XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Home Theater => Topic started by: Hillviewer on February 25, 2019, 16:20

Title: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on February 25, 2019, 16:20
Considering to build a basement for HT.
Need advice in a local context like dampness, ventilation, regulations.
Will appreciate advice from any bros who has experience with a basement for HT.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Goldberg on February 25, 2019, 16:28
Ventilation should not be any issue as long there’s air con. Basement tends to have high level of moisture so better get a good dehumidifier to remove them to prevent equipment turn moldy.


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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: blue_starfish on February 26, 2019, 15:23
To have a basement sound room is my dream. A basement sound room will be ideal as once I add a heavy door, I can crank up the decibels without offending family and neighbours. I can have kaki come over at any time for an extended music fest.

Things that come to my mind:
1) Extreme water-proofing of the walls to stop ground water seepage, also highlighted by Goldberg
2) Contingency in case of flooding due to burst pipe or heavy rain / surrounding area flooding. Especially if the house will be unattended some of the time. A water alarm of sorts, and maybe an automatic scavenge pump should water make its way in. You don't want the $nnn,000 worth of equipment drowned, or LP collection damaged.
3. Have a separate mains DB just for the basement.
4. The 2 basement audio rooms I visited both had low headroom. Just over 2m tall when the main house had 3m+ ceilings. This restricted the screen, speaker height and soundstage height.
5. The feeling was a tad claustrophobic. Choice of cheery colours and lights will alleviate.

My 2 cents.   
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: alf on February 26, 2019, 17:31
I have done 3 basement AV consultation works before , all the above recommendation are valid points . Have to know what to look out for on the foundation and the detail of where will be water pipes and if Swimming pool locations .

It is the best to have at a basement HT and Audio room .
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on February 28, 2019, 15:04

4. The 2 basement audio rooms I visited both had low headroom. Just over 2m tall when the main house had 3m+ ceilings. This restricted the screen, speaker height and soundstage height.
5. The feeling was a tad claustrophobic. Choice of cheery colours and lights will alleviate.

My 2 cents.   

May I know why just 2m? construction cost or bad design?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: blue_starfish on February 28, 2019, 17:45
I have no idea why the developers built homes with low headroom basement. Like you said, can be due to costs. If your intended home has a deep basement, make the most out of it.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: wizardofoz on February 28, 2019, 17:53
If your intended home has a deep basement, make the most out of it.


If it has a shallow basement dig some more out of it if you have that option :P
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on March 02, 2019, 17:39
It will be a reconstruction. So I seriously consider having a basement built to the requirement of a HT.
Just hope that there is no existing sewage pipe or other structure below ground.

Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: wechnivag on March 02, 2019, 20:58
This Rob Hahn HT will always be my reference HT. It's a serious job, designing a dedicated room from scratch.

I'm not sure that one can undertake the design ownself, without hired professional help. We really don't know what we don't know.. And by the time we realise the mistake, it's way too late to fix most things.

And honestly, I'm not sure such level of expertise exists in Singapore... Imo, it seems like many of the dedicated hobbyist builds on this forum already surpasses what an integrator in SG can spec and achieve, and likely being totally chop carrot in the process.

Maybe some ultra high end ones exist in SG ... But at those prices, does the owner really care about specs and absolute performance?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/2523385-rob-hahn-theater-build.html

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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on March 03, 2019, 16:56
After the builder built the basement, most likely I will try to fit out the HT as much as I can learn from this forum and AVSforum.

Thank you for the link.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: wechnivag on March 03, 2019, 17:46
Noise floor is very important and difficult to achieve for dedicated room. It involves decisions like putting the aircon fan coil unit in a separate room or hush box. Similarly the projector. Otherwise, will ever be able to achieve better than NC 35 or NC40..

Imax specs Nc25 minimum. Rob Hahn is like NC negative 10 or better?



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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on March 04, 2019, 16:54
Projector in a separate room or hush box because of the noise from the projector fan?

I plan to use ducted air con. So outlet and return in HT but fan coil outside?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: petetherock on March 04, 2019, 17:41
Wow bro
Moving to landed?
Nice choice 👍
There’s a bro here with a wonderful basement den. Lives in Bukit Timah.
Am waiting for him to come in and share.. awesome den.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on March 05, 2019, 20:48
yeah...moving to landed.

can't wait for the bro to share his fantastic basement den. actually, literally, as have to confirm the design with the architect in these 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: wechnivag on March 22, 2019, 10:18
Projector in a separate room or hush box because of the noise from the projector fan?

I plan to use ducted air con. So outlet and return in HT but fan coil outside?
Sorry didn't catch up on this thread.

Basically for any room size and volume, there's a certain minimum airflow rate to maintain air exchange quality per code requirements.

So that requires a certain airflow velocity in your Aircon ducts. If you just leave it to standard sizing, the airflow velocity will be quite high and might be audible as noise. Dedicated noise floor design will have to calculate all this and size the inlet and outlet ducts accordingly. Also think about symmetry of the inlet and outlet duct locations. And noise from the fan coil travelling down the duct into the room, might need some form of muffler in the duct too.

Along those lines, projector fans are noisy too. Especially if it's located somewhere above your head.

It really depends how far you want to go. Acoustic treatment of the room is a big consideration for dedicated build too, obviously.

And light controls for best PQ. The screen is white. The projector cannot project 'black'. Your black is only as good as the amount of light reflecting back from the room (from the PJ image) and back to the screen. Perhaps some ALR screen can help with this, vs going a total black bat cave.

Our hearing and vision is incredibly sensitive. We can actually see in starlight on a moonless night, how faint is that. When the noise floor goes way down, and the ear has time to adjust to that, the detail, nuances and dynamics of the sound will be off the charts.

But, there is a big difference between low noise floor and an anechoic chamber. A low noise floor in a properly treated acoustic space still provides rich spatial cues via diffuse delayed reflections from any sound that is generated, your  breathing, creaking of the sofa, foot steps etc. It allows the ear-brain to judge the size and distance to the walls etc and all is good. You feel good sitting there in the quiet in the sofa. No ringing or roaring in the ears, because you can still hear the space very clearly. Very Quiet, yet spacious and rich ambient feel.

 In an anechoic chamber, any sound reaches the walls and is totally absorbed. No sound comes back except what is reflected off your own body. That is very disconcerting to the ear - brain as it cannot grasp the sense of the space through the reflected sound.

Cheers!

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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on March 22, 2019, 13:29
Nice sharing again Gavin ! I have to second whatever advice given, it really brings up the experience to another level when the room noise floor is Low and acoustics done right. The room itself accounts for 60% of the overall listening experience. This part if done right will be rewarding.

You might also wanna consider having a raised wooden platform, to trap bass and at the same time provide for tactile feedback from Low frequency .

Something like this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/9cdd86987c6990892847843bbfb7b923.jpg)

The above one is an smt tune bass trap

Can be achieved trying this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/b152d018fa82ccc801fd0b76099846f5.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/b32c8ee05976a9abeb78d8e8a7d7ab1e.jpg)

Or this above, the experience is very good, another level for tactile from Low frequencies


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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on March 26, 2019, 23:47
Thanks for all the advice!

Will make the basement higher to allow for raised floor and acoustic panel on the ceiling.

What is the general ratio of absorption panel vs reflector on the walls and ceiling?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on March 27, 2019, 13:33
There is no general ratio. But I’d focus on a few things

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/59310c34eb5e7a1b7dc39662ff49ba8e.jpg)

Looking at the pic above, u will observe many things are done right

1) raised floor, see the holes circled in blue, works as a tuned bass trap

2) look at the green circled areas. The surrounds and back surrounds are flanked by diffusors + they use in wall speakers. The benefits of in wall is that there is no boundary interference. So it eliminates a lot of the first reflection points commonly faced by other speakers or those mounted on wall. PS: there is a difference between speakers On wall vs In wall

3) above you, circled in red, can be done like a suspended ceiling. This area, I prefer to have absorption. But again if you have your Atmos speakers flanking right and left above u, diffusion May work better

4) look at the purple, suspended ceiling that works as a bass trap with enough air GAP

5) behind MLP that black piece material , best to have 18-20” thick trap / absorption
panels

6) finally use corner bass traps for all trihedral corners or you can use dihedral mount like this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190327/119d16d047534d6354a02eab5ff0fd12.jpg)

That is all that u will ever need, to set up the base for your room. The rest you can add or remove and decide according

Generally if you follow this, you should be able to achieve a very high quality listening room


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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 08, 2019, 19:01
great thanks (delayed  :-[. was busy)

Will start to source for these March 2020.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 08, 2019, 19:09

2) look at the green circled areas. The surrounds and back surrounds are flanked by diffusors + they use in wall speakers. The benefits of in wall is that there is no boundary interference. So it eliminates a lot of the first reflection points commonly faced by other speakers or those mounted on wall. PS: there is a difference between speakers On wall vs In wall

As it is a basement, I do not think I can dig out a hole in the wall. What if I create another layer of wall using gypsum board and rock wool to find the air space?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: wechnivag on April 08, 2019, 22:02
As it is a basement, I do not think I can dig out a hole in the wall. What if I create another layer of wall using gypsum board and rock wool to find the air space?
This works pretty well, the false wall acts like a low bass membrane trap and absorbs bass energy better than a concrete wall.

It is very important fully seal the wall around the speaker baffle. It cannot be a speaker sitting in a cavity in the wall, it will cause very bad notch cancellation as well as resonance in that cavity. Also, the speakers used need to be designed for baffle mounting, as these designs theoretically need no BSC in the crossover. So you can't really just use any bookshelf speaker designed for free space and mount it in a baffle wall, the BSC tuned for free space will sound too bass heavy and thick in the baffle wall.

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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 09, 2019, 12:41
What you can do is have leaky wall with designs, or something that looks like this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/0c1458cfbba66ccc1c63e0511156f3ee.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/233fd20a6f133120310ac65845a5f207.jpg)

Avoid barewall if possible


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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 12, 2019, 16:49

It is very important fully seal the wall around the speaker baffle. It cannot be a speaker sitting in a cavity in the wall, it will cause very bad notch cancellation as well as resonance in that cavity. Also, the speakers used need to be designed for baffle mounting, as these designs theoretically need no BSC in the crossover. So you can't really just use any bookshelf speaker designed for free space and mount it in a baffle wall, the BSC tuned for free space will sound too bass heavy and thick in the baffle wall.

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Fully sealed using the same gypsum board? or other material?

Will look for in-wall speakers. Most likely Monitor Audio  as most of my speakers are MA.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 12, 2019, 16:50
What you can do is have leaky wall with designs, or something that looks like this

Avoid barewall if possible


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Look nice. WAF as well.

Any material to look out for? Any material to avoid?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 16, 2019, 21:58
Look nice. WAF as well.

Any material to look out for? Any material to avoid?

You should pop by my place when u r free, have a look and experience yourself before u actually proceed to build your theatre room, I can share more with you on room acoustics. Also check with Wechnivag, his room is also very good, nicely done acoustically , u will benefit greatly
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 17, 2019, 14:51
You should pop by my place when u r free, have a look and experience yourself before u actually proceed to build your theatre room, I can share more with you on room acoustics. Also check with Wechnivag, his room is also very good, nicely done acoustically , u will benefit greatly

Thanks for the invite. pm sent.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 18, 2019, 22:10
Just came back from ronildoq's place.

Hard to describe in words. But truly amazing and very impressed.
The scene from Quiet Place when the monsters entered the house brings out a wide spectrum of frequency and loudness. Almost like a totally different movie to me!

At this stage, I will inform the architect to
1. Width to be 6.5m instead of 5m. Length shortens from 9m to 8.5m. Ceiling height raw 3.7m, 3.2m with ceiling grid.
2. Will focus on one row instead of 2 rows. In fact, only once in a while will need another row, will just throw some bean bags around.
3. Install ceiling grid. Something I took for granted only install in office. The ceiling grid gives great flexibility of installing and changing of various acoustic panels and speakers.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 18, 2019, 22:52
Just came back from ronildoq's place.

Hard to describe in words. But truly amazing and very impressed.
The scene from Quiet Place when the monsters entered the house brings out a wide spectrum of frequency and loudness. Almost like a totally different movie to me!

At this stage, I will inform the architect to
1. Width to be 6.5m instead of 5m. Length shortens from 9m to 8.5m. Ceiling height raw 3.7m, 3.2m with ceiling grid.
2. Will focus on one row instead of 2 rows. In fact, only once in a while will need another row, will just throw some bean bags around.
3. Install ceiling grid. Something I took for granted only install in office. The ceiling grid gives great flexibility of installing and changing of various acoustic panels and speakers.


Seems like The Quiet Place has become the proverbial demo clip to showcase the dynamics and how "truly quiet"  your HT system can achieve :P
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 18, 2019, 23:35
Seems like The Quiet Place has become the proverbial demo clip to showcase the dynamics and how "truly quiet"  your HT system can achieve :P

Just watched that scene again. My HT system failed  :'(. Cannot hear the clock ticking. The wife breathing not as clear. Monster moving did not shake the sofa. A lot of improvement required.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: tigerman on April 18, 2019, 23:36
hope u not using Marantz AVR in the basement...
it will fail because of fungus growth on the internal pcb board of the Marantz.
but to prevent fungus growth, "according to Marantz local SG tech, pls cover your AVR"
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: mutant on April 19, 2019, 00:23
Seems like The Quiet Place has become the proverbial demo clip to showcase the dynamics and how "truly quiet"  your HT system can achieve :P
Where can we download this demo clip to test?  ;D
Thanks!
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 19, 2019, 06:19
Just watched that scene again. My HT system failed  :'(. Cannot hear the clock ticking. The wife breathing not as clear. Monster moving did not shake the sofa. A lot of improvement required.

Yes for this clip ( assuming Roni is playing the same clip and scenes I’ve showcased to him during his visit to my place) is certainly there...this clip is a good at testing the noise floor and how “silent” are your speakers and your listening environment. This is my fave go to demo scene for every start of my demo session.

The trick to putting demo scenes to showcase your home theater setup is not to play loud and noisy action scenes first as you need your audience to “acclimatize” to your setup and your listening environment. Start with something gradual but still satisfyingly  immersive.



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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 19, 2019, 06:21
Where can we download this demo clip to test?  ;D
Thanks!

I will try to upload this clip for sharing later today. I have stitched 2 separate scenes into one clip for demo purpose.


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Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ngsk on April 19, 2019, 07:58
Where can we download this demo clip to test?  ;D
Thanks!
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rvcKObhnq3CQJs4zrdreyaNs5ew4U7_y?usp=sharing
Uploaded by bro ronildoq on pg 2 of AVSForum Demo Vault - Link Sharing
Great dynamic range.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 19, 2019, 08:30
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rvcKObhnq3CQJs4zrdreyaNs5ew4U7_y?usp=sharing
Uploaded by bro ronildoq on pg 2 of AVSForum Demo Vault - Link Sharing
Great dynamic range.

Thanks for sharing...save me the trouble :)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 19, 2019, 09:12
Just came back from ronildoq's place.

Hard to describe in words. But truly amazing and very impressed.
The scene from Quiet Place when the monsters entered the house brings out a wide spectrum of frequency and loudness. Almost like a totally different movie to me!

At this stage, I will inform the architect to
1. Width to be 6.5m instead of 5m. Length shortens from 9m to 8.5m. Ceiling height raw 3.7m, 3.2m with ceiling grid.
2. Will focus on one row instead of 2 rows. In fact, only once in a while will need another row, will just throw some bean bags around.
3. Install ceiling grid. Something I took for granted only install in office. The ceiling grid gives great flexibility of installing and changing of various acoustic panels and speakers.

Hope it helped. Now you will have an idea of what to do and how you wanna go ahead and plan your future set up, cos once you fix it no turning back. Very hard to undo. Glad it helped and pleased to know you enjoyed the session !

When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself. That scene has the best dynamic range, especially good for testing power amplifier
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: kennyluck2000 on April 19, 2019, 09:20
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rvcKObhnq3CQJs4zrdreyaNs5ew4U7_y?usp=sharing
Uploaded by bro ronildoq on pg 2 of AVSForum Demo Vault - Link Sharing
Great dynamic range.

Thanks ngsk for sharing... cool... 8)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: kennyluck2000 on April 19, 2019, 09:22
 
Hope it helped. Now you will have an idea of what to do and how you wanna go ahead and plan your future set up, cos once you fix it no turning back. Very hard to undo. Glad it helped and pleased to know you enjoyed the session !

When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself. That scene has the best dynamic range, especially good for testing power amplifier

+1 totally agree  ;)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 19, 2019, 09:36
...
When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself. That scene has the best dynamic range, especially good for testing power amplifier

I can't help but wonder why you said When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself.

Does it mean REW , an active bass trap,  a 5k costs power conitioner , a top notch AV processor, and 4 big 18 inch beasts are unnecessary?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: kennyluck2000 on April 19, 2019, 10:01
I can't help but wonder why you said When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself.

Does it mean REW , an active bass trap,  a 5k costs power conitioner , a top notch AV processor, and 4 big 18 inch beasts are unnecessary?

Bro Bad English that's a very interesting question... :D

I have visit Byran's place twice.
1st visit was to audit the Active bass trap..
2nd visit basically all equipment is the same after the make over for the room treatment. The sound quality is very much different from my last visit..  :-*
As for the equipment wise and type of bass is up to user preference... no good or bad... just preference.. 8)

Heard a lot from Winthur your stereo setup is good.. cool... 8)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 19, 2019, 10:24
I can't help but wonder why you said When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself.

Does it mean REW , an active bass trap,  a 5k costs power conitioner , a top notch AV processor, and 4 big 18 inch beasts are unnecessary?

Yea they all contribute to the overall experience. Given a choice, I would pick the room above everything else, and the SMT wings.

That was my goal in 2019 after visiting the studio in HK, lowering the noise floor, using strategically placed acoustics material within the room. That was the first thing I noticed that had the biggest improvement , the room itself with a Low noise floor.

Hillviewer would have an idea how a 15 year old air cond contributed to the overall experience, the noise. So yea, the purpose for the visit was to demonstrate how the room contributes so he doesn’t make any mistakes with his new basement theatre room
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 19, 2019, 10:30
Yea they all contribute to the overall experience. Given a choice, I would pick the room above everything else, and the SMT wings.

That was my goal in 2019 after visiting the studio in HK, lowering the noise floor, using strategically placed acoustics material within the room. That was the first thing I noticed that had the biggest improvement , the room itself with a Low noise floor.

Hillviewer would have an idea how a 15 year old air cond contributed to the overall experience, the noise. So yea, the purpose for the visit was to demonstrate how the room contributes so he doesn’t make any mistakes with his new basement theatre room

Wow...your Air-cond still going strong after 15 yrs?! You must really know how to maintain it. Mine, I've changed no less than 3 times over a decade alone.

Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 19, 2019, 10:32
Bro Bad English that's a very interesting question... :D

I have visit Byran's place twice.
1st visit was to audit the Active bass trap..
2nd visit basically all equipment is the same after the make over for the room treatment. The sound quality is very much different from my last visit..  :-*
As for the equipment wise and type of bass is up to user preference... no good or bad... just preference.. 8)

Heard a lot from Winthur your stereo setup is good.. cool... 8)

With due respect, 

Your comparison will be only valid,  if there were nothing had been changed except the room treatments.

I've visited his place last year twice. And I did tell him very straight : your system lack of fidelity and I did invite him to show what were the fidelity ( one or two) that his system was lacking I.e wind , rain.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 19, 2019, 10:39
Yea they all contribute to the overall experience. Given a choice, I would pick the room above everything else, and the SMT wings.

...

So the    When the noise floor is Low, every single detail will just present itself statement is not technically and politically correct but it's your reference.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Jason Yeo on April 19, 2019, 10:41
Yes for this clip ( assuming Roni is playing the same clip and scenes I’ve showcased to him during his visit to my place) is certainly there...this clip is a good at testing the noise floor and how “silent” are your speakers and your listening environment. This is my fave go to demo scene for every start of my demo session.

The trick to putting demo scenes to showcase your home theater setup is not to play loud and noisy action scenes first as you need your audience to “acclimatize” to your setup and your listening environment. Start with something gradual but still satisfyingly  immersive.



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Lol, same here . I like to start off with "A quiet place" too during demo .
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 19, 2019, 10:42
Lol, same here . I like to start off with "A quiet place" too during demo .

LoL...guess we share the same sentiments here. :)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 19, 2019, 10:43
Wow...your Air-cond still going strong after 15 yrs?! You must really know how to maintain it. Mine, I've changed no less than 3 times over a decade alone.

Wah so fast ? I’m using a Hitachi air conditioner, still going strong for 15 years and counting. It still doesn’t wanna break down. So no reason to change
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: synthesis on April 19, 2019, 10:46
Hillviewer would have an idea how a 15 year old air cond contributed to the overall experience, the noise.

My Mitsubishi Starmex aircon is 15yr old and still cool and quiet. 
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 19, 2019, 10:48

My Mitsubishi Starmex aircon is 15yr old and still cool and quiet.

Yea man, Mitsubishi is the best, very quiet and silent. I’d go for that when mine breaks down.....
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 19, 2019, 10:50

My Mitsubishi Starmex aircon is 15yr old and still cool and quiet. 

Yes agreed...Mitsubishi Starmex is very good! My sister using it for coming to 7 yrs now (to me, this is considered very good)!. Changed from 2 Samsung to 2 Panasonic air cond units...Samsung is quieter than Panasonic imo but Panasonic is much more powerful and able to cool my room faster and then maintain that temp.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Jason Yeo on April 19, 2019, 10:51
Wah so fast ? I’m using a Hitachi air conditioner, still going strong for 15 years and counting. It still doesn’t wanna break down. So no reason to change

Imho,if changing aircon can minimise the noise level contributing to HT , I think it is a good investment especially when you have done a lot to lower the floor noise in your setup.

I changed mine due to this "excuse" , lol.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 19, 2019, 10:56
Imho,if changing aircon can minimise the noise level contributing to HT , I think it is a good investment especially when you have done a lot to lower the floor noise in your setup.

I changed mine due to this "excuse" , lol.

Hahaha, perfect excuse !! Almost about time now, anyway it’s already 15 years in use . At one stage I wanted to change, there were some new versions that came with haze smaller particle filters, wanted to go with that, then the haze ceased... lol
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Jason Yeo on April 19, 2019, 11:18
It is better to change aircon as early as possible coz along the way , we might change/add treatment to reduce floor noise . Changing new air con after donkey years likely need to change air con pipes too and drill holes. If there is treatment covering the old pipes , then small become big project just to change aircon.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 19, 2019, 12:38
...
1. Width to be 6.5m instead of 5m. Length shortens from 9m to 8.5m. Ceiling height raw 3.7m, 3.2m with ceiling grid.
...

Since you are in total control on dimension of the room,  I suggest you study golden room measurement.  I am not qualify to explain here but your room perhaps , if you followed golden room,  need no treatment.


Addendum

In case if you are lazy


  https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/critical-room-dimensions/  (https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/critical-room-dimensions/)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 20, 2019, 11:30
Yea and I forgot to mention that previously before the room treatment, the noise floor levels in the hall averaged about 44db, vs now where it averages about 25-30db, so that’s a lot better now after the room acoustics

Huge benefits with a lower noise floor now ...
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: sdds on April 20, 2019, 11:54
Yes , room acoustic and a quiet room really helps , do it right for the first time and then whenever equipment prefer will shine or perform to its best .
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 20, 2019, 12:17
Yes , room acoustic and a quiet room really helps , do it right for the first time and then whenever equipment prefer will shine or perform to its best .

My room is L shaped with 10 corners with no treatment, no carpet , bare floor with tiles.   Once you clap you can hear the echo. Right side wall is false wall. My flat is next to PIE. Yet can't afford 5k power conditioner let alone 15k processor.

So my system must be  reproducing rubbish according to your theorem.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 20, 2019, 12:39
My room is L shaped with 10 corners with no treatment, no carpet , bare floor with tiles.   Once you clap you can hear the echo. Right side wall is false wall. My flat is next to PIE. U can't afford 5k power conditioner let alone 15k processor.

So my system must be damn bad according to your theorem.

Bro, don’t take it negatively. No one meant that. It’s a choice, just like how u don’t like audyssey, some prefer to use it. Nothing wrong really. In this case, TS wanted to experience how a set up sounds with acoustics and without , before building his room. At the end of the day, choice is still his, we can’t enforced our theories onto it.

Acoustics are genuine, proven with measurable data and actual listening. Not just hearsay or some unfounded claims.

End of the day, most important is to be happy with what u hear. If you like your set up with no treatment on, nothing wrong really. Many don’t use acoustics. But definitely no one is saying or meant that a room without acoustics or treatment will sound BAD
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 20, 2019, 12:45
Bro, don’t take it negatively. No one meant that. It’s a choice, just like how u don’t like audyssey, some prefer to use it. Nothing wrong really. In this case, TS wanted to experience how a set up sounds with acoustics and without , before building his room. At the end of the day, choice is still his, we can’t enforced our theories onto it.

Acoustics are genuine, proven with measurable data and actual listening. Not just hearsay or some unfounded claims.

End of the day, most important is to be happy with what u hear. If you like your set up with no treatment on, nothing wrong really. Many don’t use acoustics. But definitely no one is saying or meant that a room without acoustics or treatment will sound BAD


You have been to my place so how ?

Bad huh ;D
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 20, 2019, 12:51

You have been to my place so how ?

Bad huh ;D

Bro, your place is excellent! Very good. 

But we are trying to help the TS here, come to a decision if there is need to have a quiet room with Low noise floor levels, and how we can help him achieve that, together with other benefits that come with it. Of course if cost is not an issue then it will benefit him greatly when the room noise floor is Low
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 20, 2019, 17:07

You have been to my place so how ?

Bad huh ;D


Bro BadEnglish, are you free tmr? Any chance that I can experience your home theater setup? Hope to learn from you. Do PM me your address :)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 20, 2019, 17:44
Bro BadEnglish, are you free tmr? Any chance that I can experience your home theater setup? Hope to learn from you. Do PM me your address :)


Bro BE, thanks for the invite.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 20, 2019, 18:05
After visiting BE, my next member visit will be Bro Whitesox and then in no particular order - Petetherock, Ralfale's Storm Audio and lastly a revisit to bro Roni to experience the Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect EQ.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 22, 2019, 11:27
Just to add a few non-technical observation at ronildoq's place.
1. When both of us stopped talking, I can hear our breathing.
2. the distance from the side speakers are as important as the distance from the front.
3. Impressed with the ATMOS speakers. Can hear midbass. I guess it is a combination of the treatment to the ceiling and the crossover?

Also, plan to visit Petertherock as well for both reno and audio. heheeehee.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 22, 2019, 11:47
Since you are in total control on dimension of the room,  I suggest you study golden room measurement.  I am not qualify to explain here but your room perhaps , if you followed golden room,  need no treatment.


Addendum

In case if you are lazy


  https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/critical-room-dimensions/  (https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/critical-room-dimensions/)

I am indeed lazy...lol... thanks for the link.

After listening at ronildoq, I realized that width is important as well.
Starting with the width 6.5m, for a 2m 3-seater sofa, using the classic Golden Ratio is 1 x 1.6 x 2.56 (Height, Width, Length), I will have a height of 4.06m and a length of 10.4m. It will be too tall ( more to dig for a basement as well) and too long of the shape of my land and where I want to put the basement.

Will there be a big problem is I stick to the 3.2m x 6.5 x 8.5m?

Also, how about the symmetrical and nonparallel walls mentioned in the article?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 22, 2019, 12:25
I am indeed lazy...lol... thanks for the link.

After listening at ronildoq, I realized that width is important as well.
Starting with the width 6.5m, for a 2m 3-seater sofa, using the classic Golden Ratio is 1 x 1.6 x 2.56 (Height, Width, Length), I will have a height of 4.06m and a length of 10.4m. It will be too tall ( more to dig for a basement as well) and too long of the shape of my land and where I want to put the basement.

Will there be a big problem is I stick to the 3.2m x 6.5 x 8.5m?

Also, how about the symmetrical and nonparallel walls mentioned in the article?

I had a room measured 11L 7W 3H. The width was reduced to 6.5m at back of the room.  Although I wanted to reduced height in front, didn't mange it.

Speakers were 4m apart that left about 1m on each side. The room size was determined by choice of speaker I was going to use. I chose the room based on speaker and it placement.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: mutant on April 22, 2019, 14:18
Thanks for sharing...save me the trouble :)
Thanks Desray and Ngsk!
Tonight will download and test it  ;D
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 22, 2019, 14:34

Speakers were 4m apart that left about 1m on each side.

Pardon me, are these the front or side speakers?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 22, 2019, 15:27
Pardon me, are these the front or side speakers?

Front  ;D they were huge almost 1m wide.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on April 22, 2019, 16:26
Front  ;D they were huge almost 1m wide.

wow! wider than my fridge :D  . what are these speakers?

How about your side surround?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 22, 2019, 16:36
wow! wider than my fridge :D  . what are these speakers?

How about your side surround?

Oh that room was pure stereo : Tannoy Westminster
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: whitesox on April 22, 2019, 19:34
After visiting BE, my next member visit will be Bro Whitesox and then in no particular order - Petetherock, Ralfale's Storm Audio and lastly a revisit to bro Roni to experience the Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect EQ.

Hello Bro,
I am so honored. My door is always open to you.. Welcome you bro...
When do you want to come? if possible during the weekend
 :)
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: whitesox on April 22, 2019, 20:39
Lol, same here . I like to start off with "A quiet place" too during demo .

Bro...
I wonder why I can feel wind 'brushing' against my ears despite not being able to locate any fan there and feel my cheeks being blown and pushed,
yet your sub's location is lower than MLP...
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 22, 2019, 20:40
Hello Bro,
I am so honored. My door is always open to you.. Welcome you bro...
When do you want to come? if possible during the weekend
 :)

Yes...it will be weekend. Most likely Sat. I will arrange with you soon.
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: whitesox on April 22, 2019, 20:42
Bro BadEnglish, are you free tmr? Any chance that I can experience your home theater setup? Hope to learn from you. Do PM me your address :)

Halloo.... no time chat over dim kopi liow with me huh?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: desray on April 26, 2019, 18:53
Just came back from BadEnglish's place. I am very impressed by his 2 channel setup. As for home theater, he is one of those who don't subscribe to the Audyssey EQ as he has his own reasons which I totally respect.

More importantly thanks for hosting me and I've learned a lot from you even though it is a short demo session. I see you are a huge fan of coaxial driver. What do you think of Andrew Jone's speakers which also featured coaxial drivers?
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: BadEnglish on April 26, 2019, 20:12
I'm a conservative  ;D
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: ronildoq on April 29, 2019, 18:35
After visiting BE, my next member visit will be Bro Whitesox and then in no particular order - Petetherock, Ralfale's Storm Audio and lastly a revisit to bro Roni to experience the Lyngdorf's RoomPerfect EQ.

Happy to host you again, u will be the best person to hear and judge yourself. When u came previously, there wasn’t any acoustics and no focus on lowering noise floor

And now it’s with carefully placed and selected type of acoustics, together with effort to lower the noise floor. A bit unfair also with the Lyngdorf but the changes made in the living room is significant to the overall experience

Let you hear it yourself and be the judge
Title: Re: Basement for Home Theater
Post by: Hillviewer on June 13, 2019, 18:08
After 2.5 months of design work, we are able to create another room at level 3.

It is a trapezium shape of a length of 8.5m and width of 6.3m at the seating area and 4m at the screen end. finished ceiling height is 3.2m generally. From after back of the sofa, the ceiling will slant down 45 degrees from 3.2m to 1.7m. Behind the screen, there is a depth of 1m with a ceiling of 2.5m.

I decide to use this room for home theater as it eliminates the additional cost of a basement and other potential issues with a basement. The saving of basement cost ( solely to build for home theater) can be used to upgrade my equipment heheee... ;D

So no more basement for home theater.

Now I research how to have better roof sound insulation so that the listening is not affected on a raining day.


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