XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Home Theater => Topic started by: sdds on December 27, 2018, 10:53

Title: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sdds on December 27, 2018, 10:53
Not sure how many bros  are having lyngdorf products .Just to share on this wonderful products .

I got this Lyngdorf MP 50  cinema processor from Ohm Sound  since last year Nov 2018 . The audiophile sound , room perfect EQ and ease of use is the main feature of this processor . Room perfect EQ is good for those that have minimum room treatment in their room or living hall

(https://i.postimg.cc/Gt9Hy2JK/lyndorf.jpg)

http://lyngdorf.com/

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrPgxBhPiRcNlMAwBQj4gt.;_ylu=X3oDMTEyc3NuZDhqBGNvbG8Dc2czBHBvcwM0BHZ0aWQDUzAzMjZfMQRzZWMDc3I-/RV=2/RE=1545907937/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.avforums.com%2fthreads%2flyngdorf-mp-50-surround-sound-processor-review.2138057%2f/RK=2/RS=KalFzqVL4fEwTlVYWnKkvFWOGlA-

https://hometheaterreview.com/lyngdorf-mp-50-av-preamp-reviewed/





Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on December 27, 2018, 11:47
Finally one lyngdorf thread ! I’m one of them !! Hooray !! Can’t wait...

Finish my acoustic room work first, will share our journey here !!
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: sdds on December 27, 2018, 12:27
Welcome to the family . The rest of the processor at lydnorf or higher range,we have acrus , storm, datasat , trinnov , jbl systhnesis, theta.
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: flowerpot on December 27, 2018, 13:24
I first heard the Lyndorf at the Hong Kong AV show 2018. They pair it with Raidho X1 or XT1 cannot remember with 2 subs i think. The sound was impressive.
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: desray on December 28, 2018, 06:44
Thanks sdds for creating this thread. Hope to see more members using it. But creating awareness is the first step and both you and Ron will lead the way.



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Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: Jag on December 28, 2018, 07:46
How much does it cost?
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: sdds on December 28, 2018, 08:01
Listed price $15k , i got mine for $14k.
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on December 28, 2018, 08:37
Jag, I got mine much lower, now that a year has passed. I’ll PM you if u r interested...

The built in DAC is very good, high quality components used, the design is apparently very good, especially good in the digital domain

Was comparing between the storm, NAD m17v2, lyngdorf... mainly the price, stability and performance was the determining factor I went for the lyngdorf

There is a lot of processor out there that claim to do discrete 9.1.6, but none has the Dolby Codes for 9.1.6. All 7.1.4 or 5.1.6 matrixed post processing...
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: desray on December 28, 2018, 11:28
Sounds like Jag might be interested to get it? LoL.


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Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: whitesox on December 28, 2018, 16:31
Dont forget this piece also...
Look at their CDP, speaker, and technology... OMG, room correction for their CD Player also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd-9_f9YgsE

Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: sdds on January 10, 2019, 19:08
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3034194-review-comparison-anthem-avm-60-lexicon-mc-10-nad-m17v2-lyngdorf-mp-50-a.html?amp=1
Title: Re: Lyndorf thread
Post by: kaydee6 on January 10, 2019, 19:27
Title wrong spelling.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sdds on January 10, 2019, 20:08
thanks for pointing out
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 11, 2019, 13:30
Lyngdorf MP-50 coming soon.....

Manual here -- > http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/MP-50-ENG-Manual-August-2018.pdf
White Paper -- > http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MP-50-White-Paper-November-2017.pdf


Lets talk about the Cons first. 4 identified so far

1. Doesnt do Full 4k, only 4k 30hz due to bandwidth limitation 10.2g, though boards are HDMI 2.0a. Unless upgraded to new HDMI 2.1 board, which Lyngdorf has confirmed will be available at a separate cost. Does it matter to me? No. Im using Oppo HDMI out directly in to the OLED. Weakness circumvented

2. Doesnt have analog RCA connections in. Does it matter to me? No. I prefer using this with balanced cable. In fact i prefer it not have any RCA connection from a design point of view. A simple and very good cable ill be using will be the Mogami 2549 with Neutrik Gold Pins, shipped in straight from Japan.

3. Doesnt do Discrete 9.1.6. Only Matrixed 9.1.6. Does it matter to me? No. Dolby hasnt released any of the codes for 9.1.6. So every single AVR in the market now is doing post processing 9.1.6 or however many channels. Ill be hooking this up in a 7.4.8 configuration. A matrixed Centre Top channel (it takes the signal off top front + top back and does post processing to Top Centre). The other front height channel will be getting the same signal as the Top Front vide a XLR Female to 2 Male Splitter.

4. Rolls off the bass < 20hz . This is apparently now fixed with the new firmware 3.09 onwards. Great!

5. Doesn’t support Dolby Atmos vide ARC. Workaround would be to use the Oppo 205 arc and then pass through the signal to the mp50 hdmi in. Post processing must be set to Dolby upmixer ( this triggers the Atmos signal)

6. Works well only with internet explorer browser. Doesn’t work well with Firefox or chrome. When updating firmware or resetting to factory default, always use “ Internet explorer” browser instead of the other browsers that sometimes don’t seem to work

7. EDID on the mp50 still doesn’t conform to international standards on fw 3.09. Atmos sometimes doesn’t kick in. Workaround would be to play a Dolby digital encoded file first, then playback that Atmos file again then Atmos will kick in. Happens sometimes

all of which doesnt matter to me...... Will report further if i find out about the cons. I didnt classify expensive as a con, because i got it at a good deal and for what this processor can bring to the entire set up and listening experience, its good!

Will talk about whats so special about this MP-50 soon... on Paper & Real life experience... Stay Tuned..... Something very interesting with Bass Management coming up....
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: lampsy86 on January 11, 2019, 16:24
Lyngdorf MP-50 coming soon.....

Manual here -- > http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/MP-50-ENG-Manual-August-2018.pdf
White Paper -- > http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MP-50-White-Paper-November-2017.pdf


Lets talk about the Cons first. 4 identified so far

1. Doesnt do Full 4k, only 4k 30hz due to bandwidth limitation 10.2g, though boards are HDMI 2.0a. Unless upgraded to new HDMI 2.1 board, which Lyngdorf has confirmed will be available at a separate cost. Does it matter to me? No. Im using Oppo HDMI out directly in to the OLED. Weakness circumvented

2. Doesnt have analog RCA connections in. Does it matter to me? No. I prefer using this with balanced cable. In fact i prefer it not have any RCA connection from a design point of view. A simple and very good cable ill be using will be the Mogami 2549 with Neutrik Gold Pins, shipped in straight from Japan.

3. Doesnt do Discrete 9.1.6. Only Matrixed 9.1.6. Does it matter to me? No. Dolby hasnt released any of the codes for 9.1.6. So every single AVR in the market now is doing post processing 9.1.6 or however many channels. Ill be hooking this up in a 7.4.8 configuration. A matrixed Centre Top channel (it takes the signal off top front + top back and does post processing to Top Centre). The other front height channel will be getting the same signal as the Top Front vide a XLR Female to 2 Male Splitter.

4. Rolls off the bass < 20hz . This is apparently now fixed with the new firmware 3.09 onwards. Great!

all of which doesnt matter to me...... Will report further if i find out about the cons. I didnt classify expensive as a con, because i got it at a good deal and for what this processor can bring to the entire set up and listening experience, its good!

Will talk about whats so special about this MP-50 soon... on Paper & Real life experience... Stay Tuned..... Something very interesting with Bass Management coming up....

Official quote from Storm Audio

"The StormAudio processor range supports from 16 up to 32 high-quality audio channels as well as legacy sound formats and the leading 3D audio formats currently available; Auro-3D, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.
The ISP/I.ISP range is capable to deliver 16 discretely decoded channels and has the ability to go up to 32 channels of post-processing. Currently the processors deliver 16-discrete channels for 9.1.6 Dolby Atmos, 13.1 Auro-3D and 9.1.2 DTS:X. "

So is this discrete 9.1.6 or matrixed ?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 11, 2019, 18:05
Yes it is “capable” to play 9.1.6 discrete. Hardware is ready, future proof. But nobody has the codes from Dolby to decode 9.1.6. What the storm does is with two chips, one to decode 7.1.4 and the other to decode 5.1.6, this is then matrixed post processing 9.1.6 or however many channels...

But the codes will be provided soon by Dolby one would presume

Dtsx pro however, will be released to trinnov, that will render 32 channels, so the trinnov will Have  the imax enhanced and dtsx pro. None of the processors come close to the trinnov, trinnov is on its league of its own

https://hometheaterreview.com/trinnov-announces-imax-enhanced-and-dtsx-pro-support/
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: lampsy86 on January 11, 2019, 18:11
Yes it is “capable” to play 9.1.6 discrete. Hardware is ready, future proof. But nobody has the codes from Dolby to decode 9.1.6. What the storm does is with two chips, one to decode 7.1.4 and the other to decode 5.1.6, this is then matrixed post processing 9.1.6 or however many channels...

But the codes will be provided soon by Dolby one would presume

Dtsx pro however, will be released to trinnov, that will render 32 channels, so the trinnov will Have  the imax enhanced and dtsx pro. None of the processors come close to the trinnov, trinnov is on its league of its own

https://hometheaterreview.com/trinnov-announces-imax-enhanced-and-dtsx-pro-support/
Oh yes, it's also in a league of it's when it comes to pricing !

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 12, 2019, 11:43
Haha, yea too ex, way beyond my budget ... I’ve a Friend who has it... quite complex interface as well, the distributor provides calibration and imparts the Know How
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 12, 2019, 19:18
Sometimes even if we have the $$$$ to spend on say a high end equipment...it becomes a hard pill to swallow when knowing very well that you are "limited" by the space you have (typical in Singapore these days as space is a "luxury" that many of us simply do not have, especially those newer flats). First, we can't implement anything > 6 heights even the Amp allows for more...next if you are going to sit against the back wall and placement of speakers not ideal...even the highest end model will probably not gonna perform "miracle" here.

I can't stress more on the importance of getting the fundamentals right at the beginning is more important than getting the most high end AV equipment - e.g. proper placement of speakers and subwoofers. If done right, even a decent brand like Whaferdale or Tannoy speaker set can "sound like million dollars"! Of course, if you have a big space to play around with...by all means GET THE BEST THAT YOU CAN AFFORD or MONEY can buy :P
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: lampsy86 on January 12, 2019, 21:14
Haha, yea too ex, way beyond my budget ... I’ve a Friend who has it... quite complex interface as well, the distributor provides calibration and imparts the Know How
Hope Emotiva keeps improving on their processors. Right now it's not great, even with Dirac on board, but I assume they will get it right eventually in a couple of years, they have a 11.5.8 Dolby Atmos capable processor in the pipeline (2020-2021 I assume)
Another hope is if Marantz/Denon ditch audyssey in favour of Dirac Live ! I'm pretty sure they will be going 16 channel processing (pre-pro) soon, it is inevitable, but will they ever ditch Audyssey !
Arcam is another option in the future when they go 16 channel processing, even though they are pricey, they are still well below the price-range of Trinnov, datasat etc.

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 07:43
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/da69da17611df5d28e0f02bd2d1a5582.jpg)

Lyngdorf MP-50 in the house now ! Just received my new set from Ohm Sound, the distributor here in Singapore. Unboxing this weekend, can’t wait, but thinking of all the cable management stuff...ahhhh

Next week I’ll be having a “guest”, the Denmark engineer from Lyngdorf will be in town, and will be at my place to calibrate my set up, professionally...

I’m sure he will calibrate to his taste, buts it’s ok, I’m gonna try and pick up as much about the MP-50 from him and squeeze every inch out from this investment...

Time to pick up new EQ skills and knowledge from the engineer....

Stay tuned, lotsa good stuff coming soon ....


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 08:14
Sometimes even if we have the $$$$ to spend on say a high end equipment...it becomes a hard pill to swallow when knowing very well that you are "limited" by the space you have (typical in Singapore these days as space is a "luxury" that many of us simply do not have, especially those newer flats). First, we can't implement anything > 6 heights even the Amp allows for more...next if you are going to sit against the back wall and placement of speakers not ideal...even the highest end model will probably not gonna perform "miracle" here.

I can't stress more on the importance of getting the fundamentals right at the beginning is more important than getting the most high end AV equipment - e.g. proper placement of speakers and subwoofers. If done right, even a decent brand like Whaferdale or Tannoy speaker set can "sound like million dollars"! Of course, if you have a big space to play around with...by all means GET THE BEST THAT YOU CAN AFFORD or MONEY can buy :P


Yes u r right, fundamentals like the speaker and subwoofer placement, room acoustics, is absolutely critical. With the completion of my room acoustics now, even my LG OLED tv speakers sounds like the monitor audio speakers now, so different. It’s the first time I’m really listening to the characters of the main speakers in my hall now. Still really can’t believe, every morning I wake up and walk out to the hall, only the clock ticking sound tick tock, can be heard.

But once the fundamentals are there, the integration and EQ skills to the set up will be critical, especially for HT. And if u understand the equipment well, u can take it up to the next level. Most people don’t bother to read the forum or manual, just buy plug and play..... that way they are not fully utilising the strength and equipment capabilities

Similar to anthem, the lyngdorf is also required to put in the distance of the speakers and subs manually using a laser measurement tool. I don’t have an issue with that as I can use the Ddrc88a’s Dirac Live to calculate the accurate distance running a 1 point calibration, that includes the subs, and manually put in the numbers onto lyngdorf. Luckily I’ve not sold the second unit.

But I want to understand further the bass management aspect as I’m sure the seaton amplifiers will have delays, so the distance shouldn’t be what we measure by tape , I’ll ask the Lyngdorf engineer this question. Unless the room perfect is so advance it’s having a varying phase response on the fly?

 Mp-50 users, how do u put in the distance on the subs ?


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sigurros on January 16, 2019, 08:21


Lyngdorf MP-50 in the house now ! Just received my new set from Ohm Sound, the distributor here in Singapore. Unboxing this weekend, can’t wait, but thinking of all the cable management stuff...ahhhh

Next week I’ll be having a “guest”, the Denmark engineer from Lyngdorf will be in town, and will be at my place to calibrate my set up, professionally...

I’m sure he will calibrate to his taste, buts it’s ok, I’m gonna try and pick up as much about the MP-50 from him and squeeze every inch out from this investment...

Time to pick up new EQ skills and knowledge from the engineer....

Stay tuned, lotsa good stuff coming soon ....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bro, the "extra" service comes with the purchase? or need to pay?  ;D
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 16, 2019, 08:22
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/da69da17611df5d28e0f02bd2d1a5582.jpg)

Lyngdorf MP-50 in the house now ! Just received my new set from Ohm Sound, the distributor here in Singapore. Unboxing this weekend, can’t wait, but thinking of all the cable management stuff...ahhhh

Next week I’ll be having a “guest”, the Denmark engineer from Lyngdorf will be in town, and will be at my place to calibrate my set up, professionally...

I’m sure he will calibrate to his taste, buts it’s ok, I’m gonna try and pick up as much about the MP-50 from him and squeeze every inch out from this investment...

Time to pick up new EQ skills and knowledge from the engineer....

Stay tuned, lotsa good stuff coming soon ....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Congrats


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 08:34
Bro, the "extra" service comes with the purchase? or need to pay?  ;D

“Lucky” package... thanks to Ohm Sound! So happen Lyngdorf engineer will be in town, so “sun bian” ... very nice package I got, no regrets at all!

Don’t worry, I’ll share all the strengths of the mp50 and experience, so every MP-50 owner here will benefit...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sigurros on January 16, 2019, 09:17
“Lucky” package... thanks to Ohm Sound! So happen Lyngdorf engineer will be in town, so “sun bian” ... very nice package I got, no regrets at all!

Don’t worry, I’ll share all the strengths of the mp50 and experience, so every MP-50 owner here will benefit...

Cheers bro.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 12:46
Cheers bro.

U own the lyngdorf MP-50?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sigurros on January 16, 2019, 13:07
U own the lyngdorf MP-50?

Not at the moment.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 16, 2019, 20:26

Yes u r right, fundamentals like the speaker and subwoofer placement, room acoustics, is absolutely critical. With the completion of my room acoustics now, even my LG OLED tv speakers sounds like the monitor audio speakers now, so different. It’s the first time I’m really listening to the characters of the main speakers in my hall now. Still really can’t believe, every morning I wake up and walk out to the hall, only the clock ticking sound tick tock, can be heard.

But once the fundamentals are there, the integration and EQ skills to the set up will be critical, especially for HT. And if u understand the equipment well, u can take it up to the next level. Most people don’t bother to read the forum or manual, just buy plug and play..... that way they are not fully utilising the strength and equipment capabilities

Similar to anthem, the lyngdorf is also required to put in the distance of the speakers and subs manually using a laser measurement tool. I don’t have an issue with that as I can use the Ddrc88a’s Dirac Live to calculate the accurate distance running a 1 point calibration, that includes the subs, and manually put in the numbers onto lyngdorf. Luckily I’ve not sold the second unit.

But I want to understand further the bass management aspect as I’m sure the seaton amplifiers will have delays, so the distance shouldn’t be what we measure by tape , I’ll ask the Lyngdorf engineer this question. Unless the room perfect is so advance it’s having a varying phase response on the fly?

 Mp-50 users, how do u put in the distance on the subs ?


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Did you ever question why even Lyndorf does that? LoL...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 20:27
Not at the moment.

In the look out for processor now ? Wait first I’ll be the guinea pig ... what will be priceless and invaluable is the knowledge from the engineer and how he will bring out the best in the equipment and I’ll video and share all the tips and strengths of this processor. apparently this lyngdorf and the NaD m17v.2 has the same street price in the USA , so folks are mostly going for this instead...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 20:30
Did you ever question why even Lyndorf does that? LoL...

No idea really! We will hear it from the horse mouth next week... when the Lyngdorf calibrator is here in Singapore , I’m very eager to know as well... I’m trying to gather all the points and questions , especially those technical stuff posted in the forums that no one has answers to...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 16, 2019, 20:33
No idea really! We will hear it from the horse mouth next week... when the Lyngdorf calibrator is here in Singapore , I’m very eager to know as well... I’m trying to gather all the points and questions , especially those technical stuff posted in the forums that no one has answers to...

Yep...I'll wait for the Danish engineer for answers though I have mine from Anthem already. And I already know why "from Anthem's perspective"...I want to compare notes in terms of the rationale between these 2 product lines.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 16, 2019, 20:41
Yep...I'll wait for the Danish engineer for answers though I have mine from Anthem already. And I already know why "from Anthem's perspective"...I want to compare notes in terms of the rationale between these 2 product lines.

Nice, I’ll share soon when I get the answers , then let us know as well what “anthem”s” EQ programme does and how it handles these delays, I’m sure your JL’s internal subwoofer amplifiers will introduce delays and that should be added to the distance of the sub on anthem avr, but really need to clarify this point...

This whole delay and group delay thing is just too complex... lol but it’s fun!

We all learn something new
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 16, 2019, 20:57
Nice, I’ll share soon when I get the answers , then let us know as well what “anthem”s” EQ programme does and how it handles these delays, I’m sure your JL’s internal subwoofer amplifiers will introduce delays and that should be added to the distance of the sub on anthem avr, but really need to clarify this point...

This whole delay and group delay thing is just too complex... lol but it’s fun!

We all learn something new

Actually it is "we" (the users) who likes to "tinker" that creates this predicament and conundrum for ourselves... :P
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 17, 2019, 08:40
Haha , the tinkerer !!

Ok let’s get down to some more details on room perfect. So here is what I have gathered from other forums, pics from forum

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/029999eec06e743cfbaf0db5fe12aa2f.jpg)

Look at this picture above. The blue shows the in room response. The green is the Global Eq correction from RP, herein after room perfect

If this was my response in the room. Audyssey will eq it flat. It will be a flat target by measurement

If this was Dirac live, the default curve will not be entirely flat, it would be the “perceived flat target” . Meaning Dirac has done research for various rooms and found  a compromise that this target curve will be a good balance for the listeners

A “perceived flat target curve” will look somewhat like this on Dirac , a +2.2db by the time it reaches 20hz, and downward sloping as it approaches 16-20khz

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/79784db42cfdb0bf95d403ace5a5cccc.jpg)

Harman has their own target curve, and it looks somewhat like this...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/92b7a2cf62180eb4048600ced8cb7116.jpg)

So every one of them has done extensive research and found that this is the ideal response.

RP’s approach is no different. What they focus on here is on a “ perceived flat target IN THE ROOM” , so if u place your subs at the corner and u r getting a room gain, RP will not attenuate the response. It will retain it. It will try to retain the target curve within that room, hence applying equal loudness at listening positions that is natural, according to the room response. Whilst this may not be the best approach, real listening and experience shows that a “ perceived flat target in the room” is very pleasant and natural sounding, doesn’t give u the “over EQ-Ed” feel. This is why u will see many say it is good for music, because nobody likes using EQ when it comes to music. You will also notice that it fixes the peaks and nulls where necessary without deviating from the in room target curve measured response . This “natural” curve, is now in line with your room and speakers, this will then preserve the dynamics and headroom.

So every house will have different speakers and room acoustics, the RP strives towards bringing out what works best in that particular room

More to follow when I have the actual measurements to confirm this





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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sigurros on January 17, 2019, 08:43
In the look out for processor now ? Wait first I’ll be the guinea pig ... what will be priceless and invaluable is the knowledge from the engineer and how he will bring out the best in the equipment and I’ll video and share all the tips and strengths of this processor. apparently this lyngdorf and the NaD m17v.2 has the same street price in the USA , so folks are mostly going for this instead...


Cheers bro.

Waiting for you full review and the implementation.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 17, 2019, 21:07
Haha , the tinkerer !!

Ok let’s get down to some more details on room perfect. So here is what I have gathered from other forums, pics from forum

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/029999eec06e743cfbaf0db5fe12aa2f.jpg)

Look at this picture above. The blue shows the in room response. The green is the Global Eq correction from RP, herein after room perfect

If this was my response in the room. Audyssey will eq it flat. It will be a flat target by measurement

If this was Dirac live, the default curve will not be entirely flat, it would be the “perceived flat target” . Meaning Dirac has done research for various rooms and found  a compromise that this target curve will be a good balance for the listeners

A “perceived flat target curve” will look somewhat like this on Dirac , a +2.2db by the time it reaches 20hz, and downward sloping as it approaches 16-20khz

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/79784db42cfdb0bf95d403ace5a5cccc.jpg)

Harman has their own target curve, and it looks somewhat like this...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/92b7a2cf62180eb4048600ced8cb7116.jpg)

So every one of them has done extensive research and found that this is the ideal response.

RP’s approach is no different. What they focus on here is on a “ perceived flat target IN THE ROOM” , so if u place your subs at the corner and u r getting a room gain, RP will not attenuate the response. It will retain it. It will try to retain the target curve within that room, hence applying equal loudness at listening positions that is natural, according to the room response. Whilst this may not be the best approach, real listening and experience shows that a “ perceived flat target in the room” is very pleasant and natural sounding, doesn’t give u the “over EQ-Ed” feel. This is why u will see many say it is good for music, because nobody likes using EQ when it comes to music. You will also notice that it fixes the peaks and nulls where necessary without deviating from the in room target curve measured response . This “natural” curve, is now in line with your room and speakers, this will then preserve the dynamics and headroom.

So every house will have different speakers and room acoustics, the RP strives towards bringing out what works best in that particular room

More to follow when I have the actual measurements to confirm this





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At the end of the day, "Be neutral, get the flat response". Another part that we did not mention is the rollover (how steep the rollover curve) also plays an important role to the overall SQ.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: whitesox on January 17, 2019, 22:10
At the end of the day, "Be neutral, get the flat response". Another part that we did not mention is the rollover (how steep the rollover curve) also plays an important role to the overall SQ.

Hmmm...
Is there a different between roll over and roll off
Specifically in the freq set point in the filter?

 :D
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 17, 2019, 22:11
Hmmm...
Is there a different between roll over and roll off
Specifically in the freq set point in the filter?

 :D

Oops I meant to say roll off. LoL



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 18, 2019, 12:34
in the past, i used to have a flat curve, ie with Audyssey's default target curve.

Then i had the antimode dual core, and i prefer using the house curve for the room.

Then came Dirac, same and i still prefer to have a house curve without using the default target curve

In all my experiments above, the house curve is very pleasant, it produces equal loudness at all frequencies, especially from 20-100hz.. The Harman Curve seems closest to what i like. As you go down lower the frequency, the steepness increases. But how steep the curve, it will depend on individual rooms, how linear the curve, this is also critical. The curve should be linear, and non bulging. One manual way i was doing is playing a sine wave using REW tone generator, then moving the cursor along the frequency and listening to the loudness... These were all manually done.  This "perceived flat response" is much much more desirable, compared to Audyssey's flat target

With Lyngdorf RP, there is no need to measure the "in Room Perceived Flat Target", it will be done by the algorithm itself. This is also why many likes the Lyngdorf, its very easy to use, not much of tinkering. Lotsa good quality auto stuff

Lets see how it measures, soon...

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ralfale on January 18, 2019, 15:11
I'm waiting for your curve as well. Interested to know what's inside the black box calibration.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 20, 2019, 18:07
I'm waiting for your curve as well. Interested to know what's inside the black box calibration.

Haha, my curve now getting bigger! Lol, bulging tummy curve ! All the food is inside ! Lol


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 20, 2019, 18:26
Ok unboxing lyngdorf MP50 standby cable wiring... kinda in a mess behind the console... phewwww

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/b3b539f35e22c5704cb1780d4d791d9a.jpg)

The packaging and what’s inside

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/6db456150d9a0259142843f521979f8e.jpg)

The remote, quite Long , and comes with the calibration microphone, looks good the built quality with a balanced cable provided, room correction is with the xlr connection on the back of the lyngdorf. Extreme care as once dropped that’s it, gotta get another mic in from Denmark , this one is specially calibrated for use with this unit

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/a95a0b87887e0fc592409ec6bd6ce9da.jpg)

It comes with a microphone stand as well. Ive always preferred this type of stand when it comes to calibration, much more versatile. This one is quite sturdy and extends all the way up to the ceiling. According to RP manual, to achieve 100% room knowledge, measuring all the up to the ceiling will provide the software better knowledge of the room acoustics

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/fdef734b97901a07d1358a21daa889d9.jpg)

Available connections at the back of the MP-50... good enough to meet all the requirements . You will notice there are 4 auxiliary connections. I’m using 2 of these for TOP center Atmos, another 2 will be used for dual subs seaton, one stacked in front corner left in the room, another co-located behind MLP . I will not use the LFE for now, using the auxiliary connection will route stereo bass and LFE bass to the subs. I’ll share more on this later. Ditching the front wides for now as placement not ideal. I’ll try instead to toe in the mains to bridge the GAP between mains and surrounds, push the centre speaker slightly backwards to form an arc and bubble

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/0969517fd4f33961310423a86324c4f2.jpg)

Front top view, nothing special, just some LCD to display settings etc

Removed the subs position to take advantage of what I think will work better on the RP

1st pair of seatons in stacked configuration right in front wall corner, this is to be used full force for goosebumps effects. Lyngdorf advocates corner placement for subwoofers.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/62d644f5da0183d8c8ee1dd3523cbf1e.jpg)


2nd pair right behind MLP to balance the load of the 1st stacked version, too bad I can’t stack the second one due to acoustic panels placement.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190120/ac22a165d11c8c9180268e0f249d08c9.jpg)

Getting ready this week for lyngdorf engineer ...

Stay tuned ...


Ps: big thank you to Bro NGSK who popped by to help me carry these heavy subs. Thanks bro, much appreciated ! You will be my guest of honor when it’s ready! Hope I don’t poison u in the process... hahaha



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 20, 2019, 19:28
Looking goood... :P
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ngsk on January 21, 2019, 08:18

Getting ready this week for lyngdorf engineer ...

Stay tuned ...


Ps: big thank you to Bro NGSK who popped by to help me carry these heavy subs. Thanks bro, much appreciated ! You will be my guest of honor when it’s ready! Hope I don’t poison u in the process... hahaha



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No problem bro,anytime.
Looking forward also to demo when everything done.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 21, 2019, 08:34
Took out my laptop and did a quick simulation of the response from historical measurement data...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/99c186d2b82d367a10aed5847d5520a0.jpg)

The graph above shows stacked subs (in green) and colocated subs (in red)

Let’s see how far off the actual measurements are from the simulated ones... the dip at 12hz is due to the opening at the kitchen... that should go away if the kitchen door is closed , fully sealed Hall.

The stacked subs has a lot of energy/ room gain from 30 down to 8hz

This is the raw version before any EQ, they should complement each other... will take actual measurements tonight then will dismantle the system tomorrow ... so I’ll have raw data before the engineer arrives, this way I can compare and ask the right questions when he is around...


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 21, 2019, 08:55
If one observes closely to the graph, you will realise why I picked this combination.

The response from the subs more or less reflects the target curve from harman curve, it’s like a downward sloping curve, even before I start any EQ. This then helps preserves the energy levels from the subs. Meaning the subs don’t have to work hard to achieve the required SPLs and target, hence less or no EQ applied...

This is my approach, minimal EQ by using placement to bring out what’s best about the seatons in this hall...

Next is to let the Lyngdorf do its magic to attenuate the peaks and null... let’s see how good is RP, measured in amplitude and time vs actual listening ...


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 22, 2019, 08:35
Ok, confirmed measurement , simulated amplitude response not as accurate, the room Sim is. But for amplitude, not so accurate.... so back down to basic, actual measurements are best, no chance for shortcut

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/d551b1721e1a874b09350eb4b9bcab92.jpg)

The green above is the stacked subs. I’ve inserted a high pass filter for the co located subs shown in blue, a high pass of 23hz 48db Butterworth filter. I could just leave it without the high pass filter. It will contribute to the ULF. But I have energy going into the room, the high pass filter on the colocated subs will bring about the lower midbass and midbass Attack and speed, not introducing too much energy into the room on other areas. (PS: a dip at MLP <30hz, could be a peak at other locations), high passing was the obvious choice for me...I’ll use the stacked corner subs for ULF, should have ample juice with a 6000w amplifier at 1.5k watts each, that should be more than enough horse power

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/abea738964d2ea41b27b16efd7ec15c5.jpg)

This is the actual response before room perfect, measured at a target 80db, both summing up without having to reach for the delay knob or to invert phase...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/3cddaecc377363f077e8b4060b4d2967.jpg)

Now let’s look at the subs in the time domain... you can see it’s clean down from 56hz to 100hz , decay is less than 0.4ms from 56hz onwards. This means the kitchen sliding bass trap door (this is a special door, with 120kg density rockwool stuffed inside, backing with mass loaded vinyl and ply finishing.) and the ceiling panels are working as intended. Previously I used to have ringing at 68hz and 90hz... this is now eliminated, measurements taken at 40db above noise floor , as u can see in red, the peak SPLs at 92db.
The only problem now is the 55hz ringing, u can see it extends up to more than 1ms, this is nasty. It is caused by the height modes in the room and I know exactly where this location is. But I’ll use EQ to attenuate this peak and bring down the ringing. This can be confirmed from the second graph above as well, u can see the peak in the room at 55hz. As for the 20-40hz slow decay rate, this Is common, especially for lower frequencies. But for these frequencies, I’ll use the PSI active bass trap to improve decay times and I know exactly where this should be placed.

All in, you will notice that the decay rates are uniform, consistent, and somewhat downward sloping according to the room. Downward sloping meaning from 56hz onwards at 0.38ms and as it approaches 100hz, the time taken for the energy to dissipate becomes 0.2ms, as can be seen from the blue plume...

Everything is exactly where I want it to be, for HT... this can be confirmed with actual listening, a much tighter and controlled midbass and upper midbass, very natural indeed due to the consistent decay rates...

Now that I have the collective measurement data, it’s time to dismantle the system and hook up the lyngdorf today

My focus is mainly on bass management and bass, this is the most difficult area in my experience setting up a HT system, but let’s hope RP blends the mains and subs well, let’s see what RP will bring to the table

More updates as and when I have them...

My main job is to bring out the best in the MP-50 in my living room, the subs, and all the equipment in the chain.

No Pain No Gain !


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sdds on January 23, 2019, 07:49
More Uk forum review : https://www.avforums.com/threads/lyngdorf-mp-50-long-term-review.2212529/
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 23, 2019, 08:17
More Uk forum review : https://www.avforums.com/threads/lyngdorf-mp-50-long-term-review.2212529/


Nice just finished reading it, somehow from every review I read, coming from end users, they seem to be pairing it with the MK speakers, I suppose the signature complements the lyngdorf DAC well... concurs to what I heard at your place on the MK surrounds , it just disappeared from the room... very good the MK speakers




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ralfale on January 23, 2019, 10:32
Consistent decay rates ... very nice!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on January 23, 2019, 14:50
Anyone using the TDAI 3400 or 2170 Stereo products? These have Room Perfect.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sdds on January 23, 2019, 17:11
http://lyngdorf.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Review-Lyngdorf-MP-50_biojensen_dec18_eng.pdf happy reading
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 26, 2019, 12:23
Ok Denmark engineer from lyngdorf dropped by and we had a good time, about an hour plus on the system

Before that, let me share what’s being hooked up into the system

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/4316f4df6fdc152d3f76cf36d2868f88.jpg)

Here is a pic of the placement of the front end...gears used in pairing the lyngdorf

Power conditioner- plixir elite BAC 3000
Power cord - Divini PTC 350
Lyngdorf Mp -50
Mogami 2497 balanced cables
Dual monoblocks XPA-1 powering mains, ati525 powering centre, surrounds and surround back, Apollon 8200 Class D Hypex Ncore powering all 8 Atmos.(on its way from Austria) I’ll be using a splitter to send the same signal from TOP front to front height. They both carry the same signal. Distance put into the avr is middle of where the TOP front and front height speakers are

Engineer had a look at surroundings, and he is an acoustician and designer of the Jamo speakers. First advice that came from him, your back pair of subwoofers can go into the front wall corners. Your front stacked subs at corner is good, perfect.

He advised that with RP, it’s good to place the subs at the boundary, corners. I asked him why? He said if u placed a subs in midwall, like how I do, the subs energy will radiate in 360degrees, u will have a lot of reflections to tame. However if subs are placed at the corner at boundary, there will  only be one reflection off the boundary wall, and the impulse will be in line with mains, this will then give u the speed and Attack and much cleaner bass

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/e2b1276574ef2c4199218f46333f10f2.gif)

This type of placement for subs is good, when used with RP, as the focus of RP is in the time domain, not so on the amplitude / frequency response . He said yes u can easily achieve a good amplitude response, but to achieve a good time alignment is very difficult....

This then struck my mind, I remembered last time having read the Ken Kreisel manual, they advocate boundary corner placement as well for their subs... it’s mainly due to this concept as well, the transient Attack of bass is much controlled due to corner boundary placement

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/d23111d13c7057c932f63973308fa3c4.jpg)

Quote from Kk:

Determine the optimum subwoofer mounting location, which normally is the closest corner to where you sit

Designed for optimum performance &  frequency response when placed in the  corner closest to the listening position

Unquote:

In any case, my subs are at back of MLP , he said to test it and then try again to move it in front right stacked at corner again, this place will work for me as well, it’s the balcony area, but I will listen to the current set up as it is now, then move again when the Apollon amp arrives to hook up the remaining 4 channels


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 26, 2019, 12:29
Did you ever question why even Lyndorf does that? LoL...

Bro, did u ask about the distance input?


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: whitesox on January 26, 2019, 12:31


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190126/4316f4df6fdc152d3f76cf36d2868f88.jpg)

Here is a pic of the placement of the front end...gears used in pairing the lyngdorf


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Wow.. it is awesome setup bro.... ready to pay you a visit during 2nd day of CNY ? (I visited you last year also)
Love to see your room and setup except for your two bass traps... Imagine if you can remove it.... wow, your setup will look even better and neat.

Looking forward to see your room response when all subs is interacting with your C speaker (after EQ)

 :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 26, 2019, 13:40
I have not done any measurements, haven’t had the time. Must have a look at the before and after response. He did mention many other things as well

1. It’s also good practice to measure what RP is doing, after calibration. There may be a need to manually tweak to enhance the system further, so fine tuning is still required. He mentioned the RP does integration of mains and subs very well, there is no need for any distance tweaks or adjustment, but it’s good practice to check and fine tune further

2. He also advise using a higher crossover of subs with mains, somewhere into 160hz to 300hz !! An octave above at least, I went like Wow! Won’t u be able to localise the subs ?? He said no! With the front left right pair, you won’t be able to localise . I believe this is where all the moving bass is happening , bass moving circular motion and up left down and right , when using  the auxiliary bass connection to send stereo bass and LFE to the lyngdorf mp50

3. He mentioned bass is missing on the right area, a lot of energy could be felt at the stacked location, this is before RP. So he said try different options and listen to what u like then decide

4. He mentioned lyndorf corrects for full response 20hz up to 20khz. No Schroeder EQ and no options to altar frequency range to be EQ. It will always EQ full range, but we can bypass RP with a button.

5. On subwoofer distance, he mentioned to put in the distance up to the back of the subs from MLP, the first reflection point off that boundary wall to MLP. He mentioned the algorithm will do the work when it comes to blending the subs and phase and time, as it measures the power response of the speakers and subs and applies filters accordingly.

I saw him nodding his head many times, when demoing the system. He said entire system is well placed, speakers and that the mains and surrounds imaging is good. This is before RP

Can’t wait, will take actual measurements soon and lets see what’s happening with RP
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 26, 2019, 13:43
Bro, did u ask about the distance input?


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Yes I specifically asked him that. He said put in the actual measured distance , don’t tweak the distance, because doing that will provide a good amplitude response but will mess up the impulse in the time domain.... he said time domain response is far more critical compared to just the amplitude response... so he told me don’t worry about amplitude response , just place it at the front corners, put in the measured distance, let RP do its magic
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 26, 2019, 14:29
Yes I specifically asked him that. He said put in the actual measured distance , don’t tweak the distance, because doing that will provide a good amplitude response but will mess up the impulse in the time domain.... he said time domain response is far more critical compared to just the amplitude response... so he told me don’t worry about amplitude response , just place it at the front corners, put in the measured distance, let RP do its magic

Ok thanks.


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Jag on January 27, 2019, 08:21
He is essentially saying to ignore frequency response and assume (without verifying)RP will get time domain Impulse response spot on?

I find it hard to swallow without data though.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 08:46
He is essentially saying to ignore frequency response and assume (without verifying)RP will get time domain Impulse response spot on?

I find it hard to swallow without data though.

Agreed with you Jag, but maybe the proof of the pudding is in the eating, I think we must listen for ourselves first even though the reasons by the engineer may not be "sound". For bro Roni, I think his decision to opt for the RoomPerfect after listening to sdds setup must have left a profound impression in his mind that led him to get the Lyngdorf. I have yet to listen to the Lyngdorf's RP myself so I will reserve my comment.

For me, seeing is believing and likewise for sound as well. Figures, charts and readings are important but at the end of the day, we don't look at the readings to determine how well the system sound but rather how "it" (sound) performed in real time (and I'm pretty sure the readings and tweaks will complement the sound) but then again sound is a very subjective matter and I find it hard to convince everyone that this is the reference sound that one should emulate as different people perceive sound differently.

Maybe bro Roni can share more of his findings and experience as he goes along... :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Jag on January 27, 2019, 09:27
101% agree with you. Just that in my work life, I learnt not to trust claims unless there is  statistically substantial evidence to corroborate the results  from both subjective and objective data fronts.

I too feel how it sounds is where it matters most. Measurements are only to quantify what we hear.

Time alignment is pretty important, and how many times have we stressed the get this correct. I’ve taught many here how to manually measure and confirm time alignment is true and what to do to remedy if time alignment is off.


Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:12
The  Lyngdorf is a WOW.

I’ll break it down further with more measurement data, I’m also very eager to find out what it’s doing, in the evening tonight when kids asleep.

So far I’ve listened, I can confirm it is better than the previous Dirac set up with ddrc88a. What I found improved is the speed of the bass in midbass, the transient Attack from midbass significantly improved, its as fast as my previous Ken Kreisel 12012. The 18” subs doesn’t feel slow, it’s very very fast, hitting hard and fast, very very clean sounding. The goosebumps from deepbass is back too, without pushing the subs, The integration of subs and mains is seamless, this is the strength of the lyngdorf

It provided the Attack of midbass, provided the deep bass I’m after, provided the texture moving bass feeling , it’s actually really complete now for me. In the past, I was either missing the speed of midbass or deepbass, had to give in to one. With this there is no need to compromise, enjoying deep bass and midbass Attack at the same time, with moving 3D bass. It also brought back the height bass !! Superb feeling !

What I understand from the engineer is that once the subs are corner loaded, the first reflection off the boundary is easier to control, it reaches the listening position in a synchronised waveform, this gives the feel that it is fast, because all other reflections from all over doesn’t exist if the subs are placed in corner locations. Placing it in the midwall location will introduce a lot of reflections that is  too difficult to control them in the time domain.  So again it’s really about placement of the subs, where it is placed that matters.

Getting it right in the time domain for Low frequencies is very hard to achieve.honestly I didn’t tweak or do anything. I just run RP and it does everything, so easy and so good. And when u sit down and listen, immediately u know the resonance is gone, the image pans from left right surround back is nice.

There is one Atmos 2014 clip, the little girl will hang by a rope swing from TOP, back down, then up again to the left then disappears... so good, feels so immersive even in the jungle, the leaf scene turning, I can feel the bass circulating with the leaves, soft gentle and very natural feeling then it touches the water...

http://www.youtube.com/v/Qd2hN5xviug&fs=1

See this, exactly what I’m experiencing now, very very fast the 18” seatons, I can’t believe 18” can pound with speed and control, superb transient Attack . The EQ from RP is the magic

At this stage, I’m very delighted I went for the lyngdorf over the storm , no regrets here . It suits my taste perfectly because of the above that I’ve been after for the past 3 years, finally found what I’m looking for. Best part it is so easy to use

Highly recommended the lyngdorf Mp50 if funds permit

I’ll be experimenting further on voicing, EQ tool for house curve, post processing stuff etc
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 15:16
The  Lyngdorf is a WOW.

I’ll break it down further with more measurement data, I’m also very eager to find out what it’s doing, in the evening tonight when kids asleep.

So far I’ve listened, I can confirm it is better than the previous Dirac set up with ddrc88a. What I found improved is the speed of the bass in midbass, the transient Attack from midbass significantly improved, its as fast as my previous Ken Kreisel 12012. The 18” subs doesn’t feel slow, it’s very very fast, hitting hard and fast, very very clean sounding. The goosebumps from deepbass is back too, without pushing the subs, The integration of subs and mains is seamless, this is the strength of the lyngdorf

It provided the Attack of midbass, provided the deep bass I’m after, provided the texture moving bass feeling , it’s actually really complete now for me. In the past, I was either missing the speed of midbass or deepbass, had to give in to one. With this there is no need to compromise, enjoying deep bass and midbass Attack at the same time, with moving 3D bass. It also brought back the height bass !! Superb feeling !

What I understand from the engineer is that once the subs are corner loaded, the first reflection off the boundary is easier to control, it reaches the listening position in a synchronised waveform, this gives the feel that it is fast, because all other reflections from all over doesn’t exist if the subs are placed in corner locations. Placing it in the midwall location will introduce a lot of reflections that is  too difficult to control them in the time domain.  So again it’s really about placement of the subs, where it is placed that matters.

Getting it right in the time domain for Low frequencies is very hard to achieve.honestly I didn’t tweak or do anything. I just run RP and it does everything, so easy and so good. And when u sit down and listen, immediately u know the resonance is gone, the image pans from left right surround back is nice.

There is one Atmos 2014 clip, the little girl will hang by a rope swing from TOP, back down, then up again to the left then disappears... so good, feels so immersive even in the jungle, the leaf scene turning, I can feel the bass circulating with the leaves, soft gentle and very natural feeling then it touches the water...

https://youtu.be/Qd2hN5xviug

See this, exactly what I’m experiencing now, very very fast the 18” seatons, I can’t believe 18” can pound with speed and control, superb transient Attack . The EQ from RP is the magic

At this stage, I’m very delighted I went for the lyngdorf over the storm , no regrets here . It suits my taste perfectly because of the above that I’ve been after for the past 3 years, finally found what I’m looking for. Best part it is so easy to use

Highly recommended the lyngdorf Mp50 if funds permit

I’ll be experimenting further on voicing, EQ tool for house curve, post processing stuff etc

Hahaha...sounds like you got yourself a *gem* there! :)

WIll pay you a visit one of these days to experience it myself :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:20
Hahaha...sounds like you got yourself a *gem* there! :)

WIll pay you a visit one of these days to experience it myself :)

yes definitely, bring your HD when u drop by, will share some HDR10+ clips with you, you can check out the tone mapping quality on those video files as well, jaw dropping quality that one...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 15:22
yes definitely, bring your HD when u drop by, will share some HDR10+ clips with you, you can check out the tone mapping quality on those video files as well, jaw dropping quality that one...

Yep.  Especially with my new projector coming soon. A good time to test those.



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: winwinc81 on January 27, 2019, 15:24
Mee tooo lol
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:29
He is essentially saying to ignore frequency response and assume (without verifying)RP will get time domain Impulse response spot on?

I find it hard to swallow without data though.

Yes same, i found it weird, thats why i asked him, what happens when there is a dip at X location? wont you feel the bass is missing? He is very confident, he said if you placed it at left right front corners boundary, dont worry about it, just let RP do its work. He also stressed not to place it at 1/4 location in front. He also said without any acoustics like what i did for my place, i will still enjoy the benefits as the algorithm does a good job with fixing the Room. So i just went ok ok... lol

Now after the RP, actual listening, it sounds way way nicer than the previous Tweaked set up, that tweaked set up took me 2 months! The RP is like 1hr 20mins..... and just add the house curve and done! nothing to do and sounds better than my preferred tweaked set up
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:32
Yep.  Especially with my new projector coming soon. A good time to test those.



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Trust me you will be impressed..... The skin tone etc all very good.

I must stress that the Lyngdorf MP-50 doesnt have a good HDMI port, it is HDMI 2.0 but supports speed up to 10.2g only. So for video, i have the oppo go in to the TV directly
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:33
Mee tooo lol

yes bro, dont need a midbass module....see the video on top by lyngdorf boundary woofers... same thing im experiencing now with the 18' subs
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 15:40
Trust me you will be impressed..... The skin tone etc all very good.

I must stress that the Lyngdorf MP-50 doesnt have a good HDMI port, it is HDMI 2.0 but supports speed up to 10.2g only. So for video, i have the oppo go in to the TV directly

Huh? Up to 10.2gbps?! Thats hdmi 1.4b specs. Are you sure or not? That’s not even able to support 4K @60fps properly! And that’s not mentioning the 4:4:4 and support for WCG.



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:43
Huh? Up to 10.2gbps?! Thats hdmi 1.4b specs. Are you sure or not? That’s not even able to support 4K @60fps properly! And that’s not mentioning the 4:4:4 and support for WCG.



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yea, i read in AVS it supports only up to 4k 30fps.... and its port speed is 10.2g not 18gbps....
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 15:46
yea, i read in AVS it supports only up to 4k 30fps.... and its port speed is 10.2g not 18gbps....

That’s not good. Like that confirm it’s HDMI 1.4b. It can support 4K up to 30fps. I guess u will not be able to use it as a pre amp/switch to support pass through inputs from sources like UHD Blu-ray (Oppo) and other peripherals.



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 15:53
U will need to get a separate switch for your video inputs.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 15:57
That’s not good. Like that confirm it’s HDMI 1.4b. It can support 4K up to 30fps. I guess u will not be able to use it as a pre amp/switch to support pass through inputs from sources like UHD Blu-ray (Oppo) and other peripherals.



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The MP-50 HDMI chipset is 2.0-lite, 300MHz/10.2Gbps. It can pass ≤2160p30 HDR at 4:2:2 12-bit and 2160p60 HDR only at 4:2:0 10-bit.MP-50 can only pass DV at 2160p30 max

Yes the video card and hdmi chipset is not the latest on MP50, so have to be wary for those who need this. For me i dont need it, as im using oppo straight to TV for HDR10 60fps and Dolby Vision Video

Netflix is also on the OLED tv, so sending atmos audio down to lyngdorf vide ARC, and youtube as well, if i decide to use xbox, ill use the HDMI in on the Oppo as well. The oppo will play all ripped UHD through USB and Disk, MP50 will play music through spotify and its USB Dacs. No issues, so dont really need the Lyngdorf to be full 4K for my case. Im after the sound quality and RP
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 16:00
The MP-50 HDMI chipset is 2.0-lite, 300MHz/10.2Gbps. It can pass ≤2160p30 HDR at 4:2:2 12-bit and 2160p60 HDR only at 4:2:0 10-bit.MP-50 can only pass DV at 2160p30 max

Yes the video card and hdmi chipset is not the latest on MP50, so have to be wary for those who need this. For me i dont need it, as im using oppo straight to TV for HDR10 60fps and Dolby Vision Video

That's really weird...never heard of HDMI 2.0-lite version before. The most interesting bit is the support for Dolby Vision at 4K@30fps...and yet it can support 4:2:2 @12bit which is the baseline for DV. Interesting...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 16:06
That's really weird...never heard of HDMI 2.0-lite version before. The most interesting bit is the support for Dolby Vision at 4K@30fps...and yet it can support 4:2:2 @12bit which is the baseline for DV. Interesting...

yes, there will be an upgrade soon for the HDMI 2.1 board. I believe at the end of this year. They have indicated that upgrade works in the pipe now. So for those who need the HDMI 2.1 ports, can swap out the HDMI motherboard for the 2.1 version down the road. I think its around $1k++ for the upgrade of the HDMI board

Many were holding back on the MP50 due to the HDMI Port being non 18gbps. But eventually succumbed to the sound quality it brought to the set up... Inc me! hahaha.. Deep Poison
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 16:08
yes, there will be an upgrade soon for the HDMI 2.1 board. I believe at the end of this year. They have indicated that upgrade works in the pipe now. So for those who need the HDMI 2.1 ports, can swap out the HDMI motherboard for the 2.1 version down the road. I think its around $1k++ for the upgrade of the HDMI board

Many were holding back on the MP50 due to the HDMI Port being non 18gbps. But eventually succumbed to the sound quality it brought to the set up... Inc me! hahaha.. Deep Poison

I see...at least Lyngdorf quite steady that it still allows older model to upgrade the board to HDMI 2.1 :)
Nice...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 16:16
I see...at least Lyngdorf quite steady that it still allows older model to upgrade the board to HDMI 2.1 :)
Nice...

Yea the chief designer Peter Lyngdorf is very experienced, used to work for NAD. In NAD you will notice the processor and AVR are all modular design. Easy to cater for upgrade and future expansion and he constantly works to improve the system. This is why i took the plunge and went for this. Initially, I didnt think it was wise spending > $10k on processor. I wouldnt mind for subwoofers but not AVR or Processor where the tech is improving so fast.... But im confident this MP50 will be very hard to replace, at the price i got. I anticipate this should sit in the system for at least the next 5 years, it will be the brain processing everything, from EQ, HT to music. Dont even need external EQ device for subs. When you add those external devices etc up, its also close to $7k.... So i find its better i keep just one equipment in the chain, simple and effective and very easy to use, very easy indeed
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2019, 16:18
Yea the chief designer Peter Lyngdorf is very experienced, used to work for NAD. In NAD you will notice the processor and AVR are all modular design. Easy to cater for upgrade and future expansion and he constantly works to improve the system. This is why i took the plunge and went for this. Initially, I didnt think it was wise spending > $10k on processor. I wouldnt mind for subwoofers but not AVR or Processor where the tech is improving so fast.... But im confident this MP50 will be very hard to replace, at the price i got. I anticipate this should sit in the system for at least the next 5 years, it will be the brain processing everything, from EQ, HT to music. Dont even need external EQ device for subs. When you add those external devices etc up, its also close to $7k.... So i find its better i keep just one equipment in the chain, simple and effective and very easy to use, very easy indeed

Welcome to the "one-box-solution"...an AVR/Pre-pro all-in-one.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 27, 2019, 16:20
Welcome to the "one-box-solution"...an AVR/Pre-pro all-in-one.

One Box to Rule them All!! Lord of the Box!!

Cant find the thumbs up logo, so yea "THUMBS UP"!!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 30, 2019, 08:38
Now that I’ve completed the room noise floor measurements, I can confirm the Lyngdorf MP-50 has very Low electrical noise as well. What this means, it means every single equipment down the chain will benefit from this Low electrical noise... you get what u pay for....

Yesterday was late, now let’s see the default presets for voicing in the Lyngdorf. This default target curve will be applied for all speakers and subwoofers, so it’s really really very easy, various options available, just select your choice.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190130/b306fe7a79d2a2aa0796d4c9c1fb4679.jpg)

The above is “Action + movie” target curve, default preset in the Mp-50. I think this curve is very good for movies. Why I think it’s good? Look at how it tapers downward >10khz... in the past when watching movies, I alway had to increase centre channel, because when it came to action sequence, the music from Left Right speakers suddenly seems unnecessarily louder and intense... I think that’s how the studios like to master it, but it’s not something I like. so I always preferred a centre with +2db over the mains, then reduce overall volume by 2db, so when it came to vocals and conversation, it’s crystal clear dialogue... but with this target curve set in, that is solved , and it’s even better if it’s horn loaded speakers

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190130/785b2131552824c1dcb6e9cc75acc8eb.jpg)

You can also select the above “movie” curve, no action. See the slope at the end, flat all the way and slow roll off, if the speakers are warm and not too bright, good for drama and romance movies, choose according to different genres

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190130/03e9b57de3477c46a5299d1a3a4af727.jpg)

Then u can choose the “Tilt” curve. This curve is similar to the one used by Dirac research, for someone who likes the default of measured flat target with a slight tilt

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190130/eb89a2715924a078d3f88f6c3182049e.jpg)

And then u also have “Music” curve

This curve will introduce the famous BBC Dip at 3khz, or otherwise known as the physchoacoutsic dip...

 The  idea  behind  the  3  kHz  dip originates  from  the  human auditory  system  and  diffuse  field  characteristics.  The  human  hearing  is  less sensitive  to  diffuse  fields  in  the  neighborhood  of  3  kHz.  Because  of  a  flat microphone  response,  many  recordings  have  too  much  energy  around  the 3  kHz  region,  compared  to  the  original  listening  situation  (e.g.  in  a  concert hall).  A  cutting  PEQ  at  3  kHz is being introduced here to compensate.  Whether  or not  this  is  beneficial  is  left  to  be  judged  by  the  users. Audyssey had this as well, some like it, some don’t

So there u go, that is the default voicing available in the MP-50, there is nothing to do, just choose which u like, apply and listen... no need for complicated plotting of EQ , equalising individual speakers etc

Again, very simple and easy to use, go to system, voicing and choose your desired target curve , there is also shortcuts in the remote to do this plus u can also set your own preferred target curve

I’ll be going with a +6db hard knee logarithmic interpolation straight line curve from 63-18hz, flat thereafter, custom made target curve that I like...




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 30, 2019, 08:43
Next I wanted to see quickly what it’s doing to the subs, true enough it’s focus mainly in the time domain

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190130/ed5a63686a6400cba15e4322f3c780fe.jpg)

Above is the subwoofer impulse before RP

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190130/ebc1bd4a3c3cf5c4713fd98f885a9965.jpg)

Green is the subwoofer impulse after RP

You can how much improvement on the impulse correction of the subs

They are “closer” and uniformed and actual listening confirms this, the feeling is tight and fast transcient Attack from the subs

I have a feeling it’s better to use an external EQ to correct the amplitude response, then let the signal through to RP to correct it further in the time domain. This way I’ll have the best of both worlds, a good amplitude response + superb time alignment on subs + Super integration of subs and mains

But introducing the outboard EQ will introduce electronic delays, this can be measured with REW using acoustic timing reference with impulse , I’ll share more again soon....


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 30, 2019, 08:53
One more problem I noticed with The Lyngodf , the audio return channel is not able to support Dolby Atmos!!

Arghhhhh

There goes my Netflix in Atmos ....

Ok need to talk to Lyngdorf to see if it’s the HDMi port itself or it’s the firmware , if it’s CEC compliant, Atmos should show and work as intended

Another way to circumvent this is to use the Oppo 205 ARC, for now
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 31, 2019, 13:02
ok, i can confirm the HDMI ports for ARC doesnt pass through Dolby Atmos on the Lyngdorf MP50, this could be due to bandwidth limitation 10.2g. Ill need to write in to Lyngdorf engineer to get their feedback

The workaround for now will be to send the signal from LG OLED Netflix App --> Oppo 205 (ARC input)--> Lyngdorf HDMI in 1-8

This method above works for Dolby Atmos Netflix. One thing to note is to make sure post processing is set to Dolby Upmixer. If NOne is selected, Dolby Atmos won’t pass through

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190131/cd6f0be08d24220985514732a49622e9.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190131/a6edd4477c35a9c90f11975e5d671c1a.jpg)

You can now see on screen Dolby Atmos and Dolby vision both available

Oppo 205 design has Low jitter, also very good, but it’ll be best if lyngdorf can handle Atmos vide ARC directly


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 01, 2019, 08:01
Still reading through the rest of the feedbacks and user experience on avs forum, this came from some avs users when trinnov was mentioned , I’ve personally not heard the trinnov, but I know it’s very flexible and offers many controls, at the same time complex for those who don’t know what to do. The Lyngdorf however, with its automated RP algorithm, is definitely one of the best out there, if not the best. Very hard to beat

These few days been watching Netflix, whenever the logo appears, the Netflix plays a unique sound, booom booom...

When this played, I could feel the “bass imaging”, holy friholy, basss moving left to right.... bomp bomp ... this moving texture is amazing, never felt like this before...it’s exactly what I’m after in bass, not the SPLs, but the moving texture and speed

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190131/707aad7672c32adec80c72272c05efe3.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190131/d178cfdd41629a8ae554c3a16d1db902.jpg)

As can be seen from many user experience, getting a high end equipment but not maximising its capabilities can sometimes backfire...

I’m still in my learning stage now with the MP50, I’ll post more along the way, after I’ve discovered and ventured into the details further. At this stage, i feel that if the mp50 is priced <$10k, many other processor or avr in the market will be stuck, there will simply be no processor that can challenge the mp50 if sold at this price point... it is totally in a different league on its own....

The biggest selling point in my opinion for the mp50 is the ease of use and superb RP algorithm


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: kaydee6 on February 01, 2019, 08:44
Lovely, please put me in the list if you open house. :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 01, 2019, 09:07
Lovely, please put me in the list if you open house. :)

Sure will invite members when it’s ready, to check it out for themselves

What I find it does exceptionally well is the blending of the mains + surrounds + Atmos speakers with the subs.

In the past, I’ve always blend only the Centre + subs, when I try blending surround with subs, the centre with subs screws up, then I try blending mains with subs, the centre with subs not as good, then u have Atmos blending with subs, and again something else changes , in the end I just blend the centre with subs and move on, cos for HT, majority is from centre

In my experience, It’s very difficult to blend in all speakers, the more speakers u get, the more reflections and acoustics and problems to fix, especially when u have so many speakers to blend in and integrate, but this is where I find the RPs main strengths lies. It’s blending of all the speakers is superb in the time domain
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 02, 2019, 11:06
Finally its saturday! Gonna have a good listen to the set up again today, especially on the bass section. After which im gonna further experiment again.

This time round, ill send both full subs signals (ie200hz) to the DDRC-88A, use Dirac to EQ both subs (up to 200hz) for a good amplitude phase response. Re-measure the actual distance + Delays + electronic delays on the subs and put in this new distance onto the MP50. Using the same absolute gain settings measurement.

Then Use Room Perfect to EQ the full system into 1. The purpose is to let RP focus on the integration of all the channels with the subs in the time domain. This is RP's strength, the integration part.

Objective of the above:
I think using the Minidsp to eq the subs amplitude and phase response might benefit for a smoother response at the Main listening position, Equal loudness at MLP. Once this is done, the signal from subs alone that goes through the mp50 will be clean & smooth for MLP spot only. i think RP can then focus with ample computational resources on blending the subs with the rest of the mains, surrounds and atmos speakers.

Using the outboard EQ DDRC88a for subs only will be beneficial in my opinion, i think so. Ive measured the subs response post RP, RP doesnt fix the amplitude response, its focus is to fix the response in the time domain.

Experiment resumes, i will post my findings soon if this approach does benefit the overall user experience.....precisely why i decided not to sell the second ddrc-88a unit for the time being
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 05, 2019, 12:06
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190204/d4dca5ff3a4a5c2cda37475d2180eeaf.jpg)

After testing movies, next tested music this morning..

Tested the iPhone app for Lyngdorf, works flawlessly, so easy to hook up, just download and it detects itself, I could now adjust the EQ profiles and room correction and select the media files on the fly.

There is a USB audiophile player built in the Lyngdorf and I used this to play some music. The music quality is amazing on the Lyngdorf. It’s just so relaxing and soothing you can listen for hours.

Then I tested Spotify

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190204/a3e4e624c6d53304d48a4d338e1c9c68.jpg)

Nice again! I’ve been watching this Korean drama Memories of the Alhambra, it’s a very good drama, highly recommended. Something different, if u haven’t watched it, go watch it !

I enjoyed the music in this drama, so when playing it on Spotify, it’s a totally different music. I can hear clear separation of instruments, vocals and music is so lively, though I don’t understand what they are singing, I just loved it! It’s so relaxing , very very nice and musical this mp50

2 things I’ve notice

1) it doesn’t play dsd files, need to use Oppo 205 to pass through
2) it’s USB port not able to detect 3tb drive and above . 2tb and below all good

Just wow the lyngdorf! The quality of sound is superb , it’s gonna be a musical CNY for me, enjoying all the nice music this cny

I’m sure the lyngdorf CD player is also TOP notch..


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on February 05, 2019, 12:26
Nice... ;)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sdds on February 05, 2019, 15:13
https://www.widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=21541, Lyngdorf new 8 channel power amp .
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: kaydee6 on February 09, 2019, 14:36
I have not done any measurements, haven’t had the time. Must have a look at the before and after response. He did mention many other things as well

1. It’s also good practice to measure what RP is doing, after calibration. There may be a need to manually tweak to enhance the system further, so fine tuning is still required. He mentioned the RP does integration of mains and subs very well, there is no need for any distance tweaks or adjustment, but it’s good practice to check and fine tune further

2. He also advise using a higher crossover of subs with mains, somewhere into 160hz to 300hz !! An octave above at least, I went like Wow! Won’t u be able to localise the subs ?? He said no! With the front left right pair, you won’t be able to localise . I believe this is where all the moving bass is happening , bass moving circular motion and up left down and right , when using  the auxiliary bass connection to send stereo bass and LFE to the lyngdorf mp50

3. He mentioned bass is missing on the right area, a lot of energy could be felt at the stacked location, this is before RP. So he said try different options and listen to what u like then decide

4. He mentioned lyndorf corrects for full response 20hz up to 20khz. No Schroeder EQ and no options to altar frequency range to be EQ. It will always EQ full range, but we can bypass RP with a button.

5. On subwoofer distance, he mentioned to put in the distance up to the back of the subs from MLP, the first reflection point off that boundary wall to MLP. He mentioned the algorithm will do the work when it comes to blending the subs and phase and time, as it measures the power response of the speakers and subs and applies filters accordingly.

I saw him nodding his head many times, when demoing the system. He said entire system is well placed, speakers and that the mains and surrounds imaging is good. This is before RP

Can’t wait, will take actual measurements soon and lets see what’s happening with RP

Did you set to the high XO as per Lyngdorf's recommendation? Did he explain in detail why no option to limit correction?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 09, 2019, 19:08
My 8 channel Apollon amp will be arriving SG this week, so now tidying up cables etc

My subs are only good up to 200hz... so I’ll try with mains at 120hz, surrounds 140, Atmos 160... that’s for stereo bass redirected from mains

LFE channel will still be at 125hz Low pass filtered

I’ll be doing the system EQ using my approach with REW, manual tweaking of subs before RP. I will write down in detail the steps and how I integrate the entire system

Once that is complete, I’ll let RP do what it does best, integrating mains+surrounds+Atmos with subs and setting the group delays. This is where the RP is very good , TIMING!

Engineer mentioned that RP EQs the system “ Full Range” to maintain the coherence and tonality of the overall system. There is no option to EQ to Schroeder. I believe this is the better approach especially when the RP’s focus for correction is in the time domain, it’s algorithm is able to maintain the naturality of the entire system. You just don’t hear the type of “EQ” sound heard on many systems

I hope some of the EQ steps I’ll detail here will also help to shed some light , approach will be as follows

1. Blending in dual subs phase aligning, then time aligning using the impulse response
2. Gain matching, sub optimisation using Biquad to eliminate peaks and room modes
3. Mains, surrounds and Atmos distance settings using the acoustic timing reference
4. Room perfect equalisation
5. Measuring to confirm results, phase, impulse, spectrogram and fine tuning further for perfect alignment ( chances are nothing much to do)
6. Target curves manipulation to suit taste vide the voicing profile
7. Maximising headroom, absolute SPLs, distortion, compression tests
8. Actual listening

Once I’ve completed the above exercise,I believe I’ll understand the Lyngdorf better and hopefully help all other lyngdorf users here . So far I’ve liked what I heard on the global EQ profile
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: kaydee6 on February 09, 2019, 20:49
I want to visit you. :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 12, 2019, 22:37
Here are some videos for easy understanding below:

It is very true, exactly what I’m experiencing now, the transient Attack and speed from the 18” seatons is unbelievable ... many more things to share soon as I’ve been discovering many things with this RP, it is brilliant stuff . As it stands now, it is a clear winner for me. Dirac has also taken note on timing and integration trying to improve the algorithm, I believe more updates are coming soon... the bass management on new Dirac will be the first interesting improvement this year . It’s important to note that Dirac and RP both works good in correcting the impulse response, the difference is RP focuses on the timing response whilst Dirac focuses on amplitude response . Do also note that timing response is not the same as time alignment of speakers and subs.

Another thing to note is that during test tones (sounds like some halloweeen Friday the 13th music)  for calibration, sub channels and respective individual channels are working in tandem and active, this is where I think blending of speakers with subs at the Crossover region is seamless

My personal experience as of now:
Room perfect > Dirac live > audyssey XT32 > Audyssey XT > Accueq > YPAO

http://www.youtube.com/v/RaWNtz3ToyA&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/NpNTWK7c_uA&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/EqwXGBz7TzY&feature=youtu.be&fs=1

updated to show calibration video above
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 13, 2019, 09:02
One more thing I forgot to mention, to bring out the best for RP, it is not ideal to place the corner bass traps exactly where the subwoofers are placed. Use dihedral mount along the walls, these are way more effective and better sonically , something like this pic below, where I have circled it in black

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190213/5edd96218298daefc51899ec654b90e5.jpg)

Corner traps should be placed ideally at opposing trihedral corners where no subwoofers are in place. This is where excessive energy gets accumulated in the room.

Remember, the RP focus is on the timing and response from the first instance of impulse , together with the mains. To bring out the best, this boundary load is highly recommended. Facing the Drivers against the wall is also recommended !

Mains should also be along the largest front wall, straight up placed all the way to the front wall. The same for surround speakers. Ports plugged, if any. Do not worry about speaker boundary interference, that will shift the null to a higher frequency where this will be Handled by RP, the main idea behind placing it straight up to the wall, is for better acoustics providing more output with boundary gain and way less distortion and reflections to tame , this is then easier for RP to EQ and blend the subs and ALL the speakers in the room. When the nulls and dips from mains are all shifted to a higher frequency >300hz, the mains and subs work in tandem, and the speed and Attack from bass is achieved, it’s like small brother woofer from mains pushing the upper mid bass supported by big broher f18 from behind...

Very clever room correction technique

The other I found significant is what’s directly above you, absorption directly above you in your MLP is also preferred, so I don’t use any diffuser directly above MLP

Getting the bass right is so critical , especially in a home environment, this is the most challenging and obvious sound improvement from the lyngdorf to other processors , the bass management is very very good , second to none . Remember, we are not in a cinema, we are at home, and the room perfect nails it absolutely spot on for my home

Also there is no need to pay excessive calibrators fees for those high end processors, it’s just so simple. Run it and everytime it is perfect! Really room perfect indeed

Can’t wait to wrap it up and start enjoying the beautiful sound from the mp50




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Title: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 16, 2019, 14:14
Apollon 8200c 8 channel hypex Ncore 252 class D  in the house. This will support all 8 channels Atmos speakers, all crossed at 160hz xo on the Lyngdorf , seatons 18” will be playing stereo bass up to 160hz ...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190216/668f37b7f92b3ce2aa01835941944e86.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190216/e052fc06b2439a1a2ab170655438be03.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190216/cc41ac7307e4d73c570ebcb29bf59c18.jpg)

Before that took all the necessary measurements using the acoustic timing reference ... I’ll share soon

Meantime now tidying up and labelling all the cables

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190216/3b8085760826d12442048fad0353439a.jpg)

Need to finish tidying up all the cables, midnight will run room perfect

Oh yea, room perfect runs at 85db, using -20dbfs “Friday the 13th” test tones , so it’s 10db louder... unlike audyssey and Dirac test tones that uses -30dbfs and calibrates at 75db




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 18, 2019, 08:32
Technical glitch along the way. When I hooked up the system, no sound out from 2 of the rear TOP Atmos, I thought I made sure of all the connections. Then I swapped it with other channels and sound came back but that other channel sound was not present instead. Nothing wrong with Lyngdorf or settings. So I wrote to Apollon and he told me to open up the amp to check for loose cables. There were only 6 screws and look what I found

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/59ea34b16ae6bcb0f3bb63b004160bba.jpg)

One of the cables came out, no wonder I wasn’t having sound on channel 5&6 on the Atmos.

Hooked it right back up and voila, all was working again

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/71f93934c2ec5b99a9975ef3fcebc5b4.jpg)

Some nicely done amp, see the internal

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/df28d1595bab5c70845dc76d5dabdacd.jpg)

The binding post behind used ETI

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/ca32521d78de775516bf935e312e1170.jpg)

Casing is also cool all the time with this class D amplifier

Now all 8 channels Atmos is connected to this Apollon, all using the same XO 160hz.

TOP front speakers Drivers fires sideways left and right.

Front height speakers mounted right on TOP, firing downwards towards MLP ear position

TOP centre driver fires towards SMT diffusor places at the left and right position

TOP rear driver fires exactly behind the MLP, not towards ear

Surround back fires towards ear position

Atmos driver alignment is now complete.

All measurements taken using rew acoustic timing reference to input distance now lyngdorf, I will share how I do it tonight when I get home and have access to my laptop

Speakers are all in place now, mains pushed way back towards boundary as can be seen below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/db1e771c525512d1d55bf43ab43c8691.jpg)

This method is used with Lyngdorf running RP as explained in the above post. It is NOT ideal for Dirac live and audyssey. Even so if you don’t have the tools to measure. Plus the SMT wings diffusor I’m using works in nearfield, so no issues there . It’s not the same if it’s QRD diffusors, those need space

Finally plugged in the ports of the speakers...

Note: previously I was using spikes for the centre speakers, it didn’t sound as good. To counter the reflective surface on the console, I’ve used an acoustic absorptive high density foam board 3.8cm thick. This absorbs the reflections off the tv console as seen above.

Ps:// thanks bro NGSK for the foam board, I’ll see u this Sunday for demo and Apollon monoblocks. U gotta hear it yourself !  Hope I don’t poison u! Lol


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ngsk on February 18, 2019, 10:39
Sure bro,will bring the Apollon NC800SL dual mono amp down for u to test. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 18, 2019, 13:37
Sure bro,will bring the Apollon NC800SL dual mono amp down for u to test. ;D ;D ;D

The Apollon Amp is damn good, replaced it with the Emotiva. Immediately I can tell the quality just running RP from the calibration tones. The atmos speakers above sound very clean and dynamic. very nice imaging panning left right front back, the GAP is filled with the addition of the Top Front used in conjunction with Front Heights. Before this it was with emotiva and it wasnt as detailed. This Apollon one seems to have very low noise. I think its partly to do also with using a higher XO at 160hz. I think the atmos speakers are cruising, made a big difference. Im sure you are enjoying the Dual Monoblocks on the 800SL with Sonic Imagery 990ENH TICHA Discrete OP Amps, really good stuff for its price. A lot more poison coming for you...you can standby for Atmos upgrade in the not too distant future... lol

Im also eagerly waiting to see how it fares against the emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks. Lets see this Sunday.

There is nothing much to do after RP really. It just sounds perfect. Now i just need to tweak the voicing for house curve preference. Will load in one for intense midbass and another for intense deepbass and the 3rd for balanced.

I think its good to have separate voicings. So when watching HK movies Donnnie Yen type, i can switch to midbass profile. Then when watching hollywood action type of movies, switch it to deep bass profile. All others just use the balanced profile.

Very nice customisable voicing options from lyngdorf, can be adjusted on the fly.....

I have also updated the disadvantages and places for improvement on the lyngdorf on the 1st page, as and when i come across them, so all lyngdorf users will be aware on the shortcomings for this MP-50.

Tweaking stage in progress now.....
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on February 18, 2019, 15:19
Hello All,

I'm another happy owner of Lyngdorf. Been often finding ronildoq for recommendations & help along the way. Really grateful with his help on my journey. As much is being said. I would like to share this clip I did at my place. Hope it helps you on listening the differences

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=14kDPvEknabivwmg20umno9s0UhcrM_op



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 18, 2019, 17:50
Congrats ! Welcome to the club, do share your findings on the lyngdorf  as well
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 18, 2019, 19:50
Bro, try a higher XO and use the auxiliary sub connection! The bass is awesome, moving together with surrounds and Atmos, amazing experience.

The true legend clip that I’m testing for years, is providing something I’ve never experienced before in midbass, the bass imaging moving is so immersive

I’ve just tested some of the clips . Damn good, haven’t even fine tuned


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on February 18, 2019, 21:25
Bro, try a higher XO and use the auxiliary sub connection! The bass is awesome, moving together with surrounds and Atmos, amazing experience.

The true legend clip that I’m testing for years, is providing something I’ve never experienced before in midbass, the bass imaging moving is so immersive

I’ve just tested some of the clips . Damn good, haven’t even fine tuned


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Bro, right now my settings are 80hz for the 5ch & svs elevation are 120hz. 4subs are as your advice on auxiliary sub connection. Shall try higher crossover over the weekends. You did up any voicings yet?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 18, 2019, 23:21
Bro, right now my settings are 80hz for the 5ch & svs elevation are 120hz. 4subs are as your advice on auxiliary sub connection. Shall try higher crossover over the weekends. You did up any voicings yet?

Havent gone there, need to listen first. I think a lot of it will depend on individual rooms. Its something we need to listen. Ill share some of the voicings used, but it may not work for you.

Id suggest you have a listen to the default voicing options first, the Movie + action voicing, try that & see if you like it.... then tune again... the tuning part is where all the fun begins.....
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 18, 2019, 23:44
ok, lets get started now. First Lets look at what to do once the system is hooked up.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Rj_v2xUV7y30vpRiljIxLs7m09Q7zpy7)

Select the layout. In this case, i didnt use the LFE. I opted for the Auxiliary 1 & 2 as my Sub Pair. Disabling the LFE will route both Stereo Bass and LFE bass to both Sub Aux 1 & Sub Aux 2. This method is very good, its a must.
Aux 3 & 4 is used as TOP middle Left & Right. This channel is matrixed between Top Front and Top Rear post processing


(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1KmbgKuHpCMkk33D_5zAlPevl1zqb2YxX)
Once this is done, proceed to choose the XO. though my speakers roll off at 40hz, i opted for a higher XO. 2 octaves above the roll off point at 120hz. Use Natural roll off is set to "NO". If you set to yes, it means the main speaker will handle bass down to 40hz as seen in my case, which is my main speakers roll off point. Subs will also handle bass

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=12f9hjDMuY9yYaJRhRtau9ki5YxQzjLqO)
Next i opted for a higher XO on Atmos speakers at custom 160hz

PS:Remember to set the subs left right LPF 125hz, this means LFE will play only up to 125hz. Stereo bass is already decided in the XO of the mains, ie stereo bass below 120hz is sent to subs from mains and stereo bass below 160hz sent to subs from atmos.Make sure your subs are good up to the XO region

The above is just experiment work, to test and see how it works. So far so good, im liking every bit of this combination. Once we are done with XO, its time to set the Distance.....
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 19, 2019, 00:22
Input the distance should be fairly straight forward. You could just get a laser meter like the one below, cheap from Taobao or anywhere. Measure and point towards tweeter and record it down and input into the lygndorf

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1UBv50Vay_NFkMCEv9oHQk2XWR_3eeg7Y)

Thats the fast way. But if you are particular like me, and if you have a UMIK-1 mic, do the distance calculation this method. Why this method? This method takes into account the electronical delays. This delay is not the same as delay we apply altering phase response. Entering the distance with a tape measure or laser meter is not really ideal if you want pin point accurate results. Remember, our focus is timing, every ms counts.

before we start, set all to 0 on the Lyngdorf.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1sC4fQcED9bmNoTCMC7utfqAYo22afnW-)

Once this is done, use REW to set to use with acoustic timing reference as below.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1KvaEi3n9aqEVmvxTC7B6blMDWoBhcQ06)

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1S6oxfd01SfQbIFVdbDf0T6-ntgn3k_Zf) <-- sample pic

choose the nearest speaker, in my case, surround right is the nearest speaker & is channel 8, so i use channel 8 as the acoustic timing reference. Then measure channel 1,2,3 so on and continue until channel 7. You will see this.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1YjLM1W02ymewWOvaD3QRRN25fWHwSGiQ)

Now key in 0 distance on surround right since it is the speaker with timing reference, and key in 2.47ft or 75.4cm on the right channel. Measure all the other channels and continue to key in the distance on the lyngdorf

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1Y9Z7LvL2fDGdcKW-oF0MWJuLyOMeGcjk)
centre channel show 59.5cm or 1.95ft

This should be measured with the XO engaged, because thats what the speakers will be playing, above its XO point, so that impulse is the one that matters

ps://There is no way to measure atmos channels now, so you will have to plug it out, connect to any of the other 7 channels and measure, example; connect to channel 1&2 (left right) to measure for atmos top LR

Once you have completed above, run Room Perfect...... Of course before that subs should be in phase, XO set to the max, delays set accordingly, let the Processor handle Bass Management. Give RP a bit of a headstart pls.....

to be continued... zzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on February 19, 2019, 06:44
Glad to see more members opting for other brands of HT equipment to their shopping list. Hope to see more variety of AVRs and Pre/Pro in the forum to make it more interesting. Keep up the good work Ronni.

Keep the info coming.


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Title: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 19, 2019, 08:56
So next up, let’s see the impulse of the two measurements posted above, one for the right channel and another for the centre channel

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190219/1c70c50baf66f59ebf26989cab699456.jpg)

First overlay the two or however many measurements you want. Set the Y axis to 110, -110. On the x axis, -0.007 and -0.001

To see the distance, press CTRL+right click mouse, drag the cursor from the Peak of the first impulse of the centre (in blue), to the peak of the right channel (in red). You can see that the distance shows 0.158m. This is the difference between centre and right channel. Same as above pics. Where (754-595mm) .So you know the acoustic timing reference measurements are correct.

The approach above was using surrounds as Timing reference. So moral of the story here is, it doesn’t matter what the actual distances are, what matters is the distance relative to the timing reference speaker. That means all speakers will be delayed against the nearest speaker, so that the impulse will all arrive at the same time, centred at 0. Remember, the nearest speaker needs to be delayed in order to match the further speakers. So setting a longer distance on that channel, will inform the avr to send the impulse early by that amount of Time. That is our goal here .

Another way to verify is to measure the centre and right speakers after one had input all the distances into the avr, it will show that it is centred at 0. If it doesn’t, follow the process again. Sometimes it could be due to microphone being moved. Try not to move it. Make sure it’s firmly placed on the floor. That is the verification process to confirm that all your speakers are perfectly time aligned with acoustical delays taken into consideration. Let’s see the pics later tonight of speakers that are all aligned, vs initial speakers response





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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 20, 2019, 14:03
Next up is the Challenging Question.

What subwoofer distance should we use and why?

First would be to measure the physical distance from the listening position to the back of the subwoofer. BACK of the subwoofer, because the reflected energy off the boundary is where it matters most when combined with the direct energy. So 1st distance will be MLP to wall of location of subwoofer (if its boundary load), in my case, one sub located 5m (using laser measure from MLP) at boundary, another pair located behind MLP at 2.5m.

Next we need to add another 1m distance to the actual physical distance of the subs. This is because any low pass filters from the subs, will introduce electronic delays. In my case, the seatons F18 amp will have 2.9ms delay = 1meter. So i need to add this distance to both subs, it is now 6m for sub 1 & 3.5m for sub 2.

Is this it? No. Its not over. We cannot stop at the above when we apply distance to the subwoofer channels (Aux 1 & 2). Neither can we use the impulse response approach as above since the impulse response of the speakers are dominated by the upper frequencies. (ie A tweeter will have a way faster impulse compared to a woofer). We are more concerned with how the low frequencies add up and blend in with each other.

So next we need to look at the RTA (real time analysis) for this to work, using REW's internal generator, run the pink periodic noise and look at the magnitude response of both the subwoofers combined. This would normally mean adding distance to the further subs, so the processor will send out an early signal for the sub that is further away from MLP. Keep adding until we have the best blend in Magnitude response from both subwoofers.

Once the subs blend in and supplement each other, we are now ready and we leave RP to handle the integration of all speakers with Subs in the time domain. 99% of the time RP will get the blending of subs and speakers to work flawlessly.<--Main Strength of RP, you need this to work to bring out the best from the Lyngdorf MP-50

The above process requires a bit of skill and measurement technique using REW. I will not go there unless there is request to do it
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: YANG on February 20, 2019, 17:08
All the while i thought i saw the Lyngdorf name somewhere, but couldn't recall...until 30mins earlier when i was looking at karaoke system offer @ TeoHeng webpage... the name STEINWAY LYNGDORF is listed there!!!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 20, 2019, 18:00
All the while i thought i saw the Lyngdorf name somewhere, but couldn't recall...until 30mins earlier when i was looking at karaoke system offer @ TeoHeng webpage... the name STEINWAY LYNGDORF is listed there!!!

Steinway & Sons makes the best piano in the world, the collaboration with peter lyngdorf is how we are seeing Steinway Lyngdorf now. I didn’t even know such a brand existed until SDDS introduced the poisonzzz ... haha
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 22, 2019, 08:31
More info now as we unlock the secrets of room perfect. Before that let’s look at the frequency response, these are all taken using the same subwoofers, 4xf18 seatons


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/deef3348be54b0e549c1dd943cc0d99d.jpg)

The above is with Dirac Live correction

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/1d7907c2cd932b49237cb0701b6a4e25.jpg)

The above is Room Perfect

Now let’s look at the time domain

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/1215f360854cdd50f4ca41983977b25b.jpg)

The above is Dirac

The one below is Room perfect

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/d8713bf977ab53056a34e9bcefa3d1d4.jpg)

You can see one has a flat frequency response (no smoothing) when measured at the MLP and the other not so flat but better decay rates . Except for the frequencies at 42hz and 58hz, most of the frequencies decay in 300ms in a UNIFORM FASHION, clean down to 10hz! Uniformity is of paramount importance when looking at spectrograms

Axis Y represents time and axis X represents frequencies. What it essentially means is that when playing at 94db(see peak in red at the right hand side) at 58hz, the energy takes 580ms to dissipate into the noise floor . (Put the cursor at the peak of the blue plume and look at Y and X)

Ideally for HT, anything less than 500ms is good, less than 400ms very good, less than 300ms is superb. Less than 200ms, too tight, will sound dead. 300-400ms is a good range

How does the 2 different graph above sound?

The one with uniform decay rates, consistent plume, sounds MILES AHEAD BETTER..... the flat frequency response doesn’t sound bad, but many details missing. A lot of it is being masked out when playing at High SPLs. With room perfect, I can play at higher SPLs and still not miss out on the details. This is confirmed by playing the same demo clips

Gravity and true legend.

On the true legend scene, in the wells, ringing is well controlled, you hear only tight and fast punches.

The above is what I’m after after years of tweaking subs. I am not the SPLs guy, I’m more into the dynamics , headroom , texture and details .

The 18” subs are superb, doesn’t feel “slow” at all with RP.

Conclusion from my exercise. I can see that RP focuses on the time domain and not so on the phase response. So my next exercise is to phase align them perfectly instead of time aligning them before EQ. Because time alignment is done by RP superbly. Doesn’t take away the fact that phase alignment is also critical for Equal Loudness and this I have to do manually to get it right before running the RP EQ programme

For Dirac it’s the other way round, I would focus on the time alignment and polarity and let the programme handle the phase adjustments, that’s where Dirac is strong with its mixed phased filters 




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 23, 2019, 11:15
As can be seen from the above that by using lyngdorf’s room perfect, it doesn’t do much on the phase correction, so this has to do be done prior to running RP, it’s the better approach.

How do I then fix the null at 38hz and 50hz? I’m not sure at the moment, but

1) I suppose moving the subs would solve it. Then again it will create problems at other frequency.
2) Having a Helmholtz tuned trap works too, but I can’t have this at MLP.
3) Having nearfield subs would help too, but I never liked nearfield subs, I prefer farfield.

The 50hz issue is related to height behind MLP.

One approach I’ve learnt in the past is to have the driver of the midbass location sub face the wall, allowing 1-2” breathing space. This approach seem to work on many occasions, filling up the notch at lower midbass frequencies.

So yea this weekend moving the subs Drivers to face the wall instead then phase match them and re-run RP again.

Apart from that, at higher frequency and integration of subs and speakers are all working great. Nothing much to report


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 24, 2019, 11:24
Verification that all speakers are time aligned using the acoustic timing reference features from REW

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190224/e7cb8313528282b2920e6fb65965957a.jpg)

A better close up zoomed in view below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190224/d32f085ca14c49477ad24f4ce0aa13ca.jpg)

The above is left , centre , right channels... they all centre at 0

This is critical prior to running room perfect, if you find that there is difference, you can adjust the speaker distance again using the steps above , most of it are minor adjustments between 1-4cm. If you change the distance in avr by 10cm, you can see the impulse move by this distance and time as well. So the feature used here is very accurate to the millisecond


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 24, 2019, 11:29
On the above that moving the midbass subs driver facing the wall, here is the result in green, the red is when the subwoofer Drivers are facing MLP

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190224/f4ecbc8846d13f7e86a46611b46ae975.jpg)

You can see that the peak at 58hz down, and the hole 43-53hz filled up. This is achieved by shifting the subwoofer Drivers to face the wall instead of facing the MLP

This technique that I use, works all the time...

If you have this problem at home, the above method is how you can salvage something without moving MLP or subs




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 26, 2019, 19:40
Alright, more updates now. After completion of RP, it will show 100%. This includes measurements at height levels close to ceiling, a total of 14 measurements required to hit 100%. Each measurement takes 7 mins. It’s more than an hour to run these

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/03390d7f7916433ce76c47a9b81d437a.jpg)


then next step is to Ensure the speakers are all level matched.

For this exercise, I use an SPL meter to measure absolute levels. Playing the Dolby 9.1.6 test tones through a laptop, at master volume -30 on the avr, SPLs were registering 60db on the meter for the mains. I suppose laptop volume was at -15db off reference. Doesn’t matter really, what I wanted to achieve is equal loudness for all speakers. Not really equal, but something that sounds nice for me

I like the Centre channel 1db louder, surround backs 2.5db louder and Atmos overheads all 3db louder. Then I came across a new problem!

There is no setting to increase or reduce gain for the matrixed TOP centre channel on MP-50 vide auxiliary channel. Also realised that since both subs are connected to the auxiliary channel, there is no way to increase sub volume on the Lyngdorf post RP. Not so flexible

Lucky for me, there is a volume control on the Atmos speakers and subwoofer

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/c6c6d5a6b2df139f6ef6a943a9de2936.jpg)

There is a setting for -3, 0db ,+3db on the Atmos speakers. Since the matrixed TOP centre is receiving signal from TOP front and TOP rear combined, it sort of mirrored the gain settings from top rear and front. The sum of 2 added to 66db! 6db louder. With this volume knob on speakers, I can thankfully minus -3db and reduce it to 0, so it will be 63db, 3db louder than the mains, exactly where I like it to be and in line with the rest of the Atmos speakers

One of the reasons why I prefer to have my backs and TOP louder is because of how our ears hear sound from the back and TOP. Some people have more curve, some less, the shape of the ear somehow blocks out part of sound and how we perceive sound from the back and TOP. So yes, I found that 2.5-3.5db increase to be perfect for me.


Ps:// oh yea, it’s really good to have the Atmos Speaker’s equidistant from MLP. My Atmos for Right is Father away, i can tell when playing the Atmos clips, even with diffusors on ceiling and timing it perfectly. So actual listening confirms that equidistant placement is the way to go, as recommended by the Dolby guide. Thankfully I’m using a grid system, so I can swap the speakers again.


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 26, 2019, 19:53
VERY IMPORTANT NOTE

DO NOT adjust the gain settings on LFE channel post RP. I repeat DO NOT  adjust LFE.

The LFE settings has been calibrated to be 10db louder than the mains, which is the correct settings, ie LFE is mixed at 115db whilst the mains and the rest of the channels at 105db. Increasing the LFE gain will bring about imbalance between the Low frequency effect channel and the mains.

So DO NOT touch lfe gain settings after RP to maintain the channel balance between main channels and the subs

A better approach is to increase the gain settings on the subwoofer post RP, then measure the SPLs and response

Slightly different to Dirac and audyssey


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Jag on February 26, 2019, 20:15
Now let’s look at the time domain

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/1215f360854cdd50f4ca41983977b25b.jpg)

The above is Dirac

The one below is Room perfect

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190222/d8713bf977ab53056a34e9bcefa3d1d4.jpg)

You can see one has a flat frequency response (no smoothing) when measured at the MLP and the other not so flat but better decay rates . Except for the frequencies at 42hz and 58hz, most of the frequencies decay in 300ms in a UNIFORM FASHION, clean down to 10hz! Uniformity is of paramount importance when looking at spectrograms

Axis Y represents time and axis X represents frequencies. What it essentially means is that when playing at 94db(see peak in red at the right hand side) at 58hz, the energy takes 580ms to dissipate into the noise floor . (Put the cursor at the peak of the blue plume and look at Y and X)

Ideally for HT, anything less than 500ms is good, less than 400ms very good, less than 300ms is superb. Less than 200ms, too tight, will sound dead. 300-400ms is a good range.

Ronildoq, can you post the above again, but with the scale aligned the same?

Dirac and RP time domain dB scale is  not the same. Can you align them so that both of them are scaled the same?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 26, 2019, 21:04
Here is the link to the Dolby Test Tones

Dolby 7.1.4 test tones, you can use Media Player Classic to play this on Laptop
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17gue828b7zMpMhNCbGEdXO5KIURuf0on/view?usp=sharing

Dolby 9.1.6 Test Tones
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BQLxZtsi3fsYA5O3zUG2cmYjOzuH5PI9/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 26, 2019, 21:12
Ronildoq, can you post the above again, but with the scale aligned the same?

Dirac and RP time domain dB scale is  not the same. Can you align them so that both of them are scaled the same?

Jag, scale is the same for the spectrogram, Axis Y shows -200ms to 1 second, axis X is showing 10hz to 100hz. But yea i think the Amplitude response curve is of different scale. let me re-post that one
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Jag on February 26, 2019, 21:30
Jag, scale is the same for the spectrogram, Axis Y shows -200ms to 1 second, axis X is showing 10hz to 100hz. But yea i think the Amplitude response curve is of different scale. let me re-post that one

Yup. Amplitude scale should be scaled to be same.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 26, 2019, 21:33
Ronildoq, can you post the above again, but with the scale aligned the same?

Dirac and RP time domain dB scale is  not the same. Can you align them so that both of them are scaled the same?


Jag, this one clearer view

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/17968bfa55359cbdf1d7e9bcf64a6900.jpg)

Green Dirac live and Red is room perfect, room perfect doesn’t do well correcting phase response between the two, it’s better to manually adjust and tweak for the best combination before RP, then let the RP fix it in the time domain

This one shows time domain for Dirac below, look at the decay rates

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/123a712c880902e2d97e1bcdef458e07.jpg)

Then this one below is room perfect decay rates, very uniformed across

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/aea5deb65763eb743696d15264f4b783.jpg)

I’ve never seen anything so clean down to 10hz, decay in less than 300ms at 10hz




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 27, 2019, 08:40
In comparing the above , I can confirm again by listening, that room correction done in the time domain is far far better than just amplitude response , there is no doubt in my mind now that RP takes the lead for room correction. I have not seen any EQ programme that can correct the timing response of the bass that well down to 10hz without altering SPLs, (we know that an increase in SPLs , causes an increase in decay times. ), when the timing is right, the reflections tamed, the transient Attack is achieve. plus don’t forget mine is in the hall, big challenge and you can still see what RP is doing fixing it nicely.

Now I can relate why a single amplitude response doesn’t tell you much, what’s much more important is looking into the time domain of things. When all the impulse and frequency of subs and mains move together with early reflections eliminated, then we have a very good system

That peak from 58hz can easily be attenuated with a narrow band PEQ to further improve the decay times

Next up is the voicing curve or target curve, this target curve to be used will be down to preference

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/4215a64ecc2cb543f84ae0c96f0adb2e.jpg)

This seem to be a good voicing default movie curve, notice it’s using a high shelf filter with a negative trim. It’s very good to use this approach when you decide to EQ. What it does is it cuts away the mid to high frequency instead by -6 gently reducing from 63hz down to 200hz and then flat down thereafter. There is another gain setting above and this needs to be added back by 6db. So yes, change tonality by using whichever curve that suits your room, then adding back the gain. In short, use more gain, avoid boosting EQ

This approach is very very good for many reasons

1) you don’t hear the type of EQ sound like compressed kinda sound
2) there is no degradation to headroom. Adding a boosting filter will eat into the headroom
3) there is no change to the phase response
4) it doesn’t altar anything in the time domain

So yes, avoid boosting, use a high shelf filter instead, much much better

I’ve tried one with 100hz , Q 0.4, -8db, then up the gain settings on the voicing by +8

Still experimenting for the best target curve , sounds good so far


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on February 28, 2019, 08:01
VERY IMPORTANT NOTE

DO NOT adjust the gain settings on LFE channel post RP. I repeat DO NOT  adjust LFE.

The LFE settings has been calibrated to be 10db louder than the mains, which is the correct settings, ie LFE is mixed at 115db whilst the mains and the rest of the channels at 105db. Increasing the LFE gain will bring about imbalance between the Low frequency effect channel and the mains.

So DO NOT touch lfe gain settings after RP to maintain the channel balance between main channels and the subs

A better approach is to increase the gain settings on the subwoofer post RP, then measure the SPLs and response

Slightly different to Dirac and audyssey


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On this post here, why not to touch the LFE gain. Here is why.

LFE channel is the .1 track in the movie. It’s boosted 10db louder from mains. This should be maintained at all times for the channel balance. And this has already been factored into the avr after RP is done.

Also note there is also redirected bass, ie stereo bass from mains routed to the LFE, so all in the subs are taking on LFE 115db in reference + 5db redirected stereo bass from mains LCR and other channels to a maximum 120db in the digital domain.
 
Avoid at all cost boosting LFE, this will cause an imbalance to the stereo and LFE bass, + this will cause clipping in the digital domain if over boosting LFE.

A better approach again here is to up the levels on subwoofer by equal gain, using more amplifier power in the analog domain

So it’s important not to set the subs dial at maximum or 3 o’clock before eq, set it at midway point or lower before EQ

Then you maximise headroom ! That’s the way to go for lyngdorf




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 04, 2019, 13:42
Lyngdorf users, here is something i discovered. Its not a good news indeed. It looks like the problem for attenuating deep bass is not resolved entirely. It affects those who are running subs that can handle deep bass <20hz greatly. This problem has been identified when using subs through The auxiliary channels on lyngdorf, I’m not sure if using the LFE channel will work normally. But will rewire the cables to find out further

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/35119ee282d83bfabac62d9982803cb9.jpg)


The blue line shows subs, using channel 3 on REW, MV -20, with centre channel amplifier muted.

The green is also subs only, using channel 4 on rew, ( channel 4 is the LFE track, that 0.1 track)but MV-30 on MP50 (since LFE channel has a +10db)

Seems like RP is still attenuating gain <20hz, on the LFE channel Only. This is confirmed with my measurements and actual listening, the ULF is somehow missing, I don’t feel the ear pressure and the wobbly effect from single digit ULF


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Title: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 04, 2019, 13:44
Here is what happens when I bypass room perfect and switch it off

On neutral

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190304/5e112ffd8486590053f4a0fa4127acda.jpg)

Subwoofer channel all being constant , the only difference is a change in MV on mp50

Measuring channel 4 lfe (in blue), MV-30 on mp50, it shows 74.3db at 40hz

Measuring channel 3 (in green) MV-30, it shows 80.7db at 40hz (centre amplifier muted)

The one in brown shows channel 3 MV-20, it shows 90.8 at 40hz (centre channel amp muted)

Now the increase in volume from -30 to -20 is consistent here on channel 3, ie bass is routed correct and corresponds with the gain settings on master volume

But look at the LFE channel, it is not balanced. Technically the LFE channel should be +10db louder than channel 3, but instead it is 5db louder only. So I believe that +5db is stereo bass routed from mains. But where is that +10db on the LFE track ?

Also u will notice when I switch off RP, it doesn’t attenuate bass below 30hz anymore....

I’m going to try and use the LFE preout channel instead of the auxiliary channels for subs

I believe the auxiliary channels are good for small midbass subs, or boundary woofers that can handle bass up to 800hz...


Definitely not ideal when connecting the deep bass F18 seatons to this channel

Or could it be a firmware issue or bug?

The ULF is definitely missing


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 04, 2019, 21:01
Hello all,

As mentioned from bro ronildoq to not increase the LFE gain. So I'm the champion which did that.  ;D

I'm using aux 1 to 4 as I've 4subs. So I was exploring to understand why I did not have good bass. But after adding in the +10db in LFE, I felt the bass is alive from what I've felt from using Denon 7200wa(borrowed from a brother Winwinc81).

I went to rew & looked at my graphs(I will upload the photos over the weekend). Before calibrating all my subs are in phase(front sub 180° & rear sub 0°).

After roomperfect , my front subs are in phase, but to my shocking my rear subs are not in phase. So I wrote an email regarding I'm not getting good bass without telling them of the out of phase issues on my rear subs.

Myself

Hello Smith, 

Thanks for the advise. I've swapped the fronts with the subs. I ain't getting good bass effect. I would like to have some advise on this. Do I connect using LFE or from the aux 1-4 since I'm having 4subs. I've connected aux 1-4 at the moment. After calibration I've to up the LFE(trim audio) to +10db & I'm getting good bass effect. Would like to hear your recommendation /advice on this. 



Mr. Smith

Hi

if you have been setting up your speakers in the menu, you will see which outputs are dedicated to each speaker

when you set the front woofers to LEFT and RIGHT, the corresponding outputs will light up on the setup page

your problems are probably due to your rear woofers being out of phase – causing a lot of smearing

– I would suggest that you do not connect these and try to do a calibration just with the two fronts

as these are now in the corners, they will perform 3 to 6 dB higher than before 


Actually I'm quite shocked that they probably knew of the rear subs being out of phase.

I will try to calibrate just the front subs & unplugging the rear subs over the weekends.

I would like to thank bro ronildoq especially for entertaining my questions when I really was in doubt. Hopefully I'm not that annoying  :-\
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 05, 2019, 08:10
Bro, have u tried connecting your subs to the LFE preout using the splitter instead ? Something definitely wrong with the auxiliary channel when used with subs, I strongly believe it’s the firmware issue not fully resolved

I’m also checking with folks at avs forum... strange no one reported the issue

Gonna try again this weekend swapping it out to connect to LFE, gotta go get a xlr splitter


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 05, 2019, 08:29
Bro, have u tried connecting your subs to the LFE preout using the splitter instead ? Something definitely wrong with the auxiliary channel when used with subs, I strongly believe it’s the firmware issue not fully resolved

I’m also checking with folks at avs forum... strange no one reported the issue

Gonna try again this weekend swapping it out to connect to LFE, gotta go get a xlr splitter


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Bro,

Have not tried LFE yet. I plan over the weekend to do calibration on just front subs using AUX & LFE. Den share the comparison on the both. How do we measure the distance if we using LFE only? Example like me. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/5084acdeca6cbe268da8caea08c69b7b.jpg)

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 05, 2019, 08:47
Bro,

Have not tried LFE yet. I plan over the weekend to do calibration on just front subs using AUX & LFE. Den share the comparison on the both. How do we measure the distance if we using LFE only? Example like me. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/5084acdeca6cbe268da8caea08c69b7b.jpg)

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I think it will be hard to mix LFE with aux. the aux is good for subs that extends high to 800hz, those boundary woofers type. I don’t think our normal subs are meant to be used with this

I think you should try connecting all 4 subs to the LFE instead. Meaning you would have to first fix the interaction between the front two JL, then fix interaction between back pairs arendal and finally sum of all subs so they are all in phase , then level match them before EQ. Try this with choice of distance to input

1) physical distance of subs to MLP
2) add distance further due to amplifier electronical delay. Adding distance to subs will tell avr that subs is further away and need to send the signal earlier. U need to find out how much delay each amplifier introduces since u have JL and arendal. 1m = 2.92 milliseconds delay
3) adjust distance again on the furthest pair of sub, to find best combination blending the 2 pairs

That is how u should approach the subs before RP eq

Bear in mind that when all subs are in phase, you should hit a max 12db gain down Low frequency.

So I would level match the subs to mains before EQ by reducing the dial knob on the subs by 10db overall, that would mean bringing levels down on individual subs equally

Do share your results of connecting this to LFE




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: LTTan on March 05, 2019, 14:09

Nice room & setup. May I know if this setup is in the bedroom or living room?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 05, 2019, 14:58

Nice room & setup. May I know if this setup is in the bedroom or living room?
Hello LTTan,

Thank you for your kind words. The setup it's in the living room.

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: rock123 on March 05, 2019, 20:26
Bro,

Have not tried LFE yet. I plan over the weekend to do calibration on just front subs using AUX & LFE. Den share the comparison on the both. How do we measure the distance if we using LFE only? Example like me. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/5084acdeca6cbe268da8caea08c69b7b.jpg)

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Superb setup bro. :) Big Congrats and your definitely enjoy it :) Happy for u.
Never see your Dual Arendal Beast subs :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 05, 2019, 21:58
Hello all,

As mentioned from bro ronildoq to not increase the LFE gain. So I'm the champion which did that.  ;D

I'm using aux 1 to 4 as I've 4subs. So I was exploring to understand why I did not have good bass. But after adding in the +10db in LFE, I felt the bass is alive from what I've felt from using Denon 7200wa(borrowed from a brother Winwinc81).

I went to rew & looked at my graphs(I will upload the photos over the weekend). Before calibrating all my subs are in phase(front sub 180° & rear sub 0°).

After roomperfect , my front subs are in phase, but to my shocking my rear subs are not in phase. So I wrote an email regarding I'm not getting good bass without telling them of the out of phase issues on my rear subs.

Myself

Hello Smith,

Thanks for the advise. I've swapped the fronts with the subs. I ain't getting good bass effect. I would like to have some advise on this. Do I connect using LFE or from the aux 1-4 since I'm having 4subs. I've connected aux 1-4 at the moment. After calibration I've to up the LFE(trim audio) to +10db & I'm getting good bass effect. Would like to hear your recommendation /advice on this.



Mr. Smith

Hi

if you have been setting up your speakers in the menu, you will see which outputs are dedicated to each speaker

when you set the front woofers to LEFT and RIGHT, the corresponding outputs will light up on the setup page

your problems are probably due to your rear woofers being out of phase – causing a lot of smearing

– I would suggest that you do not connect these and try to do a calibration just with the two fronts

as these are now in the corners, they will perform 3 to 6 dB higher than before 


Actually I'm quite shocked that they probably knew of the rear subs being out of phase.

I will try to calibrate just the front subs & unplugging the rear subs over the weekends.

I would like to thank bro ronildoq especially for entertaining my questions when I really was in doubt. Hopefully I'm not that annoying  :-\
Went back home today to upload this. Hopefully I gotten the rew correct & apologies if it's wrong on my doing.

Using neutral & MV at -30
As mention 4subs. 2x JL Audio E112 (front subs) 2x Arendal Sub3 (rear subs) Connecting it via Aux 1-4

When using Ch3, only the front subs are activated. Using Ch4 all subs will be activated.

I've muted the center(ch3) when measuring during rew. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/784d8266af7d57e96d05441d4cd87170.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/8a481657a1d84186c6e56afc523b0889.jpg)

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 06, 2019, 09:43
Superb setup bro. :) Big Congrats and your definitely enjoy it :) Happy for u.
Never see your Dual Arendal Beast subs :)
Hello rock123,

Thank you for your kind words bro. Arendal subs at the rear. Hehehe

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 06, 2019, 10:58
Went back home today to upload this. Hopefully I gotten the rew correct & apologies if it's wrong on my doing.

Using neutral & MV at -30
As mention 4subs. 2x JL Audio E112 (front subs) 2x Arendal Sub3 (rear subs) Connecting it via Aux 1-4

When using Ch3, only the front subs are activated. Using Ch4 all subs will be activated.

I've muted the center(ch3) when measuring during rew. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/784d8266af7d57e96d05441d4cd87170.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190305/8a481657a1d84186c6e56afc523b0889.jpg)

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Bro do this

On MV-30, measure channel 4. Mute all amplifier for speakers . This will measure the LFE channel, that 0.1 track

On MV-20, measure channel 3, mute all amplifier. This will show if bass is being routed correctly from centre channel to the subs , ie bass management is working as intended when u engage the XO. XO for centre at 200hz just for this test to confirm

Measure this with global profile or room perfect engaged

Then for the range,  if u subs can go Low, measure from 10hz to 200hz... see how it shows

I’ve just got some replies at avs forum someone confirming that the subs for auxiliary is to be used with boundary woofers

So I believe we should use the LFE. Ive just hooked up the ddrc88a last night, will use Dirac to EQ subs then send the signal to lyngdorf for RP integration , taking different route now

I will verify and confirm again


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 06, 2019, 11:24
When u engage a XO 100hz on centre channel. Example.

If bass management is working, that means any frequencies below 100hz will be handled by the subwoofer.

LFE track also plays frequencies up to 100hz if you set the Low pass filter to 100hz.

But on rew, measuring channel 4 means measuring the LFE channel. Measuring channel 3 means measuring centre channel. So by muting channel 3 (ie amp for centre speakers) , it will send a signal to channel 3, but remember channel 3 is having xo at 100hz, so u can see from here if bass is being routed correctly to the subs

But LFE channel , ie channel 4, is 10db louder.

So measuring at mv-20 for channel 3, mv-30 for channel 4, will show you an indentical amplitude response at least up to 100hz. You then can confirm that bass management is working as intended in the avr

I’m pretty sure the auxiliary channels are not meant for use with our normal subs after performing the above exercise . OR it could be a firmware issue. So I need to confirm measurements again when subs are connected to LFE


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 06, 2019, 20:26
How does room perfect integrate my 4subs using aux 1-4 (125hz)

MV -30, Neutral (Ch 4 only)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190306/7f9558aa3cef0c101aee118653d6bf88.jpg)

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 06, 2019, 22:05
How does room perfect integrate my 4subs using aux 1-4 (125hz)

MV -30, Neutral (Ch 4 only)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190306/7f9558aa3cef0c101aee118653d6bf88.jpg)

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Bro looks good all subs summing up. Is this after RP ? Global EQ or Focus EQ ?

The one in red, sum of all subs at -30mv, measure another channel 3 sum of all subs at -20mv , overlay them

Look at 2 things

1) if the response is identical
2) if it’s attenuating deep bass < 30hz -20hz

I think that’s the crux of the issue here using auxiliary channels

If u measure channel 3 at mv -30, u should see the graph having +10db apart from the one on channel 4, then you can confirm the channel balance is correct , ie LFE .1 track is +10db louder than mains


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 07, 2019, 08:20
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190307/9fb8256045018e2eba910ef4db21d4ea.jpg)

See this one of the guys on avs using the MP50, confirms as well that the auxiliary channel subs are meant to go with the lyngdorf type of boundary subwoofers

Those stacked at corner line source type of boundary woofers that is efficient in the high pass band. This arrangement brings much greater benefits where room modes are greatly reduced

When the subs are stacked from floor to ceiling in “line source”, the reflections off ceiling and floor is eliminated, we are then left with corner (left right) boundaries , this then produces the speed and Attack

Same methodology applied by the Ken Kreisel subs , stack stack stack using dual oppose design in their subs. Will be very effective when it comes to stack from floor to ceiling , that’s when time domain response plays a huge impact on the transient Attack from the subs

So small 8”-10” Drivers, stacked in a line , high pass band up to 800hz, pairs with the mains being XO at 700hz, placed at the corners, floor to ceiling , then it goes with the auxiliary channels

So yes, our subs are good for LFE, not meant to be used with the auxiliary, unless you go the above approach. The above is only beneficial when taking advantage of the vertical room modes, subs that play up to 800hz type. No benefits whatsoever below 80hz

Hope that helps, I’d suggest you use the LFE for all subs, that’s what I’ll be doing now



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sypderman88 on March 07, 2019, 12:08
Hi,

 There are some  interesting findings here. It seems for sub, time domain optimization has more impact than frequency domain through actual lisetening test. A perfect flat graph in freq domain does not guarantee superb sub performance.
 However these two are inter-related. For example reducing peak to to improve time domain response to say within certain decay time at certain freq will also affect the freq response graph to be less than ideal.
  If so is there a way to optimize time domain and frequency domain for sub without compromising one another ?
 Please share. Thanks
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 07, 2019, 18:26
Hi Spyder-Man!! You are my fav superhero!!

It seems for sub, time domain optimization has more impact than frequency domain through actual lisetening test. A perfect flat graph in freq domain does not guarantee superb sub performance. <-- you are right. That is why you will hear some people saying, flat graph but doesnt sound nice. Better not EQ or better use ears. But whats missing here is the Time Domain measurements. Both need to be right. I can confirm that a superior time domain alignment is miles better than a perfect amplitude response. You can see from the graph ive achieved that +-0.5db 8-100hz with Dirac EQ, but yet find that room perfect sounded way better due to superior time alignment of mains + subs and a good uniformed decay rate

reducing peak to improve time domain response to say within certain decay time at certain freq will also affect the freq response graph to be less than ideal.<—yes and no. It depends how that peak is brought down, there is a difference between using a Modal Filter and Peak Filter. Modal filters are used to accurately counter modal frequencies in the room to match a specific T60 time. A peak filter just attenuates a given peak at a specific frequency, its filters doesn’t account for T60 time. A lot of the minidsp devices comes with modal filters . One thing you need to note is that a peak at MLP may not necessarily translate to a peak at listening position 2. So that is why some peaks are not attenuated because they are not really standing waves or modal frequencies. Another thing is that there is a difference between time alignment vs improving decay times. What RP does very well is time aligning all subs with all speakers in play. It’s the integration part so all impulse hit at the same time at MLP as how they are supposed to. The real challenge is the longer wavelengths & its reflections off walls that arrives later at MLP , especially from lower frequencies. It also does a good job with improving decay times . So two different important things it improves here.


  If so is there a way to optimize time domain and frequency domain for sub without compromising one another ?
 Please share. Thanks <— it’s easy to get the best amplitude response as can be seen from my work using Dirac above. But it’s very hard to achieve superior time alignment between subs and mains, plus all other speakers, this part is very very difficult. You can probably optimise subs with centre speakers, as that speaker matters most for HT. That is the best you can do. Other programmes like JBL’s arcos system does a great job as well



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 07, 2019, 21:06
Bro looks good all subs summing up. Is this after RP ? Global EQ or Focus EQ ?

The one in red, sum of all subs at -30mv, measure another channel 3 sum of all subs at -20mv , overlay them

Look at 2 things

1) if the response is identical
2) if it’s attenuating deep bass < 30hz -20hz

I think that’s the crux of the issue here using auxiliary channels

If u measure channel 3 at mv -30, u should see the graph having +10db apart from the one on channel 4, then you can confirm the channel balance is correct , ie LFE .1 track is +10db louder than mains


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This is after RP. Global EQ.

Shall try your recommendation tmr night & upload the results. Let's cross fingers

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 08, 2019, 17:55
Bro looks good all subs summing up. Is this after RP ? Global EQ or Focus EQ ?

The one in red, sum of all subs at -30mv, measure another channel 3 sum of all subs at -20mv , overlay them

Look at 2 things

1) if the response is identical
2) if it’s attenuating deep bass < 30hz -20hz

I think that’s the crux of the issue here using auxiliary channels

If u measure channel 3 at mv -30, u should see the graph having +10db apart from the one on channel 4, then you can confirm the channel balance is correct , ie LFE .1 track is +10db louder than mains


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Ok. Here's the results. I did more readings just incase. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/29e2928a172030c10bf52684291b7f5c.jpg)

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on March 08, 2019, 19:16
Ok. Here's the results. I did more readings just incase. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/29e2928a172030c10bf52684291b7f5c.jpg)

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Just incase if I confuse anyone. Below pictures are the more detailed.

Apologies for the spamming (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/0ec1eb0db1f8d9eb9ab58ba33834057a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190308/4a47543d4e9627614d41630f0a6ae890.jpg)

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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 09, 2019, 10:40
Bro, thanks for posting your version

A simple 2 graph picture is all you will need to tell a lot of things

I can confirm that the channel balance is correct. The problem I’ve had was due to one of the f18 woofer at deep bass location having an air leak !! Yes, air leak on the woofer

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/67ea950b6603ca79542962ecbc891073.jpg)

No wonder the deep bass was missing, tightened some screws and see the difference in DB, same master volume , 20db off ! And I thought it was the lyngdorf firmware issue.

So with your confirmation above, can safely conclude that the channel balance is set correctly and deep bass attenuation issue had been fixed indeed, great news !

But having gone through a thorough examination of the mp50, I would still go with LFE for the subs, unless you are using the boundary woofers

You can see from above on one single graph green vs red, channel 4 (LFE) -30 and channel 3 (centre) -20, see the green line from 30-40hz, there is cancellation between your front two subs. And using this auxiliary method, it will send bass from centre to the front subs only.

But using the LFE connection method, it will send the sum of all 4 subs signal as 1, which is the red signal, much better

Technically the lfe and channel 3 should should be identical. Then u know bass management is working correctly




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 14, 2019, 08:54
Ok, confirmed measurement , simulated amplitude response not as accurate, the room Sim is. But for amplitude, not so accurate.... so back down to basic, actual measurements are best, no chance for shortcut

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190121/d551b1721e1a874b09350eb4b9bcab92.jpg)

The green above is the stacked subs. I’ve inserted a high pass filter for the co located subs shown in blue, a high pass of 23hz 48db Butterworth filter. I could just leave it without the high pass filter. It will contribute to the ULF. But I have energy going into the room, the high pass filter on the colocated subs will bring about the lower midbass and midbass Attack and speed, not introducing too much energy into the room on other areas. (PS: a dip at MLP <30hz, could be a peak at other locations), high passing was the obvious choice for me...I’ll use the stacked corner subs for ULF, should have ample juice with a 6000w amplifier at 1.5k watts each, that should be more than enough horse power

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/abea738964d2ea41b27b16efd7ec15c5.jpg)

This is the actual response before room perfect, measured at a target 80db, both summing up without having to reach for the delay knob or to invert phase...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/3cddaecc377363f077e8b4060b4d2967.jpg)

Now let’s look at the subs in the time domain... you can see it’s clean down from 56hz to 100hz , decay is less than 0.4ms from 56hz onwards. This means the kitchen sliding bass trap door (this is a special door, with 120kg density rockwool stuffed inside, backing with mass loaded vinyl and ply finishing.) and the ceiling panels are working as intended. Previously I used to have ringing at 68hz and 90hz... this is now eliminated, measurements taken at 40db above noise floor , as u can see in red, the peak SPLs at 92db.
The only problem now is the 55hz ringing, u can see it extends up to more than 1ms, this is nasty. It is caused by the height modes in the room and I know exactly where this location is. But I’ll use EQ to attenuate this peak and bring down the ringing. This can be confirmed from the second graph above as well, u can see the peak in the room at 55hz. As for the 20-40hz slow decay rate, this Is common, especially for lower frequencies. But for these frequencies, I’ll use the PSI active bass trap to improve decay times and I know exactly where this should be placed.

All in, you will notice that the decay rates are uniform, consistent, and somewhat downward sloping according to the room. Downward sloping meaning from 56hz onwards at 0.38ms and as it approaches 100hz, the time taken for the energy to dissipate becomes 0.2ms, as can be seen from the blue plume...

Everything is exactly where I want it to be, for HT... this can be confirmed with actual listening, a much tighter and controlled midbass and upper midbass, very natural indeed due to the consistent decay rates...

Now that I have the collective measurement data, it’s time to dismantle the system and hook up the lyngdorf today

My focus is mainly on bass management and bass, this is the most difficult area in my experience setting up a HT system, but let’s hope RP blends the mains and subs well, let’s see what RP will bring to the table

More updates as and when I have them...

My main job is to bring out the best in the MP-50 in my living room, the subs, and all the equipment in the chain.

No Pain No Gain !


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But I have energy going into the room, the high pass filter on the colocated subs will bring about the lower midbass and midbass Attack and speed, not introducing too much energy into the room on other areas.

Hi guys, correcting one misconception above. Introducing the high pass filter doesn’t bring any benefits at all to speed and transient Attack from the subs. The speed and Attack is achieved with good time alignment from the subs. The high pass filter is just helpful to protect the subs , that’s all there is to it. It however introduces delay that messes up with the time response

So correction on my part after experiencing the above, I’ve removed the high pass filter on the subs located at strong midbass position. It is far more detrimental in my case, as it doesn’t contribute down Low after this filter and messes things up in the time domain, that affects the speed actually, so it’s the other way round

If someone tells u high pass for midbass and Low pass for deep bass, u may want to actually confirm if this really is beneficial to the set up as a whole
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 14, 2019, 13:08
Some good news on the EDID issue on the MP50.

Every now and then if I come across any issues on the mp50, it will be updated on the front page together with that solutions if any...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190314/36a5b7b578294ad4df95e5a5f30f9e67.jpg)

Let’s hope this gets fixed permanently soon


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 14, 2019, 18:29
Further confirmed updates. Recently I swapped in to use the minidsp ddrc88a using Dirac live to EQ the subs and then use RP to calibrate the system as 1.

The results were far from satisfactory.

On the amplitude response , it was good, but time domain measurements not so. RP then just literally undo what Dirac did, it somehow reversed and adjusted for a better time response. Though the amplitude response was slightly better, but time domain adjustments weren’t as good. Having Dirac just messes up the whole thing. Immediately the transient Attack from the 18” subs were gone.

So again back to square one !! Connect directly to the LFE using splitters and manually adjust delay / phase on the subwoofers finding the best blend before EQ, that gave the best results

With the above, I’ve now completed my experiment work on the mp50 and understand better now on how to bring out the best in this processor

Once I’ve completed dialing in the subs, it’s demo time !


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 18, 2019, 19:47
Reading through avs thread on lyngdorf then I saw this

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190318/17b4047acf015d6f84f12a6240d79d31.jpg)

Few years ago I avoided using Monoprice hdmi, quality is horrible and lotsa issue, causes Denon avr to fail also... today this chap is a bit unlucky...


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: BlurRhino on March 18, 2019, 22:06
I am curious how the cables will cause the HDMI ports to fail?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 19, 2019, 08:13
I am curious how the cables will cause the HDMI ports to fail?


Don’t be surprised. The monoprice ones are using redmere chip, I suspect the chip in it causes it. It happened on all 3 sets, my set, my uncles and my uncles friend’s. All Denon previously. Luckily all on warranty. Sent to Denon replaced with new hdmi boards. What is the probability of all 3 failing at the same time ? Was pretty clear to us

Plus we were very careful, swapping them out after some time for the static to discharge itself

After that we confirmed it’s the Monoprice hdmi. So we stopped using it.

that’s my personal experience , quality is lousy, not even decent. There are so many choices at equivalent price

So when swapping cable, the hdmi cable can actually damage the hdmi board. It has got some sort of static charge.




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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 19, 2019, 08:40
Ok, confirmed measurement , simulated amplitude response not as accurate, the room Sim is. But for amplitude, not so accurate

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Ok sorry folks, I need to correct this statement. The REW’s simulated amplitude response does work actually. If you r running version 5.19 and above, you have this option. So I’m on 5.20 beta 6.

The reason why it didn’t work for me previously was because one of the woofer f18 had an air leak. The air leak messes up the amplitude response. So that’s the reason.

This approach will save u literally hours of time finding the best combination between subs and the pair

1) measure the individual subs response at its various locations. (Ie front wall, left wall, back wall, corner, etc) whichever possible positions. Just individual subs response to see what it’s doing at its location. Save this file it will be very very useful

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190319/41e1e54133c11cd438a74a87b57759e2.jpg)

Under settings you can see trace arithmetic, use this for example, sub a at front corner + sub B at back of MLP

Click the button generate, it will show you the best phase matched combination of the two subwoofers

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190319/921876b2d391388ee061d51431535de6.jpg)

See this above, simulated colocated subs response vs actual measurements of colocated subs, almost identical

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190319/d49a612779d2f1482e294ec6b1802b6c.jpg)

Once you have that, you can also add simulated response with simulated response to get the combination of the pairs

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190319/58f0b5c3a2ffb23860eb903f73e2b114.jpg)

The above shows simulated pair + simulated pair combined response vs actual measurements of all 4 subs with best delay combination

Very good indeed rew. Saved me literally hours of moving the subs around

Armed with this information, it’s much more easier for me to dial in the subs knowing exactly which place I should put the subs for the best combination

As always, I hope the above will help you in your journey. Feel free to shoot your questions


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: bluepill193 on March 19, 2019, 08:44
Monoprice HDMI sucks. Ordered 2 pcs of non-redmere cables from Amazon. One DOA  and the other died after a few months.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 19, 2019, 09:02
Monoprice HDMI sucks. Ordered 2 pcs of non-redmere cables from Amazon. One DOA  and the other died after a few months.

See, told u, I found out like 4-5 years ago...quality damn lousy, I mean, really lousy...

I don’t hold anything against Monoprice, but for me it’s realh lousy . It not only didn’t work, but spoiled my equipment, dare not use it after that
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ralfale on March 19, 2019, 10:02
Nice sharing Bryan! Very informative thread on concepts and measurements.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: BlurRhino on March 19, 2019, 10:03
It’s quite scary to hear that cables can damage components in this way.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 19, 2019, 13:40
Nice sharing Bryan! Very informative thread on concepts and measurements.

 ;) its the best must have tool ever, minidsp's UMIK-1, with REW. USD75 cannot ask for more

I try to share as much so everyone here will benefit. i still remember till today, when i needed help, i got all the help from Jag. So am still very thankful until today. Its my turn to help now :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 19, 2019, 13:43
It’s quite scary to hear that cables can damage components in this way.

Indeed. Luckily mine was a denon, way back. Cant imagine if its the lyngdorf, will have to send it back to Denmark....

There is one particular Moshou HDMI brand, so claimed HDMI 2.1 cable, that cable is very good, able to carry the bandwidth etc. Not expensive as well. Ive tested it plays flawlessly on 12k material, colour is also good and less grainy.... Not bad for the price, from China
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on March 19, 2019, 22:48
I’ve used many of the thin active monoprice (redmere) cables with my Emotiva XMC and Umc before that and no issues. When I upgrade I’ll maybe have to look for something different.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: whitesox on March 20, 2019, 00:59

Don’t be surprised. The monoprice ones are using redmere chip, I suspect the chip in it causes it. It happened on all 3 sets, my set, my uncles and my uncles friend’s. All Denon previously. Luckily all on warranty. Sent to Denon replaced with new hdmi boards. What is the probability of all 3 failing at the same time ? Was pretty clear to us

Plus we were very careful, swapping them out after some time for the static to discharge itself

After that we confirmed it’s the Monoprice hdmi. So we stopped using it.

that’s my personal experience , quality is lousy, not even decent. There are so many choices at equivalent price

So when swapping cable, the hdmi cable can actually damage the hdmi board. It has got some sort of static charge.


I bought HDMI cable from Robert @ SLT (8m).
He recommended using HDMI cable with the redmere chip (cable has no brand). He reminded me to take note on the orientation.
Brought it back and never think this cable will cause me trouble.

Holyshit... when I used starhub setup-box to test this cable, it burned my Starhub setup-box although I plug in very carefully (OFF everything and noted on the orientation)
Lucky me, I didn't plug in directly to my HT setup and I got a replacement black-box from Starhub for free.
 
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 21, 2019, 11:59
side tracked on HDMI a bit, now back to Lyngdorf and more things to keep a look out. Ive gained my experience mostly from using the software REW and helping other members in the forum, whenever i can. One thing ive noticed that even an experienced HT enthusiasts also gets wrong when setting up the subs, is the absolute polarity on the subs. Im sharing this for your knowledge, so it will help bring out the best in your system.

Take a look at this graph below.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1JkuzcTnZGjoz1vfEl3IGHd8PDLWX7PWQ)

It shows a nice response of corner placed subs + side placed subs nicely adding up in Phase.

However when you look at the impulse to check for polarity, you notice this.........

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1lOsspUF9wy_-FMf4fB7V1Y7Oyik1AdMr)

when you look at the impulse response overlaid, the polarity of one of the sub is 180 degrees out. If you have 2 Low Frequency sources of differing phase relationships (that means timing relationships) they will cancel. And if they are "in phase", but 1, 2, 3 or more full cycles (that means wavelengths) shifted, (that means 360 or 720 or 1080 degrees out of phase) then the overall frequency response will not seem bad but the impulse response and clarity and focus will be smeared. They may seem to be in phase, but the fact is that they are shifted in time, 360 degrees or 720 shifted in time out of phase to sum

In the above example, it sounds like the bass frequencies are good and nicely done in the frequency domain but the IMPULSE RESPONSE is now muddied. Timing is affected

having the correct matched polarity matters for dual subs, this can be easily done with the Minidsp DDRC there is actually an Invert button like this

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1P5ahVOuQGQCkzvWnsXQdnSKxoG6jnUAG)

Or on certain subs there is a switch for polarity, invert that and you can verify if subs are having a matched polarity.

So here is an example of a sub with matched Polarity. Noticed the first rise of the impulse is both Positive, compared to the first pic above. These two subs are in polarity. :)

This shows good time alignment of both subs, though a 1 ms on Left (green) sub will be perfect

(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1XHbJF6zxIP-XRqTYx5iyFsM4g-OEKrM1)

as you can see from above, a phased matched system will not tell you anything at all looking at the just the amplitude response alone, time domain measurements are far more critical.

Hope the above helps! ;) as usual, feel free to shoot any questions
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on March 21, 2019, 12:07
Same would apply to a single sub in a setup where full range mains can go low too. 
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 21, 2019, 12:20
Same would apply to a single sub in a setup where full range mains can go low too.

yes ! mains and subs time alignment will be next after the subs... But i find that for movies especially, no matter how good the mains are, its better to segregate the low frequencies below 80-100hz to the subs and let the mains focus above this range. Somehow the mains play better when " tasked" to handle higher freq and stripped off of low bass duty. The dynamic range improves significantly, especially when the mains are in cruising mode. Of course if the blending of mains and subs are not done well in the time domain, it will sound worse off compared to mains playing full range.

I understand better now after owning the Lyngdorf. I can see many things on implementation and design, they are really good stuff

I highly recommend this processor if funds permit, its so easy to use and its absolute top class
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 22, 2019, 07:49
Let’s find out more about how I further fine tune the set up

A recent topic popped up on centre speaker placement on tv console by bro Sevenz

Here is how I did mine.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190321/1840b11a46c2429f55d0f9d1f2c11797.jpg)

Take a look at the above example where the left speakers are boundary loaded (in blue) and when it is moved forward (in brown). if I go with a XO of 100hz and speaker moved forward, I need not worry about the response below 100hz where the subs are given its duty and above 100hz the speakers take over. When the response is better, I leave RP to do the blending of subs + mains

Why I chose 100hz? The first criteria is to look at the roll off point of the mains. In my case above, u can see the roll off is 40hz, that’s the monitor audio gold gx300 series. Roll off. Normally you would want to cross it at an octave above ie 80hz

But as u can see above, going with 80hz there is a null at 80-100 (in brown).So no amount of room EQ can solve this, the ideal choice is then 100hz XO or higher, 120hz . But the blue is good to cross at 80hz.

Which would be the better along the two? 100hz would be better because I’ll enjoy the best of both worlds, a better response from 100-200hz from mains + better response below 100hz from subs( I focus on equalising subs from 10-100hz)

So this is subjective, you need to work out what’s best for u. The steps above is one method, looking for the best option to blend mains with centre...

Next we need to look at.....


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 22, 2019, 08:19
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/1b8b94d524265b63155f345936a7918f.jpg)

Let’s look at response when the ports are plugged in vs no plugs

You can see from above there is some nice bass added when the ports are unplugged. Does it matter ? No, because the region below 100hz is managed by the subs, so no benefits here.

Let’s look at the spectrogram

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/d38043c45eaabf49b10127ce0690260a.jpg)

The above is when the ports are unplugged where you have more “free” bass from the ports. Look at the nasty standing waves circled in red above . Though below 100hz will not matter at this stage since I’ll be using 100hz xo and subs take over below this region.

Then look at this when the ports are plugged, sealing it

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/c6030d9703584fe40b2e3e32ae4f9d08.jpg)

The standing wave at 160hz still there but the rest of the frequencies are better , 200hz ++ and 300hz ++ standing waves no longer there

Conclusion, plugged the ports for my case and move the speakers forward, again this speakers not meant to boundary load

Let the mains focus above 100hz for better dynamics

The above is how I did it at my place, at your home it will be different. This is something nobody can answer. You need to measure yourself and find the best solution


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on March 22, 2019, 08:34
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/81a1fcb049dbde55251dd26679c88ba6.jpg)

Next up I look at the energy time curve to kill off all first reflection points from the centre speaker

Notice that the above will show u a spike in green at about 4ms. This first reflection is from my leather sofa headrest (in green) to the microphone.

Once I put a pillow, re-measure, u can see the spikes are brought down, (in gold) . So the reflective leather headrest is the cause for this spike . Having said that, for HT I prefer to have it because it provides tactile response from Low frequency to head level.

If you are into music, this is a no no. Some will use a towel or small blanket etc to cover this headrest area. Perfectly alright,enjoy the tactile + solve the first reflections off sofa headrest

In general, the above shows dbfs below -20 and all the spikes are within this range, some even better at -30, reasonably even and good.

Very happy with the centre channel now, left right TOP bottom reflections all killed off

Don’t under estimate all these minor adjustments and tweaking. They are time consuming, but set once and forget and The overall experience is tremendous when you are able to identify and pin point the problems and solve it in your room.

The same process is to be repeated for mains , LCR is what matters most for HT

Ideally I would have my mains slightly forward, centre slightly at the back to form an arc. Then the image will be very good


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 12:53
Here is the final nail in the coffin, look at how I timed aligned the 4 subs below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190406/b0f5dd3e78b08601de64cdd77c7fd623.jpg)

The first pair of subs showing impulse rise at the first 5ms, second pair same timing perfect 5ms, and combined impulse both hitting exactly in the first 5ms

What this means is the transient Attack from the subs are precise, fast and accurate. One signal in for bass and energy from all 4 subs hit the Same time at MLP, this is the type of class I’m referring to...

Notice also once all the subs are time aligned, the phase response matches up as well

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190406/1b8b9674aa4157544babef3f2f2e7314.jpg)

The line in black shows both pairs of subs phased aligned

From the above exercise I can conclude that a time aligned subs should always result in a properly phased aligned situation. HOWEVER... a phased aligned sub need not necessarily mean its time aligned

They can seem to be in phase, in 720 degrees , 1080 degrees, but the timing of the arrival of the impulse is one cycle late. This situation will muddy the bass. It also signifies that looking at the amplitude response alone is not enough

So amplitude response, decay rates, impulse...

TIMING IS THE KEY


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 19:13
Fully dialed in the subs after 3 months testing and listening.Finally happy with the performance of the entire setup. This is the end of my journey for sound integration optimisation for Dolby Atmos

I’ll be be happy to host anyone keen to attend the demo, next Sunday 14th April.

1st session 2pm - 3.30pm (2 slots)
2nd session 3.30pm - 5pm (2 slots)

PM me if you are keen to have a listen. In a Living Room HDB, this Demo will feature the following which is the gear being used at the moment

1. LG C7 OLED 65” display. I’ll play some Tekno3d HDR-x material so you will have an idea of how good the picture quality is.
2. Lyngdorf MP-50 processor with room perfect EQ using divini power cord.Will share my experience with this and answer any questions you have
3. Speakers in use are the Monitor audio GX series, apex for heights and backs, CT180 for ceiling (8 channel Atmos )
4. Stacked pair seatons F18, 18” subwoofers
5. Oppo 205 playing the source files, connected using divini power cord
6. plixir Elite 3000 provides the clean power supply for the entire set up
7. PSI active Bass trap for specific decay handling , MOAB bass traps, 80% BAD panels flanking Atmos and my fav of all time SMT diffusors
8. Amplifier emotiva xpa-1 dual monoblocks, Apollon hypex NCore 8 channels for Atmos, ati525 power centre and surrounds. ( a bit of a rojak amplifiers but ok)

I’ll host another session again in May19
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: BadEnglish on April 06, 2019, 19:52
Fully dialed in the subs after 3 months testing and listening.Finally happy with the performance of the entire setup. This is the end of my journey for sound integration optimisation for Dolby Atmos

I’ll be be happy to host anyone keen to attend the demo, next Sunday 13th April.

1st session 2pm - 3.30pm (2 slots)
2nd session 3.30pm - 5pm (2 slots)

PM me if you are keen to have a listen. In a Living Room HDB, this Demo will feature the following which is the gear being used at the moment

1. LG C7 OLED 65” display. I’ll play some Tekno3d HDR-x material so you will have an idea of how good the picture quality is.
2. Lyngdorf MP-50 processor with room perfect EQ using divini power cord.Will share my experience with this and answer any questions you have
3. Speakers in use are the Monitor audio GX series, apex for heights and backs, CT180 for ceiling (8 channel Atmos )
4. Stacked pair seatons F18, 18” subwoofers
5. Oppo 205 playing the source files, connected using divini power cord
6. plixir Elite 3000 provides the clean power supply for the entire set up
7. PSI active Bass trap for specific decay handling , MOAB bass traps, 80% BAD panels flanking Atmos and my fav of all time SMT diffusors
8. Amplifier emotiva xpa-1 dual monoblocks, Apollon hypex NCore 8 channels for Atmos, ati525 power centre and surrounds. ( a bit of a rojak amplifiers but ok)

I’ll host another session again in May19


Very good to hear that.

How is Dolby Atmos's helicopter is flying in circle eighth your 8 tops ?
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 20:02

Very good to hear that.

How is Dolby Atmos's helicopter is flying in circle eighth your 8 tops ?


Yea Dolby Atmos helicopter clip is circulating , with bass... can feel the movement left back right front

Nice !


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: BadEnglish on April 06, 2019, 20:10

Yea Dolby Atmos helicopter clip is circulating , with bass... can feel the movement left back right front

Nice !


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Time to rock !
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 20:20
Time to rock !

Very different now from the last time u heard it , acoustics played a huge role too
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: BadEnglish on April 06, 2019, 20:32
Very different now from the last time u heard it , acoustics played a huge role too

Great !
Post some photos lar
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on April 06, 2019, 21:41
Roni, glad to know that you have finally found your audio nirvana. Good job.


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 22:39
Roni, glad to know that you have finally found your audio nirvana. Good job.


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Finally ahh.... after all the tinkering, tweaking, experiments, testing etc , wonderful journey ! So much experience gained in the process . I’m sure there is more to come, but for now sit back and relax, one final piece is the PJ with 150” to complete it.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: sdds on April 06, 2019, 22:48
Congra bro and start to enjoy the fruits . ;D
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 22:50
Congra bro and start to enjoy the fruits . ;D

Yea !! Haven’t had the time to visit earth sound, soon soon!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: kennyluck2000 on April 06, 2019, 22:56
Finally ahh.... after all the tinkering, tweaking, experiments, testing etc , wonderful journey ! So much experience gained in the process . I’m sure there is more to come, but for now sit back and relax, one final piece is the PJ with 150” to complete it.

👍 nice to have big 150" screen
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 23:01
Confirmed for Sunday 14th April demo

1st session 2-3.30
A) Kennyluck
B) Rock123

2nd session 3.30-5pm
A) Winthur
B) Den9893


See you guys soon ! Feel free to comment, good bad anything, no problem at all, open minded no hard feelings, just shoot ! Hehe
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on April 06, 2019, 23:12
Damn wish I could have made it but that day got too much on with F1 China race (Mrs wont want to watch it without me) and guests to watch too, but this processor is high on my list of contenders to upgrade to Atmos capability
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 06, 2019, 23:15
Damn wish I could have made it but that day go too much on with F1 China race (Mrs wont want to watch it without me) but this processor is high on my list of contenders to upgrade to Atmos capability

Next round in may19 no worries, djackblackfm has confirmed. I’m only free in Sunday’s. Weekdays will be tough with kids classes and Badminton etc

Good stuff, gotta hear it yourself to believe
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: BadEnglish on April 06, 2019, 23:27
Next round in may19 no worries, djackblackfm has confirmed. I’m only free in Sunday’s. Weekdays will be tough with kids classes and Badminton etc

Good stuff, gotta hear it yourself to believe

For the benefit of others, how many folds your system has been improved compare with before renovation and new processor, and how much does it cost.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ralfale on April 07, 2019, 10:39
Finally ...! Time to fully enjoy the fruits of your labour ;)
This will be the demo hall of xp members for a long long time
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: kennyluck2000 on April 14, 2019, 17:05
Thanks Bryan for your invitation.
This was my 2nd trip visiting Byran place.
1st visit propose was to audit the Active Bass trap.
During that time room was not fully treated with acoustic panel and diffuser.
This time my 2nd visit with all the acoustic treatment in places surround sound become so immersive, clear and detail.... it is definitely worth every penny spend....
Once room done it right everything sound so good... 8) 8) 8)
Watching movie in this room has so much enjoyments.. :-*
This is a idea room to showcase to our forum members how a room should be done properly if you want to have good sound produce from your system  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 14, 2019, 17:50
Glad you enjoyed Kenny ! It’s always nice to exchange views and learn from each other. Glad u liked the 18” midbass. That’s how I like it too. And moved away from 12” subs. No matter how the 18” is in a different league. Today winwin got the experience of goosebumps , haha

And another experience for u guys on the Tekno3d, the best source material around for HDR 4K

Glad everyone enjoyed the session, next session will be in May19. Will advise again the date
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: rock123 on April 14, 2019, 19:23
Thanks so much Bryan for inviting.
I must say your setup is AWESOME . :D

The living room area is really calm and quiet. ( I can just hear your air-con behind)
The first impression looks of the Stacked Seatons look huge to me. :)

A few demos impressed me.
A quiet place really showcase the details and that " clock" ticking .
Can felt the sweeping bass and also " wind " :)
Mid bass is solid, hit immediate hard.

Timing sia.
I guess the diffusors and the room treatment really bring it up to another level.
And the needed space is there, showing the imaging prowess of the surrounds.

No horse run bro.
Last but not least, i will go rewatch my avengers details. The Tekno3d outshining all the details

Enjoyable session! Enjoy HT!


Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 14, 2019, 19:37
Thanks so much Bryan for inviting.
I must say your setup is AWESOME . :D

The living room area is really calm and quiet. ( I can just hear your air-con behind)
The first impression looks of the Stacked Seatons look huge to me. :)

A few demos impressed me.
A quiet place really showcase the details and that " clock" ticking .
Can felt the sweeping bass and also " wind " :)
Mid bass is solid, hit immediate hard.

Timing sia.
I guess the diffusors and the room treatment really bring it up to another level.
And the needed space is there, showing the imaging prowess of the surrounds.

No horse run bro.
Last but not least, i will go rewatch my avengers details. The Tekno3d outshining all the details

Enjoyable session! Enjoy HT!

Glad u enjoyed !
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Den9893 on April 15, 2019, 08:39
Thanks Bro Roni for the invitation to visit his home theatre.

The moment we walked into Bro Roni's home, we can recognized that this is a heavily 'accoustically' treated area. The feel and RT is like a hall in a theatre or the like. The bass traps, absorption panels and diffusers were positioned strategically for a purpose. The noise floor is also at a very low level. When the sound system is muted, you only hear the air-conditioner.

Bro Roni took his time to demonstrate the various clips he had prepared to showcase his Home Theatre ie Dolby Atmos Surround, mid to low bass sweep, Teckno 3D pictures' quality & details and etc. The overall experience is first class and his set up is excellent. Like what Bro Kenny mentioned in earlier post, this is the bench mark for Home Theatre. We did discussed briefly about REW, Lyngdorf Sound Processor, Seaton Subs and other hardwares.

Bro Roni is a passionate & knowledgeable enthusiast who is willing to share what he learns in this journey here...kudos for a job well done! ;D

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 15, 2019, 08:49
Thanks Bro Roni for the invitation to visit his home theatre.

The moment we walked into Bro Roni's home, we can recognized that this is a heavily 'accoustically' treated area. The feel and RT is like a hall in a theatre or the like. The bass traps, absorption panels and diffusers were positioned strategically for a purpose. The noise floor is also at a very low level. When the sound system is muted, you only hear the air-conditioner.

Bro Roni took his time to demonstrate the various clips he had prepared to showcase his Home Theatre ie Dolby Atmos Surround, mid to low bass sweep, Teckno 3D pictures' quality & details and etc. The overall experience is first class and his set up is excellent. Like what Bro Kenny mentioned in earlier post, this is the bench mark for Home Theatre. We did discussed briefly about REW, Lyngdorf Sound Processor, Seaton Subs and other hardwares.

Bro Roni is a passionate & knowledgeable enthusiast who is willing to share what he learns in this journey here...kudos for a job well done! ;D

Nice meeting you bro, Glad everyone enjoyed the session, midbass, deepbass, moving bass, goosebumps bass... I personally enjoyed it too. Hope it will give you guys an idea on various set ups and what type of sound signature you like best. And also if it’s too loud or too soft etc

That’s how I like the set up, tune it without disturbing neighbours but still feel the pressure and every single detail. The SMT wings diffusor is just too good

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 15, 2019, 08:57
I forgot to demo that Lycan machine gun shooting scene for  lowbass speed for rock123 and Kenny . That’s actually a good scene to test the speed for Low bass, how fast the 18” woofer copes.. missed out, but u guys got a good experience

You will notice how the lower midbass extends to deep bass there from the bullet scenes
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: winwinc81 on April 16, 2019, 16:04
Finally had the time to sit down and get down for this review 😊 and BIG THANK YOU for this invite. Super eye opener. now i feel so mediocre.  :P

Room
Heavily treated, low noise, slight ringing sound (could be my ear), can hear pin drop for sure. The only thing that you can hear will be the A/C. Panels were big and nice. Strategically placed to fend off any continues sound gaps. Don’t think my wife will allow for such hardcore treatment :P

SQ
Simply WOW. Noticed the placement of the subs on the top left corner and the gaps between the left and surround left speakers, potential sound gaps from the “pretty” long arc, surprisingly I did not notice the sound gaps…it pans continuously seamlessly and nicely. To me this is the most amazing part.

Surround heights for Atmos sound great. Maybe due to the height lower than usual, I thought it sounded a bit louder than usual. Having said that, it’s an 8 inch in ceiling after all. While the loudness of the atmos does not really concern me a lot, it definitely brings out the intended sound that the movie wants you to hear.

Floors speakers pans nicely no doubt about it. I strongly believe the diffusers got a big part to play. While I only sat on the MLP at later part of the demo session, im glad I was offered the GOLDEN seat after that. The sound pans and blend so well that it feels sensational!!! Ron, i dont mind the leaf demo got replayed a few more...and a few more more more more times lol.

The bass. While this is REALLY subjective and personal preference, I apologize in advance if I sound offended in anyway. I’m very used to ported subs, low rumbling and hard-hitting mid bass, hence it may not apply to Ron’s preference.

Firstly, I can feel the tingling sensation on my leg hair. The same sensation from what I experience at desray’s, just that it’s more, feels fantastic! I feel that this is something which it will be difficult to achieve in my room mode.

The rumbling, like I said its subjective to personal preference, I feel that the seaton can do a bit more to bring out more rumbling feel.

For the midbass, if can add a little more will be nicer... But this could be Ron’s preference, Again I trust that the seaton can do more for sure.

Now what I REALLY like about the bass is the cleanliness. It is fast for sure… and now I learnt what is call “fast” sub! Something I like VERY MUCH! Bro Ron, can we change sub for a week to test at my living hall? Lol

The sound timing from all the speakers hits at the same MLP spot at the same time. Something really worth learning from Ron here…believe all AVR can do this? Maybe? Still need to take skills to master this! Really looking forward for the REW session

PQ
What seen can’t be unseen. All I can say is my eyes bleed… members, just go and make your eyes bleed too, TOTALLY WORTH IT.

Overall experience
Can really see a lot a lot A LOT of efforts being put in. Sound panning experience simply enchanting! Having someone so welcoming, friendly, willing to share and to teach is really nice. Hope that someday I can reach this kind of level of skills. Looking forward to learn more from you bro. Am I glad that we stay near each other? Don’t worry bro, I won’t stalk you muahahahaha
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 16, 2019, 18:34
Haha, Long story !! Don’t worry, feel free to shoot good or bad, need more bass or less bass. I won’t be offended. We can only improve ourselves through constructive debate, which is healthy.

Yes the type of midbass that you heard is not like the drum beat hard hitting type. And you r right, it is a preference built over time. Previously used to like those hard hitting type. I specifically tuned it to have the extension down Low, so you will notice that bullets being fired, will hit with midbass then extends down Low bass. It’s unlike the midbass modules or KK type of hard hitting midbass piercing the heart type. slightly different feel. And you have rightfully picked up, I prefer clean deep bass with extension, not the ported energy hard hitting with authority deep bass.

The entire set up, is geared towards superior timing above anything else . So every single detail is present . The moment the bass mask out the details, that is when I know it’s too hot, and I lower down. That’s my benchmark

Glad you enjoyed the session! Thanks for the disc and the kuih kuih too and to all members who visited. Glad everyone enjoyed ! Nice to meet you guys too

Next session will be in May after the BenQ demo, awaiting Alf to announce so no clash
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: winwinc81 on April 16, 2019, 19:12
Haha, Long story !! Don’t worry, feel free to shoot good or bad, need more bass or less bass. I won’t be offended. We can only improve ourselves through constructive debate, which is healthy.

Yes the type of midbass that you heard is not like the drum beat hard hitting type. And you r right, it is a preference built over time. Previously used to like those hard hitting type. I specifically tuned it to have the extension down Low, so you will notice that bullets being fired, will hit with midbass then extends down Low bass. It’s unlike the midbass modules or KK type of hard hitting midbass piercing the heart type. slightly different feel. And you have rightfully picked up, I prefer clean deep bass with extension, not the ported energy hard hitting with authority deep bass.

The entire set up, is geared towards superior timing above anything else . So every single detail is present . The moment the bass mask out the details, that is when I know it’s too hot, and I lower down. That’s my benchmark

Glad you enjoyed the session! Thanks for the disc and the kuih kuih too and to all members who visited. Glad everyone enjoyed ! Nice to meet you guys too

Next session will be in May after the BenQ demo, awaiting Alf to announce so no clash

yeah awesome! i do question myself at time, am i too deliberate in the bass in my setup, is my setup covering or masking off the details ... at times i want the details, thus changing a bass preset, at times i just wanna whack, feel all the power in some action movie, i just change another preset... just a personal thingy you see... same goes for demo... if you invite an action movie goer, change one preset that suit their taste, they will like your setup, same goes, if you invite someone who likes all the details and moderate to less bass, again they will like your setup, get another thumbs up!

however, a lot of times people take in too many opinions and too many comments, they take it so so hard that they forgotten how THEY themselves want the sound to be, they make themselves unhappy by making other people happy, getting many many thumbs up... in the end, making themselves unhappy and miserable by not getting OR knowing what they want anymore...

at the end of the day, you enjoy your own fruit of labor, share knowledge, making tweaks and achieving what benefits you. if it doesn't benefit you, just change back. what matters most if individual enjoyment, till something comes up again which worth all the hassle to re tweak the system. :D

cant thank you enough for the host. pls allow me to drop by again next time for therapy session. you definitely have eye bleeding PQ and breathtaking SQ.

please share your findings on disc vs compressed files too!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on April 16, 2019, 21:14
Finally had the time to sit down and get down for this review 😊 and BIG THANK YOU for this invite. Super eye opener. now i feel so mediocre.  :P

Room
Heavily treated, low noise, slight ringing sound (could be my ear), can hear pin drop for sure. The only thing that you can hear will be the A/C. Panels were big and nice. Strategically placed to fend off any continues sound gaps. Don’t think my wife will allow for such hardcore treatment :P

SQ
Simply WOW. Noticed the placement of the subs on the top left corner and the gaps between the left and surround left speakers, potential sound gaps from the “pretty” long arc, surprisingly I did not notice the sound gaps…it pans continuously seamlessly and nicely. To me this is the most amazing part.

Surround heights for Atmos sound great. Maybe due to the height lower than usual, I thought it sounded a bit louder than usual. Having said that, it’s an 8 inch in ceiling after all. While the loudness of the atmos does not really concern me a lot, it definitely brings out the intended sound that the movie wants you to hear.

Floors speakers pans nicely no doubt about it. I strongly believe the diffusers got a big part to play. While I only sat on the MLP at later part of the demo session, im glad I was offered the GOLDEN seat after that. The sound pans and blend so well that it feels sensational!!! Ron, i dont mind the leaf demo got replayed a few more...and a few more more more more times lol.

The bass. While this is REALLY subjective and personal preference, I apologize in advance if I sound offended in anyway. I’m very used to ported subs, low rumbling and hard-hitting mid bass, hence it may not apply to Ron’s preference.

Firstly, I can feel the tingling sensation on my leg hair. The same sensation from what I experience at desray’s, just that it’s more, feels fantastic! I feel that this is something which it will be difficult to achieve in my room mode.

The rumbling, like I said its subjective to personal preference, I feel that the seaton can do a bit more to bring out more rumbling feel.

For the midbass, if can add a little more will be nicer... But this could be Ron’s preference, Again I trust that the seaton can do more for sure.

Now what I REALLY like about the bass is the cleanliness. It is fast for sure… and now I learnt what is call “fast” sub! Something I like VERY MUCH! Bro Ron, can we change sub for a week to test at my living hall? Lol

The sound timing from all the speakers hits at the same MLP spot at the same time. Something really worth learning from Ron here…believe all AVR can do this? Maybe? Still need to take skills to master this! Really looking forward for the REW session

PQ
What seen can’t be unseen. All I can say is my eyes bleed… members, just go and make your eyes bleed too, TOTALLY WORTH IT.

Overall experience
Can really see a lot a lot A LOT of efforts being put in. Sound panning experience simply enchanting! Having someone so welcoming, friendly, willing to share and to teach is really nice. Hope that someday I can reach this kind of level of skills. Looking forward to learn more from you bro. Am I glad that we stay near each other? Don’t worry bro, I won’t stalk you muahahahaha


I really give my hats to you for giving such a detailed analysis of what you experience each time you visited a member's place for a demo session. I really hope to see more members open up to give comments...Don't be afraid of giving comments...good or bad, it doesn't really matter. AFAIK, those who cannot take constructive criticisms, pls do everyone a favor by not inviting member to your house for any form of demo.

After reading such a "vivid" experience, I can feel almost feel that I have "heard" Roni's fantastic setup...and yes, it is definitely a labor of love that Roni has had put in over the last few weeks. Good job Roni!

BTW before I forget, it is good to have a low noise floor...but make sure don't be "too dead-silent" until "ringing of the ear" type which can be rather uncomfortable for normal days. Hard to imagine how your family members can take it.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 16, 2019, 21:41
It’s nice really with the improved noise floor, it averages 30db, I find that I don’t have to shout at my kids all the time, like come for your bites and meal. We can speak softly and everyone can hear each other clearly. Speech intelligibility improved leaps and bounds. Every pronunciation of words is crystal clear, especially with kids and they pick up very fast. When the tone is gentle, the response is better 😉

Even during documentary and sometimes music, my kids can memorise the whole lyrics from the songs. Really good.

A good room with Low noise floor  makes a lot of difference to the whole experience, as you will notice, the noisiest in the chain is the 15 year old air conditioner! Waiting for it to kaput so I can change it to the Mitsubishi silent ones , then it’s done !!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: winwinc81 on April 16, 2019, 21:47
I really give my hats to you for giving such a detailed analysis of what you experience each time you visited a member's place for a demo session. I really hope to see more members open up to give comments...Don't be afraid of giving comments...good or bad, it doesn't really matter. AFAIK, those who cannot take constructive criticisms, pls do everyone a favor by not inviting member to your house for any form of demo.

After reading such a "vivid" experience, I can feel almost feel that I have "heard" Roni's fantastic setup...and yes, it is definitely a labor of love that Roni has had put in over the last few weeks. Good job Roni!

BTW before I forget, it is good to have a low noise floor...but make sure don't be "too dead-silent" until "ringing of the ear" type which can be rather uncomfortable for normal days. Hard to imagine how your family members can take it.
Thank you Desray. I love to go for demo at Bros place for as far as I have the time. I get the chance to see, and to learn from the bros. Not wanting to be a in the well too..

I have to say that the kind of setup Roni have, he can really save up the bucks from walking into Cinema. Better spend the time doing other things until a favorite show is available in physical disc... Watching it at the comfort of his very own home
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 16, 2019, 21:53
Yes I hope that our community will benefit when we share our knowledge, just like the rice sack thing. It sounded like a joke initially, rice sack on a subwoofer cabinet ?? But it really works! The science behind , its awesome ! It’s nice and we should share and help each other improve

Next demo will be on a Sunday as well, session will be 2-3.30 and 3.30-5pm, 3 slots reserved, pm me if you keen to experience the lyngdorf mp50, seatons and SMT with Atmos .no fixed date as of now , will be either 2nd or 3rd Sunday of the month
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on April 16, 2019, 22:26
Yes I hope that our community will benefit when we share our knowledge, just like the rice sack thing. It sounded like a joke initially, rice sack on a subwoofer cabinet ?? But it really works! The science behind , its awesome ! It’s nice and we should share and help each other improve

Next demo will be on a Sunday as well, session will be 2-3.30 and 3.30-5pm, 3 slots reserved, pm me if you keen to experience the lyngdorf mp50, seatons and SMT with Atmos .no fixed date as of now , will be either 2nd or 3rd Sunday of the month
Which slot not reserved? Hahahaha

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: rock123 on April 16, 2019, 22:30
Hi Guys,

Am happy to see passions bro willing to experience it, hear, feel and share write up ,
which most important is to enjoy your setup.

Back to room treatment, will anybody willing to spend $5k or even $10k on room treatment?
I am never a room treatment guy and will never spend this amount of $$ on that.
Well after visiting Roni Bryan's well done treatment with the SMT diffusors, PSI , traps , bad ceiling etc,
can really tell lot of efforts and time was spent and really satisfied experience and time to enjoy the fruits  ! :)
 
I know what i heard in Bryan's place and i never noticed those background details that I am missing before.
I have really gained the priceless knowledge of how immersive the details upon watching a movie which one can fully enjoy. 

When i move house in the next few years, i will definitely lock in a considerable budget for room treatment in the very first priority reno before even placing the carpet, speakers, subwoofers etc.

Last but not least, this forum community sharing definitely help bros to have have a feel and exposure of HT environment in your home with a relax ultimate enjoyment.

Enjoy HT Bros!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 16, 2019, 22:58
Next slot for May reserved for 4 members

1. Dhblackfm
2. Wizardofoz
3. LamInIn
4. Redragon118

Will be available if any member pulls out. Thereafter next session will be June Sunday again same timing , 4 slots. Dates to be confirmed.  PM me if anyone else keen.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on April 17, 2019, 18:50
Lyngdorf TDAI-2170

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NYMSH-SM3nk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 26, 2019, 18:26
Next slot for May reserved for 4 members

1. Dhblackfm
2. Wizardofoz
3. LamInIn
4. Redragon118

Will be available if any member pulls out. Thereafter next session will be June Sunday again same timing , 4 slots. Dates to be confirmed.  PM me if anyone else keen.


Hey guys, confirmed dates will be 19th May’19

1st session
2pm-3.30pm

2nd session
3.30-5.00pm

Let me know if you can make it. See ya !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on April 26, 2019, 18:30

Hey guys, confirmed dates will be 19th May’19

1st session
2pm-3.30pm

2nd session
3.30-5.00pm

Let me know if you can make it. See ya !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hello bro,

3.30pm to 5pm please.

Just incase I've many questions & overshot the timing.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on April 26, 2019, 18:33
Hello bro,

3.30pm to 5pm please.

Just incase I've many questions & overshot the timing.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Bro, no problem at all , it’s good to share your experience with the MP-50 as well. Look forward to seeing you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 07, 2019, 13:49
Hey Guys, Skate will join us as well....

1. Dhblackfm
2. Wizardofoz
3. LamInIn
4. Redragon118
5. Skate

So here is the order for the demo clip

1. Atmos Jungle clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/14rDOVaM5ipZ6jQe2jTBAU2qS0RK7VDm7/view?usp=sharing . Using this scene to test the overall "Room Feel"

2. Atmos Cube clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13RxXrTzTmsdh4NRvdKRdgxWe2w8Atg4_/view?usp=sharing . Using this to test the surrounds and overheads with Bass

3. Atmos Cute Girl clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LFEZnxyjjfUy2OVyTTSH83eZN3mMST8c/view?usp=sharing . Using this to test back speakers and panning of image

4. Atmos Leaves clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n5mANor8osV85ZwKbU49oWggqzk1rD_k/view?usp=sharing.  Using this to test the moving bass, "Phantom" width Channels once the bubble is complete

5. Atmos A Quiet Place --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pfwhAFgw3wzVKmwVdP5GG8orP5kdn0v-/view?usp=sharing . Testing for Dynamic range and Room Criterio

6. Max Payne --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VLPBVObttCb_kAUWH8TfviUKnWciqW8_/view?usp=sharing. Testing for Midbass with extension down to deep bass on bullet scenes for an 18'. Transient Attack

7. Real Steel --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnaBaOT9UBnAr7QZ_d05Ghj3Bs4E68No/view?usp=sharing . Twin Bots fighting scene. Testing for Goosebumps on the Seatons

8. Underworld Lycan --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SWLN12djwfkritF_RWfy1x6xPxTfuL2x/view?usp=sharing. Testing for Deep bass transient attack and speed of the bullets

9. Lone Survivor --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17adRI_2cX13DtIYVa5TLsX9eej1hg4ak/view?usp=sharing . Testing for Single Digit Infrasonic deep bass

10. Avengers Infinity War --> Testing for HDR-X video done by Tekno3D, tone mapped source file

Thats about it, we can have other test clips like rain, helicopter, 747 boeing, santeria.... This will give you an idea of what the Lyngdorf is capable and how the Noise floor in the room helps. Levels played at -15 above reference. (previously used to listen at -10, but with a lowered noise floor, -15db seems good)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: winwinc81 on May 07, 2019, 14:03
Hey Guys, Skate will join us as well....

1. Dhblackfm
2. Wizardofoz
3. LamInIn
4. Redragon118
5. Skate

So here is the order for the demo clip

1. Atmos Jungle clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/14rDOVaM5ipZ6jQe2jTBAU2qS0RK7VDm7/view?usp=sharing . Using this scene to test the overall "Room Feel"

2. Atmos Cube clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13RxXrTzTmsdh4NRvdKRdgxWe2w8Atg4_/view?usp=sharing . Using this to test the surrounds and overheads with Bass

3. Atmos Cute Girl clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LFEZnxyjjfUy2OVyTTSH83eZN3mMST8c/view?usp=sharing . Using this to test back speakers and panning of image

4. Atmos Leaves clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n5mANor8osV85ZwKbU49oWggqzk1rD_k/view?usp=sharing.  Using this to test the moving bass, "Phantom" width Channels once the bubble is complete

5. Atmos A Quiet Place --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pfwhAFgw3wzVKmwVdP5GG8orP5kdn0v-/view?usp=sharing . Testing for Dynamic range and Room Criterio

6. Max Payne --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VLPBVObttCb_kAUWH8TfviUKnWciqW8_/view?usp=sharing. Testing for Midbass with extension down to deep bass on bullet scenes for an 18'. Transient Attack

7. Real Steel --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnaBaOT9UBnAr7QZ_d05Ghj3Bs4E68No/view?usp=sharing . Twin Bots fighting scene. Testing for Goosebumps on the Seatons

8. Underworld Lycan --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SWLN12djwfkritF_RWfy1x6xPxTfuL2x/view?usp=sharing. Testing for Deep bass transient attack and speed of the bullets

9. Lone Survivor --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17adRI_2cX13DtIYVa5TLsX9eej1hg4ak/view?usp=sharing . Testing for Single Digit Infrasonic deep bass

10. Avengers Infinity War --> Testing for HDR-X video done by Tekno3D, tone mapped source file

Thats about it, we can have other test clips like rain, helicopter, 747 boeing, santeria.... This will give you an idea of what the Lyngdorf is capable and how the Noise floor in the room helps. Levels played at -15 above reference. (previously used to listen at -10, but with a lowered noise floor, -15db seems good)

awesome! thanks for the share!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on May 13, 2019, 10:59
Updates on the HDMI Boards

http://lyngdorf.com/news-hdmi-upgrade-program/

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on May 13, 2019, 12:33
Wonder if they are using the same silicon that Emotiva is using and having issues with on the RMC
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 15, 2019, 13:59
Hey guys, ill see you this sunday 19th May19. Heads-up, one of the Seaton Sub is having an air leak, i think the gasket or glue or something is out. Screws tightening didnt help, the flapping and leakage sound is back after mondays Massive Game of Thrones EP5 dragon Scenes. Dont think the replacement driver will reach Singapore in time for the change, but we will still go ahead with the demo and sharing session.

See you guys! Please dont buy anything, dont worry yea, just come and enjoy, relax and exchange views.

1st session
2pm-3.30pm

1. Wizardofoz
2. Redragon118
3. Mutant


2nd session
3.30-5.00pm

1. Djblackfm
2. LamInIn
3. Skate
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on May 20, 2019, 00:03
Thanks bro for a great session, was interesting to see and hear the things you had gone thru and ended up with to get your desired sound installation. Impressive sound bubble. Very interested to follow what’s coming next with the Benq setup.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on May 20, 2019, 07:32
Thanks Brother.  I enjoyed yesterday’s session.  It was awesome.  The great timing and decay of sound with the low floor noise indeed resulted in the amazing clarity of sound.  The punch of your 4 Seatons were exhilarating - my first experience of how deep bass and so called “Kancheongness” meant, despite you saying there is leakage in one of your Seatons.

All the tracks you played, except one, offered stunning feel sensation and are ear-opener, and now a reference for me.  You were honest to point out the one that need further tweaking  of your sound matrix map for four upper front speakers.

Appreciated your dedication to achieving the best sound sensation achievable from your Lyngdorf and your speakers, and and your willingness to share, and your great hospitality.

Thank you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on May 20, 2019, 07:59
Glad to hear everyone is enjoying the session :)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2019, 11:46
Was a pleasure meeting everyone yesterday , Glad all of u enjoyed the session. Great sharing session

I’ll hold the next demo when the seatons air leak issue has been fixed, together with the BenQ PJ with AT screen, looking forward to that one too
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on May 20, 2019, 12:12
Was a pleasure meeting everyone yesterday , Glad all of u enjoyed the session. Great sharing session

I’ll hold the next demo when the seatons air leak issue has been fixed, together with the BenQ PJ with AT screen, looking forward to that one too

Wow...you run too hot for your LFE until your Mark Seaton blown?!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2019, 12:27
Wow...you run too hot for your LFE until your Mark Seaton blown?!

Not really, more of glue or sealant not properly done, QC issue... I don’t run it very hot because of the 4, one of the areas I went for the 18” is because of the headroom, the subs are actually cruising at higher SPLs ...

That’s the disadvantage when buying and shipping overseas, no local support if there is issue... thank god mark is sending me the replacement driver and some sealant with instructions... so some learning DIY experience now... lol
Title: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on May 20, 2019, 12:28
Not really, more of glue or sealant not properly done, QC issue... I don’t run it very hot because of the 4, one of the areas I went for the 18” is because of the headroom, the subs are actually cruising at higher SPLs ...

That’s the disadvantage when buying and shipping overseas, no local support if there is issue... thank god mark is sending me the replacement driver and some sealant with instructions... so some learning DIY experience now... lol

Glad to hear that it can be easily fixed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2019, 12:30
Thanks bro for a great session, was interesting to see and hear the things you had gone thru and ended up with to get your desired sound installation. Impressive sound bubble. Very interested to follow what’s coming next with the Benq setup.

Pardon my kids, they seem to like u ! Haha, they have this bad habit simply touching people and saying things... lol , I told them wizard is coming, they were like is that the male wizard ? Not the witch ? I said yea. They asked, is he the scary wizard with the hat ? Lol then they saw u... and u know the history...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on May 20, 2019, 12:35
Pardon my kids, they seem to like u ! Haha, they have this bad habit simply touching people and saying things... lol , I told them wizard is coming, they were like is that the male wizard ? Not the witch ? I said yea. They asked, is he the scary wizard with the hat ? Lol then they saw u... and u know the history...

Ahem...I can attest to that...LoL
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2019, 12:36
Ahem...I can attest to that...LoL

Lol ... oops ☺️☺️
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on May 20, 2019, 12:37
Lol ... oops ☺️☺️

In a good way of course...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on May 20, 2019, 16:26
Kids have no agenda and tell it like they see it...the spell didn’t work but it’s the thought counts :D they are good kids...hope they had as fun a day out as we guests had in.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: mutant on May 20, 2019, 18:38
(This post will be posted twice; both at Ronildoq thread & Desray thread.)
I have the opportunity to audition both guys setups on the weekends. Managed to listen to the same demo clips on both setups. Here is a short summary for both powerhouse:-
Firstly, both Desray and Ronildoq are very great hosts! Feel at ease with their hospitality and friendliness.
Both are quite different in their setup. One in a living room using a tv (Ronildoq) using ceiling speakers for Atmos, the other in a dedicated room using a projector with reflective speakers for atmos (Desray).
For both places, I coincidence sat beside the most prime area.
Desray playing  mostly around -25dB below reference, while Ronildoq playing around -15dB below reference.
Both displays are superb! My 1st viewing of 4K with HDR10 combo. The blacks and whites levels very wide dynamic range, make it seems more realistic as compared to my older JVC HD projector. I could not find any issue; except personally I will go smaller abit than Desray 110 inch widescope for his room, and larger abit then Ronildoq 65 inch tv for his hall.
Both have very low floor noise, but Ronildoq hall have the sensation of you can have a conversation with another person with slightly more clearer hearing; feels strange but good ( I’m not talking about equipments).
Both sound systems details are very clear, enveloping seamlessly, immersive, the minute details, wide dynamic range, attack, speed, timbre, cohesion all spot on.  Abit hard who is better; coz from a 23 hour time gap apart, not easy. I believe both systems high-end room correction software really helps in this.
A very small nit-pic for both systems the airplane Atmos demo feels slightly confusing the direction of the airplane movement at the start; but sounds correctly when tapering off.
Maybe due to reflective speakers for Desray and  Ronildoq tweeters facing away and the matrix front height with front ceiling.
I am really blown away by their very high-end setup. And thanks again to Desray and Ronildoq for being such awesome hosts!
And thanks to Wilbur for the tips to me & Desray on the Zidoo player.
Nice meeting WizardOz again and also the rest at Ronildoq home.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 20, 2019, 18:56
Nice meeting u mutant and everyone else...

I told my kids, red dragon is also coming, they looked at me, what?? Dragon ? Then I said not that dragon... a Friend with nick name dragon, then they asked who else, I said mutant ! Then my boy went :” ninja turtle coming ?”

So funny...

Nonetheless , pleased to meet everyone yesterday
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: skate on May 20, 2019, 19:33
Ronildoq setup is really top notch. Never heard this setup before. The sound is very immersive and detail but you don feel the fatigue at all even though it is at -15db below reference. The 4 x f18 seaton subs are powerful. We can feel the pressure pressuring us and the mid bass hit is impactful and strong. For those going to setup their home theater should pay him a visit. It is poisonous and want to achieve his kind of level really not easy. Beware.😅
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on May 20, 2019, 21:14
The bass in the MLP from behind in some places I swear had my hair in the air...


As noted in other comments just general conversation in the room is clear and not strained to understand or listen, even for me with some moderate hearing loss.


It’s a typically furnished room, but also well treated with several treatment options for different tasks.


Bryan must have a very understanding wife...it remains to be seen how many of us will be lucky enough to take the family’s living area and bring it such a great level of AV experience.
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on May 20, 2019, 22:00
A great demo that I've enjoyed myself yesterday. Even thou I had a 1 to 1 session with ronildoq when everybody left  ;D Sorry to drag your time a bit longer. But definitely, I will come back again to your demo once your subs are fixed & projector is done. ;)
It fun & interesting meeting other members to come out for demo & chit chat. Once again hello & blessed to all that I've met at ronildoq place.

Let me slowly breakdown to everyone my favorites/top picks during the demo.

Mostly -15 MV on every demo unless too heavy bass probably is -23 MV. You won't face anything irritation in your ears & stuff. The noise floor is so low & damn quiet. I really admired his new ceiling. Even thou it is low but is still acceptable. The amazing picture quality on some of the demo shown(eg: clarity of the fire, shining boots & dark wall details).

Demo 1
(https://i.imgur.com/AE32oN9.jpg)

Panning of the speakers in a bubble kind of feeling which leaves nothing out. Every speaker has its contribution to sound. The most important of it was the imaginary wide speakers, where the leaf just keeps going & there is no gap of missing sound of the leaf.

Demo 2
(https://i.imgur.com/VuGZBmq.jpg)

Even though how the 2x seaton subs are having air leaks.(you sure know they are badboy bass) you can hear the port chuffing kind of noise in the subs due to the air leak but everything is happening so fast that you can't really really hear it unless you know what kind of sound. I really have to give it to ronildoq for this. Even thou his subs are having problems, he still turns it on & let the guests in his place to listen/ feel to it. Really appreciate you.

This clip, the bass is so strong where you are able to listen onto the rounds going out from the gun so fast that the bass follows thru with it. Have to listen 3 times to understand from this scene what's the intention or the bass do you need to get.

Demo 3
(https://i.imgur.com/Ujj83JS.jpg)

Punches of the robot are not slow but fast & massive. I could feel my leg hairs moving.

Demo 4
(https://i.imgur.com/MiNBVvg.png)

As the quote says "If they hear you, They hunt you". Listen to this with really low noise floor you can literally hear even the quietest effects to your ears. The scene where the clock ticking with the background really quiet during the scene. It really WOW me. The main focus was on the clock. Anway I'm already hunted with the quiet noise floor to bring out the details of it.

Demo 5
(https://i.imgur.com/Mw1qHyP.jpg)

Has anyone felt how Mike Tyson punch would be? 18" Subs giving the punch of a blow. A short demo scene of punch can really blow you out. 18" is never a slow slouch for the 4x 18".
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on May 25, 2019, 22:40
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lyngdorf-mp-50-long-term-review.2212529/

For those wanna try out the voicing & see whether it helps you or not. Never try never know  ;D
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 26, 2019, 12:28
Glad you guys all enjoyed, next up projector with screen and size that matters ! Can’t wait for that one

You will also notice that I use a single target curve, be it music or movies, nothing to fiddle, one target curve to rule them all for the right balance... only difference is preference for loudness, some prefer -10, -5, -15 , -20... also worth noting that some movies are much louder, just need to lower down the volumes, but target curve aka voicing remains .....

Occasionally for 2 channel stereo listening using Spotify, it will just switch to music mode automatically and it defaults to music target when it’s in network mode, u can set that preference as well

Or game Xbox mode, satellites tv mode I have it in DTSX neural mode, I prefer the clarity from dtsx when when it comes to watching news on channel news Asia or TV programmes
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on May 31, 2019, 19:18
Hey Guys, Skate will join us as well....

1. Dhblackfm
2. Wizardofoz
3. LamInIn
4. Redragon118
5. Skate

So here is the order for the demo clip

1. Atmos Jungle clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/14rDOVaM5ipZ6jQe2jTBAU2qS0RK7VDm7/view?usp=sharing . Using this scene to test the overall "Room Feel"

2. Atmos Cube clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/13RxXrTzTmsdh4NRvdKRdgxWe2w8Atg4_/view?usp=sharing . Using this to test the surrounds and overheads with Bass

3. Atmos Cute Girl clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LFEZnxyjjfUy2OVyTTSH83eZN3mMST8c/view?usp=sharing . Using this to test back speakers and panning of image

4. Atmos Leaves clip --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n5mANor8osV85ZwKbU49oWggqzk1rD_k/view?usp=sharing.  Using this to test the moving bass, "Phantom" width Channels once the bubble is complete

5. Atmos A Quiet Place --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pfwhAFgw3wzVKmwVdP5GG8orP5kdn0v-/view?usp=sharing . Testing for Dynamic range and Room Criterio

6. Max Payne --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VLPBVObttCb_kAUWH8TfviUKnWciqW8_/view?usp=sharing. Testing for Midbass with extension down to deep bass on bullet scenes for an 18'. Transient Attack

7. Real Steel --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnaBaOT9UBnAr7QZ_d05Ghj3Bs4E68No/view?usp=sharing . Twin Bots fighting scene. Testing for Goosebumps on the Seatons

8. Underworld Lycan --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SWLN12djwfkritF_RWfy1x6xPxTfuL2x/view?usp=sharing. Testing for Deep bass transient attack and speed of the bullets

9. Lone Survivor --> https://drive.google.com/file/d/17adRI_2cX13DtIYVa5TLsX9eej1hg4ak/view?usp=sharing . Testing for Single Digit Infrasonic deep bass

10. Avengers Infinity War --> Testing for HDR-X video done by Tekno3D, tone mapped source file

Thats about it, we can have other test clips like rain, helicopter, 747 boeing, santeria.... This will give you an idea of what the Lyngdorf is capable and how the Noise floor in the room helps. Levels played at -15 above reference. (previously used to listen at -10, but with a lowered noise floor, -15db seems good)

Understand some tried to DL but couldnt, sorry, i forgot to remove the settings, tweaked to allow the DL to go through, paiseh...

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2019, 11:54
On big thank you to bro synthesis who popped by today to help me on the seatons , turns out both the stacked subs on TOP had air leak! It was a simple fix

It turned out that the air was escaping through the footers when we unscrewed and it and stacked on the bottom sub

We have now fixed the footers back on the TOP sub and air leak is gone !!

What a fix! All good again now !

Next up will be shipping in 4x 10” seas woofer L26ROY to work as auxiliary sub for stereo bass, XO 500hz ! As boundary woofer

The seatons will be relegated to handle purely just LFE up to 90hz

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/d3051cf7795a84f9162c9f9defee8e67.jpg)

So here is what the lyngdorf does, something I wanna experiment and try out


The LS Boundary Woofer’s frequency response when driven by the Steinway Lyngdorf processor and amplifiers shows good low-frequency extension, but an unusual “shelving” effect from about 100 to 235 Hz; I assume this curve is chosen in order to deliver substantial bass output while also delivering enough high-frequency response to make the 300-Hz crossover.

Speaking of the high crossover point (which in most good home theater systems would be set at 80 Hz), Lyngdorf provided an interesting technical explanation of why it didn’t result in bloated voices as it normally would. He said the sound quality resulted from excellent impulse response — the woofers’ ability to produce high output immediately yet also stop producing output the moment the signal ends. “If you don’t have good impulse response, you can easily hear woofer placement because the woofer keeps playing after the music stops,” he said.

He noted that the corner placement of the woofers is essential for good impulse response. “Corner placement delivers a unified wavefront coming from the corner, rather than the more chaotic result you’d get with the woofer placed elsewhere,” he said. “Think of when you make a splash in the corner of a pool. The waves go out uniformly from the corner.”

Based on the above, I’m now trying this new approach boundary woofer “ BASS IMAGING “

If it doesn’t work as intended, it will be downgraded to handle midbass only 50-150hz

But I’m confident it will work, will report my findings soon again , probably July once the work for PJ is complete


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: winwinc81 on June 01, 2019, 11:57
On big thank you to bro synthesis who popped by today to help me on the seatons , turns out both the stacked subs on TOP had air leak! It was a simple fix

It turned out that the air was escaping through the footers when we unscrewed and it and stacked on the bottom sub

We have now fixed the footers back on the TOP sub and air leak is gone !!

What a fix! All good again now !

Next up will be shipping in 4x 10” seas woofer L26ROY to work as auxiliary sub for stereo bass, XO 500hz ! As boundary woofer

The seatons will be relegated to handle purely just LFE up to 90hz

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/d3051cf7795a84f9162c9f9defee8e67.jpg)

So here is what the lyngdorf does, something I wanna experiment and try out


The LS Boundary Woofer’s frequency response when driven by the Steinway Lyngdorf processor and amplifiers shows good low-frequency extension, but an unusual “shelving” effect from about 100 to 235 Hz; I assume this curve is chosen in order to deliver substantial bass output while also delivering enough high-frequency response to make the 300-Hz crossover.

Speaking of the high crossover point (which in most good home theater systems would be set at 80 Hz), Lyngdorf provided an interesting technical explanation of why it didn’t result in bloated voices as it normally would. He said the sound quality resulted from excellent impulse response — the woofers’ ability to produce high output immediately yet also stop producing output the moment the signal ends. “If you don’t have good impulse response, you can easily hear woofer placement because the woofer keeps playing after the music stops,” he said.

He noted that the corner placement of the woofers is essential for good impulse response. “Corner placement delivers a unified wavefront coming from the corner, rather than the more chaotic result you’d get with the woofer placed elsewhere,” he said. “Think of when you make a splash in the corner of a pool. The waves go out uniformly from the corner.”

Based on the above, I’m now trying this new approach boundary woofer “ BASS IMAGING “

If it doesn’t work as intended, it will be downgraded to handle midbass only 50-150hz

But I’m confident it will work, will report my findings soon again , probably July once the work for PJ is complete


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Awesome findings and glad everything is fixed! I would like to go again soon bro
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: wizardofoz on June 01, 2019, 12:02
Can look for jerry at falcon acoustics Uk for the seas units. His prices very good - use the same drivers in my Linkwitz lab lx521’s
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2019, 12:03
Yes soon! Very addictive!

This time will be something different , 135” screen, centre speakers behind AT screen flanked by SMT left right TOP bottom, front wall acting as bass trap, a pair of stacked 10” woofer L26ROY for left right stereo bass vide auxiliary channels (according to Lyngdorf engineer can’t localise if left and right woofer is present), seatons purely for LFE, air leak is also fixed !

Can’t wait ....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on June 01, 2019, 12:07
Can look for jerry at falcon acoustics Uk for the seas units. His prices very good - use the same drivers in my Linkwitz lab lx521’s


Yes yes it’s jerry ! I spoke to him yesterday, they are now on it’s way straight to bro synthesis’s house for the diy, going with this configuration instead of dual opposed design

I think the seas makes some fine and clean sounding woofers, genesis uses them, this model has quite Low inductance which is also very good for the transient response that I’m after

However specs is one thing, actual listening is another, let’s see how it goes !

Stay tuned again, this is something I need to find out myself, XO at 500hz !!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/6c7f1c979b9b9f2cf863fe131ae36d52.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on July 03, 2019, 14:36
I had to introduce the MiniDSP 2x4 as my 4 subwoofers does not have the delay knob in them. So I have to use MiniDSP 2x4 to have control of the delay in subs to time align them. After long using of AUX 1 & 2(left & right subs) I've decided to head back to just using the LFE. I'm using 2x JL audio E112 subs in the front & 2x Arendal sub3 subs in the back. Shall update again once I'm done with everything. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190703/1b0c9934c14f41c5514fae3e98f0103f.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on July 03, 2019, 18:57
Great choice there with the minidsp to time align the different subs, I would suggest you use all subs including your arendals in seal mode for better timing and transient response, you will benefit a great deal with the MP50 when it comes to RP blending your mains and speakers with subs

Look forward to your feedback

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Djblackfm on July 20, 2019, 00:48
Sorry for the late updates. I know I've yet to update everyone on my finding or my journey with MiniDSP with lyngdorf. Some brothers pm me to know my journey as well. No worries, a brother just shared this with me & this is how ronildoq described previously (hopefully I'm not wrong) on time align subs together. I've uploaded the file in my drive.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1-V80_o1N2ozOx_wDvBhSuKFos4b6i3BS

Thank you rock123 & sorry once again brothers for the late response.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: rock123 on July 20, 2019, 00:51
Sorry for the late updates. I know I've yet to update everyone on my finding or my journey with MiniDSP with lyngdorf. Some brothers pm me to know my journey as well. No worries, a brother just shared this with me & this is how ronildoq described previously (hopefully I'm not wrong) on time align subs together. I've uploaded the file in my drive.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1-V80_o1N2ozOx_wDvBhSuKFos4b6i3BS

Thank you rock123 & sorry once again brothers for the late response.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk



Good to share. Saw this guide avs @rythmik forum )
Good readup
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on July 21, 2019, 11:07
Yea very nice ! This is how I approach sub EQ and all other EQ now, I no longer look at frequency response, I look at timing. TIMING is the key essence and  holy grail for HT calibration . Get the timing right, all will fall into place, including the speakers, response etc

With other EQ programme, a lot of the group delays are set by the avr, with Lyngdorf u have to do it manually with mic and REW using acoustic timing reference. . This is the only thing we need to do on Lyngdorf before the room perfect EQ. Only after the above is done will you truly reap the full benefits of MP50
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on August 16, 2019, 08:07
From the man! Peter Lyngdorf

http://www.youtube.com/v/QUe2iDAPSy0&fs=1

Now these pics.... to ... morning drool

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/e649300a97e4ae466132d4704fdc926a.jpg)

You can enjoy a beautiful sunset, with some nice wine and music, in my dream....

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/720d5084d13727f518a7957cf1ccb154.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/398519879b29fe93ed088b3e974dd0be.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/f6d796e84d1203fd9aadac2c77b56ced.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190816/e592d95ca24787944d70e0e71855a527.jpg)

Lyngdorf = DROOL......




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on August 23, 2019, 08:38
Finally, part of the journey is the end.... never been happier. I’ve come a Long way. To date, this is the best EQ I’ve done in years, in a living room, it can’t get any better than this

Below are the numbers from my rew measurements , compression test completed, with all 8 subwoofers measured at reference -10mv on LFE

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190823/02ce54d5c77bdd3cf007798dbda4787b.jpg)

The above will tell you that at 9hz reference levels, SPLs are hitting 114.8db, no compression.

Damn that gush of energy at 9hz... no fatigue at all, midbass continues to pound at 100db, it also tells u the house curve I’m using, a rising curve of 15db down to the Lowest frequency at 9hz , from 100hz. the above is with 8 woofers, 4 from seas 10” pushing with speed and Attack at midbass, supported by the depth from seatons , very clean sounding , the numbers don’t lie, can be confirmed with measurements below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190823/85b162b48b02b9cc6bf77c9ea982743e.jpg)

Now look at the spectrogram above, at peak 115db 9hz, all bass decays from 35-100hz in less than 200ms, except for the one from 50-60, that’s not too bad, decays at less than 300ms. (Kitchen area, no choice) What this means is that frequencies in this range 50-60hz, stays on and linger slightly longer, the magic sauce here is the house curve and EQ methodology with timing, lower SPLs at 100hz. Remember this is 8 subwoofers placed at different locations in the living room. This is mighty impressive to me, and all 8 sums up with mains, surrounds and centre nicely. I didn’t bother verifying with Atmos speakers. I know it will sum after time alignment

The below numbers are the distortion figures at peak 115db, 13hz registering the highest distortion at 8.2%. It’s the second harmonics and the least audible and least offensive of distortions

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190823/e6319f49460ac62d0a03bab4a6d3034a.jpg)

The rest of the frequencies with distortions less than 1%, 9hz is about 4%, as can be seen from the graph. The one on Y axis is the %, the black line is the focus here for Total Harmonic Distortion. Maybe I can improve the resolution on the graph so folks can see better

This weekend, deep bass testing.... midbass passed ! Very very good, the balance is there now

Demo session starting 1st sept Sunday

2-5.30pm with close friends

1) NGSK
2) SDDS
3) Wechnivag
4) Ralfale
5) WIM

Wait for my friends to feedback, then, Next round demo again probably 3rd week sept, stay tuned. (It will be a Sunday 2-5pm) I’ll post the dates and reserve the slots for those who have requested and confirmed. Please bear with me, and don’t worry, I’m here to share

PS:// U will notice I didn’t bother posting frequencies response graph ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on August 26, 2019, 12:21
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/d4531ec7eac9261029ad90aee3563cca.jpg)

Testing completed, lone survivor gear up scene, a good continuous 30sec of SPLs at 132db 6hz .... 

Damn syok, feels as if u r in the chopper... intense... the average SPLs are good on this one

Oblivion sweep library scene is nice, u can see like a wave frequency moving from 100hz down to 20hz up down like a wave

The other one that I like below, real steel, twin boy scene, 122db at 10hz

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/048a318792b3c21b70df6b28544ab9f1.jpg)

Then tron legacy clip from reelwood demo

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/70cd083fefed980caf6c79617ca2106f.jpg)

120db at 10hz, very syok

The sound is very balanced, less fatigue, not disturbing

I’ve also used a high shelf on the system, I enjoyed this better

Here is the filter I’m using

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/21c565da1748723bfee8f79f874bd8a0.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190826/01eb55e813ba2faa0c38592c93cd37c2.jpg)


Stay tuned for next demo, I’ll list down, whoever can come, end sept19 Sunday. 3rd week of September can’t make it


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on August 26, 2019, 14:35
Here is the video side of things, I use RTA to look at the levels,, with the mic placed beside MLP, to look at what frequencies these clips are playing

See this on lone Survivor, 6hz 132db !! Massive , this is where I love the seatons f18!

http://www.youtube.com/v/91NTN6fe2Cc&fs=1

Next see the one on oblivion library scene, see the frequencies sweep from 100-20hz like a wave ... nice... most end at 20hz... that is why u see BEQ , bass Eq

http://www.youtube.com/v/OhJmSkKTTXw&fs=1

The other impressive one that I like is the twin bot fighting scene with 123db at 10hz, lotsa lower midbass punches

http://www.youtube.com/v/5uMEohL_vbk&fs=1

Tron legacy race scene is also very good, didn’t need any BEQ, quite well balanced if u look at the spectrum

http://www.youtube.com/v/P-zyC2l2Onk&fs=1

Last is the midbass scenes from true legend, if u watch the HK movies, they all focus on 30-70hz

http://www.youtube.com/v/oYz50fzYJac&fs=1

All the Hollywood movies focus mainly below 30hz, the above were all played at -15 on MV on the lyngdorf, have the high shelf from 8000hz made things sound clearer on a lot of stuf, for movies, this is my preferred curve , attenuating higher frequency and bumping up lower frequencies
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 01, 2019, 14:40
Unfortunately the session today had to be postponed as Daughter was suddenly infected with a gastro flu virus vomitting non stop.

Nonetheless, the demo will be done soon.

Yesterday I was testing BEQ (bass EQ) with the lyngdorf MP50, it can be done and you will not need a minidsp to sit in between.

I wanted to demo to the guys, the difference between a system that plays down to 20hz vs one that plays down to 6hz. The reasons for having an 18” subs that can dig down Low, and the Attack and speed it brings to the set up with a nicely time aligned system together with the quality of the entire system now.

Despite much longer wavelengths playing those single digits, the entire system feels “ extremely fast”, quite surprised. Again I will stress here, the key to all these is in the Time Domain.

Here is the difference between one with bass EQ and another without

Without bass EQ below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/61047a68ddd6e79e941630917f58f6e0.jpg)

With bass EQ below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/1fe5dbbf282a3373b6bb21806cbd2a6d.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/7ebb0ec1f1c49de29b403190d48082b7.jpg)

For the clip unbroken , it was amazing with so much details down lower frequencies. I’ve never heard unbroken sound that good before. Again the difference was felt , big difference with bass EQ on. You can see the average spectrum, very well balanced, good tonal balance as can be seen from 80hz down to 8hz. This is what sets this system apart from the rest, the ability to play clean deep bass down to the single digits without a Null and good time alignment. These graphs will tell you how good they are” not my good, not your good” , it’s measured using “ real time analysis” with REW

Next I tested another clip ready player one

Without bass EQ below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/20f0e5068dab3214bef1d9cf9db8bbf8.jpg)


With bass eq below :

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/30a78ac6d9bc0cba242ad3175f96db85.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/f1cef39cf788634c8918c9381827989c.jpg)

You can see a peak at 60hz, that scene is the beginning scene where the big truck like vehicle moves, the foley effects. You can also see that 20-30hz is very heavy with non bass EQ, feels too “meaty” (Kong and T. rex scene)

I prefer the one with bass EQ, u can see a much lowered 20-30hz , but better depth down 10-20hz, superb tonal balance

Boy oh boy, those single digit bass when hitting the body, brings about a “damn syok” feeling !

Despite the heavy SPLs, the separation, imaging and micro details are not masked out. There is no feeling of fatigue at all yet the bass is very very satisfying. A very nice decay on the upper frequencies, thanks to Room EQ Room Perfect, it’s just unbelievably good this room EQ.

This is the end game indeed.

I promised the guys this demo is something they will never forget...


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on September 01, 2019, 14:53
Unfortunately the session today had to be postponed as Daughter was suddenly infected with a gastro flu virus vomitting non stop.



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Hope she get well soon...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 01, 2019, 15:03
Hope she get well soon...

Thanks desray, yea they were disappointed as it was indoor playground day for them today. Now all have to rest and 💤 at home...nonetheless, system is fully dialed in, ready for demo

Will host some demo and chat sessions moving forward so hope it will be a mutually beneficial session, there is always something to learn, something new...
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: desray on September 01, 2019, 15:07
Thanks desray, yea they were disappointed as it was indoor playground day for them today. Now all have to rest and at home...nonetheless, system is fully dialed in, ready for demo

Will host some demo and chat sessions moving forward so hope it will be a mutually beneficial session, there is always something to learn, something new...

As always. Thanks for hosting the members here and always ever ready to share. Hope that your sharing sessions will benefit members who will in turn help to pass down what they learned to noobs who just joined the home theatre hobby. I will pay u another visit soon. Meanwhile, keep up the good work!!!



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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 01, 2019, 15:55
As always. Thanks for hosting the members here and always ever ready to share. Hope that your sharing sessions will benefit members who will in turn help to pass down what they learned to noobs who just joined the home theatre hobby. I will pay u another visit soon. Meanwhile, keep up the good work!!!



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Definitely, happy to host you ! Hope can learn a thing or two from you as well :) especially on the video side of things . I’ll pm you separately


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 01, 2019, 16:05
Here is how you can enter the BEQ filters into Lyngdorf MP-50

First download the lyngdorf app from iTunes Store , then link it up with you mobile phone. Once linked, you can control your MP50 with the HP. Choose to on room perfect , different target curves etc, all with your mobile phone.

You can also use your browser on your hp, will look like this below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/5ceb19c1d9a4499b3c550e0b8d361d33.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/283ecc5bb5661536e19f4b1552c8692d.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/3ba51e9e6ca443b9e21c2cac4ef5fcde.jpg)

Head down to voicing, then use horizontal view on HP, input the BEQ filters into MP50 voicings

Example for men in Black below

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190901/9a0670120acac317e368133c7ac53380.jpg)

Select filter, input under first filter, Low shelf Q 0.9 , gain 3.8, freq 10hz

Then 2 Low shelf filters -> With Q 1.1 , gain 4.6, 19hz
Parametric Eq ->40hz, Q 2, - 2.3 ( reduced meaty bass)
Parametric EQ-> 70hz Q=1, +0.6 gain

Master volume +1 from normal listening levels. If you are worried, play it at -15mv or -20mv, tons of headroom

Enjoy your movie after that. Much nicer tonal balance overall, very pleasant experience, tested and verified as can be seen above from the measurements


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 06, 2019, 09:56
Interview with peter lyngdorf on 9th sept 19, look at Time stamp 7:12

http://www.youtube.com/v/qFQwXDowjRI&fs=1

Exactly what I said in my post above on 23rd aug19. But he also didn’t mention what’s the focus and how it should be done , lol

PS:// U will notice I didn’t bother posting frequencies response graph ;)
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: Tiktokape on September 07, 2019, 21:17
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/showthread.php?t=3089172&amp=1


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Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 08, 2019, 09:48
Nice ! MP60!

Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 09, 2019, 12:09
Latest updates on MP60, it looks like the hdmi2.1 is not the full 48gbps 4K 120fps. But does support eARC, good for Netflix

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/f45ec282296e7b34ea291660cec643e1.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/a8b606c38dae7ca234467466307e14f7.jpg)


Updates for us existing mp50 users as well

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/a457dcd53a4375217d226bc520f6743f.jpg)

Not sure if there will be any trade in programmes,checking with distributor
Title: Re: Lyngdorf thread
Post by: ronildoq on October 23, 2019, 17:55
The new P300

http://www.youtube.com/v/M13s5lE0w9g&fs=1