XtremePlace Forum

AV Galaxy => Planet Home Theater => Topic started by: petetherock on July 01, 2014, 09:56

Title: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 01, 2014, 09:56
Suggested speaker positions from Dolby:
http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html
7.1.4:

http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html
5.1.2:
http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-2-setups.html
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Pismo Mac on July 01, 2014, 13:19
I am using these for rear surround in my 7.1 set up.

http://www.definitivetech.com/products/uiw-55

Have them in the ceiling.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wizardofoz on July 02, 2014, 00:08
I think Emotiva have a range of in ceiling speakers


https://emotiva.com/products/emotiva/speakers-0
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 02, 2014, 08:08
Thanks wiz, they are out of stock..
Bro pismo :
Are they mounted flush on the ceiling ?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wizardofoz on July 02, 2014, 10:35
car speakers are often a good cheap source too but often the grill colour is black and in a white ceiling might not be the best.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on July 02, 2014, 11:27
Atmos - need the ceiling speaker to fire down straight ?

There are those with Pivoting tweeter and some with angled woofer.
I even find one specific brand (SpeakerCraft AIM series) with pivoting woofer & tweeter (Not Cheap  >:()

http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-speakers/in-ceiling/aim

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 02, 2014, 12:06
Yeah, some are pretty expensive..
I guess the Def Techs are more affordable then..

Actually havin tilting tweeters might work well, so they can double up as side surrounds for conventional surrounds too at a stretch..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on July 02, 2014, 12:17
Take a look at this : Speakercraft Aim 7 Two In-Ceiling pivoting Speaker
http://www.amazon.com/Speakercraft-Aim-In-Ceiling-pivoting-Speaker/dp/B001TK3E44/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404273605&sr=8-1&keywords=speakercraft+aim

•Pivoting and Rotating 7" Resin Reinforced Fiberglass Cone Woofer
•Pivoting 1" Silk Dome Tweeter
•Timbre-Matched to All Two Series Speakers
•Front-Mounted Treble Equalization Switch
•U.S. Patent No. D419, 561 & 6,101,262
•Sensitivity: 90dB 1W/1m
•Power Handling: 125 Watts
•Impedance: 8 Ohms
•Frequency Response: 40Hz - 20kHz
•Diameter x Depth: 9 7/8" x 5 1/8" (251 mm x 130 mm)
•Cut-Out Diameter: 8 1/4" (210 mm)
(detail spec from http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-speakers/in-ceiling/aim?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=40)

US$360/pair (stated "Sold by Pro AV Dealer and Fulfilled by Amazon") - maybe can get free shipment to SGP.

Tempting ............. (look at the freq response numbers :o)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 02, 2014, 12:27
we have installed some of this , speakercraft also hv some.
http://www.qpdspeakers.com/motorized-speakers/
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 02, 2014, 12:33
Bro Tane:
If they are Not sold by Amazon, then I don't think they qualify.

Bro Peng
Do you sell them or alternatives?

Might as well support local :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: alf on July 02, 2014, 12:40
Yeah, some are pretty expensive..
I guess the Def Techs are more affordable then..

Actually havin tilting tweeters might work well, so they can double up as side surrounds for conventional surrounds too at a stretch..

Hi  I have ceiling speaker which come with ribbon ribbon tweeter that can tilt  .The grill and ring are white  .
I  have a pair on  demo  .  PM or sms to arrange  for audition. Hp 9765 0195
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 02, 2014, 12:47

Do you sell them or alternatives?


US 200 each for the look only . for ceiling speaker is better get those with enclose , or you will be making your whole ceiling as a very big speaker Box, can pan & till will be more easy for integration.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 02, 2014, 12:52
Bro
I want a small footprint one, as it has to fit between the downlights.
Is this ok or is your AG brand micros out of my budget?

Cheers
US 200 each for the look only . for ceiling speaker is better get those with enclose , or you will be making your whole ceiling as a very big speaker Box, can pan & till will be more easy for integration.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 02, 2014, 12:52
Hi  I have ceiling speaker which come with ribbon ribbon tweeter that can tilt  .The grill and ring are white  .
I  have a pair on  demo  .  PM or sms to arrange  for audition. Hp 9765 0195
Pm you thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 02, 2014, 13:02
Bro
I want a small footprint one, as it has to fit between the downlights.
Is this ok or is your AG brand micros out of my budget?

Cheers

The new AG se range design for this is already into a nos of home setup and 1 big commercial setup.
level 3 already hv few demo on this sine last yr when I bring back the processor.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: alf on July 02, 2014, 14:24
Pm you thanks

Hi Pete, have reply you  on the PM . To audition is the same placie in my service centre which you have came before .  Let  me know if you dont have the address .
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 02, 2014, 15:20
Hi Pete,

I am also using the Def Tech UIW55, they are flush with the ceiling.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Pismo Mac on July 03, 2014, 00:48
+1 Rayleh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: itsptw on July 03, 2014, 20:50
Most of our surround sound are 5.1 & 7.1 which places on ceiling in HDB.
Now with Atmos, we may redesign our speakers placement.

Our surround side and surround back have to move down from the ceiling or can we convert them to ceiling speakers as top sound without reposition them & tile the angle ?

Those HT in the living room may not have a side wall so may need to look for wireless speakers or transmitter to hide the ugly cable..

Onkyo  has come out with Dolby Atmos-Enabled Add-On Speaker Modules
(http://res.cloudinary.com/hrscywv4p/image/upload/c_limit,h_900,w_1200/qtf5mhmxshgmbuuldmje.jpg)
(http://res.cloudinary.com/hrscywv4p/image/upload/c_limit,h_900,w_1200/nn2kwewcy5gdtxeykufs.jpg)

Do we really want to buy Onkyo speakers does the speaker sound clarity satisfy you? Pls give comments... 
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on July 03, 2014, 21:28
There's a thread on it I believe. Perhaps you can input there instead.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=174199

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on July 03, 2014, 22:12
Any one seen any ceiling mounted speakers for Atmos? (not in-ceiling speakers)
Like these boxes in the demo pictures.
(http://www.clubbing9ine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/onkyo-dolby-atmos.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2014, 22:19
Any one seen any ceiling mounted speakers for Atmos? (not in-ceiling speakers)
Like these boxes in the demo pictures.
(http://www.clubbing9ine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/onkyo-dolby-atmos.jpg)

It's only a representation. You can use whichever speaker makes sense to you. I would suspect, satellite 2 ways like the KEF Eggs or B&W M speakers would work well
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: itsptw on July 03, 2014, 22:22
Yeah will write on the link thread. Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2014, 22:51
a. the Onkyo speakers are not your only choice - you can easily buy speakers from your favourite brand and manufacturer and install them in your ceiling.
b. the Onkyo merely provides a way to simulate ceiling/height speakers using reflections based on an approximation of most room ceiling heights/shape
c. it is not made by Onkyo IIRC - Onkyo merely licenced the design and put their own brand on it.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on July 03, 2014, 23:04
Yeah, I understand that any satellite will do but the shape of the representation does make sense. It looks neat and the mounting seems simple. Getting the current existing ones will require some sort of mounting or bracket.

Too bad I can't get the upfiring ones because of the tweeter on top of my 804, else it will be a lot easier and lesser cable management to handle.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 03, 2014, 23:13
Upfiring speakers are kind of like those soundbars which make use of reflections.. So no ceiling fans, and the ceiling needs to be regular shaped or at least flat...

I will explore adding some cables and running a side ceiling mount, and use my front height as the front ceiling.. stay tuned to this and a totally new HT project :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2014, 23:17
Yeah, I understand that any satellite will do but the shape of the representation does make sense. It looks neat and the mounting seems simple. Getting the current existing ones will require some sort of mounting or bracket.

Too bad I can't get the upfiring ones because of the tweeter on top of my 804, else it will be a lot easier and lesser cable management to handle.

It can work if the speakers are in-wall or in-ceiling.

You can place the Atmos speakers on stands or shelves next to the front speakers?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on July 03, 2014, 23:25
yeah.. waiting anxiously for some reviews later on for upfiring reflection vs direct from ceiling. Saw some decent-looking Dayton and JBL satellites speakers with mounts. No false ceiling so no in-ceiling types.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 03, 2014, 23:30
yeah.. waiting anxiously for some reviews later on for upfiring reflection vs direct from ceiling. Saw some decent-looking Dayton and JBL satellites speakers with mounts. No false ceiling so no in-ceiling types.

I'd look at the KEF Eggs.

They are really small but sound pretty damn good. The only issue is that the newer models don't have stands that allow you to swivel, I think - tho they can be screwed to the wall.

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on July 03, 2014, 23:46
I'd look at the KEF Eggs.

They are really small but sound pretty damn good. The only issue is that the newer models don't have stands that allow you to swivel, I think - tho they can be screwed to the wall.



 yeah, will keep note. But for ceiling effect speakers, do we need such good ones? Personally now I am only using some cheapo satellite for my FH and FW since they dun really have much 'actions' during a movie.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 04, 2014, 00:07
I guess it all depends on how much you are spending overall

I thought the new Eggs have dropped a fair bit in price. And I've always thought they sounded pretty impressive despite their size
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: askarmelayu on July 04, 2014, 00:29
yeah.. waiting anxiously for some reviews later on for upfiring reflection vs direct from ceiling. Saw some decent-looking Dayton and JBL satellites speakers with mounts. No false ceiling so no in-ceiling types.
no false ceiling? What about your ceiling speaker cables?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on July 04, 2014, 08:29
no false ceiling? What about your ceiling speaker cables?

no ceiling speakers for now. Only height, wides and surrounds on wall.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on July 04, 2014, 09:16
I guess it all depends on how much you are spending overall

I thought the new Eggs have dropped a fair bit in price. And I've always thought they sounded pretty impressive despite their size

Egg speakers cannot mount on ceiling.
Even on wall, it cannot be freely adjust to fire downwards (limited angle adjustment up & down).
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 04, 2014, 09:33
Egg speakers cannot mount on ceiling.
Even on wall, it cannot be freely adjust to fire downwards (limited angle adjustment up & down).
That's what I posted earlier.

Have you seen the new E305 stands? They seem to have slightly better degrees of articulation - tho I am not sure if it is enough.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on July 04, 2014, 09:39
are the eggs sold separately? always see them online in a set with subwoofer
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 04, 2014, 09:45
In the past, I believe you could. Not sure about the E305s
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 05, 2014, 15:27
Had my contractor come in for an initial recce, and Nic came along too... so we will be planning the laying of 13.2 speakers for my mum's new home, and retro-fitting my current setup soon..

We will see how things pan out in the next few months, then see where to place the speakers..

:)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 05, 2014, 15:36
Had my contractor come in for an initial recce, and Nic came along too... so we will be planning the laying of 13.2 speakers for my mum's new home, and retro-fitting my current setup soon..

We will see how things pan out in the next few months, then see where to place the speakers..

:)

That is good , perhaps you can come yp another HT/reno/planning/ thread ?
sorry, not able to drop by.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on July 06, 2014, 15:08
Just watched TF4 in a Dolby Atmos cinema theatre. The surround envelop and steering is awesome, esp the vertical or diagonal paradigm. Exciting to see how this is going to take off at home. :) brace
ourself for more upgrades!! keke ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ALTK on July 06, 2014, 16:08
Who knows after ceiling speakers...there maybe "In-floor" speakers to cater for sound from bottom ;D Dig some holes in the flooring to standby  :P ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 09, 2014, 08:04
That is good , perhaps you can come yp another HT/reno/planning/ thread ?
sorry, not able to drop by.

No worries

Things are still fluid, so when work starts and I know what to, I can post a thread...

Anyhow, there are so many uncertainties in the new Atmos capable amps, that it's hard to predict how things will work out.
It seems that the first generation aren't really object based.. and you can get 11 channel Atmos but not wides..

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 09, 2014, 08:26
No worries

Things are still fluid, so when work starts and I know what to, I can post a thread...

Anyhow, there are so many uncertainties in the new Atmos capable amps, that it's hard to predict how things will work out.
It seems that the first generation aren't really object based.. and you can get 11 channel Atmos but not wides..

In object based system is namely convention that all.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kzone on July 09, 2014, 09:07
It seems that the first generation aren't really object based.. and you can get 11 channel Atmos but not wides..

wat u mean? can share more bro?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 09, 2014, 09:55
There's lots of discussion over on AVS, so watch and see before jumping in.
wat u mean? can share more bro?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 09, 2014, 10:05
Right now as you can figure out from the Atmos discussions around the world, detailed info on how the format works, the horsepower needed, DSPs, and speaker placement is still scarce on the ground.
 
But it seems some of the first gen machines are cripppled.
 
Bro Des has a discussion on Atmos amp, so I won't want to override that here, cheers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kzone on July 10, 2014, 11:14
Thanks bro.. understand abit more now. Its still based on fixed speaker placements. That means, we still to follow the recommended speaker positions. In practise not much diff fm current discreet channels.

R u re-doing ur ceiling to accomodate the ceiling speakers? I'm about to start to look for ceiling works quotation for the living room area, mainly for the ceiling speakers but also including lightings. Pls post here or pm me if u have anyone to recommend. Thanks.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 10, 2014, 15:24
If anyone want to know how to isolate ceiling vibration  or reduce reflection ,can give us a pm/text ,as we have bought it some ceiling/wall panel and isolation device for home ceiling frame work.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: freddyhappy on July 11, 2014, 08:26
If anyone want to know how to isolate ceiling vibration  or reduce reflection ,can give us a pm/text ,as we have bought it some ceiling/wall panel and isolation device for home ceiling frame work.

Is it install inside the plaster ceiling or outside?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 11, 2014, 14:58
Is it install inside the plaster ceiling or outside?
during the frame work .
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: freddyhappy on July 11, 2014, 18:57
during the frame work .

Too late for me then.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on July 11, 2014, 19:59
Too late for me then.
nothing is too late , if the ceiling already there , first identfly the problem , frame work or control relfection ? then apply the needed step to reinforce the ceiling or adds ..........
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: francis wu on July 12, 2014, 14:47
Interesting! :)

Good, I have 4 of this in my store room now and these will be my Atmos speakers in the future ;D
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/franciswookimleong/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140712_142702_zpsi7llbcro.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 19, 2014, 00:35
An article on Atmos enabled speakers:

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/steerable-dolby-atmos-speaker-proposal



(http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/steerable-dolby-atmos-speaker-proposal/dolby_SpeakerPlacement_101.jpg/image)


Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 27, 2014, 19:48
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/steerable-dolby-atmos-speaker-proposal (http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/steerable-dolby-atmos-speaker-proposal)



Some ideas on speaker design and placement..



(http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/steerable-dolby-atmos-speaker-proposal/dolbyceiling.jpg/image_preview)



This still seems to be the most ideal, although it requires some carpentry or work to be done on the ceiling...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on July 27, 2014, 21:32
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/1606932_10152517050425149_707600972760910929_n.jpg)

This is what happen if we decide to do ceiling speakers... Yikes...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 27, 2014, 21:40
Might be too close.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 27, 2014, 22:28
IMO, there may be real interference from each speaker due to their proximity...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on July 27, 2014, 23:44
IMO, there may be real interference from each speaker due to their proximity...

also to listening position v the side wall reflections
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on July 28, 2014, 08:35
Here comes the question of speaker placement and the room mode. Will small room yield any benefit even if the use go for full dolby atmos setup with sat a 5.1.4 array vs a larger listening room.... How will the reflection and interaction of the sound waves between the two rooms react... For me,  if room too small,  dolby atmos will not work at its best simply because the speakers are located too near to each other to allow one to distinctly make up the object based panning sound whereas for a larger viewing space,  it will provide more space for the sound energy to dissipate and thus making it more wider and bigger.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on July 28, 2014, 17:10
Think for a small room, go for 5.1.2. 

LCR + Rear LR + 2 ceiling should be enough.

(http://res.cloudinary.com/hrscywv4p/image/upload/c_limit,h_900,w_1200/mmjxonj0vd9p89qsz7fo.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 28, 2014, 19:07
Suggested speaker positions from Dolby:
http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html
7.1.4:

http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html
5.1.2:
http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-2-setups.html
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 07, 2014, 08:40
My efforts to integrate the ceiling speakers into my existing false ceiling seem to have hit a snafu.. my contractor says it will be hard :(
Hope Nic finds a solution.
Right now, I am looking at the A'Dia AG speakers for both my place and mum's..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 10, 2014, 14:23
Some info from the HKG show:
http://www.feversound1.com/140809-atmos/ (http://www.feversound1.com/140809-atmos/)

The ceiling speakers are behind and in front of the main listening position...
I think to fit the ceiling speakers in the centre of the ceiling will be quite challenging for those who are looking to retrofit them in to current setups without some major hacking...

Not too WAF friendly I am afraid...

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/14674565120_661216c699_b.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 11, 2014, 23:33
More suggested speaker positions:

(http://www.avforums.com/attachments/493908/)



The traditional layout:

(http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/105869/)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 11, 2014, 23:59
(http://s23.postimg.org/4frj3qcuf/atmos_setup.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4frj3qcuf/)

guys, which way do you prefer? the green one is for atmos.
need suggestion, installing tomorrow.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 12, 2014, 09:40
Bro Wilber
When you use the term "which one" I assume you will be giving us choices to help your selection process?
I don't see the various choices?



Anyway for bros entering the Atmos world, I must first profess that I am also new at this.

So my personal advice is to build in some flexibility, or delay your building until more info is out.

The previous diagram I posted gives the suggested angle from front to back, but it doesn't say how far from the sides.

So I would prefer to see the first few amps, and the way the makers suggest speaker placement before I leap in.

Of course if you are in the process of renovation, then you may have to do it now. But if you add a banana wall socket, and allow some flexibility, you may be better off.

Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 12, 2014, 11:35
Oh, the picture disappear, let me fix it later.. anyway left side is typical cinema setup, right side is 45 degrees aiming at sweet spot.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 12, 2014, 11:42
The information right now is still vague. They're installing later.. time is running out for me
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 12, 2014, 18:35
alright, installation delayed... contractor mia.. that gives me more time to consider..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 12, 2014, 20:33
It's a brave new world, my own renovations begin soon, but I might bite the bullet...

That means cutting a track in the ceiling to allow the placement of the ceiling speakers more centrally, centering in a rectangle around the top of my listening position..

And for my mum's new place, that may warrant a total ceiling re-design in order to accommodate the new placements..

I think the old idea of placing them just above the side walls or in the cove lights is the wrong position...

It's an interesting year, as we make adjustments to traditional ideas of speaker placement that have dominated our HT rooms for at least 2 decades...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 12, 2014, 21:48
yes, redesign to accommodate would be best! your place compromise a bit for the speakers would be more ideally.

ya, placing on the side corner  is wrong definitely.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kzone on August 12, 2014, 22:21
wilber, what speakers are u using for ceiling ?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 12, 2014, 23:11
wilber, what speakers are u using for ceiling ?

JBL 8320
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 13, 2014, 10:04
This is a statement I got off AVS about speaker placement:
 
 

Quote
3rd white paper coming out that is intended as an installation guide with best practices for custom installers (and the rest of us) that Dolby intends to release at CEDIA.

Personally, I would hold off on mounting any speakers until I've at least perused that white paper. At that point, I would decide how closely I want to stick to their recommendations.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 13, 2014, 10:05
There was some kind of demo recently in USA, and the listeners seem to prefer the reflected sound off the ceiling versus ceiling speakers..
 
But if we use ceiling speakers, coaxial is preferred. That means a source like the AG speakers will be good.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 14, 2014, 22:26
http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dolby-atmos-home-demo/ (http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dolby-atmos-home-demo/)

Quote
....
Do I Need to Buy Special Atmos Speakers or Can I Keep My Current Speakers?
(http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Atmos-Enabled-Speaker.jpg) (http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Atmos-Enabled-Speaker.jpg)

If you plan to use the version of Atmos that fires sounds upwards from ground level to bounce off the ceiling, you will need specific Atmos-enabled speakers. You cannot simply take some old bookshelf speakers and aim them towards the ceiling, for example. The Atmos modules in the speakers need to shape the sound frequency so that it bounces correctly.
.....
If you plan to use only direct-firing speakers, with discrete speakers installed in the ceiling, you do not need special Atmos speakers. Your existing mains and surround speakers will work fine. You’ll just need more of them.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 14, 2014, 22:48
Useful for those planning Atmos ceiling speakers:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dolby-atmos-moves


Quote
Dolby representatives recommended a flat ceiling with a height of 8-14 feet for Atmos-enabled speakers. Cathedral ceilings may be incompatible with the reflected version of Atmos, though I’m sure they’d work in some situations. Dolby also recommends that the Atmos-enabled speakers be at least 3 feet from any listener. There was also the inevitable question on "acoustical ceilings."  The answer:  so-called popcorn ceilings should be fine (their acoustic properties are virtually nil), but other types of absorptive treatment on the ceiling would be a bad idea. If you use discrete ceiling speakers, however, neither cathedral ceilings nor acoustical ceiling treatments should be an issue—as long as the latter doesn't block the sound from the ceiling speakers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: alf on August 14, 2014, 23:44
Some info from the HKG show:
http://www.feversound1.com/140809-atmos/ (http://www.feversound1.com/140809-atmos/)

The ceiling speakers are behind and in front of the main listening position...
I think to fit the ceiling speakers in the centre of the ceiling will be quite challenging for those who are looking to retrofit them in to current setups without some major hacking...

Not too WAF friendly I am afraid...

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/14674565120_661216c699_b.jpg)

Base on the looks the ceiling height is hight , it is possible .

During the Hong Kong Hifi show in the hotel ball room same set up with rigging trusss in the room . Wah impressive kudos to Asia Theatre .
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wizardofoz on August 15, 2014, 14:47
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa (http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 15, 2014, 23:29
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa (http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa)

Well there is some truth in this, considering that many people are still using DVDs or even VCDs as a source, or just youtube movies..
And even 5.1 isn't as common as we think...
For the hobbyist, this is a salivating prospect, but we are in the minority...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 16, 2014, 00:10
A well written post with salient points on speaker position:


Quote
This bodes well for those with smaller rooms, as it seems that the full Atmos experience can be gained even from a relatively small reflective area. Those with ceiling treatments may yet be able to use Atmos-enabled speakers or modules so long as they can create this clear central reflective area.

....

ideally the ceiling speakers should be between 2 and 3 times the height of the listener level speakers. So in other words,  if your main speakers' tweeters are 3.5 feet off the ground, then you will need a ceiling speaker to be at least 7 feet from the floor for the best effect, and preferably a little more.

most people present later confirmed that they actually preferred the Atmos speakers to the ceiling-mounted speakers.

.....

More flexibility than we might have expected.
 
 Stephen's reply was interesting. He said that the actual positioning of the speakers was not as critical as we might have been conditioned to expect, basing our knowledge on the precise positional information dictated by ITU specifications for 5.1 and 7.1 systems.  This would explain why the angles cover such a broad range. For example, as I pointed out, 30-55 degrees for the Top Front could cover a ceiling distance of several feet and Stephen's view was that, so long as we stayed within the recommendations then we should be good to go. This was also confirmed by JJ who pointed out that some flexibility was required simply because there could easily be some impediment to precision placing in the ceiling - eg a joist or a water pipe.  While this is only speculation on my part, this could explain why the AVR manufacturers have, at this stage, decided not to bother with enabling the detailed input of precise speaker positions: if the placement is less critical than we might have expected, then diminishing returns (audibly) might have made the additional cost and complexity of the units less worthwhile....

...
with regard to Blurays was that we could expect content to be available “in time for Christmas” and probably before.
...

Speaker configuration options - how much flexibility do we have?
 
 I also explored with Stephen the different speaker configuration options which Denon have confirmed in their user manual, specifically the issue of the use of Front Heights in Atmos setups.
 
 This is especially relevant to my own situation because in my room I have limited space behind the listening position and I cannot meet the specified angles for Top Rear speakers. However, I am able to meet the required angles for Top Middle (65-100 degrees) and by using the extreme of 100 degrees, the speakers do fall behind my listening position. However, Denon's spec indicates that we cannot use Top Front and Top Middle together, so my plan was to use Front Heights (at the 42 degree position - which is a specified position for both Top Front and Front Heights) together with Top Middle. The latter is a permitted combination according to Denon. So I was especially interested in Stephen's comments on just how much flexibility we have with the speaker options. Stephen replied with this:
 
 “We have a set of minimum speaker configurations which must be supported in a Dolby Atmos product depending on how many speaker outputs it has. However, other configurations which make use of additional speaker configurations is permissible provided our requirements are adhered to by the manufacturer.  As you might recall, there are 34 speaker locations in the Dolby Atmos for the home format which consists of 24 "listener position" speakers and 10 "height position" speakers which can be thought of as 5 pairs of speakers in "front height", "top front", "top middle", "top rear" and "rear height" locations.  It is perfectly feasible to have front height speaker pairs used in combination with top speaker pairs in a Dolby Atmos system.  It is great to see that these additional configuration options are being made available by manufacturers such as Denon.”


Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 16, 2014, 08:24
In the ensuing months, Dolby will be coming out with a white paper for custom installers of ceiling speakers, and that will certainly shed more light on how to go about this...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 16, 2014, 11:38
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/home_theatre_speakers/tseries/fact_sheets/speakers/T101/index.html

Do they sell it individually in SG?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 16, 2014, 13:54
http://www.whathifi.com/news/dolby-atmos-bringing-it-home?utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=ENews%20Bulletins&utm_content=article_1_read_more&utm_source=August%2015,%202014

The KEF alternative...(http://images.cdn.whathifi.com/sites/whathifi.com/files/styles/big-image/public/brands/DolbyAtmos/kef_modules1_0.jpg?itok=Q4JxWSGD)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: matix on August 17, 2014, 16:08
http://canadahifi.com/bryston-ciw-ceilingin-wall-speaker/

Just in I think... Can't find in Bryston website.

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 17, 2014, 16:25
http://canadahifi.com/bryston-ciw-ceilingin-wall-speaker/

Just in I think... Can't find in Bryston website.



Quote from: James Tanner - Bryston;629679
Yes it is the Axiom/Bryston container that we developed together and our drivers and crossover.

Axiom and Bryston are really embarking on a partnership going forward in order to develop products specific to our market segments.

james

http://www.audioaficionado.org/bryston-audio/27909-new-bryston-ceiling-wall-speaker.html#post629679
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 17, 2014, 23:08
A paper that helps with speaker position:
http://www.avsforum.com/uploads/Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf (http://www.avsforum.com/uploads/Dolby-Atmos-for-the-Home-Theater.pdf)


Quote
If you use ceiling speakers, Dolby recommends that you use four or more speakers when possible, though two speakers will still provide a great experience. If you use four ceiling speakers, you should place thefront pair of ceiling speakers in front of the position where you’ll be listening andthe second pair of ceiling speakers behind you when you’re seated.If you use two ceiling speakers, mount them slightly in front of where you’ll be listening.Dolby recommends ceilingspeakers with wide dispersion patterns.If you use ceiling speakers with narrow dispersion (less than 90 degrees 90 degrees)or those with aimable drivers, angle the drivers slightly toward yourlistening position.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 19, 2014, 09:02
More info on placement:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/dolby-atmos-followup-answers/



Quote
...

Q: One reader has a small dedicated home theater with his main listening position against the back wall. Will this limit him to only to a 5.1.2 setup even though he’d like to use 4 ceiling speakers? How will the sound move across the Atmos channels if the top rear speakers can’t be behind the listening position?
A: A 5.1.2 with 2 overheads in front seems to be the best route. If he is limited to a 5.1.2 setup, it’s recommended to place the two overheads in front of the listening position in the ceiling. Or choose to introduce Dolby Atmos enabled speakers (integrated or module design) to his left and right front speakers.
Something he may want to try is to install the front two overheads as outlined above and experiment with placing Dolby Atmos enabled speakers modules on the side walls in the rear of the room above listening level. The use of Dolby Atmos enabled speaker modules in the rear may create the more diffused soundfield he seeks.
[In a later message, Josh forwarded this additional note.]
 Suggest he consider moving the couch slightly forward; installing overhead speakers with wide diffusion characteristics behind the couch is also an option.
Q: Many viewers with traditional 5.1 or 7.1 systems already mount their surround speakers above ear level, either on the ceiling or high on the walls. Does this change the recommendation for a 7.1.4 minimum configuration? I would think that if the surround speakers are already up high, 7.1.2 would be a natural first upgrade. Or is it recommended that they add new surround speakers at seating level?
A: Dolby’s recommendation is that surround speakers do not exceed 1 ½ times the height of the listening position. They could consider adding Dolby Atmos enabled speaker modules above the left back and right back surrounds.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: darthmax on August 19, 2014, 13:28
Speakers configuration of Denon AVR-X5200

http://vimeo.com/103571074
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on August 19, 2014, 13:53
Speakers configuration of Denon AVR-X5200

http://vimeo.com/103571074

useful.. now i got the glimpse of the mode.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 19, 2014, 14:03
Speakers configuration of Denon AVR-X5200

http://vimeo.com/103571074
Welcome back bro
Nice link ...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 19, 2014, 19:40
Additional info about speaker placement:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-154.html#post26671113


Quote
Speakers and placement considerations.
 
 The speakers used at listener level were all Kef designs: the tower and centre speakers are from the Kef R700 range. The upwards-firing modules are built by Kef according to the Dolby Atmos-enabled speaker specification but Dolby has no further information on that aspect of the speaker. As before, the surrounds were all placed at approximately ear level.
 
 Stephen later confirmed that this was to help create an optimal distance between the listener level speakers and the ceiling speakers. In fact, Stephen said that ideally the ceiling speakers should be between 2 and 3 times the height of the listener level speakers. For listener level speakers, the height of the surround speakers is still less critical when compared with the height of the front speakers, but Dolby recommend that surround speakers in a Dolby Atmos system be no more than 1.25 times the height of the front speakers.
 
 Translating that to a practical example, if your main speakers' tweeters are 3.5 feet off the ground, then you will need a ceiling speaker to be at least 7 feet from the floor for the best effect, and preferably a little more. And for those same mains speakers, the surrounds should not be higher than about 4ft 3 ins.

 
 Dolby spent some considerable time (and no doubt money) researching the way our ear/brain combination works with regard to our perception of overhead sounds. Apparently, when we hear sounds from overhead, there is a natural 'notch filter' engaged by our brain and the physical disposition of our ears (and even our shoulders which reflect sound back up to our ears) and between them, these help us determine when sounds are emanating from overhead. To capitalise on this, Dolby's Atmos speakers and modules have a frequency response which is shaped by internal DSP in the AVR. This includes a recreation of that notch filter which is important in telling us that a sound is coming from above us. At this time, Dolby would not reveal at what frequency this notch filter operates other than that it is in the HF area. I speculated 7kHz and JJ said “no, it will be much higher than that”. Stephen has since added that while a 7kHz peak is an essential part of the filter, it's not just about a notch or a peak filter, but the relative shape of the filter above 5kHz - everything above 5kHz being an important part of the filter.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 21, 2014, 19:33
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa (http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/5-reasons-dolby-atmos-is-doa)

Here's a counter article by the same folks, who I should hasten to highlight, have not heard Atmos at all before writing either article...
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/why-dolby-atmos-will-succeed
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 24, 2014, 16:49
Looks like another positive review, plus pics of the setup:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-175.html#post26829297


I hope don't have to wait too long for software and hardware to appear in SG...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 25, 2014, 21:29
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Elite+Speakers/SP-EBS73-LR

Pioneer's Atmos enabled speakers...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on August 25, 2014, 21:54
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Elite+Speakers/SP-EBS73-LR

Pioneer's Atmos enabled speakers...


http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-EBS73-Atmos-enabled-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00MQEE4M8/ref=sr_1_12?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1408974873&sr=1-12&keywords=pioneer+speakers


WOW. Anything Atmos also gets a price hike!??

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 03, 2014, 18:04
I have just used up 500ft of speaker cable, and that's not including my front three speakers...(http://www.dtvforum.info/public/style_emoticons/default/hyper.gif)

I think I will start a build thread some time soon...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 05, 2014, 07:08
I m not going to install a ceiling spk if I get the Atmos AVR in due course... Will probably get an atmos enabled ceiling firing spk like the pioneer or equivalent... But like everything label with "latest"  or "new"....The price is insanely high...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 05, 2014, 07:55
You may want to check the cost of hacking and installing a speaker vs the expensive Atmos speaker..
I m not going to install a ceiling spk if I get the Atmos AVR in due course... Will probably get an atmos enabled ceiling firing spk like the pioneer or equivalent... But like everything label with "latest"  or "new"....The price is insanely high...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 05, 2014, 08:01
You may want to check the cost of hacking and installing a speaker vs the expensive Atmos speaker..

Roughly how much?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 05, 2014, 09:24
Roughly how much?


It's part of my hacking work, so I got it for $2-400 depending on the numer of speakers and the run of cables...
Cables extra..
But I am doing the entire place for my mum so this was a bonus..

Once I come back and the dust settles (literally) I will share more...

So far I have laid 600 ft of cables and counting... pics and more in October... cheers!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 06, 2014, 05:14
I m not going to install a ceiling spk if I get the Atmos AVR in due course... Will probably get an atmos enabled ceiling firing spk like the pioneer or equivalent... But like everything label with "latest"  or "new"....The price is insanely high...

One more Atmos enable speaker for your consideration:
http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/triad-bronze-lr-h-atmos

USD 1000 per piece...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 06, 2014, 05:48
One more Atmos enable speaker for your consideration:
http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/triad-bronze-lr-h-atmos

USD 1000 per piece...
I am sure there will be cheaper alternatives as time goes by. Thanks for the info though.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 06, 2014, 05:53
More on Atmos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GQ-fxj3t6k&feature=youtu.be

(don't know how to embed videos... :(  )
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 06, 2014, 09:47
To answer a pm here so others can also learn:


Quote
Can I seek your help whether do you have any contractors for ceiling speakers installation? I am planning for renovation and going to purchase a couple of speakers online and thus looking for someone to work with my contractor to install the speakers.

Btw ur post mentioned you used up 600 feet of cables, may I know how many speakers you are installing that require so much???

I will share more of my build when I am back from my trip. My renovation has not finished yet.

The amount of cable depends on how many speakers you place, the size of your room, and also whether you build in any redundacy..

Eg, one may measure from point to point, that the distance from the front feature wall to the speaker, and determine that it's 5m. But your electrician may run things differently and have to go to the side wall, then upwards and down.

You will also need to have spare amounts at each end to allow for flexibility for placement.

Also is Atmos the last word? Certainly not, there can be new formats, eg Auro is just round the corner, so if you are building something plan for more if you can. Just run the cable and place it into the false ceiling, and cut it out later..

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 07, 2014, 20:19
Just when you think it's safe to build those speakers into the ceiling... there's Auro..:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-222.html#post27206858


Quote
Atmos and Auro3D compatible speaker layout 

  As promised in my previous entry I wanted to prepare a suggestion for speaker types and layout to provide for Atmos as well as Auro3D sound. For everybody who haven't heard Auro 3D so far, writing it off already is a huge mistake IMO and Auro will most likely be available in normal priced gear also soon. Preparing your speakers for both is thus very important to be future proof.
 
 Basis for this guideline were countless hours in this thread as well as talking to different dealers and a long conversation with the Auro engineers during the IFA in Berlin. We looked together at the famous Denon diagram which is in general also valid for Auro so we should use this to start with. Fortubately the 5.x or 7.x bed is the same for Auro and Atmos, so we should only concentrate what is happening at the ceiling.
 
 Starting from the back we have first the rear height speakers and the rear top speakers. According to the chart both these have very similar angles of 125-150 respectvely 135-150 degrees, so installing one pair of speakers fulfilling both requirement is very easy achievable. In regards to speaker types two possibilities exist. A direct aiming height speaker tilted towards the MLP or an in ceiling speaker with a pointable tweeter towards the MLP. Both ways are a compromise but should work for both systems. Maybe the direct speakers are a little bit better for Auro and the ceiling speakers better for Atmos so choice should be done depending on preferences.
 
 Next row of speakers are the top middle speakers. In a normal sized Atmos setup this row should not have much relevance as normal setup would be rear and front top speakers, but for Auro3D this is the position where the Voice of God speaker should be. VOG is a mono speaker located more or less directly above the MLP. Speaker type can be a normal in-ceiling speaker such as used for Atmos rear and top speakers. In general it can be stated that the VOG speaker does not hold much relevance in the Auro setup. Especially when directly pointing back and front speakers are used no real difference can be heard between a setup with an without VOG speaker, so this one can be skipped without much influence.
 
 The following row of speaker is the front top speaker. Now whilst the middle top was not really that important for Atmos the front top row has little to none importance for Auro. Therfore my suggestion for this row would be in-ceiling or Dolby enabled speakers. If the overall amount of channels is of relevance this row could be muted during Auro playback and the amplifier could be used to drive front height speakers.
 
 The last row according to the Denon sheet is the front height speaker which again like the rear height are direct firing speakers tilted to the MLP. The difference between Atmos and Auro for this row would be that the speakers should be attached 30-45 degrees which leave them sometimes in the middle of the room (in my case for instance) Auro requires them to be in line with front row speakers / the screen and not much relevance is given to the angle. As these speakers do not hold much relevance for Atmos, my suggestion would be to install them by the screen and maybe even mute them for Atmos. As suggested above front top for Atmos and front height for Auro could be run over the same amp using a switch in between.
 
 One last speaker which is an Auro only one is the height center soeaker . This one is a mono speaker and should be installed either directly firing over the screen or as a LCR designated in-ceiling speaker (such as the IC 608 FG LCR from Jamo). This speaker is not essential for Auro but has quite a nice effect to distribute dialogues more homogeniozsly over the screen.
 
 Conclusion Some clever arrangement and maybe one additional pair of speakers can achieve that your speaker types and layout is at least Atmos and Auro compatible. Now DTS UHD  might be another story again...(http://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 08, 2014, 23:09
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-next-generation-audio-for-cinema-white-paper.pdf

The Atmos white paper...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 09, 2014, 04:43
Finally, the installation white paper :
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 09, 2014, 07:00
Finally, the installation white paper :
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf

Wow! What are you doing at 4.30am in the morning?!

Anyway...I have read the white papers on the installation and the part on the floor (horizontal plane) where it advocates ALL GROUND SPEAKERS to be of the same exact height...even the rear surround back channels need to be at the same height as the rest of the speaker array (preferably)...all at 1.2m. I can understand the rationale as this is to create a "layered" audio "stratosphere"...to demarcate the sound dimension between horizontal plane vs anything above us (Dolby Atmos will take care of this frequency). Imagine if the front mains, surround or the rear back speakers each have different heights, it may create "confusion" or "muddled" the Dolby Atmos mix which may produce "less than desirable" effect to the overall "Atmos" experience.

ps: Surround back channels can be slightly higher but must not be 1.2x the height of the front mains or rest of the speaker array.

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 09, 2014, 07:06
Just when you think it's safe to build those speakers into the ceiling... there's Auro..:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-222.html#post27206858



I dunno where Barco Auro 3D stands in the market...although it was mentioned in some AV articles that Auro 3D has partnered with major studio and even AV Receiver manufacturers like Denon but we have to admit even if it is true, Auro 3D ain't taking flight anytime soon...their marketing just ain't as aggressive as Dolby...Of course, with Dolby introducing the Dolby Atmos, before long...we'll see Dolby's main rival, DTS Inc coming up with another version...DTS Neo X2? :P But DTS will have to make sure that it is NOT just another DSP processing...as Dolby Atmos is using a new concept towards audio reproduction - i.e. Object-based. So the next new feat of engineering from DTS has to be something along that stretch.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on September 09, 2014, 08:35
To understand Auro 3D, that is way back to 2005/6 in the film industry...
http://www.galaxystudios.com/
production;
http://www.auro-3d.com/consumer/movies/
for proceesor already have installation site in Sg;
http://www.stormaudio.com/en/products/3d-av-surround-sound-processors/
http://www.datasatdigital.com/consumer/info-center/news/2013/auro-rs20i-ISE.php
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: malsound on September 09, 2014, 15:41
http://hifipig.com/kef-r50-dolby-atmos-loudspeaker-announced/
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 09, 2014, 19:32
Wow! What are you doing at 4.30am in the morning?!

Anyway...I have read the white papers on the installation and the part on the floor (horizontal plane) where it advocates ALL GROUND SPEAKERS to be of the same exact height...even the rear surround back channels need to be at the same height as the rest of the speaker array (preferably)...all at 1.2m. I can understand the rationale as this is to create a "layered" audio "stratosphere"...to demarcate the sound dimension between horizontal plane vs anything above us (Dolby Atmos will take care of this frequency). Imagine if the front mains, surround or the rear back speakers each have different heights, it may create "confusion" or "muddled" the Dolby Atmos mix which may produce "less than desirable" effect to the overall "Atmos" experience.

ps: Surround back channels can be slightly higher but must not be 1.2x the height of the front mains or rest of the speaker array.



Constantly on XP...
More seriously, had sleepless nights as I have to finish work before I fly off...

Will resume my reno work when back..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 09, 2014, 19:35
Constantly on XP...
More seriously, had sleepless nights as I have to finish work before I fly off...

Will resume my reno work when back..
Aren't u a lecturer or researcher of some sort?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on September 09, 2014, 19:36
something to do with eyes...  ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 09, 2014, 19:40
Opthamologist?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 09, 2014, 19:43
Aren't u a lecturer or researcher of some sort?
I get to present my data over there.. so I have to prepare my talks :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 10, 2014, 22:12
Just to post a quick reply here..
I have got quite a pm on who's my ID / reno person, speakers, and such...

I haven't got the time now, but later on I will post more info when I am back and the dust settles, literally...

Essentially, Nic from Acoustic Integration, and Peng are helping me source speakers, and acoustic management, and the electricals are from the ID.
I have nicknamed the man "cable eater" as he has used up 600 ft of cables for my place  :o

I have pre-placed 16 or so speaker locations, just in case things change for Auro/ DTS-UHD etc..

Will setup build thread when I have the time... cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 13, 2014, 16:47
I just spoke to an installer at Richer Sounds in UK...

He attended a demo there and everyone who came from his store and attend the session was very chuffed at the demo. So despite his reservations about the HDCP / HDMI 2 issue, he waxed lyrically about the potential of Atmos...


He feels that 11 speakers, with four ceiling ones is fine for a domestic setting.. Remember UK homes aren't as big as those barns in USA, so he is talking about something we can relate to..

Clearly a convert :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 13, 2014, 16:51
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/atmos-goldenear

Quote
The GoldenEar system used an Oppo Blu-ray player, an Integra Atmos-ready pre-pro, three Pass Labs monoblock amps for the front channels, six other amp channels for the two surrounds and two ceiling speakers (I didn't catch the make for the latter, but it was far more modest and less pricey than the Pass amps). The speakers were the GoldenEar Ones left and right, a SuperCenter XL, GoldenEar Twos for the surrounds, and four Invisa HTR 7000s for the ceiling channels. The four subs were the powered subs built into the GoldenEar Ones and Twos. The levels chosen were loud enough, but sensible, and the experienced convinced me, at least in these fledgling days of Atmos (I remain open minded on this), that true ceiling speakers just might produce the best Atmos results.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Count on September 15, 2014, 15:57
Based on what I read, all things being equal, ceiling speakers should give better results compared to Atmos speakers with reflected sound. I think a big challenge is choosing the right ceiling speakers (and I am most likely to go with in-ceiling speakers due to WAF and cost reasons) to timbre match the surround speakers.

Read from the Dolby guide that you will be able to upmix native 5.1 and 7.1 as well so that the ceiling speakers are utilised. Not sure how that will work out but it would be a nice option to have.

Another big question is how much more will Atmos blu rays cost. Will it be just another surround format included in standard blu rays? Or must you pay more for a special Atmos version (like 3D blu ray and some DTS DVD titles in the past)?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 16, 2014, 20:21
IMO, Atmos or Auro will succeed based on the number of buyers..
So the more adopters the better..
Initially some discs may have a premium, but I doubt if it will be so for long.

They should take a leaf from SACDs and DVD-A. The price premium means that the pool of already small number of buyers is further reduced.

The Dolby Surround and perhaps the Auro upmixer will be more important than new discs, since the legacy catalogue discs will be the main source rather than Atmos enabled discs.

Atmos has done the right thing by making their format available to HITB buyers...

Right now the cheapest Auro processor is 16k and up..

That will make it less attractive to the box movers..

Even if it did well at CEDIA:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/auro-3d-does-dazzling-demo
As we have often seen in the past...

It's not always the best format that wins...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on September 20, 2014, 18:31
is there any slim size of concentric speaker for VOG (Voice Of God) in Auro 3D?

seen the hong kong av atmos setup, there's b&w concentric speaker on ceiling but can't seem to find it in the website.

or get a single piece in-wall (b&w, kef) speaker then build a box to house it?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: alf on September 20, 2014, 18:50
Yeah, some are pretty expensive..
I guess the Def Techs are more affordable then..

Actually havin tilting tweeters might work well, so they can double up as side surrounds for conventional surrounds too at a stretch..

There is also other brands like BG radia install series come with ribbon moveable tweeter around or cheaper than Def tech
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on September 21, 2014, 01:41
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5587/14858177261_2490bd518b_b.jpg)

oh, i just realised that it's actually an in-wall speaker built onto the enclosure, a custom make to fit it.

guess i will be doing the same way.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 21, 2014, 04:25
I am pondering about adding a VOG speaker ..
I might resort to a phantom mode instead ..

If you shift the main listening position then it won't work anymore ..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on September 21, 2014, 11:12
With wide dispersion and as long is there, our brain should be able to interpret it?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Wilber on September 21, 2014, 16:33
anyway, stand-by the cable. just in case next time when you need it, you are ready to roll.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 23, 2014, 22:58
An interesting experience with Atmos modules:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1616010-official-2014-denon-atmos-xt32-model-thread-x4100-x5200-x7200-44.html#post27612089

Quote
...

1. Overall, the Atmos "elevation" effect is somewhat fragile, obviously much moreso than physically having speakers up top.  Sitting in the sweet spot after the change the effect is very convincing, but it's clearly a "virtual speaker" and not going to work as well as a physical speaker in terms of solidity and imaging.
 
 2. The Atmos modules really have to be at or above ear level to be convincing.  Otherwise you are getting too much direct sound that your brain localizes at ear level, "smearing" the virtual overhead imaging and ruining the effect.  This basically trashes the idea I had of sitting the modules on a below-ear-height AV console.
 
 3. If you have elevated surrounds, adding a pair of Atmos modules up front is helpful but not an OMG dramatic change.  The elevated rear surrounds are already splashing a lot of ambient sound off my ceiling, so the Atmos modules just help to "close the dome" above and forward of my head.  I would imagine it would be better with physical in/on ceiling speakers, since they would "anchor" more precisely.
...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 28, 2014, 20:30
http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/cedia-2014-show-report

This article has some interesting observations..

One point that might interest us, since we stay in relatively smaller homes, is that if we use Atmos speakers at ear level, whilst they may point up, there may be enough side diffusion of sound to distract from the listening experience...


Quote
...

Conclusion
So what do we think sounds better, Atmos-enabled speakers or in-ceiling speakers? Based on what Cliff and I heard at CEDIA, we’d give an edge to the in-ceiling speakers. They deliver a bit more precision and a fuller sound because they are not bandwidth limited. In-ceiling speakers also seem to offer a wider sweet spot; again something to consider for larger rooms with multiple seats. However, they can be distracting if you sit directly below one of the height speakers. At the same time, we have to give credit where it’s due. We’ve been skeptical thus far about how effective Atmos-enabled speakers would be, but speakers from Pioneer’s Elite line have proven to us that the gap can be awfully thin. At this point, we look forward to getting some of these Atmos Elevation speakers in for some further testing to get a better idea of how the magic happens.
Auro-3D put on an incredibly immersive demo proving its prowess for an unparalleled cinematic and musical experience.  We are hopeful this format catches on and reaches products at the affordable level for the consumer marketplace.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 10, 2014, 22:57
Something about speaker position off AVS:


Quote
My FH and main speakers are not close - the FHs are ceiling mounted and, again, there is a good angle of separation between them and the mains.
 
 What I am finding is that if the ceiling speakers are directly overhead the ear-level speakers, or close to being so, then the effect is diminished. Get the angular separation and boom - it all comes into focus.  Dolby say that FHs can be installed on the front wall (30° would facilitate this for many, depending on the room) but I am suggesting that this is not perhaps the best place and mounting them on the ceiling is better. When the speakers are mounted that way they can be designated FH or TF (angles overlap so much). I am designating them FH because I don't have room behind me for TR and so I am using FH+TM. (TF+TM is not a permitted combination).
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 27, 2014, 14:30
So bro Des:
What's your verdict after KEC -

Ceiling or Atmos enabled speakers?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 27, 2014, 20:27
So bro Des:
What's your verdict after KEC -

Ceiling or Atmos enabled speakers?

See my comments here http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=183110.msg1023436#msg1023436
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on October 27, 2014, 21:30
My feel is that with ATMOS speakers reflecting off the ceiling, the sweet spot will be very small. So small that it might be good for only 1 person to enjoy ATMOS. Acoustical reflections are very sensitive to angle of reflection. And this makes the sweet spot extemely small. I don't think ATMOS will be impressive when it comes to a gathering when using reflected sound technique.

But with ceiling mounted speakers, the sweet spot will be much larger. This is because direct radiating speakers just simply illuminate where they are pointed at. My bias goes towards ceiling mounted speakers.

Of course, implementing ceiling spks in a home has got other challenges (WAF, cabling, mounting)...
Title: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 27, 2014, 21:36
My feel is that with ATMOS speakers reflecting off the ceiling, the sweet spot will be very small. So small that it might be good for only 1 person to enjoy ATMOS. Acoustical reflections are very sensitive to angle of reflection. And this makes the sweet spot extemely small. I don't think ATMOS will be impressive when it comes to a gathering when using reflected sound technique.

But with ceiling mounted speakers, the sweet spot will be much larger. This is because direct radiating speakers just simply illuminate where they are pointed at. My bias goes towards ceiling mounted speakers.

Of course, implementing ceiling spks in a home has got other challenges (WAF, cabling, mounting)...

Yes, agreed on the aspect of ceiling speakers casting a wider sound dispersion for a larger group of audience. But be careful with where you sit lest the sound from the ceiling speakers becomes too localized. Ceiling speakers will dictate the seating position while the opposite is true for reflection.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 27, 2014, 22:03
Yes, agreed on the aspect of ceiling speakers casting a wider sound dispersion for a larger group of audience. But be careful with where you sit lest the sound from the ceiling speakers becomes too localized. Ceiling speakers will dictate the seating position while the opposite is true for reflection.

I am speaking from a position of speculation since I haven't heard it in action, but when I was doing up my place, I noted things like ceiling height, dispersion pattern, and the nature of acoustic treatment all matter.

As you said, in this case, having less sound absorption material actually works better.
Title: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 27, 2014, 22:16
I am speaking from a position of speculation since I haven't heard it in action, but when I was doing up my place, I noted things like ceiling height, dispersion pattern, and the nature of acoustic treatment all matter.

As you said, in this case, having less sound absorption material actually works better.

Yes, that is correct. If I have to name one gripe about Atmos, it does not deliver a one size fits all solution. Ceiling speakers if placed properly in a setup would yield the best results no doubt. The reflection sound approach will need a lot of patience and testing to get that perfect sweet spot like what Jag mentioned. For instance, higher ceiling would not yield good result from reflection approach.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: francis wu on October 29, 2014, 16:22
Just caught Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and the closing credits scream 'Dolby Atmos' in certain theatres!  Wow, this encoded Atmos movie will be the showcase for Dolby!! :D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 29, 2014, 19:19
Just caught Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and the closing credits scream 'Dolby Atmos' in certain theatres!  Wow, this encoded Atmos movie will be the showcase for Dolby!! :D
Sadly, it's not the list yet..
The number of Atmos (cinema) movies runs into triple digits, but we have only three releases so far...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 02, 2014, 01:00
The homemade Atmos speaker:
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/dolby-atmos-elevation-speaker

Quote
Make Your Own Dolby Atmos Elevation Speaker?
(http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/dolby-atmos-elevation-speaker/HomemadeAtmosSpeaker.JPG/image_preview) (http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/dolby-atmos-elevation-speaker/HomemadeAtmosSpeaker.JPG/image_view_fullscreen)
Homemade Dolby Atmos Elevation Speaker using SVS Ultra Bookshelf as Front Firing and JBL Proiii for the Upfiring Array
Making your own Atmos speaker would certainly be a prudent solution while we await a common speaker layout that will work for ALL of the next generation surround formats. You betcha!  Considering how most of the patent for the Dolby Atmos Elevation speaker resides on the electronics side of the AV receiver [IE. HRTF and High Pass Filter (HPF)]  we can't help but  wonder why some moderately tech savvy consumers simply wouldn’t repurpose older bookshelf speakers they have lying around the house for the same function. Assuming you don’t care about matching the form factor of your existing speakers, this seems like a more economical approach, and it will likely give you more dynamic headroom if you’re actually using a quality two-way speaker versus the single 3” full range driver options currently offered by a couple of manufacturers. Please note based on the directivity requirements of Dolby, you will likely achieve better results employing a coaxial two-way speaker (like what Atlantic Tech is doing) or a single concentric two-way driver (like what Pioneer is doing).
Once you have your speaker selected, all you would have to do is angle it between 10 to 30 degrees (relative to the front firing drivers) as called out in the Dolby Atmos Elevation speaker patent.  You could do this with a simple rubber wedge or Auralex MoPADS (http://www.audioholics.com/acoustic-reviews/auralex-mopads-monitor-isolation) that would also provide a bit of acoustical isolation between the speakers.  You would then set the HPF of the Atmos elevation channels to around 180Hz to reduce low frequency radiation or at the worst case you could employ an external HPF if your receiver doesn’t have independent crossover settings. This would certainly be a prudent solution while we wait for Auro 3D and DTS UHD so the industry can finalize a common speaker layout that will work for all of the next generation surround formats.
Procedure For Making Your Own Atmos Elevation Speaker:
 
  • Select a smallish bookshelf speaker that can easily fit on top of your front and/or rear surround speakers (choose something with similar output and frequency response capabilities above 200Hz as your other surround channels if possible).
  • Place the speaker (with the front baffle firing up towards the ceiling) on top of your front and/or rear speakers at 20 degrees using a door stop or foam wedge.
  • Connect the top firing speaker to the Atmos channel of your AV Receiver.
  • Set your AV Receiver HPF bass management for the Atmos channels between 150-200Hz.
  • Level match and time align.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 04, 2014, 22:12
Just answering a pm here so more can learn and share:

Quote
And going to do false ceiling and I am thinking of getting the Anthony Gallos for my surrounds.
It will be in ceiling mounting as I have to compromise as my new place it tiny.

Will be setting up 7.1, it is a one bedroom apartment and I am hacking away the wall that separate the living room and bedroom.

So here comes the tricky bit, my ceiling is high, it's about 3.7m high. And from the TV console to run cables up the wall and to the false ceiling and to the back, at least 10 meters for the back surrounds.
Side surrounds will hit around 7meters to reach the middle where the sofa sits.

I'm not sure what I am asking but do you think this is even workable?
My current set up is 5.1 and I'm using Monitor Audio BX5 floorstanders for my front and Monitor audio center.
So now I am looking at purchasing 4 anthony gallos for the surrounds.

I know you have done your renovation before, so would love to find out your opinions.
Is there a way to change speaker cables in future once it is lay in the false ceiling?
Any idea or creative way to do that in future if I want to change speaker cables?



There are a few technical issues, and I also hope those who have actually use Atmos can chip in..
I also mentioned this to Nic who can help you with those Anthony Gallos.

First, use the A'Diva instead of the micros for such a huge place.

You can place the speakers on the false ceiling, but you may want to consider using a drop down thing, so your speakers can look like droplets of water?

Then you can also consider reducing your listening area. Such a big space is nice, but your current front speakers and the rest aren't really meant to fill such a big space.

Some bros use speaker stands, is that an option?

Otherwise, your next amp needs to be spot on for calibration and still I worry about filling that space.

As for changing speaker cable, it's not easy but if your contractor can attach a lead and also do a trunking for it, that can be possible.

Good luck bro. Cheers.

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kimotherapy on November 05, 2014, 12:01
Just answering a pm here so more can learn and share:




There are a few technical issues, and I also hope those who have actually use Atmos can chip in..
I also mentioned this to Nic who can help you with those Anthony Gallos.

First, use the A'Diva instead of the micros for such a huge place.

You can place the speakers on the false ceiling, but you may want to consider using a drop down thing, so your speakers can look like droplets of water?

Then you can also consider reducing your listening area. Such a big space is nice, but your current front speakers and the rest aren't really meant to fill such a big space.

Some bros use speaker stands, is that an option?

Otherwise, your next amp needs to be spot on for calibration and still I worry about filling that space.

As for changing speaker cable, it's not easy but if your contractor can attach a lead and also do a trunking for it, that can be possible.

Good luck bro. Cheers.

Hi Bro, thanks for the advice.
Seems like using A'Diva will be a better idea for the space.
But it's actually not a huge space. 
Let me attached the plan here and maybe you will have a better idea.

My AVR is currently Marantz 7008, and I'm using Emotiva XPA2 to drive the 2 front floorstanders.
And the front speakers to my sofa area should be around 2.5meters away.

Ok, for the speaker cable part, I will have to discuss with my contractor if he can do the trunking thingy in the false ceiling.

thanks again for the valuable advice.
Here's the plan. Not very ideal but I will have to make it work somehow.
(http://s3.postimg.org/lnl9093mn/placement.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lnl9093mn/)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 05, 2014, 13:51
Consider using the wall sides for the surrounds, and even stands or some kind of shelves for your rear surrounds..
Say on the wardrobes on the right side.
Better than ceiling for surrounds.

As for the ceiling ones, well we live within our means and WAF...

Anyway, spend as much as you can on surround cables.

I used Monoprice AWG 12 in wall ones recently, not ex and they ship free from Amazon USA.
Check them out..
I used QED classic and micros for my other project recently too, Seng Heng has a decent price on the Classics..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kimotherapy on November 05, 2014, 14:11
Consider using the wall sides for the surrounds, and even stands or some kind of shelves for your rear surrounds..
Say on the wardrobes on the right side.
Better than ceiling for surrounds.

As for the ceiling ones, well we live within our means and WAF...

Anyway, spend as much as you can on surround cables.

I used Monoprice AWG 12 in wall ones recently, not ex and they ship free from Amazon USA.
Check them out..
I used QED classic and micros for my other project recently too, Seng Heng has a decent price on the Classics..

Hello Pete, For the surround left and right I can still go for the wall sides but for the Surround back, don't think I have the luxury to mount them on stands or side walls. So for back surrounds seems like I can only for for in ceiling mount.

For the surround cables, LHS recommended the belden 8472, those are 16 AWG.
Maybe I will go for something better at 12 AWG, probably belden 1313A?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on November 05, 2014, 16:24
don't use lower then AWG14 wire , if you are not using large spk or run longer then 20m .
IF you do so , do not frame any speaker that give out defused sound but yourself .
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kimotherapy on November 05, 2014, 17:09
don't use lower then AWG14 wire , if you are not using large spk or run longer then 20m .
IF you do so , do not frame any speaker that give out defused sound but yourself .
Oh ok noted bro. So the recommended 16 AWG is fine.
Yep correct I won't be running the cable longer than 20m.
Max 15m for the back surrounds. Side surrounds will run around 7m.

Oh ya thanks for the audition that day for the Gallos.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on November 05, 2014, 18:08
Oh ok noted bro. So the recommended 16 AWG is fine.
Yep correct I won't be running the cable longer than 20m.
Max 15m for the back surrounds. Side surrounds will run around 7m.

Oh ya thanks for the audition that day for the Gallos.
For inwall or inceiling 1307 is good enough ,the outer jacket play a importance role as heat inside the fasle ceiling can melt normal unprotected wire.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kimotherapy on November 05, 2014, 18:34
For inwall or inceiling 1307 is good enough ,the outer jacket play a importance role as heat inside the fasle ceiling can melt normal unprotected wire.

Ok noted bro. Will get from LHS the 1307.
Good point there.
thanks for the advice
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: askarmelayu on November 05, 2014, 21:32
For inwall or ceiling 1307 is good enough ,the outer jacket play a importance role as heat inside the fasle ceiling can melt normal unprotected wire.
any problem if use 10awg unsheathed PVC cable in trunking only?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 05, 2014, 22:51
Listened to the Pioneer setup recently...

The room was acoustically treated and really quiet... that was impressive..

Atmos itself was subtle, and for those expecting a massive difference might be disappointed, but actually that's fine to me, as I don't want all the attention drawn to some DSU enhanced sounds, or just hear those leaves..

Yet if it's one of the blockbuster movies, Atmos may be less impressive than those quieter ones where ambience is important..

It's an improvement, but not a gamer changer.

IMHO, game changers in the past 5 years were:

Audyssey XT 32
Lossless sound
Full HD

to name a few...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 08, 2014, 17:33
Dolby Surround, the 'bonus' you get with Atmos:

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/meet-new-dolby-surround

Quote
What is the new Dolby Surround?
 Dolby Surround is part of the Dolby Atmos bundle of technologies. It is an upmixer designed to function with traditional channel-based layouts, as well as Atmos enabled layouts that include overhead or Atmos-enabled speakers. It processes native stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 content.
 How does it work?
 The Dolby Surround upmixer is based on phase and gain relationships of elements in the signal, but importantly employs wideband functionality that analyzes and processes multiple perceptually spaced frequency bands in the signal. The benefit is a finer-grained analysis of the source content prior to steering. The result, we believe, is a more accurate soundstage.
 How does it sound?
 What was critically important here was for the upmixer to complement (and not compete with) the intent of the artist's original mix. When employed with overhead or Dolby-enabled speakers there is sense of additional spaciousness or what I call "air."
 What's the best speaker configuration for Dolby Surround?
 It is not limited to a specific speaker count. It can be employed in a 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos system, a 24.1.10 Dolby Atmos system, or any speaker configuration in between.
 Dolby Pro Logic and its descendants have side-to-side and front-to-back adjustments. Does Dolby Surround work the same way?
 There is a Center Spread control (optional to implement by manufacturer) that is designed to spread the center image into the L and R mains. Like the Center Width control of Pro Logic, it is designed to complement musical content, or can be used by consumers who have a very wide screen display and want to spread the dialogue more evenly across the screen.
 Why no front-to-back control?
 The new algorithm we employ for Dolby Surround does a better job of extracting and separating elements of the mix—including ambient content—and distributing them evenly throughout the soundstage. Hence there is less need for controls that were inherent to a wideband algorithm.
 What is going to happen with the existing Pro Logic family, such as Pro Logic II, IIx, and IIz?
 As part of the Dolby Atmos bundle, Dolby Surround is a total replacement of Pro Logic. However, we are still licensing Pro Logic family. You will see it in non Dolby Atmos equipped AVRs. A manufacturer could also choose to include Pro Logic family as a complement to their licensed Dolby Atmos technology bundle, and in fact Onkyo and Yamaha are including it in their Dolby Atmos receivers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 13, 2014, 22:48
Tonight I had my own personal experience with Atmos, courtesy of the Denon 4100 kindly lent to me...

The AG A'Divas do an excellent job... the diffusion of sound works well.

And the benefit of Atmos is very soundtrack dependent. In those explosion heavy, action packed loud movies, you will get info overload and the Atmos speakers won't make their presence felt as much.

BUT, here is the caveat... as bro Desray has mentioned, it's about the Atmosphere, i.e. the speakers should not draw excessive attention to themselves. It should be a blend of sound, so you feel that you are sitting within a cocoon..

Try it without turning up the Atmos channels too much..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on November 14, 2014, 00:50
Tonight I had my own personal experience with Atmos, courtesy of the Denon 4100 kindly lent to me...

The AG A'Divas do an excellent job... the diffusion of sound works well.

And the benefit of Atmos is very soundtrack dependent. In those explosion heavy, action packed loud movies, you will get info overload and the Atmos speakers won't make their presence felt as much.

BUT, here is the caveat... as bro Desray has mentioned, it's about the Atmosphere, i.e. the speakers should not draw excessive attention to themselves. It should be a blend of sound, so you feel that you are sitting within a cocoon..

Try it without turning up the Atmos channels too much..
you can also try out the refection by point the spk 15-30 toward wall and feel how Auro should sound like,try it you will find new ground ,have fun.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 14, 2014, 23:58
Right now the Top fronts and rears are a little prominent, and I did an experiment:

I switched off the fronts and rear backs, leaving only the ceiling speakers and the centre. And guess what, it's pretty enjoyable still!

For those getting into Atmos, IMO, you will need to turn down the ceiling speakers a bit, as Audyssey tends to set their volumes a little high..

Then when all the speakers are running, the back and the rear backs become a little too loud. Remember the ceiling speakers are meant to add mood and ambience.. not over-power.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on November 15, 2014, 00:30
I switched off the fronts and rear backs, leaving only the ceiling speakers and the centre. And guess what, it's pretty enjoyable still!
that is what set the AG design and speaker apart from most of other made , perhaps for those who already have AG flushed in ceiling for the pass 10 over years , already know how immersive sound it can get from a very small 3" speaker.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 16, 2014, 18:00
After playing with ATMOS for three days, I have come to a few conclusions.
Firstly, I like it.. It's a subtle addition and the DSU component does make a difference. Ceiling speakers work, but avoid turning the volume up too much..
As for which ones work better, IMHO, small footprint ones that are easy to mount, and can be directed work nicely. They don't need to have a lot of bass, as your sub can take care of that.
They need to have a wide dispersion but brand matching isn't do important. Audyssey can help with this.


They don't need to be expensive but quality helps, if they disperse well and don't simply beam at you...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 16, 2014, 19:00
Agreed...here's another tip for those on the fence whether to install ceiling speakers or use an existing speakers to simulate Atmos-elevated speakers.

"If your ceiling height is low - like less than 2.6m, Atmos-elevated speakers may be a better choice for you. The reason is simple, the lower the ceiling, the more "localize" the speakers and that will be very distracting. For anything higher - like more than 3.0m and above, ceiling speakers with wide dispersion will be the best for Atmos implementation..."
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Ccyao on November 16, 2014, 19:13
My ceiling is 2.6m. However, I have a ceiling fan at the center of the small room (3m x 3.5m). I'm getting 2 pairs of AG Micros as the Atmos speakers. They will be at the same position as my Front and Rear Height speakers. But with the micros, I have the flexibility to point them downwards instead of directing them forward and backward with my current bookshelf speakers.
Will the Micros provide a wide dispersion? And should I be directing all the 4 to the MLP?


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Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 16, 2014, 19:24
My ceiling is 2.6m. However, I have a ceiling fan at the center of the small room (3m x 3.5m). I'm getting 2 pairs of AG Micros as the Atmos speakers. They will be at the same position as my Front and Rear Height speakers. But with the micros, I have the flexibility to point them downwards instead of directing them forward and backward with my current bookshelf speakers.
Will the Micros provide a wide dispersion? And should I be directing all the 4 to the MLP?


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Its subjective as it is different for every room. You have to try it yourself...since AG Micros seems to have a wider dispersion, you need not point towards the MLP for better results.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Ccyao on November 16, 2014, 19:31
Thanks Bro Des! Will try it out when I receive my Micros.


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Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 16, 2014, 21:15
Thanks Bro Des! Will try it out when I receive my Micros.


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Bro I suggest you try the Atmos suggestion angles and point them at the MLP as a start... then adjust from there.. that's what I am doing.
Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 16, 2014, 21:17
Bro Des

Maybe after one or two more people get Atmos we can start a "knowledge base" kind of thread for Atmos / Auro...

For now, my money is on Atmos... but someone told me more will be know in Feb...

For Cash:

Feb, the "water will lower and the stone will be revealed" and I leave it to the ever pleasant and politically correct Mod Des to help you explain that.... :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Ccyao on November 16, 2014, 21:57
Thanks Bro Pete! Will do that.


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Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on November 16, 2014, 21:59
Omg!! Words of wisdom...
so if i read it right, in feb 2015 i will know what it all means?
Chim leh....
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on November 16, 2014, 22:09
Bro Desray, 3 more months till feb 2015..
so wats brewing in the pot?
Hehehehe!!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 16, 2014, 22:12

Bro Desray, 3 more months till feb 2015..
so wats brewing in the pot?
Hehehehe!!

I have no idea what pete is talking...


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Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on November 16, 2014, 22:15
Oh no!!! Wat is happening then? Pls dont tell me Pete's account has been hacked into!!
Been seeing lots of spambots posting recently..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on November 16, 2014, 22:16
Bro Des

Maybe after one or two more people get Atmos we can start a "knowledge base" kind of thread for Atmos / Auro...

For now, my money is on Atmos... but someone told me more will be know in Feb...

For Cash:

Feb, the "water will lower and the stone will be revealed" and I leave it to the ever pleasant and politically correct Mod Des to help you explain that.... :)

pete, is it u posting??
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 16, 2014, 23:09
pete, is it u posting??
Some whispers, AVS folks also talked... maybe it's the Denon 7200 or the new HDCP 2.2 chips coming online...

Atmos is something that is evolving... I feel like the old HD DVD vs Blu Ray days and I don't like it... so I might bear with things for a while.
ISSE is time for some auditions, but from my few days spent with Atmos, I think it will be something I can use... besides I have already installed the four AG speakers.

And using the DSU was quite nice.

I really wish we can see what's the deal with Auro and DTS-UHD too.

As for explaining, I meant the Chinese idiom... not the Feb part...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on November 16, 2014, 23:14
Oh... okie.. i think Auro will take the cup..
but thats my opinion..
atmos not involving n not much support from producers at the moment..
its only my honest opinion..
dont get me wrong here..
; )
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 16, 2014, 23:18
One more thing about Atmos..

When there's a busy soundtrack, like Transformers, where there is plenty of explosions, and plenty of noise from each surround, it's not the ideal track... I think bro Des has said it, and I will too...

I tried Resident Evil 1-4, and Desray's old Demo disc - Rules of Engagement, in "only" DD and it was very immersive. We used it during the demo too, and we were plunged into the forests of Vietnam...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on November 16, 2014, 23:20
Yup... if the track can do dd+ , i would sure enjoy it..
being on a legacy avr...
; )
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 20, 2014, 23:09
S & V get their own Atmos setup:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/atmos-here-sound-visions-first-foray-object-based-sound

Here is an interesting observation:
Quote
One interesting note: Noisy, bright movies like Age of Extinction tend to make me grope for my processor’s treble-taming Re-EQ mode or equivalent; Denon’s Cinema EQ imposes a mild down-tilt over the uppermost two octaves or so, no more than perhaps 4 decibels at 20 kilohertz (and much less at 10 kHz). As the gnashing of machines and blowing-up of stuff ground on, my ears thanked Cinema EQ again and again—but the Atmos effects seemed slightly less pronounced with this feature turned on; flyovers/-arounds were a bit less dramatic and the ambient bubble less distinct and one-piece. From this, I suppose that Cinema EQ is applied to all channels including the height outputs (red-face me if I’m wrong). Since the height modules must bounce off of a reflective ceiling, and reflectivity of sound increases with frequency, less high-frequency content will mean fewer reflections.

I suspect that the higher frequencies need a boost since they will be dilated once they bounce off a ceiling.. Perhaps that's why ceiling speakers might do better?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 21, 2014, 11:06

S & V get their own Atmos setup:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/atmos-here-sound-visions-first-foray-object-based-sound

Here is an interesting observation:
I suspect that the higher frequencies need a boost since they will be dilated once they bounce off a ceiling.. Perhaps that's why ceiling speakers might do better?

The issue here is audyssey not coming out to clarify what goes on behind the scene during the calibration process. It leaves many reviewers wondering why the height and the atmos elevated speakers behaved the way it is. I m always curious what has been changed, If any to the latest AVR with Dolby Atmos.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on November 21, 2014, 16:15
Sorry, off topic a little. What will you guys look out for when getting ceiling mounted bookshelf/satellite speakers for Atmos setup?
Any minimum/maximum driver size preference or recommended frequency response range?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 21, 2014, 16:52
As mentioned in my other thread, get speaker with wide dispersion for ceiling or height speakers...as for atmos elevated speaker module, get any satellite or bookshelf speakers with drivers of more than 3" and higher with high sensitivity for easy to drive...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on November 21, 2014, 17:43
As mentioned in my other thread, get speaker with wide dispersion for ceiling or height speakers...as for atmos elevated speaker module, get any satellite or bookshelf speakers with drivers of more than 3" and higher with high sensitivity for easy to drive...

do you think the wide dispersion part can be compensated by using .4 instead of .2 since having a pair more will increase the coverage thus reducing the range needed?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 21, 2014, 17:49
do you think the wide dispersion part can be compensated by using .4 instead of .2 since having a pair more will increase the coverage thus reducing the range needed?
Bro what speaker are you trying to use?
Having read bro desray and my suggestions on the type of speaker, so is there some speaker you have that is under 3" or doesn't have a wide dispersion that you are trying to shoehorn here?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 21, 2014, 17:56
do you think the wide dispersion part can be compensated by using .4 instead of .2 since having a pair more will increase the coverage thus reducing the range needed?

Whether 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, it really depends on the room and your MLP...for me, whenever possible, try as far as possible to implement a .4 setup...as mentioned, it DOES NOT need to be two pairs of ceiling speakers, you can use your existing height speakers from the ProLogic IIz Ht and DTS Neo:X "era" and use another pair of speakers to be placed at the surround back position for the Atmos experience. This is my CURRENT speaker setup and it works great.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 21, 2014, 18:06
+1

I think the companies trying to advertise themselves as "Atmos Enabled" may be trying to make a fast buck..

The idea is to use something that envelops the MLP, and give that sensation of coming from all around and high up - the additional dimension...

Some guidelines:

Dolby Atmos Home Theater Installation Guidelines states: >>The ideal ceiling height is between 8 and 12 feet<< for Dolby Atmos enabled speakers. Or about 2x the height of the listener's ear.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on November 21, 2014, 19:04
saw someone selling the JBL SCS200.5 speakers in Sales thread. Very tempted to use 4 of those satellites as ceiling speakers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 21, 2014, 19:57
saw someone selling the JBL SCS200.5 speakers in Sales thread. Very tempted to use 4 of those satellites as ceiling speakers.
I think the jury is still not out on what works..
But the basic principles we have posted will be a guide.
Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on November 21, 2014, 20:22
I think the jury is still not out on what works..
But the basic principles we have posted will be a guide.
Cheers

got it. Perhaps should wait a while more for more people to jump in and share their experience.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 21, 2014, 21:19

got it. Perhaps should wait a while more for more people to jump in and share their experience.

Are you going to install any in ceiling speakers, height speakers or atmos elevated speaker setup?


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Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on November 22, 2014, 00:21
current plan in mind is to install 4 satellite speakers on the ceiling shooting down.
I have a pair of front heights about 2ft from the ceiling close to the left and right of my projector screen.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/modenaboi/IMG_20141122_000123_zps23d6a9d0.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/modenaboi/IMG_20141122_000216_zpsbaeed477.jpg)

I have plenty of space on the ceiling to play with ( apart from the light)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t286/modenaboi/IMG_20141122_000355_zps2a39f2f2.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 22, 2014, 09:12
My advice is BEFORE you go drilling holes to mount the satellite speakers on the ceiling, ask yourself this question:

1) What is the height of my ceiling? If the height is within the Dolby white papers specs (which I totally agreed with their observation) 2.4m - 3.6m from floor to ceiling, then you may want to use the satellite speakers as "Atmos-elevated" speakers to try out the "effect"...if it is able to provide you with a "convincing" soundstage - i.e. in a sound bubble. Then you probably don't want to drill holes to the ceiling. It ain't gonna be pretty. Besides, you already have an "untreated" ceiling to take advantage of the reflection approach. Why not give it a try first...that's what I did and I am very satisifed.

2) If you really want to go the ceiling speaker route, then make sure you do not just install it near to the projector screen and call it a day! That's WORSE...getting the speakers up on the ceiling AIN'T just about "getting the speakers up ON THE CEILING", you need to plan and take into consideration where your MLP is...you DO NOT want to place the ceiling speakers too far or too near to the MLP. Read up the Dolby white papers to  have a good sense of optimum ceiling speaker location. So are you prepare to lay those unsightly on the ceiling? Your parents fine with that?

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on November 22, 2014, 09:57
all along for the pass 7 yrs , we have the AG speaker flush in ceiling .
just connected up a new 4100 without relocate any of the speaker position and do up a manual tunning , so anyone interested to find out , if I already have my 4 surround installated high up near ceiling how will it sound if I get a new atmos amp ? do I need 4 speaker on the ceiling ? how can I use reflected sound ? how does it sound if all speaker on ceiling........ and so on.., you can have a feel of it today after 1pm before we re-layout the shop to demo Auro vs Atmos. ;D
bring your disk hor , I only provide the Hardward ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 22, 2014, 10:24
Bro Chaozhoi
DO take note of the angles and avoid speakers that 'beam' directly at you.
Think immersion, hence wide dispersion is a good characteristic.
The idea is not about the sound of some helicopter shooting directly at you or the sound of a leaf floating shouting at you. It's about a balance of being enveloped in sound and knowing there's a third dimension.

Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on November 22, 2014, 13:00
Aesthetic or permission is not an issue. I'll go ahead with Desray's suggestion of trying out reflection method first before drilling anything. Thanks all for the suggestions. Anything else I will ask in the new thread Desray has opened up. 1 more week to ISSE!!!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 23, 2014, 18:05
Bro chaozhoi:
Check out this link for placement tips:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html

Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 30, 2014, 12:58
Some things I observed at the recent isse led me to these conclusions :

- ceiling speakers are quite effective and if it is done at the right height, will give you the immersion. The key word is the right height.
- as for the rest of the placement, that's important too for the whole sound scape.
- the matching of tones is less important as the sound comes from overhead and Audyssey can help
- good dispersion instead of a speaker beaming in a narrow band
- small but adequate sound coverage to about 100-120 hz. There's no need for bass heavy speakers

- as for the up firing Atmos style speakers, if the room is small and those speakers are very close to the MLP you will be distracted by the sound dispersed directly from them as well as from the ceiling

- with the ceiling playing a big role that will be important as the type of ceiling, the height, what it's made of all play a far bigger role than the brand of the speaker

- software: not every movie is made to show off Atmos

Finally Atmos is an enhancement. So it's still as important to settle things like bass, speaker placement and phase to create the whole cinema experience.

The future ahead is very exciting.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on November 30, 2014, 18:10
An interesting video discussion on Atmos:

http://vimeo.com/106033922

(sorry I don't know how to link the video directly..)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 06, 2014, 13:32
Just posting a question here from a pm, so others can contribute too:

I think bro you will need to share more pics, because this suggestion of yours sounds quite unconventional.. and tearing up the ceiling to do this only to find that it's not suitable will not be fun.
Cheers

Quote
For WAF reasons, I'm thinking if I can possibly install my PSB alpha's (as my surrounds) within the false ceiling and have the speakers pointing at side opening of the false ceiling (much like side lights) to reflect off the side walls ?
Obviously it is not ideal, but hoping the Denon Audessey can boost it.  I understand for vibration, i need some reinforcement and rock wool, but other than that, is it 1) feasible? and 2) any other pointers / recommendations?

thanks in advance as always.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on December 06, 2014, 16:07
Just posting a question here from a pm, so others can contribute too:

I think bro you will need to share more pics, because this suggestion of yours sounds quite unconventional.. and tearing up the ceiling to do this only to find that it's not suitable will not be fun.
Cheers


This won't work...you are actually introducing more "problem" after that. Remember that a bookshelf speakers with Audyssey "treating" the Dolby Atmos enabled or even ceiling speakers as a full-range. Can you imagine a built-in tweeter with a driver and the worse if the crossover is not even ideal...A full blown bookshelf speakers would require air to move the sound within the bookshelf enclosure...it is never meant to be designed to be "enclosed" within a false ceiling...that is the reason WHY there is a distinction between an ceiling speaker design versus a bookshelf speaker design...by using it in a way that it ain't design for...I think you get the point.


Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on December 06, 2014, 16:50
This won't work...you are actually introducing more "problem" after that. Remember that a bookshelf speakers with Audyssey "treating" the Dolby Atmos enabled or even ceiling speakers as a full-range. Can you imagine a built-in tweeter with a driver and the worse if the crossover is not even ideal...A full blown bookshelf speakers would require air to move the sound within the bookshelf enclosure...it is never meant to be designed to be "enclosed" within a false ceiling...that is the reason WHY there is a distinction between an ceiling speaker design versus a bookshelf speaker design...by using it in a way that it ain't design for...I think you get the point.

I think he meant mounting his bookshelves speaker on the ceiling and not enclosed inside the ceiling like bro Cash did.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 06, 2014, 17:03
I think he meant mounting his bookshelves speaker on the ceiling and not enclosed inside the ceiling like bro Cash did.
It's quite unclear what the bro meant, so that's why a pic speakers a thousand words...
Mounting a boxed up speaker with a speaker bracket onto the ceiling is possible if one screws it into the hard ceiling, but do make sure there is room to adjust the tilt so the speaker can beam towards the MLP or away.

Ideally if one can mount it onto the ceiling, then do some tests before finalising the position, that will be great.

Atmos is very new, and building in some adjustment capabilities will be better.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on December 06, 2014, 17:16
I think he meant mounting his bookshelves speaker on the ceiling and not enclosed inside the ceiling like bro Cash did.

If this is really the case, then no issue.

But look carefully at the description again...

"For WAF reasons, I'm thinking if I can possibly install my PSB alpha's (as my surrounds) within the false ceiling and have the speakers pointing at side opening of the false ceiling (much like side lights) to reflect off the side walls ?
Obviously it is not ideal, but hoping the Denon Audessey can boost it. I understand for vibration, i need some reinforcement and rock wool, but other than that, is it 1) feasible? and 2) any other pointers / recommendations?

thanks in advance as always."

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: jeetung on December 06, 2014, 23:03
Hi, raising my hand to own the question :)
I will come up with a sketch to illustrate better my proposal, thanks again for all your feedback. 
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: jeetung on December 06, 2014, 23:29
For WAF reasons, I'm thinking if I can possibly install my PSB alpha's (as my surrounds) within the false ceiling and have the speakers pointing at side opening of the false ceiling (much like side lights) to reflect off the side walls ?
Obviously it is not ideal, but hoping the Denon Audessey can boost it. I understand for vibration, i need some reinforcement and rock wool, but other than that, is it 1) feasible? and 2) any other pointers / recommendations?

thanks in advance as always.

Please see attached sketch, what I'm thinking..   *note this is not meant for Atmos... only for surrounds
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/jeetung/ScreenShot2014-12-06at112251pm.png) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/jeetung/media/ScreenShot2014-12-06at112251pm.png.html)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: francis wu on December 07, 2014, 00:29
It's not a good position as you will get a diffused surround!  Wud suggest you get a pair of slim surround stands and place the PSB on each side of your sofa with the speakers firing direct behind your ears' level.  This is the most desired position for the surrounds!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 07, 2014, 00:38
Bro Jeetung:
Now that we 'see' what you mean, I don't think it will work..
I would instead suggest you mount the PSB Alphas on the false ceiling itself.
Otherwise get some Anthony Gallo Micros, which are going for a good deal. Look for econav aka Peng.

Since you are doing some work, it's better to do it right, rather than hoping Audyssey will help. Bear in mind Audyssey is a sophisticated Auto-Eq, and can't help if the speaker is too far off the suggested position.

You might be better off placing the Alphas on top of your side surrounds and point them upwards a la Atmos speakers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: jeetung on December 07, 2014, 01:53
It's not a good position as you will get a diffused surround!  Wud suggest you get a pair of slim surround stands and place the PSB on each side of your sofa with the speakers firing direct behind your ears' level.  This is the most desired position for the surrounds!

Thanks Francis, yes i know they are not ideal, but WAF overruled speaker stands for surrounds... plus place is not that big.. will bump into them... especially with kids.... ( I actually thought surrounds was ok for diffused sound.. that's why i thought up of this crazy idea :p )
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: jeetung on December 07, 2014, 02:09
Bro Jeetung:
Now that we 'see' what you mean, I don't think it will work..
I would instead suggest you mount the PSB Alphas on the false ceiling itself.
Otherwise get some Anthony Gallo Micros, which are going for a good deal. Look for econav aka Peng.

Since you are doing some work, it's better to do it right, rather than hoping Audyssey will help. Bear in mind Audyssey is a sophisticated Auto-Eq, and can't help if the speaker is too far off the suggested position.

You might be better off placing the Alphas on top of your side surrounds and point them upwards a la Atmos speakers.

Thanks Pete, Anthony Gallo Micros are interesting , small enough that ceiling mount could meet WAF... will PM econav (Peng)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on December 07, 2014, 08:17
For WAF reasons, I'm thinking if I can possibly install my PSB alpha's (as my surrounds) within the false ceiling and have the speakers pointing at side opening of the false ceiling (much like side lights) to reflect off the side walls ?
Obviously it is not ideal, but hoping the Denon Audessey can boost it. I understand for vibration, i need some reinforcement and rock wool, but other than that, is it 1) feasible? and 2) any other pointers / recommendations?

thanks in advance as always.

Please see attached sketch, what I'm thinking..   *note this is not meant for Atmos... only for surrounds
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/jeetung/ScreenShot2014-12-06at112251pm.png) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/jeetung/media/ScreenShot2014-12-06at112251pm.png.html)

Very interesting concept sketch you got there...I wouldn't say it won't work but it is NOT advisable to use a full range bookshelf speakers for this interesting unorthodox layout for the reasons stated in my previous post. If WAF is the ONLY thing that is giving you a headache, then AG speakers or equivalent satellite speakers would match your requirement due to its smaller footprint and easier to "cover" not conceal the surround speakers.

BUT the problem that I can foresee with the "change" from  a bookshelf speakers to that of a satellite speakers is the timbre matching of the speaker suite. The reason I mentioned here is because you did not clarify whether the PSB alpha speakers is part of a 5.1 PSB speakers suite? The change in the speakers might have an effect on the overall uniformity of your listening experience...but having say that, it may NOT be a big concern since we are talking about surround speakers rather than the LCR...for that it is more forgiving.

Update: Just saw that small footnotes in your signature...both your LCR are B&W with the exception of surrounds...then I guess changing your surrounds to some other make/model will not screw up the timbre-match (let Audyssey take care of it)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: jeetung on December 07, 2014, 09:51
Good morning ! :)
Yes current LCR are B&W 684s and HTM62.  Am thinking abt 683s and HTM61, for a space 6m x 4m , would that be overkill ? 60/40 HT v music usage.  Am planning to upgrade to Denon X4100W as well.

(Sorry for going off topic)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on December 07, 2014, 10:16
Good morning ! :)
Yes current LCR are B&W 684s and HTM62.  Am thinking abt 683s and HTM61, for a space 6m x 4m , would that be overkill ? 60/40 HT v music usage.  Am planning to upgrade to Denon X4100W as well.

(Sorry for going off topic)

Any reason why you getting X4100W since you are not going for Atmos setup? The legacy setup alone already gave you a headache...so I guess more speakers are out of the question...Anyway...it is worth getting the latest Denon Dolby Atmos enabled AVR and you will get a significant improvement even if you dun install any in-ceiling speakers...one of the key aspects of Atmos is "Object-based"...and the new DSU will certainly help to improve your multi-channel surround HT experience as well.

Placement is important in a HT setup as opposed to a 2-channel stereo. Its not about getting the most expensive gears.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: jeetung on December 07, 2014, 10:56
Hi Desray,
Main reason is x4100w has a phono input (I know I should get a pre-amp) but compromising on equipment gear/clutter ... I'm fine with current 3808 direct input via the phono input ... Although I know in the ears of all the pros here it probably is a no no.

Other reason is the "semi-child proof" of the alu door , x3100w has lots of exposed buttons .... 
Yeah so not very compelling reasons ... But...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on December 07, 2014, 14:09
Hi Desray,
Main reason is x4100w has a phono input (I know I should get a pre-amp) but compromising on equipment gear/clutter ... I'm fine with current 3808 direct input via the phono input ... Although I know in the ears of all the pros here it probably is a no no.

Other reason is the "semi-child proof" of the alu door , x3100w has lots of exposed buttons .... 
Yeah so not very compelling reasons ... But...

Ok.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 08, 2014, 21:12
This is a comparison of Auro vs Atmos:

(http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx114/kurobox/MediaRoom/ScreenShot2014-12-06at43537PM_zps6f0948bf.png)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: vshiong on December 11, 2014, 14:31
Hi

Newbie here.
Just wondering is bose 191 a good atmos ceiling speakers?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 12, 2014, 18:44
guys is it adviseable to use a good powere amp just for the atmos speaker, or just any ordinary amp will do ?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ralfale on December 12, 2014, 19:17
Ordinary ones will do for me.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 12, 2014, 19:20
Ordinary ones will do for me.
Bro your ordinary might be high end for me hahah
Bro how many watts is your amp and brand
Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on December 12, 2014, 19:23
guys is it adviseable to use a good powere amp just for the atmos speaker, or just any ordinary amp will do ?

It would be better to drive your speaker with decent power amp,80w/c min imho,will sound smoother.Provided your external  amp have to be a ht/bypass amp,so that your speakers can be Audessey calibrated when your external amp pre section is bypass..correct me if I'm  wrong.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on December 12, 2014, 19:34
Hi

Newbie here.
Just wondering is bose 191 a good atmos ceiling speakers?

Yes! U may use satellite/in ceilings  speakers but it still depend on how your bose will sound (I have never owned  bose speakers)I'm  using satellite speakers for ceiling ,they sounds better than bookshelf  (not so direct ,sounds more natural).
I haven't  tried  the in-ceilings speakers,so can't  comments.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 12, 2014, 19:42
It would be better to drive your speaker with decent power amp,80w/c min imho,will sound smoother.Provided your external  amp have to be a ht/bypass amp,so that your speakers can be Audessey calibrated when your external amp pre section is bypass..correct me if I'm  wrong.

sometimes i wonder if its worth to get 80w/c just to power the ceiling spks
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ralfale on December 12, 2014, 19:46
I also mean around 80 - 100 wpc. I never tried lower than 80 leh so i can't comment. See my ad in sales thread im also trying to buy a cheapo amp for atmos! Currently using one which peng has kindly t-loan me, 100 wpc more than enough.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 12, 2014, 20:12
I also mean around 80 - 100 wpc. I never tried lower than 80 leh so i can't comment. See my ad in sales thread im also trying to buy a cheapo amp for atmos! Currently using one which peng has kindly t-loan me, 100 wpc more than enough.

ok thanks bro
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on December 12, 2014, 20:16
sometimes i wonder if its worth to get 80w/c just to power the ceiling spks

It all depends on your own demand/requirements.If you think 2 ceiling speakers can give u enough Atmos feel** then just live with it,can still save on cables/speakers/mounting brackets...etc$$.As bro ralfale view is 80-100w/c amp..same as what I'm driving my satellites now with 5200 internal amp,I will just play with my existing  5.1.4 at the moment with a might be intention to pre-out the Center/Surround  LR+FW..this works out 5 external amp..I think xpa5/rotel 1095 fits the spot..End of the day,its u yourself to decide your own setup, your own liking/preferences. Can u show some pics of your setup room/living room for bros here?As different  room has different  acoustic.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 12, 2014, 20:28
It all depends on your own demand/requirements.If you think 2 ceiling speakers can give u enough Atmos feel** then just live with it,can still save on cables/speakers/mounting brackets...etc$$.As bro ralfale view is 80-100w/c amp..same as what I'm driving my satellites now with 5200 internal amp,I will just play with my existing  5.1.4 at the moment with a might be intention to pre-out the Center/Surround  LR+FW..this works out 5 external amp..I think xpa5/rotel 1095 fits the spot..End of the day,its u yourself to decide your own setup, your own liking/preferences. Can u show some pics of your setup room/living room for bros here?As different  room has different  acoustic.

Bro still not setup proper, now festive season very busy, i still have not decides/postion to place my surround due to space constrain, so no picture yet hahaha
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on December 13, 2014, 00:09
Bro still not setup proper, now festive season very busy, i still have not decides/postion to place my surround due to space constrain, so no picture yet hahaha

I see,take  your time,work is more important  but dont neglect your avr,remember that you have 7 days  to exchange 1 for 1 if you found out any bad issues,thats why its important not to exceed 7 days to finalised  your setup..
Hope everything works fine.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 13, 2014, 00:17
Bro still not setup proper, now festive season very busy, i still have not decides/postion to place my surround due to space constrain, so no picture yet hahaha

IMO the position is very important, so take your time to sit down, experiment with the various position before you screw them in...

I think having speakers on or in the ceiling which can swivel will be very useful, especially if you may change the MLP..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 13, 2014, 00:19
sometimes i wonder if its worth to get 80w/c just to power the ceiling spks

Power is cheap... 4 ceiling speakers spreads the sound nicely..
If you don't believe that bring your 4100 over and we can use it with my Atmos setup...

Even an old AV amp with 7.1 inputs will work.. but how well and the sound... YMMV....
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 13, 2014, 00:27
I see,take  your time,work is more important  but dont neglect your avr,remember that you have 7 days  to exchange 1 for 1 if you found out any bad issues,thats why its important not to exceed 7 days to finalised  your setup..
Hope everything works fine.

cfm cannot do it in 7 days, cfm the set is ok, so can take my time
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 13, 2014, 00:30
Power is cheap... 4 ceiling speakers spreads the sound nicely..
If you don't believe that bring your 4100 over and we can use it with my Atmos setup...

Even an old AV amp with 7.1 inputs will work.. but how well and the sound... YMMV....

bro your set up all professional type, skali hear liao no matter how i setup also cannot come close to yours
than i will be vey disappointed. hahaha
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Yummyyumi on December 13, 2014, 15:29
I bought the emotiva xpa 3 to power my LCR (B&W) and the pioneer LX58 AVR (upgraded to Amos) to power the sub and surround (Tannoy) and TOP FRONT (Anthony Gallo). So it's 5.1.2.

I got extra 2 x anthony gallo sitting and unpack waiting to integrate to my 5.1.4... Just need to get approval from my Mrs first on the drilling and exposed wiring to install ok the TOP REAR.

Thanks Pete for the error.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 13, 2014, 16:25
Just sharing some terms to avoid confusion:

Front Heights
: used in DTS Neo X, the legacy DPLLz and Audyssey DSX

Front Wides are used in DTS Neo X and Audyssey DSX

Top Front, Top Middle and Top Rears are used for the ceiling speakers in Atmos

VOG : Voice of God in the middle above the MLP for Auro

Front Heights, Side Height, and Rear Heights are terms used in Auro...
http://www.datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/speaker-tech-guide.pdf (http://www.datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/speaker-tech-guide.pdf)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on December 13, 2014, 17:13
I bought the emotiva xpa 3 to power my LCR (B&W) and the pioneer LX58 AVR (upgraded to Amos) to power the sub and surround (Tannoy) and TOP FRONT (Anthony Gallo). So it's 5.1.2.

I got extra 2 x anthony gallo sitting and unpack waiting to integrate to my 5.1.4... Just need to get approval from my Mrs first on the drilling and exposed wiring to install ok the TOP REAR.

Thanks Pete for the error.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

bro how much for the emotiva xpa 3, you also stay in pasir ris ?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Yummyyumi on December 14, 2014, 22:52

bro how much for the emotiva xpa 3, you also stay in pasir ris ?

Hi spell.

Yes I stay in PSR as well.

Bought at USD 799 before less 10%.

Should have gotten the XPA 5 instead... If I needed the extra 2 channel... It's there..





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 14, 2014, 23:06
Atmos is a real bonus for sales ..
More speakers, amplifiers and miles of cables :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: AB Chan on December 17, 2014, 10:57
Just come to know JBL has a "professionally calibrated" 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos system setup available for audition now at their showroom at #02-17/18 Raffles Hotel Shopping Arcade, North Bridge Rd.

Just wondering how a "professionally calibrated" system would sound like. Anyone been there?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: matix on December 21, 2014, 16:45
More or less pulling trigger on Speakercraft soon.  There are so many models to choose from  ???... For Atmos setup for only one golden seat, is it better to have 4 X Aim series speakers tilting towards the MLP, or to get 4 X Aim Wide speakers to achieve wide dispersion effect?

http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-speakers/in-ceiling/aim-wide?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=41 (http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-speakers/in-ceiling/aim-wide?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=41)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: AB Chan on December 21, 2014, 22:25
How much are those speakercraft aim-wide speakers?

According to Dolby, ceiling speakers with wide dispersion angle of 90 deg (45 deg from vertical) or more from 100-10KHz  can point straight down. If dispersion is narrow, angle them or use models with adjustable angle tweeters. However, I guess this is only a guideline and would depend on your MLP and the location and distance between the ceiling speakers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 21, 2014, 22:49
More or less pulling trigger on Speakercraft soon.  There are so many models to choose from  ???... For Atmos setup for only one golden seat, is it better to have 4 X Aim series speakers tilting towards the MLP, or to get 4 X Aim Wide speakers to achieve wide dispersion effect?

http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-speakers/in-ceiling/aim-wide?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=41 (http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-speakers/in-ceiling/aim-wide?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_sc.tpl&product_id=45&category_id=41)
Given that it's new technology, a bit of flexibility is good, so to be able to direct the tweeter / speaker either downwards or at the MLP is a good idea..
Some models of in ceiling speakers can do that..
Also, that will help if you move the MLP..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: matix on December 22, 2014, 10:12
How much are those speakercraft aim-wide speakers?

 

About US$200 from various sellers in Amazon... 
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on December 23, 2014, 11:27
I intend (plan) to setup 7.2.1 in near future (maybe early next year).
so when read this website:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-2-setups.html

There are 3 positions for ceiling surround (65, 80 and 100) deg
I wonder how to measure and which one should I follow?
I thought exactly above listening position is zero deg?

hear your advise soon
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 23, 2014, 11:35
The rule of thumb for ceiling speakers is to be between 35 to 55 degrees from the perpendicular.

I am assuming you are installing Top Middle speakers for a 7.2.1 system?

Then they should be pretty close to the perpendicular, i.e. above your MLP.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on December 23, 2014, 11:46
I will show u how i do it once i am back in singapore tonite.
I will take pictures n post it here.
pretty simple procedure..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on December 23, 2014, 12:24
I am assuming you are installing Top Middle speakers for a 7.2.1 system?
Then they should be pretty close to the perpendicular, i.e. above your MLP.
yap..
Surely left and right ceiling spk must be in line but... Err... what is MLP?  ???
Currently, all my surround speakers are mounted on the wall 180cm up from the laminated floor and
all of them are tilted down 30 deg.
Since I want to adopt ceiling surround meaning all back and middle surround height must be even lower huh?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 23, 2014, 13:45
yap..
Surely left and right ceiling spk must be in line but... Err... what is MLP?  ???
Currently, all my surround speakers are mounted on the wall 180cm up from the laminated floor and
all of them are tilted down 30 deg.
Since I want to adopt ceiling surround meaning all back and middle surround height must be even lower huh?


MLP = Main Listening Position
For a totally immersive experience, the 7.1 surrounds should be around your ear level when you are seated. Then the Atmos speakers form a higher level of sound immersion.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on December 23, 2014, 21:44
I will show u how i do it once i am back in singapore tonite.
I will take pictures n post it here.
pretty simple procedure..

as promised, these is how i did my setup of atmos speakers..
pictures in next post..
of course u need to do it for the left n right positions above your front left n front right speakers.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on December 23, 2014, 21:45
1) for getting the angle right!!

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/20141223_213456.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/20141223_213456.jpg.html)

2) level meter to keep it perpendicular..

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/20141223_213556.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/20141223_213556.jpg.html)

3) metal measuring tape extended to point to ceiling spot to drill.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/20141223_213845.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/20141223_213845.jpg.html)

thats all thats needed.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: francis wu on December 23, 2014, 21:54
Frankly, I don't get what you are trying to show!  Sorry ??? ::) :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on December 23, 2014, 21:57
I intend (plan) to setup 7.2.1 in near future (maybe early next year).
so when read this website:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-2-setups.html

There are 3 positions for ceiling surround (65, 80 and 100) deg
I wonder how to measure and which one should I follow?
I thought exactly above listening position is zero deg?

hear your advise soon


bro whitesox wanted to know how to get the angles right for the ceiling installation...
so, this is how i did it for myself..
hehehe!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 23, 2014, 22:28
My installer used one of these :
http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=GLM%2080
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on December 23, 2014, 22:38
yes, laser pointer is very accurate.
but i jus like to tinker with what i have at home.
its very cumbersome n tiring to use my method too, but, hell...
i enjoyed every minute of it!
jus looking at my own work done gives me satisfaction that i can still do these stuff.
because when i get really old n eyesight fails, muscle degenarate n all that stuff with old age,
i can enjoy what i can do now.
must learn to relish my whatever youth left in me.
hehehehe!
 ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on December 24, 2014, 09:05
Frankly, I don't get what you are trying to show!  Sorry ??? ::) :)

Appreciated for sharing but I am also confused
 ???
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 01, 2015, 11:23
Another entry into ceiling mounted speakers for Atmos:
http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/custom_installed_speakers/ci_series/speaker/Ci200RR/index.html (http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/custom_installed_speakers/ci_series/speaker/Ci200RR/index.html)


The parts in red and bold will apply to most ceiling mounted speakers...

Quote
By  Essential Install Editors, May 01, 2014   
 Q. What do you feel are the key features that differentiate the Ci200RR-THX from other in-ceiling units on the marketplace?  Dr. Jack Oclee-Brown:
 
 The Ci200RR-THX (http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/custom_installed_speakers/ci_series/speaker/Ci200RR/index.html) is based around our latest Uni-Q driver technology. The Uni-Q uses a tweeter placed at the acoustic centre of the bass/midrange driver. Using this configuration we can make both the acoustic centre and the dispersion of the tweeter and woofer appear the same. The result is that once you add a crossover, it is almost impossible to tell that the sound is coming from two drivers. Normal systems suffer from interference because of the two separated drivers.
 For a ceiling speaker this is particularly important because of the orientation of the speaker. For use in a home theatre, the Ci200RR-THX should be placed in the ceiling as close to the point above the front edge of the screen as possible, because of the wide off axis response, it will sound like the audio is coming from the screen. While this is true for all KEF (http://www.kef.com/html/gb/) Uni-Q speakers, with the Ci200RR-THX, special attention has been paid so that this is effective even in the largest theatre rooms.
 
 Q. The ‘sweet spot’ of listening with the Ci200RR-THX is billed as very wide– how has this been managed?
 A. With a traditional loudspeaker the sound becomes very directional at the crossover between the tweeter and the woofer. With a Uni-Q this problem is eliminated. In addition, the Ci200RR-THX utilises a  large 1.5in tweeter with one of our most recent ‘tangerine’ waveguide  designs which helps to keep the dispersion of the treble very wide.  Overall the dispersion is more consistent than a traditional loudspeaker, which means that you get good sound over a wider coverage area.
 
 Q. What challenges were there in attaining THX ULTRA2 certification?
 A. One of the most challenging parts of the ULTRA2 certification is the output level requirement. THX specifies a high maximum output level that can be quite tricky to achieve. In the Ci200RR-THX the large tweeter and the large voice coil on the woofer help us to hit this specification. Both of these features are also critical in achieving low levels of dynamic compression.
 
 Q. Why is THX ULTRA2 Certification important for KEF?
 A. KEF spent significant engineering and monetary resources, to design and build a speaker capable of being used as a LCR in very large theatre rooms - where the viewing distance could be greater than 4 meters and the cubic volume could be over 85m3 (3000ft3). This also required more expense on a larger motor structure (magnet) than is found in the typical in-ceiling speaker. Being one of the few in-ceiling speakers to achieve THX ULTRA2 Certification reinforces this point, and gives the end-user comfort in knowing their theatre will exceed expectations.
 
 Q. How easy is the speaker to install?
 A. The Ci200RR-THX uses KEF’s UTB (Ultra-Thin Bezel) and magnetic grille. So all you see around the grille is a very thin white bezel edge that can be painted to match the ceiling colour. Once the hole has been cut and the wire run to the location, installation of the speaker takes less than two minutes. All it takes is tightening four dog-leg mounting screws and then the grille magnetically snaps into place.
 
 Q. Can an in-ceiling speaker ever be as good as free-stander?
 A. The latest in-ceiling loudspeakers are extremely good and can offer performance that is, in many cases, as good as equivalently priced floor-standing loudspeakers. Acoustically there are advantages in both types of design. For example, with a floor-standing loudspeaker it  is normally the case that the physical position will be better, most likely it will be placed directly in-front of the listener.  On the other hand, an in-wall or in-ceiling mounting results in a  better acoustic loading for the driver. However, the installation is absolutely critical to getting the best performance from a wall mounted loudspeaker. It is important that the walls and ceilings are built as sturdily as possible to avoid vibration, and that the rear cavities behind the loudspeakers are well proportioned and filled with acoustical damping material. For ideal bass response with the Ci200RR-THX, we recommend a rear volume of 20 litres or more, but it can be used in cavities as small as 10 litres.
 (http://www.cepro.com/images/uploads/Ci200RR_Lifestyle_Shot.jpg)
 The Ci200RR-THX
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 05, 2015, 20:27
An interesting post by an early adopter of Atmos, who feels that 99% of the time the Atmos speakers aren't doing much..

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-570.html#post30470442
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on January 05, 2015, 20:42
An interesting post by an early adopter of Atmos, who feels that 99% of the time the Atmos speakers aren't doing much..

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1574386-official-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version-570.html#post30470442

I couldn't agreed more than the poster...I will give me 2 cts worth in due course.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: dXter on January 07, 2015, 09:21
Your atmos speakers? :D
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-samsung-unveils-new-360-degree-wireless-audio-speakers?utm_source=forum&utm_medium=suggested%2Bread&utm_campaign=Samsung%2Bunveils%2Bnew%2B360-degree%2Bwireless%2Baudio%2Bspeakers (http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-samsung-unveils-new-360-degree-wireless-audio-speakers?utm_source=forum&utm_medium=suggested%2Bread&utm_campaign=Samsung%2Bunveils%2Bnew%2B360-degree%2Bwireless%2Baudio%2Bspeakers)

(http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/files/img/2015/01/samsung_wam_hang.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: DizzyD on January 13, 2015, 21:58
anyone considered these orb speakers and have bought them for atmos?

http://www.orbaudio.com/

cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on January 14, 2015, 13:25
Bro may i ask if the Mirage Nanosat Prestige speakers suitable for Atmos ceiling mounted, coz i don't want to install and end up not good, thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on January 14, 2015, 15:04
Bro may i ask if the Mirage Nanosat Prestige speakers suitable for Atmos ceiling mounted, coz i don't want to install and end up not good, thanks

Bro spells,if u don't try u will never know how it sounds or whether it match your system,its part of trial n error especially in HT/Stereo.For me I did try using different speakers for ceiling atmos but my final choice was the Teac Satellites,it sounds good to me.
Cheers!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on January 14, 2015, 15:17
Bro spells,if u don't try u will never know how it sounds or whether it match your system,its part of trial n error especially in HT/Stereo.For me I did try using different speakers for ceiling atmos but my final choice was the Teac Satellites,it sounds good to me.
Cheers!
The drilling already a big headach, because different spks have different bracket, imagine if i have to drill 2 to 3 times my wife will murder me hahah
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on January 14, 2015, 16:56
The drilling already a big headach, because different spks have different bracket, imagine if i have to drill 2 to 3 times my wife will murder me hahah

No worries bro!
After drilling will have better sound effect...lol
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on January 14, 2015, 21:10
No worries bro!
After drilling will have better sound effect...lol

hahaha drilling in the theater room not the bed room hahaha
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on January 14, 2015, 22:59
hahaha drilling in the theater room not the bed room hahaha

Aiyo spell...lol...dirty you!
Back to topic...seriously you hv to try then you will know how the speaker sounds
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on February 15, 2015, 13:15
Was paid a visit by the Krix sales rep on Friday.

Krix started out as a small Australian speaker manufacturer but as fate would have it, he sold a pair of speakers to a manager of a cinema and was asked to see if he could upgrade the sound system in the cinema. Now Krix is used in a number of cinemas across Australia.

Kris has a range of speakers which are designed for "Home Cinemas" which are basically the same stuff they use for commercial cinemas but customized for home installs.

So anyway the guy showed me the Krix Atmospherix AS20 which looked ideal for Atmos use.

http://www.krix.com.au/atmospherixa20.html
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: TEINsports on March 10, 2015, 15:20
Hi pete,would u like to post your whole system/gears in details (PC/SC/RCA/DISTRIBUTOR/STANDS..etc)with pics in full details like I did? I think most of our bros here will be very interested to know what is considered as 'Not Budget' and what is regarded as' Budget' from all your posting.Just to named a few so called 'Budget' speakers by you:::Deftech /Usher/Monitor Audio..etc.Not that Im using Deftech n Usher makes me feel lousy as regarded as 'Budget' but it seems to me and many bros here that I won't named have the same feedback that what you're using is always 'Good' and what others is using is only 'Budget' one . There's many bros here that I went to their hse demo which is far more above my expectation in performance and the cost that they paid for $50k-$200k,they never like to pin point and rate what others is using as 'Budget'.If you can do us bros here to list out your gears in 'Details' n pics to clear our doubts,that will be very nice of you.
As for bros who ever been to your home demo like myself,*Why nobody put reviews and comments on your system?*Why bros who went to bro Desray and bro Cash and my hse put in reviews?
Since you have alot of time posting/replying to all kind of threads here,spent a moment and think about what is the 'Why' all about...you will know,everybody knows.

*Bro Desray!  If you think I have crossed my line,please delete.
I hereby apologise to anyone that feel offended by my posting.But Im that kind of person like bro Cash,what is right will be right/what is wrong will be wrong.Good one get Compliments/Bad one deserved Comments.
Cheers!


I think you have misunderstood Pete's post. His 'budget' was meant as a noun/verb, not adjective.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/budget?s=t
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 10, 2015, 20:50

As for bros who ever been to your home demo like myself,*Why nobody put reviews and comments on your system?*Why bros who went to bro Desray and bro Cash and my hse put in reviews?


Bro joagib, since no one is giving any post-demo comments about Pete's HT setup, perhaps you can start the ball rolling? Be frank, how do you feel? good means good and bad means bad...I'm sure Pete is fine with it. Share your experience with everyone here about your visit. :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on March 10, 2015, 23:43
Bro joagib, since no one is giving any post-demo comments about Pete's HT setup, perhaps you can start the ball rolling? Be frank, how do you feel? good means good and bad means bad...I'm sure Pete is fine with it. Share your experience with everyone here about your visit. :)

Bro Desray! Sorry that I will have to disappoint you as the 90 mins final whistle has been blown and I dont see a point for me to keep the ball rolling on.I will delete all my posting regarding this match and move forward.Those postings from bro pete, let him decide whether he wants to delete or not.
Cheers!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 11, 2015, 00:17
My intentions are to share, and this is all I will keep of the exchanges:

"And whenever I let members of the forum come over I don't expect them to say nice things.
Each person has their own views, budgets and preferences.
I am sorry ours do not align."

To each his own, and I prefer to enjoy sharing and reading than spend time fighting.

In any case, I learnt something important, that sometimes what we intend or say, even with good intentions, can be misconstrued or simply viewed negatively.



Peace out.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on March 13, 2015, 16:45
Reflective/Ceiling/Wall type of Atmos speaker being introduce.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-audio-video-news/115474-xtz-sound-tackles-immersive-sound-its-new-cinema-series-s2-atmosphere-speaker.html

(http://www.hometheatershack.com/news/s2a.png)

Quote
The primary function of the Atmosphere S2 is to handle height-channel audio found in Immersive Sound. Dolby Atmos (along with DTS-X and Auro 3D) has captured the attention of enthusiasts, and speaker manufacturers are quickly responding with specialized product solutions in the form of add-on modules for existing speakers and in-ceiling speakers. The S2 is a blend of both, offering owners a module and ceiling option wrapped-up in one unit.

Quote
When placed on top of a Cinema M6 bookshelf speaker, the S2 is angled to reflect sound off the ceiling of a room to create the illusion of sound coming from above. The bottom of the cabinet also contains two keyhole brackets that enable the speaker to be physically mounted on a wall or ceiling; the ceiling mounting option is recommended for the best audio experience.

Quote
The speaker’s driver topology is a coaxial dome/woofer design where the 5.25-inch coated paper woofer acts as a wave guide for a 16mm soft-dome tweeter. The S2 has a nominal impedance of 4 ohms, and a decently power hungry sensitivity of 86 dB. XTZ reports that the speaker’s frequency response (150 Hz -25 kHz) roughly extends down to 120 Hz when measured in-room.

(http://www.hometheatershack.com/news/s2b.png)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 14, 2015, 17:49
Yes...saw this new player in the market. The brand sound kinda weird though. But the engineering behind it seems sound. Only if I can get a pair to do a review.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sq13z on March 14, 2015, 20:41
Will using the AG diva/micro work if they are placed on the front and surround speakers and angle towards the ceiling to reflect the sound?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 14, 2015, 21:04
Will using the AG diva/micro work if they are placed on the front and surround speakers and angle towards the ceiling to reflect the sound?
It's not impossible but...
That would defeat the purpose of using these speakers... you can use a large variety of speakers bouncing upwards to get this reflected sound.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 14, 2015, 22:25
It's not impossible but...
That would defeat the purpose of using these speakers... you can use a large variety of speakers bouncing upwards to get this reflected sound.
That's not true, I used to think that any bookshelf spks can be used to reflect sound. But in reality, the crossover and the highs required for the tweeter to reproduce that height effect is not possible for normal bookshelf spks. U need spks with directivity like the coaxial driver or the uni-q driver.

Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 12, 2015, 19:16
I would like to thank the bass guru for allowing me to experience what I consider to be the best surround / bass experience I have ever had thus far...
With his permission, I have posted my views here:


http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2015/04/the-bass-gurus-den-visiting-home-of.html (http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2015/04/the-bass-gurus-den-visiting-home-of.html)

Thanks again Jag for the sonic tidal wave, and I have learn a lot from you.

And that automation system of yours, superb, plus the nice decor... the icing on the cake!

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on April 12, 2015, 19:57
The left and right speakers are actually Martin Logan Ethos, rather than the ESLs. No doubt that the Ethos are extremely good. Paring up with the Motif X center and Motion 4s rounds up the setup.

The treble from the folded motion ribbon tweeters are clear and crisp without the harshness.

Great article nonetheless. I would welcome folks who are interested for a listen.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kenshin07 on April 12, 2015, 21:31
Hi Jag
Very nice and solid setup. :)

Pete,
Glad my demo disc can be useful. Haha...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 12, 2015, 21:56
Hi Jag
Very nice and solid setup. :)

Pete,
Glad my demo disc can be useful. Haha...

Yeah, good stuff, we will make another soon... I have new discs to share bro...

I decided on an increase of +2db... +4 was a bit too hot for me :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 13, 2015, 10:47
Btw bro jag :
Also try Daredevil- the scene in the hospital when he discovers he is blind as a child ... Good directional play and space too
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on April 18, 2015, 10:37
Dolby Atmos making its foray into the PC gaming...first one, STAR WARS!

Not really a fan but here's the article should anyone wanna find out more: http://stevivor.com/2015/04/star-wars-battlefront-will-be-the-first-dolby-atmos-supported-game-but-only-on-pc/
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: DJQ on April 18, 2015, 15:22
huh. PC? great, then need to spend $$$ on Atmos ready sound card? haha. HDMI to AVR woah. immersive.  :o
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 26, 2015, 12:35
I just found another two discs to show off the DSU function :

Judge Dredd has very solid use of the surrounds and ceiling speakers.

Black Hawk Down

If your speakers are set up correctly when Josh Harnett is shot at with a RPG, the round goes from the front centre to the left but it's free from the speaker and seems to pass in front of the left surround and continues to the rear.

Impressive.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 24, 2015, 19:47
Bros
Any idea where I can get a laser angle measurement device?

Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: bluepill193 on December 07, 2015, 17:31
While awaiting Desray's review of the Elac atmos module, I am also procuring AG A'diva se speakers and kiv use them as ceiling spkrs, to achieve 7.1.4 config. Reading up on placement, while it's clearly stated that height should be 2-3x listening height, and 2 speakers will be in front and 2 speakers will be behind the MLP, I can't find anything on how far behind/in front, and how far to the side?

Also, going by Dolby recommendation of 35 degrees to 55 degrees to MLP, the speakers will end up farther away than my main front L/R, because my ceiling height is 2.8m from my ears (seated).

How do you guys decide on positioning? It will be a b***h to re-drill ceiling if position not good...

Also, are the AGs considered wide dispersion spkrs, such that they can be placed facing downwards and not tilted to MLP?

Appreciate if bros can comment, especially if you have experience with the AGs as ceiling speakers. Thanks!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on December 07, 2015, 17:57
While awaiting Desray's review of the Elac atmos module, I am also procuring AG A'diva se speakers and kiv use them as ceiling spkrs, to achieve 7.1.4 config. Reading up on placement, while it's clearly stated that height should be 2-3x listening height, and 2 speakers will be in front and 2 speakers will be behind the MLP, I can't find anything on how far behind/in front, and how far to the side?

Also, going by Dolby recommendation of 35 degrees to 55 degrees to MLP, the speakers will end up farther away than my main front L/R, because my ceiling height is 2.8m from my ears (seated).

How do you guys decide on positioning? It will be a b***h to re-drill ceiling if position not good...

Also, are the AGs considered wide dispersion spkrs, such that they can be placed facing downwards and not tilted to MLP?

Appreciate if bros can comment, especially if you have experience with the AGs as ceiling speakers. Thanks!
Pm me if you would like listen to AG Micro SE, I'm using them as Atmos, I didn't went for the standard configuration. If you like it, you can ask Nicholas to do a dry run for you.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 07, 2015, 22:18
The AG speakers are quite flexible, so you can point them at your MLP or downwards.
Dolby provides a guide not a hard & fast rule... cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: bluepill193 on December 09, 2015, 17:01
Bro pete I see in the pic of your setup on your blog, your AGs are pointed downwards with no/very little angulation... I suppose it works well for your system/room?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 09, 2015, 18:18
My ceiling speakers are angled towards the MLP actually.  But wide dispersion speakers allow flexibility in positioning.
The guidelines provided by Dolby are just that - guidelines..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: hanger_shawn on January 12, 2016, 18:50
I am using 4x mirage nano sat prestige will good result , due to its wide disperation and woofer /tweeter firing straight down when mounted on celing !

A better choice then my previous definitive tech pro800 .

Haha
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 12, 2016, 22:46
Atmos, DTS:X, Auro all not the same placement guidelines.
So I prepared to use those swivel type brackets for flexibility and plan to mount near the 4 ceiling corners of my small room when the time come.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 12, 2016, 23:18
Given the current uncertainty over setups, having a bit of built in flexibility is a good thing..
Either by being about to shift the position of the speakers or at least be able to point them at different angles..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joamonte on January 14, 2016, 11:42
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047PPR2A?psc=1

Anyone tried this for the ceiling speaker?

Seem quite suitable for the purposes
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on January 14, 2016, 11:47
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0047PPR2A?psc=1
Anyone tried this for the ceiling speaker?
Seem quite suitable for the purposes
This one has only pivoting/rotating tweeter. 

I'm using this one : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NDICZK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
Can pivot/rotate both woofer & tweeter.
Yet to actually try out as just install into the ceiling & the house till now still not TOP yet  :'(
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joamonte on January 14, 2016, 11:56
This one has only pivoting/rotating tweeter. 

I'm using this one : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004NDICZK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00
Can pivot/rotate both woofer & tweeter.
Yet to actually try out as just install into the ceiling & the house till now still not TOP yet  :'(

Thanks , have you hook up and listen? 3 times more expensive than the 1st one.

It seem this one don't ship to Singapore leh...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on January 14, 2016, 11:59
Thanks , have you hook up and listen? 3 times more expensive than the 1st one.
It seem this one don't ship to Singapore leh...

Not yet lah.
Just install up onto ceiling at the new place.
All eqpts still at current place.

I ship to US address then get them to send over to SGP (can't remember I use which agent, maybe 65DaiGou I think).
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joamonte on January 14, 2016, 12:11
Not yet lah.
Just install up onto ceiling at the new place.
All eqpts still at current place.

I ship to US address then get them to send over to SGP (can't remember I use which agent, maybe 65DaiGou I think).

Check pm bro
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Count on January 14, 2016, 12:54
Wonder if these Monoprice speakers are suitable?

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4103
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 15, 2016, 12:03
IMO, the key features that you want are:


Point source
Wide dispersion
Able to handle higher frequencies - bass will be handled by subs


Nice features (bonus):


Able to direct the speakers, esp the tweeter
Flexible mounting
Light weight
Same voicing as your fronts / centres
Easy to drive.





Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on January 15, 2016, 12:08
I would put timbre matched as the TOP requirement. There are movies that steer sound objects from ear level to overhead. Real immersion only happens when the sonic landscape is truly seamless and object pans smoothly overhead.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 27, 2016, 10:16
There is consolidation of speaker positions amongst the various formats and we may see more clear guidelines on placing those Top speakers once DTS-X releases their long awaited format.


So if bros can wait, the second quarter is a time to fix up those speakers..


I suspect that there will be some kind of universal speaker position eventually.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 27, 2016, 15:43
Last weekend I just hired 2 Bangla to help me drill 16 ceiling holes and poke 8 holes in my L-box.
Fixed the 4 sets of swiveling speaker brackets and run the wiring 1st.
Using Belden 1307a type; 16awg.
Also reposition my surround speakers 6 inches lower as to differentiate between upper and low level.
Now only left the AVR not yet purchase..  ;D


Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: bluepill193 on January 27, 2016, 15:56
How did u hire the bangla, thru id firm? And how much did u pay them?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on January 27, 2016, 16:42
Last weekend I just hired 2 Bangla to help me drill 16 ceiling holes and poke 8 holes in my L-box.
Fixed the 4 sets of swiveling speaker brackets and run the wiring 1st.
Using Belden 1307a type; 16awg.
Also reposition my surround speakers 6 inches lower as to differentiate between upper and low level.
Now only left the AVR not yet purchase..  ;D



Did you use solid veneer to locked from inside L-Box? and rubber shielded stainless steel nuts to prevent vibration?
If not,sooner or later your bracket/ screws might give way,will drop down from L-Box or false ceiling.

(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150616_160948_zpssx2flq3c.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150616_160948_zpssx2flq3c.jpg.html) (http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194308_zpszsobmmcv.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194308_zpszsobmmcv.jpg.html) (http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194452_zps7dbguzdv.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194452_zps7dbguzdv.jpg.html) (http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150831_171010_zpsijvrxzfr.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150831_171010_zpsijvrxzfr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on January 27, 2016, 16:58
Used this. So far no issue.

(http://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/wp-content/uploads/image-import/_0vuJZhliRZA/TIeySJNru3I/AAAAAAAAKqE/aEofeCIP5D8/s1600/Blog%2BPics%2B002.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 27, 2016, 16:59


Did you use solid veneer to locked from inside L-Box? and rubber shielded stainless steel nuts to prevent vibration?
If not,sooner or later your bracket/ screws might give way,will drop down from L-Box or false ceiling.

(http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150616_160948_zpssx2flq3c.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150616_160948_zpssx2flq3c.jpg.html) (http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194308_zpszsobmmcv.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194308_zpszsobmmcv.jpg.html) (http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194452_zps7dbguzdv.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150616_194452_zps7dbguzdv.jpg.html) (http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag339/joachimgibson/Home%20Theatre/20150831_171010_zpsijvrxzfr.jpg) (http://s1372.photobucket.com/user/joachimgibson/media/Home%20Theatre/20150831_171010_zpsijvrxzfr.jpg.html)
Hi. Thanks for advice. I attached speaker brackets directly to ceiling. L-box is for the cables to go thru to look neater; less trunking usage.

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 27, 2016, 17:00
As mentioned it is very important that your fixtures are secure and your ceiling can bear the weight ..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on January 27, 2016, 17:12
Hi. Thanks for advice. I attached speaker brackets directly to ceiling. L-box is for the cables to go thru to look neater; less trunking usage.

Be happy always ☺

Thats good!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joamonte on January 27, 2016, 20:50
Do the ceiling speaker need to use 2 pair?

Will the effect compromise too much only use one pair?
Title: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 27, 2016, 20:54
2 pairs provide you the wholesomeness above you. Also in an airplane scene, you can hear flying behind, over and further away from you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on January 27, 2016, 20:58
If can go beyond 2pairs, I would be the first to do it without blinking an eyelid!!
Hehehe!!
Trust me... 2pairs for now, is the way to go...
Dont stop at only 1pair..
Might as well forgo if jus using 1 pair..
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on January 27, 2016, 21:16
If possible, I would love to install "mid" height (say about 1.70meters in height) speakers behind me (sofa) n also infront of me (next to display on each side)
So as to really immerse into the feel of mid space audio effects leaving or coming at u in a superb cocoon environment!!
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joamonte on January 27, 2016, 21:24
Does the ceiling speaker signal contain L front , L back and R front , R back?

All the while I thought 2 pair of ceiling speaker is needed only when we have at least 2 row seat...


So given the budget of $2000 for ceiling speaker , I guess most would prefer to use 2 pair of $1000 instead of one pair of $2000.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on January 27, 2016, 21:27
I use deftech pro 800 sat's for ceiling n surround duties....
Its puncy, detailed n widely dispersive in their surround duties.
I believe its $495 per pair brand new..
K.E.C sells them.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 27, 2016, 21:38
Bro
I have used one pair as well as two in my 3 by 5.6 m space.
Whether you use one or two will be highly dependent on the size of your space.
IMO the use of the top speakers is to add space and air.
Personally I feel with two pairs, even in my small space, worked well.
It doesn't really extract info from left or right front but from the surround channels.
Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on January 27, 2016, 21:51
2 pairs provide you the wholesomeness above you. Also in an airplane scene, you can hear flying behind, over and further away from you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1...get 2 pairs if possible.

Sent from my LG V10 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: chaozhoi on January 29, 2016, 11:30
hello, may I know if you guys are using atmos ceiling speakers for DTS:X as well? I read that DTS:X does not require any specific speaker positioning.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 11:32
I'm using my atmos setup for DTS:X as well. Sounds good as well.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on January 29, 2016, 12:17
There is no need to be concerned about the speaker layout. In fact, if one is to look at the possibility to include the 3 immersive sound formats like DTS:X,  Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D, you may want to take a look at SVS proposed speaker layout which utilize FHR/FHL and RHR/RHL.

Sent from my LG V10 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 29, 2016, 12:21
My 4 ceiling brackets i position it as Top Back & Top Front. But the Top Front is roughly in line with the main speakers and will aim towards the listener legs area. Trying to achieve mixture of Auro & Atmos guideline. Similar to Tiktokape position.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 13:13

There is no need to be concerned about the speaker layout. In fact, if one is to look at the possibility to include the 3 immersive sound formats like DTS:X,  Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D, you may want to take a look at SVS proposed speaker layout which utilize FHR/FHL and RHR/RHL.

Sent from my LG V10 via Tapatalk
+1, Im using FHR/L and RHR/L setup. Works pretty well at the moment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 13:37
My 4 ceiling brackets i position it as Top Back & Top Front. But the Top Front is roughly in line with the main speakers and will aim towards the listener legs area. Trying to achieve mixture of Auro & Atmos guideline. Similar to Tiktokape position.

Point it to your ear bro.. not to your legs



... Im using FHR/L and RHR/L setup. Works pretty well at the moment.


Bro,
Are you using the same speaker for side/back surr and FHR/L and RHR/L?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 14:01
Bro,
Are you using the same speaker for side/back surr and FHR/L and RHR/L?
Nope, mine is 5.1.4, my front LRC are Monitor Audio GX100 and GX350, using Monitor Audio RXFX as rear and Anthony Gallo Micro SE fro FHR/L and RHR/L. I try to maintain same house signature for ground speakers, as for ceiling ones, need to be WAF.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: josho on January 29, 2016, 14:17
If I am unable to have ceiling mounted speaker, which speakers should I look into for Atmos effect?

I do have false ceiling and cove light, but center part is bare to ceiling (empty) for ceiling fan.

(will show photo in my later post) also need some guidance on speaker placement too.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 14:25
If I am unable to have ceiling mounted speaker, which speakers should I look into for Atmos effect?

I do have false ceiling and cove light, but center part is bare to ceiling (empty) for ceiling fan.

(will show photo in my later post) also need some guidance on speaker placement too.
Either mount the speakers(AG/KEF speakers) into your false ceiling OR mount them right below your false ceiling as height placement by firing towards you.

Or you go with KEF Atmos module speakers, place them on top of your front and rear LR and firing up your ceiling for reflection results.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 14:25
Nope, mine is 5.1.4, my front LRC are Monitor Audio GX100 and GX350, using Monitor Audio RXFX as rear and Anthony Gallo Micro SE fro FHR/L and RHR/L. I try to maintain same house signature for ground speakers, as for ceiling ones, need to be WAF.

Wow.. amazed for your centre GX350 (so big) but surprised for your ceiling Gallo (so small)...
what Crossover setting are you using it between all surrounds  vs centre?
 ???
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 14:35
Wow.. amazed for your centre GX350 (so big) but surprised for your ceiling Gallo (so small)...
what Crossover setting are you using it ?
 ???
Lol, I knew you will ask me over the crossover settings... Iirc, above 100hz. AG sounds okie to me, purpose of ceiling speakers are to create the height layer that you are in the dome to feel the results. That's me la...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 14:37
Lol, I knew you will ask me over the crossover settings... Iirc, above 100hz. AG sounds okie to me, purpose of ceiling speakers are to create the height layer that you are in the dome to feel the results. That's me la...
Thanks dude for sharing..
small but bite... chilli padi small but very hot ler
ha..ha..  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: josho on January 29, 2016, 14:50
Either mount the speakers(AG/KEF speakers) into your false ceiling OR mount them right below your false ceiling as height placement by firing towards you.

Or you go with KEF Atmos module speakers, place them on top of your front and rear LR and firing up your ceiling for reflection results.

have that thought before. but due to limitation, i cant mount ceiling on top. seem hard to locate good position as well.
However, I will go see KEF
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 14:58
have that thought before. but due to limitation, i cant mount ceiling on top. seem hard to locate good position as well.
However, I will go see KEF
Look at KEF eggs.

Thanks dude for sharing..
small but bite... chilli padi small but very hot ler
ha..ha..  ;D
Ya, can run pretty HOT haha...
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 15:01
If I am unable to have ceiling mounted speaker, which speakers should I look into for Atmos effect?

I do have false ceiling and cove light, but center part is bare to ceiling (empty) for ceiling fan.

(will show photo in my later post) also need some guidance on speaker placement too.

Hi bro,
Your layout is the same as mine...Is it rectangle ?

I use bookshelf for my 4 ceiling speakers which are attached to adjustable bracket then mounted directly to real ceiling. I do make sure > 1.2m between speakers for good separation.
My ID concealed all speaker cables from speaker then hide inside false ceiling (I saw he clamp it nicely so cable wont move when subwoofer producing low freq)
 :)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: josho on January 29, 2016, 15:05
Hi bro,
Your layout is the same as mine...Is it rectangle ?

I use bookshelf for my 4 ceiling speakers which are attached to adjustable bracket then mounted directly to real ceiling. I do make sure > 1.2m between speakers for good separation.
My ID concealed all speaker cables from speaker then hide inside false ceiling (I saw he clamp it nicely so cable wont move when subwoofer producing low freq)
 :)

My renovation ended few weeks ago.
I cannot cfm my spkr layout so I decided not to do laying of cables during that time. But will be doing all by myself.

My living room is good position to lay the speakers, but need to place them nicely so that no one will complain. Its a masionette area. (Currently not staying there yet.) Let me see if I have the photo to show, so that i can get proper advise. =)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 29, 2016, 15:28
Point it to your ear bro.. not to your legs


Bro,
Are you using the same speaker for side/back surr and FHR/L and RHR/L?
Yup, will experiment after I have Atmos Avr. My thinking was trying to make the sound diffuse as the rear is just behind sofa already aiming down direct and the front do not want so direct.

Wife not happy, 1st time visit Tiktokape, i promptly changed Avr, den now after 2nd visit, going to change again.. hehe.. will do it after my end Feb Europe holiday.

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 15:35
Wife not happy, 1st time visit Tiktokape, i promptly changed Avr, den now after 2nd visit, going to change again.. hehe.. will do it after my end Feb Europe holiday.
Why am I in the equation of upgrade? Nothing to do with me....
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 29, 2016, 15:38
Why am I in the equation of upgrade? Nothing to do with me....
Hehe.. she said when i listen to those better ones, i will be itchy to upgrade.

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 15:51

Hehe.. she said when i listen to those better ones, i will be itchy to upgrade.
Who ask you to stray around without her..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 16:08
Yup, will experiment after I have Atmos Avr. My thinking was trying to make the sound diffuse as the rear is just behind sofa already aiming down direct and the front do not want so direct.

Wife not happy, 1st time visit Tiktokape, i promptly changed Avr, den now after 2nd visit, going to change again.. hehe.. will do it after my end Feb Europe holiday.

Be happy always ☺

Hehe.. she said when i listen to those better ones, i will be itchy to upgrade.

Be happy always ☺

Better to spend time at home with your hi-fi rather than spend time outside with .....
Easier for her to locate you.

Do you know women usually like handbag so you can snap one when you are going for holiday
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 29, 2016, 16:23
Better to spend time at home with your hi-fi rather than spend time outside with .....
Easier for her to locate you.

Do you know women usually like handbag so you can snap one when you are going for holiday
 ;D
Yup. That's the plan. To pay for 1 of her upcoming bags; hopefully not too high $

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on January 29, 2016, 16:32
Yup. That's the plan. To pay for 1 of her upcoming bags; hopefully not too high $
So she will approve you to buy Denon 7200WA?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 29, 2016, 17:46
So she will approve you to buy Denon 7200WA?
No la. 7200 too high end for my setup & costly. Either 6200 or SR7010 will be more value $ for me.

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 18:10
No la. 7200 too high end for my setup & costly. Either 6200 or SR7010 will be more value $ for me.

Be happy always ☺

Bags can be more costly bro..

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 29, 2016, 18:13
Bags can be more costly bro..
Last time in Europe, her most exp was 1k Sing. This time dunno..

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on January 29, 2016, 18:42
Last time in Europe, her most exp was 1k Sing. This time dunno..

Be happy always ☺



Maybe she want to upgrade as well.  ;D  :o
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: josho on January 29, 2016, 19:02
How much did your get the 6200 for?
A bag is almost the same cost tho. =)

Happy is imptnt. =)
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 29, 2016, 19:15
My renovation ended few weeks ago.
I cannot cfm my spkr layout so I decided not to do laying of cables during that time. But will be doing all by myself.

Its a masionette area. (Currently not staying there yet.) Let me see if I have the photo to show, so that i can get proper advise. =)

Better use small cable.. then
U can use "minus" screw driver to make "a path" before u can burried ur cable with white cement for ceiling.. use sand paper than re paint it...

Well... looking forward to see ur renovated living room.. surely looks grand ler.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: josho on January 29, 2016, 20:48
Better use small cable.. then
U can use "minus" screw driver to make "a path" before u can burried ur cable with white cement for ceiling.. use sand paper than re paint it...

Well... looking forward to see ur renovated living room.. surely looks grand ler.


Haa.. sure sure. =) quite looking forward to movie session happily.
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on February 03, 2016, 15:33
Haa.. sure sure. =) quite looking forward to movie session happily.

Still no photo huh?
will you have open house so we can enjoy your HT setup also?  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on February 03, 2016, 17:12
How much did your get the 6200 for?
A bag is almost the same cost tho. =)

Happy is imptnt. =)

Cheers.

Denon X6200 ~ $21xx.

Happy Wife. Happy Life.  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on February 03, 2016, 18:53
Has any one using Tannoy Mercury 7,1 as Atmos speakers ?
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: josho on February 03, 2016, 22:48
Still no photo huh?
will you have open house so we can enjoy your HT setup also?  ;D

Yeah.. not yet upload. busy unpacking all the items now. @.@
Title: Re: ATMOS and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on February 04, 2016, 10:52
Just some clarification of nomenclature :


Height 1 + height 2 speakers are typically used in an Atmos / DTS-X setup.


You have TOP Front and TOP Rear options in your setup menu.


Use these options for the ceiling mounted speakers.


If you have speakers mounted in the legacy Dolby PL Z or DTS- Neo X positions as Front Heights or Rear Heights in Auro, they can also be applied, but you need to specify this during the setup phase of your amp.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on February 04, 2016, 10:53
If you foresee that you will use "WIDE" speakers in your setup, you need to power them up, and have them enabled during the Audyssey setup phase, otherwise they won't be calibrated.


But do note that these are not part of the Atmos speaker configuration.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: r0n1n31 on February 09, 2016, 11:45
Do you know women usually like handbag so you can snap one when you are going for holiday
 ;D

Typical bribe ;) sometimes it works for me sometime not  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on February 09, 2016, 12:16
Confirm Chanel handbags will work. But use this brand only for big ticket toys.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on February 09, 2016, 15:11
Confirm Chanel handbags will work. But use this brand only for big ticket toys.

Agreed.

 Only use this sparingly.  ;D

Otherwise, the hole in your pocket will be  :o
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on February 09, 2016, 15:23
Looking forward to trying this on my 7010 in due course, but do post on the final settings in terms of speaker positions and how 'hot' do you run the ceiling speakers or do you try to use the "Memory" function to have different settings for DTS / Atmos?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: noobzpro on February 13, 2016, 18:13
Hey guys, am looking for ceiling speakers for atmos setup. As I do not have any false ceiling, in ceiling is out of the option for me. I am currently considering getting outdoor speakers to use as atmos speakers since they have brackets which are easy to mount to the ceiling. Do they work fine? Also I am in between various models particularly, Polk audio atrium4, Yamaha NS-AW350. Any other models you guys would recommend in this range or are there any other types of speakers to replace in ceiling. Thanks alot.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wechnivag on February 13, 2016, 23:44
Agreed.

 Only use this sparingly.  ;D

Otherwise, the hole in your pocket will be  :o
Does the handbag cost more than the new toy it is supposed to 'cover'? So need to budget for the handbag when upgrading...

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on February 13, 2016, 23:53
Does the handbag cost more than the new toy it is supposed to 'cover'? So need to budget for the handbag when upgrading...

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Cheers bro.

Depends on the cost of the bag.

There this lady in sg whose 3 bags cost nearly a mil.  ;D :o
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hero on February 14, 2016, 09:41
Hey guys, am looking for ceiling speakers for atmos setup. As I do not have any false ceiling, in ceiling is out of the option for me. I am currently considering getting outdoor speakers to use as atmos speakers since they have brackets which are easy to mount to the ceiling. Do they work fine? Also I am in between various models particularly, Polk audio atrium4, Yamaha NS-AW350. Any other models you guys would recommend in this range or are there any other types of speakers to replace in ceiling. Thanks alot.

I face the same problem. My potential solution is to DIY a housing for in-ceiling speakers as I find fixing a speaker with metal brackets unsightly.

Currently my plan is to use Ikea 28cm diameter ($10 each) metal bowls and secure it over the ceiling. Need to use a metal grinder to cut a hole in the bowl to fix the in-ceiling speaker. Any 6.5" will fit nicely but watch the depth it should not be more than 100cm.

My plan is to do it sometime this year. I have yet to buy my speakers but am using the Amazon 6.5" Micca as my benchmark. ($35 USD with free shipping BUT 3-5 MONTHS to deliver cos no stock) 

This solution is only for bros who are good with tools and can DIY tho  ;D

click on the link below for a sample picture......looks like a metal breast!  ;)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/253217-ikea-blanda-speaker-driver-2.html

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: noobzpro on February 14, 2016, 20:07
I face the same problem. My potential solution is to DIY a housing for in-ceiling speakers as I find fixing a speaker with metal brackets unsightly.

Currently my plan is to use Ikea 28cm diameter ($10 each) metal bowls and secure it over the ceiling. Need to use a metal grinder to cut a hole in the bowl to fix the in-ceiling speaker. Any 6.5" will fit nicely but watch the depth it should not be more than 100cm.

My plan is to do it sometime this year. I have yet to buy my speakers but am using the Amazon 6.5" Micca as my benchmark. ($35 USD with free shipping BUT 3-5 MONTHS to deliver cos no stock) 

This solution is only for bros who are good with tools and can DIY tho  ;D

click on the link below for a sample picture......looks like a metal breast!  ;)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/253217-ikea-blanda-speaker-driver-2.html



Thanks for sharing your idea bro. Did also see some such idea using acrylic boxes at avs. But didn't really wanna go that route. I will probably order the outdoor speakers soon and report back, I do not mind the looks because its in a dedicated room. If in living room then different story haha. Cheers bro.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wechnivag on February 18, 2016, 00:09
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

Just came across this. Interesting, neat and not too expensive.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on February 20, 2016, 06:51
Battlefield: Los Angeles is a pretty good DTS-X demo movie. This movie came out in 2011; way before immersive audio.

With Neural:X, this movie just got a new life. From 18 to 24th minute of the movie, there a lot of overhead sonic cues. Directionally distinct distant flak explosion overhead as the helicopters fly towards the F.O.B.

Not only that, there are numerous jets and helicopters flying by overhead; not left to right, but left overhead to right overhead.

In short, this is a great movie to experience DTS Neural:X up mixing! Very lively overheads! I feel there are more overhead sounds than ear level.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on February 20, 2016, 10:49
Battlefield: Los Angeles is a pretty good DTS-X demo movie. This movie came out in 2011; way before immersive audio.

With Neural:X, this movie just got a new life. From 18 to 24th minute of the movie, there a lot of overhead sonic cues. Directionally distinct distant flak explosion overhead as the helicopters fly towards the F.O.B.

Not only that, there are numerous jets and helicopters flying by overhead; not left to right, but left overhead to right overhead.

In short, this is a great movie to experience DTS Neural:X up mixing! Very lively overheads! I feel there are more overhead sounds than ear level.

Agreed...just watched this a week ago with DTS Neural:X upmixing. Another one is Cloverfield. DSU made this Sci-fi flick awesome but DTS Neural:X simply take it to the next level. There are many more good mix from older titles that you can re-watch till more DTS:X titles being released to the market.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: noobzpro on February 24, 2016, 17:08
Hey guy, would like to ask. How wide apart should the ceiling speaker be?  Same as fronts or less wide. Thanks.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on February 24, 2016, 17:23
As much as possible, they should be as wide apart as the fronts are.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: noobzpro on February 24, 2016, 18:54
Thanks a lot for the quick reply bro Jag, one more question for a .2 setup the speakers should be a little in Front of the MLP right
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on February 24, 2016, 19:54
I presume you meant the overhead .2......

Yes, they should be slightly in front, about 65  to 80 degrees up.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on February 24, 2016, 22:07
Hey guy, would like to ask. How wide apart should the ceiling speaker be?  Same as fronts or less wide. Thanks.
Check this out bro:
Suggested speaker positions from Dolby:

5.1.2:
http://www.dolby.com/in/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/5-1-2-setups.html

They are guidelines and you can play with the angles a bit to suit your home, and avoid ceiling fans / lights.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 06, 2016, 14:42
Useful unified layout:


 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=468729&stc=1&d=1420828318)
 
 Front Height speaker pair: Azimuth ±45° (±5°)
 Rear Height speaker pair: Azimuth ±135° (±5°)
 All Front|Rear Height speakers: Elevation +35° (±10°)
 
 Source "Call for Proposals: ATSC 3.0 Audio System" (link) (http://atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/S34-112r4-ATSC-3-Audio-CfP.pdf)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on March 15, 2016, 10:22
 Taken from AVS, this video shows the dts:x speaker layout , and he compares dtsx and atmos.

However, video from HK.

Any bro can help to embed?

Thanks

Here's the clip you requested:

http://www.youtube.com/v/BJ3ZXttPFn4&feature=youtu.be&fs=1
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sypderman88 on March 17, 2016, 13:49
Hi Guys,

 Need to seek your advice on height speakers for DTS:X and Atmos. Contemplating between in ceiling speakers or using satellite mounted
at high approach (http://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75358787-intro-to-dolby-atmos) alternative mouting action.
 Queries:
1) For in ceiling speakers do need in ceiling with adjustable tweeter aiming at MLP ? Any backer box is required or ceiling vibration issue?
2) Will the satellite speakers approach achieve the same SQ as in ceiling ?

Please share.
Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 17, 2016, 19:59
Taken from AVS, this video shows the dts:x speaker layout , and he compares dtsx and atmos.

However, video from HK.

Any bro can help to embed?

Thanks

http://goo.gl/vGcNKN



Why go through the clip...when u can have the actual slides?

Click here: http://58.64.214.132/wordpress/?p=92868
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joshua182 on March 18, 2016, 13:50
hi guys im trying to set up a pair of ceiling speakers for atmos. however, my movie room's ceiling is not completely flat as it is on the attic floor so there is a big slant. as such, the speakers may not be evenly placed... there may not be symmetrical positioning is what i mean.. will this be ok? it's not very tidy but will it work?

also side note anyone got any recommendations for the ceiling speakers? im currently using a very simple setup of a cabasse Eole 3 5.1 set run by a x2200w.. so the max i can do right now is 5.1.2.

my projector is also going to be ceiling mounted so i thought might as well do up the whole dang thing.

thanks for any advice in advice guys!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on March 18, 2016, 14:02
Attic with a slanted ceiling will trap sound..
Not very ideal.
But since no choice, I guess u gotta try it.
If u can install a solid false ceiling with lots of sound absortion materials, then maybe the desired overhead sound would be optimal.
Jus my opinion only..
Cheers!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 18, 2016, 15:05
Attic with a slanted ceiling will trap sound..
Not very ideal.
But since no choice, I guess u gotta try it.
If u can install a solid false ceiling with lots of sound absortion materials, then maybe the desired overhead sound would be optimal.
Jus my opinion only..
Cheers!

Or do this :)

(http://www.elipson.com/media/Elipson/ELIPLACEIMOUM/ELI_planetM_ceilingmount_colorsx3.jpg)

They aren't full range speakers but they don't sound too bad. And this allows you to suspend the speakers to the right height for Atmos
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joshua182 on March 18, 2016, 17:01
Those are beautiful speakers. What are they?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Doggie Howser on March 18, 2016, 17:47
Elipson Planet M.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ahduck on March 18, 2016, 19:15
Looks good and similar like Anthony Gallo. . Hmm I wonder If add the speaker cable and banana plugs will it still look good and affect WAF..

Sent from my Game Boy Advance 32gb 4GLTE/WiFi using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joshua182 on March 19, 2016, 00:30
haha looks similar to my cabasse.. the french really have a thing for round things :D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: durianlover88 on March 27, 2016, 16:20
Brolers, if I install 5.1.2 configuration for Atmos, does the 2 height speakers need to be angled towards MLP?

I actually will be doing 4.0.2 at the start since no Sub and no Centre speakers.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 27, 2016, 16:42
That depends on where your overhead speakers are sited - very close to your MLP or to the front/back. If you are using very wide dispersion ones, then straight down is fine.
If you are using AG A'Divas for example, you can always tilt/swivel them a little when you adjust your MLP..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 27, 2016, 16:44
Just a link to a chap who has a nice idea on mounting those ceiling speakers:
http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php/topic/213893-atmos-and-3d-audio-adventures/?p=2062298 (http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php/topic/213893-atmos-and-3d-audio-adventures/?p=2062298)

We have a few bros here who are good with their hands too, and will be able to do just as pro a job..
http://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-50306-DynaBox-Enclosure-Speakers/dp/B002DS3P40
http://www.dynamat.com/architectural-home/architectural-home-dynabox/
(http://www.dynamat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/DynaBox-Install-Illustration-1024x266.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 31, 2016, 14:21
DTS-X speaker arrangement:
(http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1316505&d=1458080389)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 31, 2016, 14:21
This works for both Atmos & DTS-X:
(http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g360/BlackMambaHemi/Atmos%20DTSX%20Upgrades/DTSX_zps8qc5xbyp.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 31, 2016, 15:40
Personally I will just simply follow Dolby atmos speaker layout. DTS X is more forgiving in their layout, so long there is speakers on the ceiling or even the use reflective spks like the AE modules.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: bluepill193 on April 01, 2016, 12:58
Has anyone got experience with mounting speakers onto concrete ceiling (no false ceiling)? Any issues with drilling into the ceiling, especially structural integrity issues?
Considering doing this with AG A'diva speakers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on April 01, 2016, 13:15
No issue. Coz drilling small ~5mm holes only.

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on April 01, 2016, 13:17
Personally I will just simply follow Dolby atmos speaker layout. DTS X is more forgiving in their layout, so long there is speakers on the ceiling or even the use reflective spks like the AE modules.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Mine more of a hybrid mix halfway between height & top positions.

Be happy always ☺

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ALTK on April 01, 2016, 14:00
I drilled mine directly on concrete ceiling. It's harder than normal wall n I took quite sometimes to get it done cos don't dare to force too hard due to small drill bit size.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 02, 2016, 14:02
Just a little personal perspective, and I would say that speaker placement is so important, so you create the right ambience.
Right placement, and good manual adjustment of levels to make the transition of sound from speaker to speaker is vital.


One can't just leave it to Audyssey to fix. You have to do some work, and the reward can be a very involving experience.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on April 02, 2016, 16:53
I drilled my speakers and projector directly into the ceiling. No big issue.

I use special Tapcon masonry screws that screw directly into the concrete. No need for wall plugs or anchor bolts. Very strong pull strength.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: bluepill193 on April 02, 2016, 18:02
Thanks for the inputs on drilling into ceiling. Bro Jag these tapcon screws are available in any hardware shops?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 02, 2016, 18:09
A quick word on using a ceiling position / close to ceiling position for the REAR speaker:


Not the Atmos speaker, but a rear or rear back speaker.
Due to WAF or other constraints, we can see some bros using a position that is just off the ceiling or cove for their rear speaker. Then angling this down to face the MLP.


Then the question is posed - ( often after the position is actually selected and the speaker is actually in place! ), whether or not this is ok :)
Well as what I told a bro an hour ago..


We live by our decisions, and make a choice based on the compromise between sound and WAF - wife acceptance factor. Put simply, a wrongly or less than ideally placed speaker won't allow the directional place and sound transition required. Say a bullet flies from back to front, it won't give that illusion if the sound emanates from up high and rear, then has to transit to the side surrounds or front speakers. It will appear disjointed, or there will be a gap in the sound.


The best position for a rear or rear back speaker is always around the ear level or just slightly higher, i.e. at most a foot or two higher than your sitting position.


One way if you are able to, is to get your contractor to cut into the concrete wall and lay the cable, then plaster back the cavity. That gives you the WAF you are looking for, and still allowing a better speaker position.



Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 03, 2016, 23:04
Bros
Any idea where I can get my hands on a demo disc with test tones?
Either for DTS-X or Atmos?
Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 18, 2016, 23:18
Saw someone on AVS post that one should use the "Heights" for the ceiling speakers instead of the "Top" so one can use the same configuration for Atmos and DTS-X?
Does anyone do that?
I have been using Top Front and Rear, and it sounds pretty fine.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 18, 2016, 23:22
If u parallel them, like what bro Jag n me have done, I think its no problem..
Jag is the guru that I followed after visiting his man cave.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on April 18, 2016, 23:52
If u parallel them, like what bro Jag n me have done, I think its no problem..
Jag is the guru that I followed after visiting his man cave.

Hi Bro Cash.

Can advise how to parallel the front heights?

Thought of moving my front wides to front height but already have 4 overheads.



Cheers.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:03
See my pics I posted bro..
I jus reconnect them with extra speaker wires!!
Desray saw those pics and said its madness!!
Hehehe!!
WAF factor does not come into play with my route I choose!!
Bro Jags house setup definately much neater n WAF approved!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on April 19, 2016, 00:10
See my pics I posted bro..
I jus reconnect them with extra speaker wires!!
Desray saw those pics and said its madness!!
Hehehe!!
WAF factor does not come into play with my route I choose!!
Bro Jags house setup definately much neater n WAF approved!
See my pics I posted bro..
I jus reconnect them with extra speaker wires!!
Desray saw those pics and said its madness!!
Hehehe!!
WAF factor does not come into play with my route I choose!!
Bro Jags house setup definately much neater n WAF approved!

Cheers.

Did you connect the speakers through the same binding post on the avr? or daisy chaining from post -> wire -> speaker -> wire -> speaker?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:12
I am reachin nirvana now.. 3 bots of tiger..
I cant find the post I posted the pic...
Damn!!! ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:13
It was from speaker to speaker..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:13
Not from the avr side...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 19, 2016, 00:14
I don't quite understand how to wire up in parallel and I am not sure I want to?
More importantly:
Do you use Top or Heights?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:17
Thats y i have 8 deftech pros 800 on ceiling plus top walls...
Hehehehe!!
In all I have 10 deftech pros 800, plus 2 more deftech pros 1000 for surrounds..
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:20
Pete, it doesnt matter to me if top or height..
I heard the sound from Jag's man cave, n it was nice n great!!
Hehehehe!!
Me approching the nirvana stage here guys!!
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:29
No offence ah, pete..
Jus that I dont think I can type long posts now...
Hehehehe!!!
Simple replieswill be ok for my comprehension now
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:40
Damnit.... I cant find my post with pics attached...
Tiger has got me this time...
 :'(
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 00:49
When I reach home later, I will climd up to take pic of close up view of how I parallel them..
Hehehe!! Hope I dont fall down!!
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 02:07
no.... i don't think i gonna be taking pics now...2.07am in the morning now
hahahahaha!!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 02:19
found it!!
 ;D

OMG!!!

That's MADnessss....
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 02:21
my 8 DefTech Pro 800 speakers being daisy chained to each other to run in tandem with the 4 atmos ceiling layout.

((FRONT FOUR!!))

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/IMG-20160219-WA0004.jpeg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/IMG-20160219-WA0004.jpeg.html)


((BACK FOUR!!))

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/IMG-20160219-WA0006.jpeg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/IMG-20160219-WA0006.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 02:23
this is the thread...

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=223573.0
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 02:31
yo bro Sigurous, hope u can see how i have hooked them 8 ceiling speakers up...
i like this nirvana stage i am in now..
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: durianlover88 on April 19, 2016, 06:56
Broler $, can you define what channels on AVR are being used when daisy chaining, and what height speakers pairs are being chained together?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 07:40
the onkyo's have no dtsx update till today...
so its daisy chained as in Atmos style..
n the rz-900 does only .2
no .4 option...
so i can only activate the front 4, or the back 4 only...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on April 19, 2016, 08:46
Saw someone on AVS post that one should use the "Heights" for the ceiling speakers instead of the "Top" so one can use the same configuration for Atmos and DTS-X?
Does anyone do that?
I have been using Top Front and Rear, and it sounds pretty fine.

Hi Pete,

Yes..
Since my Onkyo AVR  is not up to Atmos capabilities yet that's why I use "height" channels as my ceiling (Atmos setup)...  ;D
After calibration, I like to add 2 db high for my surr/rear surr and 3db for my ceiling (height channel actually).
Siok when playing Atmos demo... my AVR displayed PLIIx height
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on April 19, 2016, 09:28
yo bro Sigurous, hope u can see how i have hooked them 8 ceiling speakers up...
i like this nirvana stage i am in now..
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Cheers Bro $, wah really salute you man.

If i do this at home, the cables will be cut off the very next moment.  ;D

I'm "limited" by you know who that there should be not be any cables exposed.

Think i will try to use the binding post to connect to my 2 pairs of front height and top front.

Any issues with this connection with regards to impedence?

Further bro how do you calibrate using the AVR EQ? As the tones will be ouput by the 2 pairs at different heights and distance?

Cheers

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 19, 2016, 09:40
Thanks bros
Appreciate the replies
I think maybe I may not have been clear.
I want to know if I can stick to using the Top front and rears for both atmos and DTS ..
Instead of the Height mode.

As for individual channel levels I actually tone down my rears and ceiling channels to make it more even..
Otherwise I get an "in my head" headphone kind effect..

Maybe you can try some bullets flying or scenes where things transit from one speaker to the other and see if it sounds even ?
Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 10:08
Impedence so far all ok...
Not even a shutdown of avr.
For the AccuEQ, I jus let it do its thingy..
Then I manually use my sound level meter to  bring it all to 75db level..
The center channel gets 2db up..(77db)
Sub's are around the range of 73-76db..
I know, its not optimal, but as long as I can hear wat I want to hear, then its jus gr888!!
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 10:12
If u go the binding post option, u need more or same length of speaker cables..
I lazy to buy more cables..
Jus cut a short length n wire up from the other speaker.
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on April 19, 2016, 10:14
Impedence so far all ok...
Not even a shutdown of avr.
For the AccuEQ, I jus let it do its thingy..
Then I manually use my sound level meter to  bring it all to 75db level..
The center channel gets 2db up..(77db)
Sub's are around the range of 73-76db..
I know, its not optimal, but as long as I can hear wat I want to hear, then its jus gr888!!
 ;D

Cheers bro.

Will do so but will try to connect in parallel instead.

Great to know that you have achieved "Nirvana"  ;D

Hope we all can do so for our HT system as well.  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on April 19, 2016, 10:16
If u go the binding post option, u need more or same length of speaker cables..
I lazy to buy more cables..
Jus cut a short length n wire up from the other speaker.
 ;D

I've have actually laid the cables as i shifted from front height to front wides after knowing current AVR only allows .4

Cheers. Will experiment and see/hear whether any difference.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 10:23
the nirvana was from the beer last nite!! hehehehe!!
not my ht!
 ;D
anyway, some close up pics for all to see.

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/IMG20160419101557.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/IMG20160419101557.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/IMG20160419101656.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/IMG20160419101656.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/IMG20160419101729.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/IMG20160419101729.jpg.html)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/cashkey/IMG20160419101820.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/cashkey/media/IMG20160419101820.jpg.html)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Yubaba on April 19, 2016, 11:00
very nice layout and impressive
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 19, 2016, 11:11
thks bro...
all for that ht sound we all want to achieve at home...
 :D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 25, 2016, 10:37
How about these for upward firing speakers  ;D
http://www.sandermulder.com/woofers.html


(http://www.sandermulder.com/img/large/woofers_1.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on May 16, 2016, 21:47
I just re-watched tsunami-themed disaster movie starring Naomi Watts and the young Spiderman (Tom Holland). The movie itself is heart-wrenching to watch especially for those who have lost their loved ones in the 2004 Tsunami that hit the Sumatra islands. At a young age, you can see the potential of Tom Holland as an actor...

(http://cdn.hitfix.com/photos/2621837/impossibleSpanishArt640_featured_photo_gallery.jpg)

The DTS-HD MSTR mix with DTS Neural:X really brings this movie to another whole new level...to really test out your new Atmos/DTS:X setup, this is worth a re-run.


Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on May 30, 2016, 07:00
Here's an interesting piece of news from DTS that is rather misleading with its title. Take a moment to read and you will find that it says nothing to boost the confidence of the buyer over more DTS X titles coming this year... Or did I miss it? LoL

See article: http://www.cnet.com/news/after-a-shaky-start-dtsx-is-finally-ready-to-take-on-dolby-atmos/


Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: fuhyong on August 01, 2016, 07:59
Hi, setting up my home theatre in a 5.5 x 4.5 m room. Would like some recommendations for ceiling speakers to be used in an ATMOS setup.
The MLP hasn't been decided upon but would probably be 4/5 of the way back along the length of the room.

I am looking at these Hivi VR6 in ceiling speakers from Taobao. Probably less than 80 SGD each shipped. Would these do? There is a bigger non co-axial rectangular VX8 in wall speakers. Is 2 of these sufficient for the room or would you recommend 4? (In a 5.1.x configuration)

I think these speakers are also sold under the "Swan audio" brand.

HiVi VR6-C Ceiling speaker
http://www.hiviusa.com/products/detail.aspx?pid=100000167487884

Hivi VR8-W
http://www.swanspeaker.com/products/products.aspx?cid=7&sid=47&pid=131

Thanks for your advice.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 02, 2016, 09:19
Bros
How do you setup a combined DTS X and Atmos system?


I read from AVS that they suggest using the Front and Rear HEIGHTs instead of the Top Front and Rear configurations. Anyone does this?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2309010-dts-x-76.html#post45747753

Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on August 02, 2016, 18:32
Mine set as Top Rear and Front Height as that is the nearest for my setup.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 05, 2016, 11:42
Just doing a summary of speaker placement discussions that was posted on AVS here:


If you have ceiling speakers, and are sited close to 45 degrees, you can use the HEIGHTS mode, instead of the TOPs mode.


But DTS may have some bleed into your side surrounds.


On the other hand, there actually isn't any issue with using the TOP mode especially if the main surround mode used is Atmos, DSU or even Neural X.


But when you change from TOPs to HEIGHTs or vice versa, you will need to re-run Audyssey or other auto-EQs again.


Personally I am sticking to the TOP configuration because of where I placed my ceiling speakers. YMMV, and a little experiment will help a lot.


If you have a Yamaha which allows different memory settings, you can save one for TOP and one for HEIGHT. If you have a Marantz / Denon then you are out of luck.


Just choose one and stick with it, enjoy :)


Hope this helps.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: deadrick on August 08, 2016, 14:18
Was looking ard for atmos speaker and came across those outdoor speakers under yamaha ans polk audio.
Seems to be a good option to install on the ceiling as there is a bracket mount for the speakers.
Anyone tried it?
Can google polk audio atrium.
Outdoor speakers supposed to be good for dispersion right?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on August 08, 2016, 23:36
A useful link to how to position the ceiling speakers:
http://58.64.214.132/wordpress/?p=92868
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hero on August 31, 2016, 11:24
I face the same problem. My potential solution is to DIY a housing for in-ceiling speakers as I find fixing a speaker with metal brackets unsightly.

Currently my plan is to use Ikea 28cm diameter ($10 each) metal bowls and secure it over the ceiling. Need to use a metal grinder to cut a hole in the bowl to fix the in-ceiling speaker. Any 6.5" will fit nicely but watch the depth it should not be more than 100cm.

My plan is to do it sometime this year. I have yet to buy my speakers but am using the Amazon 6.5" Micca as my benchmark. ($35 USD with free shipping BUT 3-5 MONTHS to deliver cos no stock) 

This solution is only for bros who are good with tools and can DIY tho  ;D

click on the link below for a sample picture......looks like a metal breast!  ;)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/253217-ikea-blanda-speaker-driver-2.html

Just got my DIY Ikea Salad Bowl ceiling speakers set up.....now deciding between Denon 6200 or upcoming 4300  :)

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l613/huanges/IMG_20160831_111622_zps3rwnj2al.jpg)

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l613/huanges/IMG_20160831_111549_zpsawnrix0a.jpg)

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l613/huanges/IMG_20160831_111456_zpsommjlydo.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tane0019 on August 31, 2016, 13:13
WOW  :o :o :o

You going to paint the surface over with white paint ??
How about the ceiling spk grille ?  Not going to put them on ??

Question: Did you put any damping mat'ls inside the bowl ?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on August 31, 2016, 13:17
Just got my DIY Ikea Salad Bowl ceiling speakers set up.....now deciding between Denon 6200 or upcoming 4300  :)

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l613/huanges/IMG_20160831_111549_zpsawnrix0a.jpg)

;D
Wah.... thumbs up bro.. looks so elegant and unique (it is only one in Singapore - made by you - very creative).
It is also ported.. cute ler
I noticed your back ceiling spk flush to ceiling wall ... Wont mind to share your rear and side surr position?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hero on August 31, 2016, 15:44
WOW  :o :o :o

You going to paint the surface over with white paint ??
How about the ceiling spk grille ?  Not going to put them on ??

Question: Did you put any damping mat'ls inside the bowl ?

Not planning to paint or put on any grills. The salad bowl is stuffed full of white fluffy fibre material (sort of like the bolster fibre material). Used 3 layers of 6mm corkboard as a base to seal up the back of the speaker. Between corkboard and ceiling, I used 10mm aircon insulation material. Have not tested for movies yet as I have not bought my atmos amp but tested with music and it sounded OK to me  :P
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hero on August 31, 2016, 15:52
;D
Wah.... thumbs up bro.. looks so elegant and unique (it is only one in Singapore - made by you - very creative).
It is also ported.. cute ler
I noticed your back ceiling spk flush to ceiling wall ... Wont mind to share your rear and side surr position?

Thanks  :) It sure was not easy especially cutting holes in the salad bowl and figuring out everything from scratch including realigning the ceiling lights with the cable trunking.

Will be going for 5.2.4 set up so do not have side surround speakers.

My back speakers are located in the niche in the 'wall' beside my projector. Seating below projector.

(http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l613/huanges/IMG_20160831_153603_zpsbjy85icb.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 17, 2016, 10:08
reviving an old thread, and posting as a newbie...

took my first steps on atmos yesterday and got a BNIB pioneer sc-lx58 from audiohouse at $850. heard atmos for the first time in the demo room and got quite hooked. I know it usually sounds better in the showroom but the room didnt seem to have any special treatment.

Not sure if that is a good buy because this is a 2 year old model, but compared to all the other 2nd hand receivers being sold and the x4200w at 1200 being cleared by alpha audio this seemed to be the best 9.2 option out there. please feel free to advise me otherwise cos I still have a 7 day money return policy.

now, need to mount two ceiling speakers, trunk and calibrate. on the basis that this setup is for me to watch movies on my PC and is installed in a rectangular bedroom, few questions:

(1) mordaunt short genie satellites ok as ceiling speakers? not fussy about matching with my yamaha ns 555, ns 333 and c444 speakers.
(2) installing ceiling speakers - just how bad is it to do so? still staying with parents unfortunately, not moving out so soon, am concerned about how irreversible the ceiling drilling process will be. also since the satellites are heavy, not sure if installing these things directly over your head is safe or not :P
(3) can't go the reflection route because as it is the distance between front to back is quite short (the distance between front and back is the shorter length of the rectangle). heck, the soundstage is quite limited already due to the distance between front and back - probably no more than 2.5 metres to begin with 
(4) since the room is short, do I go 5.1.4, 5.1.2 (and waste the extra two amplification channels which apparently cant be used to bi amp the front surrounds) or 7.1.2?

would love to hear the thoughts of all the experienced bros here - am I even wasting my time and money over this? my family does not have watch movies etc in the living room, so my PC is my home entertainment in my bedroom. is it abit too crazy to try build an atmos setup in the bedroom? Also, any response to my questions above and my choice of receiver would be appreciated!

Regards
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 17, 2016, 12:38
Bro
Your choice of the 2 year old LX 58 only does Atmos? No DTS-X?
Personally speaking, if you moving out eventually, just do 5.1, in a small room it can be highly involving too.
I don't know if those speakers you want to use will help spread the sound as much as what you want, it's up to you to decide how fierce you want to reno..
IMO, 5.1.4 is the max in your room size, especially with such significant space constraints. You have 2.5m front to back.. that's the distance from my centre speaker to my listening position ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 17, 2016, 14:20
yes, for $850 brand new there aren't many 9.2 channel atmos amps out there (any suggestions?).

look at the 2nd hand prices here e.g. 1599 for an 7.2 rz900 without box and warranty.

will just have to bet that atmos penetrates the market more than DTS:X which it appears to do e.g. more movies do atmos than DTS:X

so between the 7.1.2 / 5.1.2 / 5.1.4 options you would go 5.1.4?

Any clue on how extensive installing speakers on ceiling are? I'm planning to install mordaunt short genies.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 17, 2016, 21:09
yes, for $850 brand new there aren't many 9.2 channel atmos amps out there (any suggestions?).

look at the 2nd hand prices here e.g. 1599 for an 7.2 rz900 without box and warranty.

will just have to bet that atmos penetrates the market more than DTS:X which it appears to do e.g. more movies do atmos than DTS:X

so between the 7.1.2 / 5.1.2 / 5.1.4 options you would go 5.1.4?

Any clue on how extensive installing speakers on ceiling are? I'm planning to install mordaunt short genies.
I don't what are the prices for the LX 58, so if it fits your needs, that's good.
As for fixing speakers on the ceiling, bro Cash, Jag, Joagjib and many more have posted pics of their work. If you want neat, clean installations, you will get a new false ceiling or do a lot of cutting into your concrete. You will need to decide how extensive you want to make it.

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 18, 2016, 11:35
Bro, my point is the LX58 cost me $860 brand new. Are there any alternatives for 9.2 ch atmos amps selling around that price? will be very interested to know.

your mention of cutting into concrete is very scary. I thought it was just a matter of drilling holes in the ceiling and mounting the MS genies in. Any bro here got experience in drilling and then subsequently filling in the holes? Is it very troublesome to do so?

Also, the choice between 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 - seems that most websites prefer 5.1.4  - any views here? Thanks!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 18, 2016, 11:58
For $860, u got the best bang for buck value..
Some more, got box, n got warranty.
I believe no other Avr can match the price of $860, with box n warranty.
Cheers.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 18, 2016, 14:25
For $860, u got the best bang for buck value..
Some more, got box, n got warranty.
I believe no other Avr can match the price of $860, with box n warranty.
Cheers.

thanks bro. problem is no dts:x and pre-out to run 7.1.4 so now stuck with dilemma between 5.1.4 and 7.1.2. But i guess at this price must accept some compromises. starting out in AVR cannot overcommit yet.

cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 18, 2016, 15:15

......
your mention of cutting into concrete is very scary. I thought it was just a matter of drilling holes in the ceiling and mounting the MS genies in. Any bro here got experience in drilling and then subsequently filling in the holes? Is it very troublesome to do so?

Bro,
You have cute satellite speakers.
MS genies is lighter speaker so speaker bracket can be used than mount it directly to your ceiling... no need cut concrete.. just use bigger screws.

I wonder what amp will you be using it ? knowing your speakers are MS genies satellite.
I think you can hook up directly to speaker terminals (no need go through pre-out and no need ext amp).
Just use built in amp from AVR.. more then enough to drive your speakers... save money and save space.
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 18, 2016, 15:20
Bro,
You have cute satellite speakers.
MS genies is lighter speaker so speaker bracket can be used than mount it directly to your ceiling... no need cut concrete.. just use bigger screws.

I wonder what amp will you be using it ? knowing your speakers are MS genies satellite.
I think you can hook up directly to speaker terminals (no need go through pre-out and no need ext amp).
Just use built in amp from AVR.. more then enough to drive your speakers... save money and save space.
 ;D

thanks bro for your thoughts. I bought a SC LX58 - 9.2 channel receiver - want to pre out and expand to 11 channel also not possible.

limited to 9 channels. anyway, I am starting out only. will not use separate amp for now. and yes, MS genies are very very cute hahaha. hopefully mount on ceiling wont be too ugly.

still staying with parent so afraid even drilling hole after take out will be ugly. also intending to lay trunking directly overhead the MLP to the ceiling speakers and towards the back surround channels :)

this is only a bedroom setup to watch show and play music on my PC!!! hahaha worried that I too overkill already!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: DJQ on October 18, 2016, 15:31
bro andrewtjy, at least you got something started. back then when i was still staying with my parents i only got Creative 5.1  :P in my small square room.
holes can be covered and sealed with white cement. if you do not have the know how, get someone with tools and experience to drill the holes and mount the speakers for you. welcome to XPL...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 18, 2016, 15:37
bro andrewtjy, at least you got something started. back then when i was still staying with my parents i only got Creative 5.1  :P in my small square room.
holes can be covered and sealed with white cement. if you do not have the know how, get someone with tools and experience to drill the holes and mount the speakers for you. welcome to XPL...

thanks bro DJQ. I only started on HT in march this year. bought a used onkyo sr578 for 100 and klipsch quintet ii at 100 and hooked everything up to HDMI in my PC. before that using logitech z5500 and asus soundcard. sounded much better with the DTS MA decoding.

since then buy and sell until now decide to get a AVR costing almost 1k and installing speaker on ceiling for Atmos. This hobby really can drain alot of money and time one.

thanks for the welcome! people here are quite friendly and helpful from what I see :) 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 18, 2016, 15:37
thanks bro for your thoughts. I bought a SC LX58 - 9.2 channel receiver - want to pre out and expand to 11 channel also not possible.

limited to 9 channels. anyway, I am starting out only. will not use separate amp for now. and yes, MS genies are very very cute hahaha. hopefully mount on ceiling wont be too ugly.

still staying with parent so afraid even drilling hole after take out will be ugly. also intending to lay trunking directly overhead the MLP to the ceiling speakers and towards the back surround channels :)

this is only a bedroom setup to watch show and play music on my PC!!! hahaha worried that I too overkill already!

Seems your plan is too big bro for 11 channels setup.
You might need to consider your room size...
It wont be too good place your speakers to be too closed to each other....
My advise is 5.1.2 setup for you

Best is also seeking approval from your parent too then ask your dad whether he has drilling m/c.
He can also help you to drill. Invite him to watch movie once you have setup... Coffee and biscuit are good friend
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 18, 2016, 15:44
Seems your plan is too big bro for 11 channels setup.
You might need to consider your room size...
It wont be too good place your speakers to be too closed to each other....
My advise is 5.1.2 setup for you

Best is also seeking approval from your parent too then ask your dad whether he has drilling m/c.
He can also help you to drill. Invite him to watch movie once you have setup... Coffee and biscuit are good friend

working with installer to help mount the ceiling speaker and trunking for speaker cable... hopefully not too expensive.

parents dont watch movies one.. but i'm already in early 30s so think should be able to get the go ahead to install ceiling speaker.

anyway, are you using Atmos? worth it? heard it in the showroom and its damn amazing. of course showroom maybe specially setup to sound nice but the immersiveness of the music is like wowwww. 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 18, 2016, 16:40
working with installer to help mount the ceiling speaker and trunking for speaker cable... hopefully not too expensive.

parents dont watch movies one.. but i'm already in early 30s so think should be able to get the go ahead to install ceiling speaker.

anyway, are you using Atmos? worth it? heard it in the showroom and its damn amazing. of course showroom maybe specially setup to sound nice but the immersiveness of the music is like wowwww.

Nope.. 
I have been using Onkyo 5010 happily with PLIIz because I still couldn't find good replacement so far.
I could also hear "rain drop above me" and heavy thunder... old ONKYO is so powerful and dynamic.
 ;D

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 18, 2016, 16:46

anyway, are you using Atmos? worth it? heard it in the showroom and its damn amazing. of course showroom maybe specially setup to sound nice but the immersiveness of the music is like wowwww. 

You may want to pay a visit to Jag's place. Drop him a PM. He got a great Atmos setup and you can also learn from the master himself on HT setup.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 18, 2016, 17:50
U can visit me too..
I am not a master, but I try my best to sort of achieve it..
Like bro jag, I too have 8 ceiling speakers attached to ceiling n sidewall.
I stay in pasir Ris if u r located near the east side..
I am presently overseas.
Back tomorrow noon at 2pm..
Off days from Wednesday till Saturday.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 18, 2016, 17:55
thanks guys, appreciate it!

am at work these few days (raffles place) and stay west side and fri to sun out of country (installer coming next monday) so will not be able to take up all the kind offers :(

an alternative is to go reflection atmos (but this one need to visit bro Desray and then compare with Bro Jag and Cash's setup). one pair of pioneer atmos module only 99.98 USD on amazon now! with delivery hopefully not too expensive.

so its whether to drill holes and install 4 ceiling speakers or use 4 atmos modules  ??? really wish had time to go check out the bro's various setups. in the end may just have to throw dice and see what option better  ::)

 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 18, 2016, 18:04



(3) can't go the reflection route because as it is the distance between front to back is quite short (the distance between front and back is the shorter length of the rectangle). heck, the soundstage is quite limited already due to the distance between front and back - probably no more than 2.5 metres to begin with 
(4) since the room is short, do I go 5.1.4, 5.1.2 (and waste the extra two amplification channels which apparently cant be used to bi amp the front surrounds) or 7.1.2?


would love to hear the thoughts of all the experienced bros here - am I even wasting my time and money over this? my family does not have watch movies etc in the living room, so my PC is my home entertainment in my bedroom. is it abit too crazy to try build an atmos setup in the bedroom?


Regards
This part of the first post is important for everyone to see, before we share our tips and suggestions:


The front to back distance is 2.5m. Now will everyone give the same suggestions?
This is my reason why I suggested sticking with a simple 5.1 system, or 5.1.2 at the most..
Cheers  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 18, 2016, 20:43

an alternative is to go reflection atmos (but this one need to visit bro Desray and then compare with Bro Jag and Cash's setup). one pair of pioneer atmos module only 99.98 USD on amazon now! with delivery hopefully not too expensive.

so its whether to drill holes and install 4 ceiling speakers or use 4 atmos modules  ??? really wish had time to go check out the bro's various setups. in the end may just have to throw dice and see what option better  ::)

 

If you want to compare the "reflection" Atmos route with a ceiling one, you are welcome to have a listen. Drop me a pm.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 18, 2016, 20:47
This part of the first post is important for everyone to see, before we share our tips and suggestions:


The front to back distance is 2.5m. Now will everyone give the same suggestions?
This is my reason why I suggested sticking with a simple 5.1 system, or 5.1.2 at the most..
Cheers  ;D

+1
Agreed... I also suggested 5.1.2 due to his room condition
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 10:06
If you want to compare the "reflection" Atmos route with a ceiling one, you are welcome to have a listen. Drop me a pm.

Thanks very much for the kind offer, am out of the country from friday till sunday night, and unfortunately the installer will be coming on Monday.

May just have to take my chances the mordaunt short genie satellites are able to disperse sound effectively enough.

and also understand most of bros here saying 5.1.2 is the most I can go for given the size of the room (1m from MLP to rear surround and 1m to front surround). this means I waste 2 channels of amplification! (amp cannot bi-amp front channel and run atmos at the same time).

Does this mean if i go 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 it will be counterproductive?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on October 19, 2016, 10:11
Thanks very much for the kind offer, am out of the country from friday till sunday night, and unfortunately the installer will be coming on Monday.

May just have to take my chances the mordaunt short genie satellites are able to disperse sound effectively enough.

and also understand most of bros here saying 5.1.2 is the most I can go for given the size of the room (1m from MLP to rear surround and 1m to front surround). this means I waste 2 channels of amplification! (amp cannot bi-amp front channel and run atmos at the same time).

Does this mean if i go 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 it will be counterproductive?

Can go for front heights and wides.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 19, 2016, 10:22
Thanks very much for the kind offer, am out of the country from friday till sunday night, and unfortunately the installer will be coming on Monday.

May just have to take my chances the mordaunt short genie satellites are able to disperse sound effectively enough.

and also understand most of bros here saying 5.1.2 is the most I can go for given the size of the room (1m from MLP to rear surround and 1m to front surround). this means I waste 2 channels of amplification! (amp cannot bi-amp front channel and run atmos at the same time).

Does this mean if i go 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 it will be counterproductive?

Bro
1m to the front speaker?
That means that if you have a multi-way speaker, you will have phase issues since the sound wave from the woofer and tweeter will arrive at your ears at different times..
A full range speaker like the AG speakers will be better. But since you already have your speakers, it means that if you are a flexible person, when you do your sit and reach, you will be able to touch both front and back speakers!

Not ideal for a multi-speaker setup bro.. just being frank. It's not always 'more is better'.. but hey I will let the pros chip in and see what they say about the best way to utilise a 2m space..

BTW, maybe you want to rethink the demo sessions ;) You may end up buying a new home just to make the sound better - heh...

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 10:41
Bro
1m to the front speaker?
That means that if you have a multi-way speaker, you will have phase issues since the sound wave from the woofer and tweeter will arrive at your ears at different times..
A full range speaker like the AG speakers will be better. But since you already have your speakers, it means that if you are a flexible person, when you do your sit and reach, you will be able to touch both front and back speakers!

Not ideal for a multi-speaker setup bro.. just being frank. It's not always 'more is better'.. but hey I will let the pros chip in and see what they say about the best way to utilise a 2m space..

BTW, maybe you want to rethink the demo sessions ;) You may end up buying a new home just to make the sound better - heh...

hahaha well:

(1) I only started with this hobby in may this year so compared to PC speakers this is a huge leap forward already
(2) am using full range speakers actually - http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio-visual/speaker-systems/home-speaker-systems/ns-555_black__g/?mode=model and ya I know that not enough space from speaker to MLP but given my constraints nothing I can do.
(3) I'm currently using 7.1 already - 2 front surrounds, one centre, 2 side surrounds and 2 back surrounds. the side surrounds are like 0.3-0.4m from where I sit
(4) I havent really spent too much on this hobby, yet, so even if the solution is imperfect not a great loss. I just want to maximise the utility of my solution as much as possible. Total spent including this AVR probably not more than 1.6k to date.
(5) Currently staying with parents so will definitely buy new home. income ceiling can't buy hdb with gf, so now waiting for pty market to sink abit more and look for a older private place with nice square rooms that can fit HT systems hahaha. so this atmos solution I am doing is only a temporary solution.

I just need answers to the following:

(a) 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 (assume I really really wana maximise the 9 channels from this AVR)
(b) 1m from MLP to front and back I assume not enough distance to go the reflection route right?

Thanks and will let everyone know how things are after the installation
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on October 19, 2016, 10:48
Answering your qn....

If I were you,
a) 7.1.2
b)  Before you make your decision for reflection or not, do visit HTs from forumers here. After hearing  for yourself ceiling vs reflection ATMOS, you make the final and informed decision.

I'm using ceiling mounted. So you are welcome to visit mine this weekend.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on October 19, 2016, 10:53
Answering your qn....

If I were you,
a) 7.1.2
b)  Before you make your decision for reflection or not, do visit HTs from forumers here. After hearing  for yourself ceiling vs reflection ATMOS, you make the final and informed decision.

I'm using ceiling mounted. So you are welcome to visit mine this weekend.

Haha. Don't get poison by bro Jag's setup though.

Once you heard his, there's no turning back.

Cheers.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: DJQ on October 19, 2016, 11:37
Answering your qn....

If I were you,
a) 7.1.2
b)  Before you make your decision for reflection or not, do visit HTs from forumers here. After hearing  for yourself ceiling vs reflection ATMOS, you make the final and informed decision.

I'm using ceiling mounted. So you are welcome to visit mine this weekend.

Bro Jag, i am considering 7.1.4
with 4 ceiling speakers, is it correct to say we no longer need 4 surround rear speakers? i remember before atmos came, rear surrounds comes with height surrounds? very much like front height ? so surround back and side can be located at just above ear levels?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on October 19, 2016, 11:38
I'd say immersive (ATMOS of DTS:X) formats are good if the setup is done properly.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 19, 2016, 11:43
Bro Jag, i am considering 7.1.4
with 4 ceiling speakers, is it correct to say we no longer need 4 surround rear speakers? i remember before atmos came, rear surrounds comes with height surrounds? very much like front height ? so surround back and side can be located at just above ear levels?
If I may interject bro:
The side & rear surrounds do a very different role..
The new sound is at two levels. The heights / ceilings do a vastly different role.
The side and rears handle most of the actual immersion. You can actually do an experiment, and switch off the surrounds and see.. cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 11:58
I would very much like to visit the various kind bros here that offered, but I am out of the country from friday coming back late sunday and installer is coming on monday.

so dont even have a pocket of time where I can hear for myself and decide.

so between 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 i guess 7.1.2 is the overwhelming recommendation from the bros here? Thats what the salesman at audiohouse recommended too. guess I will go with it though every online page recommends 5.1.4 (though I guess thats for larger rooms)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on October 19, 2016, 12:07
If your MLP is sticking close to back wall. You are good at 5.1.4


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: tomok on October 19, 2016, 14:37
I did an experiment and install the elac Dolby Atmos speaker which I bought two months back and install them as front height speaker after playing with reflection for a while.
Seems okay.
Now I have four channels on the ceiling with two elac cinema sat 2 as rear height.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 14:44
If your MLP is sticking close to back wall. You are good at 5.1.4


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

my MLP is 1m from the front surrounds, the front surrounds are almost touching the front wall (gave abit of space cos bass ported).

1m from the rear surrounds, the rear surrounds are 0.3/4m from the back wall itself.

umm... so this means can go 5.1.4? 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 14:45
I did an experiment and install the elac Dolby Atmos speaker which I bought two months back and install them as front height speaker after playing with reflection for a while.
Seems okay.
Now I have four channels on the ceiling with two elac cinema sat 2 as rear height.

so you bought reflection speakers but gave up on reflection route, and are now using them as rear heights?

and you installed dedicated ceiling speakers?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on October 19, 2016, 14:53
my MLP is 1m from the front surrounds, the front surrounds are almost touching the front wall (gave abit of space cos bass ported).

1m from the rear surrounds, the rear surrounds are 0.3/4m from the back wall itself.

umm... so this means can go 5.1.4? 

Hope the link below can help you decide which is the best option.

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

Unfortunately, space is a premium in SG.

so gonna go for the best layout which sounds best and of course, WAF approved.

Especially ceiling mounted speakers.  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 15:39
Hope the link below can help you decide which is the best option.

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

Unfortunately, space is a premium in SG.

so gonna go for the best layout which sounds best and of course, WAF approved.

Especially ceiling mounted speakers.  ;D

I read that already, it basically states the best dolby experience is 5.1.4 or 7.1.4

but there are bros here advising to go for 5.1.2 - so very curious to find out whether 5.1.4 is counterproductive e.g. does it sound worse than 5.1.2? Thanks!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 19, 2016, 15:50
u should try 5.1.8!!
super spread of butter overhead!! Smooth!!!
hehehehehe!!!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 15:55
not enough channels, need to go low end unlike you and your high end system  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 19, 2016, 15:56
hehehehehehehe!!!!!
 :) ;) :D ;D ;D :D ;) :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: spells on October 19, 2016, 16:09
it depends on your room size, for me i change from 5.2.4 to 5.1.2 hahaha my room small
small so it don't sound so messy for me :P
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on October 19, 2016, 17:28
You can have as many channel as you like even in a small room , even the editing room is not really that Big .
The Question is where to you sit ? that is no use for a 13 channel immersive sound but you are sitting in a corner or close to touching the rear wall ;)
if your top 4 spk are not surrounding where you sit , that is no point to have 4 .
If you die die must have 4 top channel , so be prepare to have the 2 top rear and 2 rear  mess out the immersive feel you pay for.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 19, 2016, 20:16
Bro Jag, i am considering 7.1.4
with 4 ceiling speakers, is it correct to say we no longer need 4 surround rear speakers? i remember before atmos came, rear surrounds comes with height surrounds? very much like front height ? so surround back and side can be located at just above ear levels?

That's right...you can do that but never omit the surround speakers. NEVER NEVER DO THAT.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 19, 2016, 20:31
I would very much like to visit the various kind bros here that offered, but I am out of the country from friday coming back late sunday and installer is coming on monday.

so dont even have a pocket of time where I can hear for myself and decide.

so between 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 i guess 7.1.2 is the overwhelming recommendation from the bros here? Thats what the salesman at audiohouse recommended too. guess I will go with it though every online page recommends 5.1.4 (though I guess thats for larger rooms)

There's nothing wrong with 7.1.2 or 5.1.4. The key is how you gonna place your ceiling speakers. The simple idea of immersive audio lies with the fact that you are able to "discern" the sound in 2 axis. Front and Rear + Top and bottom. Think of it as a sphere or 3-Dimension. You DO NOT sacrifice any of the 2 axis. The moment you sit slightly far out say towards the front, you will "lose" out on the "rear". The "top" should still be able to retain its "height" sensation albeit not as distinct as you hope to make out of it.

Many members tends to see this 3D audio formats in 2D plane - i.e. Top vs Bottom but failed to factor in the Front and the Rear. If you really want sound coming from above. Simple logic tells you to place the speakers ABOVE you but that's not what 3D audio immersion is all about. DO bear that in mind.

The most fundamental questions that you should ASK yourself at this point...Am I going to stay at my parent's place for long? And always remember, "flexibility is for Atmos reflection speakers while effectiveness is for ceiling speakers". Put it simply, you can always change your seating position as and when you want w/o the need to be concern about the speaker placement since it can be easily displaced to suit your needs whereas ceiling speaker placement will "affixed" you firmly to where you are supposed to seat (less mobility and flexibility if you decide to change your seating arrangement).
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 19, 2016, 20:32
Bro
1m to the front speaker?
That means that if you have a multi-way speaker, you will have phase issues since the sound wave from the woofer and tweeter will arrive at your ears at different times..
A full range speaker like the AG speakers will be better. But since you already have your speakers, it means that if you are a flexible person, when you do your sit and reach, you will be able to touch both front and back speakers!

Not ideal for a multi-speaker setup bro.. just being frank. It's not always 'more is better'.. but hey I will let the pros chip in and see what they say about the best way to utilise a 2m space..

BTW, maybe you want to rethink the demo sessions ;) You may end up buying a new home just to make the sound better - heh...



I can't agree more with Pete on this...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 19, 2016, 21:37
Thanks to all the Bros for chipping in. The sense of community and sharing here is very strong!

May I then ask- is it possible for the Pioneer modules to work when they are placed on front speakers barely less than 1m from the mlp? Thanks!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 19, 2016, 22:56
Thanks to all the Bros for chipping in. The sense of community and sharing here is very strong!

May I then ask- is it possible for the Pioneer modules to work when they are placed on front speakers barely less than 1m from the mlp? Thanks!

Unfortunately it is HARD to tell. At 1m, it is NOT RECOMMENDED as the baffle for a typical Atmos enabled speaker module is around 70 degree angle which translates to an optimum distance between the front and rear speaker modules away from the MLP at about 1.2 to 1.5m minimally. At barely 1m or less, this may pose a problem in getting the reflected sound to provide you with a distinct separation between the front and the rear axis. For height, I dun foresee any issue as long as your ceiling height is around 2.6m (min) to 3.2m (max) if you live in HDB flat.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: DJQ on October 20, 2016, 13:14
That's right...you can do that but never omit the surround speakers. NEVER NEVER DO THAT.


Noted, i originally planned for 2 rear surrounds, 2 rear height surrounds and 2 side surrounds. for Atmos setup i think there will be no signal for rear surround height? hence ideally i will just have 2 rear surrounds and 2 side surrounds.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 20, 2016, 14:14
Thinking about PLIIz vs Atmos...
Both are products of Dolby.
Both are also program which was written by Dolby in order to control AVR to perform.
How about surround effect which we can hear while watching bluray movie? who control for surr effects? film maker or Dolby?
I wonder whether it is marketing gimmicks. I also heard about rumors said Dolby is going to replace Atmos  :o
that's why company making more profit.

I suspect Dolby increase gain much higher for their Atmos that's  why user can hear clearer/louder compare to PLIIz but surr effect is still remain bcoz it is controlled by movie maker.

How about DTS-MA vs DTS:X?
Did you hear significantly different?

Your thoughts pls
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 20, 2016, 21:18
Thinking about PLIIz vs Atmos...
Both are products of Dolby.
Both are also program which was written by Dolby in order to control AVR to perform.
How about surround effect which we can hear while watching bluray movie? who control for surr effects? film maker or Dolby?
I wonder whether it is marketing gimmicks. I also heard about rumors said Dolby is going to replace Atmos  :o
that's why company making more profit.

I suspect Dolby increase gain much higher for their Atmos that's  why user can hear clearer/louder compare to PLIIz but surr effect is still remain bcoz it is controlled by movie maker.

How about DTS-MA vs DTS:X?
Did you hear significantly different?

Your thoughts pls

You are aware that it becomes relatively harder for existing Atmos users to make comparisons with ProLogic IIz which is NOT a native audio format but a DSP mode. DSU, on the other hand should be compared with ProLogic IIz instead...as DSU or Dolby Surround Upmixer is a DSP mode created by Dolby...the sad part is Dolby supercede the ProLogic IIz with the newer DSU which prevented existing users to make any kind of objective assessment.

I dunno where you get the "rumors" that Dolby is going to "replace" Atmos? Any link to show?  :o

Again I dunno why did you say Dolby deliberately make the Atmos modules/speakers sound louder? For Atmos reflection speaker modules, there is a built-in frequency band to enhance the HTRF to re-create the sensation of height but it does not "increase" the gain. On the contrary, users will need to crank up the gain for the Atmos module to get more sound output to get the "reflection" to work even more convincing.

For DTS:X like its Atmos brethren, it is "object-based" unlike the HD lossless format - i.e. DTS-HD MSTR or Dolby TrueHD. If the sound mixer for the bluray release decides to mix in Atmos/DTS:X, it will sound better than the traditional HD lossless audio formats. Whether will you hear any distinct difference, it comes down to the way the movie is mixed.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 20, 2016, 21:37
Actually the idea is not to crank up the ceiling speakers to make them too obvious. YMMV and different people have different tastes, but it's about an involving experience, rather than simply trying to make the Atmos speakers stand out because you paid for them. Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on October 20, 2016, 23:06
I actually crank up my overhead speakers by a 3-4dB because my mileage varies. :)

I don't think many folks like how I boost them up.

But do whatever to your setup that makes you smile.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 20, 2016, 23:09
I tried your settings bro, but I backed off the dial a bit.. :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on October 20, 2016, 23:13
Both Pete & Jag setup sounds great; each with their own unique sonic signature.  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 20, 2016, 23:16
Both Pete & Jag setup sounds great; each with their own unique sonic signature.  ;D
Different sonic signature, perhaps.. but Jag's is the best Atmos system (haven't heard bro Desray's - gotta get an invite  ;)   )
Tour de force in surround AND bass. That bass - phew.. tight and forceful. Only bro Jason has more SPL and chest crushing..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 21, 2016, 10:21
Different sonic signature, perhaps.. but Jag's is the best Atmos system (haven't heard bro Desray's - gotta get an invite  ;)    )
Tour de force in surround AND bass. That bass - phew.. tight and forceful. Only bro Jason has more SPL and chest crushing..

Bro, my sound setup is so-so only...I assure you that you are not missing anything here. :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 21, 2016, 10:24
actually when bro Joagib tuned his 4 Hsu uls15mkII subs, that had the the best ever spl feel I have ever felt n heard...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: joagib on October 21, 2016, 11:15
I actually crank up my overhead speakers by a 3-4dB because my mileage varies. :)

I don't think many folks like how I boost them up.

But do whatever to your setup that makes you smile.

Yes! I like it Jag...
Really depends on the distance/efficiency of speaker.
Previouly mine I crank up 3db as the hdb ceiling is not that high but for a bro system(Penthouse high ceiling) that I help him to setup,I did crank up 5-6db,matching the spl readings taken from MLP accordingly.
For some friends that i visited have very soft atmos sounding as they doesnt like the atmos to sound too obvious,its their taste.
For me* I like the atmos to sound louder in order to become lifelike to create the atmospheric feel of the surrounding during certain scene like raindrops/thunderstorms/helicopters..etc.
this is what I think atmos speakers is created for....
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 21, 2016, 12:12
Bro, my sound setup is so-so only...I assure you that you are not missing anything here. :)
I think there is much to learn about tuning and calibration from you.. cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on October 21, 2016, 12:22
I actually crank up my overhead speakers by a 3-4dB because my mileage varies. :)

I don't think many folks like how I boost them up.

But do whatever to your setup that makes you smile.
Second that, i cranked mine up as well, it is more engaging and resolving. Creating a fuller layer above the MLP.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 21, 2016, 14:39
Ha ha, indeed to each his own. Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on October 21, 2016, 17:25
Ah, Tiktokape system also very the powderful with the KK sub.
Love the 'Hero' demo and promptly got the Bluray the next few days after searching high and low locally. Hehe..
And my ceiling speakers position mirror his style also.  ;D
Yeah, Desray system is next to audition. Hehehe.. :D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 21, 2016, 17:49
Ah, Tiktokape system also very the powderful with the KK sub.
Love the 'Hero' demo and promptly got the Bluray the next few days after searching high and low locally. Hehe..
And my ceiling speakers position mirror his style also.  ;D
Yeah, Desray system is next to audition. Hehehe.. :D


Bro, my sound setup is so-so only...I assure you that you are not missing anything here. :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on October 25, 2016, 11:03
I wonder whether can find users of these speakers here?

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation

It looks good ler....  8)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 25, 2016, 12:15
just had a visit from an installer - very nice and honest guy, would recommend him.

in short, my atmos dream is dead. room not suitable for ceiling speakers because the front and back length from the MLP is insufficient. from what I understand, there is insufficient distance to install ceiling speakers such that there is the effect of sound moving from front channels to ceiling then to surround channels. the proximity of the ceiling speakers to the front and surrounds would lead to sound bleeding into each other and lose the atmos effect.

another alternative was suggested - since I have surround speakers on a stand at ear level, to use those surrounds as atmos speakers. also to have two additional surround speakers as atmos speakers too. hence a 5.1.4 but with 2 of the 4 atmos at ear level and the other two on the desk where my screen is, pointing up towards the MLP.

the installer said spending money to install ceiling speakers would be a waste and suggested this solution. sigh. now questioning my wisdom on spending for the LX58. 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 25, 2016, 13:35
A lesson learnt. I don't anyone who actually noted your back to front distance would have suggested Atmos. Maybe 5.1.2, but that's a stretch too.
The LX 58 is a decent amp. And in a small room, you don't need more than 5.1 - which is what I have been saying from the beginning.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sigurros on October 25, 2016, 13:50
A lesson learnt. I don't anyone who actually noted your back to front distance would have suggested Atmos. Maybe 5.1.2, but that's a stretch too.
The LX 58 is a decent amp. And in a small room, you don't need more than 5.1 - which is what I have been saying from the beginning.

Agreed.

Maybe you like to post a layout plan of your proposed setup, so bros here will able to advice better.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: nic_wei on October 25, 2016, 14:05
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/nicwei/FB04C405-94AD-4163-97F0-6A84A852BE1F.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/nicwei/media/FB04C405-94AD-4163-97F0-6A84A852BE1F.jpg.html)

Installed ceiling speaker last weekend. Need sometime to running in the speaker.  :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 25, 2016, 17:46
sigh why are the responses so negative.

so I "learnt" my lesson - what is the lesson here? don't pursue audio at all? or don't seek immersive solutions with not enough space?

didn't know audio and HT got such a high barrier of entry. I consider my "lesson learnt"
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 25, 2016, 17:54
Bro
Do you want someone to tell you it's fabulous and wonderful, then you spend money on renovations only to discover it's a wasted effort?
Sorry I am not that kind of person.
It is out of concern.
If you listen to all the suggestions to spend thousands and buy amps, speakers and more only to realize it's not good for your room, you may curse and swear then.
Did you really want us to tell you a two meter room is good for 7.1.2 or more?
Hmmm "immersive" sound?

What do you consider immersive? 7.1.4 is the goal? Then more space is needed. 5.1 in a small space is pretty good, and can be very good for music and movies.
One last time: sometimes, less is best.. cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: askarmelayu on October 25, 2016, 22:43
 4 ceiling atmos speakers in a 5.1.4 setup in a standard bedroom BTO  (3.6m by  2.7m by 2.7m), can this be achieved audio-wise?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on October 25, 2016, 23:43
askarmelayu, yes can be achieved.
Still distinct separation when doing the Helicopter demo sound.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Tiktokape on October 26, 2016, 00:06
My HT/MLP is within a small space of (3.6m x 2.8m) where it is located living room (3.6m x 6m). I'm on 5.1.4 setup, MLP is roughly 1 foot away from back wall, not ideally but still can achieve very decent HT experience. My ceiling speakers are located at each corner of the ceiling aimed toward MLP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 26, 2016, 00:32
just had a visit from an installer - very nice and honest guy, would recommend him.

in short, my atmos dream is dead. room not suitable for ceiling speakers because the front and back length from the MLP is insufficient. from what I understand, there is insufficient distance to install ceiling speakers such that there is the effect of sound moving from front channels to ceiling then to surround channels. the proximity of the ceiling speakers to the front and surrounds would lead to sound bleeding into each other and lose the atmos effect.

another alternative was suggested - since I have surround speakers on a stand at ear level, to use those surrounds as atmos speakers. also to have two additional surround speakers as atmos speakers too. hence a 5.1.4 but with 2 of the 4 atmos at ear level and the other two on the desk where my screen is, pointing up towards the MLP.

the installer said spending money to install ceiling speakers would be a waste and suggested this solution. sigh. now questioning my wisdom on spending for the LX58. 

If you can, drop by my place and have a listen at the Atmos reflection and best if you can join my Audyssey calibration workshop this Fri. Take a few snapshots of your HT setup including your MLP etc and show it to me.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 26, 2016, 12:27
sigh why are the responses so negative.

so I "learnt" my lesson - what is the lesson here? don't pursue audio at all? or don't seek immersive solutions with not enough space?

didn't know audio and HT got such a high barrier of entry. I consider my "lesson learnt"

Walau.. you sounded so pathetic bro.
When you read back your old comments, your plan was 11 channels setup with cutie speakers in small room
that's why I proposed  to go for 5.1.2 and 'warned' you on speakers placement (too close to each other might not be good)



Bro
Do you want someone to tell you it's fabulous and wonderful, then you spend money on renovations only to discover it's a wasted effort?
Sorry I am not that kind of person.
It is out of concern.
If you listen to all the suggestions to spend thousands and buy amps, speakers and more only to realize it's not good for your room, you may curse and swear then.
Did you really want us to tell you a two meter room is good for 7.1.2 or more?
Hmmm "immersive" sound?

What do you consider immersive? 7.1.4 is the goal? Then more space is needed. 5.1 in a small space is pretty good, and can be very good for music and movies.
One last time: sometimes, less is best.. cheers

yeah.. so now seems he is pointing fingers out by saying consider my "lesson learnt"
True.. he should learnt not to plan high in small room (dream can be high)... start from simple setup with limited budget and must be more realistic.
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 26, 2016, 15:54
where on earth did I point any fingers?

I sound pathetic? you are free to say whatever you wish from your high horse.

what on earth is wrong with trying to maximise as much as possible and asking members here how it can be done? If it cant be done it cant be done. Advice was given and received.

How does it end up with me "learning my lesson" and sounding "pathetic"?

old man want lao lan and feel superior to newbies very easy. learning compassion and humility is much harder.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 26, 2016, 15:56
If you can, drop by my place and have a listen at the Atmos reflection and best if you can join my Audyssey calibration workshop this Fri. Take a few snapshots of your HT setup including your MLP etc and show it to me.

thanks much for your kind offer though I am at work till pretty late. will take you up on your kind offer and take pictures of MLP for your kind consideration when I can.

Grateful for your kind offer to view your setup and to help. Much more helpful than putting me down and telling me I learnt my lesson, or sound pathetic like the way some other members have done here.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 26, 2016, 16:13

I sound pathetic? you are free to say whatever you wish from your high horse.

what on earth is wrong with trying to maximise as much as possible and asking members here how it can be done? If it cant be done it cant be done. Advice was given and received.

How does it end up with me "learning my lesson" and sounding "pathetic"?

old man want lao lan and feel superior to newbies very easy. learning compassion and humility is much harder.
Bro chill, I just what to warn you in no uncertain terms, so you avoid being carried away, and spend more without the rewards.
Bro Desray has a solid setup and will give you a lot of info.

But I repeat my warning here..
His room is different from yours. In order to recreate the immersive experience, you need a big room to add Atmos.
Otherwise 5.1 can be rewarding too.
All the best, and it's your room ultimately, so you can take anything I say with a pinch of salt. Cheers
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 26, 2016, 16:27
Bro chill, I just what to warn you in no uncertain terms, so you avoid being carried away, and spend more without the rewards.
Bro Desray has a solid setup and will give you a lot of info.

But I repeat my warning here..
His room is different from yours. In order to recreate the immersive experience, you need a big room to add Atmos.
Otherwise 5.1 can be rewarding too.
All the best, and it's your room ultimately, so you can take anything I say with a pinch of salt. Cheers

thank you for your clarification its much appreciated.

I have not spent much yet and I am very cautious about my spending. Can easily spend tens of thousands but I only go for value for now (hence the cheap LX58), and I took the installers recommendation not to install ceiling speakers. Therefore was slightly offended by that comment.

If I wanted to go overboard, ignore what everyone is telling me, and still go ahead to install and then come back and complain the results are not good, then I think I deserve my lesson :)

cheers and thanks again.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: DJQ on October 26, 2016, 16:55
bro can pm who is your installer? creditable? there is a basic way to do it and a high end professional way to do it.
just make your 5.1 solid 1st. and enjoy. with spare spks then go 7.1
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 26, 2016, 21:30
Andrew, I believed all the members here are trying to help. Some comments may came across as blunt but definitely valid and I'm glad that you do take heed of the comments. Don't give yourself a hard time over this. The key is to enjoy NOT to to be overly concerned about the gears etc. I dun believe in spending lots of $$$$ in high end HT equipment. Unfortunately there's not many viable choice to choose from IF there is only certain make and model which have what you seek.

Meanwhile, try to assimilate whatever you learned from this forum and go ahead with your installation, the way you wanted. After all, you are the one who is gonna enjoy it. With a little bit of planning and understanding (which I bet you already learnt your "lessons" as in tips) you must be better "equipped" with knowledge compared when you first posted in this thread.

Wish you all the best!
 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 26, 2016, 21:40
Bro Desray will give you plenty of tips.
If you need more poison and wish to spend more cash you can then pm me :)
thank you for your clarification its much appreciated.

I have not spent much yet and I am very cautious about my spending. Can easily spend tens of thousands but I only go for value for now (hence the cheap LX58), and I took the installers recommendation not to install ceiling speakers. Therefore was slightly offended by that comment.

If I wanted to go overboard, ignore what everyone is telling me, and still go ahead to install and then come back and complain the results are not good, then I think I deserve my lesson :)

cheers and thanks again.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on October 26, 2016, 22:28
Andrew, could you post your floorplan of the room?

Indicate where the screen is and where your MLP will be.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 27, 2016, 09:54
thanks all who have responded positively.

let me take a picture when I can - not sure if I can obtain floorplans as the place was built almost 30 years ago, but will try. Thanks!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 27, 2016, 17:32
thanks all who have responded positively.

let me take a picture when I can - not sure if I can obtain floorplans as the place was built almost 30 years ago, but will try. Thanks!

Just snapshots of the listening area will do lar...no need floorplan or blueprint schematic drawings etc.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on October 27, 2016, 18:59
Might as well draw by hand, the length and width of your room. Indicate the door and window locations.

Take a pic of that and your room. I'm sure something can be done to put a HT of your dreams.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 11:48
reviving an old thread, and posting as a newbie...

took my first steps on atmos yesterday and got a BNIB pioneer sc-lx58 from audiohouse at $850. heard atmos for the first time in the demo room and got quite hooked. I know it usually sounds better in the showroom but the room didnt seem to have any special treatment.

Not sure if that is a good buy because this is a 2 year old model, but compared to all the other 2nd hand receivers being sold and the x4200w at 1200 being cleared by alpha audio this seemed to be the best 9.2 option out there. please feel free to advise me otherwise cos I still have a 7 day money return policy.

now, need to mount two ceiling speakers, trunk and calibrate. on the basis that this setup is for me to watch movies on my PC and is installed in a rectangular bedroom, few questions:

(1) mordaunt short genie satellites ok as ceiling speakers? not fussy about matching with my yamaha ns 555, ns 333 and c444 speakers.
(2) installing ceiling speakers - just how bad is it to do so? still staying with parents unfortunately, not moving out so soon, am concerned about how irreversible the ceiling drilling process will be. also since the satellites are heavy, not sure if installing these things directly over your head is safe or not :P
(3) can't go the reflection route because as it is the distance between front to back is quite short (the distance between front and back is the shorter length of the rectangle). heck, the soundstage is quite limited already due to the distance between front and back - probably no more than 2.5 metres to begin with 
(4) since the room is short, do I go 5.1.4, 5.1.2 (and waste the extra two amplification channels which apparently cant be used to bi amp the front surrounds) or 7.1.2?

would love to hear the thoughts of all the experienced bros here - am I even wasting my time and money over this? my family does not have watch movies etc in the living room, so my PC is my home entertainment in my bedroom. is it abit too crazy to try build an atmos setup in the bedroom? Also, any response to my questions above and my choice of receiver would be appreciated!

Regards

U bought the lx58 at $850, as it says in your post...
Hmmmm.....
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 13:05
don't put other peoples sales post down...
u wanna sell, u sell...
how does it feel now that i have put in my 2cents worth?
be nice, to receive nice...
cheers!!
 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 13:15
jus for everyone's info... when bro Matahari was selling his rz900, n i posted $1 less than his..
i know him...(bro Matahari) he came to my place to audition the RZ3100 which i have now too...
it was done in fun...
what is a dollar less?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 28, 2016, 13:16
yes, for $850 brand new there aren't many 9.2 channel atmos amps out there (any suggestions?).

look at the 2nd hand prices here e.g. 1599 for an 7.2 rz900 without box and warranty.


...  but seems he is good salesman too....$850 become $980

don't put other peoples sales post down...
u wanna sell, u sell...
how does it feel now that i have put in my 2cents worth?
be nice, to receive nice...
cheers!!
 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Agreed bro...
He is newbie but ... He really need to learn about ethic also...  need to report to mod.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240898.0
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 28, 2016, 13:21
Andrew, I believed all the members here are trying to help. Some comments may came across as blunt but definitely valid and I'm glad that you do take heed of the comments. Don't give yourself a hard time over this. The key is to enjoy NOT to to be overly concerned about the gears etc. I dun believe in spending lots of $$$$ in high end HT equipment. Unfortunately there's not many viable choice to choose from IF there is only certain make and model which have what you seek.

Meanwhile, try to assimilate whatever you learned from this forum and go ahead with your installation, the way you wanted. After all, you are the one who is gonna enjoy it. With a little bit of planning and understanding (which I bet you already learnt your "lessons" as in tips) you must be better "equipped" with knowledge compared when you first posted in this thread.

Wish you all the best!

Bro Desray
He purposely stir up the situation
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240898.0
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 13:23
no need to get mod's involved...(they are oredi busy with lots of other issues i am sure) too many bot's thread to get rid off...
its a open for all to see kind of thing...
sad to see this kind of issues happening...
thats my take on it...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 13:38
do remember...
i have time.... n some disposable income to spend for my toys...
i do not need to be desperate to sell my stuff....
yes, i do get pm n sms saying the new price is this n that...
but i will stick to my price...
jus like how i buy my stuff too...
quick n without hassle...
once i know its a good buy, i buy it!
i will try asking only once if can get discount.. if can't, i still end up buying it.
thats my style...
i don't like to ask so many questions...
no warranty n no box does not make it a worthless buy...
thats my view.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 28, 2016, 13:41
jus for everyone's info... when bro Matahari was selling his rz900, n i posted $1 less than his..
i know him...(bro Matahari) he came to my place to audition the RZ3100 which i have now too...
it was done in fun...
what is a dollar less?

I do not have to justify my sales post just like you don't have to justify it. I bought it at 800 plus delivery of 50 and cash vouchers given to me for my bday. Even if I were making money (which I am not), it's not illegal, right?

And CASH, if my post is an issue to you, you then go ahead and do the same thing. So your response to others doing something you think is wrong is to do the exact same wrong thing? That makes alot of sense.

And Cleadett, I didn't go running crying to mods when you directly used the term "pathetic" on me. I post a sales thread and you suddenly run to mods? If you can dish out insults to others, you can't deal with my thread on its terms?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 28, 2016, 13:48
...  but seems he is good salesman too....$850 become $980

Agreed bro...
He is newbie but ... He really need to learn about ethic also...  need to report to mod.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240898.0

If I need to learn ethics (and I did not link directly to your sales post unlike your good friend CASH), and btw CASH did the exact same thing to diss on my post, you need to learn manners before calling people out for being pathetic. If you can report my ethics to the mod is there anyway for me to report your manners to your parents?

I hope the mods look at things in totality and fairness here - hope my newness to this forum doesn't count against me. Impolite name calling is still name calling whether or not it comes from junior or senior members
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kelvinsin on October 28, 2016, 13:58
If I need to learn ethics (and I did not link directly to your sales post unlike your good friend CASH), and btw CASH did the exact same thing to diss on my post, you need to learn manners before calling people out for being pathetic. If you can report my ethics to the mod is there anyway for me to report your manners to your parents?

I hope the mods look at things in totality and fairness here - hope my newness to this forum doesn't count against me. Impolite name calling is still name calling whether or not it comes from junior or senior members
As an outsider, i give you a warm hug with thumbs up.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 28, 2016, 14:09
As an outsider, i give you a warm hug with thumbs up.

Thanks for your kind words, was starting to feel discouraged because certain members can get away with comparing sales posts and saying his sale is a dollar less, and then one month later doing the exact same thing saying his sale is better than mine. He says his sale is "much more better" than mine, all I said was to compare the options, and I did not say mine was "much more better".

If my post needs to be reported to the mods then what about CASH's post which is worse? Grammatically it's also very wrong- "much more better"

Him doing that is ok, and the moment I do that a certain member immediately wants to run to the mods. Why is it he can do it and I can't? Why is it I can be called "pathetic" and nothing happens? Then the moment I post a sales post people are whining and calling in the mods? Is it a question of seniority? Or is it because I'm an "outsider"?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cleadett on October 28, 2016, 16:27
I do not have to justify my sales post just like you don't have to justify it. I bought it at 800 plus delivery of 50 and cash vouchers given to me for my bday. Even if I were making money (which I am not), it's not illegal, right?

And CASH, if my post is an issue to you, you then go ahead and do the same thing. So your response to others doing something you think is wrong is to do the exact same wrong thing? That makes alot of sense.

And Cleadett, I didn't go running crying to mods when you directly used the term "pathetic" on me. I post a sales thread and you suddenly run to mods? If you can dish out insults to others, you can't deal with my thread on its terms?

It depend on you.. how you read term "pathetic". You read it negatively that's why you think I insulted you.
If I do really want to insult you then why I took my time to share my opinion and advised you to go for simple setup.
Pls take your time to read again your previous comments before Bro Des and Pete advised you.

Why not we go back to your problem... and stop this.
all of us want to be a good member.
Bro Jag is waiting for your hand drawing, the length and width of your room.
if you wont mind to include photo of location of your Pioneer AVR and centre speaker to MLP



fyi, I don't even know bro Cash...
pls don't check my grammar.. I didn't score good enough for my English.. Barely passed nia  ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 28, 2016, 17:12
I can't believe I am doing this...I dun even know where to start and what to say. So I am going to put it as specific as possible here! Do it yourself or I'll do it for you.

To: andrewtjy - remove your comments on the Onkyo NR809 in your sale thread here: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240898.0 (http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240898.0)

To: Cash - remove your comments on the Pioneer LX58 in your sale thread here: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240908.0 (http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240908.0)

To: Cleadett - please stop responding. Your comments and advice have been duly noted. It is up to andrewtjy whether he wants to do it or not. Remember this, we dun owe anyone anything or any favors. In all fairness, your choice of word, "pathetic" can come across as too blunt, I believed a little tact in the choice of words could have prevented all of this.

To: andrewtjy - the moment you decide to "retaliate" in the form of posting unnecessary remarks targeting at Cleadett's Onkyo NR809 sale thread already make it very clear that you are "looking for" some form of "response" from the OPs. I agreed that to a certain degree, Cleadett's remarks could be viewed as a little "hostile" but there is no reason for you to "retaliate" by making uncalled for remarks to his sale post. This doesn't make you any better from the one that "offended" you.

When it comes to forum postings, this is ALWAYS the problem when words itself doesn't bring across the underlying meaning and "feelings". This is why the choice of words used is important if you do not want to hurt the feelings of others. I expect the "old birds" (seniors) to lead by example and "defuse" the predicament instead of "adding fuel" to it. Yes, I am talking about you, Cash.

Get your act together everyone!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 17:20
old bird Cash has edited n removed that line..
hehehehe!
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 28, 2016, 17:27
old bird Cash has edited n removed that line..
hehehehe!
 ;D

Appreciated.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on October 28, 2016, 17:32
no worries...
cheers!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: andrewtjy on October 28, 2016, 17:46
I respect the mod's views and have done as stated.

I would point out however that various posts in this thread serve as a backdoor way to affect the sales post.

Its telling how:

(1) one can term me pathetic, accuse me of blaming others, and say I lack ethics without any pushback.
(2) When I post a sales thread with comparison to another thread, immediately someone who has done the exact same thing retaliates on the offending member's behalf, and accuses me of doing something he has done himself before.
(3) In fact he does even worse by saying his item is better than mine, whereby i just compared my item to another post without making any judgement.
(4) that member is clearly retaliating for me calling out his high pricing of 1599 for a used rz900 without warranty or box - why isn't this referred to? Someone with "disposable income" wouldn't need to run off to the japanese countryside to escape the Singapore cost of living. Why does this member get to do whatever he wants, put people down, post unethical sales posts and get away with it?

Who is the better salesman? the one selling something a used and lower specced receiver (from the generation of Onkyo receivers with high occurrences of faulty HDMI boards) used for several years without box and warranty and or the one selling a new sealed higher specced set with warranty at less than 50% more?

Will leave to mod to decide if appropriate to leave it here.

have a good weekend everyone. 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 30, 2016, 09:43
Back to regular programming :


Those who have installed the new firmware allowing cross mixing in up mixing, any improvements in the sound & immersive experience ?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 30, 2016, 10:09
Back to regular programming :

Those who have installed the new firmware allowing cross mixing in up mixing, any improvements in the sound & immersive experience ?

I will post my initial impressions later in the other thread: http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240870.0 (http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=240870.0)



Update:
My review on the impression is up!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on November 13, 2016, 20:25
Hi,

Plan to move my 5.1 from old house to new house (renovation completing in 2 weeks).

Equipments
1. Denon AVR-X7200WA ( plan to buy)
2. Monitor Audio GX300 for front LR
3. Monitor Audio GXC350 for front center
4. Monitor Audio GX100 for rear LR
5. AG Diva for in-ceilings and surround LR ( plan to buy)

Room acoustic are various GIK panels taken from living room and bedroom of old house. Will be wrapped with new fabric to match the new house deco

This is the layout that I planned after reading from this forums and dolby and avsforum.

All comments and advices welcome.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on November 13, 2016, 20:32
My apologies. Previous links done wrongly.

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/yanguei/Speaker%20Plan_zpsevpj1z61.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/yanguei/Speaker%203D_zpsvkdu4qs2.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/yanguei/Speaker%203D%20Island_zpss0da0mhw.jpg)

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wechnivag on November 16, 2016, 12:19
Wow, sweet space and set up! Subwoofer wise, might require more than one sub to achieve sufficient output as well and even out response due to room modes?
 

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on November 16, 2016, 23:28
Thanks. Any suggestion where to place the 2nd sub?

The contractor is sealing up the false ceiling these few days. I can only setup after I shift in. Hence will not be able to do the crawling method.

Will the SQ drop if the sub cable goes via wall plate like speaker cable?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wechnivag on November 21, 2016, 16:56
Hi, typically it is very difficult to tell which are the optimum position of subwoofers based on floor plans. Looking at the plan, possible candidates for sub locations include front RH, back LH or back RH,  or even near field directly behind sofa- a custom built sub, narrow, tall and slim. Perhaps you want to get your installer to run some acoustic measurement to get a feel of the room modes to assist in planning of subwoofer cable runs?

Running cables in wall should not be an issue, but ground loop hums may be a problem if power for the subs and other equipment in the source is not on the same ground?

Do you have a model of subwoofer in mind? That's a lot of space and volume to fill.

More questions than answers, hope this helps.

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on November 21, 2016, 21:31
thanks for the advice.

I am not so technical guy. Not yet. Intend to read up more after year end trip. For now, I will be using the crawling method with my son as the "measuring device". After all, I watch most of the action movies with him. Will definitely try out the positions u suggested.

Read about near field but unlikely due to WAF.

Running cable into a ceiling is still possible as there is  a few access panels that are meant for changing the air con filter.

I just order follow shipment on the Rythmik E15HP. Audited 4 sub with Peng. I like the sound of E15HP most. I gave away the old sub. So will try with one first. Or should I try 2 immediately?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on November 22, 2016, 08:35
Wow.. nice house.
BTW, are you using the entire space (living+ dining) for your home theatre?
I personally, it will be better you put up divider....

In my house, previously I thought I wanted to use sliding glass door but my ID suggested to use curtain.
that's why I use 100% blackout curtain to divide between my living and dinning room so sound wont travel
anywhere and bounce any directions (more focus for centre and surround).

Perhaps you may want to consider it then.... you can focus on location of MLP follow by speakers+subwoofers
You can use this link as reference
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

 :)

Thanks. Any suggestion where to place the 2nd sub?

The contractor is sealing up the false ceiling these few days. I can only setup after I shift in. Hence will not be able to do the crawling method.

Usually people will put both in front (L-R) or place them diagonally .
It is true crawling method is the best way to find sweet spot but sometimes wife may not like the sweet spot for your subwoofer to place there.
then how?... you need to attend bro Desray's class... He is friendly guy and yet knowledgeable too
 ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on November 22, 2016, 18:36
thanks for the advice.

I am not so technical guy. Not yet. Intend to read up more after year end trip. For now, I will be using the crawling method with my son as the "measuring device". After all, I watch most of the action movies with him. Will definitely try out the positions u suggested.

Read about near field but unlikely due to WAF.

Running cable into a ceiling is still possible as there is  a few access panels that are meant for changing the air con filter.

I just order follow shipment on the Rythmik E15HP. Audited 4 sub with Peng. I like the sound of E15HP most. I gave away the old sub. So will try with one first. Or should I try 2 immediately?

I've quite a similar set up to yours, gx300 and centregxc350 with the Denon.If u go with home theatre, I suggest u get the fv15hp ported sub. Trust me that is very very satisfying. The seal subs can't give u the rumble syokness. The fv15hp is powerful and it gives u enough oomph, and the best part is u don't have to crank up to insane volumes. It is a very good sub for HT. Crawl method not ideal, u may want to try using REW with real time analyser feature. That will tell u a lot about the room modes by looking on the screen to decide where the subs should go. 2 subs is a must it evens out the response for a very smooth tight bass. Try getting 2 similar subs...it will give u a kind of 3D bass effect.... good luck in your set up and enjoy !
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on November 22, 2016, 21:31
hi Whitesox,

I intend to use only the living room area (about 6m x 5m) for HT.

Wife does not allow installation of dividing acoustic curtain :). Cannot push too hard she already agreed for me to install projector and screen. but I have "secretly" plan for a pelmet to be constructed when required during the planning of the aircon ducting and false ceiling. Once she and the kids enjoy the projector, then I can construct the pelmet. heeheee...

thanks for the link

As long as the sub is near the wall, she is ok.

Hi Roniloq

Did listen to ported sub at Peng's shop. the rumble is indeed better than seal. Just that I like the tight sound of the sealed especially on music or a musical movie. Most of the movies I watch with kids are musicals.

will try out REW in Jan. Now rush out to complete the renovation and office work before holiday breaks with kids. In fact, shifting back in this Friday even there is still 2 weeks for the contractor to completion remaining installation and finishing.. haahahaaa...

I will get 2 E15HP then.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on November 23, 2016, 19:01
You may want to make sure that one of the E15HP comes with an XLR connection at the back of the sub. When you r running dual subs, the idea is to smoothen out the response, technically this would mean that both subs apart for the best response. Normally placing diagonally or at + areas. So assuming one sub near the avr in front, and one sub right at the back/beside listening position. For longer runs above 3M, XLR is way better. Hope that helps and good luck with implementation.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 27, 2016, 11:06
I don't know if you made this too, but I did a blast from the past night recently and put "Backdraft" on my Oppo.
Despite being a 90s disc, there was plenty of ambient effects, and with Neural X, the whole sonic landscape was totally enveloping..

The fire went around and above me, then sucked out through the back only to blow up in my face! Dialogue was clear, and there was dripping water, crackling wood and plenty of Foley effects.
Bass was a tad weak but hey it's the 90s right?

Nice effort ... and a demo worthy disc.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on December 27, 2016, 13:46
Over the long weekend, reposition my ceiling speakers from more of a pointing downwards to more of a pointing to MLP. Re-assign to Heights config in AVR & redo calibration, surprisingly sounds slightly more better.
On a side note, 1st time I saw my main LR speakers trim set to -10 & -11 dB.. Usually -6 & -7dB. Did not adjust main speakers position or furniture. Only slighty increase & decrease Audyssey mic by +/- 2 cm then usual only throughout the 8 positions.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: e24djenggos on December 27, 2016, 14:19
Bros, any suggestion for the crossover of atmos in-ceiling speakers. Am using 6" focal 300s.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Pingu on December 27, 2016, 16:12
Does anyone have a contractor for ceiling installation? Any help will be greatly appreciated...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on December 28, 2016, 13:47
Over the long weekend, reposition my ceiling speakers from more of a pointing downwards to more of a pointing to MLP. Re-assign to Heights config in AVR & redo calibration, surprisingly sounds slightly more better.
On a side note, 1st time I saw my main LR speakers trim set to -10 & -11 dB.. Usually -6 & -7dB. Did not adjust main speakers position or furniture. Only slighty increase & decrease Audyssey mic by +/- 2 cm then usual only throughout the 8 positions.

I've compared both, I've just added another 2 channels front height. I find that  pointing downwards from ceiling is more desirable, front height pointing to MLP not as syok ! I had my Atmos ceiling speakers +3db, integrates very well with sub's lfe channel... the impact from overhead sound and the feel of bass sweeping head level is very nice if it blends in well.... as if some object moving above your head, entirely different kind of feeling....

Haiz, will probably gotta re drill ceiling mount, or just leave it as it is for the time being... lotsa work to repositioning....
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on December 28, 2016, 15:06
I see. Mine is swivel bracket adjustable type. My adjustment is not strictly full height or full ceiling; it's a mixture. Now is a 3/4 height & 1/4 aim downwards position.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on December 28, 2016, 18:29
I've compared both, I've just added another 2 channels front height. I find that  pointing downwards from ceiling is more desirable, front height pointing to MLP not as syok ! I had my Atmos ceiling speakers +3db, integrates very well with sub's lfe channel... the impact from overhead sound and the feel of bass sweeping head level is very nice if it blends in well.... as if some object moving above your head, entirely different kind of feeling....

Haiz, will probably gotta re drill ceiling mount, or just leave it as it is for the time being... lotsa work to repositioning....

Try with both ceiling and heights simultaneously. This is similar to the ATMOS speaker arrays used in cinemas. If you wish, you are welcomed to listen for yourself if the extra speakers are worth the effort.

I use this method in my HT and I like this far better than overheads alone.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on December 28, 2016, 18:33
i learn from guru Jag for that 8 speaker layout above your head...
u can visit him or me in pasir ris..
his system n neat layout beats mine wholesale..
i jus have speaker wires hanging everywhere.
hehehehe!!!!
 ;) ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on December 28, 2016, 20:01
Hi jag, yes would love to, have been wanting to check out the mid bass behringer too. I've just added a pair of front heights, MA Apex A10 satellite, very convinced with Atmos. 9.2.4 now with ceiling and front heights combination. But somehow the front height effects not as nice as ceiling overhead effect. I've watched 3 full movies last week after adding the front heights, still not as syok. Maybe I'm missing something. Could it be the front three LCR being over dominant ? I think best I check out at your place, that's the best. Your Atmos set up is TOP notch. But I didn't take note of your front heights back then, was focusing on bass the previous round. Will pm u


Cash, I will check out your place too. Last time round was late at night, wouldn't be nice to demo at that hour. Will definitely visit you soon. It's good to compare, so we know the difference before actually using the hammer drill, I've seen auro set up height channels for surrounds too... too many options
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 28, 2016, 21:32
IMHO
Speaker position is one aspect, but the levels of each channel are also important. It's not really a must to direct the speakers at the MLP, that's a nice bonus if you can, but not every speaker can do it, and the Atmos / DTS-X channels are also meant to be more diffuse.
Remember to take a SPL meter and use an external test disc to check your levels. DO NOT use the internal test tones.

You can pm me if you wish to listen to mine, cheers.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on December 28, 2016, 22:13
hi pete, yes would love to. one by one then i will know what im missing. before i unmount the front heights. I had it at the highest then tilt downwards facing listening position, able to tilt L/R/UP/Down with the brackets provided. Thats where i thought we should place the front height speakers. Did not up the level of the front heights, left it as it is after audy. as sound was coming from front.....
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 01, 2017, 08:35
Jag, thanks for the invite and indeed another "eye opener" atmos session. I have now reconsidered and decided to stick to Front heights & overhead combination. it does give a more immersive surround sound with front heights engaged. increasing the levels of the front heights +3 db gave a more desirable effect. Now im happy with front heights. Thanks a lot Jag for your time. Happy New Year 2017 to you!

One problem is my overheads are directly down firing towards MLP. I tried moving the MLP forward, it sounded a lot nicer around 40-50cm back from MLP. couldnt move the overheads as that is mounted on the false ceiling. PROBLEM. The bass effect gone!! The freq response changed. no matter how i tweaked, still couldnt get to previous level of smoothness. Had to change the MLP back to where it was. But not so desirable atmos feel. Re-tweaked to have the FV15 facing MLP for air effect, that gave an even smoother response +-1 db from 30-100hz. Bass is nicer now. But atmos effect is not as good. If i hadn't experimented with your setup, i wouldn't know what i was missing. I guess i have learnt that we need to compromise. ahh.... too bad it was mounted previously before any experiment..... Next i need to check out Pete's and Cash place to find out more! hehe

To all folks who havent installed atmos overhead, have it at slightly back of the MLP if possible, NOT directly above overheads. Having it slightly at the back of MLP gives a directional but non localized kind of feeling and feels more natural and soundstage is wider and feels more immersive. Follow the dolby recommended layout - https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html

Having it directly above your head just doesnt feel natural and expansion not there.. Too bad mine is mounted and done....
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on January 01, 2017, 09:42
I'm using 7.1.4 ATMOS. My overhead rear was mounted directly over my MLP because of poor advise given by a local HT dealer during an ATMOS demo back in 2015.

As what Ronildoq mentioned, mount the rear overheads about 30-50cm behind the MLP.... NEVER directly over the MLP.

If possible, use heights and overheads at the same time. i.e 8 speakers for heights and top in total. The found field is large, expansive and full. In addition, the synergy between the regular 7 speakers and the atmos speakers has far better cohesion.



Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: luqman123 on January 01, 2017, 10:19
im wondering any bro here use tripolar or bipolar as rear overhead speaker as i am.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wechnivag on January 01, 2017, 10:55
Over the long weekend, reposition my ceiling speakers from more of a pointing downwards to more of a pointing to MLP. Re-assign to Heights config in AVR & redo calibration, surprisingly sounds slightly more better.
On a side note, 1st time I saw my main LR speakers trim set to -10 & -11 dB.. Usually -6 & -7dB. Did not adjust main speakers position or furniture. Only slighty increase & decrease Audyssey mic by +/- 2 cm then usual only throughout the 8 positions.
Wow, main LR trim set to - 10db, must be very efficient speakers 95db /watt?

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on January 01, 2017, 11:16
I'm using 7.1.4 ATMOS. My overhead rear was mounted directly over my MLP because of poor advise given by a local HT dealer during an ATMOS demo back in 2015.

As what Ronildoq mentioned, mount the rear overheads about 30-50cm behind the MLP.... NEVER directly over the MLP.

If possible, use heights and overheads at the same time. i.e 8 speakers for heights and top in total. The found field is large, expansive and full. In addition, the synergy between the regular 7 speakers and the atmos speakers has far better cohesion.

That helicopter and rain with thunder scene is the best for testing Atmos. Now I can finally understand the difference. Still lotsa stuff to learn! But thanks man! Really learnt a lot of superb stuff from u! so so good !
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mutant on January 01, 2017, 15:37
Wow, main LR trim set to - 10db, must be very efficient speakers 95db /watt?

Sent from my X9009 using Tapatalk
Nope. Only  91dB. Usually it auto set around -6/7 dB.
 My rear ceiling speakers about 35 cm behind MLP; better than directly overhead.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stephensim on January 08, 2017, 22:13

hi guys, not sure if this has been shared before... I chanced upon it and downloaded a couple of the Atmos tracks to test them out and they work fine...

http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/ (http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on January 08, 2017, 23:10
hi guys, not sure if this has been shared before... I chanced upon it and downloaded a couple of the Atmos tracks to test them out and they work fine...

http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/ (http://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/)

Yep...its a well-know repository for trailers and stuff.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: e24djenggos on January 09, 2017, 13:43
Thanks Bro Desray,

Much needed.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 15, 2017, 20:16
A nice article that explains Atmos, it's use, installation etc:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dolby-atmos-vs-dolby-atmos#qZFjWEAVuh3VpZ8U.97
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: 2willow on February 20, 2017, 13:40
Hi,

I am running a 5.2.2 with 2 Atmos upfiring modules on top of the front speakers.

My layout is fairly typical in Singapore:
1.  MLP sofa back against the wall,
2.  Fronts are about 4.5m away,
3.  and surrounds 2m left and right of MLP.

Anyone has experience in putting the atmos modules on the surrounds rather than the fronts?  I gathered that 4.5m is a bit too far for upfiring modules (though i am currently using $1 door wedges to prop them), and am guessing that on top of the surrounds would be better.  Any theory on front or rear atmos modules are better, if I can only choose either?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: deadrick on February 20, 2017, 22:55
Hi,

I am running a 5.2.2 with 2 Atmos upfiring modules on top of the front speakers.

My layout is fairly typical in Singapore:
1.  MLP sofa back against the wall,
2.  Fronts are about 4.5m away,
3.  and surrounds 2m left and right of MLP.

Anyone has experience in putting the atmos modules on the surrounds rather than the fronts?  I gathered that 4.5m is a bit too far for upfiring modules (though i am currently using $1 door wedges to prop them), and am guessing that on top of the surrounds would be better.  Any theory on front or rear atmos modules are better, if I can only choose either?

For .2 atmos speaker, its top middle height. dont think it can affect as long as speaker sound comes from top middle.

Im using .2 atmos, i set it to ceiling speaker and rear dolby enabled speakers, cant hear any difference when i play back the same atmos demo. 
Because no sound when set to front dolby enabled speaker. lol.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on February 20, 2017, 23:33
Hi,

I am running a 5.2.2 with 2 Atmos upfiring modules on top of the front speakers.

My layout is fairly typical in Singapore:
1.  MLP sofa back against the wall,
2.  Fronts are about 4.5m away,
3.  and surrounds 2m left and right of MLP.

Anyone has experience in putting the atmos modules on the surrounds rather than the fronts?  I gathered that 4.5m is a bit too far for upfiring modules (though i am currently using $1 door wedges to prop them), and am guessing that on top of the surrounds would be better.  Any theory on front or rear atmos modules are better, if I can only choose either?
it does not means reflective modual hv to be on top of your front spk , to get the correct angle to reflect back from ceiling that will depend very much of the ceiling heigh and the modual surface angel.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: 2willow on February 21, 2017, 09:54
yep, so i think so too.  i read somewhere that the reflective modules should be about 2m from MLP, so i suppose on my surrounds are better than on the fronts. will do some elbow grease and try out both positions.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on February 22, 2017, 19:57
Just my opinion, but if you have a sofa against the rear wall, it's not going to work very well for surround action. YMMV, and others can chip in, but be it straight 5.1 or with Atmos / Ceiling speakers, it's hard to get the same immersive experience.
If you can move your MLP forward enough to get some distance, it will work much better. Also, if the side / rear surrounds are too close to one another, and too close to the MLP you will lost the immersive experience too. Speakers interact with one another, and space is needed. So don't go full hog, just because someone else has. Adapt and adjust to your own needs.


I found this pic on AVS and it's a nice speaker arrangement:


 (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170222/0a016acbdbc2d6994a1e2c1a5c87ddf0.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on February 24, 2017, 04:08
The 2 rear top spk is much further outside the first layer of 7 spk ( not within the cone area ) , technically the top spk hv to within the 2 rear surround , it will sound funny when a object flying thru from the front left to the top front left and pass off to the right but make a turn to the rear right surround spk , so how it should sounded if a jet fly thru from front left to the rear right  ???
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on March 10, 2017, 15:46
I tried the test tone for 9.1.6

The front wide is played back on the front left and right.
The mid and rear height is played back on the rear height.

I am using Denon AVR6300H.

Have anyone else try the 9.1.6 Test Tone?


Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 18, 2017, 16:34
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dolby-atmos-vs-dolby-atmos-page-2#c0EUgMiQlCOVXYAS.97






Conclusion
Quote
So, after all those comparisons, what’s the bottom line? Well, first of all, Dolby’s right: Using four ceiling speakers for the overhead channels makes for an awesome, theater-worthy experience—and that’s with a 5.1-channel system as the starting basis. A system with four Atmos-enabled speakers is still a fantastic alternative. The subtle issues I had with the scope of the soundfield and the slight harshness of certain sounds might well be resolvable with a small amount of acoustic treatment, so you may not be sacrificing much if you can’t use ceiling speakers. Dropping down to two Atmos overhead channels in the front (either ceiling or Atmos-enabled) definitely isn’t as good, but it’s still a dramatic improvement over a non-Atmos system.


To tell you the truth, before I set out to test these configurations, I wasn’t really all that sold on Dolby Atmos for use in home theaters. All of the demonstrations I’d sat through had been at trade shows, such as CES. Under those types of conditions, angels could be singing, and you’d walk away saying, “Meh.” Now that I’ve experienced Atmos in my home, however, I’m hooked. Of course, I want the full configuration of four ceiling speakers, but I’d be happy with any of the other setups as well. Atmos really does add another dimension to the movie experience, and I mean that in more ways than one.


With only a handful of Atmos-encoded Blu-rays available (seriously, I can hold all of their cases in one hand), I can’t say you should drop several thousand dollars and upgrade your system immediately. And the recent emergence of yet another competing object-based surround system, DTS:X, would seem to confuse matters for potential buyers. Fortunately, DTS was clear in its announcement that DTS:X will adapt to any speaker placement configuration, which suggests that DTS:X-encoded content played through an AVR or surround processor that handles both formats should work fine with an Atmos speaker layout. Only time will tell how true that is. But the first AVRs offering Dolby Atmos and DTS:X processing will be available by the time you read this, and it would appear that one well-planned system update may accommodate both.


So, let the games begin, and let the new object-based titles pile up. As more Atmos discs appear, along with more Atmos-enabled speakers and components, you’ll probably decide that it’s “high time” to give your home theater a makeover.




Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/dolby-atmos-vs-dolby-atmos-page-2#X6YYvuwEmPeUuLdy.99
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on April 08, 2017, 14:26
A little reminder on the balance we have to face in our domestic settings.
The best surround effects we can achieve is dependant on the balance between WAF at one end of the spectrum, and the best position / speakers that money can buy.
So once we have decided on what our wallets can afford, followed by what our wives can tolerate, (especially those using living rooms as a HT setup), then we work within those parameters. We will then need to understand that the sound will be compromised, and that we can live with that, and no Audyssey or other auto-eq magic can fix that.
So for example, if a sofa MUST be located dead centre or right against the wall, we need to understand what we can achieve.
Or if the rear surround speaker Must be in the ceiling, then again, the sound will travel from the top to the sides to the fronts in an uneven fashion.

In planning for a new system, either spend money hiring a pro, or save and plan on some elbow grease.
Which means that you need to do the calibration manually, or at least buy an AVR with the latest auto-EQ, eg Denon and Marantz use the latest Audyssey XT32, which isn't found on some of the other brands.

So for a start, understand the ideal speaker positions, and see how your domestic settings allows you to get as close to this as possible. Then see how you can run those cables. If you are doing some major reno, you can cut into the ceiling, or run some trunking, which is cheaper but not as aesthetically pleasing.
Or use the reflective speakers.


Where you site the sub is again a compromise between the best position obtained via the sub crawl and calibration, or the spot your wife dictates.

Once we have understood the paradigm, then we can plan to improve what we can, within the parameters that our wives and renovation allows.


Just posting a summary of some discussions with a few bros that have either posted questions or visited my home.


Finally, in any HT, the centre channel is the most important, and even if you use satellites, if you can get a bigger centre, it will reward your movie experience as much as, if not more than buying the biggest baddest sub in town.




I wish you all the best in your renovations for your new HT setup, cheers.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 08, 2017, 15:01
or at least buy an AVR with the latest auto-EQ, eg Denon and Marantz use the latest Audyssey XT32, which isn't found on some of the other brands.


no need to get only Audessey....
u can get Onkyo Accu EQ
Pioneer MCaac (if i spelt it wrong forgive me ah!)
or Yamaha (dunno what its called for the yammy's)
or any other brand avr with its own calibration tools..
no need to stick to denon n marantz.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on April 08, 2017, 15:14
I changed from Yamaha to Denon and prefer Denon auto-eq. Personal preference I guess.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 08, 2017, 15:27
thats great bro...
all i am trying to get at is, at least 80% of us in this forum,(the silent population of lurkers in this forum included)
jus use the auto calibration settings done by whatever brand n jus leave it as such...
the other 20% will actually get into the nitty gritty things of really understanding n putting it into practice.

personally for me, i jus run my onkyo accu eq first , then i jus do manual db levelling on my sound meter.
super simple...
no need to know what or where this goes or that goes.. no need to worry about house curve or anything of that sort..
no need sound absorbers or whatsoever...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on April 10, 2017, 01:09
jus remember...
i am a straight shooter...
i don't wish to lie, or take sides...
i tell it as it is.
plain n simple english.
cheers!
 ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: deadrick on May 02, 2017, 17:39
anyone listened to ceiling speakers and upfiring speakers and prefer sound from upfiring speakers?

my current 5.1.4 set up is using front atmos upfiring, with rear ceiling mounted speakers. was actually aiming to replace the front atmos upfiring with ceiling mount speakers after i settle my top rear ceiling mount speaker.

top front atmos upfiring is Elac a4,
top rear ceiling is JBL control speakers (my LCR and surround are all JBL studio series, sound quite matching).

andddddd im abit confused now, i actually prefer the upfiring speaker sound, as it sounded very diffused and wide sounding, like sound comes from a bigger patch of area at the ceiling(something like 1m x 1m area). for the top rear speakers mounted at the ceiling, sounded clear, but then easy to localize that specific speakers. 

am i doing anything wrong here?
 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on May 02, 2017, 19:55
My rear surround speakers are also in ceiling speakers. As my kids have grown up now so thinking of using speaker stands for rear surround and use existing in ceiling for Atom. In ceiling speakers sound too diffuse for rear surround in my opinion.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on May 02, 2017, 20:23
anyone listened to ceiling speakers and upfiring speakers and prefer sound from upfiring speakers?

my current 5.1.4 set up is using front atmos upfiring, with rear ceiling mounted speakers. was actually aiming to replace the front atmos upfiring with ceiling mount speakers after i settle my top rear ceiling mount speaker.

top front atmos upfiring is Elac a4,
top rear ceiling is JBL control speakers (my LCR and surround are all JBL studio series, sound quite matching).

andddddd im abit confused now, i actually prefer the upfiring speaker sound, as it sounded very diffused and wide sounding, like sound comes from a bigger patch of area at the ceiling(something like 1m x 1m area). for the top rear speakers mounted at the ceiling, sounded clear, but then easy to localize that specific speakers. 

am i doing anything wrong here?

 

No. What you are experiencing is perfectly normal.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: dbchoong on May 27, 2017, 19:06
Finally fixed up my Atmos setup. 5.2.4 with wall mounted front heights set as as top forward.
Using Pioneer SC-LX58 AVR with Popcorn A500. Calibrated using MCACC and some manual tweaking after that.

Quite satisfied with setup - sound's pretty good. Very immersive sounding.

I don't have a proper listening room - using my home living room. So, lopsided listening positions.
However, still sounds good enough for me. ;D

Speakers:
Floor standing speakers.
Front heights mounted on wall 2m high - set as top forward speakers.
Floor standing surround speakers are ear level.
Surround back is mounted on ceiling facing downwards (not used due to AVR setting).
Top backward speakers mounted high on wall (not ceiling).
2 subs. SVS PC12+ and an old 10" KEF.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/dbchoong/htstuff/2017HT.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on June 09, 2017, 14:39
Finally fixed up my Atmos setup. 5.2.4 with wall mounted front heights set as as top forward.
Using Pioneer SC-LX58 AVR with Popcorn A500. Calibrated using MCACC and some manual tweaking after that.

Quite satisfied with setup - sound's pretty good. Very immersive sounding.

I don't have a proper listening room - using my home living room. So, lopsided listening positions.
However, still sounds good enough for me. ;D

Speakers:
Floor standing speakers.
Front heights mounted on wall 2m high - set as top forward speakers.
Floor standing surround speakers are ear level.
Surround back is mounted on ceiling facing downwards (not used due to AVR setting).
Top backward speakers mounted high on wall (not ceiling).
2 subs. SVS PC12+ and an old 10" KEF.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/dbchoong/htstuff/2017HT.jpg)
Welcome to the club...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: dbchoong on June 09, 2017, 15:40
 ;D Will probably try to move the top speakers to be a bit more like the Dolby recommended positions and firing downwards.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/dbchoong/htstuff/2017HTupd.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on June 09, 2017, 22:02
;D Will probably try to move the top speakers to be a bit more like the Dolby recommended positions and firing downwards.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/dbchoong/htstuff/2017HTupd.jpg)

your top back - confirm will be much more ideal and the sound immersion will be better

your top front - actually, your previous placement at front heights might yield a better sound bro compared to this diagram's. I've tested both and the front heights placement has better immersion and sound stage is wider. And the overheads sounds still comes from ceiling. ;)

I've captured my thoughts and journey here

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=247061.0
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: dbchoong on June 09, 2017, 23:08
your top back - confirm will be much more ideal and the sound immersion will be better

your top front - actually, your previous placement at front heights might yield a better sound bro compared to this diagram's. I've tested both and the front heights placement has better immersion and sound stage is wider. And the overheads sounds still comes from ceiling. ;)

Is your top front angled downwards or facing horizontal? It'll be good if I can leave it where they are now.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 10, 2017, 01:08
Is your top front angled downwards or facing horizontal? It'll be good if I can leave it where they are now.
What are you using for the tops?
Angling them towards you is nice, but it also depends on the type of speakers and their dispersive qualities, as well as their final positions.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on June 10, 2017, 10:04
;D Will probably try to move the top speakers to be a bit more like the Dolby recommended positions and firing downwards.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/dbchoong/htstuff/2017HTupd.jpg)

This top back placement is definitely the way to go. As for the front heights, have it as wide and high(if not ceiling type of speakers) as possible, angling towards MLP. I had the luxury to confirm this with Chris Kyriakakis from audyssey on whether it should angle downwards or horizontally. The difference between having at the mid section vs all the way to the end behind the mains is it gives you a different type of surround feel. Both works and have its merits. As atmos is object based, it can precisely pin point sound to come from a given speaker at its location, the difference lies in the mode in the AVR, using ceiling mode or front height modes. After rounds of comparison, front heights behind the mains gives you that added immersion overall. Given a choice, i would go with Bro Sevenz suggestion on atmos back, PLUS have the front heights as wide and high as possible behind the mains.

There is also talk that 9.1.6 is coming soon as Dolby test tones have been available for sometime. I have quite a similar layout like yours, surrounds, back location, dining table. I would have that additional 2 atmos channels as front top ceiling when it becomes available. So i think that's ok, you can have this option now, and have additional front heights when it is available. After all, the AVR sends object based audio to that specific speaker at its location. This Atmos will bring your entire HT experience to the next level.

Enjoy!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on June 10, 2017, 12:34
Is your top front angled downwards or facing horizontal? It'll be good if I can leave it where they are now.

See the link I just posted in my prev post. It's pointing slightly towards mlp.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: CASH on June 13, 2017, 13:56
see my setup to get a better picture on placement. click on the link.

http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=244333.msg1211341#msg1211341
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 25, 2017, 20:07
Just a point bros:
There are many guides on the placement of speakers on the ceiling, many options for speakers.
Just use them as guides, not hard and fast rules.
Allow some flexibility, since you may shift the position of your speakers or sitting position every now and then.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: debadgedA6 on September 28, 2017, 08:05
I have a 4m ceiling in my viewing room and I have been contemplating lowering the ceiling or constructing a floating ceiling suspended by steel cables. What are the thoughts on this? It's like a sound diffuser hung up in the middle of the room and thus effectively lowering the ceiling height and then I can mount the speakers on that diffuser.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on September 28, 2017, 09:15
I have a 4m ceiling in my viewing room and I have been contemplating lowering the ceiling or constructing a floating ceiling suspended by steel cables. What are the thoughts on this? It's like a sound diffuser hung up in the middle of the room and thus effectively lowering the ceiling height and then I can mount the speakers on that diffuser.

If I were you I will have floating tops which are suspended from ceiling about 1.5m ( within Dolby recommendation ) and leave as it to have more spacious sound. You have a big room why do you want to make it smaller. People like me who live in HDB want to have bigger space to have better sound.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: debadgedA6 on September 28, 2017, 09:16
Yeah. I was thinking of the same floating ceiling. Not sure how to go about designing it and making it look good and functional.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on September 28, 2017, 09:38
Yeah. I was thinking of the same floating ceiling. Not sure how to go about designing it and making it look good and functional.

There are a few people over at AVR forum have done it and show photos. You might visit there to get some more idea.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 28, 2017, 09:43
Dangle on strong slim steel cables, and coil the speaker cable around that?
Or long tubes with the cable inside?

It doesn't matter so much if it sways a bit.. the speaker only handles the higher frequencies IMO.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 15, 2017, 23:13
The Great Wall maybe short on the story and plot, but wow... the Atmos surround is superb.. I take my sonic hat off to the mixer..
Near the finale, there is a scene where the protagonists try to smuggle a beast in the tunnels under the palace, and you can hear the beast scurrying above..
There are also plenty of scenes showing off sound transitions between speakers..

If only they spent a little more paying the script writer.. this could have rivalled LOTR in spectacle and scale. They actually hand carved the palace out of real wood.. amazing detail.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on October 15, 2017, 23:31
ya man, that scene is amazing for ATMOS. +1
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 12, 2017, 16:18
(https://www.movieinsider.com/images/p/600/421837_m1488389100.jpg)

Just finished watching this British action flick and I absolutely love it. The premise is simple...when a black-market arms deal goes outrageously wrong because of some insanely stupid reason (no spoiler). everyone involved have to hang on to their lives...with crate load of arms and some trigger happy madness. I think you get the point. I'm not going into the movie review territory here but what truly impressed me is the aggressive sound mix of all those bullets and ricochets...this is a demo-worthy flick to truly showcase your surround sound and how good DTS Neural:X further enhanced the experience. It will put a smile to your face on how well you home theatre system sound. ;D ;D ;D 

This flick tanked badly in the Box Office but hey this is no Oscar contender, if you just want some really mindless shooting fest, this is the flick for you.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: iMak on November 14, 2017, 16:36
I watched The Hitman's Bodyguard in Atmos, one word, Amazing...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on November 17, 2017, 20:55
Now watching Hans Zimmer Live in Prague tour bluray in Dolby Atmos. Simply amazing...

(http://blu-ray-shop.kiev.ua/image/data/music/zimmer_BLURAY.jpg)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on November 17, 2017, 21:14
Now watching Hans Zimmer Live in Prague tour bluray in Dolby Atmos. Simply amazing...

(http://blu-ray-shop.kiev.ua/image/data/music/zimmer_BLURAY.jpg)

good stuff!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on February 16, 2018, 21:32
Some installation tips:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/installing-wallceiling-speakers-part-1

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/installing-wallceiling-speakers-part-2

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 02, 2018, 17:24
In case anyone needs my setup and design tips:
http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=114164.0 (http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=114164.0)

Plus this is the 'ceiling' speaker thread :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 08, 2018, 19:02
http://www.youtube.com/v/AsrTwq-zvmQ&fs=1
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: reno77 on March 16, 2018, 08:16
The pioneer sp-t22a-lr speakers are going for USD$99 on Amazon.$33 for shipping to SG
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-T22A-LR-Speaker-designed-Andrew/dp/B0148NPHO8
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 24, 2018, 15:39
Bros, has anyone here installed speakers onto a ceiling which is entire board?
Eg like the false ceiling of an attic or something like that?
Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: pcking on June 24, 2018, 17:33
You mean like this ?

(https://s8.postimg.cc/u86lo7wtx/ceiling_atmos.jpg)

Bros, has anyone here installed speakers onto a ceiling which is entire board?
Eg like the false ceiling of an attic or something like that?
Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 24, 2018, 17:36
Nice, I use to install directly onto a concrete ceiling.. no issue with vibrations.. typical false ceilings tend to vibrate a lot..
And now I have a project to consider to install onto a false ceiling where it's the attic, so there's no concrete above it. It's all tiles and such above a wooden frame..
Just considering how different it will be..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 24, 2018, 17:36
Nice, that's an apartment?
I used to install directly onto a concrete ceiling.. no issue with vibrations.. typical false ceilings tend to vibrate a lot..
And now I have a project to consider to install onto a false ceiling where it's the attic, so there's no concrete above it. It's all tiles and such above a wooden frame..
Just considering how different it will be..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: pcking on June 24, 2018, 17:45
If the attic is of a certain distance away from the false ceiling, it should not be an issue as the back waves will be minimum or non existence.
Unlike typical concrete ceiling the distance behind the false ceiling is only about 6-8 inches. So treatment on the ceiling is necessary.
As for strengthening the false ceiling, if you have not done so before the false ceiling is build, you can still install mdf frames or bitumen sheets around the inside of the false ceiling where the speaker mounting holes are.

For the best results, choose ceiling speakers which comes with their own back box enclosures so that the SQ is not affected.

Yes, the photo is my own place with ceiling height of 2.9m 

Nice, I use to install directly onto a concrete ceiling.. no issue with vibrations.. typical false ceilings tend to vibrate a lot..
And now I have a project to consider to install onto a false ceiling where it's the attic, so there's no concrete above it. It's all tiles and such above a wooden frame..
Just considering how different it will be..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 24, 2018, 18:28
Thanks bro, it will be a new project from scratch.. 3m ceiling..
I will likely mount the speakers onto the false ceiling and run cables above it.. AG A'Divas.. I may revise my current setup, add more Auro speakers and wides since I have the option with my current AV amp.
I have some time... will ask you for more info and help later on, cheers :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 04, 2018, 17:06

Q I want to install a Dolby Atmos 5.1.2 speaker configuration using ceiling speakers for both overhead height effects and the left/right surrounds. How would you recommend I go about positioning the speakers? —Tuck Seng

A Dolby’s installation guidelines specify the use of ceiling speakers to convey the overhead height effects in Atmos soundtracks. For a 5.1.2 speaker setup, you would install a pair of ceiling speakers slightly in front of the main viewing position as shown in the above illustration.

While you could get away with using ceiling speakers for the surrounds in an Atmos setup, Dolby doesn’t recommend it. The company’s installation guidelines instead suggest that surround speakers should be installed in pairs at the same height level as the main left/right speakers at the front of the room. Why? Clear separation between the sound coming from the overhead height-plane and the listener-level speakers is required to get best performance from Atmos. With both speaker types bunched together on the ceiling, the system’s ability to clearly convey height effects in Atmos soundtracks will be reduced.


Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/can-i-use-ceiling-speakers-surrounds-atmos-setup#M5ZQcpf6CuIqqqco.99
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 14, 2018, 18:51
Finally installed 2 front height speakers, quite impressed with DTS Neural X. Wonder if I should turn up 2-3db more?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on July 14, 2018, 20:43
Finally installed 2 front height speakers, quite impressed with DTS Neural X. Wonder if I should turn up 2-3db more?

No harm to try... dont like.. can adjust back.
I increased 3db for all my ceiling channels.
 :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 14, 2018, 20:48
Finally installed 2 front height speakers, quite impressed with DTS Neural X. Wonder if I should turn up 2-3db more?
You should experiment and find that sweet spot yourself: between too much and too little.. Neural X cooks it a bit hotter than Atmos and DSU.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 14, 2018, 23:26
Yes will redo the calibration but just realized the right front height has no sound now so suspect a loose connection. Need to remove the in wall speaker and check tomorrow. Agreed that neural x cooks a bit hotter but love it.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: SiaOLiaO on July 15, 2018, 01:25
Hi all, does anyone who has installed ceiling speakers know if we need additional  suppprt to mount an 8” ceiling speaker on false ceilings?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: pcking on July 15, 2018, 09:47
In general, most false ceiling should be thick enough to hold the weight of the ceiling speakers.

However, if you want to make sure there will be no or minimum vibrations when you play loud, some additional bracings are recommended and also you may want to consider putting some acoustic foams on the back concrete ceiling to absorb the back waves.

Is your false ceiling existing or going to build ?
What’s the make and model of the ceiling speakers you are going to install ?

Hi all, does anyone who has installed ceiling speakers know if we need additional  suppprt to mount an 8” ceiling speaker on false ceilings?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 17, 2018, 22:34
Reset the AVR and speaker is working. Did another calibration and calibration tone for the right height speaker doesn’t sound right (doesn’t sound like the rest of the speaker)

Crossover from Audyssey for front height speskers is 150hz so left it as it is. Turn up 2db for front height speskers for better immersion. Any kind soul knows why the calibration tone for right height spesker sounds a off?

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on July 18, 2018, 06:38
Reset the AVR and speaker is working. Did another calibration and calibration tone for the right height speaker doesn’t sound right (doesn’t sound like the rest of the speaker)

Crossover from Audyssey for front height speskers is 150hz so left it as it is. Turn up 2db for front height speskers for better immersion. Any kind soul knows why the calibration tone for right height spesker sounds a off?



You have to be more specific with the right height speakers doesn't sound right. For instance, check the speaker level results for the right height as compared the left one. Is there a big difference? If you are talking about difference in the "ping" tone during calibration for just the right height speakers, then you need to ask yourself whether is there any difference in terms of the distance between the right and the left from your listening position. Is it an asymmetrical room layout where one of the speakers (in this case either your right height speakers) being partially blocked by some corners, fixtures etc...Sometimes the "uneven" pinging sound emitted during the calibration for one of the speakers is fine due to noisy environment as such the calibration mic did not pick up the "ping" tone emitted from the right height speakers. If the first position "ping" sound is much louder than the rest of the speakers, it will carry over to subsequent positions and that is normal. The important thing is to check the final speaker level results are even.

So my question to you is....which is which?
 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 18, 2018, 06:45
Thanks Desray. The ping noise sounded distorted. There isn’t any blockage in front of the speaker. Distance and sound level between 2 front height speakers is quite similar. Lastly my room is not asymmetrical.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 18, 2018, 07:08
You may wish to inspect your speaker to see if there is any damage. Play some music or radio through it and see if there’s any distortion.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 18, 2018, 07:53
Did play music with multichannel stereo and everything is ok. I will observe further.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 09:51
Hi Brothers in this forum.
Need some advice from you guys.
I am at the moment looking for in-ceiling speakers for 7.1.4 Atmos, and have short listed those below that will cost me between S$300 to S$450 a pair:
- RSL C34E (Cost S$450 include shipment and tax)
https://rslspeakers.com/products/c34e-edgeless-in-ceiling-speaker/
Frequency response 60Hz to 20kHz, two 41/2 inch woofer)
- Polk RC80i (approx S$350 per pair)
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-ymRRu8Cut3b/p_107RC80I/Polk-Audio-RC80i.html
Frequency response 50Hz to 20kHz, 8 inch woofer)
- Earthquake R800 (S$350 per pair - alpha Audio)
https://www.spacehifi.com.au/audio/speakers/in-ceiling-speakers/earthquake-sound-r800-8-inch-reference-in-ceiling-speakers
Frequency response 45Hz to 20kHz, 8 inch woofer)
- Wharfedale DC8 (approx S$350 per pair)
https://avrevolution.com.au/dc-8.html
Frequency response 45Hz to 20kHz, 8 inch woofer)

This AVS forum seemed to prefer RSL C34E to Polk R80i :https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1649609-best-ceiling-speakers-atmos-60.html
There are lack of review on the Earthquake and Wharfedale.  Heard the Earthquake at Alpha Audio.  Heard Klipsh 5650 (61/2 inch) which sound good but higher price for reference only.
I have considered cut out size (RSL cutout is largest at 10 1/8 inch) and depth for my ceiling - two front top speaker need to be mounted on slightly over 5 inch depth of false ceiling.  This is to be installed in my Living Room 6m(L) x 4m(W) X 3.1m(H).  I am not worry about matching timbre for Atmos speaker.
Someone mentioned in the same AVS forum link above that although normally crossover frequency is set at about 80Hz to 100Hz, it is good to have in ceiling speaker that that has low frequency response below 70Hz, but the forumer pointed out that most speakers although rated below 70Hz are never accurate and lightly to be higher.  What do you brother think about this - that a fuller range speaker for Atmos will be better.  I am prepare to spend up to S$500 per pair if any are better for Atmos than the above and locally available.
I would appreciate it if any of you who have tried the speakers above can share your experience.  Thanks.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 18, 2018, 10:06
IMO, you don't need a 'full range' speaker for Atmos duties.
(I don't have shares or financial interest in Anthony Gallo)

But a small speaker like the AG A'Diva will do fine. Less stress on a false ceiling too. Imagine the stress on your false ceiling from a 8" cone pounding away daily? Will your ceiling take it?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 10:32
Thanks Pete for coming in.
Did not consider the pounding effect.  Presently I have two JBL in-ceiling speakers for rear top atmos for more than a year, but cannot remember whether this is 6.5 inch or 8 inch.  Seem my ceiling (about 10 inch depth) able to coup with it except that I think it was not placed very well.  Will go back and check.  I used Elac for front reflection at the moment.  The ceiling in front of MLP is only slightly more than 5 inch deep.
As my place is now under renovation, and good time to try something else, I thought I just go for four in ceiling speakers for aesthetic purpose.
I will consider the AG Micro, which although surface mount probably give me more flexibility in placement, considering the limitation posted by my approx. 5 inch ceiling depth only.  BTW, what is the difference between the AG Micro and the AG Micro SE?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 18, 2018, 11:35
Bro,
You may want to consult Peng aka econav for more info, he sells them and can give you the lowdown.
All the best, cheers.
Plus these websites:
https://galloacoustics.com/nucleus-micro-se/ (https://galloacoustics.com/nucleus-micro-se/)

https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=anthony+gallo+micro+vs+micro+se&oq=anthony+gallo+se+v&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.6959j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 (https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=anthony+gallo+micro+vs+micro+se&oq=anthony+gallo+se+v&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.6959j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 12:03
Thanks Pete.  Will check on the surface mount before pulling the trigger on an 8 inch in ceiling speaker.  Meanwhile any comment from other who knows about those in-ceiling speakers are welcome.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 18, 2018, 12:41
I am using the Def Tech UIW series (in ceiling) and the tweeter cannot be adjusted so the sound is quite dispersed which I feel it is good for ambience sound like Atmos.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: pcking on July 18, 2018, 12:44
I’m using 6 pcs of the RSL C34E. So far so good. For the price, they are really VFM.
Before installation of the false ceiling, I bought and pasted some acoutic foams on the real ceiling area just behind where the in ceiling speakers are, to absorb the back waves.

In my previous place, I was using the Deftech UIW 8”.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ralfale on July 18, 2018, 12:46
Apart from the listed usual suspect like RSL popular in avsforum, you can also consider speakercraft offerings.

Locally I will throw in RBH vm815 for atmos consideration. You can demo at sound decision. I find it pretty decent. Price is about 400 per piece. Cheaper if you go for 6" version
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ralfale on July 18, 2018, 12:53
What do you guys think of adjustable tweeter angle? Is that critical consideration for atmos use?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 18, 2018, 13:08
What do you guys think of adjustable tweeter angle? Is that critical consideration for atmos use?
I like the option of being able to tweak my speakers' angles... YMMV..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 13:58
I’m using 6 pcs of the RSL C34E. So far so good. For the price, they are really VFM.
Before installation of the false ceiling, I bought and pasted some acoutic foams on the real ceiling area just behind where the in ceiling speakers are, to absorb the back waves.

Good to know that you are using the RSL C34E successfully.  For my slightly more than 5" front ceiling, if I put in acoustic foam, the 4 1/4"  depth speaker will practically be pressing against the foam onto the concrete ceiling.  Not sure whether that is good for my case.  Also not so easy for me to install the foam on my existing ceiling.  If backwave is a problem, looks like I have to look seriously on surface mount speaker.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: pcking on July 18, 2018, 14:12
Back wave definitely plays a part in the final SQ.

I learned that in my previous old setup with the Deftech UIW.
With the foams behind vs without makes a great difference.

The foam can be touching the speaker driver caskets but it should not touch the back of the speaker cones. Else it will be restricting the movement of the cones.

Are you sure your false ceiling is so shallow ?
I had the impression that 6 inches is like the default depth.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on July 18, 2018, 14:22
If you really want to go into it, the amount of space around the ceiling speaker makes a big difference..
I was at the Dynaudio factory and they make ceiling speakers too, and with movable tweeters. You can google for them..
The type of ceiling, the mount, the space and the amount of acoustic treatment around it all matter..

I would get a pro if you are re-doing your place..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 15:26
If you really want to go into it, the amount of space around the ceiling speaker makes a big difference..
......
The type of ceiling, the mount, the space and the amount of acoustic treatment around it all matter..

No intention to redo my false ceiling as it is my living room and not a dedicated HT room.  Just to clarify whether your advice above is more for in-ceiling speakers.  Will such consideration be as challenging for surface mount speaker like AG Diva?  Is there a place I can read up more about consideration to make for surface mount speaker?  I like the fact that the AG Diva is less than a kilo in weight.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 15:31
I suppose I should ask Econav ...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ralfale on July 18, 2018, 15:47
Nowadays with led, 4" ceiling depth is possible. Hence shallower depth in ceiling speakers are more ideal for SG homes.

Pcking bro, I'm very keen in RSL too. How do you rate them apart from vfm? In terms of sound clarity or dispersion ?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on July 18, 2018, 16:17
I like the option of being able to tweak my speakers' angles... YMMV..

Pointing the tweeters towards the MLP will make the sound more directional and distinctive if I am not wrong. I prefer the tweeters pointing to the MLP too, just that I started my first HT journey 10 years ago with limited knowledge and also due to WAF thus all the in-wall / in-ceiling speakers. I will go for standing speakers if I can have a dedicated HT room so I can constantly tweak the speakers layout till I get the optimal experience. The new Def Tech in-wall/in-ceiling speakers come with adjustable tweeters and very thin, almost invisible frame.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on July 18, 2018, 17:17
Nowadays with led, 4" ceiling depth is possible. Hence shallower depth in ceiling speakers are more ideal for SG homes.

Pcking bro, I'm very keen in RSL too. How do you rate them apart from vfm? In terms of sound clarity or dispersion ?

Bro Ralfale, you may be able to get  what you want to know from this AVS forum comments on RSL C34E:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1649609-best-ceiling-speakers-atmos-59.html
It has two 4 1/2 inch in it.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: pcking on July 19, 2018, 12:09
I can only compare what I have used before and say that the RSL in ceiling sound better than the Deftech UIW.

Do note that the RSL is not really having an adjustable tweeter. It’s actually a directional speaker. Meaning the 4” Midrange woofers and tweeters will be pointing to the same direction to where you position the speakers.

You will not need the Atmos speakers to go very low. However, I would prefer to have speakers that is able to handle to at least lower than 80Hz which is my desired cut off freq.

In this aspect, the RSL performs very well. And the parts used for its crossovers are definitely of a better quality than other competitors of higher price range.

Nowadays with led, 4" ceiling depth is possible. Hence shallower depth in ceiling speakers are more ideal for SG homes.

Pcking bro, I'm very keen in RSL too. How do you rate them apart from vfm? In terms of sound clarity or dispersion ?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mikeang88 on September 05, 2018, 11:42
Hi, just a quick question on the atmos in ceiling speaker. I have currently a set of in ceiling speakers that are directly over my head which I had previously used as rear surround. Do you think it will suffice enough as an atmos overhead? I can't do reflection nor add more in ceiling speakers.

Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 05, 2018, 14:03
Hi, just a quick question on the atmos in ceiling speaker. I have currently a set of in ceiling speakers that are directly over my head which I had previously used as rear surround. Do you think it will suffice enough as an atmos overhead? I can't do reflection nor add more in ceiling speakers.

Thanks
Depends on 2 things... The dimension of your room and whether or not u want more seamless sound stage above you. If room or space is already very small then current setup for atmos effects is fine. If not, you are always encourage to go for 2 pairs. For front and rear hemispheric effects. Key is to create 3D audio bubble above and around you.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: mikeang88 on October 06, 2018, 10:26
Update : I installed the Pioneer atmos addon speakers for the front height.

It works .. can hear from the top.... despite having the ceiling L box and the ceiling fan switched on..

The only thing is the tonal differences between the pioneer versus my Deftech speakers.. Looks like got no choice but to do the speaker audseyy recalibration again which I truly dread.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on October 06, 2018, 10:32
Update : I installed the Pioneer atmos addon speakers for the front height.

It works .. can hear from the top.... despite having the ceiling L box and the ceiling fan switched on..

The only thing is the tonal differences between the pioneer versus my Deftech speakers.. Looks like got no choice but to do the speaker audseyy recalibration again which I truly dread.

Yes, I'm afraid you will have to re-do the Audyssey calibration again. As for tonality difference in the different brand of speakers, it is harder to comment on. But then again, there is only so many manufacturers doing reflection types of speakers. So not much choice.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 06, 2018, 10:38
Update : I installed the Pioneer atmos addon speakers for the front height.

It works .. can hear from the top.... despite having the ceiling L box and the ceiling fan switched on..

The only thing is the tonal differences between the pioneer versus my Deftech speakers.. Looks like got no choice but to do the speaker audseyy recalibration again which I truly dread.
You definitely need to lah..
Have a cup of kopi, do your ironing in another room, come out every min or so to change the mike position. Before you know it, it's done. Takes under 15 min..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 29, 2018, 22:10
Just wondering:
According to Atmos and Dolby, the angle for the top front and rear speakers can be mounted from 30-55 degrees from the sitting position.
That means that in a smaller room, these speakers might even be mounted on the front and rear wall?


Is anyone using this arrangement to avoid drilling into the ceiling?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ralfale on October 29, 2018, 23:06
I think this works if the area is small. Front to back quite narrow. End of day, I think the idea is simply to cover the TOP gap in sound field.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on October 30, 2018, 04:57
Given that most current HDB rooms measure less than 4 by 4 meters, assuming one sits somewhere behind the exact middle, trigonometry calculations indicate that if one mounts them at the front on the top of wall and similarly on the top of the rear wall, it will fall into the recommended angles.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf (https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf)

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html (https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/7-1-4-setups.html)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: lampsy86 on December 08, 2018, 11:15
Good to know that you are using the RSL C34E successfully.  For my slightly more than 5" front ceiling, if I put in acoustic foam, the 4 1/4"  depth speaker will practically be pressing against the foam onto the concrete ceiling.  Not sure whether that is good for my case.  Also not so easy for me to install the foam on my existing ceiling.  If backwave is a problem, looks like I have to look seriously on surface mount speaker.
Sorry for reviving an old post....

But I think people should really give the SVS prime elevation speakers a go for Atmos duties.

I think these are the best options for those who can't put a speaker in their ceiling. Heard it at a friend's place in NY when I went there ! Brilliant !

Great option for apartment dwellers & living room HT setups with limited ceiling space !

They are so flexible in terms of how you mount them, on wall as height speaker configuration above LCR & Surround speakers, or you can even install them on the ceiling in the in-ceiling atmos position (TR, TL etc) ! Comes with mounting bracket kit !



Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 27, 2018, 23:43
Is anyone using a different angle from the ascribed 30 degrees from the vertical line?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on December 28, 2018, 06:11
Sorry for reviving an old post....

But I think people should really give the SVS prime elevation speakers a go for Atmos duties.

I think these are the best options for those who can't put a speaker in their ceiling. Heard it at a friend's place in NY when I went there ! Brilliant !

Great option for apartment dwellers & living room HT setups with limited ceiling space !

They are so flexible in terms of how you mount them, on wall as height speaker configuration above LCR & Surround speakers, or you can even install them on the ceiling in the in-ceiling atmos position (TR, TL etc) ! Comes with mounting bracket kit !

Yes, the elevation speakers which can double up as surround speakers as well does provide a convincing height effects as well. But have to make sure that the speakers are not placed too far away from the MLP. The distance apart should follow the Mains as closely as possible and not put at either end of the corner of the room. How’s your placement like? Maybe can share with members here?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on December 28, 2018, 21:38
(https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2501386&d=1545939331)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: lampsy86 on December 29, 2018, 02:25
Yes, the elevation speakers which can double up as surround speakers as well does provide a convincing height effects as well. But have to make sure that the speakers are not placed too far away from the MLP. The distance apart should follow the Mains as closely as possible and not put at either end of the corner of the room. How’s your placement like? Maybe can share with members here?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm planning my new place Reno right now. Planning to add 6 height speakers. 2 front heights, 2 in ceiling top middle speakers & 2 rear heights.

For front heights, gonna mount it above FL & FR just below the ceiling. Top middle will be above MLP (just slightly in-front of MLP), rear heights is where I'm confused, I want to cover Atmos & auro-3d as well. Rear height speaker placement is a headache, I need to find a compromise position that is as good as it gets for covering both Atmos & auro-3d rear heights placement with single set rear height speakers .

Best possible solution would be to have two different sets of rear height speakers & switch between them, but that would mean more speakers, but not keen on more speakers, if I'm going to add more speakers I'd rather add front wide channels :)

Auro 3D discs & content is limited, but I find their upmixer to be the best !

And there is also a problem of channel processing limitation, I'm planning to get the marantz AV8805, 13 channel processing, unless I go for storm audio's 16 channel processor [no can do ! :( ]

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Norman_Chan on January 05, 2019, 23:59
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07B48FJFH/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07B4P9TYJ/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Any comments on this two brand of atmos speakers?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on January 06, 2019, 08:37
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07B48FJFH/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07B4P9TYJ/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

Any comments on this two brand of atmos speakers?
Based on initial reviews seems good for the Sony AE speakers. Anyway hard to tell as Sony just introduced these in the market recently. Not many reviews yet.

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Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Norman_Chan on January 08, 2019, 10:49
For atmos connection the setting is 5.1.2 , since the atmos speakers will be connected to the "Height speaker" terminal , than if want to connect 7.1 for DTS-X, how to do it since no more speaker terminal to connect?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 20, 2019, 20:55
Thanks bro English for highlighting this.
This came at a timely phase when I'm doing some work myself:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf

The equidistant part is something nice to have. Not too many can do so.
But the base level height of 1.2m helps - it can be lower for Asians, and I'm struggling to make the angles (azimuth) for the Top Fronts and Top Rears due to the small size of my listening room.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 20, 2019, 20:57
If the attic is of a certain distance away from the false ceiling, it should not be an issue as the back waves will be minimum or non existence.
Unlike typical concrete ceiling the distance behind the false ceiling is only about 6-8 inches. So treatment on the ceiling is necessary.
As for strengthening the false ceiling, if you have not done so before the false ceiling is build, you can still install mdf frames or bitumen sheets around the inside of the false ceiling where the speaker mounting holes are.

For the best results, choose ceiling speakers which comes with their own back box enclosures so that the SQ is not affected.

Yes, the photo is my own place with ceiling height of 2.9m 

Thanks for the tips. My ceiling speakers will be the AG A'Divas, which are globes hanging out of the ceiling. But I did take the opportunity to use wooden beams instead of aluminium for the ceiling boards. Tons of rockwool too.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kenshin07 on January 24, 2019, 10:46
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTmy3t8m/20190124-102401.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKqFPwpV)


Just finished with my renovation and setting up my Atmos setup. Setup is 7.2.6 in part of living hall. Size about 3.4m x 2.95m.

The setup is pretty much a nearfield listening due to small area. Just finished audysee run but not went into much tweaking yet. Just watch a few old demo clips the sound is pretty much immersive. So far quite satisfy for now.

All atmos speakers are anthony gallo adiva SE

(https://i.postimg.cc/4xJt2Cd3/20190128-113740.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Picture of my current atmos setup.
After a week of running in the cables and some tweaking, yesterday evening settle down to listen to some dolby atmos clips. I am pretty much impress with the small AG adiva SE speakers. During the initially planning stage I was worry that 6 atmos spks was too much for such a small living hall. In the end turn out to be just nice. So I think for such small listening area to have 6 atmos speakers it is doable if you know how to control them and placement is important too.

Some may wonder why AG diva SE speakers over others.
First thing first, my listening area is very small so using AG speakers yield better results and I prefer a more direct atmospheric sounding. The AG bracket is quite flexible in a way that it can be tilted towards the MLP position.
If your listening area, is big then diffuse sound speaker may yield a better result. Of course you must the the diffuse effect.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 24, 2019, 17:34
Nice 👍
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on January 24, 2019, 20:45
Congrats bro Kenshin! Will pay you a visit one of these days if you don't mind.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kenshin07 on January 24, 2019, 22:29
Congrats bro Kenshin! Will pay you a visit one of these days if you don't mind.


Sure once my system settle down will inform.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kenshin07 on January 30, 2019, 10:21
Posted a picture of actual atmos speakers layout.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: econav on January 30, 2019, 15:20
Posted a picture of actual atmos speakers layout.
have to re-tightening the Gallo , that day I don't have the tools after moving the direction pointing .
How is your playing with multiple setting on DDRC24 ?

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kenshin07 on January 30, 2019, 20:54
have to re-tightening the Gallo , that day I don't have the tools after moving the direction pointing .
How is your playing with multiple setting on DDRC24 ?



Since that day after the ddrc24 setup the bass become cleaner which make the surround and atmos effect sound better. Till now have not mess with the ddrc24, cant wait to watch all movies i bought during the last 6 months.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on January 30, 2019, 22:31
Any difference in mounting the baseplate along the length of the room or the width ?
Thanks
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: kenshin07 on January 31, 2019, 08:36
No, just simple screws will be fine
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on January 31, 2019, 22:03
i learn from guru Jag for that 8 speaker layout above your head...
u can visit him or me in pasir ris..
his system n neat layout beats mine wholesale..
i jus have speaker wires hanging everywhere.
hehehehe!!!!
 ;) ;D

Here another person after bro Cash who kena poisoned after visiting bro Jag 4 months ago.
I have installed additional front height spk, hooked it up (parallel) to the front ceiling.

"... So now every time if it is raining, I can hear water not only coming down from above me but the whole soccer field is also rain..."

Special thanks to brother Jag.
He makes my HT experience more exciting.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/o581/A-hok/0/badbe203-019a-4480-8efa-2576f5910d0f-original.jpg?width=1220&height=380&fit=bounds)
(rear)                         ---->                                     (MLP)                                         ------>                                                           (front)

Layout: 7.2.6 (cables all concealed)... coming up soon for 7.3.6
Active: 7.2.4.2
Speaker: B&W M1, silver

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Jag on January 31, 2019, 23:37
My poison very infectious. Listen to it and might get hooked bad.

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on February 01, 2019, 07:04
Here another person after bro Cash who kena poisoned after visiting bro Jag 4 months ago.
I have installed additional front height spk, hooked it up (parallel) to the front ceiling.

"... So now every time if it is raining, I can hear water not only coming down from above me but the whole soccer field is also rain..."

Special thanks to brother Jag.
He makes my HT experience more exciting.

(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/o581/A-hok/0/badbe203-019a-4480-8efa-2576f5910d0f-original.jpg?width=1220&height=380&fit=bounds)
(rear)                         ---->                                     (MLP)                                         ------>                                                           (front)

Layout: 7.2.6 (cables all concealed)... coming up soon for 7.3.6
Active: 7.2.4.2
Speaker: B&W M1, silver

 ;D ;D ;D

Nicely done. Very clean.

Congrats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 03, 2019, 14:10
hello to all Gurus.
I am planning the layout for my new home and the HT configuration and placements. Ideally, I wish to have 5.1.4 setup. it is a small room though. Ceiling height would be 2.6m. I will be boxing up the sides for lighting fixtures, which will take up about 20 cm of the floor to ceiling height.
the storage behind the sofa is to give some separation between the sofa and the back wall.
planning to get a 65" - 75" TV, but based on the viewing distance, I think 65"-70" will more than suffice.
The green boxes depict the bed level speakers, which I am inclining towards the Dali Oberons 5 (or 7) for LF & RF. Center with be the Oberon Vokal. Surrounds will either be the Oberons 1 on the storage shelf itself, (which will be about 1.1m height), or the Oberons On Walls (more inclined to go with these), or the in-wall speakers that i read about. RSL has those for quite affordable prices.. Sub will either be from Dali or SVS SB-2000. I could either go for the Dali Phantom e50s for the ceilings or the RSL so raved about in the forums. If going for elevation speakers likelihood will be the SVS Prime elevations. Another range of speakers I am keen on (more affordable than the Dalis), are the Paradigm Monitor SE range, which currently is not being carried by my local distributor and need to be indented, so I have yet to be able to audition them.

I have a few questions that need advise:
1) Do I have enough space for a 5.1.4 setup?
2) if so, should I go for 4 in-ceilings or 4x elevation speakers front and back, or any other recommendations?
3) are my surrounds too near the seated MLP?
4) will the Oberon 5 or 7 be more suited for my room size?
5) will it be too ambitious to wanna try a 7.1.4?

I have come up with 2 different layouts, one involves shifting a wall to gain about 40 cm for the living room area. its gonna costs 2.2k, dunno if its worth it.

which do you guys think will be better?

much appreciated any advise forthcoming.

Layout 1
(https://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/107D63F2-F65D-4F34-B34B-D621B09DAA80.png)

Layout 2
(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/A4C9B0F5-D382-4B4A-A2AA-E46CBDC590AA.png)

Layout 3 (wall shifted)
(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/D050F991-39DD-4309-AC01-E63E4649FB59.png)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on March 03, 2019, 19:39
I would move the sofa away from the wall as far away as possible so i prefer layout 3. Also the viewing distance will be nearer so 65” TV is just nice. My living room size is similar to yours so I go for height speakers 5.2.2 instead of ceiling. In my opinion, rather go for dual subs then 7.1.4 configuration.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 03, 2019, 23:04
I would move the sofa away from the wall as far away as possible so i prefer layout 3. Also the viewing distance will be nearer so 65” TV is just nice. My living room size is similar to yours so I go for height speakers 5.2.2 instead of ceiling. In my opinion, rather go for dual subs then 7.1.4 configuration.

Thanks for the input. layout 3 requires me to spend more than $2k just to shift the wall to gain 40cm. if I'm only going for 5.1.2, doesn't seem worth the whole trouble and costs. if I'm going for layout 3 I would try to go for 5.1.4 as much as I can. 2 subs a little hard as its so space constrained.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on March 03, 2019, 23:37

hello to all Gurus.
..
I have a few questions that need advise:
1) Do I have enough space for a 5.1.4 setup?
2) if so, should I go for 4 in-ceilings or 4x elevation speakers front and back, or any other recommendations?
3) are my surrounds too near the seated MLP?
4) will the Oberon 5 or 7 be more suited for my room size?
5) will it be too ambitious to wanna try a 7.1.4?

...

I'm not a guru but it's seem that all the gurus here busy with their lives, so I'm going to be cscbb ;D

1. Yes provided fronts are bookshelf and .4 are tops.
2. See 1.
3. Yes
4. See 1
5. Yes


But if you decided to go for Bose or tiny speakers, 9.1.6 also possible.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: LTTan on March 04, 2019, 10:59
hello to all Gurus.
I am planning the layout for my new home and the HT configuration and placements. Ideally, I wish to have 5.1.4 setup. it is a small room though. Ceiling height would be 2.6m. I will be boxing up the sides for lighting fixtures, which will take up about 20 cm of the floor to ceiling height.
the storage behind the sofa is to give some separation between the sofa and the back wall.
planning to get a 65" - 75" TV, but based on the viewing distance, I think 65"-70" will more than suffice.
The green boxes depict the bed level speakers, which I am inclining towards the Dali Oberons 5 (or 7) for LF & RF. Center with be the Oberon Vokal. Surrounds will either be the Oberons 1 on the storage shelf itself, (which will be about 1.1m height), or the Oberons On Walls (more inclined to go with these), or the in-wall speakers that i read about. RSL has those for quite affordable prices.. Sub will either be from Dali or SVS SB-2000. I could either go for the Dali Phantom e50s for the ceilings or the RSL so raved about in the forums. If going for elevation speakers likelihood will be the SVS Prime elevations. Another range of speakers I am keen on (more affordable than the Dalis), are the Paradigm Monitor SE range, which currently is not being carried by my local distributor and need to be indented, so I have yet to be able to audition them.

I have a few questions that need advise:
1) Do I have enough space for a 5.1.4 setup?
2) if so, should I go for 4 in-ceilings or 4x elevation speakers front and back, or any other recommendations?
3) are my surrounds too near the seated MLP?
4) will the Oberon 5 or 7 be more suited for my room size?
5) will it be too ambitious to wanna try a 7.1.4?

I have come up with 2 different layouts, one involves shifting a wall to gain about 40 cm for the living room area. its gonna costs 2.2k, dunno if its worth it.

which do you guys think will be better?

much appreciated any advise forthcoming.

Layout 2
(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/A4C9B0F5-D382-4B4A-A2AA-E46CBDC590AA.png)

I will try layout 2. Sub nearer to MLP. Hopefully can get the impact. Can consider drop by Adelphi Tat Chuan Acoustic to test the Klipsch setup. The sub is just beside the MLP. Was quite impressed by the performance based on the single sub setup.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on March 04, 2019, 12:59
I agreed with BadEnglish, your living is not huge so there is no need for more speakers set up like 7.1.4. For me, even a 5.1.2 is sufficient. Your ceiling height is also not high. Take note that what you hear in the showroom will unlikely be the same when you set up at home.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 07, 2019, 17:59
hi guys thanks for the feedback so far.

I've done some further drawings and layout 1 is based on original living room dimensions and layout 2 based on hacking and shifting the tv wall 40cm farther back.

which one do you guys think work better?

I think looking at it, I should be sticking with 5.1.2........

(https://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/Screenshot%202019-03-07%20at%205.42.36%20PM.png)

(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/Screenshot%202019-03-07%20at%205.42.45%20PM.png)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on March 07, 2019, 20:29
I prefer layout 2 and move the ceiling speakers to align with the MLP.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on March 07, 2019, 20:59
Layout 1 but
Top Center and front height
5 floor

5.x.4
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on March 07, 2019, 21:15
Looking at your family moving direction...

I opt for layout 3 - wall shifted
(you can spend a little more but you will be happy for a long period. Will your wife have a long face ? coz your master bed room become smaller.

1. You need to consult her first... for smaller wardrobe for her clothes, bags, and shoes  :'(
2. I don't like your subw position there.... SPL will be 'leak' (something like it will go everywhere).
3. Try to keep min (1.2 ~1.4) m distance between each channel (L side) and same thing for each channel (R side) otherwise you won't get a better separation... all become rujak.
4. Cables and power points

5. Visit few brothers to get inspiration and good inputs.

 :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 08, 2019, 10:59
I prefer layout 2 and move the ceiling speakers to align with the MLP.

which means to shift the wall and still stick with 5.1.2?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 08, 2019, 11:07
Layout 1 but
Top Center and front height
5 floor

5.x.4

means keep original wall (no need to hack and shift), ceiling speakers over MLP, and front elevations. surrounds also use floor? not sure if theres enough space behind the sofa for the floor speakers. intend to get 2.5 seater reclinable sofa. so the little void between sofa and back wall is for the sofa to recline.

I was thinking of using in-wall speakers or on wall speakers to safe space. I can also hide the cables in the false wall.

the RSL w26 seems affordable enough as in-wall speakers for surrounds, but can't seem to find any reviews on them. apparently the specs are similar to the in-ceiling speakers e34c which are quite popular amongst the community.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 08, 2019, 11:26
Looking at your family moving direction...

I opt for layout 3 - wall shifted
(you can spend a little more but you will be happy for a long period. Will your wife have a long face ? coz your master bed room become smaller.

1. You need to consult her first... for smaller wardrobe for her clothes, bags, and shoes  :'(
2. I don't like your subw position there.... SPL will be 'leak' (something like it will go everywhere).
3. Try to keep min (1.2 ~1.4) m distance between each channel (L side) and same thing for each channel (R side) otherwise you won't get a better separation... all become rujak.
4. Cables and power points

5. Visit few brothers to get inspiration and good inputs.

 :)


that main bedroom next to the living room, is for my children. not our master bedroom. master bedroom is at the other side of the flat. see image of full layout:

(https://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/Screenshot%202019-03-08%20at%2011.15.21%20AM.png)

bedroom 3 is my home office/man cave. if there isn't that column between bedroom 3 and living room i would gladly shift that wall. the newer flats have the columns along the exterior walls.

but coming back to your question, no my wife wouldn't mind if i shift that wall as long as i have enough width to put their furniture.

but if what bro Bad English suggested works for my small room setup, no need to hack wall, and can get decent 5.1.4... the money saved from hacking will be used for equipment. Happy camper!

Where would you suggest to put the SW? I have run out of ideas already.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: rayleh on March 08, 2019, 11:28
which means to shift the wall and still stick with 5.1.2?

Between layout 1 and 2, 2 will always be better as you are moving away from the back wall. You go for 5.1.4 if you want to but to me, it is not necessary due to room size.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on March 08, 2019, 18:23

My humble inputs :)

I have a few questions that need advise:
1) Do I have enough space for a 5.1.4 setup?
Yes. And 4 ceiling/height speakers would most likely create a better sound field above MLP as compared to 2 ceiling speakers. Plus since u are doing reno now & going thru major works, better to do it now one shot and lay the cables now as later it be much more inconvenient (& super dirty) to do so. :)

2) if so, should I go for 4 in-ceilings or 4x elevation speakers front and back, or any other recommendations?
You can visit some bros to try out & see what placement sounds best for u. Esp those who have 6-8 height or ceiling speakers. Ask if they can disable/ enable some speakers for u to discern the difference in sound for each pair & compare. IMO, for your listening area size, I think 2x front height/ceil8ng placement and 2x rear ceiling could give u a decent height level immersion

3) are my surrounds too near the seated MLP?
Yes, but seriously, i feel u have not much choice. :) Just live with the physical limitations & place them as far as ur space allows.

4) will the Oberon 5 or 7 be more suited for my room size?
Considering your listening space, be wary of rear ported speakers as they typically need more rear space to 'breathe'. And if you place your rear-ported speakers more forward, it will sacrifice your distance from front speakers to mlp in an already restricted space. If you place it near wall, likely the sound will be very boomy. So maybe on-wall speakers /front ported/ sealed speakers with wider dispersion is a good option.

5) will it be too ambitious to wanna try a 7.1.4?
Likely

I have come up with 2 different layouts, one involves shifting a wall to gain about 40 cm for the living room area. its gonna costs 2.2k, dunno if its worth it.

which do you guys think will be better?

much appreciated any advise forthcoming.

Layout 3 (wall shifted)

More space in a limited space is usually beneficial. Since u doing reno now, if money is not too tight, might as well do it now once and for all. But if saving monies is the consideration, leave the wall there, not critical. Might be good to double-check the angling of the front LR to MLP VS Dolby recommended guidelines if u shift wall.

In short, I would go for:
- sofa to move away from rear wall option (I had the same problem last time & moving it away was a day & night difference to the immersion )
- 4 ceiling/height speakers instead of 2
- sub to be placed nearfield beside sofa - to optimise the tactile impact
- shifting of wall, only if above mentioned works for u

And, I feel the bench beside the window takes away super precious frontal width from your already limited frontal width, which could affect your overall immersion/ sound stage. Is this changeable, or, it's already a fixed furnishing that comes with the purchase of the house? There could be some benefits in optimising that 45cm & place your front speakers further apart.

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on March 08, 2019, 23:33
hi guys thanks for the feedback so far.

I've done some further drawings and layout 1 is based on original living room dimensions and layout 2 based on hacking and shifting the tv wall 40cm farther back.

which one do you guys think work better?

(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/Screenshot%202019-03-07%20at%205.42.45%20PM.png)

I would go with #2 here. See my detailed inputs under qn 2 in my earlier post.

Personally, I would shift the front ATMOS pair to the front height  placement (on your front wall).

But, my caveat will be, to try to hear it for yourself at any bros house (that is calibrated well) who has front Atmos pairs in both top ceiling and front height placement to see which pair creates a better overall immersion for u. Then use a variety of Atmos materials & discern for yourself. :) 

For me, a super kind bro (Jag) helped to demo that pair by pair, and it was super interesting to hear the differences. The observation was the front height placement gave a better sound stage & overall immersion compared to front ceiling, to my ears, using a variety of media that has atmos sounds. After that eventful demo, I decided to have my front Atmos pair at front height placement instead of top ceiling.

But it could sound different for u. Most impt thing is do a AB comparison & discern the differences
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: whitesox on March 09, 2019, 08:41
Bro,
If possible move out the storage bench and place 1 or 2 subws there (front and/or rear side) so you will have wider space for your layout be it for the front (L) towards the front (R). Same thing for all surrounds too...
(Sevenz has a good opinion to consider)
Wider placement is better for better sound stage and better separation.
Perhaps you can put a bookshelf or DVD rack there too and a curtain. DVD/book rack can be acted as diffuser too.

I would rather get better separation rather than too many speakers where is placed too near each other. Placement is very important!
What do you think?

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 10, 2019, 18:33
Bro
Both options are viable, but you may want to let us know what amp are you using?
I'm not sure how well current amps handle varying time delays and how the influence of the rear wall will affect the sound from the top rear position if you go for 5.1.4
(ala option B)

I've come to realise that sometimes less is best, so even though I have 13 channels in my amp and more speakers than that, I won't go nuts and will likely stick to a 7.2.4 setup, maybe with wides if I really go wild.

Each speaker will be influenced by it's surrounding, and there will definitely be boundary effects. Unless you hire a pro or are already a pro like bro Des and Jag, I would keep it simple.
Also, despite our hobbyist inclinations, we have to consider the needs of our family, especially since you aren't using a dedicated room, so allowing for real furniture, people movement, and maybe kids running about is another potential consideration.

Otherwise if you can solve the various issues, I'lll also go for option B. Otherwise, keep it simple and go for option A.
I won't do a Top rear + Front Height hybrid though..

 
hi guys thanks for the feedback so far.

I've done some further drawings and layout 1 is based on original living room dimensions and layout 2 based on hacking and shifting the tv wall 40cm farther back.

which one do you guys think work better?

I think looking at it, I should be sticking with 5.1.2........

(https://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/Screenshot%202019-03-07%20at%205.42.36%20PM.png)

(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz345/strykechng76/Screenshot%202019-03-07%20at%205.42.45%20PM.png)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 13, 2019, 16:21
Thank you everyone here for their generous inputs. Sorry for the radio silence.

Based on the suggestions, I would like to avoid moving the wall althogether if I can help it. That way I can save a couple of thousands and that savings can go to a 2nd  sub. Also I can go for either a Marantz or Denon 9.2 or 11.2 (if doing zone 2 music for dining/kitchen area). But I gathered that I can still go for a 5.1.4 setup provided that I move my sofa away from the wall a little. I reckon that I can move away from the sofa about 0.8 - 1 meter and still have about 2.2m viewing distance from the 65” tv.

I can take away the custom make storage bench if it can give me more width for speakers separation.

Right now doing research on the type of ceiling speakers or elevation speakers for front and back that can look into.

For the front I’m still partial towards floor standers as I also listing to music a lot.
Mi am particularly keen on the Dalis as they are compact and sound quite good. They are wide dispersion so no need to toe in towards MLP hence can save some space too.

The back surrounds can be the on-wall dalis or some affordable in wall with wide dispersion. Same goes for the ceiling speakers. Now the Dali Alteco c-1 are very interesting, it can be mounted as height speakers and for near field listening there is a switch to Point the sound downwards. I wonder if that might work.

Been trying to find more information on the Dali in ceiling speakers but their white paper and manual don’t indicate the dispersion.

Has anyone got experience with the Dali speakers dispersion?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: cajun22 on March 13, 2019, 16:49
Hi Stryke,

I am currently using the Dali Zensor 7 floor standers, Dali Zensor Vokal centre ,Dali Zensor 1 as surround and Pardigm swrvo-15 sub.  You are welcome to come and listen if you are interested. I am running 5.1 and in the process of looking for Atmos speakers as well. PM me if you are keen ya.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on March 13, 2019, 17:12
...
For the front I’m still partial towards floor standers as I also listing to music a lot.
...

I've no idea who told you that statement.

Just a simple fact,  the bigger the speaker,  the bigger the space required to reproduce low frequencies.
The smaller speakers,  i.e. bookshelf , are more easy to control.

DALI floor stander need lot of breathing space , in my experience with Ikon 7 mk2.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 13, 2019, 18:42
I've no idea who told you that statement.

Just a simple fact,  the bigger the speaker,  the bigger the space required to reproduce low frequencies.
The smaller speakers,  i.e. bookshelf , are more easy to control.

DALI floor stander need lot of breathing space , in my experience with Ikon 7 mk2.
+1
The bro's space is small. A smaller bookshelf speaker acting as a point source will be much easier to integrate.
The idea is for an enveloping surround experience, with seamless transition from one speaker to the next.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 13, 2019, 18:57
I've no idea who told you that statement.

Just a simple fact,  the bigger the speaker,  the bigger the space required to reproduce low frequencies.
The smaller speakers,  i.e. bookshelf , are more easy to control.

DALI floor stander need lot of breathing space , in my experience with Ikon 7 mk2.

Thanks for educating me. Wasn’t aware of this. I was quite interested in the Dali Oberon 5 after listening to them. Haven’t heard the bookshelf’s though. I always though that bookshelf speakers need subwoofer to accentuate the Low frequencies. I am currently using Whatfedale diamond 9.5 floor standers and I quite like the lows coming from it.

https://www.dali-speakers.com/loudspeakers/oberon/oberon-5/

Perhaps I should explore bookshelves for the HT and move my floortanders to my man cave next time.
Title: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 13, 2019, 20:27
Thank you everyone here for their generous inputs. Sorry for the radio silence.

Based on the suggestions, I would like to avoid moving the wall althogether if I can help it. That way I can save a couple of thousands and that savings can go to a 2nd  sub. Also I can go for either a Marantz or Denon 9.2 or 11.2 (if doing zone 2 music for dining/kitchen area). But I gathered that I can still go for a 5.1.4 setup provided that I move my sofa away from the wall a little. I reckon that I can move away from the sofa about 0.8 - 1 meter and still have about 2.2m viewing distance from the 65” tv.

I can take away the custom make storage bench if it can give me more width for speakers separation.

Right now doing research on the type of ceiling speakers or elevation speakers for front and back that can look into.

For the front I’m still partial towards floor standers as I also listing to music a lot.
Mi am particularly keen on the Dalis as they are compact and sound quite good. They are wide dispersion so no need to toe in towards MLP hence can save some space too.

The back surrounds can be the on-wall dalis or some affordable in wall with wide dispersion. Same goes for the ceiling speakers. Now the Dali Alteco c-1 are very interesting, it can be mounted as height speakers and for near field listening there is a switch to Point the sound downwards. I wonder if that might work.

Been trying to find more information on the Dali in ceiling speakers but their white paper and manual don’t indicate the dispersion.

Has anyone got experience with the Dali speakers dispersion?

Yes Dali bookshelf speakers have very wide dispersion as I’m using myself in the past. Now I just mounted it as height speakers (but not using it).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 13, 2019, 20:29
Bookshelf speakers will be the best in your home layout as opposed to towers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 13, 2019, 20:56
If going the direction of bookshelf speakers, what kinda size should I be looking at for the Drivers, particularly the woofers? 5, 6, 7”? Whilst the Dali Oberon 1, 5, 7 are getting 5 star reviews, the 3s are not that favoured.

Or should I look at other makes as well?

Edited: started to do my research on smaller speakers. Come across Qacoustics, Mission, Elac debut (which I was contemplating along with Dali and Paradigm Monitor SE) etc.

So do we consider really putting the bookshelf speakers on the tv console or a dedicated stand? If a stand, the footprint and “breathing space”, would it be similar to a compact floor standers?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 13, 2019, 21:12
You can try using all KEF LS50 all round.
Coaxial drivers act as a point source.
Even for your ceiling speakers too :)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: BadEnglish on March 14, 2019, 19:56
If going the direction of bookshelf speakers, what kinda size should I be looking at for the Drivers, particularly the woofers? 5, 6, 7”? Whilst the Dali Oberon 1, 5, 7 are getting 5 star reviews, the 3s are not that favoured.

Or should I look at other makes as well?

Edited: started to do my research on smaller speakers. Come across Qacoustics, Mission, Elac debut (which I was contemplating along with Dali and Paradigm Monitor SE) etc.

So do we consider really putting the bookshelf speakers on the tv console or a dedicated stand? If a stand, the footprint and “breathing space”, would it be similar to a compact floor standers?

Bookshelf speaker doesn't mean to put it on the bookshelf , although the name suggested. It's supposed to be on the stand and to be placed near to the wall to have bass reinforcement.

Footprint and breathing space are two different things. Former just the size while breathing space is surround area that should not have anything ( especially if you are going to listen music ).

You can visit some of the members' places who have bookshelf setup.

Of the hand I can think of is DJQ's. His living room is lot bigger than yours but he is using bookshelf but using big power amps. He lives in Seng Keng so if your place is not far from his, you can try to visit his place.

Addendum
My apology,  DJQ lives in punggol
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: sevenz on March 14, 2019, 20:15
Concur with bros here that floorstanders may not be the best for your space.

And it might not be always true that floorstanders is always better for music. A well built bookshelf speaker e.g. KEF ls50, put on good stands can be quite hard to beat.

Try wide dispersion bookshelves that are sealed or front ported, so that less space needed to avoid rear boom, in your restricted space

I would add KEF into the list.

I would caution against putting your bookshelf speaker on a TV console esp if ur usage is in music too.... it will likely mess up your sound unless u have ways to overcome the issues that come with it.

Put it on a good stand as what badenglish mentioned. This will bring out the best of the speaker. :)

And yes, since window bench is optional, I would really avoid having that. U need as much frontal width as possible in that space. Especially,  if u are putting stands.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on March 17, 2019, 00:37
:)
(work in progress)
(https://scontent.fsin2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54517125_10161510738970427_316340533377105920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fsin2-1.fna&oh=82cbc4a2155cddd04c4bdad0a4de09c1&oe=5D11DF62)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on March 17, 2019, 09:29
:)
(work in progress)
(https://scontent.fsin2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54517125_10161510738970427_316340533377105920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fsin2-1.fna&oh=82cbc4a2155cddd04c4bdad0a4de09c1&oe=5D11DF62)

??? What are you trying to convey here? the "wallpaper" on the ceiling? or are you trying to tell us where you hide the "VOG" ceiling speaker in this picture???

Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: stryke on March 25, 2019, 22:16
Thanks for all the feedbacks and recommendations.

I’ve gone to audition the KEF LS50 and listened to them on stereo for music and 5.1 for movies.

Stereo was good. Bass depth and imaging quite fantastic but the speakers seem to be a tad bright for my liking. Perhaps the demo song was an acoustic guitar piece with vocals only. didn’t hear enough variety of songs to ascertain it’s full range of sounds.

I make continue to explore options for 5.1.4 using bookshelf speakers for the fronts and on wall/in wall for the surrounds.

I understand that my room is too small for much options but I would still like to make the best out of it for a decent 5.1.4 or 5.2.4 setup.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: YANG on April 05, 2019, 10:13
I don't know if you made this too, but I did a blast from the past night recently and put "Backdraft" on my Oppo.
Despite being a 90s disc, there was plenty of ambient effects, and with Neural X, the whole sonic landscape was totally enveloping..

The fire went around and above me, then sucked out through the back only to blow up in my face! Dialogue was clear, and there was dripping water, crackling wood and plenty of Foley effects.
Bass was a tad weak but hey it's the 90s right?

Nice effort ... and a demo worthy disc.
(https://static.afbeeldinguploaden.nl/1903/533064/1zHjzP13.jpg)
Coming MAY... Get the UHD release with DTS:X to "feel the heat" around u @ home.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on April 05, 2019, 11:33
(https://static.afbeeldinguploaden.nl/1903/533064/1zHjzP13.jpg)
Coming MAY... Get the UHD release with DTS:X to "feel the heat" around u @ home.

Classic!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on May 09, 2019, 21:25
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cS3UfvR7oaA/XNQqHAdfNxI/AAAAAAAAD74/kmPijkvt4mMnVc2EQTRev7pytqljJz1ZwCLcBGAs/s320/Atmos%2Bis%2Bin%2Bthe%2Bhouse%2521.jpeg)


Adding a little old school ambience in my den..
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: deadrick on May 12, 2019, 11:26
(http://i64.tinypic.com/5z7o.jpg)
Hello all, like to seek your advice regarding my Top/Height speaker angle and placement.
Placement testing is so difficult for top/height speakers..

Will be a 5.1.4 set up.
Ceiling speaker will be front height and top rear.

Looking at the Dolby 5.1.4 set up, all 4 top speakers seems to be within Front and surround speakers, like if you connect them with lines, its a rectangle inside the front and surround space.

If my Top rear placed at the angle of 125 / 150 degree angle, it will be outside  my surround speakers, not sure is it ideal for top speakers to be outside the main 5 speakers? (i may get a speaker stand to push out the Surround Left further)

I have drawn out 3 different Top Rear speaker placement.
Like to hear what you guys think.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on May 20, 2019, 19:55
I can't really visualise it too well.
But the basic principles and guidelines from Atmos / Dolby and DTS are simply there to help you along.
The angles are guidelines, but as a rule of thumb, the width of the ceiling speakers are around that of your front speakers.
Whether they are wider than your surrounds or vice versa will depend a lot on your room and what you can do.
Those side surrounds are quite close to your ears, but if you can't have them further apart, there's nothing we can recommend since you have no side walls right?
We all live within space constraints and unless you have the space, there's no perfect arrangement.
All the best
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 05, 2019, 20:10
http://www.youtube.com/v/mOR1qlcGdjc&fs=1
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Kith on June 18, 2019, 11:55
hi good morning to all,

may i ask for some advice on my living room layout;

(not sure how to post the photo so put the link here)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2373753615996137&set=a.2373753519329480&type=3

i would like to do 5.1.4

1. where should i be seated? i know the recommended distance but the beam on the ceiling will affect atmos speaker position so where should i sit to enable me to install the atmos speakers easily?
2. where should my rears be positioned?
3. where should my atmos be?
- i cant use upfiring due to the ceiling fan and i cant install false ceiling for ceiling speakers unfortunately

floorstanding and center KEFq600 and 900
surround KEF iq10
atmos - energy take classic


thanks to all for any advice
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: YANG on June 18, 2019, 12:38
(https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64782908_2373753619329470_3018993621153087488_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-sin6-1.xx&oh=4c10bba238e35a53d2b09906f5937a51&oe=5D988C96)
Reminds me of Hougang Ave8 point blocks' hall...
Assuming that u oredi decided on setting up video projection, you need to settle the light that shines in from the study table side.
Sound wise, the wall between the 3 bedroom doors are sweet to fit surround left and right.
Ceiling Atmos speaker take Pete's setup as reference/consideration, "lamp hanging" setup, behind the ceiling pillar seems good!
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on June 18, 2019, 13:13
+1 on hanging some speakers from your ceiling -sdds earth sound has some such speakers.
The final result that you get will depend a lot on your balance of sound vs looks and practicality.
All the best
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Cubacuba on June 18, 2019, 17:48
You can consider Starke Sound Echo for heights.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Hillviewer on August 17, 2019, 14:17
Is it worthwhile to have (purchase or DIY) back boxes for the in-ceiling speakers?
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 14, 2019, 11:54
There has been some chatter that certain discs are actually coded for 7.1.2, so even if one has more speakers, there isn't a lot of spread to the other speakers..
Food for thought and unless one has a really larger room (much larger than the typical HDB / condo flats in SG), you may want to reconsider anything more than 7.1.4 ...
Title: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 17, 2019, 06:36
There has been some chatter that certain discs are actually coded for 7.1.2, so even if one has more speakers, there isn't a lot of spread to the other speakers..
Food for thought and unless one has a really larger room (much larger than the typical HDB / condo flats in SG), you may want to reconsider anything more than 7.1.4 ...

+1. Majority of the Blu-ray discs are encoded with 2 pairs of Object based sound mix in mind. But that is not to say that one day it will change. FWIW unless you have a very big room (hard to find in Singapore) or a big hall, anything > 2 pairs of ceiling speakers is not gonna make a dramatic difference in terms of Atmos effects. For those with a big hall, the benefits of a 7.1.6 will be a more seamless “transition” of the overhead sound mix.

Sometimes less is more. It depends very much on the room dimension. While we can all agreed the benefits of dual/multi subwoofers setup to smooth out the response due to its longer wave lengths (resulted in standing waves), overhead sound is “atmospheric” in nature...so if your existing setup already provides adequate overhead sound then there is really no need for you to squeeze in another pair of ceiling speakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: ronildoq on September 17, 2019, 08:47
+1. Majority of the Blu-ray discs are encoded with 2 pairs of Object based sound mix in mind. But that is not to say that one day it will change. FWIW unless you have a very big room (hard to find in Singapore) or a big hall, anything > 2 pairs of ceiling speakers is not gonna make a dramatic difference in terms of Atmos effects. For those with a big hall, the benefits of a 7.1.6 will be a more seamless “transition” of the overhead sound mix.

Sometimes less is more. It depends very much on the room dimension. While we can all agreed the benefits of dual/multi subwoofers setup to smooth out the response due to its longer wave lengths (resulted in standing waves), overhead sound is “atmospheric” in nature...so if your existing setup already provides adequate overhead sound then there is really no need for you to squeeze in another pair of ceiling speakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1 well said

But the other thing one has to bear in mind is that 9.1.6 is something Dolby has ready, just haven’t released the codes to public. That is why most processors are gearing up for a 9.1.6 configuration

A lot of it also depends on the sound mix, not every Atmos track sounds the same. Enter game of thrones sound mix Engineers and it’s a different Atmos sound track. Throw in the Disney guys, this missing that missing

Remember, we are now dealing with object based audio, meaning specific objects appears from a specific location, it’s no longer channel based. In my opinion, if u are already mounting ceiling speakers, then 6 is the way to go to spread it up, front pair, centre pair and back pair , done and over with, if possible. this will provide a seamless overhead experience, some even Go with voice of god for auro.

4 is definitely a big step up from 2, with 2 ceiling speakers, the separation between front and back will be missing, what then follows is the lost of direction, because everything now comes from that single pair above you. The feeling of missing the segregation between front and back overheads will be felt
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on September 17, 2019, 09:39
With 6 ceiling speakers front, centre and back, you will definitely hear the helicopter and the 747 take off effect better, when properly set-up.
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: wizardofoz on September 17, 2019, 10:15
Interesting thoughts on surround and helicopters


http://www.youtube.com/v/96537vnPJs4&fs=1
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: desray on September 17, 2019, 20:11
+1 well said

But the other thing one has to bear in mind is that 9.1.6 is something Dolby has ready, just haven’t released the codes to public. That is why most processors are gearing up for a 9.1.6 configuration

A lot of it also depends on the sound mix, not every Atmos track sounds the same. Enter game of thrones sound mix Engineers and it’s a different Atmos sound track. Throw in the Disney guys, this missing that missing

Remember, we are now dealing with object based audio, meaning specific objects appears from a specific location, it’s no longer channel based. In my opinion, if u are already mounting ceiling speakers, then 6 is the way to go to spread it up, front pair, centre pair and back pair , done and over with, if possible. this will provide a seamless overhead experience, some even Go with voice of god for auro.

4 is definitely a big step up from 2, with 2 ceiling speakers, the separation between front and back will be missing, what then follows is the lost of direction, because everything now comes from that single pair above you. The feeling of missing the segregation between front and back overheads will be felt

Yes...waiting for content. 9.1.6 is not something new...even the demo disc from Dolby allow users to play test tones for 3 pairs of ceiling speakers but studio still not using it. At this point, it is in matrix format...but definitely something to look forward to. And yes, if you already ceiling mount your speakers, go for 3 pairs whenever there is real estate "above" you...but make sure don't follow blindly by shoehorn all 3 pairs of speakers on top just because you can. It needs proper spacing between each speakers to produce the best Object-based effects. This is where I'm trying to drive across the message to everyone. 
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 17, 2019, 20:52
With 6 ceiling speakers front, centre and back, you will definitely hear the helicopter and the 747 take off effect better, when properly set-up.
Ah bro, here's the point of contention... you don't Need 6 pieces.. the room size matters. Our small rooms may not benefit from so many ceiling speakers. There's interference, and also the loudness issues that confound.
It's known fact now that quite a few mixes are only 7.1.2 for example. So if you add more ceiling speakers, the sound is matrixed into them. There's no transition from Top Front to Middle to Top Rear for example if there's only info for one pair of Top speakers...
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: petetherock on September 17, 2019, 20:53
This may not make everyone happy, but more is not always better ... assess for yourself if it is really what you need rather than what you want ;)
Title: Re: ATMOS / DTS-X and Ceiling mounted speakers discussion thread
Post by: Lam1n1n on September 17, 2019, 22:16
Ah bro, here's the point of contention... you don't Need 6 pieces.. the room size matters. Our small rooms may not benefit from so many ceiling speakers. There's interference, and also the loudness issues that confound.
It's known fact now that quite a few mixes are only 7.1.2 for example. So if you add more ceiling speakers, the sound is matrixed into them. There's no transition from Top Front to Middle to Top Rear for example if there's only info for one pair of Top speakers...

Room size does matter.  Agreed that inteference can be an issue in smaller room.  Some with low ceiling may choose to have two reflection speakers and two ceiling speakers.  Where you have the room size (and height) go for 6 (with space provision for more, if available) in readiness for better material to come.  AVR is getting more channels for a reason.  Also agreed with Desray that spacing of speakers is important even if you can have 6 ceiling speakers.