XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Displays & Projector => Topic started by: ronildoq on May 13, 2020, 14:31

Title: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 13, 2020, 14:31
Just got a loan set from our local distributor today, the HD Fury vertex 2! 4k version. I’ll be hooking this up with the spare hdmi 2.1 cables I have in the store room, accell. Just nice can test it out on both my OLED LG tv and the BenQ for HDR. From my experience, the BenQ 5700 doesn’t do a good job at tone mapping, that’s personally verified by me. The SDR 4k, as I know, is fantastic .

The HD fury could be my answer for HDR on the BenQ, as it always using the LG EDID or Sony’s EDID. Frame adapt HDR is also available.

It also allows for scaling to a higher 12 bit colour depth and using Oppo 205 player-led feature, can allow the conversion and use of LLDV / dolby vision on the Projector and Apple TV.

Let’s see how it goes . Front and back pics of the device. Stay tuned

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/4686e2625193f4de7b6378b5be0d81ae.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/a2a77306f80095d8ec08b52630ae4799.jpg)

Quick glance

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/3352f8ce975eba19ca6bc878c7cd29e6.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/ce9978e301c1703f4126c51c1b2e3409.jpg)

Gotta bring out my colorimeter and recalibrate for HDR again. Let’s see how it goes.

If this works, then it’s a game changer! It’s an inexpensive solution for HDR with dynamic tone mapping


Any HD Fury fans here ? Please fall in.... shoot !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 13, 2020, 14:35
I have been using it on my 760ES. Works really well. See an improvement on Mandalorian and Black Panther.

I use HDR Reference mode (1000 nits) on my projector and set the HDFury to pretend it is a 1000 nits LLDV display.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 13, 2020, 15:04
I have been using it on my 760ES. Works really well. See an improvement on Mandalorian and Black Panther.

I use HDR Reference mode (1000 nits) on my projector and set the HDFury to pretend it is a 1000 nits LLDV display.


Thanks doggie howser, are you using the same model ?


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 13, 2020, 15:11
3 Models to choose from.  I am still wondering which one to get.

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 15:26
3 Models to choose from.  I am still wondering which one to get.

(Audio)
Recommend to go with the vertex 2. Web interface. Easier to nav too.

Diva if you still have 1080p sinks and maestro if you need to run long distance.. hope this helps.

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on May 13, 2020, 15:31
Hi all I have the basic vertex1 using it with Sony VPL 260ES and an old LG OLED non 4k non HDR.
I bought it initially to solve handshake issues with the 2 sinks above with my sources (Apple TV4k, Pioneer LX500, Roku, StarHub box) through the Acurus Muse Pre Pro. Works great, I set all on auto. Although now trying the LLDV trick..
.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 13, 2020, 15:35
Ha, so you guys solved the HDMI handshaking problem with the FD Fury devices.  Yes, far cost effective way of doing it instead of costly long-run silver wired or optical HDMI cables.

OK, I will buy a Vertex soon.

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 15:41
Ha, so you guys solved the HDMI handshaking problem with the FD Fury devices.  Yes, far cost effective way of doing it instead of costly long-run silver wired or optical HDMI cables.

OK, I will buy a Vertex soon.

(Audio)
Let me wait for my distributor pricelist before quote. Hold your horses at the moment ya lol.

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 15:47
Hi all I have the basic vertex1 using it with Sony VPL 260ES and an old LG OLED non 4k non HDR.
I bought it initially to solve handshake issues with the 2 sinks above with my sources (Apple TV4k, Pioneer LX500, Roku, StarHub box) through the Acurus Muse Pre Pro. Works great, I set all on auto. Although now trying the LLDV trick..
.
Haha. Yeah. Solving handshake is the fundamentals... Playing with the EDIDs to improve the colors in-between LLDV and HDR is the Interesting part.

Just too bad.. I have no HDR TV nor prj haha

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 13, 2020, 17:53
nice. how much is one bro roughly?
Just got a loan set from our local distributor today, the HD Fury vertex 2! 4k version. I’ll be hooking this up with the spare hdmi 2.1 cables I have in the store room, accell. Just nice can test it out on both my OLED LG tv and the BenQ for HDR. From my experience, the BenQ 5700 doesn’t do a good job at tone mapping, that’s personally verified by me. The SDR 4k, as I know, is fantastic .

The HD fury could be my answer for HDR on the BenQ, as it always using the LG EDID or Sony’s EDID. Frame adapt HDR is also available.

It also allows for scaling to a higher 12 bit colour depth and using Oppo 205 player-led feature, can allow the conversion and use of LLDV / dolby vision on the Projector and Apple TV.

Let’s see how it goes . Front and back pics of the device. Stay tuned

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/4686e2625193f4de7b6378b5be0d81ae.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/a2a77306f80095d8ec08b52630ae4799.jpg)

Quick glance

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/3352f8ce975eba19ca6bc878c7cd29e6.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200513/ce9978e301c1703f4126c51c1b2e3409.jpg)

Gotta bring out my colorimeter and recalibrate for HDR again. Let’s see how it goes.

If this works, then it’s a game changer! It’s an inexpensive solution for HDR with dynamic tone mapping


Any HD Fury fans here ? Please fall in.... shoot !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 13, 2020, 18:05
I got the Vertex 2. Seemed really easy and used by someone in AVS with the 760ES.

I used his settings.


Vertex 2 Guide

Assumes you're putting the Vertex 2 between the receiver and the projector.

Go to the web page for your Vertex 2, click on Config tab. Go down to FW Update. Upload new 0.49 firmware. Wait a minute.

Clear browser cache, then reload page.

EDID Tab

Check Automix
Video flags TX0 (main output that is primarily for 4k)
Audio flags stereo (projector doesn't do sound anyway)
HDR Flags - check HLG as the projector does support that
DV Flags - check box

Scaler Tab

Check Autoscaling radio button
Tick box to not upscale for TX0

HDR/AVI Tab

Check "Use custom HDR... input is LLDV"

EOTF, set as SMPTE ST 2084, BT2020-2, D65
Max luminate 1000
Min Luminance 0.005
Max CLL 1000 (matches HDR Ref on Sony)
MaxFALL leave at 400

Click Create IF
Click Send HDR

DV Tab

Construct Custom DV Data Block

DV Interface Low Latency 12 bit YCbCR 422 (haven't tried other options yet)
Primaries DCI P3
YUV 422 12 bit supported
Global Dimming not supported
Backlight not supported
Backlight min lum n/a

Set primaries. Unless you have your own values from calibrations, I suggest you stick to the standard RGB primaries.

Max luminance, set at 1000 nits to match the Ref HDR curve. Min luminance, set at 0.005, which seems to work well with projectors.

Click create, then send DV.

OSD Tab

Change fade time as it gets flipping annoying...

Config Tab

Check HDCP 1.4 to make it quicker syncs and slightly less bandwidth, therefore slightly better reliability on long runs

Enjoy!

If I find anything that needs tweaking, I'll update the post.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 18:09
I got the Vertex 2. Seemed really easy and used by someone in AVS with the 760ES.

I used his settings.


Vertex 2 Guide

Assumes you're putting the Vertex 2 between the receiver and the projector.

Go to the web page for your Vertex 2, click on Config tab. Go down to FW Update. Upload new 0.49 firmware. Wait a minute.

Clear browser cache, then reload page.

EDID Tab

Check Automix
Video flags TX0 (main output that is primarily for 4k)
Audio flags stereo (projector doesn't do sound anyway)
HDR Flags - check HLG as the projector does support that
DV Flags - check box

Scaler Tab

Check Autoscaling radio button
Tick box to not upscale for TX0

HDR/AVI Tab

Check "Use custom HDR... input is LLDV"

EOTF, set as SMPTE ST 2084, BT2020-2, D65
Max luminate 1000
Min Luminance 0.005
Max CLL 1000 (matches HDR Ref on Sony)
MaxFALL leave at 400

Click Create IF
Click Send HDR

DV Tab

Construct Custom DV Data Block

DV Interface Low Latency 12 bit YCbCR 422 (haven't tried other options yet)
Primaries DCI P3
YUV 422 12 bit supported
Global Dimming not supported
Backlight not supported
Backlight min lum n/a

Set primaries. Unless you have your own values from calibrations, I suggest you stick to the standard RGB primaries.

Max luminance, set at 1000 nits to match the Ref HDR curve. Min luminance, set at 0.005, which seems to work well with projectors.

Click create, then send DV.

OSD Tab

Change fade time as it gets flipping annoying...

Config Tab

Check HDCP 1.4 to make it quicker syncs and slightly less bandwidth, therefore slightly better reliability on long runs

Enjoy!

If I find anything that needs tweaking, I'll update the post.
Nice nice!

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 18:10
I got the Vertex 2. Seemed really easy and used by someone in AVS with the 760ES.

I used his settings.


Vertex 2 Guide

Assumes you're putting the Vertex 2 between the receiver and the projector.

Go to the web page for your Vertex 2, click on Config tab. Go down to FW Update. Upload new 0.49 firmware. Wait a minute.

Clear browser cache, then reload page.

EDID Tab

Check Automix
Video flags TX0 (main output that is primarily for 4k)
Audio flags stereo (projector doesn't do sound anyway)
HDR Flags - check HLG as the projector does support that
DV Flags - check box

Scaler Tab

Check Autoscaling radio button
Tick box to not upscale for TX0

HDR/AVI Tab

Check "Use custom HDR... input is LLDV"

EOTF, set as SMPTE ST 2084, BT2020-2, D65
Max luminate 1000
Min Luminance 0.005
Max CLL 1000 (matches HDR Ref on Sony)
MaxFALL leave at 400

Click Create IF
Click Send HDR

DV Tab

Construct Custom DV Data Block

DV Interface Low Latency 12 bit YCbCR 422 (haven't tried other options yet)
Primaries DCI P3
YUV 422 12 bit supported
Global Dimming not supported
Backlight not supported
Backlight min lum n/a

Set primaries. Unless you have your own values from calibrations, I suggest you stick to the standard RGB primaries.

Max luminance, set at 1000 nits to match the Ref HDR curve. Min luminance, set at 0.005, which seems to work well with projectors.

Click create, then send DV.

OSD Tab

Change fade time as it gets flipping annoying...

Config Tab

Check HDCP 1.4 to make it quicker syncs and slightly less bandwidth, therefore slightly better reliability on long runs

Enjoy!

If I find anything that needs tweaking, I'll update the post.
Have you tried putting between the source and receiver instead, then to prj?

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 13, 2020, 19:00
nice. how much is one bro roughly?

No idea man, its a loan set. Got the loan from winwin the distributor here but the feedback is positive from AVForum users. I don’t know, I haven’t tested. Cant confirm how good it is at this stage.

Gathering some information and will be testing this out personally, looks like a great device for HDR tone mapping , let’s see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 13, 2020, 19:14
Thanks doggie howser! I’ll try it out. I’ll be using player-led dolby vision from Oppo, vertex2 PJ. Not running it through the avr for now. Test it first see how it goes

I’m keen to check out the quality of the dynamic tone mapping for HDR on the HD fury, that’s my main focus with this toy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on May 13, 2020, 21:31
I got the Vertex 2. Seemed really easy and used by someone in AVS with the 760ES.

I used his settings.


Vertex 2 Guide

Assumes you're putting the Vertex 2 between the receiver and the projector.

Go to the web page for your Vertex 2, click on Config tab. Go down to FW Update. Upload new 0.49 firmware. Wait a minute.

Clear browser cache, then reload page.

EDID Tab

Check Automix
Video flags TX0 (main output that is primarily for 4k)
Audio flags stereo (projector doesn't do sound anyway)
HDR Flags - check HLG as the projector does support that
DV Flags - check box

Scaler Tab

Check Autoscaling radio button
Tick box to not upscale for TX0

HDR/AVI Tab

Check "Use custom HDR... input is LLDV"

EOTF, set as SMPTE ST 2084, BT2020-2, D65
Max luminate 1000
Min Luminance 0.005
Max CLL 1000 (matches HDR Ref on Sony)
MaxFALL leave at 400

Click Create IF
Click Send HDR

DV Tab

Construct Custom DV Data Block

DV Interface Low Latency 12 bit YCbCR 422 (haven't tried other options yet)
Primaries DCI P3
YUV 422 12 bit supported
Global Dimming not supported
Backlight not supported
Backlight min lum n/a

Set primaries. Unless you have your own values from calibrations, I suggest you stick to the standard RGB primaries.

Max luminance, set at 1000 nits to match the Ref HDR curve. Min luminance, set at 0.005, which seems to work well with projectors.

Click create, then send DV.

OSD Tab

Change fade time as it gets flipping annoying...

Config Tab

Check HDCP 1.4 to make it quicker syncs and slightly less bandwidth, therefore slightly better reliability on long runs

Enjoy!

If I find anything that needs tweaking, I'll update the post.

I'll be borrowing the Vertex2 to try your settings as suggested to see how it works with my Sony VPL260ES if the results are good I will upgrade from the Vertex1 to Vertex2...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sanhas on May 13, 2020, 22:30
Will this thing resolve the drop out image for the 4k content when using normal hdmi cable? (Meaning using those non fiber hdmi cable. )
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 22:49
Will this thing resolve the drop out image for the 4k content when using normal hdmi cable? (Meaning using those non fiber hdmi cable. )
How long is your copper HDMI cable?

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 13, 2020, 22:54
Will this thing resolve the drop out image for the 4k content when using normal hdmi cable? (Meaning using those non fiber hdmi cable. )

I bought my optical HDMI cables (15M) for about $400 in 2017.   :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 13, 2020, 23:20
I bought my optical HDMI cables (15M) for about $400 in 2017.   :)

(Audio)
Holy! But yeah... This is the way to go. Despite the devices, still at mercy of the length. Best to go with fiber or active cable.

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 13, 2020, 23:34
Got it up and running, setting them up was pretty easy thanks to the videos on YouTube, an hour or so thanks to doggies recommended settings. Made sense. Still comparing a few different stuff. It is promising indeed , HDR is looking good on the BenQ ..... will share more information along the way... not bad, worth exploring
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 14, 2020, 06:41
Have you tried putting between the source and receiver instead, then to prj?

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk
I didn’t. This gave me a way to test direct vs LLDV to my projector. So I can do quick AB. I use Vertex 2 on second HDMI out from AVR
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 14, 2020, 06:43
Got it up and running, setting them up was pretty easy thanks to the videos on YouTube, an hour or so thanks to doggies recommended settings. Made sense. Still comparing a few different stuff. It is promising indeed , HDR is looking good on the BenQ ..... will share more information along the way... not bad, worth exploring

Try Black Panther Dolby Vision. A lot better. Especially in the opening dark scenes.

I still prefer Panasonic 820’s processing for those scenes. But the Oppo and AppleTV fared a lot better
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sanhas on May 14, 2020, 07:03
How long is your copper HDMI cable?
10m.
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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 14, 2020, 09:09
Nice nice!

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

bro win, roughly how much is 1 set?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: rock123 on May 14, 2020, 09:36
bro win, roughly how much is 1 set?

bro saw this :)

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=295790.0
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 14, 2020, 09:38
Try Black Panther Dolby Vision. A lot better. Especially in the opening dark scenes.

I still prefer Panasonic 820’s processing for those scenes. But the Oppo and AppleTV fared a lot better

Yea will definitely try that, I try to use a setting that preserves the best shadow details on the BenQ , at the lower ends 10% stimulus, blacks crush. Using the Oppo to compensate for best shadow details.

I tried playing a 4000nit HDR content, whites are still crushed, looked washed out on the horse scene from spears and munsil 4k disc. Still experimenting to limit the max nits from the source content so it doesn’t clip brightness

But the device is pretty versatile, so many thing I can do with such a small device
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 14, 2020, 09:44
bro saw this :)

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=295790.0

Oh! Pricing is out ! That’s fast.

So far even on REC709 SDR, I’m getting 12bit colour depth, they look beautiful on an already beautiful rec709 4k SDR, there is nice improvement in image quality on the SDR 4k rec709, they look really natural and I less grain. This suggest there is some form of noise cleaning in the picture? I don’t know. But definitely can see the difference on the colours, checking the info shows 12bit colour depth.

Very nice, not bad for the device. Looks pretty promising so far

I’ll share some pictures with HDR soon, still tweaking about. let’s hope it doesn’t disappoint
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 14, 2020, 12:52
bro saw this :)

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=295790.0


Ooo nice. Thanks bro.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ralfale on May 14, 2020, 16:42
Good product at an affordable price.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 14, 2020, 19:00
Yea will definitely try that, I try to use a setting that preserves the best shadow details on the BenQ , at the lower ends 10% stimulus, blacks crush. Using the Oppo to compensate for best shadow details.

I tried playing a 4000nit HDR content, whites are still crushed, looked washed out on the horse scene from spears and munsil 4k disc. Still experimenting to limit the max nits from the source content so it doesn’t clip brightness

But the device is pretty versatile, so many thing I can do with such a small device

Why are you watching a 4000 nit image with LLDV conversion? You can set the LLDV settings to 4000 nits. I use 1000.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 14, 2020, 19:48
Why are you watching a 4000 nit image with LLDV conversion? You can set the LLDV settings to 4000 nits. I use 1000.

I was just testing the quality. I have some solid videos tone mapped at source, 4000 nits material, Tekno3d movies.

I’m testing how to limit the output , the PJ can’t handle well with sources mastered at 4000nits, a lot of tweaking required for contrast....

Still playing with it. So far so good, looks pretty impressive even on SDR HD material I’m seeing some solid improvements . But it’s the HDR quality I’m after
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 14, 2020, 21:39
New video from HDfury in the Diva, can be use for vertex 2 as well.

https://youtu.be/ivuLDYma7n4

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 14, 2020, 23:05
So it seems that the key differences between the HDFury Vertex 2 and Diva (more expensive) are the following:

- Extra 3 EDID flags for Diva Only
- Input Lag tester for Diva Only
- Ambient Light kit for Diva Only

While the rest of the features for both models are the same?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 14, 2020, 23:10
So it seems that the key differences between the HDFury Vertex 2 and Diva (more expensive) are the following:

- Extra 3 EDID flags for Diva Only
- Input Lag tester for Diva Only
- Ambient Light kit for Diva Only

While the rest of the features for both models are the same?
Yes it's the same one more key difference is one of the port in diva is a perm downscale port. Which means whatever goes in will down to 1080p. And it can convert HDR to SDR

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 15, 2020, 06:38
Yes it's the same one more key difference is one of the port in diva is a perm downscale port. Which means whatever goes in will down to 1080p. And it can convert HDR to SDR

Sent from my Asus ROG ll using Tapatalk
Thks on the additional info on Diva. I'm contemplating whether to get the Vertex 2 for some time now, not because of the LLDV profile 5 (custom) to trick non-DV display (a projector) to receive a DV image but because of its ability to autoswitch to the appropriate HDMI resolution, signal and frequency as I switch through various inputs.

Take note there are only 4 Inputs which is considered plenty for average users. I have a HTPC, Pioneer LX500, Panasonic UB-420 (does not support DV hence unable to take adv of the LLDV but comes with the prominent HDR Optimiser), Xbox X One & nvidia Shield TV (last 2 devices usually used for my Netflix streaming). I have been using HTPC with madVR for serious 4K HDR content and for the most part, the madVR DTM is working great and able to produce very good 4K HDR image with plenty of light output for my projector using laser as output. If I were to get the HDFury Vertex 2, I'm pretty sure it will serve me well in the Netflix streaming of 4K with DV content to get the best PQ. Because there is only 4 Inputs, I may need to run another HDMI cable to the HDMI 2 Output of my projector. An inconvenience, some may think...in my case I will probably have to omit the Panny UB-420 since there is no DV decoding).

The splitter/matrix mode that is able to copy the output EDID from the main display (TX0)will hell to resolve my DENON dual display problem when I switch between 2 4K display outputs (I'm using 4K Samsung 4K with HDR PC monitor as my secondary display for non critical viewing).

Whoever buy this, must know what you want to achieve out of this gadget... If you have an Oppo 4K bluray player and able to do Force DV and you do happen to be a firm believer of the unparelled 4K HDR PQ can only be produced by a physical medium, then this Vertex 2 or Diva will be a great addition to your repertoire of HT video equipment. This is meant for projector user who wants a better 4K HDR image because so far projector is unable to  reap the benefits of a dynamic meta data which results in better frame by frame and scene by scene images. For those already owned a JVC N5 or N7, I don't think there is a need for you to rush out and get this unless your JVC projector is giving u resolution and frequency issue when switching various sources. Buy for the right reason so that you will not be disappointed.

For existing projector users, the reason why you buy this is because most of us are not getting great 4K HDR image quality due to the projector as a low light source display. If your projector is unable to reproduce a certain lumens and the display technology like DLP is a limiting factor etc, this efficacy if this device will be limited somewhat.

I will like to stress again in case bro Sevenz and many others who dun have a projector but already have a 4K HDR TV that supports DV/HDR/HDR10+/HLG wanted to spend on this gadget for the wrong reasons. For me as a projector user, I am seriously considering this Vertex 2 now that winwin81 is carrying it locally here.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: DJQ on May 15, 2020, 08:00
err will it help in any way for my optoma PJ?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 09:56
I’ve now experienced first hand on the capabilities of the HD fury and I must say it’s fantastic for the price ! I’ll be getting one unit myself, as I am seeing the benefits not only on HDR content, even on 1080p rec709 content its showing improvement with 12 bit colour depth

The other reason is my lyngdorf mp50 only allows for 2160p 30fps, I’m not able to take advantage of Apple TV 4K LLDV. Using the fury, I can now have ATV4K video fed through the fury and DD+ Atmos audio out to lyngdorf, this way I’ll benefit again on streaming video quality

As mentioned by desray above, the limitations of the hardware (ie light output from PJ) is the only limiting factor, it is extremely versatile and I can apply JVC’s frame adapt HDR , at what price ? $600? We know where the Lumagen price sits , not cheap

Based on the observations I have so far, the HDR on the BenQ has improved leaps and bounds, it is watchable now , getting nicer and colours look way more natural. Much closer to the original

My current solution was to turn off HDR and let the dynamic iris work for HDR content. But this method whilst works, doesn’t have the same level as HDR with good luminance, specular highlights look slightly dull. With the versatility of the fury, I can now control the light output for content and tweak the HDR brightness curve -2,-1,0,1,2 accordingly

Pretty impressed with this small little device , highly recommended.

I will proceed to recalibrate for HDR and SDR. This device stays in the chain !

Ps: by the way, is there a remote to change inputs? Assuming they share the same outputs ?

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 15, 2020, 10:09
I’ve now experienced first hand on the capabilities of the HD fury and I must say it’s fantastic for the price ! I’ll be getting one unit myself, as I am seeing the benefits not only on HDR content, even on 1080p rec709 content its showing improvement with 12 bit colour depth

The other reason is my lyngdorf mp50 only allows for 2160p 30fps, I’m not able to take advantage of Apple TV 4K LLDV. Using the fury, I can now have ATV4K video fed through the fury and DD+ Atmos audio out to lyngdorf, this way I’ll benefit again on streaming video quality

As mentioned by desray above, the limitations of the hardware (ie light output from PJ) is the only limiting factor, it is extremely versatile and I can apply JVC’s frame adapt HDR , at what price ? $600? We know where the Lumagen price sits , not cheap

Based on the observations I have so far, the HDR on the BenQ has improved leaps and bounds, it is watchable now , getting nicer and colours look way more natural. Much closer to the original

My current solution was to turn off HDR and let the dynamic iris work for HDR content. But this method whilst works, doesn’t have the same level as HDR with good luminance, specular highlights look slightly dull. With the versatility of the fury, I can now control the light output for content and tweak the HDR brightness curve -2,-1,0,1,2 accordingly

Pretty impressed with this small little device , highly recommended.

I will proceed to recalibrate for HDR and SDR. This device stays in the chain !

Ps: by the way, is there a remote to change inputs? Assuming they share the same outputs ?
Good as it benefit you. Thanks bro Ronildoq and desray for sharing their views

Niffty device for TV as well.

The only remote that can control this device as I know now is Logitech harmony. Else can use your phone and go into browser to vertex IP to select setting on the fly. The switching is pretty fast too

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 15, 2020, 12:22
I will like to stress again in case bro Sevenz and many others who dun have a projector but already have a 4K HDR TV that supports DV/HDR/HDR10+/HLG wanted to spend on this gadget for the wrong reasons. For me as a projector user, I am seriously considering this Vertex 2 now that winwin81 is carrying it locally here.

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Desray, thanks for the thoughts. I am getting this device for my projector, but I think it might be useful for non-DV TVs. I'm going to try it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+, but not DV. I'm going to try to feed it DV source (from UHD Blu Ray, ATV4K & FireStick 4K) and get it to output HDR10+ :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 15, 2020, 12:33
Desray, thanks for the thoughts. I am getting this device for my projector, but I think it might be useful for non-DV TVs. I'm going to try it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+, but not DV. I'm going to try to feed it DV source (from UHD Blu Ray, ATV4K & FireStick 4K) and get it to output HDR10+ :)
Thank you tsammyc bro for supporting. Much appreciated

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Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 15, 2020, 13:22

The only remote that can control this device as I know now is Logitech harmony. Else can use your phone and go into browser to vertex IP to select setting on the fly. The switching is pretty fast too

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Can use iPad or phone to gain access to the web interface. Much faster since just checkboxes and no need to type any inputs.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 13:24
The algorithm for Dolby vision processing is superior from what I’m seeing, you should try to force it down that path. It’s even better with native dolby vision content. The dynamic tone mapping when used on dolby vision processing seems to be fantastic so far, nice improvements observed on the BenQ . Far better than HDR10 that wasn’t as good with the tone mapping

Using player led dolby vision processing on the source itself on Oppo 205, this takes some of the load off the BenQ PJ for tone mapping.

But we will still need to calibrate the screen and adjust, mainly, colours, contrast and brightness + HDR brightness, the HDR gamma curve used in the BenQ 5700.

I’m approaching the HDR calibration this weekend, using HDR brightness +1 curve on the BenQ , and tweaking with correct saturation sweeps for HDR using the spears and munsil disk and masciola patterns with content at 1000 nits. Saturation targets at 50% and 25%. In pushing for the highest possible specular highlights. Gonna be real challenging with the amount of light output from the pj. I believe laser Pj users will be loving this

What I’ve observed so far is richness in colour, the depth is improved, higher density. Not really over saturated, above all, it looks really natural and realistic. I think the mapping for red is fantastic, as the skin tones look really natural

I’ll bring out the Tekno3d files for test, from there will have an idea how good this is. Will share soon more pics on HDR. Stay tuned
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 13:25
Can use iPad or phone to gain access to the web interface. Much faster since just checkboxes and no need to type any inputs.


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Oh yea, haven’t thought of that. Can use iphone. Sometimes I use the iPhone to control Apple TV and Oppo 205 as well. So yea, good idea. Thanks
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 15, 2020, 13:25
Can use iPad or phone to gain access to the web interface. Much faster since just checkboxes and no need to type any inputs.


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Yup yup. There is drop down and button selections

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 14:11
Oh yea, the other thing is we can proceed to do whatever we want and save the config file, to download once we are done and upload again to the new device. As this is a loan unit, it will be helpful when I get the new set in, and upload my preferred settings easily without having to go through it all over again
Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 15, 2020, 14:42
winwinc81 - when shipment arriving?


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 15, 2020, 14:52
Desray, thanks for the thoughts. I am getting this device for my projector, but I think it might be useful for non-DV TVs. I'm going to try it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+, but not DV. I'm going to try to feed it DV source (from UHD Blu Ray, ATV4K & FireStick 4K) and get it to output HDR10+ :)

Sure thing.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 15, 2020, 14:58
I've been doing some research on the Vertex2 and came across a post which explains things below. Turns out the Vertex2 does enable Dolby Vision dynamic tone mapping on projectors!!

Originally posted by HDFury on AVS:

Hi Guys, It's quite easy, both Normal DV or LLDV, use DV string to encode and display decode it.

The idea here is to use Sony A1 LLDV string (that's a string in A1 EDID), because Sony A1 TV have nearly no processing available so all processing is done at source level, the result is a picture close to HDR. so by forcing a capable source (ATV4K, sony players mainly) to output LLDV for Sony A1, one can then deal with that signal just like if it was a HDR signal, so if you are sending that to a HDR capable display you can send custom HDR at the same time to force display in HDR mode and picture will nearly be as good as HDR10 with the advantage of the sources making frame by frame adjustment as it does for DV/LLDV content compared to normal HDR10.

Of course Sony A1 prolly adjust a few others things, so some additional settings might be required on the display or on the HDR metadata sent or both... This have yet to be determinate.

In all cases, once your source output LLDV for A1, then if you don't have A1 display, the only way to deal with that signal is to force HDR mode, another DV display won't be able to handle the signal properly because it was not encoded using that display DV string, but A1 DV string.

So what Skavan reported is just NORMAL. If he used his C9 DV string, then the signal would not be that much processed at source level and fully unwatchable as HDR on another display.

So, if you don't have Sony A1 and force a source into LLDV using Sony A1 EDID, then you have to force both display into HDR mode. so here, with SOURCES > TX/C9 > RX/EPSON, both RX and TX need to send Custom HDR to force both into HDR mode so both can render LLDV as HDR.

Just small misunderstanding about how DV works here.

Normal DV is DV SOURCE ENCODE for DISPLAY using DISPLAY DV STRING, only that DISPLAY CAN DECODE IT. + Stream travels in RGB container, so no operation possible on the signal when using a device in the middle without breaking DV fully.

LLDV is DV SOURCE ENCODE for DISPLAY using DISPLAY DV STRING, only that DISPLAY CAN DECODE IT. but stream travels normally and operation can be done using a device in the middle without breaking it. + If user have a TV with weak processing power such as A1, all processing is done at source level from capable source and results is HDR like stream travelling which can be rendered as HDR on all HDR capable display, yet a few others tweaking might be needed to be perfect because if you compare LLDV > A1 and HDR > A1, there very slight difference when you look closely the stream before the display is in LLDV or HDR mode.





As explained by the HDFury manufacturer, the Vertex2 is not doing the dynamic tone mapping. The player (UHD blu ray, ATV 4K, Firestick 4K) is doing the DV dynamic tone mapping. This is because when the player detects a Sony A1 OLED (spoofed by the HDFury) it knows that the A1 has poor DV processing capability and switches to LLDV mode, where the DV dynamic tone mapping is done by the player rather than the display device and put into a HDR10 container before being sent over to the display. Fantastic!

A few players have the ability to upconvert HDR10 & SDR into DV (Oppo 205, Apple TV4K and Sony UHD players) and then output it via LLDV to the Vertex2. Personally, I'm doubtful that upconverted DV in a HDR10 container looks better than a native HDR10 stream, but some people on the AVS forums think so.

My main watching is of Netflix, Prime Video (US) and Disney+ rather than UHD Blu Ray, so the Apple TV4K should be able to handle both DV streams and upconvert HDR10 and SDR into DV for the Vertex2. From what I read, the ATV4K is better than any other device in doing this because of a powerful processor.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 15, 2020, 15:03
winwinc81 - when shipment arriving?


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Should be sometime next week. I left with 2 sets only cos some fast leg/hand...

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 15, 2020, 15:09
Should be sometime next week. I left with 2 sets only cos some fast leg/hand...

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I will take one if there is leftover stock otherwise I’ll wait for the next shipment. No hurry. Take it up separately via PM. Let’s get back to the discussion.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 15, 2020, 15:17
I will take one if there is leftover stock otherwise I’ll wait for the next shipment. No hurry. Take it up separately via PM. Let’s get back to the discussion.


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Will have one for you. Back to discussion yes.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 15, 2020, 15:55
Thks on the additional info on Diva. I'm contemplating whether to get the Vertex 2 for some time now, not because of the LLDV profile 5 (custom) to trick non-DV display (a projector) to receive a DV image but because of its ability to autoswitch to the appropriate HDMI resolution, signal and frequency as I switch through various inputs.

Take note there are only 4 Inputs which is considered plenty for average users. I have a HTPC, Pioneer LX500, Panasonic UB-420 (does not support DV hence unable to take adv of the LLDV but comes with the prominent HDR Optimiser), Xbox X One & nvidia Shield TV (last 2 devices usually used for my Netflix streaming). I have been using HTPC with madVR for serious 4K HDR content and for the most part, the madVR DTM is working great and able to produce very good 4K HDR image with plenty of light output for my projector using laser as output. If I were to get the HDFury Vertex 2, I'm pretty sure it will serve me well in the Netflix streaming of 4K with DV content to get the best PQ. Because there is only 4 Inputs, I may need to run another HDMI cable to the HDMI 2 Output of my projector. An inconvenience, some may think...in my case I will probably have to omit the Panny UB-420 since there is no DV decoding).

The splitter/matrix mode that is able to copy the output EDID from the main display (TX0)will hell to resolve my DENON dual display problem when I switch between 2 4K display outputs (I'm using 4K Samsung 4K with HDR PC monitor as my secondary display for non critical viewing).

Whoever buy this, must know what you want to achieve out of this gadget... If you have an Oppo 4K bluray player and able to do Force DV and you do happen to be a firm believer of the unparelled 4K HDR PQ can only be produced by a physical medium, then this Vertex 2 or Diva will be a great addition to your repertoire of HT video equipment. This is meant for projector user who wants a better 4K HDR image because so far projector is unable to  reap the benefits of a dynamic meta data which results in better frame by frame and scene by scene images. For those already owned a JVC N5 or N7, I don't think there is a need for you to rush out and get this unless your JVC projector is giving u resolution and frequency issue when switching various sources. Buy for the right reason so that you will not be disappointed.

For existing projector users, the reason why you buy this is because most of us are not getting great 4K HDR image quality due to the projector as a low light source display. If your projector is unable to reproduce a certain lumens and the display technology like DLP is a limiting factor etc, this efficacy if this device will be limited somewhat.

I will like to stress again in case bro Sevenz and many others who dun have a projector but already have a 4K HDR TV that supports DV/HDR/HDR10+/HLG wanted to spend on this gadget for the wrong reasons. For me as a projector user, I am seriously considering this Vertex 2 now that winwin81 is carrying it locally here.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

Thanks for the GREAT info.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 16:05

As explained by the HDFury manufacturer, the Vertex2 is not doing the dynamic tone mapping. The player (UHD blu ray, ATV 4K, Firestick 4K) is doing the DV dynamic tone mapping. This is because when the player detects a Sony A1 OLED (spoofed by the HDFury) it knows that the A1 has poor DV processing capability and switches to LLDV mode, where the DV dynamic tone mapping is done by the player rather than the display device and put into a HDR10 container before being sent over to the display. Fantastic!

A few players have the ability to upconvert HDR10 & SDR into DV (Oppo 205, Apple TV4K and Sony UHD players) and then output it via LLDV to the Vertex2. Personally, I'm doubtful that upconverted DV in a HDR10 container looks better than a native HDR10 stream, but some people on the AVS forums think so.

My main watching is of Netflix, Prime Video (US) and Disney+ rather than UHD Blu Ray, so the Apple TV4K should be able to handle both DV streams and upconvert HDR10 and SDR into DV for the Vertex2. From what I read, the ATV4K is better than any other device in doing this because of a powerful processor.

Sammy , spot on

1. Apple TV 4k is fantastic, i love it, the best for netflix when paired with the PJ
2. The Oppo 205 allows for Player-Led dolby Vision processing, this allows for 12bit colour depth and Dynamic Tone Mapping. Its the BEST 4k player in the planet right now, from 2-3 years ago. Nothing beats the oppo 205 as far as i can see. Its just so good for so many things. and best its stable, and now i can benefit again with the oppo 205, what a gem 4k player
3. taking advantage of the processing algorithm in the dolby vision signal, it provides for fantastic tone mapping results that is not present in the current native HDR10 that uses static metadata. that is the difference. The signal going in now uses Dynamic metadata from Dolby Vision's processing that actually adjust pictures scene by scene, frame by frame. WE can also use the Frame Adapt HDR gamma curve from JVCs profile and implement this in the Vertex2. So there are also options for preferred HDR Curve . It is superior to HDR10 from what i have observed on the BenQ so far, it has that better colour density and depth, not oversaturated type

But ive still got loads to work on. looking forward to feedback from others who are using it as well.

 
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 17:01
Thanks for the GREAT info.


Sevenz, u will still see noticeable benefits on the OLED C7, when u use your Oppo 203 for player-led dolby vision processing in 12 bit colour depth.

Apart from HDR benefits, u can upscale SDR material to force on dolby vision 4k on the OLED to use REC2020 colours

There is already a default target in the LG OLED C7 that uses this. It’s called HDR effect in the pic mode. It upconverts SDR pics to give you that that HDR like effect on screen. Although you or some may prefer the old original rec 709 calibrated version

The important point to note with this HDR stuff is there is no one “reference” curve for HDR unlike SDR material.

You gotta play is its various content mastered in different luminance and decide which HDR gamma curve looks best. There are recommended curves that some are using on AVS that seem to be helpful.

On JVC PJ, some prefer to switch off HDR from HDR mode and use this customise gamma target and dynamic iris for the HDR effect.

I wouldn’t rule out possibility of benefits using this with your OLED. I have yet to try on my OLED, but it seems to me that dolby vision player led signal processing is very promising from what I have seen so far


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 15, 2020, 20:14
Sammy , spot on

1. Apple TV 4k is fantastic, i love it, the best for netflix when paired with the PJ
2. The Oppo 205 allows for Player-Led dolby Vision processing, this allows for 12bit colour depth and Dynamic Tone Mapping. Its the BEST 4k player in the planet right now, from 2-3 years ago. Nothing beats the oppo 205 as far as i can see. Its just so good for so many things. and best its stable, and now i can benefit again with the oppo 205, what a gem 4k player
3. taking advantage of the processing algorithm in the dolby vision signal, it provides for fantastic tone mapping results that is not present in the current native HDR10 that uses static metadata. that is the difference. The signal going in now uses Dynamic metadata from Dolby Vision's processing that actually adjust pictures scene by scene, frame by frame. WE can also use the Frame Adapt HDR gamma curve from JVCs profile and implement this in the Vertex2. So there are also options for preferred HDR Curve . It is superior to HDR10 from what i have observed on the BenQ so far, it has that better colour density and depth, not oversaturated type

But ive still got loads to work on. looking forward to feedback from others who are using it as well.


OT a bit.

I got 2 Hong Kong guys coming over to my HK aprtment to pick up stuff I was selling.  Both of them saw my Oppo 205 and had offered me HK$30-40K for it.  (HK$30K is SGD$5.5 now)

Please don't let go....my fellow Bros.

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 23:32
OT a bit.

I got 2 Hong Kong guys coming over to my HK aprtment to pick up stuff I was selling.  Both of them saw my Oppo 205 and had offered me HK$30-40K for it.  (HK$30K is SGD$5.5 now)

Please don't let go....my fellow Bros.

(Audio)

 :o :o :o :o $5k ?? Ridiculous! but honestly, its the best 4k player, u can use it for 7.1 with the Sabre DAC that can do Dynamic range of 140db, then music 2 channel sounds fantastic too, 4K disc playback is superb, USB supports MKV Object based audio DTSX and Atmos, now im seeing Player Led Dolby Vision Processing at 12 bit, even on SDR, Firmware is stable, what more can you ask for?? best part, smooth sailing like a smooth criminal........ no hiccups at all, plays whatever i throw at it.

Now this HD Fury this stuff, is just icing on the cake, absolutely brilliant with LLDV

In case anyone is still wondering what this HD Fury thing is all about, here is a link on this Vertex 2,

https://hdfury.com/product/4k-vertex2-18gbps/

contents on the web is self explanatory
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 15, 2020, 23:36
A pity oppo closed down its bd player product

It's a BIG tragedy in the HT audio scene  :'(
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2020, 23:48
A pity oppo closed down its bd player product

It's a BIG tragedy in the HT audio scene  :'(

yea man, i concur, what a pity.... anyway, life goes on..... new players will come into the market.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 16, 2020, 08:46
Actually I found that with DV discs I still prefer the Panasonic UB820 using HDR optimization to Oppo outputting one LLDV to the Vertex 2.

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 16, 2020, 09:15
Actually I found that with DV discs I still prefer the Panasonic UB820 using HDR optimization to Oppo outputting one LLDV to the Vertex 2.

Sadly I didn’t get the 820 but the entry level (420) which does not have DV.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 16, 2020, 11:01

Sevenz, u will still see noticeable benefits on the OLED C7, when u use your Oppo 203 for player-led dolby vision processing in 12 bit colour depth.

Apart from HDR benefits, u can upscale SDR material to force on dolby vision 4k on the OLED to use REC2020 colours

There is already a default target in the LG OLED C7 that uses this. It’s called HDR effect in the pic mode. It upconverts SDR pics to give you that that HDR like effect on screen. Although you or some may prefer the old original rec 709 calibrated version

The important point to note with this HDR stuff is there is no one “reference” curve for HDR unlike SDR material.

You gotta play is its various content mastered in different luminance and decide which HDR gamma curve looks best. There are recommended curves that some are using on AVS that seem to be helpful.

On JVC PJ, some prefer to switch off HDR from HDR mode and use this customise gamma target and dynamic iris for the HDR effect.

I wouldn’t rule out possibility of benefits using this with your OLED. I have yet to try on my OLED, but it seems to me that dolby vision player led signal processing is very promising from what I have seen so far


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks bro. No wonder this product is so highly rated.

I'll wait for your review first ha. Cos so far I'm quite happy with the calibrated results of the c7 on SDR and HDR. And the delta E achieved is super good.

the HDR effect mode on the OLED for SDR image is not my cup of tea. Didn't like it. I find it compresses the colours and makes it fake...

Will u be calibrating the picture again on your OLED and PJ using CP after adding HD Fury in the video chain? Looking fwd to see how much it can squeeze out B4 after

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 16, 2020, 11:37
Will u be calibrating the picture again on your OLED and PJ using CP after adding HD Fury in the video chain? Looking fwd to see how much it can squeeze out B4 after


Yes bro, I’ll be attempting tonight HDR for BenQ first. So far even before any calibration, I have noticed the colours look much more vibrant , has better density wider colours but doesn’t look over saturated. Like how u have mentioned, the HDR effect on LG OLED makes it look fake ? That’s the over saturation part. This one is somewhat different that it gives you that colour depth and the most important thing I like about this is how natural things look on screen, especially skin tones. This is something that I have never experienced with the original HDR on the BenQ . But this dolby vision thing is really something. No wonder it’s being charged at a premium cost .

Having observed both formats for sometime, I have noticed that dolby vision is so much more nicer than HDR10 . Much much nicer . Doesn’t feel too bright, no eye fatigue, yet colours are brilliant and specular highlights seem much more natural

Cant imagine what those guys are seeing with a laser projector. Pretty sure it’s impressive

I saw the laser PJ BenQ k990 , close to $15k plus. I think laser is still the way to go for HDR PJ. I won’t rule this out at some stage, hopefully prices come down for laser. But then, regardless laser or no laser, the HD fury stays in the chain. Beneficial


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 16, 2020, 12:22
Thanks bro. No wonder this product is so highly rated.

I'll wait for your review first ha. Cos so far I'm quite happy with the calibrated results of the c7 on SDR and HDR. And the delta E achieved is super good.

the HDR effect mode on the OLED for SDR image is not my cup of tea. Didn't like it. I find it compresses the colours and makes it fake...

Will u be calibrating the picture again on your OLED and PJ using CP after adding HD Fury in the video chain? Looking fwd to see how much it can squeeze out B4 after
Yes, for TV owners that has DV capability, I will advise to hold on first and wait for more reviews to drop first. You may only get “incremental” improvements. The LLDV profile is more beneficial for Projector users imo.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 16, 2020, 12:24

Yes bro, I’ll be attempting tonight HDR for BenQ first. So far even before any calibration, I have noticed the colours look much more vibrant , has better density wider colours but doesn’t look over saturated. Like how u have mentioned, the HDR effect on LG OLED makes it look fake ? That’s the over saturation part. This one is somewhat different that it gives you that colour depth and the most important thing I like about this is how natural things look on screen, especially skin tones. This is something that I have never experienced with the original HDR on the BenQ . But this dolby vision thing is really something. No wonder it’s being charged at a premium cost .

Having observed both formats for sometime, I have noticed that dolby vision is so much more nicer than HDR10 . Much much nicer . Doesn’t feel too bright, no eye fatigue, yet colours are brilliant and specular highlights seem much more natural

Cant imagine what those guys are seeing with a laser projector. Pretty sure it’s impressive

I saw the laser PJ BenQ k990 , close to $15k plus. I think laser is still the way to go for HDR PJ. I won’t rule this out at some stage, hopefully prices come down for laser. But then, regardless laser or no laser, the HD fury stays in the chain. Beneficial


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Without a shadow of doubt...laser IS the way to go for HDR. Period. Less drifting from colours over time and the much needed consistent light output is required for HDR to shine.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 16, 2020, 14:06
In case anyone wondering what I was seeing on the BenQ HDR, here are some pics

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200516/003186eda8da39d0bb73f60281731e22.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200516/9ea803bf22accfb17fc6705d94672ca8.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200516/3bf3835a0463375d2f5d94c7d41b5a17.jpg)

These were taken before HD fury in the chain previously , just normal HDR10 using BenQ 5700 tone mapping

I’ll try and compare and confirm again after the calibration


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 16, 2020, 14:10
Without a shadow of doubt...laser IS the way to go for HDR. Period. Less drifting from colours over time and the much needed consistent light output is required for HDR to shine.


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+1, I’ll wait Patiently see if we will have a better deal come 2021 for laser Pj, especially after covid19, hopefully we can see some nice deals.

After having Pj for sometime now, I can’t go back to OLED 65”, too small. Though the OLED has nice deep blacks and colours etc, but no matter how, size still matters and with the AT screen centre channel behind screen and Atmos front heights behind AT screen, the experience is pretty amazing and immersive. Very nice as the sound tracks the onscreen action from centre and front heights


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 16, 2020, 14:13

+1, I’ll wait Patiently see if we will have a better deal come 2021 for laser Pj, especially after covid19, hopefully we can see some nice deals.

After having Pj for sometime now, I can’t go back to OLED 65”, too small. Though the OLED has nice deep blacks and colours etc, but no matter how, size still matters and with the AT screen centre channel behind screen and Atmos front heights behind AT screen, the experience is pretty amazing and immersive. Very nice as the sound tracks the onscreen action from centre and front heights


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Welcome to the Projector club...Eversince I have projector...I have seldom spend more than 30 mins watching a TV set for the last 5 years. If I watch TV is because of News. Once you go “big”...there’s no way to turn back.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 16, 2020, 14:14

+1, I’ll wait Patiently see if we will have a better deal come 2021 for laser Pj, especially after covid19, hopefully we can see some nice deals.

After having Pj for sometime now, I can’t go back to OLED 65”, too small. Though the OLED has nice deep blacks and colours etc, but no matter how, size still matters and with the AT screen centre channel behind screen and Atmos front heights behind AT screen, the experience is pretty amazing and immersive. Very nice as the sound tracks the onscreen action from centre and front heights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Welcome to the Projector club...Eversince I have projector...I have seldom spend more than 30 mins watching a TV set for the last 5 years. If I watch TV is because of News. Once you go “big”...there’s no way to turn back.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: rayleh on May 16, 2020, 17:07
This is very true.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 16, 2020, 18:42
interesting, someone actually create a 3d printer print mount for Diva.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4095760

since they are of same size, someone with 3d printer can actually try it  :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 16, 2020, 19:20
interesting, someone actually create a 3d printer print mount for Diva.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4095760

since they are of same size, someone with 3d printer can actually try it  :)

Why don't you get a supplier to mold it and sell? I'm sure they will be buyer.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: rock123 on May 17, 2020, 00:50

https://www.hdfury.com/next-gen-comparison/
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 17, 2020, 14:02
Just in case anyone interested to know how to connect the HDFury (credit to AVS Forum member)

Method 1
-----------
Sources
↓↓↓
HDFury → OLED
HDFury → Projector
HDFury → AVP/AVR


Method 2
-----------
Sources
↓↓↓
AVP/AVR

HDFury → OLED
HDFury → Projector

Method 2 will allow you to output the AVP/AVR OSD to either display to screen
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 17, 2020, 18:20
Just in case anyone interested to know how to connect the HDFury (credit to AVS Forum member)

Method 1
-----------
Sources
↓↓↓
HDFury → OLED
HDFury → Projector
HDFury → AVP/AVR


Method 2
-----------
Sources
↓↓↓
AVP/AVR

HDFury → OLED
HDFury → Projector

Method 2 will allow you to output the AVP/AVR OSD to either display to screen

Method 2 is the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 17, 2020, 18:49
Just so i know, wont the AVR potentially change the signal even on passthrough?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 17, 2020, 18:53
Just so i know, wont the AVR potentially change the signal even on passthrough?

This is something that we will need to test it out...For those going for the 2nd method, pls ensure that your AVR is set to pass-through.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 17, 2020, 20:56
Wahhhj I have finished, very good using this method, I have just tested quickly using the familiar Spears UHD disc, I can see very nice improvement using Oppo205’a dolby vision time mapping, even on SDR material! The gold colour looks rich and solid

Setting on the Oppo to player-led dolby vision, then calibrating using the REC709 colour space at 75% saturation and 75% intensity to its targets

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/d566e747ff29200b957a7746fe537fd3.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/9aca28d89587277c5b3c540c8ed9b174.jpg)

Grayscale tracking on dolby vision using HDR projector gamma target, I proceed to calibrate to 60% grayscale, beyond that is meaningless as tone mapping has already taken over, as can be seen from 45% on

Next gonna check out Tekno3d material

Wow, unwatchable BenQ HDR suddenly looks really promising !!

BenQ 5700 + Oppo205 + vertex2 = dolby vision the answer to HDR


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 17, 2020, 21:00
The Mrs so happen to pass by and she saw the flowers clip and she went like “WOW” followed by butterflies scene...

Next I need to check our animation as well. Watching “onward” 4k HDR tonight, will try and observe see how it goes

So far so good, very happy with what I’m seeing from the BenQ HDR now...

Surprisingly I’ve set Color to 0, and use Color enhancement to 8. I’ll share all the settings and how to set this up once this is done


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 17, 2020, 23:26
Wahhhj I have finished, very good using this method, I have just tested quickly using the familiar Spears UHD disc, I can see very nice improvement using Oppo205’a dolby vision time mapping, even on SDR material! The gold colour looks rich and solid

Setting on the Oppo to player-led dolby vision, then calibrating using the REC709 colour space at 75% saturation and 75% intensity to its targets

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/d566e747ff29200b957a7746fe537fd3.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/9aca28d89587277c5b3c540c8ed9b174.jpg)

Grayscale tracking on dolby vision using HDR projector gamma target, I proceed to calibrate to 60% grayscale, beyond that is meaningless as tone mapping has already taken over, as can be seen from 45% on

Next gonna check out Tekno3d material

Wow, unwatchable BenQ HDR suddenly looks really promising !!

BenQ 5700 + Oppo205 + vertex2 = dolby vision the answer to HDR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Power!!!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 17, 2020, 23:28
This is something that we will need to test it out...For those going for the 2nd method, pls ensure that your AVR is set to pass-through.
I'll prefer method 2 also.. not seeing the OSD from the AVP is like missing something... Not used to.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 17, 2020, 23:32
OMG, jaw dropping stuff, Dolby Vision tone mapping is the way !!

If u have an Oppo 203 or 205, u need to use this with the vertex 2 for tone mapping player led, absolutely stunning on the BenQ 5700! Not even laser PJ , just simple DLP....

Check out the pics, saliva drool, inexpensive solution to HDR , using dolby vision, Dolby rulezzzzzzz , no fight HDR10 format

Reference stuff... on HDR 135” screen , amazing

Very very happy now with the BenQ 5700 using the Oppo 205 combo vertex 2

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/dfef53ad0fb09940dbb33e4160d5200b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/5fc8fcff2f1077f939dfcf9bb31ed861.jpg)

I haven’t seen so much details on the gauntlet before, fuuu!! Check out the dynamic range on the infinity stone

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/157392387166e5e5fa2fe9e16ab8ebfa.jpg)

Check out the scales on the bloody beast!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/7c934658ea1c1004eac31bcd31c1e300.jpg)

Check out the fire in the background and that armour from Thanos !!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/daba7a6e36576ee1c1e486c8562eec44.jpg)

Omg those curly beard!!

REFERENCE STUFF!


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 17, 2020, 23:38
The above was taken using the Tekno3d files tone mapped at source. I was having helluva problem previously with the BenQ 5700 tone mapping. I think the original tone mapping from the BenQ is not as good. Switch over to Oppo 205 using the source player to do tone mapping with Dolby’s algorithm, it’s a game changer.... totally 360 degree change.... it’s now not only watchable but it’s fantastic, brilliant is the word to use...

Very natural and the feel is fantastic, Super immersive with the AT screen, speakers tucked behind, line source woofers and the seatons ...

Amazing....

I’m sure those on laser PJ will benefit big time , even on the DLP pj I’m seeing specular highlights without losing much details or clipping, so natural ...

The vertex2 is a winner here. Dolby Vision is the future ...


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 17, 2020, 23:40
Power!!!

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Bro, one word, “HOLIAO”.... solves all the HDR problem I had with the BenQ in the past , I can inject the metadata and calibrate the system using the chromapure disc

Very nice, thanks man for introducing this to us.... I think many will enjoy this toy


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 17, 2020, 23:59

Bro, one word, “HOLIAO”.... solves all the HDR problem I had with the BenQ in the past , I can inject the metadata and calibrate the system using the chromapure disc

Very nice, thanks man for introducing this to us.... I think many will enjoy this toy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 00:08
Wah, damn nice dynamic range on dolby vision led tone mapping , here are more captain marvel and guardians of galaxy

I’m watching this in person, stunning !! U the wont believe it’s from a BenQ 5700, u will probably think it’s a $20k pj

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/02683cfdd2ea0649daeefa7dc449f371.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/a65540119bfc85148c6978b7b32c9df5.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/9a656814197d136d752db563a5be7979.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/0113811f6c5e9c0910621a3d63caa38e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/c55420ef78b9541231a0889e2723109b.jpg)

Woo hoo.... very nice HDR on the big screen ....



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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 00:16
No eye fatigue , very very natural looking, very realistic, not over saturated, peak luminance happening where it should.... not over bright like the OLED I have, just nice

But black levels clipping at 5 and 10% of grayscale, but I’m ok with that. The pictures pops and it looks really nice in person

Wow, what a solid device, so many things I can do to adjust
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 08:51
No eye fatigue , very very natural looking, very realistic, not over saturated, peak luminance happening where it should.... not over bright like the OLED I have, just nice

But black levels clipping at 5 and 10% of grayscale, but I’m ok with that. The pictures pops and it looks really nice in person

Wow, what a solid device, so many things I can do to adjust
Black clipping at below 10% is considered acceptable for any grayscale ramp even at SDR level.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 18, 2020, 09:25

Bro, one word, “HOLIAO”.... solves all the HDR problem I had with the BenQ in the past , I can inject the metadata and calibrate the system using the chromapure disc

Very nice, thanks man for introducing this to us.... I think many will enjoy this toy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Looks like this is a perfect match for pj and esp your benQ.

Nice!

How close does it bring your pj to your OLED HDR pq ha...

No wonder HD Fury so highly rated
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 09:58
Looks like this is a perfect match for pj and esp your benQ.

Nice!

How close does it bring your pj to your OLED HDR pq ha...

No wonder HD Fury so highly rated

Let's not kid ourselves here...for DLP projector, no matter what hardware or software sorceries up our sleeves, there is no way we can get good black levels which translate to higher perceived Contrast Ratio (CR) here. In short, we cannot compare DLP image to an OLED image. But with HDFury "tricking" the projector to get good color rendition to take full advantage of a Wider Color Gamut (WCG) to achieve that HDR-level of color vividness, the DLP panel will score very well in this regard. It will suffer in lower APL and night scene. One of the best things about HDR is the whitest white and blackest black but it can only be achieved with a panel that can turn on and off an individual pixel in the absence of light - i.e. OLED panel to achieve higher CR. So far, only JVC DiLA in the projector realm which is a hybrid SXRD/LCD panel can achieve that.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 10:04
Looks like this is a perfect match for pj and esp your benQ.

Nice!

How close does it bring your pj to your OLED HDR pq ha...

No wonder HD Fury so highly rated

Bro, it’s very good. I’m very satisfied with the HDR quality I’m seeing now.  the other stuff I have observed

1. With dolby vision processing, I’m seeing a smoother picture quality. Less grainy. Highly visible on native HDR10 content

2. It u remember on the OLED, when we fed HDR10 signal, the specular highlights were too bright? And with dolby vision we don’t see that . This is how we can use this HD fury. I don’t get eye pain, with too bright specular highlights. This allows me to enjoy the movie for longer periods.

3. The other benefit I noticed, is we can control the MaxCLL for peak luminance based on the capabilities of the equipment, in my case the BenQ HDR PJ is DLP lamp based, instead of laser light source. So I can limit this luminance portion to 600nits instead of 1000nits so the BenQ wil benefit without clipping on brighter scenes. But assuming everything is at default at MaxCLL 1000 nits, the dynamic tone mapping of dolby vision’s algorithm is still superior to anything I’ve seen so far, be it HDR10, HLG or HDR10+.

Not bad, I’ll try and share how we can do this, and the settings to use, this should help those who own a BenQ 5700 PJ, oppo 203/205 and vertex2

Very good bro , the main benefits is to dupe the display into thinking a dolby vision is incoming and it will then apply dolby vision picture mode for your OLED.

One can also calibrate their OLED screen Using the dolby vision 2.0 calibration method. This has been reported to be very effective by many , for HDR calibration. It disables tone mapping feature when calibrating the screen, so u can calibrate grayscale, gamma to 2.6 and colours normally as you would SDR. Then upload a file into your tv vide USB port. Then u have a perfectly calibrated HDR screen on the OLED. I’m not sure C7 supports this. But C9 does. I’m a bit off with OLED now, it’s actually a white elephant in the room and I’m more into projector . But that’s the possibility for u.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 10:23
Black clipping at below 10% is considered acceptable for any grayscale ramp even at SDR level.


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Yea, it’s clipping below 10%, limitation on the hardware itself. The blackest of Black not as black on the BenQ PJ. Can be seen clearly with the test patterns and measurements . But for the price, it is fantastic, and I can get a very nice pop on on image with the sacrifice there below 10% black levels. Image clarity is good as well, sharp and for sports and 3D it’s very good too

Enter the HD Fury, I’m now seeing fantastic HDR pictures quality, I can also use the “ frame adapt HDR” picture processing. All these at a fraction of the cost or 1/3 of the JVC N7

Above all, the most important is to calibrate the screen correctly. I’m witnessing first hand many high end projectors, if not calibrated will still not be able to give you the desired level, especially for HDR. SDR is ok, but HDR is not so easy, it’s such a tricky situation

Overall I’m now reporting that if anyone who owns a BenQ 5700 + Oppo , there is clear benefits with the HD fury vertex2. It will bring your HDR experience to the next level. (Provided it’s being calibrated correctly)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 10:25
Bro, it’s very good. I’m very satisfied with the HDR quality I’m seeing now.  the other stuff I have observed

1. With dolby vision processing, I’m seeing a smoother picture quality. Less grainy. Highly visible on native HDR10 content

2. It u remember on the OLED, when we fed HDR10 signal, the specular highlights were too bright? And with dolby vision we don’t see that . This is how we can use this HD fury. I don’t get eye pain, with too bright specular highlights. This allows me to enjoy the movie for longer periods.

3. The other benefit I noticed, is we can control the MaxCLL for peak luminance based on the capabilities of the equipment, in my case the BenQ HDR PJ is DLP lamp based, instead of laser light source. So I can limit this luminance portion to 600nits instead of 1000nits so the BenQ wil benefit without clipping on brighter scenes. But assuming everything is at default at MaxCLL 1000 nits, the dynamic tone mapping of dolby vision’s algorithm is still superior to anything I’ve seen so far, be it HDR10, HLG or HDR10+.

Not bad, I’ll try and share how we can do this, and the settings to use, this should help those who own a BenQ 5700 PJ, oppo 203/205 and vertex2

Very good bro , the main benefits is to dupe the display into thinking a dolby vision is incoming and it will then apply dolby vision picture mode for your OLED.

One can also calibrate their OLED screen Using the dolby vision 2.0 calibration method. This has been reported to be very effective by many , for HDR calibration. It disables tone mapping feature when calibrating the screen, so u can calibrate grayscale, gamma to 2.6 and colours normally as you would SDR. Then upload a file into your tv vide USB port. Then u have a perfectly calibrated HDR screen on the OLED. I’m not sure C7 supports this. But C9 does. I’m a bit off with OLED now, it’s actually a white elephant in the room and I’m more into projector . But that’s the possibility for u.

Bro, since you are more into Projector these days, you should really consider JVC N series for your next upgrade. You will love it. TV watching will soon be a thing of the past. :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 10:26
Yea, it’s clipping below 10%, limitation on the hardware itself. The blackest of Black not as black on the BenQ PJ. Can be seen clearly with the test patterns and measurements . But for the price, it is fantastic, and I can get a very nice pop on on image with the sacrifice there below 10% black levels. Image clarity is good as well, sharp and for sports and 3D it’s very good too

Enter the HD Fury, I’m now seeing fantastic HDR pictures quality, I can also use the “ frame adapt HDR” picture processing. All these at a fraction of the cost or 1/3 of the JVC N7

Above all, the most important is to calibrate the screen correctly. I’m witnessing first hand many high end projectors, if not calibrated will still not be able to give you the desired level, especially for HDR. SDR is ok, but HDR is not so easy, it’s such a tricky situation

Overall I’m now reporting that if anyone who owns a BenQ 5700 + Oppo , there is clear benefits with the HD fury vertex2. It will bring your HDR experience to the next level. (Provided it’s being calibrated correctly)

Amen to that!!!
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 10:32
Amen to that!!!

Big difference bro, out of the box HDR for BenQ ..... totally CMI, if I’m being honest here . I had many attempts and tried calibrating it as well but to no avail. This new approach I’m using now, with the ability of the HD fury to inject the metadata for dolby vision, I can calibrate the screen to the REC709 container. This is providing very accurate colours, grayscale and good specular highlights from what I’m seeing. It’s a game changer for me for HDR, for the price? Totally worth it man...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 10:44
Big difference bro, out of the box HDR for BenQ ..... totally CMI, if I’m being honest here . I had many attempts and tried calibrating it as well but to no avail. This new approach I’m using now, with the ability of the HD fury to inject the metadata for dolby vision, I can calibrate the screen to the REC709 container. This is providing very accurate colours, grayscale and good specular highlights from what I’m seeing. It’s a game changer for me for HDR, for the price? Totally worth it man...

Haha...I can feel the agony of unable to get the calibration the way you want it. It is NOT easy when the limitation is on the projector CMS (Color Management System)...You need a robust and full-fledged CMS to properly calibrate a projector. This is the reason why a high-end projector is so vastly different from an entry/mid-range projector. Just like audio calibration, it is 3 dimensional...same goes for video calibration...if the CMS is only able to adjust RGBCMY but not the HSL (Hue, Saturation and Lightness - which I called the 3rd dimension of color calibration), you will not get the reddest red or blackest black since it will deviate from the CIE chart by a large amount...the absence of all these important features in a Projector will limit how much you can do...that is why there are customers who invested in an outboard Video Processors in the likes of Lumagen and DVDO equipped with a better CMS to maximized the PQ of their projector.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 10:58
Haha...I can feel the agony of unable to get the calibration the way you want it. It is NOT easy when the limitation is on the projector CMS (Color Management System)...You need a robust and full-fledged CMS to properly calibrate a projector. This is the reason why a high-end projector is so vastly different from an entry/mid-range projector. Just like audio calibration, it is 3 dimensional...same goes for video calibration...if the CMS is only able to adjust RGBCMY but not the HSL (Hue, Saturation and Lightness - which I called the 3rd dimension of color calibration), you will not get the reddest red or blackest black since it will deviate from the CIE chart by a large amount...the absence of all these important features in a Projector will limit how much you can do...that is why there are customers who invested in an outboard Video Processors in the likes of Lumagen and DVDO equipped with a better CMS to maximized the PQ of their projector.

+1 well said. I think now we don’t even need a Lumagen. Just the HD fury to do the job. Settings took around 1hr to understand, thanks to doggie’s sharing. Calibration took me 2 hrs to complete, Cos I’m slightly more familiar with chromapure now. Going back and forth. It can be better, but I settled for it just to have a taste of the look. Turns out it works for the BenQ 5700, very nicely. Not bad. U will enjoy this on your Sony for sure
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 11:03
+1 well said. I think now we don’t even need a Lumagen. Just the HD fury to do the job. Settings took around 1hr to understand, thanks to doggie’s sharing. Calibration took me 2 hrs to complete, Cos I’m slightly more familiar with chromapure now. Going back and forth. It can be better, but I settled for it just to have a taste of the look. Turns out it works for the BenQ 5700, very nicely. Not bad. U will enjoy this on your Sony for sure
Haha. I will definitely put it into pace when I get it later this week or early next week from winwinc81.

Welcome to projector calibration.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 11:07
Bro, since you are more into Projector these days, you should really consider JVC N series for your next upgrade. You will love it. TV watching will soon be a thing of the past. :)

Honestly I initially wanted to get one, many recommended. But after witnessing the saga u had, it put me off at that time. So i scrapped the idea for the N7. Never mind if cannot achieve the blackest of black, I’m more than happy. Especially with the CS from BenQ and Alfie . No problem, I still get very good quality. It’s not the best, but it’s very good for my standards

I’ll need to invite you one day when all these covid thing is over. Then we can share and exchange more information with HT stuff . And probably check out your Sony as well when you host
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 11:21
Honestly I initially wanted to get one, many recommended. But after witnessing the saga u had, it put me off at that time. So i scrapped the idea for the N7. Never mind if cannot achieve the blackest of black, I’m more than happy. Especially with the CS from BenQ and Alfie . No problem, I still get very good quality. It’s not the best, but it’s very good for my standards

I’ll need to invite you one day when all these covid thing is over. Then we can share and exchange more information with HT stuff . And probably check out your Sony as well when you host
Sure thing...until the dust settles. :P


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 11:40
The level of detail I’m getting is amazing, nothing short of spectacular

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200518/6c6077b43f4e5cff718f298c91297984.jpg)

This is just from camera. The staff Corvus glaive is holding, that rod stuff, specular highlights is solid. And at the same time able to preserve a lot of the shadow details. So many things I can see with nice details

The fire, scrap metals, infinity stones... the face from ebony maw below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200518/0460674dc41c1e7c08f5b1225a17aac6.jpg)

He is wearing some sort of ring that glows also, and on his neck too, can see clearly these specular highlights

Amazing, jaw dropping stuff

All this on the 135” screen, damn immersive


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 18, 2020, 12:26
Makes me want a projector so much!!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 18, 2020, 12:28
Makes me want a projector so much!!

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You used to have one right?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 18, 2020, 12:39
You used to have one right?
Yup used to have a panny and then sold it away cos it's only 1080p.

Bought an UST but compromises the Center speaker and hence sold away as well.

So am lurking and looking around to find one that can go a long way... Read a few thread on your sony, compared a few like Optoma UHZ65 and bro Ronlidoq rec  BenQ laser... also says laser is the way to go.. seeing how the BenQ perform with the vertex really makes me drool a lot... I mean A LOT.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 12:41
Makes me want a projector so much!!

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Bro, it’s very nice. No turning back. If u ever take this path, definitely make sure to have the center speakers behind AT screen with Atmos front heights behind AT screen. Well worth the effort.(Coming from an OLED c7 65” user)

Can’t wait for my original unit, then I can return this loan set to u, and hook it up for Apple TV 4K as well.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 18, 2020, 12:42
Yup used to have a panny and then sold it away cos it's only 1080p.

Bought an UST but compromises the Center speaker and hence sold away as well.

So am lurking and looking around to find one that can go a long way... Read a few thread on your sony, compared a few like Optoma UHZ65 and bro Ronlidoq rec  BenQ laser... also says laser is the way to go.. seeing how the BenQ perform with the vertex really makes me drool a lot... I mean A LOT.

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Yea the laser not too bad, model LK990 from BenQ . But >$10k now... hopefully we will see more laser Pj


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on May 18, 2020, 22:14
On the queue to try winwin demo Vertex2 as well. Using vertex1 now but want to try the Vertex2 for the DV hack. Gonna be using it with the Sony VW260ES (4K, HDR) Pj and LG OLED ( old 1080 non HDR).
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 01:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittN2L593LY&feature=youtu.be

another great vid to share :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 19, 2020, 09:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittN2L593LY&feature=youtu.be

another great vid to share :)


Haha, the fella in the video says” overall I’m pretty damn impressed”

Same here, damn impressed with this stuff. It’s like why weren’t we introduced to this earlier ? But it’s better late than never. He hasn’t tested PJ, he is gonna be in for a rude shock

Having said that, this device is not just plug and play. Once in Dolby vision mode, one would still need to calibrate the display . A lot of the default settings are way off and not optimised causing inaccurate colours and grayscale. In fact calibrating the screen has far more benefits than just adding dolby vision processing

To bring out the best, one would need to use this, have a source player that does dolby vision dynamic tone mapping, calibrate the screen with dolby vision metadata injected, then you will realise the full potential for HDR on PJ

This is the way forward now for HDR for PJ. Until this, I wasn’t convinced HDR is a PJ thing, but now I am

Well done HD Fury!
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 19, 2020, 12:32
It was brought up but someone just plainly dismissed it.

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 12:43
It was brought up but someone just plainly dismissed it.

(Audio)

bro you using what prj may i know?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 19, 2020, 13:14
I am using the Sony VPL-VW760ES.

(Audio)
Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 19, 2020, 14:00

Haha, the fella in the video says” overall I’m pretty damn impressed”

Same here, damn impressed with this stuff. It’s like why weren’t we introduced to this earlier ? But it’s better late than never. He hasn’t tested PJ, he is gonna be in for a rude shock

Having said that, this device is not just plug and play. Once in Dolby vision mode, one would still need to calibrate the display . A lot of the default settings are way off and not optimised causing inaccurate colours and grayscale. In fact calibrating the screen has far more benefits than just adding dolby vision processing

To bring out the best, one would need to use this, have a source player that does dolby vision dynamic tone mapping, calibrate the screen with dolby vision metadata injected, then you will realise the full potential for HDR on PJ

This is the way forward now for HDR for PJ. Until this, I wasn’t convinced HDR is a PJ thing, but now I am

Well done HD Fury!
Haha. I think HD fury must confer you the title of their brand ambassador for endorsing their product here in Singapore. Well done!


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 19, 2020, 15:26
Yes it’s so good, love it. You know how I was having so much difficulty, playing content mastered in a much higher nits and the PJ display is just not as capable. I then encounter white clipping, colours clipping, all sorts of issues when it comes to HDR. Sometimes image is like washed out !

Enter the fury and I can now control the MaxCLL and MaxFALL levels before it gets pushed to the display. This enables the Pj to display an accurate Image without clipping white levels, colours etc by mapping content based on the PJ’s capabilities,  And the results from that is a superb image that matches what each display is capable of. This customisation together with applying LLDV dynamic  tone mapping is brilliant
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 19, 2020, 15:58
I actually had a good time with calibration, with my 6 year old son. He was my second pair of eyes. As I approach the calibration, we have this grayscale that we adjust and he will go “ too much green”, oh it’s too much red. And then we adjust to and forth.

After I finish the calibration, I used the spears and munsil disk for evaluation. And the boy tells me, too much white, cant see the horse 149, cant see the trees behind the snow( signs of white clipping) . I didn’t even notice there is a 149 number on the horse all these while! Lol.  Later we reach the peacock and parrot scene and he goes too much colour. We need to bring down overall colour. I adjusted and he said, This is better!

Wow to my surprise, they have actually been watching material on the calibrated screen for some time. I’m amazed he can tell me the colours look over saturated and white is clipping. He knows what type of colours look right on the screen

Unbelievable from a 6 year old boy. It was a real fun father son bonding time. I enjoyed it !
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 16:03
wa wa wa.... 1st 2 batch of guys lucky.... launch price. coming price will be the same as web liao. with local warranty la of course. anyway its reaching this thursday. fastest tomorrow maybe
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 19, 2020, 18:01
Am I in 1st or 2nd ....or no batch??

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 19, 2020, 19:56
Just received my new vertex 2! Woo hoo!! Really fast and efficient service from ovation United ! Thank you WinWin!!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/375ff10f9ccc367d7f6b508d0971e491.jpg)

A few more tweaks and comparison and I’m done. Almost there. I’ll share my settings , this should benefit the BenQ 5700 user using Oppo 203 or Oppo 205




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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 19:57
Am I in 1st or 2nd ....or no batch??

(Audio)
Can do 2nd. In afraid 3rd onward no launch price. Thank you for support

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 19:58
Just received my new vertex 2! Woo hoo!! Really fast and efficient service from ovation United ! Thank you WinWin!!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200519/375ff10f9ccc367d7f6b508d0971e491.jpg)

A few more tweaks and comparison and I’m done. Almost there. I’ll share my settings , this should benefit the BenQ 5700 user using Oppo 203 or Oppo 205




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Thanks for making the effort to come collect from my doorstep lol

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 19, 2020, 20:05
Lol, covid cannot prevent, luckily have mask , chop chop collect chiao..

Too bad we can’t chat further


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 20:58
To those who collected earlier too, have fun!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 19, 2020, 21:32
To those who collected earlier too, have fun!

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Thks winwinc81 for delivering the Vertex 2 to my doorstep. Excellent service I must say.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 19, 2020, 21:34
I actually had a good time with calibration, with my 6 year old son. He was my second pair of eyes. As I approach the calibration, we have this grayscale that we adjust and he will go “ too much green”, oh it’s too much red. And then we adjust to and forth.

After I finish the calibration, I used the spears and munsil disk for evaluation. And the boy tells me, too much white, cant see the horse 149, cant see the trees behind the snow( signs of white clipping) . I didn’t even notice there is a 149 number on the horse all these while! Lol.  Later we reach the peacock and parrot scene and he goes too much colour. We need to bring down overall colour. I adjusted and he said, This is better!

Wow to my surprise, they have actually been watching material on the calibrated screen for some time. I’m amazed he can tell me the colours look over saturated and white is clipping. He knows what type of colours look right on the screen

Unbelievable from a 6 year old boy. It was a real fun father son bonding time. I enjoyed it !
Talk about father and son bonding. Well done bro Roni.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 21:36
Thks winwinc81 for delivering the Vertex 2 to my doorstep. Excellent service I must say.


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No worries. I was delivering food to my grandparents at that area after they all collected. Pls share your findings. Interested to know how it performs on the laser

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 19, 2020, 21:36
Yes it’s so good, love it. You know how I was having so much difficulty, playing content mastered in a much higher nits and the PJ display is just not as capable. I then encounter white clipping, colours clipping, all sorts of issues when it comes to HDR. Sometimes image is like washed out !

Enter the fury and I can now control the MaxCLL and MaxFALL levels before it gets pushed to the display. This enables the Pj to display an accurate Image without clipping white levels, colours etc by mapping content based on the PJ’s capabilities,  And the results from that is a superb image that matches what each display is capable of. This customisation together with applying LLDV dynamic  tone mapping is brilliant
Bro, there are so many raving quotes from you in this thread which can be used for HD Fury’s customer reviews in their official page as a form of validation.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 19, 2020, 21:39
No worries. I was delivering food to my grandparents at that area after they all collected. Pls share your findings. Interested to know how it performs on the laser

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Will do. Luckily when u came, I just reached home about 5mins ago.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 21:49
Will do. Luckily when u came, I just reached home about 5mins ago.


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Ya man! I'm lucky! Else my grands may have to wait. Lol

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 19, 2020, 23:06
Picked up my Vertex2 from Win at 730pm. Its replacing a HDMI 2.0 switch/audio extractor, which is almost the same thing (without the cool DV spoofing capabilities), so it was quite straightforward to pull the cables out of the old switch and plug them into exactly the same places on the Vertex2. Plugged in the Ethernet connection and Vertex2 nicely told me its ip address. That oled on the top of the Vertex2 is quite useful. I entered the ip address into the browser on my MacBook Pro and the HDFury interface popped up. It was a simple matter to enter the configuration from doggie's post. However, instead of Automix in the EDID tab, I used Custom and set my input to spoof the Sony A1 TV. Not sure if Automix does that but this made sense to me. My BenQ W2700 is usually driven by a Firestick 4K and a Panasonic 820. The whole process of getting it unboxed to working took only about 30 minutes. Its quite simple if you know your way around internet devices.

Am happy to report that the Vertex2 works great with the Firestick 4K, converting DV content into LLDV and effectively sending Dolby tone mapped HDR content to the W2700. Tested it on the Firestick 4K, using Dolby Vision from Netflix, Apple TV app, Disney+ and Movies Anywhere. All of the apps work flawlessly and you can use the DV tab on the HDFury interface to see that LLDV is on when DV content is playing and off when HD or plain HDR is playing. As far as I can see, everything looks just like before, but the DV content is a little better, especially on the Mandalorian (Disney+). I didn't do an A/B comparison but should be quite easy to do over the next few days.

I haven't yet tried upconversion of HDR10 or HD to Dolby Vision. I have the Panny 820, with can output LLDV, but will not upconvert HDR10. For that you need either the Oppo or Sony UHD players. However, I also have the ATV 4K, which supposedly does the best job upconverting everything to LLDV and I will be trying that later to try to see these effects from Apple's Dolby upconversion algorithm that Roni raves about. At some point, I will be trying it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+ but no Dolby Vision. For the price of the Vertex2, I can effectively add Dolby Vision to my Panny.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 19, 2020, 23:11
Picked up my Vertex2 from Win at 730pm. Its replacing a HDMI 2.0 switch/audio extractor, which is almost the same thing (without the cool DV spoofing capabilities), so it was quite straightforward to pull the cables out of the old switch and plug them into exactly the same places on the Vertex2. Plugged in the Ethernet connection and Vertex2 nicely told me its ip address. That oled on the top of the Vertex2 is quite useful. I entered the ip address into the browser on my MacBook Pro and the HDFury interface popped up. It was a simple matter to enter the configuration from doggie's post. However, instead of Automix in the EDID tab, I used Custom and set my input to spoof the Sony A1 TV. Not sure if Automix does that but this made sense to me. My BenQ W2700 is usually driven by a Firestick 4K and a Panasonic 820. The whole process of getting it unboxed to working took only about 30 minutes. Its quite simple if you know your way around internet devices.

Am happy to report that the Vertex2 works great with the Firestick 4K, converting DV content into LLDV and effectively sending Dolby tone mapped HDR content to the W2700. Tested it on the Firestick 4K, using Dolby Vision from Netflix, Apple TV app, Disney+ and Movies Anywhere. All of the apps work flawlessly and you can use the DV tab on the HDFury interface to see that LLDV is on when DV content is playing and off when HD or plain HDR is playing. As far as I can see, everything looks just like before, but the DV content is a little better, especially on the Mandalorian (Disney+). I didn't do an A/B comparison but should be quite easy to do over the next few days.

I haven't yet tried upconversion of HDR10 or HD to Dolby Vision. I have the Panny 820, with can output LLDV, but will not upconvert HDR10. For that you need either the Oppo or Sony UHD players. However, I also have the ATV 4K, which supposedly does the best job upconverting everything to LLDV and I will be trying that later to try to see these effects from Apple's Dolby upconversion algorithm that Roni raves about. At some point, I will be trying it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+ but no Dolby Vision. For the price of the Vertex2, I can effectively add Dolby Vision to my Panny.
Great sharing of your setup...

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 19, 2020, 23:38
Picked up my Vertex2 from Win at 730pm. Its replacing a HDMI 2.0 switch/audio extractor, which is almost the same thing (without the cool DV spoofing capabilities), so it was quite straightforward to pull the cables out of the old switch and plug them into exactly the same places on the Vertex2. Plugged in the Ethernet connection and Vertex2 nicely told me its ip address. That oled on the top of the Vertex2 is quite useful. I entered the ip address into the browser on my MacBook Pro and the HDFury interface popped up. It was a simple matter to enter the configuration from doggie's post. However, instead of Automix in the EDID tab, I used Custom and set my input to spoof the Sony A1 TV. Not sure if Automix does that but this made sense to me. My BenQ W2700 is usually driven by a Firestick 4K and a Panasonic 820. The whole process of getting it unboxed to working took only about 30 minutes. Its quite simple if you know your way around internet devices.

Am happy to report that the Vertex2 works great with the Firestick 4K, converting DV content into LLDV and effectively sending Dolby tone mapped HDR content to the W2700. Tested it on the Firestick 4K, using Dolby Vision from Netflix, Apple TV app, Disney+ and Movies Anywhere. All of the apps work flawlessly and you can use the DV tab on the HDFury interface to see that LLDV is on when DV content is playing and off when HD or plain HDR is playing. As far as I can see, everything looks just like before, but the DV content is a little better, especially on the Mandalorian (Disney+). I didn't do an A/B comparison but should be quite easy to do over the next few days.

I haven't yet tried upconversion of HDR10 or HD to Dolby Vision. I have the Panny 820, with can output LLDV, but will not upconvert HDR10. For that you need either the Oppo or Sony UHD players. However, I also have the ATV 4K, which supposedly does the best job upconverting everything to LLDV and I will be trying that later to try to see these effects from Apple's Dolby upconversion algorithm that Roni raves about. At some point, I will be trying it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+ but no Dolby Vision. For the price of the Vertex2, I can effectively add Dolby Vision to my Panny.
Super detail! This will be my last read post and I'm heading to bed. Goodnight everyone! Thanks again for supporting and self collecting!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 19, 2020, 23:57
Apparently, the IR codes for the Vertex2 are in the Logitech database, and I have the Harmony Hub to do my automation so at some point I'll be integrating the Vertex2 into my power on sequence
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: wcseow on May 20, 2020, 08:27
Just in case anyone interested to know how to connect the HDFury (credit to AVS Forum member)

Method 1
-----------
Sources
↓↓↓
HDFury → OLED
HDFury → Projector
HDFury → AVP/AVR


Method 2
-----------
Sources
↓↓↓
AVP/AVR

HDFury → OLED
HDFury → Projector

Method 2 will allow you to output the AVP/AVR OSD to either display to screen

With all the interest, makes me itchy to buy and test too...😁😁

Is the below a valid connection

Sources --> HDFury --> AVR --> Projector

Sources : i have UB820, UHD2000, Xbox One X
AVR : Denon 8500
Proj : JVC NX5

Any gain?, i guess is to watch DV content on the NX5
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 09:14
More to share. Finished my Re-calibration work on rec709 SDR material. Stunned !!

12 bit vs 8 bit whole lot of difference. I now understand the benefits of 12bit colour depth. It’s different. I can see straight away . Let the pic do the talking. I’ll just share in medium size, not the full size image. Slightly compressed. But in person they look damn nice. Or even the original pic itself (uncompressed version) looks nice

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/f005ff2b1f31df4d71e1738e03f620c6.jpg)

Skin tones, smooth like a criminal ... oops, smooth like sexy lady

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/06364df44dd31194751b61915b03282f.jpg)

Check out the motorbike

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/bae7a4c78da22d2f9c20dfd4740c3aa2.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/84972129374014eb63c13168eb04cdea.jpg)

That orange vs yellow Lamborghini

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/dc9e9a1954390d1fa29c78ce3ae67487.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/a63dd0596f4b08426760193edcd46c71.jpg)

Traffic light type water gun

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/f4c55f1ead2d249a01a6cdc267ecce50.jpg)

Internal engine look, stunning on the 135” for SDR REC709 12 bit

This is not out of the box type of quality, need to spend time to tweak and calibrate for the best colours, grayscale, gamma etc


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 20, 2020, 09:15


With all the interest, makes me itchy to buy and test too...

Is the below a valid connection

Sources --> HDFury --> AVR --> Projector

Sources : i have UB820, UHD2000, Xbox One X
AVR : Denon 8500
Proj : JVC NX5

Any gain?, i guess is to watch DV content on the NX5

What you mentioned is method 1. But you already using N5, with tone mapping?

Can do LLDV source to N5 with vertex 2

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 20, 2020, 09:22
More to share. Finished my Re-calibration work on rec709 SDR material. Stunned !!

12 bit vs 8 bit whole lot of difference. I now understand the benefits of 12bit colour depth. It’s different. I can see straight away . Let the pic do the talking. I’ll just share in medium size, not the full size image. Slightly compressed. But in person they look damn nice. Or even the original pic itself (uncompressed version) looks nice


Traffic light type water gun

Internal engine look, stunning on the 135” for SDR REC709 12 bit

This is not out of the box type of quality, need to spend time to tweak and calibrate for the best colours, grayscale, gamma etc


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Envy you got so much time in your hands everyday to play with it. :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 09:24
With all the interest, makes me itchy to buy and test too...

Is the below a valid connection

Sources --> HDFury --> AVR --> Projector

Sources : i have UB820, UHD2000, Xbox One X
AVR : Denon 8500
Proj : JVC NX5

Any gain?, i guess is to watch DV content on the NX5


What u want to do, with HDR is to take advantage of dolby vision algorithm, this will need a source player like the Oppo 203/205 or other source player that can do dolby vision .( not sure which other source player can do, u have to check that)

Use the source player( if they have dual input one for video one for sound, u want to go direct to the display, ie N5), go in directly to the vertex2, from vertex2 out to PJ/OLED . Avoid the avr path if possible. Go direct to display

After u do that, u still need to calibrate the display, but calibrating will be easier with tone mapping engaged on the source player. Because u can now use a SDR material to let vertex2 force on dolby vision so the PJ or OLED will kick in to HDR mode. Just calibrate as how u would a normal SDR with rec709 container , and you will get fantastic HDR image.

The other important point is to limit the nits on MAXCLL and MAXFALL to the displays capabilities

Enjoy !


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 20, 2020, 09:24
More to share. Finished my Re-calibration work on rec709 SDR material. Stunned !!

12 bit vs 8 bit whole lot of difference. I now understand the benefits of 12bit colour depth. It’s different. I can see straight away . Let the pic do the talking. I’ll just share in medium size, not the full size image. Slightly compressed. But in person they look damn nice. Or even the original pic itself (uncompressed version) looks nice

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/f005ff2b1f31df4d71e1738e03f620c6.jpg)

Skin tones, smooth like a criminal ... oops, smooth like sexy lady

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/06364df44dd31194751b61915b03282f.jpg)

Check out the motorbike

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/bae7a4c78da22d2f9c20dfd4740c3aa2.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/84972129374014eb63c13168eb04cdea.jpg)

That orange vs yellow Lamborghini

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/dc9e9a1954390d1fa29c78ce3ae67487.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/a63dd0596f4b08426760193edcd46c71.jpg)

Traffic light type water gun

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/f4c55f1ead2d249a01a6cdc267ecce50.jpg)

Internal engine look, stunning on the 135” for SDR REC709 12 bit

This is not out of the box type of quality, need to spend time to tweak and calibrate for the best colours, grayscale, gamma etc


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This is stunning! Bro you can provide calibration as a service Liao. BenQ have to sell their units with the Vertex 2 Liao

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 20, 2020, 09:25
Envy you got so much time in your hands everyday to play with it. :)
Ya everyday without fail man!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 09:27
Envy you got so much time in your hands everyday to play with it. :)


Slowly ba.... lots to play with, I was still testing various contents, map, or don’t map, Dolby vision or HDR original, rec709 upconvert BT2020 all sorts of testing now....

There is a bit of a hiccup when i do that, sometimes it doesn’t go back to the original picture mode. I.e. SDR picture mode... but it’s ok once I go in the web interface and click something to re-send the signal....

I suppose “latency “ is the correct word...


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 20, 2020, 09:38

Slowly ba.... lots to play with, I was still testing various contents, map, or don’t map, Dolby vision or HDR original, rec709 upconvert BT2020 all sorts of testing now....

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Haha you work from home right? At the "rate" you are testing, I wouldn't call it "slow" leh. :P If that's slow, I can't imagine what is "fast" for you...LoL. For most bros here, slowly is like spending 1 to 2hrs over the weekends or maybe late night when children go to sleep...then can do the calibration. FWIW I'm glad to see that you are thoroughly enjoying this little gadget. It will certainly keep you pre-occupied during this period. Keep those observations coming in :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 09:50
Hahaha , yea I did it at night, Cos mine in the living room. But good thing kids go to bed early 10 plus, I can faster take it out and settle it with whatever time I have, then this weekend I can enjoy some nice content and holiday on Monday . WFH actually helps me save 2 hours travelling time to and fro daily. So that’s put to good use

This device is like the minidsp 2x4hd is for bass lovers, a lot of flexibility with video stuff. With minidsp 2x4hd we can have lotsa controls for bass pre/post calibration setting delays,limiters,HP LP, bass eq. But u still need to dial in proper delays, levels, polarity, u still need to calibrate for the subs to perform. This fury stuff is the same, u still need to calibrate, but for video. More like a handyman’s tool

Something like that if I have to describe it. But boy the HDR looks stunning! The realism from the pictures I have seen; phenomenal. Mine is not even high end projector. Just simple normal DLP. Quite satisfied now for HDR content,finally....


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 20, 2020, 12:16

What u want to do, with HDR is to take advantage of dolby vision algorithm, this will need a source player like the Oppo 203/205 or other source player that can do dolby vision .( not sure which other source player can do, u have to check that)

Roni, just wanted to point out that wcseow doesn't need an Oppo 203/205. His UB820 will output LLDV. The only difference is that the 820 outputs LLDV only from a Dolby Vision source e.g., UHD Blu Ray or Netflix. Whereas the Oppo 203/205 will also upconvert HD and HDR sources to LLDV using some Dolby algorithm. Hence, for example, if you have the Oppo you can watch your old HD Blu Rays, unconverted into 4K Dolby Vision. Whether that is an improvement may depend on how well the particular HD Blu Ray works with Oppo's Dolby Vision algorithm.

There might be great utility for JVC projector owners to get the Vertex2. With the new firmware, the JVC projectors do tone mapping by analyzing each frame and applying a tone mapping i.e., their Frame Adapt mode. While this is good and better than most projectors, it may not be as good (my conjecture) as real Dolby Vision processing where theoretically because the Movie studios and Dolby work on getting the tone mapping right, it should be better than any generic algorithm. Certainly owners of the ultra expensive Lumagen processors will say that their processing will improve the dynamic tone mapping over FrameAdapt for $10K.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 20, 2020, 13:09

There might be great utility for JVC projector owners to get the Vertex2. With the new firmware, the JVC projectors do tone mapping by analyzing each frame and applying a tone mapping i.e., their Frame Adapt mode. While this is good and better than most projectors, it may not be as good (my conjecture) as real Dolby Vision processing where theoretically because the Movie studios and Dolby work on getting the tone mapping right, it should be better than any generic algorithm. Certainly owners of the ultra expensive Lumagen processors will say that their processing will improve the dynamic tone mapping over FrameAdapt for $10K.

Need members with Vertex 2 and JVC projector combo to test it out in order to verify whether it will be a significant improvement over JVC's own FrameAdapt HDR.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 13:23
Oh the Panasonic does it! That’s good.

I’m also able to feed in HDR10, and use JVC”’s frame adapt HDR on the fury without using dolby vision. This can work as well, not bad especially if I can limit the lightness output to the Pj.  But from what I’m seeing, it’s nowhere near what dolby vision is doing using Oppo player led. What a gem this player.

The pics look so natural, and no eye fatigue with HDR when dolby vision kicks in. What I’m comparing is BenQ 5700 HDR to the OLED C7. Somehow the tone mapping curves used by dolby vision seems to be Accurate and certainly looks very natural to me, especially skin tones. I suspect the curve Has somewhat been adjusted for reds to display better skin tone on screen . That’s my observations so far . It gives me that sense of realism and doesn’t  overdo it, pictures doesn’t look overly bright or saturated. It’s like always hitting the sweet spot for all types of content I throw at it 
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: alf on May 20, 2020, 13:27
I actually had a good time with calibration, with my 6 year old son. He was my second pair of eyes. As I approach the calibration, we have this grayscale that we adjust and he will go “ too much green”, oh it’s too much red. And then we adjust to and forth.

After I finish the calibration, I used the spears and munsil disk for evaluation. And the boy tells me, too much white, cant see the horse 149, cant see the trees behind the snow( signs of white clipping) . I didn’t even notice there is a 149 number on the horse all these while! Lol.  Later we reach the peacock and parrot scene and he goes too much colour. We need to bring down overall colour. I adjusted and he said, This is better!

Wow to my surprise, they have actually been watching material on the calibrated screen for some time. I’m amazed he can tell me the colours look over saturated and white is clipping. He knows what type of colours look right on the screen

Unbelievable from a 6 year old boy. It was a real fun father son bonding time. I enjoyed it !

Wow ..that was what happened to me . My home TV was calibrated , when we were are hotel for family holiday they all said the TV looks very off and there is no depth. 
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 20, 2020, 13:49
Just to be clear. This is from the HDFury site:

While all newer sources are all capable to output DV and LLDV, some olders ones might be limited to DV, below is a current list of sources capable to output LLDV.

List of sources capable of LLDV output for any DV content:
–  Sony Players (UBP-X700, UBP-X800/M2, UBP-X1100ES …)
– Apple TV 4K
– Shield Pro
– Xbox One X/S
– Panasonic UB820/UB9000
– Oppo 203/205
– Fire Stick/Fire Cube (Netflix/ATV App)
– Chromecast (Netflix)

List of sources capable of LLDV output for DV, HDR10 and SDR content:
– Oppo203/205
– Apple TV 4K
– Sony UBP-X700, UBP-X800/M2


The link to the page is as follows

https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic-dv-content-from-lldv-source-on-any-hdr10-display/ (https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic-dv-content-from-lldv-source-on-any-hdr10-display/)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 20, 2020, 14:23
I've since reduced the Max Luminance and Max CLL both on the HDR Metadata Generator and Custom DV Block to 350 nits from 600. The picture looks more HDR, similar to the effect of the Panny UB820 on limiting max luminance.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: wcseow on May 20, 2020, 14:52

What you mentioned is method 1. But you already using N5, with tone mapping?

Can do LLDV source to N5 with vertex 2

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk



1. Ya, just that I will prefer to have the NX5 connected to the AVR. No particular reason, except prefer not to touch that connection. Lol..I am not one that likes to move things around when things work. And I am very new to projector too. Just installed in Jan 2020, but first is the Optoma which I don't quite like. So within 2 weeks, did a trade in for a N5 which is so much better, especially for HDR with the frame adapt.

2. Right again, I am thinking both the N5 and the rest of my TVs are all Samsungs, none support DV. Thus maybe I can get the vertex and try to see what DV gave me. I believe the UB820 and Xbox support LLDV with DV discs. I plan to get the Apple TV 4K when the next version finally get released, which I hope that will do LLDV conversion.

Frankly, the discussion is quite technical and most times I get lost. Haha.....but may go in if this gives me the opportunity to experience DV.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 14:56
In case anyone wants to see the original uncompressed pic i took with my HP, you can download here, its much better compared to the compressed version uploaded on forum here

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qg-6myDqXoRih04Sx_1gxJoGz76cfRKu/view?usp=sharing

The avengers, guardians, captain marvel are all Dolby vision

The models TCL are SDR REC709 with 12bit colour depth

didnt bother to compare with previous version, its crystal clear much better
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 14:59
I've since reduced the Max Luminance and Max CLL both on the HDR Metadata Generator and Custom DV Block to 350 nits from 600. The picture looks more HDR, similar to the effect of the Panny UB820 on limiting max luminance.

you brought it down to 350, i brought it down by a factor of 8, so MaxCLL instead of 1000, i set to 125. And MaxFALL instead of 400 i set to 50, as the peak nits on my BenQ is only 50 nits thereabout
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: wcseow on May 20, 2020, 15:02
Thanks all for the replies and the links/comments.

So I guess I will get LLDV from DV sources on the UB820 and Xbox One X. I plan to get the Apple TV 4K anyway when the new version comes out which will do upconversion.

Ya, frankly I am also not sure whether that will improve on JVC FrameAdapt which I like a lot too.

If the connectivity can be all the said HDMI sources to Vertex and then on HDMI to AVR and the JVC only connects to the AVR, I might get one to experience DV. Is that a viable thought?

Thanks
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2020, 15:11
Here are the settings I’ve used that seem to work with the Oppo player led dolby vision with BenQ 5700

On vertex

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/151b717083c406c23d06284f6876964f.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/1d672fe5ddf6d2aaac03d401bc801156.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/e282d23ebc3b79927391ff78bd5ddd3e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/8a53fda4e6d140580bee28e65ada3c3b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/2c814bfc64cb81a90310797f0369bf6d.jpg)

Optional if you want to use frame adapt HDR for LLDV content

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/2ee747d26e814f6addf551df83a2bce7.jpg)

On the oppo, navigate to settings and set HDR to dolby vision processing

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/1af0efe86824abc9a8757137e10f9cd5.jpg)

Target luminance here is if you intend to convert SDR to HDR , right now I’m leaving SDR as it is... so the value 600nits here has no effect


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 20, 2020, 15:30
Here are the settings I’ve used that seem to work with the Oppo player led dolby vision with BenQ 5700

On vertex

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/151b717083c406c23d06284f6876964f.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/1d672fe5ddf6d2aaac03d401bc801156.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/e282d23ebc3b79927391ff78bd5ddd3e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/8a53fda4e6d140580bee28e65ada3c3b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/2c814bfc64cb81a90310797f0369bf6d.jpg)

Optional if you want to use frame adapt HDR for LLDV content

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/2ee747d26e814f6addf551df83a2bce7.jpg)

On the oppo, navigate to settings and set HDR to dolby vision processing

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/1af0efe86824abc9a8757137e10f9cd5.jpg)

Target luminance here is if you intend to convert SDR to HDR , right now I’m leaving SDR as it is... so the value 600nits here has no effect


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thank you for sharing
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: xfi on May 20, 2020, 17:05
Anyone can show a A/B  i.e. before/ after comparison?
Just interested to see the picture change.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 20, 2020, 19:29
Quote
I lowered the Max Luminence and MaxCLL to 125. Seems to look the same. Will leave it there as you mentioned the projector does < 100 nits

After lowering the max luminance for the Dolby Vision block to 125 nits, a bright DV movie I have - Atomic Blonde - looked washed out. So I brought it back to 1,000 and lowered HDR Brightness on the projector. Back to normal. I've now raised it to 4,000 nits and lowered HDR Brightness to -2. Looks even better, but colors have changed a bit. I have to admit I have no idea what this setting is doing, but on my BenQ W2700, certain scenes on certain movies look more HDR on low nits, but bright scenes wash out badly, so I think I'll leave it at 1,000 nits for now. Seems to be the most balanced.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 21, 2020, 00:26
Unbelievable this dolby vision

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/eeab98b0f8c82d8892343bed22352540.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200520/8c1c206122b2bbda715f36c37be9f675.jpg)

Gosh I feel like the dog is just beside me, so natural !! Damn! whatever dolby is doing to the signal, it had better stay that way.... dolby vision is the way forward .... no doubts about it, HDR10 HDR10+ don’t come close to this dolby vision... stunning , not sure what type of tone mapping curve is that in use but Damn syok the video quality, no eye fatigue at all, so natural

See the sunlight shine on the doggies head, so natural... fuu.... watching this in person, very nice. Once again, so happy with this fury ! My life saver for Pj HDR!


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Title: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 21, 2020, 00:29
After lowering the max luminance for the Dolby Vision block to 125 nits, a bright DV movie I have - Atomic Blonde - looked washed out. So I brought it back to 1,000 and lowered HDR Brightness on the projector. Back to normal. I've now raised it to 4,000 nits and lowered HDR Brightness to -2. Looks even better, but colors have changed a bit. I have to admit I have no idea what this setting is doing, but on my BenQ W2700, certain scenes on certain movies look more HDR on low nits, but bright scenes wash out badly, so I think I'll leave it at 1,000 nits for now. Seems to be the most balanced.


Yea I think so we gotta tweak about to find that balance. For me I’m seeing 125 50 MaxCLL MaxFALL as the magic number so far, need to test more materials to see how it goes. I may raise it up to a mid point , very interesting. So many options to play with, and as u have rightfully mentioned, all contents are mastered differently.

So far from my observations with the BenQ 5700, this looks like end game settings for me on HDR using dolby vision. It just looks damn natural with good specular highlights without eye fatigue.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 21, 2020, 00:31
By the way I’m on HDR brightness -2 on the BenQ curve for now


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 21, 2020, 06:45
Just to be clear. This is from the HDFury site:

While all newer sources are all capable to output DV and LLDV, some olders ones might be limited to DV, below is a current list of sources capable to output LLDV.

List of sources capable of LLDV output for any DV content:
–  Sony Players (UBP-X700, UBP-X800/M2, UBP-X1100ES …)
– Apple TV 4K
– Shield Pro
– Xbox One X/S
– Panasonic UB820/UB9000
– Oppo 203/205
– Fire Stick/Fire Cube (Netflix/ATV App)
– Chromecast (Netflix)

List of sources capable of LLDV output for DV, HDR10 and SDR content:
– Oppo203/205
– Apple TV 4K
– Sony UBP-X700, UBP-X800/M2


The link to the page is as follows

https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic-dv-content-from-lldv-source-on-any-hdr10-display/ (https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic-dv-content-from-lldv-source-on-any-hdr10-display/)
In addition to those list. I can confirm the new nvidia shield 2019 (the oddly cylindrical- shaped model) does support LLDV conversion as well. Tested it yesterday night. I will also out the Pioneer LX500 player and Xbox One X either tonight or tmr.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 21, 2020, 09:02
In addition to those list. I can confirm the new nvidia shield 2019 (the oddly cylindrical- shaped model) does support LLDV conversion as well. Tested it yesterday night. I will also out the Pioneer LX500 player and Xbox One X either tonight or tmr.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

only the Shield Pro 2019 version is able to, not the 2017 version.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 21, 2020, 10:57
One poison leads to another. Just whacked a shield 2019 version (even though I already owned the 2017 version), whacked the oppo 203 (thanks to Hanger)

I hope I can smell a projector soon.

All because of a Vertex 2 Jesus...

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 21, 2020, 10:59
One poison leads to another. Just whacked a shield 2019 version (even though I already owned the 2017 version), whacked the oppo 203 (thanks to Hanger)

I hope I can smell a projector soon.

All because of a Vertex 2 Jesus...

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk



......he sold the product...he get poisoned himself....    :)

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 21, 2020, 12:45
......he sold the product...he get poisoned himself....    :)

(Audio)

well it is a really good product i must say. esp to PJ owners. TV owners also can benefit, PJ owners will be way more. its like you are owning a new projector all over again.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 21, 2020, 13:45
well it is a really good product i must say. esp to PJ owners. TV owners also can benefit, PJ owners will be way more. its like you are owning a new projector all over again.

Based on what bros have shared here on the benefit, FULLY AGREED with you that this is a great product to push up the PQ to be closer to reference esp for PJ owners. And cost overlay looks quite ok too.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 21, 2020, 14:05
......he sold the product...he get poisoned himself....    :)

(Audio)

Like drug dealer taking his drugs  ;D
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 21, 2020, 14:47
bro Audio...ya man... its hard to part money mentality... plus i have family commitment prior. so still need to work out.. just a matter of time.

anyway good news is the 2nd batch already packing up from source. im expecting it to be out pretty soon...its earlier than expected once again.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 21, 2020, 15:40
I am using HDR optimizer on the Panasonic so I haven’t been able to get LLDV to work.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 21, 2020, 22:52
I have Some time this week to test out all different materials, just watched ready player one in Tekno3d tone mapped file, very nice indeed.

That file was re-encoded and specially tone mapped by a group of Colorist at 6000nits so had a MaxCLL 6000 and maxFALL 640. Watching it at this level, it clipped many scene on the BenQ pj. I adjusted to limit the MaxCLL and MaxFALL back to 125 and 50, then I could see the tone mapping in action again. Back to being natural and the specular highlights seen on traffic lights, cars, lamps, even the coin looked much more natural


I’ll try and compare the same scene with the OLED tv. Next I’ll try black panther. The most difficult, blacks below 10,5% stimulus clips on the BenQ 5700. Then I’ll test “ the mag” see how that goes

A lot of options to test
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 21, 2020, 23:21
I am using HDR optimizer on the Panasonic so I haven’t been able to get LLDV to work.

Oh u haven’t tried the spoofing technique for LLDV? It’s a must! Definitely very good. I’m seeing quality on the pj that’s very close to what I’m seeing on the OLED. It’s unbelievable, few notches up in quality. Can’t believe what I’m seeing on 135” screen

I’ve also tried HDR with JVC”s frame adapt HDR. LLDV still looks much nicer to me. But I’m not sure how is Panasonic, no chance to compare that
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 22, 2020, 06:02
I have the Oppo 203 and AppleTV 4K and those work with LLDV - as I’ve posted ages ago. I’m just saying I’ve not been able to do LLDV on my Panasonic. I’ll need to figure out why. I have suspected it’s due to HDR optimizer. But even then I prefer the way DV titles are handled by the Panasonic (like Black Panther) vs using the Oppo and Vertex 2.

I’ve always thought if Panasonic had an HDMI input, it would be so perfect
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 07:40
I have the Oppo 203 and AppleTV 4K and those work with LLDV - as I’ve posted ages ago. I’m just saying I’ve not been able to do LLDV on my Panasonic. I’ll need to figure out why. I have suspected it’s due to HDR optimizer. But even then I prefer the way DV titles are handled by the Panasonic (like Black Panther) vs using the Oppo and Vertex 2.

I’ve always thought if Panasonic had an HDMI input, it would be so perfect
Thks for the little info on Panny UB820 unable to get the LLDV working. I’ve owned the entry level UB420 and is contemplating whether to get the UB820 just so that I can stand to reap the benefits of the LLDV signal. But comforting to hear that HDR Optimizer which is the reason why we bought Panny in the first place is equally impressive in PQ when compared to Oppo using the LLDV.

I am wondering why not all DV capable source is able to take advantage of this “spoofing”. I’ll see whether my LX500 and Xbox One X console is able to do that. But my hope is not high now.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 07:42
Oh u haven’t tried the spoofing technique for LLDV? It’s a must! Definitely very good. I’m seeing quality on the pj that’s very close to what I’m seeing on the OLED. It’s unbelievable, few notches up in quality. Can’t believe what I’m seeing on 135” screen

I’ve also tried HDR with JVC”s frame adapt HDR. LLDV still looks much nicer to me. But I’m not sure how is Panasonic, no chance to compare that
Bro Ron, Doggie is actually one of the early adopters of this HD Fury device way before it hit our shore. I bet he knows more than we do...


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 22, 2020, 09:30
I was doing a few comparisons on DV titles on the Oppo vs UB820 to the projector (nonDV) and also DV titles on AppleTV4K to projector (non DV) vs AppleTV 4K to Sony ZD9 (LLDV).

Also AppleTV4K vs UB820 to projector.. I always wished I could pass the AppleTV4K through the UB820 to process HDR/DV so the Vertex 2 is the closest I can get it.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 22, 2020, 09:52
I have the Oppo 203 and AppleTV 4K and those work with LLDV - as I’ve posted ages ago. I’m just saying I’ve not been able to do LLDV on my Panasonic. I’ll need to figure out why. I have suspected it’s due to HDR optimizer. But even then I prefer the way DV titles are handled by the Panasonic (like Black Panther) vs using the Oppo and Vertex 2.

I’ve always thought if Panasonic had an HDMI input, it would be so perfect

Oh I see where u r coming from.... you have a preference with using the Panasonic. Do u find the HDR optimiser nicer with Panasonic vs the LLDV on the oppp 203 for HDR content?

I had the UB420, used it for one day and sold it off. It may be good for video, but audio wise lacking , not able to pass through Atmos dtsx vide it’s USB port. I didn’t get to test the full features

Did u attempt to calibrate the screen for HDR ?

I’m having one issue on the vertex2 now. I’m not able to lock in the values of the MaxCLL and maxFALL. It always goes back to default 4000 and 400 values . Do you have this issue ? I have to reinput this value everytime
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 09:55
Oh I see where u r coming from.... you have a preference with using the Panasonic. Do u find the HDR optimiser nicer with Panasonic vs the LLDV on the oppp 203 for HDR content?

I had the UB420, used it for one day and sold it off. It may be good for video, but audio wise lacking , not able to pass through Atmos dtsx vide it’s USB port. I didn’t get to test the full features

Did u attempt to calibrate the screen for HDR ?

I’m having one issue on the vertex2 now. I’m not able to lock in the values of the MaxCLL and maxFALL. It always goes back to default 4000 and 400 values . Do you have this issue ? I have to reinput this value everytime



During my brief use of the Vertex 2 Web UI, I've also encountered this problem with saved settings not "saved". I thought I didn't do it correctly hence I did not mention in my earlier post. Today, I have more time to explore as it is my off day. :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 22, 2020, 09:58
During my brief use of the Vertex 2 Web UI, I've also encountered this problem with saved settings not "saved". I thought I didn't do it correctly hence I did not mention in my earlier post. Today, I have more time to explore as it is my off day. :)

I suspect it’s a firmware issue then... will have to wait patiently. Same findings then

I was just reading through the manuals last night, to find how to lock down these values permanently, but fell asleep
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 10:00
I suspect it’s a firmware issue then... will have to wait patiently. Same findings then

I was just reading through the manuals last night, to find how to lock down these values permanently, but fell asleep
Haha. Which firmware are u on? OOTB firmware is already 0.53 iirc. And yesterday during lunch times, I think I saw 0.53 being the latest firmware.

Can we downgrade the firmware by any chance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 22, 2020, 10:02
Bro Ron, Doggie is actually one of the early adopters of this HD Fury device way before it hit our shore. I bet he knows more than we do...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea I’m sure he is, I was wondering why he didn’t use the Oppo with LLDV. Now I understand why. Haha. Looks like it’s another worthy method of connectivity for HDR . Worth exploring for sure
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 22, 2020, 10:03
During my brief use of the Vertex 2 Web UI, I've also encountered this problem with saved settings not "saved". I thought I didn't do it correctly hence I did not mention in my earlier post. Today, I have more time to explore as it is my off day. :)


There is nothing "wrong". The settings page allows you to customise the HDR/DV rules to the Vertex 2 for it to emulate. Every time you refresh, the settings go back to default - but the Vertex 2 would still retain the settings you sent before. You can do a query of the Vertex 2 to report back what settings you sent but it can be a little more convoluted to read the reported flags/code.

Panasonic's HDR Optimize worked really well for my projector and also on my Sony ZD9 before I got the DV firmware update
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 10:03
Yea I’m sure he is, I was wondering why he didn’t use the Oppo with LLDV. Now I understand why. Haha. Looks like it’s another worthy method of connectivity for HDR . Worth exploring for sure
I think doggie will share more with us from here on since more users now. Hehe


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Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 10:06
There is nothing "wrong". The settings page allows you to customise the HDR/DV rules to the Vertex 2 for it to emulate. Every time you refresh, the settings go back to default - but the Vertex 2 would still retain the settings you sent before. You can do a query of the Vertex 2 to report back what settings you sent but it can be a little more convoluted to read the reported flags/code.

Panasonic's HDR Optimize worked really well for my projector and also on my Sony ZD9 before I got the DV firmware update
I see. Thanks for the reassurance. That sound about right. So clicking “refresh” button will revert to the default settings. But it will still retain the DV tag that the source is sending to the display during operation.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 10:09
Doggie, are u on the latest firmware 0.53 or using an older one?


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 10:37
Can we downgrade the firmware by any chance?


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Ok answer my own question on whether we are able to revert to older firmware...it seems possible based on what I've read in the AVSforum. So if you find the latest firmware buggy, you can always revert to the previous working firmware for you.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 22, 2020, 10:53
Thanks doggie. Definitely more experience than any of us here.

One thing I find that HDFury tech team are damn awesome lot of peeps.. they are practically 24/7!

Well.. though it's also night time as we are here in SG, there are users there all over the world in the same community connected to discord app which they will also help to answer... In case you can't sleep at night and want to play with vertex settings lol.

Can add them in discord under the live chat via below link.

https://www.hdfury.com/support/

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 22, 2020, 12:08
Our last unit. Finally collected. Next batch will be shipping out next week!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200522/63494b6add6eb7f183fb9bc907ade37d.jpg)

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 22, 2020, 13:07
There is nothing "wrong". The settings page allows you to customise the HDR/DV rules to the Vertex 2 for it to emulate. Every time you refresh, the settings go back to default - but the Vertex 2 would still retain the settings you sent before. You can do a query of the Vertex 2 to report back what settings you sent but it can be a little more convoluted to read the reported flags/code.

Panasonic's HDR Optimize worked really well for my projector and also on my Sony ZD9 before I got the DV firmware update

I see , got it ! Thanks mate , that explains . I was scratching my head on why it kept going back to the default Settings. Now I understand, thanks a lot !
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 22, 2020, 13:14
In case anyone interested to know how to upgrade the firmware, quick video, in less than 2mins, pretty straight forward

http://www.youtube.com/v/3GTumSszdqM&fs=1

At the end of it still good to do a factory reset after the firmware upgrade. Cheers!!

Latest FW version now seems to be 0.53 at the time of this post
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 22, 2020, 13:47
During my brief use of the Vertex 2 Web UI, I've also encountered this problem with saved settings not "saved". I thought I didn't do it correctly hence I did not mention in my earlier post. Today, I have more time to explore as it is my off day. :)

Wahhhh, my turn to be envious, day off so nice. Monday off again, long week! I cant wait to finish my stuff and get right back in. Still exploring, now that i know the settings are correct, feel much more at ease.

Quick check, did you try calibrating your PJ for HDR? Ive been wanting to ask fellow forumers here, how is everyone handling HDR calibration for PJ ? do you guys just leave it at the default? or eyeball it?

What i have done now, is to force dolby vision processing on SDR Rec709, so it injects the metadata into the signal path and the BenQ switches into HDR mode. I then calibrated the screen (with dolby vision processing on) using SDR Rec709 (aimed at 75% saturation 75% intensity) chromapure disk with SDR patterns. This method seems to work so far except for light output, i leave all lightness for color errors at -85% consistently, but calibrated Hue and Saturation to its targeted reference value.

Another approach im attempting this weekend, is to use the calibrated SDR Rec709 (aimed at 75% saturation 75% intensity) reference value for whitebalance, CMS, and input it to the Benq when in HDR mode. Then let Dolby Vision do its tone mapping stuff.

The first approach which i have done seems ok, HDR looks fantastic.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 22, 2020, 15:36
Just received news that next batch should be arriving 28 May, if not earlier.  ;D Their support and the way they keep OU inform of status is top notch, always updated. lol
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 22, 2020, 16:25
There is nothing "wrong". The settings page allows you to customise the HDR/DV rules to the Vertex 2 for it to emulate. Every time you refresh, the settings go back to default - but the Vertex 2 would still retain the settings you sent before. You can do a query of the Vertex 2 to report back what settings you sent but it can be a little more convoluted to read the reported flags/code.

Panasonic's HDR Optimize worked really well for my projector and also on my Sony ZD9 before I got the DV firmware update

Doggie, I don't think that's it. After you change MaxCLL and MaxFall, you have to click <Create IF> That creates the string just above the button, which are the HEX codes, which will be put into the HDR Metadata. You then click <Send HDR> and it will send it to the projector so you can experiment with different levels of MAXCLL and MaxFall. After that, if you hit <Refresh> it won't change back

If you don't <Create IF> and <Send HDR>, nothing is changed in the HDR Metadata and if you Refresh, it will just flip the MaxCLL and MaxFall values back as you haven't done anything....

Possible I'm missing something as I'm a newbie at this....
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 22, 2020, 16:29
I’m having one issue on the vertex2 now. I’m not able to lock in the values of the MaxCLL and maxFALL. It always goes back to default 4000 and 400 values . Do you have this issue ? I have to reinput this value everytime

Roni, did you click <Create IF> and <Send HDR> after changing the settings? On mine, if I do that the setting is fixed. Otherwise it will go back when I refresh.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 22, 2020, 17:22
I have the Oppo 203 and AppleTV 4K and those work with LLDV - as I’ve posted ages ago. I’m just saying I’ve not been able to do LLDV on my Panasonic. I’ll need to figure out why. I have suspected it’s due to HDR optimizer. But even then I prefer the way DV titles are handled by the Panasonic (like Black Panther) vs using the Oppo and Vertex 2.

I’ve always thought if Panasonic had an HDMI input, it would be so perfect

I finally hooked up my Panasonic UB820 to the Vertex2. Getting the UB820 to output LLDV to the Vertex2 is as simple as going into the setup menu and turning Dolby Vision to ON. Of course, once you turn on Dolby Vision, the HDR Optimizer doesn't work anymore. So you have to choose. But its quite simple to A/B on the same disc between Dolby Vision versus HDR10 with HDR Optimizer. I haven't done enough watching to render a preference.

I'm starting to wonder if UHD Blu Ray is the way to go. The Marvel movies say the Avengers series are not in Dolby Vision on UHD Blu Ray. Black Panther was one of Disney's rare Dolby Vision releases. However, on Disney+, all the Avengers series are in Dolby Vision so if you want good tone mapping, it may be better to stream! I didn't really care before because no projectors had Dolby
Vision. But now with the Vertex2, all projectors can have Dolby Vision and a $50 Amazon FireStick will output LLDV perfectly.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 22, 2020, 17:31
I have Some time this week to test out all different materials, just watched ready player one in Tekno3d tone mapped file, very nice indeed.

That file was re-encoded and specially tone mapped by a group of Colorist at 6000nits so had a MaxCLL 6000 and maxFALL 640. Watching it at this level, it clipped many scene on the BenQ pj. I adjusted to limit the MaxCLL and MaxFALL back to 125 and 50, then I could see the tone mapping in action again. Back to being natural and the specular highlights seen on traffic lights, cars, lamps, even the coin looked much more natural


I’ll try and compare the same scene with the OLED tv. Next I’ll try black panther. The most difficult, blacks below 10,5% stimulus clips on the BenQ 5700. Then I’ll test “ the mag” see how that goes

A lot of options to test

I'm starting to wonder about the MaxFall and MaxCLL settings in the HDR/AVI tab. From my understanding and please correct me if I am wrong, it injects this into the HDR metadata passed to the projector. Hence the BenQ projector sees very low brightness source data and adjusts the BenQ tone mapping algorithm. What this accomplishes I don't know....
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 22:43
Finally have some time today to explore some of the features that comes with the Vertex 2. I have to say that I’m quite impressed by its extensive EDID functionality. Up to 99 EDIDs to play around with for every possible combination that your source and display can possibly churn out.

Spent nearly 3 hours this evening to play with it on my nVidia Shield TV 2019 and my Pioneer LX500. I will resume with Xbox One X tmr. I will share my more comments tmr.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 22:46
Doggie, I don't think that's it. After you change MaxCLL and MaxFall, you have to click <Create IF> That creates the string just above the button, which are the HEX codes, which will be put into the HDR Metadata. You then click <Send HDR> and it will send it to the projector so you can experiment with different levels of MAXCLL and MaxFall. After that, if you hit <Refresh> it won't change back

If you don't <Create IF> and <Send HDR>, nothing is changed in the HDR Metadata and if you Refresh, it will just flip the MaxCLL and MaxFall values back as you haven't done anything....

Possible I'm missing something as I'm a newbie at this....
Thanks for the tip on the <Create IF> button. I will try tmr.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 22, 2020, 23:03

Quick check, did you try calibrating your PJ for HDR? Ive been wanting to ask fellow forumers here, how is everyone handling HDR calibration for PJ ? do you guys just leave it at the default? or eyeball it?

What i have done now, is to force dolby vision processing on SDR Rec709, so it injects the metadata into the signal path and the BenQ switches into HDR mode. I then calibrated the screen (with dolby vision processing on) using SDR Rec709 (aimed at 75% saturation 75% intensity) chromapure disk with SDR patterns. This method seems to work so far except for light output, i leave all lightness for color errors at -85% consistently, but calibrated Hue and Saturation to its targeted reference value.

Another approach im attempting this weekend, is to use the calibrated SDR Rec709 (aimed at 75% saturation 75% intensity) reference value for whitebalance, CMS, and input it to the Benq when in HDR mode. Then let Dolby Vision do its tone mapping stuff.

The first approach which i have done seems ok, HDR looks fantastic.
Pls use Chromapure pattern generator to invoke BT2020 test patterns to do a HDR calibration. This will expand the CIE Color spectrum to BT2020. But we will be calibrating at 75% saturation and intensity to achieve P3-DCI Color gamut within the BT2020 container.

There is no need to calibrate for HDR using DV mode when used in conjunction with the Vertex 2. We just need to get the base HDR10 layer tuned with Chromapure s/w.

 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 12:08
Roni, did you click <Create IF> and <Send HDR> after changing the settings? On mine, if I do that the setting is fixed. Otherwise it will go back when I refresh.

Hi tsammy, yes I Change to 125 50 then click on “create if” and send HDR . When I tick  the HDR option, I can see the display showing 125 50 info for 30 seconds.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/ca6960299d619a7c30f0f98665dc3c74.jpg)

This is for HDR original content and no upconvert to dolby vision. I can see clearly 125 50 and pictures looks correct when this kicks in, even on a 4000 nits source content


But I’m convinced with dolby vision algorithm. It’s superior in many ways from what I’m seeing, even on a 6000 nit content . So I switch the HDR off, but with dolby vision player led, I can’t see this info on the vertex. It Is showing some MAC number instead . So I’m not sure if it is in 125 50 for dolby vision , I can’t tell from the info button. That’s why I asked the question, I suspected it to be firmware related.

The colour space should be rec2020 and not dci p3 on that page, here, not DCI P3. If I understand correctly, ycbcr should be in rec 709, 2020. Not dci-p3. So again no sure why it keeps default back to dci-p3

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/cff27d83bc458c03c36448c15d46fdf4.jpg)

If I close the browser and open it again, all the values are back to default 4000 . Maybe I’ll test with just HDR only. Off dolby vision for a while just to confirm this point by doggie . See if it maintains the 125 50 ratio that I have set on the vertex

Be back soon, study time with kids...


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 12:18
Using the Vertex 2 yesterday for about 3hrs and I was pretty impressed by its EDID management. It is easily the "swiss-army-knife" for all-things HDMI. You can pretty much discard your existing HDMI switcher/splitter or Dr HDMI to resolve annoying hand-shaking issues and go for this all-in-one solution package.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/lldv_osd_intro.JPG)

Setting up
My setup is pretty straight-forward. Due to the limited Inputs of this device, I have opted to connect it in between my Sony VW870ES laser projector and the Denon X8500H (AVR). This setup is ideal for me since I have more than 4 media devices - i.e. NVidia Shield TV 2019, XBox One X, Panasonic UB420, Pioneer LX500, Zappiti 4K Mini and my HTPC. Furthermore, I will need the AVR OSD for me to fiddle with the AVR settings once in a while. It is the simplest way to set up imo. Just a single HDMI cable from the HDMI Output (Main/ARC) to the RX0 Input and 2 HDMI cables out from TX0 and TX1 to my Sony VW870ES projector and my Samsung 4K HDR PC Monitor respectively. Both display is HDCP2.2 with a native 4K resolution of 4096 x 2160p and capable of outputting HDR10 (usually up to P3-DCI color gamut within a BT2020 container). This part is important if you want to copy the EDID Sink from TX0 to TX1 (in Splitter mode). Alternatively, you can also opt for the Matrix mode if you have two distinctly different display resolutions like a 1080p monitor or a non-HDR 4K monitor while the other one is a 4K HDR OLED TV/Projector. This will allow for a separate EDID Sink to work in an optimum setting for each of the display outputs without compromising the other display. This is something that Vertex 2 is able to handle it with aplomb.

Navigating the Web UI
Sadly, the Vertex 2 does not come with a remote controller (though you can use a third-party universal controller like the Logitech Harmony One or equivalent). Personally, I don't find this as a deal-breaker. On the contrary, I find the Web User Interface (UI) to be more than enough to handle the basic operation you will ever need. The web UI interface is easy to navigate without noticeable lag and changes made to the Vertex is almost instantaneous. Remember this is NEITHER a device that requires constant access NOR is it a calibration tool just because it is known to "improve" the image quality of your 4K display.

Low Latency Dolby Vision (LLDV)?
The main selling point of Vertex 2 is the ability to "spoof" the EDID and add Dolby Vision (DV) support to any HDR10 display output in the likes of a Projector. DV provides what we called dynamic meta-data on top of the HDR10 base layer. HDR10 only provides static meta-data. For the longest time, Projector owner has to rely on either MadVR in a HTPC or get the Panasonic UB9000/420/820 with their proprietary HDR Optimizer to enjoy dynamic tone-mapping (DTM) implemented at the source level. JVC N series Projectors also came up with their very own proprietary solution (FrameAdapt HDR) to do DTM at the display level. With the success of MadVR being among the top favorites for Projector owners, Madshi, the creator of MadVR even came up with a business plan to manufacture a standalone HTPC with MadVR built-in at an insane introductory price which is far beyond the reach of an average joe (like me). So a cheaper alternative is to continue using the free version of the MadVR on your HTPC (which I did) or get your hands on a Panasonic UB420/820 for all your 4K HDR content.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/info_tab.PNG)

Along came Vertex 2 which kind of provide another way to get better DTM for your 4K HDR content when they found a way to make the source - e.g. 4K UHD bluray players and media streamers like Apple TV and NVidia Shield TV 2019 to accept DV and its inherited benefits of DTM. I have been quite hesitant to buy the Vertex 2 because I used to own a JVC N7 Projector that was equipped with a FrameAdpat HDR feature; it worked wonders to my 4K content. In addition, I have also bought the Panasonic UB420 (courtesy of member WIM who helped to purchase a unit from Australia) and the most recent one being the HTPC with MadVR plugins that once again deliver quality 4K HDR PQ. I guess I can't resist the temptation after I saw winwinc81's bringing in HD Fury products into Singapore. So the rest is history.

When to use Automix?
The abovementioned Custom mode is for ease of use while Automix allows you more flexibility and control over what and how you want the Vertex 2 signal to be processed. For instance, you can choose what audio flags (e.g. DD+, Dolby Atmos, DTS X etc) to be bitstream from the Audio Output to the AVR for processing. Choose Audio Out if you intend to route all Audio flags to AVR for processing. You can mute the Audio Flags for your Video flags (from TX0 or TX1) under the Config tab. By default, it is set to "On". Unless you are using ARC or eARC to do "Audio Return" from the TX0 or TX1 and pipe to the AVR via Audio Output of the Vertex 2, it is recommended to turn it off.

If you intend to use LLDV for your source, be sure to check the DV flags to accept Custom DV String which derives its inputs under the DV tab. This option will achieve the same results as selecting Sony A1 LLDV (Preset 5) under the Custom option. Of course, the most important aspect of using Automix over Custom option is the ability to do Matrix processing when you have different inputs (source) for different display output (TV or PC monitor which does not have the same specs as the main display output - in this case, a Projector).

Scaler Tab
Not much need to be set here...All the default settings are best left intact. There is only one checkbox that you need to ensure it is uncheck - i.e. TX0 No Upscaling. By default, it is already unchecked. What this does is to allow 1080p content to be upscaled to 4K resolution for better image quality (make sure that you have enabled video pass-through in your AVR).
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 12:21
Best modes
Vertex 2 is very powerful and it contained 99 EDID presets with 9 custom presets ideally dialed in for some of the prominent names in the 4K community. Under the EDID tab, you will find Sony A1 LLDV is selected by default. The rest of the presets are all the possible combinations in terms of resolutions (4K, 1080p, 720p), colorspaces (BT709, HDR10, BT2020), bit-depths (8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit) and color sampling (4:4:4. 4:2:2, 4:2:0, RGB) that you can possibly think of. Of course, there is only 2 or 3 modes that you probably need to use. There are:

1. Sony A1 LLDV mode (Preset 5)
2. 4K60-444 600Mhz HDR BT2020 All Sound (Preset 11)
3. 4K60-444 600Mhz BT2020 All Sound (Preset 14)

Why this 3 modes and not the rest? Of course, you can play around with other custom presets as well but for the majority of us, we want to get LLDV to output from our LLDV sources (e.g. 4K UHD bluray player and Netflix Dolby Vision on media streamers like Roku, NVidia Shield TV, Chromecast and Apple TV) to a non-DV display - i.e. Projector or 4K TV/monitor. Hence out-of-the-box setting already has the popular Sony A1 LLDV (Preset 5) selected for you. Just ensure that your connection is properly setup and in no time, you will enjoy the benefits of DTM from a LLDV source.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/edid_tab.PNG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/edid_tab_droplist.JPG)

I will usually cycle between Preset 5 and Preset 11 to see which is better. For Preset 11, we are sending a HDR10 signal at maximum bandwidth (600Mhz) assuming your video chain - i.e. source, display and the HDMI cable, to the display (Projector). You will be asking why would anyone do that since LLDV is what we after? While I agreed for the most part, LLDV is what we seek but there are times when HDR10 layer has better dynamic contrast, shadow details and gradation compared to a DV layer. It is content-dependent, hence you may want to toggle between Preset 5 and 11 to see which one provides the cleanest picture and most natural colors in your eyes.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/hdr_tab.PNG)

Preset 14 is for those who wanted a brighter picture but still retain the BT2020 colorspace. Yes, I'm referring to the HDR>SDR BT2020 conversion which for the longest time have been the "go-to" mode for low lumen (lamp-based) projectors. You can select this Preset on the fly with just a quick selection from the drop-down list.

HDR/AVI Tab
If you have previously selected Preset 11 (HDR mode), then you will see the HDR metadata here. Details such as the EOTF (gamma-equivalent) curve used: SMPTE 2084 (PQ Cuve), the colorspace and the White Point: D65 (with the white reference coordinates) along with the RGB reference coordinates and the MaxCLL and MaxFALL (static meta-data for HDR). For 4K disc that comes with a static meta-data, it will appear here.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/hdr_metadata.PNG)

Unless you want to further customize the HDR settings like the Maximum and Minimum Luminance levels - e.g. set at Max Lum: 4,000 nits and Min LumL 0.005 nits, you can set it here as well but in order to use it, you will need to check the "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 [ignore RX HDR] checkbox. You can verify by checking the Max/Min Lum vlaues on top or the OSD (go to OSD tab to invoke the OSD by clicking the Send OSD button.

DV Tab
If you wish to invoke LLDV from source to the display output, then this is an important setting to set for those who use Automix option under the EDID tab instead of the Custom option. By default, if the 4K content has a DV flag and your source is able to support LLDV, then you will see a bunch of data strings captured in the DV meta-data [from source] segment. If there is no DV flag, the field box will be empty. I believe the HDR and DV tab used to be in a single tab setting but in the latest firmware ver 0.53, it appears that the DV has its own segment while HDR is combined with AVI to form the HDR/AVI tab. For the most part, there is no need for you to change any settings here but should you feel the need to play with the settings, remember to hit the <Create If> button followed by the <Send DV> button to send out the custom setting to your display.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/dv_tab.PNG)

I did not play with the CEC and Macro tabs. I will be checking out the XBox One X which also has Dolby Vision later today. Meanwhile here's a sample shot of a scene from Alita. One with HDR and the other one with LLDV.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/alita_hdr_osd.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/alita_lldv_osd.JPG)

Here's a Netflix screencap from my NVidia Shield TV 2019 when I toggle between HDR and LLDV mode.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/netflix_hdr_logo.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/netflix_hdr_osd.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/netflix_dv_logo.JPG)


I will update the settings as we go along...

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 23, 2020, 13:33
Excellent writeup as usual Desray
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 23, 2020, 13:36
I spent 3 hours last night watching Hobbs and Shaw :) I used it as a test because it has a Dolby Vision UHD and has an initially dark night scene and then goes into a split screen with Hobbs on one side and Shaw on the other and each side has either a warm or cold color temperature and then it changes. I watched 5 versions of it

1. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to ON passing LLDV to Vertex2
2. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF passing HDR10 to Vertex2
3. Apple TV app on Firestick 4K in Dolby Vision passing LLDV to Vertex2
4. Movies Anywhere app on Firestick 4K in HDR10 passing HDR10 to Vertex2
5. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF passing HDR10 directly to projector

On the whole everything looked pretty similar with a slight preference to the Panny 820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF. The Panasonic HDR Optimizer seems to be doing its job well with my Benq W2700. The image seemed sharper and colors seem more natural. There was also an evenness about the HDR which I didn't see with the Dolby Vision sources.

Is this Panny's HDR Optimizer doing tone mapping for a low nit projector being better than Dolby Vision being converted by a player and put into a HDR10 container? I don't know. The colors, greyscale etc could be off on Dolby Vision as the projector wasn't calibrated.

Overall, I'm quite happy just to be able to get Dolby Vision on my projector and what I'm seeing looks good but its hard for me judge overall whether one is better than the other. I strain constantly to see the specular highlight detail on high nit scenes, but without two screens side by side, its just not possible for me to see such minute details.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 23, 2020, 13:44
Hi tsammy, yes I Change to 125 50 then click on “create if” and send HDR . When I tick  the HDR option, I can see the display showing 125 50 info for 30 seconds.


Sorry to ask such a basic question. Anyway on my set, the settings remain forever once I <Send HDR>.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 23, 2020, 14:07
All very hardcore! The PQ is amazing on the DV!

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 14:09
Wah fantastic write up desray !! Solid ! Holiao, very detailed !

Look forward to more information along the way

The other benefit with this is on the bright subtitles when tone mapping kicks in. Because each time subtitles come on, the darker scenes suddenly go bright, then as subtitles goes off, the whole screen goes dim again.. that was my previous experience with the OLED HDR. To circumvent this, I used a lighter gray , slightly darker colours for subtitles

I don’t have this issue now with the Pj using dolby vision LLDV from Oppo . I used to see the same issue with white coloured subtitles with HDR10. Though now I continue to use a darker subtitle colour, also being set using the Oppo controls .


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 14:15
Sorry to ask such a basic question. Anyway on my set, the settings remain forever once I <Send HDR>.


Hi Sammy , don’t worry. It is not basic at all. We are all learning by the day. This HDR thing is not so straight forward as we do not have a standard for HDR. We can only try and find which curve works best.

Mine doesn’t stay even after I click send HDR . That’s why I was looking for some “save button” to lock down this information on the vertex2, but can’t seem to find. I’ll do Factory reset. See how it goes. I don’t know why it keeps coming back to 4000 MaxCLL each time I use the browser interface


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 14:48
Pls use Chromapure pattern generator to invoke BT2020 test patterns to do a HDR calibration. This will expand the CIE Color spectrum to BT2020. But we will be calibrating at 75% saturation and intensity to achieve P3-DCI Color gamut within the BT2020 container.

There is no need to calibrate for HDR using DV mode when used in conjunction with the Vertex 2. We just need to get the base HDR10 layer tuned with Chromapure s/w.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I actually found tremendous benefit with the LLDV HDR calibration so far on the BenQ using chromapure. If I use the default out of the box settings, it’s not nice. I first attempted white balance calibration, with LLDV engaged. Making sure the grayscale is as close as possible for RGB

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/5f7e10137d81e6340c5268ebc3656c7a.jpg)

RGB is very balanced from 20 -100% as can be seen. You can also see how from 40% above, tone mapping is working as intended with a hard knee from 50% onwards to 60%. Same thing for HDR, below 10% I’m not seeing the blackest of blacks. Jvc probably will be better in this area

Then I calibrated the screen to rec709 container 75% saturation and 75 intensity, forcing SDR to use LLDV but preserving the rec709 container when attempting calibration. This allows me to accurately hit the saturation targets according to the BenQ 5700’s capability. Although I know it’s capable for 100% dcip3 colour space, I stood with with my decision for 75% saturation and 75% intensity within the rec709 container instead of rec2020 container.

I also didn’t follow chromapure’s advice to calibrate it to 50% saturation and 50 intensity using the rec2020 colour space. It doesn’t look good to me. I ditched that in favour of rec709 75% but using SDR source material

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/e752ad118550b57549b4704228378e3a.jpg)

All spot on!

Why I went with 75% saturation on the colour calibration is because it looks much more natural to me, even on original SDR calibration without LLDV. I prefer 75% targets over 100% saturation targets because not many content on display has 100% colour. It made more sense for me to calibrate for a perfect 75% saturation target

This is highly noticeable on screen from what I’m seeing post calibration using the hybrid approach above. It is the exact reason why I’m saying dolby vision is superior to HDR10, HDR10+ . I can see the differences clearly on how the tone mapping is working with dolby vision

Very nice to know Xbox also allows for dolby vision. So nice. I have an old Xbox too bad doesn’t support


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 14:49
I actually found tremendous benefit with the LLDV HDR calibration so far on the BenQ using chromapure. If I use the default out of the box settings, it’s not nice. I first attempted white balance calibration, with LLDV engaged. Making sure the grayscale is as close as possible for RGB

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/5f7e10137d81e6340c5268ebc3656c7a.jpg)

RGB is very balanced from 20 -100% as can be seen. You can also see how from 40% above, tone mapping is working as intended with a hard knee from 50% onwards to 60%. Same thing for HDR, below 10% I’m not seeing the blackest of blacks. Jvc probably will be better in this area

Then I calibrated the screen to rec709 container 75% saturation and 75 intensity, forcing SDR to use LLDV but preserving the rec709 container when attempting calibration. This allows me to accurately hit the saturation targets according to the BenQ 5700’s capability. Although I know it’s capable for 100% dcip3 colour space, I stood with with my decision for 75% saturation and 75% intensity within the rec709 container instead of rec2020 container.

I also didn’t follow chromapure’s advice to calibrate it to 50% saturation and 50 intensity using the rec2020 colour space. It doesn’t look good to me. I ditched that in favour of rec709 75% but using SDR source material

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/e752ad118550b57549b4704228378e3a.jpg)

All spot on!

Why I went with 75% saturation on the colour calibration is because it looks much more natural to me, even on original SDR calibration without LLDV. I prefer 75% targets over 100% saturation targets because not many content on display has 100% colour. It made more sense for me to calibrate for a perfect 75% saturation target

This is highly noticeable on screen from what I’m seeing post calibration using the hybrid approach above. It is the exact reason why I’m saying dolby vision is superior to HDR10, HDR10+ . I can see the differences clearly on how the tone mapping is working with dolby vision

Very nice to know Xbox also allows for dolby vision. So nice. I have an old Xbox too bad doesn’t support


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Well done.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 16:01
Ok points clarified. I have now confirmed the following for this setting using HDR10

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/fe4a192e92791a490f596604fd2adeec.jpg)

By using HDR10, I can see clearly what the controls does. Change the primaries here to rec2020. Set the respective values

125, 0.005, 125 50 ( benQ 5700 only ) other projectors will vary depending on the capabilities of each equipment

Click “ create if” send HDR , then I see this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/e792c47f4bf49bb86ce9746dc60b8304.jpg)

125 50 is displaying correctly.

I’m not able to change things on the fly. I will have to first stop the video. Clicking on refresh, doesn’t set it back to default .

I will have to close the browser, it then comes back to the default value. I will still need to click “ create if “ and “ send HDR “

It then sends back the default value Which is 4000 0.0001 and 1000,400

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/62b7b3f7b082a8ab6a9518059d8a63b0.jpg)

So the refresh button has no effect whatsoever. If we want to change any values, we must first hit create jf and send HDR . Then it will update the values


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:17
I spent 3 hours last night watching Hobbs and Shaw :) I used it as a test because it has a Dolby Vision UHD and has an initially dark night scene and then goes into a split screen with Hobbs on one side and Shaw on the other and each side has either a warm or cold color temperature and then it changes. I watched 5 versions of it

1. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to ON passing LLDV to Vertex2
2. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF passing HDR10 to Vertex2
3. Apple TV app on Firestick 4K in Dolby Vision passing LLDV to Vertex2
4. Movies Anywhere app on Firestick 4K in HDR10 passing HDR10 to Vertex2
5. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF passing HDR10 directly to projector

On the whole everything looked pretty similar with a slight preference to the Panny 820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF. The Panasonic HDR Optimizer seems to be doing its job well with my Benq W2700. The image seemed sharper and colors seem more natural. There was also an evenness about the HDR which I didn't see with the Dolby Vision sources.

Is this Panny's HDR Optimizer doing tone mapping for a low nit projector being better than Dolby Vision being converted by a player and put into a HDR10 container? I don't know. The colors, greyscale etc could be off on Dolby Vision as the projector wasn't calibrated.

Overall, I'm quite happy just to be able to get Dolby Vision on my projector and what I'm seeing looks good but its hard for me judge overall whether one is better than the other. I strain constantly to see the specular highlight detail on high nit scenes, but without two screens side by side, its just not possible for me to see such minute details.

Astute observations there Tsammyc. I think bro Doggie can relate more to the Panny's HDR Optimizer and he probably agreed with you as well. :)

Speaking of HDR10 vs DV, do take note that sometimes HDR10 provides a much brighter scene with more shadow details compared to a DV layer. This is not uncommon. In fact, I have made quite a few comparisons of my own in the past on my friend's 4K OLED TV (which I helped to calibrate), I have discovered that although DV's wider color gamut (12-bit) versus HDR10 (10-bit) should have a significant impact on the overall contrast and colors...this not always true. It really depends on how the content is mixed and whether proper HDR static meta-data provides a proper MaxCLL and FALL values for the display output to do a more accurate DTM. DV's key strength is the ability to reproduce wider shades of colors compared to the HDR10 layer. As such, we can see different shades of red on the rose petals or the skin tones of a person. When it comes to perceived contrast and shadow details, it will be hard to find a winner between HDR10 and DV. In fact, DV tends to project a dimmer image in some dim-lit scenes which even resulted in some black crush! This does not happen on the HDR10 layer. But when it comes to a particularly bright scene (like say a flickering candle light, an intense explosion or bolts of lightning that lit up a night sky to name a few), this is where DV shines as it is able to reproduce more intense imagery as it work its DTM magic on a scene-by-scene basis but so for HDR which has to reply on an average MaxCLL and MaxFALL meta-data. If we are talking about a movie with an average peak brightness, chances are it is harder to pcik a winner here. Hence it does come as a surprise that Panny's HDR Optimizer or even JVC projector with FrameAdapt HDR feature activated may actually produce good HDR imagery when only HDR10 layer is engaged. Of course, one can argue that with the Vertex 2, we can now have the best of both worlds with the ability to select a custom EDID setting to optimized our viewing experience on any kind of 4K HDR content on our non-DV capable display output - the Projector.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 23, 2020, 16:18
I spent 3 hours last night watching Hobbs and Shaw :) I used it as a test because it has a Dolby Vision UHD and has an initially dark night scene and then goes into a split screen with Hobbs on one side and Shaw on the other and each side has either a warm or cold color temperature and then it changes. I watched 5 versions of it

1. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to ON passing LLDV to Vertex2
2. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF passing HDR10 to Vertex2
3. Apple TV app on Firestick 4K in Dolby Vision passing LLDV to Vertex2
4. Movies Anywhere app on Firestick 4K in HDR10 passing HDR10 to Vertex2
5. Panny UB820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF passing HDR10 directly to projector

On the whole everything looked pretty similar with a slight preference to the Panny 820 with Dolby Vision set to OFF. The Panasonic HDR Optimizer seems to be doing its job well with my Benq W2700. The image seemed sharper and colors seem more natural. There was also an evenness about the HDR which I didn't see with the Dolby Vision sources.

Is this Panny's HDR Optimizer doing tone mapping for a low nit projector being better than Dolby Vision being converted by a player and put into a HDR10 container? I don't know. The colors, greyscale etc could be off on Dolby Vision as the projector wasn't calibrated.

Overall, I'm quite happy just to be able to get Dolby Vision on my projector and what I'm seeing looks good but its hard for me judge overall whether one is better than the other. I strain constantly to see the specular highlight detail on high nit scenes, but without two screens side by side, its just not possible for me to see such minute details.

That’s my overall impression too. UB820 processing is superior to the LLDV hack

I remember watching Last Jedi DV UHD on the old UB900/Oppo 20x to the Sony ZD9 pre DV firmware and the colors and contrast looked off - washed out/ grey cast. Same when I used the discs on my Sony 760ES projector.

Then I played the same disc on 20x with LG C7 with DV and the DV was superior. The Sony ZD9 with the DV firmware and 20x improved tremendously.

And when I got the UB820 and fed it to the Sony 760ES, it made my projector look more like the DV version I was seeing on the OLED.

And I still prefer it to the LLDV Vertex 2 hack. But I tend to watch more things now on AppleTV 4K so the Vertex 2 helps bring the quality of those streams a lot.



Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 23, 2020, 16:19
I haven’t updated my firmware but my OSD always says DV on the input when I send LLDV from AppleTV and Oppo. Why does yours not show DV on yours, des?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:19
Ok points clarified. I have now confirmed the following for this setting using HDR10

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/fe4a192e92791a490f596604fd2adeec.jpg)

By using HDR10, I can see clearly what the controls does. Change the primaries here to rec2020. Set the respective values

125, 0.005, 125 50 ( benQ 5700 only ) other projectors will vary depending on the capabilities of each equipment

Click “ create if” send HDR , then I see this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/e792c47f4bf49bb86ce9746dc60b8304.jpg)

125 50 is displaying correctly.

I’m not able to change things on the fly. I will have to first stop the video. Clicking on refresh, doesn’t set it back to default .

I will have to close the browser, it then comes back to the default value. I will still need to click “ create if “ and “ send HDR “

It then sends back the default value Which is 4000 0.0001 and 1000,400

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/62b7b3f7b082a8ab6a9518059d8a63b0.jpg)

So the refresh button has no effect whatsoever. If we want to change any values, we must first hit create jf and send HDR . Then it will update the values


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That's about right from my experience yesterday. I believe that's what bro Doggie trying to imply in his last post as well?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:24
I haven’t updated my firmware but my OSD always says DV on the input when I send LLDV from AppleTV and Oppo. Why does yours not show DV on yours, des?

I only see LLDV - no Dolby Vision logo.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/lldv_osd_intro.JPG)

Here's an image when I haven't play around with the Vertex 2 settings yet but bt default, Custom Preset 5 is selected.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 16:25
So here is when DV kicks in , I can see the player doing its job

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/a3aa2dfa4ec1f0feb11d28e3d8074352.jpg)

But I can’t see the values of 125 , 0.005 anywhere  here , unlike HDR where I can see it clearly

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/846c3e556bcb30b52c8135d71999a57c.jpg)

This is the problem I have now , not able to tell if it has kicked in . But I can see JVC LLDV on the far end right corner.

If i take it up the next level using the macro settings, for frame adapt HDR

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/d255d7a76ea6b821761fa0c20b7cebd1.jpg)

Then I can see JVC LLDV and JVC LLDV appearing twice

Again none of it tells me the MaxCLL and maxFALL values, unlike HDR10


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:27
That’s my overall impression too. UB820 processing is superior to the LLDV hack

I remember watching Last Jedi DV UHD on the old UB900/Oppo 20x to the Sony ZD9 pre DV firmware and the colors and contrast looked off - washed out/ grey cast. Same when I used the discs on my Sony 760ES projector.

Then I played the same disc on 20x with LG C7 with DV and the DV was superior. The Sony ZD9 with the DV firmware and 20x improved tremendously.

And when I got the UB820 and fed it to the Sony 760ES, it made my projector look more like the DV version I was seeing on the OLED.

And I still prefer it to the LLDV Vertex 2 hack. But I tend to watch more things now on AppleTV 4K so the Vertex 2 helps bring the quality of those streams a lot.



I guess with the anecdotal evidence presented by both Tsammyc and Doggie, it is quite clear that Panny's HDR Optimizer is doing a better job than LLDV using Vertex 2.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:29
So here is when DV kicks in , I can see the player doing its job

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/a3aa2dfa4ec1f0feb11d28e3d8074352.jpg)

But I can’t see the values of 125 , 0.005 anywhere  here , unlike HDR where I can see it clearly

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/846c3e556bcb30b52c8135d71999a57c.jpg)

This is the problem I have now , not able to tell if it has kicked in . But I can see JVC LLDV on the far end right corner.

If i take it up the next level using the macro settings, for frame adapt HDR

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/d255d7a76ea6b821761fa0c20b7cebd1.jpg)

Then I can see JVC LLDV and JVC LLDV appearing twice

Again none of it tells me the MaxCLL and maxFALL values, unlike HDR10


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I didn't really play with the Macro setting...I'm not sure whether it is a good idea to use the FrameAdapt HDR setting for LLDV content since you don't have a JVC projector.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 16:40
That's about right from my experience yesterday. I believe that's what bro Doggie trying to imply in his last post as well?

yes that is correct, for HDR thats verified. but it does not reset to default with a refresh button. One would still need to "create If" send HDR for the settings to take effect.

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:43
yes that is correct, for HDR thats verified. but it does not reset to default with a refresh button. One would still need to "create If" send HDR for the settings to take effect.
Yep agreed. U need to send the HDR value to take effect. Refresh page didn’t do nothing but it also does not affect the new setting which you had just sent to the projector.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:46
Oh just a side note, using iPad or any tablet (preferably 10” and above) is the best medium to navigate the Vertex 2 web UI. It is so much better than using a laptop.

I wonder why there is mobile app (iOS and Android) for the Vertex 2? It should be created for use in this situation.

Just my 2 cents...


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 16:47
Astute observations there Tsammyc. I think bro Doggie can relate more to the Panny's HDR Optimizer and he probably agreed with you as well. :)

Speaking of HDR10 vs DV, do take note that sometimes HDR10 provides a much brighter scene with more shadow details compared to a DV layer. This is not uncommon. In fact, I have made quite a few comparisons of my own in the past on my friend's 4K OLED TV (which I helped to calibrate), I have discovered that although DV's wider color gamut (12-bit) versus HDR10 (10-bit) should have a significant impact on the overall contrast and colors...this not always true. It really depends on how the content is mixed and whether proper HDR static meta-data provides a proper MaxCLL and FALL values for the display output to do a more accurate DTM. DV's key strength is the ability to reproduce wider shades of colors compared to the HDR10 layer. As such, we can see different shades of red on the rose petals or the skin tones of a person. When it comes to perceived contrast and shadow details, it will be hard to find a winner between HDR10 and DV. In fact, DV tends to project a dimmer image in some dim-lit scenes which even resulted in some black crush! This does not happen on the HDR10 layer. But when it comes to a particularly bright scene (like say a flickering candle light, an intense explosion or bolts of lightning that lit up a night sky to name a few), this is where DV shines as it is able to reproduce more intense imagery as it work its DTM magic on a scene-by-scene basis but so for HDR which has to reply on an average MaxCLL and MaxFALL meta-data. If we are talking about a movie with an average peak brightness, chances are it is harder to pcik a winner here. Hence it does come as a surprise that Panny's HDR Optimizer or even JVC projector with FrameAdapt HDR feature activated may actually produce good HDR imagery when only HDR10 layer is engaged. Of course, one can argue that with the Vertex 2, we can now have the best of both worlds with the ability to select a custom EDID setting to optimized our viewing experience on any kind of 4K HDR content on our non-DV capable display output - the Projector.

yes colors look very good with DV, so much so that it adds this "realism" feel, especially skin tones, they look really natural to me, it brings out the depth without being over saturated and i dont get eye fatigue at all, thats the part i love most with this LLDV. I havent seen Panasonic's HDR Optimiser in action, but looks like pana's hdr optimiser is no slouch either and clearly the better option. Either way, the fury offers the best of both worlds, what a gem this Fury device
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 16:54
Oh just a side note, using iPad or any tablet (preferably 10” and above) is the best medium to navigate the Vertex 2 web UI. It is so much better than using a laptop.

I wonder why there is mobile app (iOS and Android) for the Vertex 2? It should be created for use in this situation.

Just my 2 cents...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

at least the vertex2 has web interface, i think the first vertex doesnt support it, that must be really tough navigating through the controls.....

More or less done, will shoot the question to HD Fury CS on why it doesnt show the MaxCLL Fall values when in LLDV using oppo player led

will also be comparing JVC's Frame Adapt HDR feature on the Benq...will be good now i can see so many different settings and what it does etc. this is pretty versatile. and i havent dive into Apple TV. Looks like there is nice benefit with dolby vision Atmos content on Netflix

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/c76fc0db73e4e24a5c4ceee5326d7d82.jpg)

Very nice indeed. Set , calibrate , forget and enjoy !


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 23, 2020, 16:56


Very nice indeed. Set , calibrate , forget and enjoy !


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Yep. That's the plan.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 17:37
I didn't really play with the Macro setting...I'm not sure whether it is a good idea to use the FrameAdapt HDR setting for LLDV content since you don't have a JVC projector.


You are right, just tested LLDV frame adapt HDR, seems to be worse off. Better not to use this

Just the original Oppo player led LLDV seems to work best in my case with the BenQ


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Title: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 23, 2020, 17:50
It’s also worth noting when too many settings are changed to and forth, it’s better to power down the source player and reboot the vertex2

Sometimes it seems to stay on in HDR mode when SDR content is playing, technically it shouldn’t, it should switch back to SDR REC709. Then back to HDR when in HDR

But partly because I keep fiddling with the settings.

But a restart and reboot solves it, goes back to normal


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 01:05
Wow, enjoying the fruits now, freaking amazing !! Black panther

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/aae1e9f828e62ecf131b3078ccc3ecbc.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/f5e84a552042ba17bbf9b1a67094ea49.jpg)

The sparks !! Amazing watching it on the 135”, nobody will believe this is from a BenQ DLP PJ...


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 24, 2020, 01:12
Take it with DSLR camera bro lol

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 01:16
Absolutely stunning !!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/e6288e25961e3070ffc764643a9fb830.jpg)

Gosh !! Unbelievable post calibration HDR

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/9121ec1f7ab1e71dc7601316ee3c41ff.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/88f5b36ef8c8b526d1695adae35d8a49.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/7c05fb52a0fb409b7e4a6cd54b2eec1a.jpg)

Superb !  Damn happy , first class !!


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 01:17
Take it with DSLR camera bro lol

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Drool man if u watch this in person... just iPhone and compressed only when uploaded to forum here... u can imagine what I’m seeing in person here at home ...




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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 01:28
My all time fav scene from aquaman

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/dbf2612132ace3f6f6583aa7b9173441.jpg)

The lightning at the background providing enough light for us to see the creatures and shadow details.. absolutely jaw dropping watching this scene

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/198fd13478e3325e96e2228f0c3079a4.jpg)

It goes dark and the creatures are following

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/81119371881e29fc3f5002e8c7eaf27b.jpg)

Suddenly Lightning strikes again and u can see the thousands of creature in hot pursuit

Fuuuuuu...... brilliant! My favourite


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 24, 2020, 08:22
It’s also worth noting when too many settings are changed to and forth, it’s better to power down the source player and reboot the vertex2

Sometimes it seems to stay on in HDR mode when SDR content is playing, technically it shouldn’t, it should switch back to SDR REC709. Then back to HDR when in HDR

But partly because I keep fiddling with the settings.

But a restart and reboot solves it, goes back to normal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yes. It does behave erratically when too many settings applied. Sometimes even rebooting the Vertex 2 also didn't work. The only solution is to shutdown the source and wait for a few mins before powering up. I have no luck making my mpc-hc program to play w/o stuttering if I used MadVR. Before Vertex 2, I have no such issue. Cycle numerous EDID settings did not resolve the problem. Have to try other methods today.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 24, 2020, 08:26
Bro Roni going all head over heels with his newfound love... Lol the excitement and the enthusiastic level shooting up the rooftop based on his narration is addictive.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Jag on May 24, 2020, 09:51
Does the HD Fury perform frame by frame  dynamic tone mapping?

I may be outdated, but I MadVR is the only low cost method I know now that can do this at present.... and only with a high end graphics card.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 10:19
Bro Roni going all head over heels with his newfound love... Lol the excitement and the enthusiastic level shooting up the rooftop based on his narration is addictive.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

Damn nice man bro, never thought it would be that good after the calibration for HDR , I wasn’t having much expectations initially as I was made to believe it was limited to its hardware capabilities. It turns out to be fantastic ( imagine we demoed the BenQ for HDR at Alfie place the first time? ) this is nothing like that. It’s damn solid , just need to calibrate it correctly

I have just tried Apple TV 4K, no problem whatsoever with dolby vision and Atmos passing through. It picks up nicely vide eARC , Extraction movie, 6 underground , all works nicely.

My only problem with Apple TV now is I can’t calibrate this for dolby vision. Previously I had the chance to calibrate it using Oppo so for rec709 material, I can have isf day and isf night for Oppo and Apple TV respectively

But for HDR, there is only 1 picture mode from the BenQ. So I can’t shuffle between the 2 calibrated settings. So I’ll have to live with the settings calibrated for Oppo. I can see the difference between the Apple TV dolby vision non calibrated vs the Oppo 205 dolby vision calibrated. Big difference from what I’m seeing.

The method for HDR calibration seems to work with the BenQ 5700

I’ve also explored HDR like you have mentioned. And I agree it looks nice on certain content. But after prolonged minutes, it’s a little bit tiring for the eyes. Too much light going through, slightly more glaring . But they look very nice if you take a photo or pause a moment to see ( maybe it’s a preference thing)

What I’ve observed with the dolby vision metadata is that its like 1/2 the light output for overall screen, yet when it comes to the specular highlights, it’s right up there with HDR type effect . This is the part that makes it watchable for Long periods. I can’t watch this on HDR10 prolonged period on the C7 oled, too bright. OLED light will have to come down drastically for HDR10 content. On ATV 4K I’d have to bring HDR brightness curve up to +1

Also observed subtitle in white, no such issues on it being  “one time bright one time dark kinda effect, each time subtitles come on and goes off”.

Overall it’s quite good. Very versatile and most importantly, we have a solution for HDR for PJ, without needing to spend a bomb

The most important aspect with the fury in my opinion is the ability now to calibrate for HDR in a much better efficient way that made things look so much more natural and realistic when HDR kicks in. This is in my opinion the biggest benefit . It’s not really plug and play and everything is gonna look good.

The equipment still needs to be calibrated with a colorimeter, but one can do away with the expensive options like the Lumagen etc

Overall, highly recommended , if one is able to calibrate their screen with a meter


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 24, 2020, 10:22
Does the HD Fury perform frame by frame  dynamic tone mapping?

I may be outdated, but I MadVR is the only low cost method I know now that can do this at present.... and only with a high end graphics card.
No you can’t if you are coming from a HTPC POV. I’m having issue with my MPC-HE playback with MadVR right now.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 11:47
I’m not sure if u guys can see clearly on the forum here. But I’ll just share what I’m seeing

This is just the menu page, before adding the fury. Taken 1 month ago when I was watching the animation “white snake” Zoom in to the blue

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/278dfd643c1ca630a3a2e3c0e23df6a7.jpg)

Then this one below is blue with 12 bit colour depth, after adding and Using the Hd fury vertex2

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/8c04a7630f1d26f73597367658acca4f.jpg)

I can see the 12bit “depth” in colour for the blue, so much nicer tone to it. Compared to the original blue . It has like this higher density blue but not over saturated. Not sure how else to explain in technical terms.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 13:08
ok here are some Materials for you to test it out.... here you go for DL, dont say Bo Jio.... Link will expire in 2 weeks

First one is Black Widow Trailer in HDR-X FULL RANGE DIGITAL INTERMEDIATE PQ HDR GRADE

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y1p8wkWA25sD29eo-2hAf58VgZtmxFgD/view?usp=sharing

4k, X265, Chroma subsampling 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Color range : Limited
Color primaries: BT.2020
Mastering display color primaries : Display P3
Mastering display luminance: min: 0.0500 cd/m2, max: 9800 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level : 9800
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level : 600


Next one is the same, Assasins Creed, Enjoy!!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kdj_fKXvm8HKHXTu_Y3IIY4owy6zV12g/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 24, 2020, 14:03
Does the HD Fury perform frame by frame  dynamic tone mapping?

I may be outdated, but I MadVR is the only low cost method I know now that can do this at present.... and only with a high end graphics card.

No, HD Fury Vertex 2 is just a matrix switch, which can spoof EDID. When the Vertex2 presents a Sony A1 TV's EDID to some players, they output LLDV, essentially doing dynamic tone mapping in the player, and then passing a HDR10 container to the Vertex2. So DV's dynamic tone mapping is done by the player, not the Vertex2 or the projector.

Oppo 203/205, Sony UHD players and Apple TV 4K, can also apply a form of DV dynamic tone mapping to HDR10 & SDR content using a built in algorithm before outputting LLDV. Essentially everything has DV type dynamic tone mapping applied, even 1080p Blu Ray.

Many other players like Amazon's Firestick 4K, some Nvidia Shield, some XBox and most recent UHD players, will also output LLDV when they detect a Sony A1 OLED TV.

So one is finally getting real Dolby Vision into the projector. While I can't completely appreciate the subtleties of DV's dynamic tone mapping over HDR10, the resulting picture is quite good. I am probably seeing more detail in scenes with high nit areas, but without an A/B comparison, I can't say for sure. On my projector LLDV is a little too saturated, probably reflecting the Sony A1 OLED's particular characteristics, but I can dial down the color to get what I want.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: sevenz on May 24, 2020, 16:00
No, HD Fury Vertex 2 is just a matrix switch, which can spoof EDID. When the Vertex2 presents a Sony A1 TV's EDID to some players, they output LLDV, essentially doing dynamic tone mapping in the player, and then passing a HDR10 container to the Vertex2. So DV's dynamic tone mapping is done by the player, not the Vertex2 or the projector.

Oppo 203/205, Sony UHD players and Apple TV 4K, can also apply a form of DV dynamic tone mapping to HDR10 & SDR content using a built in algorithm before outputting LLDV. Essentially everything has DV type dynamic tone mapping applied, even 1080p Blu Ray.

Many other players like Amazon's Firestick 4K, some Nvidia Shield, some XBox and most recent UHD players, will also output LLDV when they detect a Sony A1 OLED TV.

So one is finally getting real Dolby Vision into the projector. While I can't completely appreciate the subtleties of DV's dynamic tone mapping over HDR10, the resulting picture is quite good. I am probably seeing more detail in scenes with high nit areas, but without an A/B comparison, I can't say for sure. On my projector LLDV is a little too saturated, probably reflecting the Sony A1 OLED's particular characteristics, but I can dial down the color to get what I want.

wow, thanks for the layman explanation of this tsammyc. Very easy to understand. Now I can fully understand what and how.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 24, 2020, 23:06
Something I've just discovered and worth pointing out. Not sure whether it affects the Oppo player though...

Spot the difference in 2 versions of the HDR?
(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/meg_hdr2.JPG)
(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/meg_hdr_whdr.JPG)

The second screenshot is with Dolby Vision and HDR10 enabled in the player video settings while the first one is with the Dolby Vision option turned off.

Here's the one with LLDV
(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/meg_hdr_lldv.JPG)

If you are using Pioneer LX500 4K UHD bluray player, be careful when you decide to activate Dolby Vision in the setting. If you want to pass-through HDR properly in this player, you will need to turn off Dolby Vision so that the Vertex 2 can read the HDR10 layer correctly.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/lx500_hdr_dv_setting.JPG)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 23:14
Just tested 12k material, “above New York”

6000 nits content. No LLDV , pure HDR10, not bad also

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/86e8748f518ca83e67d5b6bc4b8d18ed.jpg)

Dark scenes ok


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 24, 2020, 23:26
Bro Roni, when you play the 4K mkv file with HDR/DV on your Oppo 203, does it playback in LLDV with the Vertex 2?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 23:31
Bro Roni, when you play the 4K mkv file with HDR/DV on your Oppo 203, does it playback in LLDV with the Vertex 2?


Yes it does. Except for the tekno3d files. I’m not sure why those files don’t kick in to LLDV, all others will


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Title: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 24, 2020, 23:37
Freaking stunning ! Like I have an 135 OLED at home . The demo materials from LG and Samsung is solid

Original files here https://drive.google.com/file/d/15NW6RqduW9q2Wg6HEeCZ_foh1i80mrpS/view?usp=sharing

Much better quality than uploaded on the ones below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/94da7cf2e812bab496688950b6d33f40.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/4e769a8672ae65cfaf406b627a0b455e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/2b4d620a086bdbb0d8844a60d2d37b1d.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/ed2ffc34c4aa988cb00a4adeb206f2bd.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/89f707ef2f78dba4ac904f0686e5e9b8.jpg)

Some posters to share

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/a0e78a5301c39d2cd9e78dec891ac1ab.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/97254ef0a53deee2fa0e2ab21340334a.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200524/dfa3cc8593222176511f076980be130e.jpg)

Ok I will not share anymore pics d... this is the last I promise...

Boy, just stunned when the picture comes on. That’s end game for me for PJ HDR for now until the next round... laser PJ


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 00:08

Yes it does. Except for the tekno3d files. I’m not sure why those files don’t kick in to LLDV, all others will


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ok thanks...the reason why the Tekno3d files don't kick is probably because it is not in DV but all authored in HDR10 with manipulation to the nit levels I guess. Damn...I need to find myself a used Oppo 203 in the secondary market now as I have many 4K mkv files in HDR/DV.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 25, 2020, 00:15

Ok I will not share anymore pics d... this is the last I promise...



Nooooooooooooo, please continue to share.  Thanks!

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 00:18
Here's the OSD layer from the LX500 showing Dolby Vision was active using the Vertex 2:

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/lx500_dv_osd.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/lx500_dv_osd2.JPG)

Here's more screenshot from the movie, Meg. I took using the iPad Pro camera. Sadly, the quality (have to compress it for ease of uploading) isn't anywhere near the actual image. As Meg has a relatively high MaxCLL/FALL: 4,000/1193 nits. Using LLDV does make the skin tone more natural.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/meg_hdr_maxcll_fall.PNG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/meg_lldv.JPG)




Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 25, 2020, 00:19
Ok thanks...the reason why the Tekno3d files don't kick is probably because it is not in DV but all authored in HDR10 with manipulation to the nit levels I guess. Damn...I need to find myself a used Oppo 203 in the secondary market now as I have many 4K mkv files in HDR/DV.

Yea the nits are altered, u r right. I played 10k nits material and fury showing 0 on MaxCLL and maxFALL. Seems like fury also not able to display that information
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 25, 2020, 00:22

Nooooooooooooo, please continue to share.  Thanks!

(Audio)

Haha, I thought I’m getting over excited and spamming... feel shy ☺️
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 25, 2020, 00:30
Haha, I thought I’m getting over excited and spamming... feel shy ☺️

I am stuck here in Hong Kong and would not be able to try the HD Fury until perhaps July.
I am very appreciative of all the posts and all the screenshots.  Keep it coming, you are doing a good service for us all.

(Audio) 
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 25, 2020, 00:33
I am stuck here in Hong Kong and would not be able to try the HD Fury until perhaps July.
I am very appreciative of all the posts and all the screenshots.  Keep it coming, you are doing a good service for us all.

(Audio)
Yes I agree. Have to continue to share!! Bro. Thank you for your support in advance! All items are kept with dehumidifier in my room for all these small items to keep away the humid. So don't worry ya! Wait for you July!!!

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 25, 2020, 09:25
Just keeping interested parties updated, the upcoming batches has arrived in SG, pending customs and tax clearance. Again it's earlier than expected .

Will reach out to you guys soon!

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 25, 2020, 10:28
I probably need to update the firmware but I’m not experiencing any issues so I’m not really keen to jinx things.

Thing is on the LED display on the unit itself, when I’m sending DV from my Oppo 203 or the AppleTV 4K, I see the characters DV in the input signal stream.

That’s why I am puzzled why the OSD that desray uses never shows the letters DV

I have disabled the onscreen display because I find the text annoying.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 10:33
I probably need to update the firmware but I’m not experiencing any issues so I’m not really keen to jinx things.

Thing is on the LED display on the unit itself, when I’m sending DV from my Oppo 203 or the AppleTV 4K, I see the characters DV in the input signal stream.

That’s why I am puzzled why the OSD that desray uses never shows the letters DV

I have disabled the onscreen display because I find the text annoying.

Yeah...if nothing wrong with your device, then probably no need to update. Having said that, there are many ways to confirm that the DV is in fact working - i.e some hex values that represent the metadata of the DV flag. I've also pointed out that there are even some changes implemented in the Web UI as well... It seems like DV tab is now separated from HDR tab.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 25, 2020, 11:34
Yeah...if nothing wrong with your device, then probably no need to update. Having said that, there are many ways to confirm that the DV is in fact working - i.e some hex values that represent the metadata of the DV flag. I've also pointed out that there are even some changes implemented in the Web UI as well... It seems like DV tab is now separated from HDR tab.
Even on the old one HDR was separate. I didn’t list it because it wasn’t used in the LLDV hack
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 11:37
Even on the old one HDR was separate. I didn’t list it because it wasn’t used in the LLDV hack
Noted.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 25, 2020, 13:20
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/02ba2b913ce900acf4375e88cc039c2b.jpg)

This is flagged as DV on mine.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 25, 2020, 16:42
I'm rewatching a lot of the Marvel series in Dolby Vision on my BenQ through the Amazon Firestick 4K. Just about all of the Star Wars and Marvel stuff on the Disney+ app is in Dolby Vision. Black Panther and Endgame had superb picture quality in DV.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 25, 2020, 16:45
This is flagged as DV on mine.

Our's says LLDV. Do you ever see LLDV?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 25, 2020, 17:30
I have just updated the firmware on mine. Long story.

Was going to experiment with different HDR settings presented to the LLDV source using the Automix and DV tabs today.

I normally use both HDMI Monitor out on my 8802A. Main output direct to the Sony projector (HDMI1) and Output 2 from the 8802A through the Vertex 2 to HDMI2 on the Sony.

This gives me a quick way of swapping between HDR and LLDV comparisons.

Switching between them worked fine but late in the tests, suddenly I got no signal from the Vertex 2.

I was worried it was the 8802A. So I powered down and swapped the Vertex and direct connection cables from 1 to 2 respectively. But the Sony still picked up the direct signal from Monitor 2. So that ruled out the 8802A. Phew

Now it looked like the Vertex 2 might be the problem.

I did a power cycle. Nada.

I did a factory reset via the web page. Nada.

Then for some reason the Vertex 2 kept trying to go to HDMI2 input. Even when I manually switch the input to HDMI0 or 1 or 3. I decided to plug the 8802A output to HDMI2 and voila picture appeared.

But no go on other inputs. All read - No signal.

At a loss, I finally updated the firmware.

Now all the inputs are working. Phew.

Hope this troubleshooting helps someone else later down the road.

But I’ll check the vertex 2 OLED display later when watching to see if the new firmware says LLDV or DV
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 25, 2020, 17:37
Oh discovered a new issue today. Not related to HDFury.

I thought the audio quality seemed to be a step down when I was playing Disney Plus.

So I finally pulled the flap down on the hidden display on the Marantz. And sure enough, the display shows : Multi Channel In + DD S

Normally I’d use the on screen display to see the audio info but I can’t get the overlay when the signal is in DV.

I checked the settings on AppleTV 4K and it shows Atmos On. And I also saw Atmos reported in the movie details in the Disney app.

Turned out Disney is turning down the video and audio quality in some areas to ease bandwidth demand. Damn.

While this isn’t an HDFury issue, I thought it was and trying to change the audio settings in the Vertex 2 web page to get it to work. Wasted a fair bit of time trying to go that. So hope this helps others encountering the same issues.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 19:08
Oh discovered a new issue today. Not related to HDFury.

I thought the audio quality seemed to be a step down when I was playing Disney Plus.

So I finally pulled the flap down on the hidden display on the Marantz. And sure enough, the display shows : Multi Channel In + DD S

Normally I’d use the on screen display to see the audio info but I can’t get the overlay when the signal is in DV.

I checked the settings on AppleTV 4K and it shows Atmos On. And I also saw Atmos reported in the movie details in the Disney app.

Turned out Disney is turning down the video and audio quality in some areas to ease bandwidth demand. Damn.

While this isn’t an HDFury issue, I thought it was and trying to change the audio settings in the Vertex 2 web page to get it to work. Wasted a fair bit of time trying to go that. So hope this helps others encountering the same issues.

Thanks for confirming this...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 19:09
I have just updated the firmware on mine. Long story.

Was going to experiment with different HDR settings presented to the LLDV source using the Automix and DV tabs today.

I normally use both HDMI Monitor out on my 8802A. Main output direct to the Sony projector (HDMI1) and Output 2 from the 8802A through the Vertex 2 to HDMI2 on the Sony.

This gives me a quick way of swapping between HDR and LLDV comparisons.

Switching between them worked fine but late in the tests, suddenly I got no signal from the Vertex 2.

I was worried it was the 8802A. So I powered down and swapped the Vertex and direct connection cables from 1 to 2 respectively. But the Sony still picked up the direct signal from Monitor 2. So that ruled out the 8802A. Phew

Now it looked like the Vertex 2 might be the problem.

I did a power cycle. Nada.

I did a factory reset via the web page. Nada.

Then for some reason the Vertex 2 kept trying to go to HDMI2 input. Even when I manually switch the input to HDMI0 or 1 or 3. I decided to plug the 8802A output to HDMI2 and voila picture appeared.

But no go on other inputs. All read - No signal.

At a loss, I finally updated the firmware.

Now all the inputs are working. Phew.

Hope this troubleshooting helps someone else later down the road.

But I’ll check the vertex 2 OLED display later when watching to see if the new firmware says LLDV or DV


So after update, what does your OSD display when playback DV?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 25, 2020, 23:44
Doggie and Roni, what are your settings for the HDR in your Oppo 203?
- Do you set HDR to "Auto" or "Dolby Vision"?
- Dolby Vision Processing - Do you select "Auto, TV-Led or Player-Led"?


I'm talking from Vertex 2 setup point of view. What is the best setting, if any?

And what firmware version are you on? Mine is 20XCN-60-0625 (Jul 2018). I know there is a newer firmware released in Feb 2019 which included the HDR10+ feature and DV by-pass for HDMI IN. Both I don't need it.

However I do encounter intermittent video signal loss every 20mins or so when I playback BD ISO from an external HDD. I wonder is this a "known bug"? I haven't really fully test out yet. The title that is giving me problem is the Bloodshot 4K BD ISO files. I wondered is it something to do with seamless branching issue here. But I can't be certain. Is there anything being mentioned in the AVSForum on this bug or is it just affecting BD ISO playback on external HDD? Any clue?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 00:30
HDR set to dolby vision, then choose player Led , don’t use TV LEd.

I’m on TW firmware, latest version 65-0131 Taiwan edition


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 00:57
I’ve just managed to complete the calibration for Apple TV 4K now.

Using the home sharing feature to mirror the content calibration files from laptop onto screen to proceed with calibration

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/e7aa95fe0d5bf02a262d199956b881af.jpg)

Immediately on the home page I can see the calibrated reference colours

With SDR content, I can use the isf day pic mode for Apple TV and keep isf night pic mode for Oppo 205. Unfortunately for HDR, I do not get to choose a second profile !! Arghhhhh

And it’s hugely disappointing not being able to calibrate for dolby vision on ATV4K

Here are some pics , these are played back from YouTube only

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/9cc414106d21980f7ed3c9bcf6162242.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/904122040591630abb6e08b2f4555643.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/b5c5b191c57abc979a26aa457fc28a4c.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/c1eb1a24b18c1156c4c906a20059db35.jpg)

The above in SDR . Now see the non calibrated version of HDR , what a big difference

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/fc71fd93361f97dded82c52601e1acec.jpg)

Without the ability to calibrate it, the colours look out. The gold doesn’t look like how it should on SDR. See the gold on SDR pic vs the gold on ATV4K, so much difference. Looks like I’ll have no choice , have to keep the settings for Oppo

Wait a min, unless I connect the ATV4K to the second hdmi on the BenQ . Oh but can’t, vertex has only 1 out for 4k... hmmm. Haiz if only the vertex2 has dual 4k hdmi out, then problem solved.

Each device is vastly different, I cannot use the same profile I had on Oppo on the Apple TV. Totally different set of calibration is required for each device


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 01:00
I was playing with settings also. I'm using NAS.. found out it can't play BDMV from NAS. Did a little experiment. Found out BDMV can only play via ext HDD.

Also mine can't "see" .iso file in any of the menu (network or movie)

My firmware running is UDP20x-65-0131

Tried playing hvec Wonder animation from NAS.. it hang for quite a bit. Other than that all other hvec mkvs are ok from NAS.

Kind of weird.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 26, 2020, 06:40
Doggie and Roni, what are your settings for the HDR in your Oppo 203?
- Do you set HDR to "Auto" or "Dolby Vision"?
- Dolby Vision Processing - Do you select "Auto, TV-Led or Player-Led"?


I set to Auto because I don’t want to up convert HDR10 to Dolby Vision

It has to be player led - ie LLDV.

I’m using the latest official Australian firmware.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 26, 2020, 06:43
I was playing with settings also. I'm using NAS.. found out it can't play BDMV from NAS. Did a little experiment. Found out BDMV can only play via ext HDD.

Also mine can't "see" .iso file in any of the menu (network or movie)

My firmware running is UDP20x-65-0131

Tried playing hvec Wonder animation from NAS.. it hang for quite a bit. Other than that all other hvec mkvs are ok from NAS.

Kind of weird.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk

Get a dedicated media player. Far more reliable. I think the new Zidoo or Zappiti are current favorites

If you want, you can pass it through the Oppo 20x. I believe it can upconvert to Dolby Vision.

I think there is a new SOC that will play Dolby Vision and HDR10+ but I haven’t seen any players announced with that chipset yet. I’d wait for that.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 26, 2020, 07:20
So after update, what does your OSD display when playback DV?

It shows LLDV on mine. I just didn’t see LLDV in your  earlier screenshots.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 07:37
I was playing with settings also. I'm using NAS.. found out it can't play BDMV from NAS. Did a little experiment. Found out BDMV can only play via ext HDD.

Also mine can't "see" .iso file in any of the menu (network or movie)

My firmware running is UDP20x-65-0131

Tried playing hvec Wonder animation from NAS.. it hang for quite a bit. Other than that all other hvec mkvs are ok from NAS.

Kind of weird.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk
Bro, your firmware is the last official firmware by Oppo Digital website. That's an international firmware. The one I'm using is a jailbreak version (released in Jun 2018, the penultimate official version with DV). I was told by the member that the JB update was performed by our member kelvinsin for a fee. I'm wondering whether he has the JB with the new official firmware (UDP20X-65-0131) incorporated.

I bought a used unit from one of the members here at a reasonable price and his one. The JB version can playback BD ISO without problem except for the problem I've described.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 07:39
I set to Auto because I don’t want to up convert HDR10 to Dolby Vision

It has to be player led - ie LLDV.

I’m using the latest official Australian firmware.
Thanks bro for the info. I read elsewhere that player - led is meant solely for Sony LLDV TV only. Is it applicable to Sony laser projector as well?

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 07:42
Get a dedicated media player. Far more reliable. I think the new Zidoo or Zappiti are current favorites

If you want, you can pass it through the Oppo 20x. I believe it can upconvert to Dolby Vision.

I think there is a new SOC that will play Dolby Vision and HDR10+ but I haven’t seen any players announced with that chipset yet. I’d wait for that.
Yes.. The latest Oppo firmware mentioned by winwinc81 does indeed include the DV pass through for HDMI In. I didn't think of using Zappiti to connect it to HDMI In of the Oppo to take advantage of the LLDV.

If I update it, I'll probably lose the jailbreak function to playback BD ISO.

Sent from my EVR-L29 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 07:45
It shows LLDV on mine. I just didn’t see LLDV in your  earlier screenshots.
Did a lot of screenshots with different settings the first time I tested it. The pics your saw back then was taken during my hasty 3 hours of playtime exploring every possible combinations of EDID I can play with. Taken many shots back then and I supposed I might have posted the wrong one. Nevertheless my experience same as yours and tsammyc for any LLDV capable source when playback.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 07:52
I’ve just managed to complete the calibration for Apple TV 4K now.

Using the home sharing feature to mirror the content calibration files from laptop onto screen to proceed with calibration

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/e7aa95fe0d5bf02a262d199956b881af.jpg)

Immediately on the home page I can see the calibrated reference colours

With SDR content, I can use the isf day pic mode for Apple TV and keep isf night pic mode for Oppo 205. Unfortunately for HDR, I do not get to choose a second profile !! Arghhhhh

And it’s hugely disappointing not being able to calibrate for dolby vision on ATV4K

Here are some pics , these are played back from YouTube only

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/9cc414106d21980f7ed3c9bcf6162242.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/904122040591630abb6e08b2f4555643.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/b5c5b191c57abc979a26aa457fc28a4c.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/c1eb1a24b18c1156c4c906a20059db35.jpg)

The above in SDR . Now see the non calibrated version of HDR , what a big difference

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200525/fc71fd93361f97dded82c52601e1acec.jpg)

Without the ability to calibrate it, the colours look out. The gold doesn’t look like how it should on SDR. See the gold on SDR pic vs the gold on ATV4K, so much difference. Looks like I’ll have no choice , have to keep the settings for Oppo

Wait a min, unless I connect the ATV4K to the second hdmi on the BenQ . Oh but can’t, vertex has only 1 out for 4k... hmmm. Haiz if only the vertex2 has dual 4k hdmi out, then problem solved.

Each device is vastly different, I cannot use the same profile I had on Oppo on the Apple TV. Totally different set of calibration is required for each device


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
First of all, Apple TV doesn't support 4K clips, let alone HDR ones... So don't waste your time. Apple refused to use VP9 codec which is the building block for all YouTube 4K HDR  content right now. Rumour has it that Apple and other tech giants are waiting for a new AV1 codecs which can do 4K and HDR for YouTube clips of sort which is royalty free.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 08:00
HDR set to dolby vision, then choose player Led , don’t use TV LEd.

I’m on TW firmware, latest version 65-0131 Taiwan edition


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Thks. Your setting slightly different from Doggie when it comes to HDR portion of the setting. I also using the same setting as you. I set the HDR setting to "Dolby Vision" and under DV option, I select Player-Led. So far no problem.

For the Oppo Taiwan firmware, are you able to playback BD ISO? I know International version can't. Mine has a "CN" appended in the firmware version and CN I suppose mean China ROM…???

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 08:46
Get a dedicated media player. Far more reliable. I think the new Zidoo or Zappiti are current favorites

If you want, you can pass it through the Oppo 20x. I believe it can upconvert to Dolby Vision.

I think there is a new SOC that will play Dolby Vision and HDR10+ but I haven’t seen any players announced with that chipset yet. I’d wait for that.
Thanks. Yup I have incoming shield 2019 for comparison.

Apparently my current 2017 shield don't do DV. When you say passthrough, what you mean? Use media player and connect to oppo's HDMI in, then out to AVR/AVP and then from there to vertex 2?

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 10:36
Win, if you want to upconvert HDR10 and SD sources to DV through the Vertex2, aside from Oppo and Sony, only the Apple TV 4K will do it.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 10:38
First of all, Apple TV doesn't support 4K clips, let alone HDR ones... So don't waste your time. Apple refused to use VP9 codec which is the building block for all YouTube 4K HDR  content right now. Rumour has it that Apple and other tech giants are waiting for a new AV1 codecs which can do 4K and HDR for YouTube clips of sort which is royalty free.

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But Netflix still comes on as dolby vision on certain content. Though the main page is displayed as 4k SDR.

That’s the only part I lose out for now. Other than that it’s fantastic for me now based on what I’m seeing on screen. For ATV4K, I prefer not to use dolby vision , since it cannot be calibrated using a secondary hdmi out .

There is a huge difference when the screen is calibrated vs non calibrated.

Can be seen from above the honey pictures, dolby vision is no magic if the screen cannot be calibrated. So not as significant the benefits if you have a vertex2 but cannot calibrate the screen.

The biggest benefit I find with the fury now is the ability to calibrate the HDR display in a more efficient manner that reflects closer reference colours

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/a9fd665a135f3f6e781c8752a68961d0.jpg)

This vertex2 manual is a bit confusing, here it is mentioned above, 4k HDR is using the TX0 downscale out

And here below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/2735e3dcc91197166795154ad314fd34.jpg)

Any 1080p, SDR or HDR only... , pretty confusing and contradictory

Anyone able to send HDR 4k through TX1 here (downscale HDMI ) ?


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 10:48

But Netflix still comes on as dolby vision on certain content. Though the main page is displayed as 4k SDR.

That’s the only part I lose out for now. Other than that it’s fantastic for me now based on what I’m seeing on screen. For ATV4K, I prefer not to use dolby vision , since it cannot be calibrated using a secondary hdmi out .


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Yes, Netflix app on Apple TV for LLDV no issue. This is the same for my NVidia Shield TV as well but at least the YouTube app on NVidia allows 4K playback albeit no HDR.


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Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 10:51
Thanks. Yup I have incoming shield 2019 for comparison.

Apparently my current 2017 shield don't do DV. When you say passthrough, what you mean? Use media player and connect to oppo's HDMI in, then out to AVR/AVP and then from there to vertex 2?

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Yes. Select Oppo Input either in your AVR or the Vertex 2 depending on how you connect. Then on Oppo 203, select HDMI Input to get image from The media player.

BTW I’m able to get 4K with HDR output from TX1 (4K downscaled). TX1 sink is copied from TX0 (4K upscaled). But in the Scaler tab, if you are using TX0, we need to uncheck TX0 no scaling to ensure 1080p content is upscaled to 4K.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 10:52
When I use 4k SDR on the ATV4K, the important aspect is to make sure match frame rate and match dynamic range is turned on. I’m not sure why ATV4K doesn’t turn this on automatically, even after firmware update, it sets it back to off! (Just updated firmware yesterday before calibration)

Using 4k SDR will Ensure the main page is displayed in the correct Color space.

But if Netflix supports dolby vision, ATV4K will match content and dynamic range and the PJ kicks in LLDV with HDR profile turned on

Whilst I can see and appreciate the benefits of dolby vision, the MOST IMPORTANT aspect is the ability to calibrate the screen to reflect a much more accurate picture with HDR based content. Once HDR mode is calibrated on the PJ, u will truly appreciate what dolby vision tone mapping is doing. Until that is done, I find it irrelevant if HDR or dolby vision kicks in, they both don’t look correct on screen, from what I’m seeing.

I’m not sure if this method of calibration will work with the rest of the pj, but this method sure does work with the BenQ from what I’m seeing.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 11:00
When I use 4k SDR on the ATV4K, the important aspect is to make sure match frame rate and match dynamic range is turned on. I’m not sure why ATV4K doesn’t turn this on automatically, even after firmware update, it sets it back to off! (Just updated firmware yesterday before calibration)

Using 4k SDR will Ensure the main page is displayed in the correct Color space.

But if Netflix supports dolby vision, ATV4K will match content and dynamic range and the PJ kicks in LLDV with HDR profile turned on

Whilst I can see and appreciate the benefits of dolby vision, the MOST IMPORTANT aspect is the ability to calibrate the screen to reflect a much more accurate picture with HDR based content. Once HDR mode is calibrated on the PJ, u will truly appreciate what dolby vision tone mapping is doing. Until that is done, I find it irrelevant if HDR or dolby vision kicks in, they both don’t look correct on screen, from what I’m seeing.

I’m not sure if this method of calibration will work with the rest of the pj, but this method sure does work with the BenQ from what I’m seeing.


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Yeah. Apple TV match frame rate and content have to be enabled to get DV. And yes you are right, these settings will turn off by itself occasionally, especially  after a firmware update.

There is one option in the video setting iirc (I’ve sold my Apple TV in favour for the NVidia Shield TV 2019). You may want to play around by forcing 4K HDR by default? This will make all things in HDR but it will kind of screw up the Color gamut for Netflix splash page which does not have HDR.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 11:10
Yeah. Apple TV match frame rate and content have to be enabled to get DV. And yes you are right, these settings will turn off by itself occasionally, especially  after a firmware update.

There is one option in the video setting iirc (I’ve sold my Apple TV in favour for the NVidia Shield TV 2019). You may want to play around by forcing 4K HDR by default? This will make all things in HDR but it will kind of screw up the Color gamut for Netflix splash page which does not have HDR.


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Oh Nvidia looks good also, I saw, quite promising. I got the ATV4K free from M1 for renewing the fiber line 2 years back. m1 really good, the year before that got 3x free mesh router! Lol, all the freebies

But I wanted to highlight to everyone the important aspect is the fury is not a plug and play stuff and that dolby vision is magical. It is NOT if it cannot be calibrated.

The example I have above clearly illustrates this. I had to pick for better accuracy HDR using Oppo. Sacrifice better HDR on ATV4K (hoping that downscale port is actually able to pass through 4k HDR now, will check with fury)

But vertex is good, it allows us to find a way to do it. At least much closer to the reference standard we are seeing on SDR rec709

Ps: I also noticed red is pushed higher with the dolby vision dynamic tone mapping engaged . I have to dial it down by quite a number to make things look more natural on screen.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 11:30
I see. Thanks. I have HDR and DV movies, waiting for Nvidia shield 2019. What now is only my sinks. Only SDR.

I'm using oppo HDR to SDR convert for now and it looks good. Haven't really try DV movies yet due to recent commitment... plus all my vertex 2 are out and wait for fresh batch... So nothing much to play per say.

Thanks for your input.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 12:38
I see. Thanks. I have HDR and DV movies, waiting for Nvidia shield 2019. What now is only my sinks. Only SDR.

I'm using oppo HDR to SDR convert for now and it looks good. Haven't really try DV movies yet due to recent commitment... plus all my vertex 2 are out and wait for fresh batch... So nothing much to play per say.

Thanks for your input.

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Bro, the first thing when you turned on your NVidia Shield TV 2019 / Pro 2019 connected to the Vertex 2 with Custom EDID @Sony A1 LLDV, you will get a prompt from NVdia Shield TV asking whether you want to turn on Dolby Vision. This is a clear sign that the new 2019 model supports DV out of the box. So it is very straight forward and almost hassle-free. The transition between HDR10 EDID and LLDV EDID in the Vertex 2 for Netflix App is effortless with no hiccups at all. It is a perfect match.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 12:44
Here's a screenshot comparing the HDR10 layer and the LLDV layer. You can see there is a very subtle difference. Pay attention to the car's tail light. The luminance of the red light emitted when in LLDV mode is more intense but at the same time preserves as much outline details as possible. Color rendition for both the HDR10 layer and the LLDV layer is almost negligible in this scene. But for flesh tone, the LLDV layer is much more natural-looking. The LLDV layer also wins in darker scenes but you need to calibrate your display to avoid any black crush. But in brighter scenes, HDR10 and LLDV comes in close, almost indistinguishable - probably Tsammyc can relate to that :P . If display not properly calibrated, you will find a slight to heavy "red-push" for LLDV layer presentation...again I think bro Roni can relate to that. :P

Screenshots from the movie, Bloodshot - captured using iPad Pro camera (downscaled to save bandwidth)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/bloodshot_lldv.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/bloodshot_hdr.JPG)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 26, 2020, 13:00
I see banding in the LLDV, the HDR seems to have less banding.  This is in reference to the red tail lights.

LLDV
(http://audio.sg/pic/banding-01.jpg)

HDR
(http://audio.sg/pic/banding-02.jpg)

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 13:00
If you are not sure whether the disc feature Dolby Vision or that the Vertex 2 is processing Dolby Vision (LLDV) from the source (Oppo 203). An easy way to check is to invoke the Display Info (Press the Display Info button for 3 secs). Scroll down to the last segment and you will see HDR Format and Colorspace displaying "Dolby Vision". If the HDR Format is showing "HDR10" while the Colorspace display "Dolby Vision", you will know that the disc or movie does not contain any DV flag.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/dv_osd1_bloodshot.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/dv_osd2_bloodshot.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/dv_osd3_bloodshot.JPG)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 13:03
I see banding in the LLDV, the HDR seems to have less banding.  This is in reference to the red tail lights.

(Audio)

Very astute observation there...I also notice that as well (hopefully not due to my image compression that is casuing it). But I do agree that that in some area/scene, the HDR10 layer has a cleaner look with less posterization which plagued Sony's SXRD laser projector when in HDR mode. I'm hoping Sony can release a firmware to fix that soon.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 13:11
Bro, the first thing when you turned on your NVidia Shield TV 2019 / Pro 2019 connected to the Vertex 2 with Custom EDID @Sony A1 LLDV, you will get a prompt from NVdia Shield TV asking whether you want to turn on Dolby Vision. This is a clear sign that the new 2019 model supports DV out of the box. So it is very straight forward and almost hassle-free. The transition between HDR10 EDID and LLDV EDID in the Vertex 2 for Netflix App is effortless with no hiccups at all. It is a perfect match.
Ok. So am I correct to assume that you place the vertex2 between your player source and AVP?

Cos I don't wanna lose the OSD from my AVP. I have plans to put it in between my sink (TV and future prj) and the AVP (marantz in this case) and in the video output settings I will use conversion but passthrough, means not upscaling or anything as shown below.

My method will still work right? Sorry I don't have anymore Vertex2 now to try if there will be a big diff.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/216df2f98a771b9c21983d364c6c920f.jpg)

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Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 13:13
Ok. So am I correct to assume that you place the vertex2 between your player source and AVP?

Cos I don't wanna lose the OSD from my AVP. I have plans to put it in between my sink (TV and future prj) and the AVP (marantz in this case) and in the video output settings I will use conversion but passthrough, means not upscaling or anything as shown below.

My method will still work right? Sorry I don't have anymore Vertex2 now to try if there will be a big diff.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/216df2f98a771b9c21983d364c6c920f.jpg)

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That’s right. My Vertex 2 is right in the middle of the video chain since day 1 as I need the OSD for my Denon X85000H.

And yes, you will need to enable Conversion but turn off I/p scaler.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 26, 2020, 13:18
....... in the video output settings I will use conversion but passthrough, means not upscaling or anything as shown below.

Err....why do you want video conversion to be on?  Shouldn't it be off?

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 13:18
Err....why do you want video conversion to be on?  Shouldn't it be off?

(Audio)

For OSD to work.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 13:21
That’s right. My Vertex 2 is right in the middle of the video chain since day 1 as I need the OSD for my Denon X85000H.

And yes, you will need to enable Conversion but turn off I/p scaler.


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Appreciate the reaffirmation bro

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 13:23
Err....why do you want video conversion to be on?  Shouldn't it be off?

(Audio)
Ya it's a Marantz Denon thingy.. kind of PITA to have it on just that you can see some display info on the OSD when you change some settings.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 13:35
That’s right. My Vertex 2 is right in the middle of the video chain since day 1 as I need the OSD for my Denon X85000H.

And yes, you will need to enable Conversion but turn off I/p scaler.


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so ya Vertex2 tx output to your Denon any of the 1 input right?

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 26, 2020, 13:36
Ya it's a Marantz Denon thingy.. kind of PITA to have it on just that you can see some display info on the OSD when you change some settings.

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You want HDMI pass through.....if you allow Denon to insert OSD, it will manipulate the output to insert OSD.  Not so "pass-through" wouldn't it?

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 13:39
You want HDMI pass through.....if you allow Denon to insert OSD, it will manipulate the output to insert OSD.  Not so "pass-through" wouldn't it?

(Audio)
This is what I have though initially. But then again, that is the only way to see the OSD.

Till date I am still unable to judge myself if it's just an overlay of the OSD with true passthrough or a "sub par" kind of passthrough. I do hope for the former though.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 14:33
The Video Conversion is needed because the OSD itself sports a lower resolution  (believe is 720p iirc) overlay. In order for the OSD to appear on say a higher resolution like 1080p or even 4K resolution (on your TV or Projector), it needs to do an internal video conversion in order for it to appear as an overlay on the display output (TV, PC monitor or Projector). If this is true, then yes it will probably mess up the display quality at the very instance you invoke the OSD but as soon as you exit, you will notice that the AVR will "blank out" signalling a reset to the display signal to enable proper pass through again. So in that sense, while not a perfect solution unless the OSD on the settings menu of the AVR itself is also displayed in true 4K resolution, we will have to enable Video Conversion to do that, sort of a compromise in exchange for convenience I guess. Ask ourselves how often do we need to access the AVR settings menu? Probably only during Audyssey calibration or doing some changes on the fly to the crossover, levels etc.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 16:05
**Received and sharing a mailer**

While all newer sources are all capable to output DV and LLDV, some olders ones might be limited to DV, below is a current list of sources capable to output LLDV.

List of sources capable of LLDV output for any DV content:
–  Sony Players (UBP-X700, UBP-X800/M2, UBP-X1100ES …)
– Apple TV 4K
– Shield Pro
– Xbox One X/S 
– Panasonic UB820/UB9000
– Oppo 203/205
– Fire Stick/Fire Cube (Netflix/ATV App)
– Chromecast (Netflix)

List of sources capable of LLDV output for DV, HDR10 and SDR content:
– Oppo203/205
– Apple TV 4K
– Sony UBP-X700, UBP-X800/M2

This method can be performed on any HDR10 display using Vertex2/Diva or Maestro. If you own a JVC PJ with custom gamma curve or if you have a PJ that can be manually forced in HDR mode, then you can perform this method using Vertex1, Integral2 and Linker as well.

To get started, we recommend reading both linked threads at the beginning of this post as well as the following guide:
Vertex2 setup guide by user Vollans on AVSforum.

[http://mobile-webview]

Thanx to power user Claw from AVSforum who posted the below info and links:

Options are listed in introduction date order. They are useful to those that don’t want to create their own custom LLDV EDID or create their own color profile in their display device. Don’t mix and match them.

 

1 – Custom Sony A1 LLDV EDID 5 in combination with Dominic’s A1 custom color profile for JVC. This was the first solution that reduced the red tint we saw when using the A1 LLDV EDID 5. JVC projectors only.

JVC custom A1 color profile download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581466297

Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf

 

2 – Mark’s custom BT2020 EDID in combination with BT2020 color profile in any display. This is a good option for those that don’t want to mess with color profiles in your display. Every HDR display should include a BT2020 color proflle.

Custom BT2020 EDID download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581851932

 

3 – Diva/Vertex2/Maestro Automix mode default DV data block with DCI-P3 primaries combined with a DCI-P3 color profile. This option provides the capability to customize the DV data block field values from the defaults if you have one of the new HDfury devices.

Manni’s JVC-only custom DCI-P3 color profile download link for JVC models that don’t have a built-in DCI-P3 profile:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…0&d=1506168265

Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf

 

4 – Mark’s custom DCI-P3 EDID in combination with a DCI-P3 color profile. This is a good option for those who have an older HDfury device but want to use a DCI-P3 color profile.

Download link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1584451347



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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 16:17
Wait a min, unless I connect the ATV4K to the second hdmi on the BenQ . Oh but can’t, vertex has only 1 out for 4k... hmmm. Haiz if only the vertex2 has dual 4k hdmi out, then problem solved.

The Vertex2 has three HDMI outputs. TX0 and TX1 both support 4K. TX3 is the 1080p audio output. So you can connect two cables and separately calibrate BenQ's HDMI2 input for the ATV4K
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 16:34
Any 1080p, SDR or HDR only... , pretty confusing and contradictory

Anyone able to send HDR 4k through TX1 here (downscale HDMI ) ?

I think what HDFury is saying here is the if you want to output the same content simultaneously to two HDMI outputs i.e. splitter mode, then you have to connect TX0 to the 4K device and TX1 to the 1080p device. Splitter mode is often used by gamers who want to record their game onto a 1080p recording device, while playing in 4K. But that's not what we are trying to do here.

You will be using the Vertex2 in matrix mode. In matrix mode, as far as I know, there is no restriction on you outputting 4K through TX1 to the second HDMI input of the BenQ
Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:03
I think what HDFury is saying here is the if you want to output the same content simultaneously to two HDMI outputs i.e. splitter mode, then you have to connect TX0 to the 4K device and TX1 to the 1080p device. Splitter mode is often used by gamers who want to record their game onto a 1080p recording device, while playing in 4K. But that's not what we are trying to do here.

You will be using the Vertex2 in matrix mode. In matrix mode, as far as I know, there is no restriction on you outputting 4K through TX1 to the second HDMI input of the BenQ
Tsammyc is spot on in his explanation. For splitter mode, Vertex 2 can copy the sink EDID of the Display connected to TX0 to TX1. If both displays shared the same capabilities like 4K, HDR10, HDCP2.2 and the likes, you can use Splitter mode like I did for my Projector (TX0) and my Samsung 4K monitor (TX1).

@winwinc81, this is how I connect my Vertex 2 with just one HDMI cable to Input 0 while TX0 goes to my Sony laser projector and TX1 goes to my Samsung 4K monitor which I used as a secondary display for casual viewing or doing calibration for my AVR. Don’t mind the messy cables in the pic.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/4a5e5bb71311c595d482dc2b1613b11b.jpg)


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 26, 2020, 17:14
Tsammyc is spot on in his explanation. For splitter mode, Vertex 2 can copy the sink EDID of the Display connected to TX0 to TX1. If both displays shared the same capabilities like 4K, HDR10, HDCP2.2 and the likes, you can use Splitter mode like I did for my Projector (TX0) and my Samsung 4K monitor (TX1).

@winwinc81, this is how I connect my Vertex 2 with just one HDMI cable to Input 0 while TX0 goes to my Sony laser projector and TX1 goes to my Samsung 4K monitor which I used as a secondary display for casual viewing or doing calibration for my AVR. Don’t mind the messy cables in the pic.


You meant the matrix mode, didn't you?   (So confusing)

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 17:18
Tsammyc is spot on in his explanation. For splitter mode, Vertex 2 can copy the sink EDID of the Display connected to TX0 to TX1. If both displays shared the same capabilities like 4K, HDR10, HDCP2.2 and the likes, you can use Splitter mode like I did for my Projector (TX0) and my Samsung 4K monitor (TX1).

@winwinc81, this is how I connect my Vertex 2 with just one HDMI cable to Input 0 while TX0 goes to my Sony laser projector and TX1 goes to my Samsung 4K monitor which I used as a secondary display for casual viewing or doing calibration for my AVR. Don’t mind the messy cables in the pic.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/4a5e5bb71311c595d482dc2b1613b11b.jpg)


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Sweet! With picture somemore. Gam xia.

So your input from that single cable is from the Denon output, and your Xbox, oppo, shield output is to your Denon input respective HDMI correct?

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 17:23
You meant the matrix mode, didn't you?   (So confusing)

(Audio)
Ya I think he meant matrix mode. Matrix copy edid

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Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:25
You meant the matrix mode, didn't you?   (So confusing)

(Audio)
No. Splitter mode. From source feed to the Input of Vertex 2 and the Vertex 2 will “split” the signal across to 2 different display outputs. It can be your 4K Projector and a 4K TV. If you have a 4K Projector but the other display is say just a 1080p PC monitor, you can use the Matrix mode which send a video signal to the respective display without compromise. For instance, assume your Denon AVR (X8500H) has 2 Monitor Outputs. You can connect 2 hdmi cables from the AVR and connect to Input 0 and Input 1 In the web UI, just select TX0 take signal from Input 0 and TX1 take signal from Input 1. Each display output will run in its optimised mode because each has its own EDID sink.

Hope not too confusing? LoL. I think Tsammyc explanation much clearer. If you able to understand what he’s saying, then don’t let mine confuse you.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:26
Sweet! With picture somemore. Gam xia.

So your input from that single cable is from the Denon output, and your Xbox, oppo, shield output is to your Denon input respective HDMI correct?

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Correct bro. Literally just one HDMI cable will do. As simple as that.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 17:28
No. Splitter mode. From source feed to the Input of Vertex 2 and the Vertex 2 will “split” the signal across to 2 different display outputs. It can be your 4K Projector and a 4K TV. If you have a 4K Projector but the other display is say just a 1080p PC monitor, you can use the Matrix mode which send a video signal to the respective display without compromise. For instance, assume your Denon AVR (X8500H) has 2 Monitor Outputs. You can connect 2 hdmi cables from the AVR and connect to Input 0 and Input 2. In the web UI, just select TX0 take signal from Input 0 and TX1 take signal from Input 1. Each display output will run in its optimised mode because each has its own EDID sink.


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Ohhhh

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 17:30
Correct bro. Literally just one HDMI cable will do. As simple as that.


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Thanks once again. Ya this way will see OSD, well if you choose to do so that is...

Im so used to the OSD already and hardly go without it. I need to see the vol go up and occasionally check the info to make sure the channels are active lol

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Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:33
Thanks once again. Ya this way will see OSD, well if you choose to do so that is...

Im so used to the OSD already and hardly go without it. I need to see the vol go up and occasionally check the info to make sure the channels are active lol

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Alternatively, u can download the Denon AVR app to see whats going on to your AVR and make changes on the fly via your mobile app. It’s handy if you decide to use a different connection method.

This is the app (Denon AVR Remote) I’m talking about.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/2519493a443a47a0892bbfafc7a5b66d.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/1e2227521cf2cf8841848e15d2122296.jpg)


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 17:34
Alternatively, u can download the Denon AVR app to see whats going on to your AVR and make changes on the fly via your mobile app. It’s handy if you decide to use a different connection method.


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Ha wow, I din think of that!!!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:41
Ha wow, I din think of that!!!

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I also recommend the Oppo Media Control app for the Oppo BDP-203 as well. It’s free and literally can put your remote controller aside.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/2f10b62830f847857ecce539af8c13d2.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/e954876dc9c145ebe2d633f8b5f9532b.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/8cea13e8811846a2f6396c2646609a79.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/16bcf3385f70c9807f3b64846c8bd331.jpg)

All at your finger tips. No need to hit the Home button or back button to go to the settings you want. Just browse from your app will do.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on May 26, 2020, 17:45
No. Splitter mode. From source feed to the Input of Vertex 2 and the Vertex 2 will “split” the signal across to 2 different display outputs. It can be your 4K Projector and a 4K TV.

Right, your FD Fury split your source signal from input 0 but it is not operating in the splitter mode because T1 is suppose to be at 4K.  It need to be in Matrix mode to operate at 4K.   In Splitter Mode, your TX1 will be feeding a 1080 signal to your 4K TV. 

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:52
Right, your FD Fury split your source signal from input 0 but it is not operating in the splitter mode because T1 is suppose to be at 4K.  It need to be in Matrix mode to operate at 4K.   In Splitter Mode, your TX1 will be feeding a 1080 signal to your 4K TV. 

(Audio)
Yes. It can also be in that way. Preferably both display output will have the same specs and features to avoid any possible screw up to the signal. Vertex 2 should be able to “intelligently” send the appropriate signal but sometimes and I say sometimes although both display works (image appears), there are something that we can’t get it to work.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 26, 2020, 17:53
Thanks bro for the info. I read elsewhere that player - led is meant solely for Sony LLDV TV only. Is it applicable to Sony laser projector as well?

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LLDV is just another term for player led Dolby Vision.

I think Sony didn’t have enough processing power to handle DV processing the way it was done on LG displays.

It first appeared on the A1 though it works with other Sony DV implementations. The HDFury guys just used A1 as a shorthand for LLDV.

From the results we are seeing with all our projectors including non Sony ones it does seem that LLDV aka player led Dolby Vision works by the display handshaking with the player with the right attributes. The number of bits of the display etc etc and setting the LLDV flag.

The player then does the Dolby Vision dynamic tone mapping to match the displays range. And the display just reproduces the HDR10 image that has been dynamically adjusted.

With Sony we tend to use 1000 nits because their  HDR Reference mode has a good curve for 1000 nits
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 17:58
LLDV is just another term for player led Dolby Vision.

I think Sony didn’t have enough processing power to handle DV processing the way it was done on LG displays.

It first appeared on the A1 though it works with other Sony DV implementations. The HDFury guys just used A1 as a shorthand for LLDV.

From the results we are seeing with all our projectors including non Sony ones it does seem that LLDV aka player led Dolby Vision works by the display handshaking with the player with the right attributes. The number of bits of the display etc etc and setting the LLDV flag.

The player then does the Dolby Vision dynamic tone mapping to match the displays range. And the display just reproduces the HDR10 image that has been dynamically adjusted.

With Sony we tend to use 1000 nits because their  HDR Reference mode has a good curve for 1000 nits

Agreed fully. It’s worth pointing out that your display will not miraculously take in DV but rather it is the player that does all the DTM and send it over to the Projector (still only able to accept HDR10) except the picture quality will be vastly improved with the LLDV.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 26, 2020, 18:07
Agreed fully. It’s worth pointing out that your display will not miraculously take in DV but rather it is the player that does all the DTM and send it over to the Projector (still only able to accept HDR10) except the picture quality will be vastly improved with the LLDV.


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Which is exactly how LLDV works even in officially licensed displays like the A1 ZD9
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 18:48
LLDV is just another term for player led Dolby Vision.

I think Sony didn’t have enough processing power to handle DV processing the way it was done on LG displays.

It first appeared on the A1 though it works with other Sony DV implementations. The HDFury guys just used A1 as a shorthand for LLDV.

From the results we are seeing with all our projectors including non Sony ones it does seem that LLDV aka player led Dolby Vision works by the display handshaking with the player with the right attributes. The number of bits of the display etc etc and setting the LLDV flag.

The player then does the Dolby Vision dynamic tone mapping to match the displays range. And the display just reproduces the HDR10 image that has been dynamically adjusted.

With Sony we tend to use 1000 nits because their  HDR Reference mode has a good curve for 1000 nits

It seems to work best on my BenQ projector set to 1000 nits as well. I tried various settings from 125-10,000.

LLDV is Low Latency Dolby Vision. It was apparently originally designed for gamers, so that a more powerful processor on the gaming rig would generate a low latency signal for the display.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 19:21
When I use 4k SDR on the ATV4K, the important aspect is to make sure match frame rate and match dynamic range is turned on. I’m not sure why ATV4K doesn’t turn this on automatically, even after firmware update, it sets it back to off! (Just updated firmware yesterday before calibration)

I just hooked up my Apple TV 4K to the Vertex2. If you turn Dolby Vision to ON and match frame rate to OFF, the Apple TV will convert everything to Dolby Vision at the specified frame rate. The User Interface, Menus... everything. The key benefit is that it applies Dolby Vision to SDR, HDR10... everything. The input to the Vertex becomes permanently 12 bit LLDV at the set frame rate and never changes no matter what you do on the Apple TV. This is basically equivalent to Player led on the Oppo except that it applies it to the user interface as well. There are two key advantages:

1. Applying Apple/Dolby algorithm to HDR10 content (and SDR etc) can improve tone mapping. I'm not one to judge, but many people on AVS forums seem to like it, just like many like the Oppo's up conversion (with player led) as well.
2. It avoids the annoying mode switching on the device. The BenQ takes ages to switch to HDR and back with all sorts of clicking noises and occasionally, I will get a split screen artifact, which requires me to do the process again. With match frame rate OFF, everything is instantaneous because all content is converted to whatever the Apple TV is set to and there is no need for the BenQ to switch. I like this very much.

There are some disadvantage:

1. The key one is that movies shot with a 24fps frame rate are translated to 60fps. According to some people, this removes the film like effect. Looks pretty much the same to me as I'm less discerning. Obviously its perfect for documentary video which is often shot at 60fps.
2. The Apple user interface and menus look terrible in DV. Washed out. However, they are still perfectly usable and there is a big benefit to reducing the mode switching.

If you are still concerned about the 24fps to 60fps conversion, you can create a custom 4K 24fps setting for the Apple TV. Everything will be converted to DV, 4K, 24fps. So movies will go back to their natural frame rate, but video shot at 60fps, will get that 24fps "movie look" ;D
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 19:59
The Vertex2 has three HDMI outputs. TX0 and TX1 both support 4K. TX3 is the 1080p audio output. So you can connect two cables and separately calibrate BenQ's HDMI2 input for the ATV4K


Tsammy thanks !! The reason why I didn’t want to test is there are so many cables fitted behind ! now that I have confirmation, I can wire up the necessary connection

You are spot on! I’ve just got confirmation from HD Fury directly! Woo hoo!! I can now calibrate Apple TV 4K LLDV ! 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/eac82bbf7d3d3be03de9caf194ac4a4b.jpg)


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 20:12
I just hooked up my Apple TV 4K to the Vertex2. If you turn Dolby Vision to ON and match frame rate to OFF, the Apple TV will convert everything to Dolby Vision at the specified frame rate. The User Interface, Menus... everything. The key benefit is that it applies Dolby Vision to SDR, HDR10... everything. The input to the Vertex becomes permanently 12 bit LLDV at the set frame rate and never changes no matter what you do on the Apple TV. This is basically equivalent to Player led on the Oppo except that it applies it to the user interface as well. There are two key advantages:

1. Applying Apple/Dolby algorithm to HDR10 content (and SDR etc) can improve tone mapping. I'm not one to judge, but many people on AVS forums seem to like it, just like many like the Oppo's up conversion (with player led) as well.
2. It avoids the annoying mode switching on the device. The BenQ takes ages to switch to HDR and back with all sorts of clicking noises and occasionally, I will get a split screen artifact, which requires me to do the process again. With match frame rate OFF, everything is instantaneous because all content is converted to whatever the Apple TV is set to and there is no need for the BenQ to switch. I like this very much.

There are some disadvantage:

1. The key one is that movies shot with a 24fps frame rate are translated to 60fps. According to some people, this removes the film like effect. Looks pretty much the same to me as I'm less discerning. Obviously its perfect for documentary video which is often shot at 60fps.
2. The Apple user interface and menus look terrible in DV. Washed out. However, they are still perfectly usable and there is a big benefit to reducing the mode switching.

If you are still concerned about the 24fps to 60fps conversion, you can create a custom 4K 24fps setting for the Apple TV. Everything will be converted to DV, 4K, 24fps. So movies will go back to their natural frame rate, but video shot at 60fps, will get that 24fps "movie look" ;D


Thanks tsammy ! Very helpful again. Now that I can connect to a second hdmi, I’ll take this path. I prefer to keep SDR without up converting it. And all HDR into LLDV. I think LLDV at 1000 also looks good. Somehow the tone mapping seems to be adjusting it nicely, I must say I don’t have that eye fatigue as well when I push it up higher. I’m more or less done, left this one final step to dial in Apple TV for HDR mode




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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 26, 2020, 20:36
I just hooked up my Apple TV 4K to the Vertex2. If you turn Dolby Vision to ON and match frame rate to OFF, the Apple TV will convert everything to Dolby Vision at the specified frame rate. The User Interface, Menus... everything. The key benefit is that it applies Dolby Vision to SDR, HDR10... everything. The input to the Vertex becomes permanently 12 bit LLDV at the set frame rate and never changes no matter what you do on the Apple TV. This is basically equivalent to Player led on the Oppo except that it applies it to the user interface as well. There are two key advantages:

1. Applying Apple/Dolby algorithm to HDR10 content (and SDR etc) can improve tone mapping. I'm not one to judge, but many people on AVS forums seem to like it, just like many like the Oppo's up conversion (with player led) as well.
2. It avoids the annoying mode switching on the device. The BenQ takes ages to switch to HDR and back with all sorts of clicking noises and occasionally, I will get a split screen artifact, which requires me to do the process again. With match frame rate OFF, everything is instantaneous because all content is converted to whatever the Apple TV is set to and there is no need for the BenQ to switch. I like this very much.

There are some disadvantage:

1. The key one is that movies shot with a 24fps frame rate are translated to 60fps. According to some people, this removes the film like effect. Looks pretty much the same to me as I'm less discerning. Obviously its perfect for documentary video which is often shot at 60fps.
2. The Apple user interface and menus look terrible in DV. Washed out. However, they are still perfectly usable and there is a big benefit to reducing the mode switching.

If you are still concerned about the 24fps to 60fps conversion, you can create a custom 4K 24fps setting for the Apple TV. Everything will be converted to DV, 4K, 24fps. So movies will go back to their natural frame rate, but video shot at 60fps, will get that 24fps "movie look" ;D
Nice nice nice!! Those who will be getting their hands on the vertex2 soon will 101% benefit from this thread! Lots of testing, trial and error to find the perfect icing on the cake!

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 20:54

Thanks tsammy ! Very helpful again. Now that I can connect to a second hdmi, I’ll take this path. I prefer to keep SDR without up converting it. And all HDR into LLDV. I think LLDV at 1000 also looks good. Somehow the tone mapping seems to be adjusting it nicely, I must say I don’t have that eye fatigue as well when I push it up higher. I’m more or less done, left this one final step to dial in Apple TV for HDR mode




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Before you commit to not up converting, do try the system with match frame rate to OFF. For me, after experiencing how quick the user interface was switching in and out between SDR and HDR, where the BenQ is quite slow, there was no turning back. It's like driving a sports car instead of a minivan.

I'll ask doggie to confirm in another message, but I think the DV output from the ATV4K is about as good as the Panny 820 on its HDR optimizer. It may be the best platform to use Netflix & Prime and to watch digital copy movies. A pity because I only have one ATV4K and my wife uses it a lot so I can't use it with my projector for too long. A new ATV is apparently about to be announced so I'm not going to buy another yet.

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 26, 2020, 21:08
Doggie, can you compare the Panny 820 with HDR Optimizer & ATV4K on DV with same movies. I tried UHD Blu Rays on my Panny 820 hooked up directly to my BenQ W2700 against the ATV4K iTunes store movies. With Alita for example, there is a lot of bright detail, especially in the beginning where the doctor is digging through the junkyard.

I thought that both were quite equivalent in the specular highlight detail on my projector. These days there are so many ways to watch the exact same stuff. iTunes store, Amazon Prime, Movies Anywhere etc. After spending today fiddling with the ATV4K and LLDV, I'm starting to think that its the best platform to watch Netflix and bought movies e.g. digital copies. With the added advantage the it converts SDR and HDR to DV. Overall it does look better than my $50 (I actually bought it for $25 on Black Friday) Amazon Firestick 4K. But the Firestick is still necessary to watch alll the US content, Sling TV, Disney+ because of its built in VPN and overall still produces excellent quality & sharpness.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 26, 2020, 23:03

Excellent End User Support by HDFury

Just got off from HDFury support from Discord. I am super impressed by their knowledge and conviction to render support to their customers. My Vertex 2 will randomly reboot itself on a few occasions since I got it. I'm not sure what is the issue here but it could be a power supply (unstable) issue. Along the way, I also learnt from HDFury that our phones and even some of the remote controller are putting out IR signals randomly which might cause the VErtex to have erratically. The most absurd one is iPhone FaceID Unlock and even some Android phone as well. I will switch my power supply unit to use the 3-pin type and see if it helps...if not, HDFury is kind enough to ship a new unit to me. Hopefully I will not need to take that route.

During the conversation, HDFury sent me a new firmware to try out. Some changes to the EDID profile as well. Now my version is at 0.54. I will try swapping out the 2-pin to 3-pin plug tmr evening to see if my unit still suffer from the random reboot.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 23:05
Post calibration for appletv 4k

Now it’s where I want it to be , Dolby rulessss

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/1fd0bb8728711f1e6a9ec90351b2992c.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/71c70faa461fbc3fbf5144d3d5500b96.jpg)

Now I’m very happy with ATV4K and Oppo 205 for HDR on the BenQ


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2020, 23:21
Before you commit to not up converting, do try the system with match frame rate to OFF. For me, after experiencing how quick the user interface was switching in and out between SDR and HDR, where the BenQ is quite slow, there was no turning back. It's like driving a sports car instead of a minivan.

I'll ask doggie to confirm in another message, but I think the DV output from the ATV4K is about as good as the Panny 820 on its HDR optimizer. It may be the best platform to use Netflix & Prime and to watch digital copy movies. A pity because I only have one ATV4K and my wife uses it a lot so I can't use it with my projector for too long. A new ATV is apparently about to be announced so I'm not going to buy another yet.


I like what I’m seeing setting the MaxCLL back to 1000, on the ATV4K now. It’s fantastic after calibration, I use the movie extraction to test dolby vision. Seems good post calibration. Colours are poppin up nicely and damn what a significant difference post calibration, all the colours seems back to its natural colours and looks so much more natural

I can’t mix the Oppo settings with ATV4K, it’s totally different quality . Connecting to each seperately has yielded better results so far. Can’t believe I’m seeing the old dramas look so good.

Previously I was struggling to watch it in dolby vision on the “dynasty drama”, now it looks so much much more natural


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 27, 2020, 00:40
Excellent End User Support by HDFury

Just got off from HDFury support from Discord. I am super impressed by their knowledge and conviction to render support to their customers. My Vertex 2 will randomly reboot itself on a few occasions since I got it. I'm not sure what is the issue here but it could be a power supply (unstable) issue. Along the way, I also learnt from HDFury that our phones and even some of the remote controller are putting out IR signals randomly which might cause the VErtex to have erratically. The most absurd one is iPhone FaceID Unlock and even some Android phone as well. I will switch my power supply unit to use the 3-pin type and see if it helps...if not, HDFury is kind enough to ship a new unit to me. Hopefully I will not need to take that route.

During the conversation, HDFury sent me a new firmware to try out. Some changes to the EDID profile as well. Now my version is at 0.54. I will try swapping out the 2-pin to 3-pin plug tmr evening to see if my unit still suffer from the random reboot.

let me know your nick when communicating with them. new batch arriving these 2 days and if need to we'll do the exchange. i will settle the issue with them. PM me if you deem necessary.  ;)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 27, 2020, 06:27
let me know your nick when communicating with them. new batch arriving these 2 days and if need to we'll do the exchange. i will settle the issue with them. PM me if you deem necessary.  ;)
Thanks bro.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 27, 2020, 11:21
Post calibration for appletv 4k

Now it’s where I want it to be , Dolby rulessss

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/1fd0bb8728711f1e6a9ec90351b2992c.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/71c70faa461fbc3fbf5144d3d5500b96.jpg)

Now I’m very happy with ATV4K and Oppo 205 for HDR on the BenQ


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I don't know if you are overthinking things.

You have done a calibration of your projector in HDR, right?

If you know the values of the range of colors for the primaries that your projector is capable of, you can key in those values in the Vertex 2.

The idea is that the LLDV (player led) source will use it to determine how to remap the Dolby Vision meta data to your display's capabilities.

Your display is still only reproducing HDR10. Not Dolby Vision meta data. That's all been processed/implemented by the player before sending the HDR10 information to your display.

All the Vertex 2 does is spoof to the source that it is doing all the hard work for processing.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 27, 2020, 16:27
Yes correct, calibrating it when LLDV kicks in and the PJ switches to HDR mode. Yes I know the pj is only capable for HDR not dolby vision . I’m taking advantage of the LLDV tone mapping curve in use to calibrate the display using SDR material in rec709  colour space

If it is not calibrated with just the primary colours entered,  when the HDR mode kicks in on the pj, it doesn’t look natural at all. It will look over saturated

We still need to dial in the correct white balance on the PJ itself, and the colours. Dolby vision won’t do this. So essentially what I’m doing that seems to be working wonders now is to inject the metadata in the signal chain, so the PJ kicks in to HDR mode, then calibrate the system normally as we would on SDR material by having LLDV tone mapping curve in place

This method for calibrating HDR seems to be working beautifully . The post calibrated results seems to be quite satisfactory

This is the biggest benefit I find with the fury now for my case. Because after using this method for calibrating HDR, even native HDR content looks much more natural
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 27, 2020, 16:37
Here is what I have done,

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/6f7343dafeb57e8c084649d29969f5a6.jpg)

You can see from above, the target curve for dolby vision, on chromapure

Above 50% grayscale, dynamic tone mapping has taken over, and below 50% grayscale, I try to match them RGB up to as close as possible , across the range, you will notice it is much more balanced after the calibration and delta errors are less than 2

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/78ff8d8b951d8e4b4efebec80f1f9b7f.jpg)

Next I calibrate the colours to 75% intensity and 75% saturation, using SDR material but with LLDV tone mapping curve engaged

The results are this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/8b2fdcfebeddf084d1bd9ab1aad66e24.jpg)

Vs non calibrated, but still uses LLDV with Pj in HDR10 mode

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/83e16f2f743bc43da5277f7d61a3e961.jpg)

That is the biggest benefit using the fury in my case. Somehow using this method for HDR calibration is working very nicely

They look so much better.

The same process can be done, by injecting a HDR metadata in the signal path  as well


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 27, 2020, 17:26
Here is what I have done,

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/6f7343dafeb57e8c084649d29969f5a6.jpg)

You can see from above, the target curve for dolby vision, on chromapure

Above 50% grayscale, dynamic tone mapping has taken over, and below 50% grayscale, I try to match them RGB up to as close as possible , across the range, you will notice it is much more balanced after the calibration and delta errors are less than 2

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/78ff8d8b951d8e4b4efebec80f1f9b7f.jpg)

Next I calibrate the colours to 75% intensity and 75% saturation, using SDR material but with LLDV tone mapping curve engaged

The results are this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/8b2fdcfebeddf084d1bd9ab1aad66e24.jpg)

Vs non calibrated, but still uses LLDV with Pj in HDR10 mode

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200527/83e16f2f743bc43da5277f7d61a3e961.jpg)

That is the biggest benefit using the fury in my case. Somehow using this method for HDR calibration is working very nicely

They look so much better.

The same process can be done, by injecting a HDR metadata in the signal path  as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Good job. 


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 27, 2020, 17:36
Yes correct, calibrating it when LLDV kicks in and the PJ switches to HDR mode. Yes I know the pj is only capable for HDR not dolby vision . I’m taking advantage of the LLDV tone mapping curve in use to calibrate the display using SDR material in rec709  colour space

If it is not calibrated with just the primary colours entered,  when the HDR mode kicks in on the pj, it doesn’t look natural at all. It will look over saturated

We still need to dial in the correct white balance on the PJ itself, and the colours. Dolby vision won’t do this. So essentially what I’m doing that seems to be working wonders now is to inject the metadata in the signal chain, so the PJ kicks in to HDR mode, then calibrate the system normally as we would on SDR material by having LLDV tone mapping curve in place

This method for calibrating HDR seems to be working beautifully . The post calibrated results seems to be quite satisfactory

This is the biggest benefit I find with the fury now for my case. Because after using this method for calibrating HDR, even native HDR content looks much more natural
Yes, what you did is correct. You need to calibrate for both SDR and HDR picture settings and saved it in different preset of your TV/Projector. For HDR, you actually only need to calibrate for HDR10 using Chromapure at DCI-P3 with 75% Color intensity (Saturation) without the need to forced the display in LLDV mode. The DV component will expand the color gamut wider but still within the BT2020 color spectrum.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 27, 2020, 18:41
I did test the forced Dolby Vision upconvert when the Oppo first introduced the option with my Dolby Vision TVs. And didn’t really like it. That’s why I never enabled that option.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 28, 2020, 09:39
I did test the forced Dolby Vision upconvert when the Oppo first introduced the option with my Dolby Vision TVs. And didn’t really like it. That’s why I never enabled that option.

Yea I remembered I tried it on the OLED tv when they first  launched this feature, same like you I didn’t like it. I prefer all to be in their original content without anything up-converted

And between the two formats,  native dolby vision vs HDR10, I preferred dolby vision content on the OLED (non up convert) . The tone mapping done on the OLED is different when HDR10 kicks in vs dolby vision kick in . The biggest benefit being non eye fatigue and realism with the native DV content

The other problem I had with HDR10 mode on the tv is when white subtitles appear, it goes dim bright dim bright each time subtitles comes on. So u r watching dark knight and the scenes are dark and u have the subtitles coming on suddenly, it’s too bright. (Maybe I’m not used to it) That was on the C7 OLED. I think by now LG would have garnered more experience with HDR and tone mapping. But I don’t have such issues with native DV.

I’m still comparing between the MaxCLL and maxFALL settings. It does seem good with 1000 400 settings . I must check out with other material, maybe somewhere between 800 320 by a factor of 0.8 will be nice for my case. Still trying all options . That’s the benefit with the fury, I can now test it with various options and settings.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 28, 2020, 10:20
Yea I remembered I tried it on the OLED tv when they first  launched this feature, same like you I didn’t like it. I prefer all to be in their original content without anything up-converted

And between the two formats,  native dolby vision vs HDR10, I preferred dolby vision content on the OLED (non up convert) . The tone mapping done on the OLED is different when HDR10 kicks in vs dolby vision kick in . The biggest benefit being non eye fatigue and realism with the native DV content

The other problem I had with HDR10 mode on the tv is when white subtitles appear, it goes dim bright dim bright each time subtitles comes on. So u r watching dark knight and the scenes are dark and u have the subtitles coming on suddenly, it’s too bright. (Maybe I’m not used to it) That was on the C7 OLED. I think by now LG would have garnered more experience with HDR and tone mapping. But I don’t have such issues with native DV.

I’m still comparing between the MaxCLL and maxFALL settings. It does seem good with 1000 400 settings . I must check out with other material, maybe somewhere between 800 320 by a factor of 0.8 will be nice for my case. Still trying all options . That’s the benefit with the fury, I can now test it with various options and settings.

Have you tried putting in your displays’s gamut in the settings page? This lets the LLDV source know the limits of your display

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/70e77cd99efe12e8f3c3f4aef2c8b62f.jpg)
Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 28, 2020, 10:28
Have you tried putting in your displays’s gamut in the settings page? This lets the LLDV source know the limits of your player

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/70e77cd99efe12e8f3c3f4aef2c8b62f.jpg)
Are those values for your Sony projector or TV? Can share the former since your 760ES and my 870ES quite similar.

Never mind... :)


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 28, 2020, 13:58
Have you tried putting in your displays’s gamut in the settings page? This lets the LLDV source know the limits of your player

Do you mean the limits of your projector? Where did you get those settings from? The calibration?

I found the LLDV output to BenQ oversaturated. Not a calibrator, but fiddling with the projector controls, color, contrast etc, I got it to taste  ;D
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 28, 2020, 14:05
Dr Google says it's complicated http://www.color.org/displaygamut.xalter (http://www.color.org/displaygamut.xalter)

Maybe Roni or Desray can figure it out....
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 28, 2020, 14:11
Do you mean the limits of your projector? Where did you get those settings from? The calibration?

I found the LLDV output to BenQ oversaturated. Not a calibrator, but fiddling with the projector controls, color, contrast etc, I got it to taste  ;D
By default Vertex 2 has a few color spaces matching the A1 DCI P3 or BT2020.

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 28, 2020, 15:40
Dr Google says it's complicated http://www.color.org/displaygamut.xalter (http://www.color.org/displaygamut.xalter)

Maybe Roni or Desray can figure it out....
Lest you forget, I’m not a pro...the stuff is too cheem for me.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 28, 2020, 18:35
let me know your nick when communicating with them. new batch arriving these 2 days and if need to we'll do the exchange. i will settle the issue with them. PM me if you deem necessary.  ;)
Bro, HDFury will get in touch with you regarding my unit. The initial diagnosis by HDFury Support (in the Discord) is that my unit either has a power supply issue or the unit itself has some problem. I opted to exchange the entire set for assurance.

Keep me posted if you get any email from HDFury regarding the exchange. Thanks!


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 28, 2020, 18:51
Bro, HDFury will get in touch with you regarding my unit. The initial diagnosis by HDFury Support (in the Discord) is that my unit either has a power supply issue or the unit itself has some problem. I opted to exchange the entire set for assurance.

Keep me posted if you get any email from HDFury regarding the exchange. Thanks!


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Sure no issue. I'll check with them. Will contact you again when the new units arrives (estimate next end of week)

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on May 28, 2020, 18:52
In fact the units supposed to reach this week. Seems still doing some clearance. I'll also prompt them with regards to your case.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 28, 2020, 18:53
In fact the units supposed to reach this week. Seems still doing some clearance. I'll also prompt them with regards to your case.

Sent from my ASUS_I001DC using Tapatalk
Thanks appreciated...

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 29, 2020, 08:59
Have you tried putting in your displays’s gamut in the settings page? This lets the LLDV source know the limits of your display

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/70e77cd99efe12e8f3c3f4aef2c8b62f.jpg)

Yes I have the numbers, can obtain it with the chromapure software , although the BenQ 5700 pj claims full DCi-P3 colours, fact is it doesn’t hit 100% , I had problems with green on my BenQ . Turning on the WCG settings does nothing to solve this. So I turned that off in favour of better light output using just brilliant colours on.

I didn’t limit the colours on the vertex2 controls. Instead I chose DCI-P3 as the colour space on that page.

What I did was to bring everything in line to its 75% saturation targets using REC709 colour space when calibrating the display. It looked much better after that

I suppose I can limit the colours, Will that not cause an issue when mixing with other colours ? Say green is limited on my BenQ , I limit this now on the BenQ. But I do not limit the red ( red is ok for full dci-p3), won’t I get an erratic purple ? (Green + red = purple) . So assuming green is only 90% capable on my equipment, but red is fully capable 100%, do I bring red down to 90% to be in line with the weakest in the link ? So we have uniformed primary colours . So red green blue all able to hit its point at 90% colour. Is that how u use this tool ?

Maybe I’ll try and bring it down to REC709 and see how that looks on screen .rec709 all 100% no problem.  I didn’t do this because I didn’t think there is much content in full 100% dci-p3 saturation . So I left the values at its default.

I believe high end pj should easily hit 100% dci-p3 colour space
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on May 29, 2020, 09:14
I found the LLDV output to BenQ oversaturated. Not a calibrator, but fiddling with the projector controls, color, contrast etc, I got it to taste  ;D

Yea it’s over saturated for HDR at its default settings . Even the factory calibrated rec709 is not as accurate. Still some work to do, but it’s so much better when u have a meter, without a meter it’s almost impossible to adjust these values

I turned WCG off, turning it on makes it worse as I already have issues with green on my set. Once I turn on WCG, it affects the luminance and green becomes worse off, drops off significantly off the charts

Wait for doggies reply on how he adjusts the primary colours values. I’m not sure with adjusting this, never tried it before
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 29, 2020, 12:19
For SDR, my BenQ W2700 factory calibrated rec709 is too dark for my room even at night (due to reflections). The 95% DCI-P3 is even darker. For HDR, it really depends on the movie. Many movies are bright enough for WCG to be on, but must remember to keep brilliant color OFF when using WCG otherwise there will be a blue or green tint. I tend to use Brilliant Color only with the WCG filter OFF. Some shows like The Mandalorian are simply too dark for WCG, even with HDR Brightness turned all the way up.

I therefore have to fiddle a bit at the beginning of the movie to decide whether or not to have WCG on and if I turn it on, I need to turn Brilliant Color off. For movies like Aquaman, Crazy Rich Asians, Black Panther etc, the movie is much much more beautiful with WCG on and you miss a lot to keep it off. BenQ's single memory setting for HDR is therefore inexcusable for calibrators like yourself, especially when you need to fiddle with Brilliant Color, WCG and HDR Brightness for each movie.
Title: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 30, 2020, 00:32
Roni, I think you are digressing from the main topic which is about HDfury Vertex 2. The last few conversations fast becoming a calibration for BenQ Projector. You may want to bring the discussion on BenQ 5700 to the dedicated thread.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on May 30, 2020, 08:16
Yea it’s over saturated for HDR at its default settings . Even the factory calibrated rec709 is not as accurate. Still some work to do, but it’s so much better when u have a meter, without a meter it’s almost impossible to adjust these values

I turned WCG off, turning it on makes it worse as I already have issues with green on my set. Once I turn on WCG, it affects the luminance and green becomes worse off, drops off significantly off the charts

Wait for doggies reply on how he adjusts the primary colours values. I’m not sure with adjusting this, never tried it before
By default there are a few presets for Sony A1, DCI P3 and BT2020. The A1 is specifically narrower than the A1.

I believe part of Dolby’s specifications is for the LLDV display to handshake with the player that provides the decoding with these parameters so the Dolby processing can remap the encoded metadata to the full extent offered by the projector.

For those who have measured and calibrated their displays and know the extent of their color gamut, these fields allow you to key in the specific limits.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 30, 2020, 14:04
Found this on HDFury site. Might improve it for some JVC owners:

1 – Custom Sony A1 LLDV EDID 5 in combination with Dominic’s A1 custom color profile for JVC. This was the first solution that reduced the red tint we saw when using the A1 LLDV EDID 5. JVC projectors only.
JVC custom A1 color profile download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581466297 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581466297)
Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf (https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf)

2 – Mark’s custom BT2020 EDID in combination with BT2020 color profile in any display. This is a good option for those that don’t want to mess with color profiles in your display. Every HDR display should include a BT2020 color proflle.
Custom BT2020 EDID download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581851932 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581851932)

3 – Diva/Vertex2/Maestro Automix mode default DV data block with DCI-P3 primaries combined with a DCI-P3 color profile. This option provides the capability to customize the DV data block field values from the defaults if you have one of the new HDfury devices.
Manni’s JVC-only custom DCI-P3 color profile download link for JVC models that don’t have a built-in DCI-P3 profile:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…0&d=1506168265 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…0&d=1506168265)
Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf (https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf)

4 – Mark’s custom DCI-P3 EDID in combination with a DCI-P3 color profile. This is a good option for those who have an older HDfury device but want to use a DCI-P3 color profile.
Download link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1584451347 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1584451347)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 30, 2020, 15:03
Found this on HDFury site. Might improve it for some JVC owners:

1 – Custom Sony A1 LLDV EDID 5 in combination with Dominic’s A1 custom color profile for JVC. This was the first solution that reduced the red tint we saw when using the A1 LLDV EDID 5. JVC projectors only.
JVC custom A1 color profile download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581466297 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581466297)
Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf (https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf)

2 – Mark’s custom BT2020 EDID in combination with BT2020 color profile in any display. This is a good option for those that don’t want to mess with color profiles in your display. Every HDR display should include a BT2020 color proflle.
Custom BT2020 EDID download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581851932 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1581851932)

3 – Diva/Vertex2/Maestro Automix mode default DV data block with DCI-P3 primaries combined with a DCI-P3 color profile. This option provides the capability to customize the DV data block field values from the defaults if you have one of the new HDfury devices.
Manni’s JVC-only custom DCI-P3 color profile download link for JVC models that don’t have a built-in DCI-P3 profile:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…0&d=1506168265 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…0&d=1506168265)
Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf (https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/…e_en_v1_00.pdf)

4 – Mark’s custom DCI-P3 EDID in combination with a DCI-P3 color profile. This is a good option for those who have an older HDfury device but want to use a DCI-P3 color profile.
Download link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1584451347 (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac…2&d=1584451347)


These settings are literally found in ALL HDFury marketing mailers :P
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 31, 2020, 08:01
 :-[ Did you try any of them?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on May 31, 2020, 08:12
Just watched Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald on ATV4K fixed to Dolby Vision at 24Hz with WCG on, a 99c rental on iTunes. Typical example of bright movie with wonderful colors that begs for WCG. Movie was absolutely gorgeous on Dolby Vision with beautiful skin tones. There are various skin tones from the protagonists from dark black, light black, white, freckled white and asian. All were very realistic.

Separately, I watched a bit of the same movie from iTunes using my Firestick 4K and the Apple TV app in DV, which on the Firestick is locked at 422 60Hz with no way to change it. I think the ATV4K is definitely the better Dolby Vision device, at least for iTunes movies.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on May 31, 2020, 08:17
:-[ Did you try any of them?
Yes. For the BT2020 EDID by Mark. The rest didn’t try as I dun own a JVC projector anymore else I confirm try and will post my findings here. Anyway, the results not really that good, at least on my Sony laser projector. I will rather stick to my own calibrated DCI-P3 settings which displayed a far more superior and accurate image. YMMV though.

Besides I have a new firmware (0.54) from HDFury a couple of days ago which contained some of those custom EDID settings by the AVSForum members.

In short, not all the settings from the a/m posts will produce good PQ imo. You can try a few on your own and see if it works for your BenQ Display


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2020, 12:48
By default there are a few presets for Sony A1, DCI P3 and BT2020. The A1 is specifically narrower than the A1.

I believe part of Dolby’s specifications is for the LLDV display to handshake with the player that provides the decoding with these parameters so the Dolby processing can remap the encoded metadata to the full extent offered by the projector.

For those who have measured and calibrated their displays and know the extent of their color gamut, these fields allow you to key in the specific limits.

Ok nice ! I can explore this feature then
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2020, 12:51
Just watched Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald on ATV4K fixed to Dolby Vision at 24Hz with WCG on, a 99c rental on iTunes. Typical example of bright movie with wonderful colors that begs for WCG. Movie was absolutely gorgeous on Dolby Vision with beautiful skin tones. There are various skin tones from the protagonists from dark black, light black, white, freckled white and asian. All were very realistic.

Separately, I watched a bit of the same movie from iTunes using my Firestick 4K and the Apple TV app in DV, which on the Firestick is locked at 422 60Hz with no way to change it. I think the ATV4K is definitely the better Dolby Vision device, at least for iTunes movies.

I’ve just watched “ mandalorian” in native DV, really nice using 1000 0.005. The specular highlights from laser gun shooting scenes etc, just nice. Overall not too dark and not too bright. Quite a pleasant experience
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 01, 2020, 12:54
It would be useful to know if there is any difference in the over saturation on BenQ projectors from the different EDID presets. I've adjusted to taste my projector with the ATV4K. However, its different for the Firestick 4K so unless I direct that to a different input on the BenQ (given only one memory), my adjustments to color, contrast etc are currently best only on the ATV4K.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 01, 2020, 12:56
I’ve just watched “ mandalorian” in native DV, really nice using 1000 0.005. The specular highlights from laser gun shooting scenes etc, just nice. Overall not too dark and not too bright. Quite a pleasant experience

Yes. If you turn the WCG filter on, its unwatchable because simply too dark even in a bat cave. You can't see the details on his Beskar armor. But Mandalorian doesn't have the beautiful colors of other movies, so WCG isn't necessary.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 01, 2020, 12:59
Try "The Crimes of Grindelwald" on with WCG on (turn off Brilliant Color) and off. The brilliance of the colors and quality of the skin tones makes it ideal for WCG. Its also a bright movie, even in the dark scenes.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2020, 13:05
It would be useful to know if there is any difference in the over saturation on BenQ projectors from the different EDID presets. I've adjusted to taste my projector with the ATV4K. However, its different for the Firestick 4K so unless I direct that to a different input on the BenQ (given only one memory), my adjustments to color, contrast etc are currently best only on the ATV4K.

Not that I can tell with different EDID presets, not so much, if there is any, it’s minimal.

When u use fire stick, it will be different, change to Oppo, different again. Somehow colours all look different. That’s why I have split out the two to each hdmi on the BenQ and calibrated it separately. It’s “ vastly” different between the two players ATV4K and Oppo. Although both players process and send ycbcr video data to the pj. The process and conversion to RGB is done on the pj itself , it is still different . Entirely new set of calibration that differs quite a lot to the Oppo profile vs the ATV4K

But once the individual calibration process is complete, it’s satisfactory on both players. Everything looks natural
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2020, 13:07
Yes. If you turn the WCG filter on, its unwatchable because simply too dark even in a bat cave. You can't see the details on his Beskar armor. But Mandalorian doesn't have the beautiful colors of other movies, so WCG isn't necessary.

Yea! U have watched it! Will be too dark if WCG turned on.... maybe I’ll try trolls animation with WCG turned on, that animation has tons of beautiful scenes with popping colours
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2020, 13:07
Try "The Crimes of Grindelwald" on with WCG on (turn off Brilliant Color) and off. The brilliance of the colors and quality of the skin tones makes it ideal for WCG. Its also a bright movie, even in the dark scenes.

Ok will check it out , thanks !
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on June 02, 2020, 11:30
Hi Guys

Win lent me Vertex2 to try, I already have the Vertex1 which was mainly to be used as a splitter and resolve handshake issues. Main focus to try the Vertex2 is for the LLDV spoof.
I put the vertex 2 after my Acurus Muse processor, and it links to 2 sinks LG OLED TV HD only no HDR (casual watching) & Sony VPL VW 260 ES PJ.
Sources are connected to the Acurus Muse processor which includes Apple TV4k, Pioneer LX500, Sony X700 blu ray etc.

I have setup the Vertex2 based on Doggiehowser suggestion as we're using the same Sony 4k Pj although his is the higher end laser version.

I tried using Apple TV movies which I bought and Netflix that is Dolby Vision, can confirm that I saw Dolby Vision on the movie landing page prior to starting.

One thing is I can't confirm if the Apple TV is sending Dolby Vision signal (both my TV and PJ are not Dolby Vision native) I followed suggestions of setting Apple tv4k default as 4K SDR with match Frame range & Range to the content. So am assuming if native video from Netflix is Dolby Vision ATV4k will output as such.

From the Vertex2 display I only see BT2020 12b ( bit rate) HDR XXX mhz
I don't see the DV tag on the Input (IN0) (which I thought I should see).

Can some one help on this should you see the DV tag there?

Thanks
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 02, 2020, 11:52
Dolby vision really looks stunning to me. Below is the mandalorian using DV tone mapping curve

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/cadbb1301a1f79cc176d62cc96552c35.jpg)

The baby Yoda in green looks correct to me now after the calibration

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/61046d9b7b0828f1362bf36e3fc9e3af.jpg)

Using 1000, 0.005 MaxCLL maxFALL, not too bad

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/6237ad36c217f8eabeda11f12f146c1f.jpg)

This one below is my favourite part, skin tones look so natural and lifelike, the red looks real, not over saturated, beautiful and natural looking

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/3c62158faf25f05d8454255ea8d5d61a.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/5986d4fbc7acef3a50d4d22428f09642.jpg)

Green looks good too with the lemon in yellow, these are all using DV tone mapping

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/deb07b442b01e6fc3f87d1344a669ed4.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/729203ec27f3a324391b27f7792651e8.jpg)

Fireworks looks stunning !!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/977070e25d30f18c9182ff2db553b471.jpg)

Specular highlights are good too, can see the reflection of light on the river

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/e21323387865dd55d73b76e42b1c1101.jpg)

Diamonds and ruby, ladies best friend

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/f7e11fb6a6f1ad166f41aa0870be4fe3.jpg)

This building looks real and natural

These were all in HDR10, using DV player led by Oppo . Mandalorian is in native Dolby vision. Though I must admit that during the fight scenes with laser gun shooting, the light is pretty bright, comes on and off, the peak luminance looks great on screen, but not so for the eyes. But they were short scenes

Overall, can’t believe this is a BenQ 5700 PJ, absolutely stunning to me now for SDR and HDR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 02, 2020, 13:48
Hi Guys

Win lent me Vertex2 to try, I already have the Vertex1 which was mainly to be used as a splitter and resolve handshake issues. Main focus to try the Vertex2 is for the LLDV spoof.
I put the vertex 2 after my Acurus Muse processor, and it links to 2 sinks LG OLED TV HD only no HDR (casual watching) & Sony VPL VW 260 ES PJ.
Sources are connected to the Acurus Muse processor which includes Apple TV4k, Pioneer LX500, Sony X700 blu ray etc.

I have setup the Vertex2 based on Doggiehowser suggestion as we're using the same Sony 4k Pj although his is the higher end laser version.

I tried using Apple TV movies which I bought and Netflix that is Dolby Vision, can confirm that I saw Dolby Vision on the movie landing page prior to starting.

One thing is I can't confirm if the Apple TV is sending Dolby Vision signal (both my TV and PJ are not Dolby Vision native) I followed suggestions of setting Apple tv4k default as 4K SDR with match Frame range & Range to the content. So am assuming if native video from Netflix is Dolby Vision ATV4k will output as such.

From the Vertex2 display I only see BT2020 12b ( bit rate) HDR XXX mhz
I don't see the DV tag on the Input (IN0) (which I thought I should see).

Can some one help on this should you see the DV tag there?

Thanks


I don't think you are in Dolby Vision mode. If you are, you will see "LLDV" on IN0

When you connect the ATV4K, Audio Video settings should have the option "Turn on Dolby Vision". If you don't see that, then the ATV4K doesn't think the Vertex is capable of DV. You can leave it off, but if you don't see "LLDV" on the info when you watch the movie(you can press any button on the Vertex2 to bring it up on the unit's OLED), you may not have set the EDID properly. Either according to Doggie's settings (don't forget to save) or as a Sony A1 OLED.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 02, 2020, 14:00
U can try using mobile phone browser , that’s what I do.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/40deeb2be8b8b3a66b9a1242ff931927.jpg)

Just need to know the last 2 digits http://VERTEX2-XX/ , then u can adjust the settings on the Oppo or ATV4K and see the results of how the signal routes through the vertex on the info page

This method is way faster and lets u see the results once u hit the “ refresh” button

That’s how I was using it to determine which mode works best and since ATV4K is connected to one of the BenQ hdmi and Oppo to another BenQ hdmi , I went with using the matrix mode

So “TX0” is for ATV4K that allows eARC for dolby Atmos.

On Oppo 205, “TX1”, so it only sends video information to the vertex. The Oppo then uses a secondary hdmi to send audio out to the Lyngdorf mp50

That’s how I’m using it now after clarifying with HDFury support that Tx1 allows 4k HDR

You can try various EDID settings on the fly, and see which works best




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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on June 02, 2020, 21:01
Finally got the Vertex2 LLDV to work, had to connect the ATV4k to vertex then to PJ, connecting HDMI audio out to the Acurus Muse.
I will set this just specifically for ATV4k, the other sources which are not DV are going the normal route where the source links to the Muse first then out to Vertex (used as switcher to my 2 sinks).

So on Vertex 2
Input used 2: Apple TV4k, Acurus Muse out (which connects to all the other non DV source)
Output used 3: Sony PJ, LG OLED (down scale as it's HD only & non HDR), Acurus Muse (Audio only) this is only used for the apple tv4k.

DV out on Netflix & Apple TV is pretty good in my eye. Smoother color gradation. It does cut brightness compared to normal HDR I think. Will need to setup a preset for DV on PJ.

So hence my PJ will have 3 settings, SDR, HDR and DV.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 02, 2020, 22:08
Finally got the Vertex2 LLDV to work, had to connect the ATV4k to vertex then to PJ, connecting HDMI audio out to the Acurus Muse.
I will set this just specifically for ATV4k, the other sources which are not DV are going the normal route where the source links to the Muse first then out to Vertex (used as switcher to my 2 sinks).

So on Vertex 2
Input used 2: Apple TV4k, Acurus Muse out (which connects to all the other non DV source)
Output used 3: Sony PJ, LG OLED (down scale as it's HD only & non HDR), Acurus Muse (Audio only) this is only used for the apple tv4k.

DV out on Netflix & Apple TV is pretty good in my eye. Smoother color gradation. It does cut brightness compared to normal HDR I think. Will need to setup a preset for DV on PJ.

So hence my PJ will have 3 settings, SDR, HDR and DV.

nice! congrats!!!
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 03, 2020, 09:50
Chimera good job !! I was just about to share, but I’ll share anyway so hope others will find this helpful

An example when connecting an ATV4K with A BenQ pj

The mode on the ATV4K is set to 4k SDR 24

Here u will see LLDV kick in on the input signal

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/c08396552abd07802a23b92dc4554cbd.jpg)

Moving to Netflix, you will see the vision and Atmos logo, if the EDID is set correctly. Setting it to Automix by ticking the DV flag will suffice for it to kick in

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/9d6affb1b808e18210002625663cae6b.jpg)

When watching YouTube channel, it will be back in 4k SDR mode, and you will see the info change back to SDR as below. At the moment I’m using YCBCR chroma 4:4:4, match frame and dynamic both turned on

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/920120b8ac1f054bce6b7617409149e5.jpg)

It’s also important to run a hdmi check, the ATV4K allows for this

This is what I get below when I used back the 8k hdmi 2.1 cable from Moshou.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/9ca51c843aba4d7138b0344dca35acb5.jpg)

Before that I was also having intermittent connectivity issues using another “supposedly” certified hdmi 2.1, some brand name Accell. Cheap, but so many issues with sending the signal . Running a hdmi check on Apple, it returns “ Apple finds your hdmi connection unstable” check your hdmi cable.. I swapped that out for audio to hdmi 1.4 port

So it’s important to note, a good hdmi cable is worth it. Nowadays we have 1001 brands out there. I highly recommend the moshou brand, it works on 12k video material and now LLDV with DD+ on ATV4K

Intermittent issues were not on the vertex2, it was the hdmi cable.




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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Audio on June 03, 2020, 12:15
The mode on the ATV4K is set to 4k SDR 24

Strange.  I thought this should be 4K HDR.

(Audio)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 03, 2020, 12:39

It’s also important to run a hdmi check, the ATV4K allows for this

This is what I get below when I used back the 8k hdmi 2.1 cable from Moshou.

Before that I was also having intermittent connectivity issues using another “supposedly” certified hdmi 2.1, some brand name Accell. Cheap, but so many issues with sending the signal . Running a hdmi check on Apple, it returns “ Apple finds your hdmi connection unstable” check your hdmi cable.. I swapped that out for audio to hdmi 1.4 port

So it’s important to note, a good hdmi cable is worth it. Nowadays we have 1001 brands out there. I highly recommend the moshou brand, it works on 12k video material and now LLDV with DD+ on ATV4K

Intermittent issues were not on the vertex2, it was the hdmi cable.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Bro, you mentioned about this "Moshou" (translate in English is "Monster") brand from China...I looked it up, it is quite expensive based on Lazada pricing. How much did you pay for it and what's the length?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 03, 2020, 13:12
Strange.  I thought this should be 4K HDR.

(Audio)

It is less stress on the lamp to run in SDR for projectors. Just use Range and Framerate matching to switch to the right format when you play DV or HDR10 etc
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 03, 2020, 13:20
Bro, you mentioned about this "Moshou" (translate in English is "Monster") brand from China...I looked it up, it is quite expensive based on Lazada pricing. How much did you pay for it and what's the length?

can use aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/HDMI-2-1/4842028_514888063.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.pcShopHead_35377535.4_0
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 03, 2020, 13:26
can use aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/HDMI-2-1/4842028_514888063.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.pcShopHead_35377535.4_0


Thanks.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 03, 2020, 14:00
It is less stress on the lamp to run in SDR for projectors. Just use Range and Framerate matching to switch to the right format when you play DV or HDR10 etc

+1, I set it to match dynamic range and frame rate
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 03, 2020, 14:09
Bro, you mentioned about this "Moshou" (translate in English is "Monster") brand from China...I looked it up, it is quite expensive based on Lazada pricing. How much did you pay for it and what's the length?


Des, use this for Fiber Long runs. I’m running two 15m of these front to back, no issues, smooth sailing even on 12k video material , very good quality for the price

8K Fiber Ultra HD Cable HDMI 2.1 Cable 8K@120Hz Optical Fiber HIFI Audio Cable Ultra-HD (UHD) Video Line 48Gbs Cord HDR 4:4:4

https://a.aliexpress.com/_dWCdXOL

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/3ae0e50aff0fa84fae51d0829f4d5fa1.jpg)

If you don’t need fiber, for shorter runs, this is also good , moshou, the one in teal, cheaper than the fiber ones. But very reliable

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/35f36eaca55a769cf6bcc083011ba388.jpg)

From aliexpress

HDMI 2.1 Cables 8K 60Hz 4K 120Hz MOSHOU

https://a.aliexpress.com/_d6gFknD


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 03, 2020, 14:25

Des, use this for Fiber Long runs. I’m running two 15m of these front to back, no issues, smooth sailing even on 12k video material , very good quality for the price

8K Fiber Ultra HD Cable HDMI 2.1 Cable 8K@120Hz Optical Fiber HIFI Audio Cable Ultra-HD (UHD) Video Line 48Gbs Cord HDR 4:4:4

https://a.aliexpress.com/_dWCdXOL

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/3ae0e50aff0fa84fae51d0829f4d5fa1.jpg)

If you don’t need fiber, for shorter runs, this is also good , moshou, the one in teal, cheaper than the fiber ones. But very reliable

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/35f36eaca55a769cf6bcc083011ba388.jpg)

From aliexpress

HDMI 2.1 Cables 8K 60Hz 4K 120Hz MOSHOU

https://a.aliexpress.com/_d6gFknD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Thks bro for the links. Will check it out.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 03, 2020, 18:44
I using it myself, expensive but less headache. Really is no fight.

This is from vertex 2 tx0 output to tv
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/fae28c7fba1acd832f32e0df3b2b4e67.jpg)

This from oppo output to AVP
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/a7b312e0a7e5e7bf403419f4571aeb81.jpg)

So my way of using Vertex2 is in between the AVP and tv.

Still have some unopened, for some future devices, 15m is of course for future projector
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200603/abf63183ea990e28aea039134c876575.jpg)

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 03, 2020, 21:15
On AVS Forum, HDFury support replied to someone asking about cables as follows:

It's good but keep in mind that any "8K" cable is currently only marketing BS, there is no source and no evaluation board offering more than 1200MHz currently which is the "compressed" version of real 2.1 aka 1500MHz.
So anyone claiming to have 2.1 confirmed working cable is currently lying.


Apparently, because of Covid-19, all the HDMI 2.1 stuff is delayed, possibly missing a whole year of launches

I have a 15m run of a Monoprice Premium Certified cable. Works fine. If you buy an expensive long 8K cable, say 10m+, it probably won't work when real HDMI 2.1 aka 1500Mhz comes out. So buy the cheapest cable that works.

You can buy from Amazon Singapore. It's returnable if it doesn't work although they take some time to refund. $120 for 15m, $77 for 10m

https://www.amazon.sg/DynamicView-Active-Speed-Cable-18Gbps/dp/B01DWQMVQE/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=monoprice%2Bdynamicview&qid=1591191107&s=gateway&sr=8-12&th=1 (https://www.amazon.sg/DynamicView-Active-Speed-Cable-18Gbps/dp/B01DWQMVQE/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=monoprice%2Bdynamicview&qid=1591191107&s=gateway&sr=8-12&th=1)

Go over to Monoprice to read the reviews as well

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14133&seq=1&format=2 (https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14133&seq=1&format=2)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 03, 2020, 22:15
On AVS Forum, HDFury support replied to someone asking about cables as follows:

It's good but keep in mind that any "8K" cable is currently only marketing BS, there is no source and no evaluation board offering more than 1200MHz currently which is the "compressed" version of real 2.1 aka 1500MHz.
So anyone claiming to have 2.1 confirmed working cable is currently lying.


Apparently, because of Covid-19, all the HDMI 2.1 stuff is delayed, possibly missing a whole year of launches

I have a 15m run of a Monoprice Premium Certified cable. Works fine. If you buy an expensive long 8K cable, say 10m+, it probably won't work when real HDMI 2.1 aka 1500Mhz comes out. So buy the cheapest cable that works.

You can buy from Amazon Singapore. It's returnable if it doesn't work although they take some time to refund. $120 for 15m, $77 for 10m

https://www.amazon.sg/DynamicView-Active-Speed-Cable-18Gbps/dp/B01DWQMVQE/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=monoprice%2Bdynamicview&qid=1591191107&s=gateway&sr=8-12&th=1 (https://www.amazon.sg/DynamicView-Active-Speed-Cable-18Gbps/dp/B01DWQMVQE/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=monoprice%2Bdynamicview&qid=1591191107&s=gateway&sr=8-12&th=1)

Go over to Monoprice to read the reviews as well

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14133&seq=1&format=2 (https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=14133&seq=1&format=2)

Thanks for sharing bro.

I think you are right, I'll KIV my purchase of the HDMI 2.1 cable for now.

The current batch of HDMI 2.1 cables in the market right now probably not going to do the full bandwidth (48Gbps/1,500Mhz) at 8K60fps or 4K@120fps. The HDMI 2.1 wave is definitely on the rise. The upcoming Denon AVR will feature HDMI 2.1 specs and we probably going to expect TV manufacturers coming up with new models that support HDMI 2.1 specs next year. There is little incentive at this point to jump to HDMI 2.1 for now since there is so little software (8K) and no TV/Projector that support 8K. But one thing good about HDMI is backward compatibility.

For those who want a more stable 4K HDMI 2.0 at full bandwidth (18Gbps/600Mhz) that supports 4K HDR, besides the optic fibre HDMI cable, you may also want to check out any copper-based HDMI 2.0 with active booster built-in.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 03, 2020, 23:05
Personally if I own a $30k projector, I would think twice looking at the Monoprice, trust me, quality is not there. Not sure how is the design on the Chip. Very bad experience from many users, including myself . they fry the hdmi board on many instances.

One lyngdorf user in USA learnt it the hard way as recent as last year

Sometimes it’s good to hear it from the horse mouth from people who have actually used it, sometimes it’s luck also. Look out for bad reviews, good reviews are everywhere. Bad ones hard to find. When I evaluate, I look at the probability. Maybe 1 out of 10 still acceptable, but if we are looking at 3 out of 10 then it is a concern. Either Some issues with design or QC.

I do agree though there is no way to test hdmi 2.1 for now. I’ve seen some test reports, but how accurate we have no idea and I didn’t understand any of the reports. lol Lots of it could be marketing gimmick. Like the one I bought accell, supposedly 2.1 certified . But can’t even pass the ATV4K hdmi check

I would err on the side of caution, don’t be penny wise pound foolish. Unless there is years on warranty then it’s ok to risk it. Probably good idea to play the waiting game.

Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 04, 2020, 06:58
Personally if I own a $30k projector, I would think twice looking at the Monoprice, trust me, quality is not there. Not sure how is the design on the Chip. Very bad experience from many users, including myself . they fry the hdmi board on many instances.

One lyngdorf user in USA learnt it the hard way as recent as last year

Sometimes it’s good to hear it from the horse mouth from people who have actually used it, sometimes it’s luck also. Look out for bad reviews, good reviews are everywhere. Bad ones hard to find. When I evaluate, I look at the probability. Maybe 1 out of 10 still acceptable, but if we are looking at 3 out of 10 then it is a concern. Either Some issues with design or QC.

I do agree though there is no way to test hdmi 2.1 for now. I’ve seen some test reports, but how accurate we have no idea and I didn’t understand any of the reports. lol Lots of it could be marketing gimmick. Like the one I bought accell, supposedly 2.1 certified . But can’t even pass the ATV4K hdmi check

I would err on the side of caution, don’t be penny wise pound foolish. Unless there is years on warranty then it’s ok to risk it. Probably good idea to play the waiting game.

Just my 2 cents

Yep...going to do that.


Just to add on, for those with sources and display far away from each other say 10m and above...it is good to invest in an optic fibre HDMI or one with a booster built-in to amplify the signal. For those like mine where sources and display are very close (say 3 - 5m away from each other), you can do away with a Premium grade-certified copper-based cable as you will not see any degradation in PQ.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 07:39
You can't really tell even with expensive cables. I've had the HDMI ports in my Sony projector fried before requiring repair under warranty. The combo was in use for a few years before it died and were expensive cables from a local distributor. However, its hard to tell what killed it. Bad cable?, lightning strike?, surge?

You are right that Monoprice as a brand isn't reliable in terms of HDMI cables and you have to be careful, just like if you are buying from Amazon or eBay. However Monoprice is a HUGE reseller of HDMI cables, and its HDMI cables have more reviews, whether on the Monoprice site, Amazon or on forums. With a large number of reviews, especially from the technically inclined, you can more easily judge for yourself whether a cable will work. Anyone sensible will focus on the bad reviews, but more importantly, you need to read the bad reviews to see if they make sense and were from people who know what they were talking about. So, its not just about probability because the 3% of bad reviews could be from non-technical users.

The other reason is that Amazon Singapore now sells Monoprice cables at similar prices to Monoprice and has a good return policy. So, if it doesn't work, you can send it back. When buying an expensive cable, its very useful to be able to deal with someone local rather than an Overseas website.

I'm with this current series of Monoprice cables because they just work and are reasonably prices. As more and more 4K60 4:4:4 devices proliferate across my home, I just keep adding the same Monoprice cables with absolute confidence.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 07:53
Yep...going to do that.


Just to add on, for those with sources and display far away from each other say 10m and above...it is good to invest in an optic fibre HDMI or one with a booster built-in to amplify the signal. For those like mine where sources and display are very close (say 3 - 5m away from each other), you can do away with a Premium grade-certified copper-based cable as you will not see any degradation in PQ.


On the fiber optic cables, don't be an early adopter. Years ago, before I had HDMI 2.0,  I bought some fiber optic Monoprice cables which were "rated at 18 Gbps" hoping to future proof. These were some of the first fiber optic cables and I marveled that such a small, thin and light cable could go 6m. But that was before I had anything I could test it with. When I got my first Samsung TV which was 4K60 4:4:4 capable, I got snow and artifacts, and then I realized that I was suckered as an early adopter. Fortunately, I hadn't spent too much...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 04, 2020, 08:04
On the fiber optic cables, don't be an early adopter. Years ago, before I had HDMI 2.0,  I bought some fiber optic Monoprice cables which were "rated at 18 Gbps" hoping to future proof. These were some of the first fiber optic cables and I marveled that such a small, thin and light cable could go 6m. But that was before I had anything I could test it with. When I got my first Samsung TV which was 4K60 4:4:4 capable, I got snow and artifacts, and then I realized that I was suckered as an early adopter. Fortunately, I hadn't spent too much...
Thks for the advice. I only jumped on the optic fibre HDMI cable last couple of years. It’s already matured by now.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 09:29
You can't really tell even with expensive cables. I've had the HDMI ports in my Sony projector fried before requiring repair under warranty. The combo was in use for a few years before it died and were expensive cables from a local distributor. However, its hard to tell what killed it. Bad cable?, lightning strike?, surge?

You are right that Monoprice as a brand isn't reliable in terms of HDMI cables and you have to be careful, just like if you are buying from Amazon or eBay. However Monoprice is a HUGE reseller of HDMI cables, and its HDMI cables have more reviews, whether on the Monoprice site, Amazon or on forums. With a large number of reviews, especially from the technically inclined, you can more easily judge for yourself whether a cable will work. Anyone sensible will focus on the bad reviews, but more importantly, you need to read the bad reviews to see if they make sense and were from people who know what they were talking about. So, its not just about probability because the 3% of bad reviews could be from non-technical users.

The other reason is that Amazon Singapore now sells Monoprice cables at similar prices to Monoprice and has a good return policy. So, if it doesn't work, you can send it back. When buying an expensive cable, its very useful to be able to deal with someone local rather than an Overseas website.

I'm with this current series of Monoprice cables because they just work and are reasonably prices. As more and more 4K60 4:4:4 devices proliferate across my home, I just keep adding the same Monoprice cables with absolute confidence.

Good to know they are working great, I’m sure they are constantly improving it in the coming versions of hdmi.

Either way, if there are intermittent issues with the display switching from SDR HDR , and not kicking in to the correct mode, one has gotta look at the hdmi cable. Not really the problem on the vertex2 as I have found. After switching out the cable, I had 0 issues with vertex2  kicking into LLDV SDR to and forth. Refreshing the info page using my mobile, I was able to see clearly what signal was routing through, consistently

The crux of the issue is most likely the hdmi cable’s inability to transmit the bandwidth required to the vertex2, resulting in the vertex2 not being able to receive the correct information

Changing information on the fly on the vertex2 on the “DV” tab has also resulted in accuracy. As I can see clearly how the display is projecting the information change as I fiddle with the setting

So yea, definitely a very important piece of accessory that will make a whole lot of difference to the experience

The other way to check how good the hdmi cable is, by sending a RGB 4:4:4 signal Low to the pj. This way, u can test he bandwidth of the hdmi cable. Go to the Apple TV settings, change yCbCr to RGB Low 4:4:4, then run the hdmi check feature on the ATV4K. From there u will know how good is the hdmi cable

😉
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 10:12
This was how I started diagnosing bad/incapable cables a few years ago when I first bought the ATV4K and found snow. Before that I didn't have a non-PC that could transmit 4K60 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 HDR. So far my Vertex2 has been rock solid. No issues at all and I haven't powered it down since I got it.

The annoying issue is the BenQ W2700 projector's slow switching to HDR mode and the occasional split screen artifact. Clicking etc... Is the W5700 like that? My OLED and Samsung TVs switch instantly. That's why I run the Apple TV with in fixed HDR/frequency at Dolby Vision 24 Hz. Although DV and HDR content has accurate colors, HD colors are off and I have to switch off Dolby Vision for that. So, upscaling via Vertex hack to DV on the ATV4K doesn't work well for me for HD content. Only 4K and HDR.
Title: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 10:18
Here is one when I tested previously sending on a full bandwidth signal RGB 4:4:4 Low 8bit to the display, in 4k SDR mode

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200604/708790d410c90cee0998e2ec37fe238f.jpg)

I was testing between allowing the ATV4K to do the conversion to RGB before sending on the full bandwidth signal vide the hdmi cable to the Pj

No problems when I used the supposedly hdmi 2.1 moshou cables . The cables claim they are able to carry the bandwidth, and true enough it is capable.

I couldn’t even go in to RGB Low mode using “accell” supposedly 2.1 cable

If I’m asked to compare between RGB 4:4:4 vs yCbCr 4:4:4, I have noticed that RGB conversion at source provided a better contrast to the picture quality , but converting at source player eats into bandwidth as it now has to send the full bandwidth signal vide the hdmi cable . I’m now using this mode and I’ll try and observe to see if there are any issues .

I think it doesn’t take up as much bandwidth as can be seen from the chart below at 9gbps, but again there is no way of telling how good the cable is able to transmit this information

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200604/6338f2afdbe135abcc4de3e58d3fc2ad.jpg)



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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 10:20
That's a good chart. Do you have a clearer copy?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 10:25
That's a good chart. Do you have a clearer copy?

Ok updated pics, can see clearly now ? Yea it’s a good chart, for us to gauge
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 10:44
Roni, the 4:4:4 RGB at 8 bits is the same bandwidth at 4:2:2 HDR 12 bits YCbCr so I'm not sure what you mean by sending RGB low to the display. My understanding is that RGB is best for using the TV as a PC monitor and indeed that is the case with my Samsung. If you put out a 4K PC or Mac page to a TV in YCbCr, you can see how blurry the text is.

My Blu Ray of Gemini Man is on the way here. Its the first BluRay with Dolby Vision high frame rate - 60fps! Have you tried it?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df (https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 11:30
Roni, the 4:4:4 RGB at 8 bits is the same bandwidth at 4:2:2 HDR 12 bits YCbCr so I'm not sure what you mean by sending RGB low to the display. My understanding is that RGB is best for using the TV as a PC monitor and indeed that is the case with my Samsung. If you put out a 4K PC or Mac page to a TV in YCbCr, you can see how blurry the text is.

My Blu Ray of Gemini Man is on the way here. Its the first BluRay with Dolby Vision high frame rate - 60fps! Have you tried it?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df (https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df)

I think that’s the average from the chart, I’m sure a full RGB will require way more bandwidth than yCbCr. There are 2 options on the ATV4K where u are able to set RGB high and RGB Low. RGB High is more for gaming stuff where the HDMI black levels are full from 0-255 (pc standard) and RGB Low (16-235) is limited for movie content mode . When selected to RGB Low, What this does is it converts to full RGB at source itself at ATV4K before sending the full uncompressed signal to the PJ. The PJ is now “ relieved” of doing this conversion . The downside being that the hdmi cable is now tasked with  the “burden” of carrying this data that requires huge bandwidth across to the PJ.

So my point is, I’m running a 15m hdmi 2.1 moshou fiber cable, from vertex2 to the BenQ PJ located behind MLP . The cable is able to carry the necessary full RGB  bandwidth without hiccups

Actually I don’t earn any commission etc from moushou or anything, no relationship or affiliation whatsoever . But I find it hard to find a good hdmi fiber cable . The fibbr ones are expensive but they are also reliable . There is another brand that Alf carries, can’t remember the name now, that’s also very good. Good reviews from users in the forum

It’s probably a good way to test the cables. My experience points to a very satisfactory result with the moshou name as far as fiber / copper hdmi goes.

My initial thoughts were the vertex2 was buggy. Sometimes kick in sometimes don’t kick in, But after a few rounds fiddling,  now I see the issue
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 04, 2020, 11:34
Roni, the 4:4:4 RGB at 8 bits is the same bandwidth at 4:2:2 HDR 12 bits YCbCr so I'm not sure what you mean by sending RGB low to the display. My understanding is that RGB is best for using the TV as a PC monitor and indeed that is the case with my Samsung. If you put out a 4K PC or Mac page to a TV in YCbCr, you can see how blurry the text is.

My Blu Ray of Gemini Man is on the way here. Its the first BluRay with Dolby Vision high frame rate - 60fps! Have you tried it?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df (https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df)
At the end of the day, we are limited by the current bandwidth at 18Gbps (Premium certified) for 4K content regardless of the Color space sent out. So test YCC at 12bit HDR or RGB (full) at 8 bit will be the same.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 04, 2020, 11:36
Roni, the 4:4:4 RGB at 8 bits is the same bandwidth at 4:2:2 HDR 12 bits YCbCr so I'm not sure what you mean by sending RGB low to the display. My understanding is that RGB is best for using the TV as a PC monitor and indeed that is the case with my Samsung. If you put out a 4K PC or Mac page to a TV in YCbCr, you can see how blurry the text is.

My Blu Ray of Gemini Man is on the way here. Its the first BluRay with Dolby Vision high frame rate - 60fps! Have you tried it?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df (https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2020/01/14/4k-review-gemini-man-pushes-4k-all-the-way/#59f5654e42df)
The Gemini Man in 4K60fps is stunning. Sony Projector handles it like a champ.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 04, 2020, 11:57
There is a product from HDFury too called maestro. It's a RX and Tx linked using Cat cables in between and can stretch for as long as 70m gaurantee no signal loss. Just saying lol

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 12:44
There is a product from HDFury too called maestro. It's a RX and Tx linked using Cat cables in between and can stretch for as long as 70m gaurantee no signal loss. Just saying lol

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Yea it’s called HD Base T, it’s on the lyngdorf processor as well, we have this option . But back then I didn’t take this route, I understand it does some form of compression when sending the signal, then decompress again. the bandwidth is capped at 10gbps, still probably not as good as hdmi. That was in 2018, maybe now we have better speeds vide HD Base T connectivity

But fury is awesome, so many options to connect

Surprisingly I didn’t encounter any lip sync issues too


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 04, 2020, 14:13
Yup it's the Base T version but as long as have reliable HDMI cable is good. Else this will be Overkill. It's still an excellent product depending  on user's application.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 04, 2020, 15:51
Yup it's the Base T version but as long as have reliable HDMI cable is good. Else this will be Overkill. It's still an excellent product depending  on user's application.

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Which model has the ambient light gimmick? Maestro or Diva?


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 15:56
I think that’s the average from the chart, I’m sure a full RGB will require way more bandwidth than yCbCr. There are 2 options on the ATV4K where u are able to set RGB high and RGB Low. RGB High is more for gaming stuff where the HDMI black levels are full from 0-255 (pc standard) and RGB Low (16-235) is limited for movie content mode .

OK gotcha about the RGB high and low. As for the chart I don't think its an average, but the full (maximum) bandwidth. 4:2:2 YCbCr requires two-thirds the bandwidth of "full"4:4:4: RGB. Hence as Desray says, current HDMI 18Gbps cable maxes out at either 4K/60 4:4:4 8 bits or 4K/60 4:2:2 12 bits (ie Dolby Vision). Premium Certified cable cannot support 4K/60 4:4:4 at 12 bits. That would require 25Gbits/s. Maybe your Moshu cable can do that, but virtually all TVs, UHD Players and projectors that have HDMI 2.0b interfaces will not recognize that and wouldn't know what to do with the signal. For movies you should be able to run at 4K/24 4:4:4 12 bits, which requires only 12.5Gbps and runs at the natural frame rate movies are usually shot at and would have maximum clarity assuming you can see the difference between RGB and YCbCr. Gemini Man Blu Ray would be the only movie that would benefit from 25Gbps 4K/60 4:4:4 assuming we can find both a display and Blu Ray player with a >HDMI 2.0b interface.

Here's an online calculator for bandwidth: https://k.kramerav.com/support/bwcalculator.asp (https://k.kramerav.com/support/bwcalculator.asp)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 04, 2020, 16:01
The Gemini Man in 4K60fps is stunning. Sony Projector handles it like a champ.


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I've watched movies on my BenQ projector from the ATV4K which converted them to 4K/60 4:2:2 12 bit Dolby Vision so am pretty hopeful that Gemini Man will run glitch free native when it arrives. What difference did you notice about high frame rate movies?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 04, 2020, 16:13
Which model has the ambient light gimmick? Maestro or Diva?


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its the Di~~~~ VAAAAAA lol
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 19:47
OK gotcha about the RGB high and low. As for the chart I don't think its an average, but the full (maximum) bandwidth. 4:2:2 YCbCr requires two-thirds the bandwidth of "full"4:4:4: RGB. Hence as Desray says, current HDMI 18Gbps cable maxes out at either 4K/60 4:4:4 8 bits or 4K/60 4:2:2 12 bits (ie Dolby Vision). Premium Certified cable cannot support 4K/60 4:4:4 at 12 bits. That would require 25Gbits/s. Maybe your Moshu cable can do that, but virtually all TVs, UHD Players and projectors that have HDMI 2.0b interfaces will not recognize that and wouldn't know what to do with the signal. For movies you should be able to run at 4K/24 4:4:4 12 bits, which requires only 12.5Gbps and runs at the natural frame rate movies are usually shot at and would have maximum clarity assuming you can see the difference between RGB and YCbCr. Gemini Man Blu Ray would be the only movie that would benefit from 25Gbps 4K/60 4:4:4 assuming we can find both a display and Blu Ray player with a >HDMI 2.0b interface.

Here's an online calculator for bandwidth: https://k.kramerav.com/support/bwcalculator.asp (https://k.kramerav.com/support/bwcalculator.asp)

Yea perfecto ! But I wasn’t aware if it’s even possible for 4:4:4 RGB 10bit , I thought it was only maxed out at 8bit for RGB , until I saw this chart. Good to know . I could definitely see the difference running RGB from source on the ATV4K. Still continuing for now testing phase, see if I encounter any issues with bandwidth. If I do I can always revert to yCbCr, not too bad

ATV4K is also very good, not bad for Netflix and can check the hdmi connections and bandwidth
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 04, 2020, 21:28
Bro Roni, your enthusiasm about the Vertex 2 is contagious! Even I also can’t keep up with it!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on June 04, 2020, 21:37
Hi All

Just to ask if any one can share their Sony 4K PJ setting when using Vertex2 for LLDV from a DV source like the ATV4K. It would really help to know what settings work.
Am using the 260ES yup the bottom rung but maybe can take some pointers on the settings you guys here use.

Thanks!
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: ronildoq on June 04, 2020, 22:03
Bro Roni, your enthusiasm about the Vertex 2 is contagious! Even I also can’t keep up with it!  ;D ;D ;D

Yea am enjoying myself, learning from tsammy, yourself and doggie, win too. Didn’t know hd fury had a HD base T version. So many things to learn, never ending...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 05, 2020, 07:18
Hi All

Just to ask if any one can share their Sony 4K PJ setting when using Vertex2 for LLDV from a DV source like the ATV4K. It would really help to know what settings work.
Am using the 260ES yup the bottom rung but maybe can take some pointers on the settings you guys here use.

Thanks!
No “magic” settings if that’s what you are asking. The only setting to play around with are the Max / Min luminance and MaxCLL AND FALL settings to suit your display target nits. Apart from that, there is nothing else.

Remember Vertex 2 is NOT a calibration device but to spoof a DV signal to the display from the source. Another feature is to resolve most of not all HDMI handshake issues related to EDIDs.

That’s really all there is to it. It’s a “set once-and-leave-it” device to say the least.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on June 05, 2020, 07:23
Hi All

Just to ask if any one can share their Sony 4K PJ setting when using Vertex2 for LLDV from a DV source like the ATV4K. It would really help to know what settings work.
Am using the 260ES yup the bottom rung but maybe can take some pointers on the settings you guys here use.

Thanks!

What I recommend is use the settings I posted in the first page and set your HDR settings on the projector to HDR Reference.

HDR on the Sony allows you to tonemap for higher nits. HDR Reference is an optimized mode for 1000 nits. Kinda like their grading reference monitor. By setting Dolby Vision settings in Vertex 2 for 1000 nits, this should map well with the projector in HDR Reference mode.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 05, 2020, 07:28
What I recommend is use the settings I posted in the first page and set your HDR settings on the projector to HDR Reference.

HDR on the Sony allows you to tonemap for higher nits. HDR Reference is an optimized mode for 1000 nits. Kinda like their grading reference monitor. By setting Dolby Vision settings in Vertex 2 for 1000 nits, this should map well with the projector in HDR Reference mode.
I wonder does VW260ES has that mode for HDR?


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 05, 2020, 09:03
Yea am enjoying myself, learning from tsammy, yourself and doggie, win too. Didn’t know hd fury had a HD base T version. So many things to learn, never ending...

Roni, the other two are sifus, but don't give me any credit. You are the master calibrator we all aspire to. I'm new at this but just good with Google  ;)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chimaera1982 on June 05, 2020, 11:56
I wonder does VW260ES has that mode for HDR?


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The 260ES does not have the dedicated HDR Reference preset. However based on S&V suggested settings the Cinema 1 can be set for SDR and Cinema 2 HDR. This is what I did. I didn't follow the suggested setting 100% but adjusted accordingly.

Yes I copied and paste Doggiehowser Vertex2 setting and used that with the Cinema 2 SV settings on the 260ES. I may have to do a dedicated DV preset later let's see.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 05, 2020, 16:59
Yea am enjoying myself, learning from tsammy, yourself and doggie, win too. Didn’t know hd fury had a HD base T version. So many things to learn, never ending...
Lol bro Roni, I should be the one learning from all here... not the other way round. Am happy people here can "hack" their visual pleasure using the vertex2 that's all. One thing that cannot run away is still calibration... Like you have said, you can't simply plug in minidsp and expect BEQ to appear all of sudden.

Well apart from those who can only calibrate via naked eyes, feel free to ask question here may I suggest. There are no right or wrong questions so pls don't be afraid to ask for those who are reading this message.

In fact, the more question everyone ask (rather than just view and keep question to yourselves, or try to find anywhere in other forum), the more it will benefit in our little vertex community here. 1 person might only offer 1/5 of knowledge, Imagine all chime in, it will be more than a whole already.

Sharing is caring, ask more

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 06, 2020, 16:45
Today I integrated the Vertex2 into my Logitech Harmony Hub. For those who don't know what the Harmony Hub is, its a device that can emit Bluetooth and IR and has a huge database of devices that it can control. Bluetooth is used to control devices like the Apple TV or Amazon Firestick 4K, while IR is used to control receivers, screens, projectors etc. It has codes for everything from my BenQ projector to my Yamaha Receiver and can set surround modes, or even mimick a sequence of presses on a remote. The software is clunky and difficult to use both on a PC or Phone App, but after fiddling for hours, I usually get what I want to work.

Although the Vertex2 doesn't come with a remote control, HDFury have sent the remote codes to Logitech to update their database, and once you configure Vertex2 as a Logitech Hub device, you can get it to do almost anything. It's not a replacement for the web interface because you can't see the effect of what you have done, but its important if you want to control a sequence of events. For me, its turning on the projector, Vertex2, Receiver and electric screen, then setting the audio input/mode on the receiver and telling the Vertex2 to use the correct input. I have different Logitech routines for the Apple TV, Firestick and Panny player.

Harmony Hub is also linked to Amazon Alexa, so if I say "Alexa, turn on FireTV", it will turn on all devices programmed into the Harmony Hub, including setting the Vertex2 input to Input1. If I say, "Alexa, turn on Apple TV", it will turn on everything and set the Vertex2 input to Input0. I suppose I could also put in different settings in terms of color space, nits etc, but haven't done that yet. For anyone lazy to pick up 4-5 remotes to turn on everything or go into the web interface to switch inputs (Vertex2 doesn't seem to do this reliably for some devices), then its a godsend.

I have some RF curtains, which cannot be controlled by the Harmony Hub because it doesn't have RF. To control anything RF, I recommend a device called the Broadlink RM Pro, which outputs RF, but not Bluetooth. It can also be integrated into Alexa. One day, someone will make a device with IR, RF and Bluetooth, but until then, two hubs are necessary.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 06, 2020, 22:17
Good one bro... So far I only get to select the input source to with. Do you get your harmony hub to be able to ir all the selection that preset in your harmony hub for the vertex 2?

Which ir set code did you use in the vertex 2?

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 07, 2020, 07:44
The IR codes are in the Vertex2 manual and were provided to Logitech for their Harmony database. From what I see from the Harmony app, I have a lot of options such as choosing custom EDID tables, ARC, CEC, turning OSD on and off and control over the Vertex2 buttons. All quite useful, say for the professional installer. So far I'm just using input select to automate switching correctly between my three devices on power up.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 08, 2020, 11:33
The IR codes are in the Vertex2 manual and were provided to Logitech for their Harmony database. From what I see from the Harmony app, I have a lot of options such as choosing custom EDID tables, ARC, CEC, turning OSD on and off and control over the Vertex2 buttons. All quite useful, say for the professional installer. So far I'm just using input select to automate switching correctly between my three devices on power up.
Yes there are a bunch of selections from the remote. So far I only use input selection as well. But my source is connected to the AVP first and then from AVP output into Vertex2 port, therefore when i select the input from vertex 2, there will still be audio less the display haha

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: moonlight on June 08, 2020, 19:23
At the end of the day, we are limited by the current bandwidth at 18Gbps (Premium certified) for 4K content regardless of the Color space sent out. So test YCC at 12bit HDR or RGB (full) at 8 bit will be the same.


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Hi brother Desray and Tsammyc
My projector is a 4K PJ but it is a beginner model (not high end like yours) therefore I intend to improve it.
Will this tool improve PQ? are you satisfied with its improvement?
Is it expensive and easy to use?
Indeed, It is a journey of improvement



Desray, thanks for the thoughts. I am getting this device for my projector, but I think it might be useful for non-DV TVs. I'm going to try it on my Panasonic OLED, which has HDR10+, but not DV. I'm going to try to feed it DV source (from UHD Blu Ray, ATV4K & FireStick 4K) and get it to output HDR10+ :)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 08, 2020, 21:10
Moonlight, my projector is only $2,500, whereas Desray's is $36,000 :P, so I am low end like you. To benefit from this device, you have to make sure that your 4K PJ supports HDR. If it doesn't support HDR, I don't think it will make much difference. What brand and model of PJ are you using? For me, the $600 spent is worth it as I can watch Dolby Vision in it's full glory and it looks good. People spend $10-100K on high end projectors and Lumagen processors to get something similar, so I think this is value for money, especially with low end projector  ;D
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 11, 2020, 20:03
A member asked me via PM how does a 1080p SDR converted to a Dolby Vision output looks like. I took a screenshot (from Gravity - 1080p bluray) for comparison. One of the neat features of Vertex 2 is the ability to convert SDR to DV. This enhances the color gamut to P3-DCI from the usual BT709. The most apparent difference is the brightness. SDR in its BT709 is significantly brighter while the upconverted DV is slightly dimmer but with more color hues.

SDR (BT709)
(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/gravity_sdr.JPG)

Dolby Vision (P3-DCI)
(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/vertex2/gravity_dv.JPG)

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 12, 2020, 00:12
Desray, you are playing the Blu Ray on your Oppo set to player led? On my BenQ, whenever you switch into HDR with WCG, it dims. With the BenQ, the WCG filter cuts about 30% of the light output. Not sure how your Sony handles it.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 13, 2020, 09:58
Desray, you are playing the Blu Ray on your Oppo set to player led? On my BenQ, whenever you switch into HDR with WCG, it dims. With the BenQ, the WCG filter cuts about 30% of the light output. Not sure how your Sony handles it.

Yes I'm using the Oppo 203 to playback the bluray version of this movie. Sony like any other Projectors in the market will have a slight drop in light output but in my case I'm using a laser projector, hence the light output when WCG (P3-DCI to take advantage of the DV ) is engaged is still considered very "watchable".

A little bit of info on the WCG filter that tsammyc is talking about...most projectors, including JVC N7 will engage a WCG filter in order to boost the color gamut to achieve higher P3-DCI, in so doing, it will cut down the light output by around 30%. Sony VW760ES/870Es on the hand does not use a filter. Instead, it utilizes its proprietary Triluminous color gamut to achieve P3-DCI...and because of that, the drop in lumens is much lesser compared to JVC N7. Eventually, lamp-based projector will go out of steam and one will see a drop in lumens. Having said that, I'm pretty impressed with JVC N series lamp for keeping the lumens fairly consistent even after clocking for 1,000hrs.


Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 14, 2020, 22:57
We know that old TVs don't do DV... Interestingly after "spoofing" the flags using the vertex2 as below. These are what I've got from my Nvidia Shield TV pro.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/0d17042331a4e0903c117c3718942f76.jpg)

We know that the Shield TV will not show the HDR10 not DV options if there aren't any supported sink connected to it. What happened was I force a LLDV flag to the vertex2 and the options appeared

The options came out
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/508dc9b5c96623ac9fcaaa2df9f5c1ef.jpg)

Selected the options
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/eff4e4829ad4e126d4d4490c42cfec80.jpg)

4K 60Hz options
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/bd90a46aacd0c798459061369c87a722.jpg)

Netflix showed DV movies
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/d93e48a6057d0fa3c967de86f2b53e20.jpg)

And the sink I'm using. Xiaomi TV 3 60inch. Not even HDR capable

Having said that, of course it won't play nicely until the colors been calibrated. Using it with projector is way more suitable than on TV of course.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 15, 2020, 07:11
We know that old TVs don't do DV... Interestingly after "spoofing" the flags using the vertex2 as below. These are what I've got from my Nvidia Shield TV pro.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/0d17042331a4e0903c117c3718942f76.jpg)

We know that the Shield TV will not show the HDR10 not DV options if there aren't any supported sink connected to it. What happened was I force a LLDV flag to the vertex2 and the options appeared

The options came out
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/508dc9b5c96623ac9fcaaa2df9f5c1ef.jpg)

Selected the options
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/eff4e4829ad4e126d4d4490c42cfec80.jpg)

4K 60Hz options
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/bd90a46aacd0c798459061369c87a722.jpg)

Netflix showed DV movies
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200614/d93e48a6057d0fa3c967de86f2b53e20.jpg)

And the sink I'm using. Xiaomi TV 3 60inch. Not even HDR capable

Having said that, of course it won't play nicely until the colors been calibrated. Using it with projector is way more suitable than on TV of course.

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I thought I’ve mentioned that before? You can do that to the newer Nvidia Shield TV/Pro 2019 since this new model support both HDR10 and DV now.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 15, 2020, 08:01
I thought I’ve mentioned that before? You can do that to the newer Nvidia Shield TV/Pro 2019 since this new model support both HDR10 and DV now.


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Yup.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 15, 2020, 08:03
Yup.

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So your nVidia shield tv pro finally arrived


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: winwinc81 on June 15, 2020, 09:54
So your nVidia shield tv pro finally arrived


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Lol yes yes. Managed to do some test last night on the video portion between the 3 devices (tv, Vertex2, shield). The kids been hogging Netflix whole weekend hence no chance to go explore in depth.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 15, 2020, 22:27
Got the 4K/60Hz Gemini Man UHD Blu-Ray and watched it without the Vertex2 from the Panny 820 with HDR Optimizer. What an incredibly sharp and bright movie. This one definitely can keep the WCG filter on! MaxCLL is 5000+ nits. I then watched parts of the digital Dolby Vision version on the ATV4K. The Panny 820 still looked better to me. Definitely sharper although the ATV4K is as sharp as I've ever seen on that device. Some scenery scenes looked more realistic on the Panny than the ATV4K. Even though the Panny's HDR Optimizer outperforms the LLDV stream on my projector, I stream almost everything and there is some improvement with the LLDV output over plain HDR so the Vertex2 is still a champ, especially with colors.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: chaozhoi on June 17, 2020, 20:13
Hello, are there any significant benefit if I am not using any device capable of DV or LLDV? (Simple setup Roku Stick+ and Zidoo X9S > AVR > Projector)
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 17, 2020, 21:35
Nope, unless you are a tweaker. My USD25 Firestick 4K (Black Friday sale) outputs LLDV nicely so the DV source is insignificant compared to the price of the Vertex2.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 28, 2020, 15:18
With the Vertex2 connected, the Disney+ app on the Firestick 4K reports all the newer Marvel Movies to be in Dolby Vision. I'm rewatching the Avengers series as the UHD Blu Rays were in HDR10. Overall, the Dolby Vision versions of Avengers, Infinity War and End Game are just much brighter than the HDR 10 versions and you can see more detail. Worth a rewatch. If you don't have Disney+, the Digital Codes redeemed on Vudu will have Dolby Vision as well.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 28, 2020, 16:15
With the Vertex2 connected, the Disney+ app on the Firestick 4K reports all the newer Marvel Movies to be in Dolby Vision. I'm rewatching the Avengers series as the UHD Blu Rays were in HDR10. Overall, the Dolby Vision versions of Avengers, Infinity War and End Game are just much brighter than the HDR 10 versions and you can see more detail. Worth a rewatch. If you don't have Disney+, the Digital Codes redeemed on Vudu will have Dolby Vision as well.
When is Disney Plus coming to Singapore? Heard by year end.


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 29, 2020, 15:29
Not sure about when Disney+ comes to Singapore, but the Firestick 4K (and many Android boxes) have VPN apps from various VPN providers. I use Strong VPN and it works well with Disney+ here
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 29, 2020, 19:07
Not sure about when Disney+ comes to Singapore, but the Firestick 4K (and many Android boxes) have VPN apps from various VPN providers. I use Strong VPN and it works well with Disney+ here
No lag? For VPN usually not as good for streaming high quality streaming like 4K. FWIW based on some headhunter "rumours" where Disney is hiring local based staff in Asia...it is possible Disney Plus coming to Singapore soon. We shall see.

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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on June 30, 2020, 12:09
No issue with StrongVPN and MyRepublic on Disney+ and Netflix 4K. Crystal clear 4K. So far in the main Endgame arc, rewatched Avengers, Ultron, Winter Soldier, Civil War in Dolby Vision and will finish off with Infinity War and Endgame. Superb colors and sharpness in DV.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: htng on June 30, 2020, 16:13
No issue with StrongVPN and MyRepublic on Disney+ and Netflix 4K. Crystal clear 4K. So far in the main Endgame arc, rewatched Avengers, Ultron, Winter Soldier, Civil War in Dolby Vision and will finish off with Infinity War and Endgame. Superb colors and sharpness in DV.

I guess the magic is MyRepublic. Maybe StrongVPN with any of our local telco may not work?
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on June 30, 2020, 20:30
No issue with StrongVPN and MyRepublic on Disney+ and Netflix 4K. Crystal clear 4K. So far in the main Endgame arc, rewatched Avengers, Ultron, Winter Soldier, Civil War in Dolby Vision and will finish off with Infinity War and Endgame. Superb colors and sharpness in DV.
Thanks...I’m also a MyRepublic customer. :)


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Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: mr.tangco on July 09, 2020, 12:29
Reading this thread is incredibly addictive, I  must say! May I ask for advice on a couple of questions before taking the plunge?


Yes it does. Except for the tekno3d files. I’m not sure why those files don’t kick in to LLDV, all others will


1. Am enjoying the tekno3d (and other) files played direct from usb 3.0 hdd to an LG CX. Some are encoded in HDR10+. Is it possible that the vertex 2 can upconvert the HDR10+ information to DV, as the LG CX does not do HDR10+? That would be a tremendously useful way to maximise the abilities of the OLED. 

2. From this quote:
"One of the neat features of Vertex 2 is the ability to convert SDR to DV. This enhances the color gamut to P3-DCI from the usual BT709. The most apparent difference is the brightness. SDR in its BT709 is significantly brighter while the upconverted DV is slightly dimmer but with more color hues."

As many of us have extensive BR collections, this ability to maximise the appeal of 1080p sources is really promising. Has anyone done a comparison with this conversion with the older, but still lovely DarbeeVision DVP-5000S ? This device is my 'secret sauce' for blu-ray playback and has been very impressive, even when ported over the new CX from the earlier 1080p OLED. Shame Darbee shows no sign of releasing a 4K version anytime soon...

3. One of the peculiar shortcomings of the CX is the inability to passthrough DTS audio (in any form!) from sources attached directly to it. As quite a few encodes are carrying DTS audio streams, this is a real  >:( drop in the value proposition for consumers on LG's part. Might the vertex be able to overcome this via routing the DTS audio stream to AVR? Though its still a problem as some DV content is DTS encoded, but can't be played anywhere else but through the TV if one does not have a Nvidia Shield Pro or the Oppo players.   

Thanks to the forum gurus for the insights! The upgrade bug is firmly biting...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: tsammyc on July 09, 2020, 14:36
1. The Vertex2 does not do any conversion. It's main use so far has been to enable non-DV TVs (like Samsung/Panasonic) and projectors to display Dolby Vision. It does that by bluffing certain players (Apple TV, Oppo UHD, Amazon Firestick) that it's an 2017 OLED TV, which supports low latency DV or LLDV. The player then does the DV processing and outputs a regular HDR10 picture with DV dynamic tone mapping that through the Vertex2 works on any HDR10 device. The opposite - converting HDR10+ to DV - is just not possible with any consumer device.

2. Again, the Vertex2 alone does not do SDR to DV conversion. A few players like the Apple TV 4K, Oppo UHD and Sony UHD players are able to convert SDR to DV, and subsequently output LLDV to the Vertex2. Personally, I'm not fond of the conversion, but a lot of people like it. For this to work, you must have one of the mentioned players and a Vertex2. Since you want to display your 1080P BR collection in DV, the cheapest path is a Sony UHD player and a Vertex2. A Vertex2 alone is not enough. If you want your tekno3d 1080p files to play in DV, then you need the Oppo UHD player.

3. Yes. If you plug your player into the Vertex2, you can route the video to the LG TV and the audio to the AVR. This will allow you to get DTS bit streamed to your AVR.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on July 14, 2020, 15:25
Here are some screengrabs from the movie Greyhound starring Tom Hanks...despite 4K and having Dolby Vision to boot, the image quality is far from desirable. The images are soft and lack punch with a slight hint of sepia tone to it. This is probably a deliberate choice by the Director. Hopefully, when the 4K UHD disc is released, it will have a better PQ.

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/greyhound_ATV_SDR.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/greyhound_ATV_HDR.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/greyhound_tom_hanks_bino.JPG)

(http://xtremeplace.ddns.net/images/misc/greyhound_tom_hanks.JPG)

Very disappointing...
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 14, 2020, 19:55
Could it because of imposed low bitrates?

Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: desray on July 14, 2020, 20:36
Could it because of imposed low bitrates?



It could be but then again, if I were to select Apple's Original series, the image is awesome! Only this Greyhound.
Title: Re: HD Fury
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 15, 2020, 07:26
I remember Tsammy said he played the 4K60 version of Gemini Man before.

Did you try it using the Vertex 2?

I can’t seem to get LLDV 4K60 to run on my system.

The cables work at 4K60 HDR10 when I plug directly to the projector bypassing the Vertex 2.

With the Vertex 2 in the chain, Panasonic reports that I need to have an HDR display warning screen. And the Oppo plays it in 1080p60 with HDR but the colors are wrong.

Do I need to change it down to 4:2:0 manually? I think I have it set as 4:2:2. I thought most players would automatically switch down?
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