wants to own a Bowers and Wilkins loudspeakers as well, irregardless of system pairing as well.

But does anyone here knows how B&W starts off? As one of my main reason is that I can't see anyone in here do mention on that? This includes the distributor that have not been posting on this. As this is a Bowers and Wilkins thread I do think that they (as a distributor) should educate some of the stater or so called new owner or soon to be (owner of Bowers and Wilkins) to learn more regarding the brand or company itself.

Well, just allow me to starts this off:

History
Throughout his lifetime, John Bowers, the founder of Bowers & Wilkins Loudspeakers, strove relentlessly to get as close as possible to transparent reproduction of recorded sound. That pursuit is now the mission of the world’s leading loudspeaker brand.

In 1966, John Bowers and his lifelong friend Peter Hayward founded a manufacturing company, then called B&W Electronics, in Worthing, on the south coast of England. They agreed from the outset to live modestly and plough any profits back into the business to further research into the quest for the perfect loudspeaker…

1965: Beginnings
Although Bowers & Wilkins is now a large company, John Bowers begun by hand assembling speaker systems for local clients in the back of the electrical store he ran with his friend Roy Wilkins.

1966: B&W Electronics Ltd
Bowers founds B&W Electronics Ltd, following a bequest from an elderly lady called Miss Knight who was so impressed with his knowledge of classical music, and so pleased with the speakers he made for her, that she left him £10,000 in her will for him to develop a business.

1966: P1
Bowers & Wilkins builds its first commercial loudspeaker, the P1.

1968: Domestic Monitors
The DM1 and DM3 are launched. B&W has always aimed to make the finest loudspeakers across a broad price spectrum. The idea of DM – Domestic Monitor – lived on in many generations of superb and affordable speakers up to the 600 Series 3.


CONTINUES..

1970's
Throughout his career John enjoyed a close relationship with recording engineers who provided vital feedback on how loudspeakers could be improved. As a result of this relationship, B&W’s famous 801 was launched in 1979 and soon became the reference speaker in nearly all of the world’s classical recording studios, including EMI Abbey Road, Decca and Deutsche Grammophon…

1970:DM70
Without the DM70, Bowers’ dream of the perfect loudspeaker might have remained a head-in-the-clouds fantasy. Critics agreed with B&W’s engineers that the sound from its 11-module, electrostatic midrange/high-frequency unit was a revelation. With its cool, curved slimline cabinet, the DM70 changed the shape of loudspeaker design for good.

1974: Kevlar
Trials of driver cone materials revealed that Kevlar®, a fabric used in bulletproof vests, could break up standing waves as efficiently as it stopped bullets. The ochre yellow Kevlar® midrange cone was to become Bowers & Wilkins patent and a hallmark of the natural sound of its speakers.

1975: Kenneth Grange
B&W appoints Kenneth Grange, founding partner of Pentagram and one of the UK’s leading designers, to work on the design of its loudspeaker cabinets.

1976:DM6
Kevlar® cones first see the light of day in the legendary DM6. Designed by Kenneth Grange, the DM6 was affectionately known as the ‘pregnant penguin’.

1977:DM7
The DM7 marked a radical step by liberating the tweeter from the main cabinet, which set high frequencies free and created what was B&W’s most lifelike sound so far. A greatly refined version of ‘Tweeter on Top’ technology continues in the current Bowers & Wilkins speaker range.

1979: 801
The original 801 heralded the modern era of high-end speaker design. Superior drive units isolated in separate chambers produced sound of unheard-of-realism and made the 801 a fixture in top studios and audiophiles’ homes – a tradition upheld by later 801s.

Well, time is running out for me, and it is too late for me to posts more in here now.

Will be back when I do have some free time with me to load more information in here.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: venturer on January 15, 2010, 03:17
The original retail store

(http://www.bowersandwilkins.co.uk/images/large%20images/shop-front.jpg)

(http://www.bowersandwilkins.co.uk/images/Black-and-white-pics_03.jpg)

(http://www.bowersandwilkins.co.uk/images/large%20images/main-shop.jpg)


http://www.bowersandwilkins.co.uk/about%20us/our%20history.htm

John. George Frederick Bowers

http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/jaes.obit/JAES_V36_5_PG433.pdf

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Ratatouille on January 16, 2010, 09:33
Dear dubious BWenthusiast with only 1 post,

Yes its good to lookback at pass history achievements. But we are now in 2010. we cherish the present and look forward to the future. IMO you have to let go, you cannot move on whilst still thinking of the past. now its even more challenging as future market for HiFi grows. John Bowers created very good Speakers in his time and it still is by the current R&D. The strategy for sales in different countries must adapt along too. In Singapore we have this thing called GST. with the speakers at a very high price point, still adding the GST into the overall figure shuts out everyone. so are the distributers really audiophile enthusiast or just doing marketing sales as per profits & margins?

oh btw i am a lurker who registered Aug 2007, i dunno about you newbie registering Jan 14 2010
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: BWenthusiast on January 16, 2010, 23:32
Hi Rata,

Yes, As for the main reason I'm here is that (maybe I'm looking at the ast, but how many of us) in here, or audiophile... would know how this cames along a way. I'm not sure how the local distributor are doing their business here, and yet it does not concern me.

As I have said that in the 1st post, I was merely free right now and came across this... just wanna start to talk something in here? Newbie or regulars.. does that matters?



Dear dubious BWenthusiast with only 1 post,

Yes its good to lookback at pass history achievements. But we are now in 2010. we cherish the present and look forward to the future. IMO you have to let go, you cannot move on whilst still thinking of the past. now its even more challenging as future market for HiFi grows. John Bowers created very good Speakers in his time and it still is by the current R&D. The strategy for sales in different countries must adapt along too. In Singapore we have this thing called GST. with the speakers at a very high price point, still adding the GST into the overall figure shuts out everyone. so are the distributers really audiophile enthusiast or just doing marketing sales as per profits & margins?

oh btw i am a lurker who registered Aug 2007, i dunno about you newbie registering Jan 14 2010
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: kosmikstream on January 19, 2010, 08:59
My question is for TEG...may I know when will you have the MM-1 and the latest headphone in stock?Gonna get them for my new iMac...Thanks.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on January 20, 2010, 17:41
Hi Kosmikstream and all,

The estimated launch date would be in Quarter 1 of 2010, but there is no firm date yet. As South East Asia will not be launching in the first phase like the new 800 series.

I will updates you guy's again when the new products are being launch in Singapore.

Cheers.
KNY

My question is for TEG...may I know when will you have the MM-1 and the latest headphone in stock?Gonna get them for my new iMac...Thanks.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: weak_pig on January 22, 2010, 22:34
Hi, I would like to find out if the local distributor of B&W here carries the 800 Series Diamond range of speakers? I am intending to set up my HT system for my new home..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: ilovepanerai on January 22, 2010, 22:43
Hi, I would like to find out if the local distributor of B&W here carries the 800 Series Diamond range of speakers? I am intending to set up my HT system for my new home..

Heard it will not arrive our shores before Q2, you may call the local distributor to double check.

Cheers
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: weak_pig on January 22, 2010, 23:00
thanks.... in that case, i have to source for other speakers... most likely B&W's satellite speakers..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: weak_pig on January 22, 2010, 23:14
thanks.... in that case, i have to source for other speakers... most likely B&W's satellite speakers..

anyway, doubt that i have the budget to get these 800 diamond as they easily cost 9k and above for just a pair....... and my budget only 5k...  Too bad they're so ex... sigh....
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on February 06, 2010, 12:01
Hi All,

Bowers and Wilkins have announced that they will be releasing the B&W MM1 Multimedia speakers.

I'm glad to inform that we will be getting out audition unit for the Bowers and Wilkins MM1 on the 12th February 2010.

For those who are interested to have an audition on the new multimedia speaker please feel free to drop by our showroom in Lavender.

Cheers.
KNY
 


I will be going to post some of the specifications in here later this evening.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on February 06, 2010, 15:25
Hi All,

Do hope that this will not be too late for the post regarding the new Bowers and Wilkins MM1 multimedia speaker.

Hi All,

Here would be some of the images and also some informations on the new Bowers and Wilkins Desktop Multimedia loudspeakers MM1.

INTRODUCTIONS-

From user to listeners-
MM-1s aren’t like other computer speakers. They’re true hi-fi speakers, shrunk to fit on your desktop. So they don’t just look great – they sound amazing, transforming your computer into a superb hi-fi stereo sound system. But then you’d expect nothing less from the makers of the award-winning Zeppelin iPod speaker, not to mention some of the most advanced studio speakers in the world.

TECHNOLOGY-

Once they were for filling out spreadsheets and typing letters. Now computers are used for almost everything: socialising, playing games, listening to music, watching videos. So it seems a shame that deskbound entertainment fans have always had to make do with sub-standard audio, either from a computer's built-in speakers or poor quality monitors. No longer. MM-1 brings true hi-fi quality sound to your desktop for the first time, giving your computer the audio it deserves.

1) NAUTILUS TUBE LOADED TECHNOLOGY TWEETERS

Some of our most pioneering technology has found its way into the MM-1. The tweeters, for example, incorporate the tube-loaded design we first developed for our famous Nautilus speakers, which dampens resonance and produces purer high frequency sounds. You’ll find the same technology in our studio-standard speakers, used by the likes of Abbey Road Studios.
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/lowkenny/NautilusTubeLoadedTechTweeter.jpg)

2) DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSING

There’s an art to producing a big sound from small speakers. And we’ve mastered it, thanks to a clever piece of electronic fine-tuning called Digital Signal Processing. By adjusting the sound balance depending on the signal, DSP keeps bass effects powerful and music sounding rich and detailed, no matter how loud you play it.
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/lowkenny/DigitalSignalProcessingBoard.jpg)

3) FULL RANGE SOUND (FULL RANGE DRIVER)

Most computer speakers have to make do with just one drive unit to handle the full spectrum of frequencies. Not so with the MM-1. Just like a full-size speaker, it has two drivers, one dedicated to bass and midrange frequencies and another for the treble. So there’s a reason why MM-1 reproduces sound with the accuracy of a true hi-fi speaker: that's exactly what it is.
(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/lowkenny/FullRangeSoundDriver.jpg)

4) HIGH QUALITY HEAD PHONE OUT PUT
MM-1 makes private listening a pleasure, thanks to its high-quality headphone output. When you plug your headphones directly into the speakers, the audio from your computer is enhanced by high quality DACs used in the MM-1, producing a sound that’s a noticeable improvement over the standard PC or Mac headphone output.

5) USB STREAMING
Computer speakers normally have to rely on the wildly varying quality of the computer's analogue output signal. MM-1 is different. It streams audio directly from your computer via USB and converts the signal from digital to analogue internally. So you'll always get the best possible audio quality, independent of the computer output.

This would be all for some of the introductory for the B&W MM1 Desktop Multimedia loudspeakers as for now and on the 3rd thread I will be input some of the images of how the Bowers and Wilkins MM1 looks like.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: sagibit on February 06, 2010, 16:30
Hi lowkenny,

If your posting are just purely to market B&W products which many of your posting are, it may be better for you to start a new thread for sales or post your intro in the sales section. Its not right to misuse the forum for marketing sales in non sales section/thread...........
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on February 06, 2010, 17:36
so much info and pictures but no price...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on February 06, 2010, 18:41
Hi Sir,

I do believe that this thread is out for all forumers and also the publics to read what the brand Bowers and Wilkins have in store for us.

Reason why I do wanted to post in here (ex: New Products (MM1)) is just that I would want all those that are interested in the Bowers and Wilkins MM1 speakers knows that we will be getting the audition unit and also just wanted to invite them to drop by to have an audition on the speakers.

Maybe I have been posting too much in here? (ex: Technical Specs, Images, Introductions on the MM1, Technologies?)

Maybe this is what you think that I'm much in the marketing side?  :D

Cheers.
KNY

Hi lowkenny,

If your posting are just purely to market B&W products which many of your posting are, it may be better for you to start a new thread for sales or post your intro in the sales section. Its not right to misuse the forum for marketing sales in non sales section/thread...........
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on February 06, 2010, 18:47
Hi Quest and to All,

The retail price for the Bowers and Wilkins MM1 multimedia speakers would be: $899.00

Please feel free to drop by to our showroom in Lavender (12th February 2010) to have an audition on it.  :D

Cheers.
KNY

so much info and pictures but no price...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: sagibit on February 07, 2010, 06:35
I do believe that this thread is out for all forumers and also the publics to read what the brand Bowers and Wilkins have in store for us.

No doubt that this thread is out for all and public, there is too much excessive marketing by the distributor in this thread. There is no need to have multiple threads pasting photos and technical specification. All these information can be easily found on B&W website and a simple link will suffice.

There are other distributors in other owner threads who contribute to the discussion (not by pasting technical specs) to support their brand and help out owners. There is more owner participation and sharing of their experiences. This actually helps to promote the brand in a more positive way and show the distributor sincerity in supporting customers. However, reading your posts, it seems like you are more interested in pushing sales/marketing under the disguise of 'sharing' rather than a genuine sincerity to support and help owners.

Reason why I do wanted to post in here (ex: New Products (MM1)) is just that I would want all those that are interested in the Bowers and Wilkins MM1 speakers knows that we will be getting the audition unit and also just wanted to invite them to drop by to have an audition on the speakers.

Maybe I have been posting too much in here? (ex: Technical Specs, Images, Introductions on the MM1, Technologies?)

Maybe this is what you think that I'm much in the marketing side?

I believe that most of the forumers here are mature working professionals. Whether you are posting too much or doing marketing/sales, I will let others be the judge.

If the intent is to promote/market your products and what TEG have for B&W, it may be better that a separate dedicated thread on B&W products be created to share product information. In this way, others who are interested in the latest offerings by B&W will know where to search and there will be more owner participation in this owner's thread. That will help increase brand awareness more effectively.

Not trying to start a flame ware here, but excessive sales/marketing in non appropriate threads may backfire and do more harm than good......

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on February 10, 2010, 11:56
Hi All,

Just want to let you guy's know that the Bowers and Wilkins MM1 multimedia speakers are here in our showroom for audition.

For those who are interested in that, please feel free to drop by our showroom in Lavender.

Cheers.
KNY



By the way just wanna wish all forumer's here:

Happy Lunar New Year!!

As part of our tradition, we will be shut for the 1st week of Lunar New Year.
We will be shut as follows:

13th Feb – early shut-down from 3pm.
14th Feb to 21st Feb – Holiday shut down.
22nd Feb – resume normal operations

During our shutdown, should you require any urgent assistance, pls call 96367426 (do not SMS). We can make some arrangement to assist you.

Regards,
The Management
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on April 05, 2010, 13:57
Hi All,

After the launch for the B&W MM1 audiophile multimedia desktop speakers, I have received a lot of pm regarding the reviews from some of the forumers in here as well.

Recently Hardwarezone has a review on the B&W MM1:

Please follow the link to read more on them:
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/product-guide/view/7733/review/7759

Please do note that there would be a total of 5 pages of the review, inclusive of the specs as well.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on April 05, 2010, 14:00
Hi All,

We are pleased to announce that the new series of Diamond has arrived in our showroom.

For the time being we have received just the B&W 805D, please feel free to drop by to our showroom to have an audition on them .

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 18, 2010, 13:07
Hi All,

We're proud to announce that the 805 Diamond loudspeaker has been awarded European High-End Loudspeaker 2010-2011 by the European Imaging and Sound Association (EISA).

Here would be some of the reviews and excerpts:

The 805 Diamond is possibly the most requested speaker that Bowers & Wilkins has never made… until now. This groundbreaking bookshelf model sees diamond tweeter technology arrive in the most affordable, real-world speaker yet, and brings this level of stunning audio performance into the reach of many discerning listeners for the first time.

"The EISA judging panel concluded: “Bowers & Wilkins’ classic 805 standmount loudspeaker gets the ‘Diamond’ makeover. Additionally boasting an innovative 4-magnet motor design, the new Nautilus tube-loaded tweeter, a revised bass/midrange driver and uprated crossover are housed in its matrix-inspired cabinet'.

Please feel free to dropby to have an auditon on the speakers and please let us know what is your feedback on the B&W805D :)

Cheers
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Quest on August 18, 2010, 13:52
This groundbreaking bookshelf model sees diamond tweeter technology arrive in the most affordable, real-world speaker yet....
Most affordable diamond tweeter speaker, I believe, is from Usher..

From US list price of 805S at US$2.5k to 805D at US$5k.. I wonder how big the jump is at TEG..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 23, 2010, 18:45
Hi Quest,

Yes, I do can agree with you that the prices for the B&W 805D is more expensive comparing to the other brands and model that you have mention in here, to a certain extend that even a few (not only that) instead in put most of them that came and drop by before to our showroom to have an audition on it have purchased it from us.

I do still remember that the first and a few pairs and even many of them have got that from us at a resonable price.

Yes and just want to mention again that:
The (EISA) is one of: The prestigious award is decided upon by representatives of the Hi-Fi reviewing community from across Europe.

Cheers.
KNY

Most affordable diamond tweeter speaker, I believe, is from Usher..

From US list price of 805S at US$2.5k to 805D at US$5k.. I wonder how big the jump is at TEG..
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Ratatouille on August 23, 2010, 19:45
Err we are living in South East Asia. In this case Singapore. We have yet to see anyone here share their views on your new range. We do not want overseas reviewers but local bros experiences that can share their views.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Heckler on August 29, 2010, 11:33
Wow..been to B&W showroom in Lavender leow..but then hor parking there cannot make it lah..

Btw its ok lah,no one saman me..I go there just for listen to the MM1 as what Kenny say here.

Go in shop liao, then see the MM1 leow.. damn nice leh..chio also..then proceed to listen to the speaker lah,..Dt care soo much also.. listen 1st couse i looking for a PC speaker as well. this guy looks clean and nice le..proceed to the sound.. WOW.. the mid and the high is damn fantastic.. really a damn great PC speakers to me lah..btw hor the low frequency is not that great lah..to me it's ok couse i do not use this speakers to blast my song lah..couse i also not into those blaring song de..

Also need to take in consideration that this is such a small speaker, i do not also expect it to be sound big like those big big guys.. :D End of the day bought the MM1 home and my wife damn SUKAK the design leh.. she ask me how much but I have to tell her that i buy only $300!!! :D :D

Now broke leow...no money buy other speaker for my living room liao.. guess i have to stick back to those Sony and Samsung leow.. :(

Hi All,

After the launch for the B&W MM1 audiophile multimedia desktop speakers, I have received a lot of pm regarding the reviews from some of the forumers in here as well.

Recently Hardwarezone has a review on the B&W MM1:

Please follow the link to read more on them:
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/product-guide/view/7733/review/7759

Please do note that there would be a total of 5 pages of the review, inclusive of the specs as well.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 31, 2010, 14:54
Hi Sir,

Yes I do agree to you that we in Asian country will need to based on the review that is made over here, but then again it's sad that just say Singapore is only about 5mil population. And in the case of europe, the population, the amount of reviewers over in other bigger countries (Europe) are bigger and the reliability of those reviews will be so much more than this part of the world.

By the way I do come to know that we do have a few of the owners that did not participate themselves in this forum.

Cheers.
KNY 

Err we are living in South East Asia. In this case Singapore. We have yet to see anyone here share their views on your new range. We do not want overseas reviewers but local bros experiences that can share their views.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on August 31, 2010, 14:59
Hi Sir,

Thanks a for the purchase and the support that you have given to us when you are here in our showroom to purchase the B&W MM1 PC Speakers.

Please let me know if you need any further assistance from us.

Cheers.
KNY

Wow..been to B&W showroom in Lavender leow..but then hor parking there cannot make it lah..

Btw its ok lah,no one saman me..I go there just for listen to the MM1 as what Kenny say here.

Go in shop liao, then see the MM1 leow.. damn nice leh..chio also..then proceed to listen to the speaker lah,..Dt care soo much also.. listen 1st couse i looking for a PC speaker as well. this guy looks clean and nice le..proceed to the sound.. WOW.. the mid and the high is damn fantastic.. really a damn great PC speakers to me lah..btw hor the low frequency is not that great lah..to me it's ok couse i do not use this speakers to blast my song lah..couse i also not into those blaring song de..

Also need to take in consideration that this is such a small speaker, i do not also expect it to be sound big like those big big guys.. :D End of the day bought the MM1 home and my wife damn SUKAK the design leh.. she ask me how much but I have to tell her that i buy only $300!!! :D :D

Now broke leow...no money buy other speaker for my living room liao.. guess i have to stick back to those Sony and Samsung leow.. :(

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: christino on September 08, 2010, 22:22
KNY,

I belive that the new Diamond (d2) series put the "old" Diamond (d1) series into a discounted price. Am I correct?

I am looking for a pair of 803D and would like to know the price and availability. I do not see reasons to pay the extra price for the new series, mainly when there is the possibility to get something new and discounted.

Regards
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on October 28, 2010, 11:37
Hi,
Been away for a while and believe I need to post a short and overdued apology on the over-zealous postings by our sales staff. 

I will request Kenny to edit/shorten all the product posting that he have made so that it does not occupy too much of the page.

We assure that there is no intention to convert this to a marketing thread.  We have our own newsletter system.

Apologies again.
Regards
Jason Teong
The Experts Group Pte Ltd

A member of Singapore Service Star

e. & o. e.

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lonesax on October 28, 2010, 14:19
Actually whats all the fuss about, if u are unhappy about the price why dont u get it from overseas and ship it back. Not sure if it would be cheaper hmm
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on November 24, 2010, 17:39
Hi All,

We are glad to let all forumer's know that we do have the new B&W CM8 for audition in our showroom in Lavender.

There will be a new new color which is White that is available to the B&W CM8 as well.

Cheers,
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: martin1023 on November 25, 2010, 22:00
Any 5.1 speakers in the range of $1500?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on December 08, 2010, 13:29
Hi Martin,

Sorry for the late reply.

Sorry to let you down that we do not have any 5.1 speakers as per your comfortable price range.

You might want to drop by our showroom in Lavender to have an audition on the B&W MT25 which one of the most entry level Home Theater Setup, and not to forget this is the Best Product of the year in What Hi Fi 2010.

Cheers.
KNY
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Idlewise4ever on December 19, 2010, 22:17
May I know how much is 802D n P5 ?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on December 20, 2010, 13:46
Hi,

We have already sent you a PM on the prices that you have requested.

By the way just want to let you know that the B&W P5 is one fo the winner for the Best Product 2010 in Home Thearter Review.com

May I know how much is 802D n P5 ?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: deaf.eye on December 20, 2010, 15:12
Hi Kenny,
What are the prices of 802D in their different finishes?
Thank you
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: rabboi on January 10, 2011, 00:07
HI Kenny,

Thinking of matching the cm8 with the Marantz SR 7005. Would you think is matching?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on January 14, 2011, 12:25
Hi deaf.eye

I have already sent you a PM on the price of the B&W 802D2 as per requested.

Cheers.
KNY

Hi Kenny,
What are the prices of 802D in their different finishes?
Thank you
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: superblackbird on January 14, 2011, 15:26
Hi Kenny,can you let me know what is the price for the 805 speaker stand.silver/black.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: siatc on January 15, 2011, 23:32
hi, can you let me know the price of 683? Is it available in the the showroom for audition?
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: durianlover88 on January 16, 2011, 07:35
Hi Kenny, like to check when is new Zeppelin Air coming to SG and it's price?
I tried to check it's input and output connections but seems details not available...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: qrm on January 16, 2011, 09:17
Err we are living in South East Asia. In this case Singapore. We have yet to see anyone here share their views on your new range. We do not want overseas reviewers but local bros experiences that can share their views.

Just a note to say for one system I have the M1 5 speaker set up with two PV-1 subs, so far very please with the sound I have the kef eggs in another room, the M1 sound more impressive but that could just be down to running two subs.

The only issues is fitting the speakers onto the stands is very fiddly, the cable binding posts are difficult to get access. The other proeblem one of the speaker when I first got them was faulty, ( never had a fault speaker before) but Keith from Eighteen 77 Pte Ltd, was great had a replacement one for me the next day. 

I also purchased the ipod zeppelin speaker system, it fills the living room ( 7 meter high ceilings) with amazing sound ( obviously not loud but more background type of music). so very happy with the speakers and service from keith.

Going to order another set of M1 for the bedroom system.  Wife likes them as you cant see them.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: Camtree on January 16, 2011, 10:04
Hi

 May i have the price for 804d? Thank you.
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on January 17, 2011, 12:01
Hi durianlover88,

We do not have any fixed arrival date yet for the Zeppelin Air in Singapore. Same goes to the price of the new Zeppelin Air.

We will update everyone if there is any available of new updates.

Cheers.
KNY

Hi Kenny, like to check when is new Zeppelin Air coming to SG and it's price?
I tried to check it's input and output connections but seems details not available...
Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: lowkenny on January 17, 2011, 12:17
Hi rabboi,

Got to know that you are considering the B&W CM8 to match with the Marantz SR7005.

Yes, you can pair the Marantz SR7005 to drive the B&W CM8, but you might want to consider the Yamaha RX-V1067 (WhatHiFi 5 star awards winning AVR) as well.

Here would be the review for the Yamaha RX-V1067:
http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Yamaha-RX-V1067/

Cheers.
KNY

HI Kenny,

Thinking of matching the cm8 with the Marantz SR 7005. Would you think is matching?

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: rabboi on January 17, 2011, 13:39
Hi Kenny,

Thks for the reply, do you have current stock for black cm8

Title: Re: Bowers & Wilkins Speakers Owners
Post by: jasonteong on February 09, 2011, 12:02
Hi all,
Will like to post a small reminder to inform consumers to be careful with certain online retailers that have claimed to be authorised retailer based in Singapore and can offer very low prices for B&W products.  We regret that B&W's policy is not to have any online retailers except for Apple related products.

We have recieved both queries from B&W and also complains from end-consumers that have paid for their orders and never got their goods.  For such casese, we can only apologise as there is nothing we can do to help recover the monies paid, as these are not authroised retailers.  We can only offer special prices on new purchase to alleviate the pain.

We kindly request consumers to be careful and to verify such retailers before making the purchase.

Sincere regards and Happy Lunar New Year.

Jason Teong
General Manager
The Experts Group Pte Ltd
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